100 academics opposed to league tables

Written By: - Date published: 11:15 am, July 17th, 2012 - 154 comments
Categories: education, schools - Tags: ,

School league tables are harmful to education. Tables based on “ropey data” are even worse. In this open letter 100 academics speak out against league tables.


We are a group of New Zealand academics teaching and researching in universities. As a group we are very concerned about the proposed publication of ‘league tables’ of primary school performance based on National Standards, whether compiled by media organisations or by Government. We believe that National Standards achievement data and the available school and student level contextualising data are so clearly unsuitable for the purpose of comparing school performance that to purport to do so would be dishonest and irresponsible. We also believe, based on the experience of other countries, that the publication of league tables will be extremely damaging for New Zealand primary education. As academics we will condemn and disregard any published league table of primary school performance and we urge the New Zealand public to do likewise.

Current Signatories (names will continue to be added)

Emeritus Professor Raymond Adams, Massey University

Dr Vivienne Anderson, University of Otago

Judy Bailey, University of Waikato

Associate Professor Miles Barker, University of Waikato

Dr Roseanna Bourke, Victoria University of Wellington

Dr Jenny Boyack, Massey University

Professor Christopher Branson, University of Waikato

Trish Brooking, University of Otago

Associate Professor Gavin Brown, University of Auckland

Dr Mike Brown, University of Waikato

Dr Seth Brown, Massey University

Tracey Carlyon, University of Waikato

Dr Vicki Carpenter, University of Auckland

Professor James Chapman, Massey University

Sue Cheesman, University of Waikato

Jeanette Clarkin-Phillips, University of Waikato

Tracey-Lynne Cody, Massey University

Associate Professor Lindsey Conner, University of Canterbury

Dr Marian Court, Massey University

Dr Hamish Crocket, University of Waikato

Associate Professor Kathie Crocket, University of Waikato

Professor Niki Davis, University of Canterbury

Associate Professor Nesta Devine, AUT University

Dr Vijaya Dharan, Victoria University of Wellington

Dr Helen Dixon, University of Auckland

Judy Duncan, University of Auckland

Emeritus Professor Warwick Elley, University of Canterbury

Fiona Ellis, University of Otago

Dr Brian Finch, Massey University

Dr Katie Fitzpatrick, University of Auckland

Lester Flockton, University of Otago

Dr Margaret Franken, University of Waikato

Dr John Freeman-Moir, University of Canterbury

Associate Professor Alison Gilmore, University of Otago

Dr Barrie Gordon, Victoria University of Wellington

Dr Alexandra Gunn, University of Otago

Maggie Haggerty, Victoria University of Wellington

Tamsin Hanly, University of Auckland

Paul Hansen, Massey University

Dr Sally Hansen, Massey University

Emeritus Professor Richard Harker, Massey University

Dr Penny Haworth, Massey University

Michelle Hesketh, University of Auckland

Paul Heyward, University of Auckland

Associate Professor Mary Hill, University of Auckland

Robert Hoeberigs, University of Auckland

Jodie Hunter, Massey University

Philippa Hunter, University of Waikato

Dr Michael Irwin, Massey University

Jayne Jackson, Massey University

Andrew Jamieson, Massey University

Dr Joce Jesson, University of Auckland

Professor Alison Jones, University of Auckland

Dr Alison Kearney, Massey University

Janette Kelly, University of Waikato

Dr Joanna Kidman, Victoria University of Wellington

Ken Kilpin, Massey University

Judine Ladbrook, University of Auckland

Dr Darrell Latham, University of Otago

Dr Deidre Le Fevre, University of Auckland

Dr Frances Langdon, University of Auckland

Debora Lee, University of Auckland

Associate Professor Kathleen Liberty, University of Canterbury

Dr Kirsten Locke, University of Auckland

Professor Terry Locke, University of Waikato

Dr Judith Loveridge, Victoria University of Wellington

Dr Jude MacArthur, Massey University

Dr Sasha Matthewman, University of Auckland

Professor Helen May, University of Otago

Professor Stephen May, University of Auckland

John McCaffery, University of Auckland

Dr Alyson McGee, Massey University

Dr Mandia Mentis, Massey University

Frauke Meyer, University of Auckland

Louise Milne, University of Waikato

Professor Linda Mitchell, University of Waikato

Associate Professor Missy Morton, University of Canterbury

Associate Professor Carol Mutch, University of Auckland

Dr Karen Nairn, University of Otago

Wendy Neilson, University of Waikato

Associate Professor Peter O’Connor, University of Auckland

Anne-Marie O’Neill, Massey University

Professor John O’Neill, Massey University

Dr Kirsten Petrie, University of Waikato

Dr Peter Rawlins, Massey University

Dr Karen Rhodes, Massey University

Associate Professor Tracy Riley, Massey University

Professor Peter Roberts, University of Canterbury

Nigel Robertson, University of Waikato

Dr Susan Sandretto, University of Otago

Alan Scott, University of Canterbury

Cathy Short, University of Waikato

Associate Professor Mary Simpson, University of Otago

Anne Sinclair, University of Auckland

Dr David Small, University of Canterbury

Jill Stephenson, University of Auckland

Gary Tenbeth, University of Auckland

Dr Kate Thornton, Victoria University of Wellington

Professor Martin Thrupp, University of Waikato

Dr Trevor Thwaites, University of Auckland

Lynley Tulloch, University of Waikato

Distinguished Professor William Tunmer, Massey University

Dr Bill Ussher, University of Waikato

Dr Jannie van Hees, University of Auckland

Professor Margaret Walshaw, Massey University

Dr Kama Weir, Massey University

Dr Bronwyn Wood, Victoria University of Wellington

[See original for further notes and details.]

154 comments on “100 academics opposed to league tables ”

  1. National Standards are seriously flawed and their inconsistent unmoderated nature means there will be no value in their collective data and for the Government to endorse a league table based on them would be unethical and dishonest. Judging by the government’s performance generally, perhaps honesty and ethics are not regarded as criteria important enough to reverse their decision.
    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/07/implementing-league-tables-dishonest.html

  2. Dr Terry 2

    They are welcome to my name! The problem is the grave suspicion of academics in this country, plus government abhorrence. (How often do we hear people throwing off at “egg-heads”? This is not so in all countries).If people wanted “intelligence” many more would be voting for the Greens.

  3. captain hook 3

    how dare they say that?
    we paid good money to a right wing think tank to substantiate our claims and allow us to wreck the education system.
    and now people who ekshally know what they are talking about are refuting it,.
    what would they know?

  4. Dv 4

    Spalling hook edukashun

  5. Colonial Viper 5

    Very proud of these NZ acaedmics. Just awesome. What we need, as opposed to the tame intellectuals we have in too many corners of the system.

  6. Dv 6

    Heard Parata (reported) as saying there needs to be an INFORMED discussion.
    Huh

    Plenty of information about standards.

    BUT YOU need to listen.

    • grumpy 6.1

      ….let’s just get this straight……..

      The Government responds to pressure from parents to give them information on the performance of the schools they sent their children to and pay for with their hard earned taxpayers dollars.

      The teachers at those schools (not all of them but mainly those from poor performing ones) object furiously to the introduction of National Standards.

      The Government, having been returned to power with a mandate, again listens to parents and (like Labour in Australia), moves to introduce “League Tables”.

      Teachers and their Unions furiously oppose parents rights to information.

      Now, the academics who teach the teachers in the poor performing schools where significant numbers of students leave without learning to read, write of make simple mathematical calculations, object furiously to parents finding out just how crap some schools are and by association how crap teacher training is.

      …and we should be surprised??????

      • Kotahi Tane Huna 6.1.1

        “Responds to pressure from parents…”

        Bullshit – what pressure?

        Sixth in the world currently. You are so full of drivel.

        • grumpy 6.1.1.1

          “sixth” in what exactly???

          Our level of underachievement is huge. On the disparity of education we are pitiful. ….but the crap teachers, their unions and the clowns that trained them don’t want you to know that.

          If we are “sixth”, then how come 1 in 5 leave school unable to read and write andv perform simple mathematical tasks.

          Parents want better for their children than your lame excuses.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.1.1

            If we are “sixth”, then how come 1 in 5 leave school unable to read and write andv perform simple mathematical tasks.

            Prove it. Show that you’re not just some dumbfuck that’s parroting Nationals lies.

            • Kotahi Tane Huna 6.1.1.1.1.1

              You are right Draco – come on Grumps – but I warn you this one in five lie is another zombie – let’s see your sources. Put up or shut up.

              • Populuxe1

                CIA Worldbook still lists us at 99% literacy, which while much lower than I’d like and lower than what is possible, still puts us equal with the US, the UK, Germany, France, Switzerland and Sweden. And much of that could be corrected by throwing more money at learning disabilities and fostering a more positive educational culture in some economically disadvantaged communities.

          • s y d 6.1.1.1.2

             

            86% percent achieved NCEA Level 1 literacy and numeracy in 2010

            mate, probably 1 in 5 parents left school unable to read and write. After all 50% of kids are below average intelligence, which is never going to change no matter how many charter schools we have.
            stop blaming teachers…we are not all the same, we cannot all be geniuses, but things have been on the improve…
            http://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/indicators/main/education-and-learning-outcomes/28788

          • Georgecom 6.1.1.1.3

            Grumpy. NZ does considerably better than most other education systems. Yes we do have levels of underachievement. So do countries like Australia, the US and Britain. These countries all have tried aspects of national testing and league tables. Any difference to their rate of underachievement?

            So tell me, if it failed to make an impact in those countries, how will it make a difference here?

            And no, because Tolley or Parata said so isn’t acceptable. I want you to explain it clearly from your own mind, not parroting something the Minister of education has trotted out.

        • Rob 6.1.1.2

          and you KTH cannot engage in a normal debate without becoming emotional and personal.

          • grumpy 6.1.1.2.1

            ……probably a teacher……

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 6.1.1.2.2

            Fucking cry baby. You, Rob, cannot engage in a discussion about our childrens’ education without regurgitating mindless gobshite and demonstrating complete ignorance of the topic. And you probably even vote accordingly. The lies you sponge up harm New Zealand education, which if Grumps here was a bit more informed he might have twigged the OECD ranks (currently) as sixth best, according to our PISA scores.

            So, I don’t feel inclined to be polite to you. Sob.

            And what a fool you are Grumps, if you think my abrasive manner would last two minutes in a classroom. It schools you pretty well but.

            • Rob 6.1.1.2.2.1

              I dont think your abusive manner would work anywhere except in this place, where it seems to be regarded quite highly, thats probably a left thing. Lets face it, you really are just soft & shouty.

              • Kotahi Tane Huna

                Squidgey too. I just don’t tolerate zombie arguments that well.

                • grumpy

                  heh, “zombie arguments”…. you mean resorting to abuse instead of confronting the issue eh?

                  So why should we be surprised that 100 of the creators of the predicament object to their employers and customers being able to scruitinise the fruits of their endeavours?

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    deleted – misread Grumps’ comment.

                    • grumpy

                      Certainly “wingnuts” make the best teachers. If she was extolling the virtues of National Standards she is obviously comfortable with her ability and any examination of her performance – in stark contrast to the 100 perpetrators of the situation requiring the need for National Standards trying to keep their performance secret.

                      Thanks for proving my point.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Grumps, you haven’t actually twigged as to the reasons the best teachers are disadvantaged by National’s Standards, have you?

                    • grumpy

                      Come on, it was a great comment – put it back!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Have you twigged yet? Would you like a clue?

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    And no, Grumps, a zombie argument is one which keeps on moaning and shuffling long after it’s been thoroughly killed.

                    • grumpy

                      OK, so teacher’s unions and “academics” whining about National Standards and league tables that are already introduced by Labour in Australia and by National in NZ (where we are about to have league tables as well), are indulging in “zombie” arguments?

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Nope. The zombie argument is that education standards will rise, when they fell when “National Standards” (which are neither) and league tables were introduced everywhere else in the world that was duped into introducing them. New Zealand will be no different.

                      Aussie are far behind us on PISA scores. Why are you setting the benchmark so low?

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2

        Teachers and their Unions furiously oppose parents rights to information.

        That’s an outright lie. The teachers and unions have always been in favour of giving the parents the information that they need and that information has always been available. What they’re against is misleading information such as league tables and National Standards.

        Now, the academics who teach the teachers in the poor performing schools…

        You mean the poor performing schools that has NZ education in the top 5 globally?

        Yeah, just another RWNJ who has NFI WTF he’s talking about.

        • grumpy 6.1.2.1

          So they just don’t like information that’s comparative?

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 6.1.2.1.1

            Show me some. NS are neither national nor standard. Would you like another clue?

          • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2.1.2

            I suggest you go back to school as your reading comprehension skills are lacking.

      • Georgy 6.1.3

        Grumpy – do you actually know what national standards and league tables actually are? Your ramblings clearly show you have absolutely no idea!! Why dont you do some homework before you rant and rave

      • Georgecom 6.1.4

        So lets get this straight Grumpy

        Many good teachers and principals from good schools think the National Standards are flawed. They have voiced their professional opinions.

        Many parents voice their concerns about the Standards.

        Despite all the concerns raised by people who know what they are talking about, the Government plows ahead with these flawed standards. They then promote league tables, based on the flawed standards.

        Teachers and their unions continue to raise a number of concerns, including parents right to quality and informed information.

        Now a number of respected and knowledgable academics riase their concerns. The academics who train the quality teachers who work in the well performing schools.

        And you are not surprised about the governments myopia?

  7. Rob 7

    You know, Grupy’s point is the point that a lot of parents feel about this issue. In the paragraph there is a lot of metion of the damaging nature of this tables, but where is the reason for why it is damaging to education or whatever the threat is.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 7.1

      Can you read? You see the word “harmful” in blue in the post? That’s called a link – try clicking on it (with your mouse) and see what happens, but perhaps you’d better sit down first.

      • Rob 7.1.1

        So what they are saying is that they are concerened that the low performing schools will be come marginalised , is that it. Well maybe if they are not performing then they should come in to some form of scrutiny.

        By the way I can read and I was referring to the ‘Group of Educationalists” paragraph. It may help if they actually list their concerns in plain english and then throw in all the emotive elements.

        • grumpy 7.1.1.1

          By “marginalised” they are just using the school and it’s children as a shield to their incompetent professional exposure.

          These are the clowns who are even more responsible than crap teachers. They are the “experts” who gave us the system we have today and trained the incompetents who further stuffed the system.

          Don’t want to be exposed – who would have thought???????

        • framu 7.1.1.2

          all schools are already scrutinised – all the time. All without national standards and league tables

          National standards and league tables will only give simplistic, non standardised and highly misleading impressions about the state of a school and its ability to teach its students – because it only looks at a narrow range of factors – without even benchmarking them to the same standard

          but follow the marginalised idea further – whats happens to a school that is perceived to be failing its students?

          its role drops, its funding diminishes, it finds it harder to keep good staff etc etc

          then what happens to the students who are unable to get to a different school due to issues of transport, location etc etc?

          then what happens to the surrounding community as people move away for good to get their kids nearing to a school they perceive to be better?

          and on it goes

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 7.1.1.2.1

            “all schools are already scrutinised – all the time”

            By the Education Review Office, hence “ERO” reports. Why are wingnuts always so clueless about the basic facts on any given topic?

            • grumpy 7.1.1.2.1.1

              …..Well, gosh, gee, I suppose parents just want to be part of that too…..you know, for their kid’s education….?

              Probably over your head anyway, just one of those who believe that parents have no rights and “the state will decide” – eh?

              • Kotahi Tane Huna

                What colour is the sky on your planet? On Earth, in New Zealand, ERO reports are made public. That is how an informed parent chooses a school. Please tell me you don’t have school age children.

                • grumpy

                  see Rob’s reply below.

                  • Georgecom

                    Grumpy, why not actually answer the question yourself.

                    ERO review schools, they make their reports public. Parents have full freedom to visit a school, talk to the Principal, talk to Board members, have a look round the school, get a prospectus.

                    Explain to me how that process locks parents out of making an informed decision regarding their childs education?

                • Rob

                  Yes I do have 2 children at school currently, what about you KTH.

                  One real life incidence was with my oldest. The the quality of basic maths taught at school in year 5 and 6 was an absolute shambles and it all got tragically found out when 2 years of children moved on to year 7 at different schools. All these kids fell way down on stanine scores , well below average national standard. The teacher eventually left and the board got completely focussed on protecting the schools reputation, driven by all these PR concerns that seems to be driving a lot of the educationalists arguments here. The disapointing aspect is that the teacher ended up at another local school down the road teaching the same old dodgy maths. So nothing changed and nothing was learnt.

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    “Way below average National Standard” – lol there is no such thing, because for the nth time they are neither national nor standard. What part of that are you having trouble with? Are you sure your children’s learning difficulties aren’t genetic?

                  • Descendant Of Smith

                    Fuck – the PR protectionism is driven by a right wing model of competition and the wasted productivity in the education sector on marketing and my school is better than your school bullshit.

                    How you can remotely link that to any sort of left wing ideology is beyond me.

                    League tables will encourage schools to hide those things even more.

                    A table showing spend per student might be useful to see what it costs for some of the private schools to get mediocre outcomes but of course we won’t get to see the results for private schools will we cause they don’t have to do them.

            • Rob 7.1.1.2.1.2

              Well an ERO report gives a view on a single school, it seems the only comparitive measure in the report is the decile mark, which is not a great indication of performance. What people are wanting to understand is how does the school measure comparitively against the other school choices in the area that are available.

              • framu

                ” it seems the only comparitive measure in the report is the decile mark, which is not a great indication of performance”

                its not going to tell you much about the schools performance as its an indication of socio-economic levels of the surrounding community – not how well the school is doing

                • Rob

                  Exactly the point, without any comparitive measures , deciles are what is being considered.

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    The solution is to abolish decile ratings, not add more meaningless noise.

                    • Grumpy

                      I agree with your point about abolishing decile rankings.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Like too many parents you guys seem to think that the decile rating system is a rating system of the school’s educational performance. IT IS NOT.

                      Please try and learn about something a little before deciding “get rid of it”.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Akshully CV that’s one of the reasons I’d get rid of them – by which I guess I mean get them out of the public domain.

                  • framu

                    so why go for a narrowly defined set of parameters that arent even the same across the country?

              • mike e

                Rob the ERO doen’t set the decile of the school stats NZ grades the school by the incomes of those in the area where the schools pupil catchment.

          • grumpy 7.1.1.2.2

            If the school community allow their school to get into that situation, it is better to close as it is only harming those who are entrusted to it.

            • framu 7.1.1.2.2.1

              what situation? the one where its seen as not doing well based on misleading information??

              • grumpy

                No, where it’s seen not to be doing well on results!

                • Kotahi Tane Huna

                  Results, like PISA scores for example?

                  • Rob

                    Oh great, my kid can’t read and add , however I am being told that he is in an education system evidently smarter than Turkey. Great now I am really reassured, good job chaps.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Do you have something against Turks? No matter. I think you are lying about having an illiterate, innumerate “kid”, but what does your personal tragedy (sob) have to do with the wider issue?

                      Is your child typical? How would you know? Where are your facts? Is there any basis for your notions other than stupidity, prejudice and ignorance? If so, where is it?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Oh great, my kid can’t read and add , however I am being told that he is in an education system evidently smarter than Turkey. Great now I am really reassured, good job chaps.

                      Take some personal responsibility as a parent then mate and don’t put it all on the school.

      • Mark 7.1.2

        Oh, a link to a NZ Herald article, top notch journalism quoting a tame left state funded “academic”
        Scientific.. yeah right.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 7.1.2.1

          And the basis for your opinion is what? So far you’ve displayed nothing but ignorance and zombie rhetoric.

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.2.2

          Hey Mark, as KTH mentions, how about doing a critique of the rationale instead of slamming the person?

          Because funnily enough, with your anti-education bent, you’ll quickly dismiss all university staff as being tame, lefty and state funded. And who does that leave you getting your opinions from? The NBR?

          Dork.

  8. Mark 8

    “but follow the marginalised idea further – whats happens to a school that is perceived to be failing its students?”

    I think the idea is that those schools will be given greater support.. teachers will be financially incentivised to lift the students’ results, parents will be given greater support to assist with this.
    But we wouldn’t want that would we.. the left have a vested interest in keeping people ignorant.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.1

      Wilfully idiotic is your signature MO, I take it.

      “The left” is the reason the children of poor parents get an education at all, and your lies are exposed by the real world effects of the policies you have been duped into supporting.

      None of the lies you just told about “schools will be”, and “teachers will be” ever actually happen in your awful right-wing dystopia. Are you deceitful or deceived?

      • Mark 8.1.1

        The planet, or particularly NZ, has moved on from the industrial revolution KTH, and although your point may have been valid many years ago, it is no longer relevant.
        What is your opposition to performance pay for teachers.. is it that it can’t be measured? Well, I suspect with a formula encompassing Decile Level, National Standard,s League Tables etc it is not that hard.
        Decile funding proves that “schools will be” – at least I guess in your utopia where everything can be fixed by throwing tax money at it.
        You should be grateful that private schools exist where parents pick up the major chunk of the cost of their childrens education, leaving more funds for the not- as- well- off.
        Do you have any solutions that don’t involve taxing the “rich” more, to give no strings attached handouts to everyone else?

        • framu 8.1.1.1

          “What is your opposition to performance pay for teachers”

          you do realise that this already happens?

          • Mark 8.1.1.1.1

            No, where?
            But what is the opposition to it?

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Following the lead of the US education system is a fail. The fact that you want to push us down that road is a fail.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.1.1.2

          You see that there, Mark? The bit where Framu pointed out to you that performance pay already happens?

          Why are wingnuts never well informed? Come on – explain yourself!

          PS: “Solution” to what, fool? The fact that our schools perform so well as measured against other countries in the OECD? Link to your supporting material or piss off.

          • Mark 8.1.1.2.1

            How about you answer some of the questions.. fool..
            Why are you against performance pay for teachers?
            What solutions apart from more tax?
            You are very good at throwing insults, on every thread, but no answers to pertinent questions, ever..
            The local bully boy?

            • Kotahi Tane Huna 8.1.1.2.1.1

              “Against performance pay” – I’m not – it already happens.

              Solutions to what? The pain in your mind? I’d suggest glad wrap.

              Stop whining about being treated like a clueless wingnut and justify your assertions with some supporting material.

              • Rob

                OK KTH, explain to us all about how performance pay occurs in a school environment.

                This will be good……..

                • Kotahi Tane Huna

                  It was Framu’s assertion, one which I know to be true. Why don’t you have a wee peek at the Ministry of Education’s website, perhaps do a search for “evaluation” or “assessment” – y’know, just like someone who was genuinely trying to find something out for themselves?

                  • Rob

                    As expected , nothing. Limp and soft and all shout and noise.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Oh for fucks sake. Do you people need your hand held for everything? Jesus wept.

                      Teacher appraisal – current practices.

                    • McFlock

                      Funnily enough, I did the recommended googling for you. Talk about spoon-feeding vs mind-reading. 

                           
                      Anyway, their performance does indeed affect the pay of teachers. It’s just not based on ill-considered, arbitrary, inflexible, counter-productive, idiotic and bureaucratic ‘National Standards’.
                           
                      I am sure your acceptance of this fact will be prompt, elegant and in warm spirit. /sarc.

                    • Rob

                      OK KTH

                      I went to your link and had a skim read, I then searched the doc for renumeration , pay scales, performance etc and there was nothing.

                      Anyway I was just interested in how teachers were paid. I still cannot see any evidence that there is any performance pay.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Rob, don’t worry about it – there are a lot of big words like “attestation against the professional standards for salary progression;” but McFlock’s link makes it even clearer.

                    • McFlock

                      Rob, do you need help finding your dick when you need to take a piss?

                  • Dv

                    Rob
                    From the first page of the doc.
                    “progression based on performance”

                    • Rob

                      Why McFlunk, are you offering to find it.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Not very gracious in total defeat are you Rob? Still, at least you will no longer repeat the lie that teachers are not paid according to performance, will you?

                      Of course you will – you’ll perhaps feel some sort of emotion while you’re lying through your teeth, but it won’t stop you, will it?

                      Have I judged you unfairly?

                    • McFlock

                      I don’t do nanotechnology.

        • Descendant Of Smith 8.1.1.3

          We shouldn’t be grateful at all. It was only ever intended that public finding went into public schools. Private schools and those parents who send their kids there have simultaneously argued for less taxation and for private access to public funding. That’s hardly a reason to be grateful.

          Religious schools should doubly not get state funding which perversely is increasing as religious participation is falling.

          • Populuxe1 8.1.1.3.1

            Religious schools should doubly not get state funding which perversely is increasing as religious participation is falling.

            Why? Don’t religious people pay tax? Does religious affiliation automatically mean you go to church? Are you making assumptions about what and how religious school’s teach?
            Religious schools frequently offer kids from economically disadvantaged families the sort of benefits otherwise only found in private schools – which I think is quite important as National seems determined to sabotage our state schools.

            • Descendant Of Smith 8.1.1.3.1.1

              Religious schools are private schools and the separation of religion and state principle should still apply as it used to. Most religions have tax free status and used to fund their own schools.

              It’s in more recent times they have had access to state funding.

              • Populuxe1

                Religious schools are not private schools in the conventional sense as they cater to a far broader range of socioeconomic backgrounds and have for some time been obliged to take non-religiously affiliated students who are also exempt from religious instruction (although I personally have found that the knowledge of the Bible and the study of comparative religions I picked up at school has always come in handy).
                I agree that churches shouldn’t be tax exempt – those there arguments to be made for those in possession of high maintenance heritage buildings and those genuinely providing charitable services.
                Schools for the deaf – where deafness is treated as a culture – get state funding, why not schools with people of a supernatural worldview?

              • Descendant Of Smith

                1975 when catholic schools were struggling for funding they lobbied and and got access to government funding. They have never relinquished their charitable status.

                • Populuxe1

                  Probably because they haven’t relinquished their charitable work.

                  • Populuxe1

                    I’s also point out that Metro‘s “Best Schools” issue this year indicated that the best performing schools in the lowest decile areas were Catholic.

                    • Descendant Of Smith

                      Depends what you are measuring doesn’t it. Truth takes a backward step for faith.

                      Public education should be secular as should the rest of the public service.

                      Reminder too that the Catholic church set up a network of private schools precisely because public schools were secular.

                      Tell me if public schools are to be religous which religion should they be?

                    • Populuxe1

                      I’m an atheist (but apparently not prejudiced). I went to a Vatican II (liberal) primary and secondary. Science teaching was straight up secular – big bang and evolution. The only weak points were sex ed, which we got the basics of, no contraception, but I personally think parents should be more involved there.
                      I don’t think public schools need to be religious, but some comparative understanding of the main religions in social studies would be more of a help than a hindrance – we live in a multicultural society after all.

                    • Descendant Of Smith

                      I don’t mind a social study historical approach to learning about religion either and in particular the development of an understanding of religous tolerance. That however is quite different from a specific religous school based on any religion.

                    • mike e

                      pop they are probably cooking the figures or get better children poorer families cannot afford uniforms either .
                      In my area the coed public high school performs better much better in fact than all the other schools including the very expensive private schools considering the private schools get so cold better teachers with better ratios and the cream of the crop children from wealthy well educated families the only advantage they get is snobbery and the old boys girls network.
                      1/2 truths and here say = popuganda1

    • framu 8.2

      “the left have a vested interest in keeping people ignorant.”

      oh well done – youve made an insult – you get a gold star 🙂

      • Mark 8.2.1

        That’s no insult, it is a fairly obvious truth to those that have experienced life from all sides of the spectrum, and are able to see through the bullshit, and call those from either side who spout it.
        (-:

        • framu 8.2.1.1

          no mark – its bullshit plain and simple to claim that the left want to keep people ignorant.

          just like saying the greens are all communists

          or that maori are all lazy bludgers

          or that right wingers are all out to eat babies

          its all bullshit

          all youve achieved is to loudly proclaim that your off in the corner with the kids who wear the pointy hat

        • Populuxe1 8.2.1.2

          I love the small of Ad Hominem in the morning. It smells like victory.

    • mike e 8.3

      mark of ignorance
      Another poodle of the right.

      • Mark 8.3.1

        Nobody’s poodle.. mike e you lapdog..
        Just browsing for some intellectual stimulation and reasoned argument/debate..
        Nothing to see here, I’ll move along to .. youtube? whoar?..
        Lol

        • Colonial Viper 8.3.1.1

          Just browsing for some intellectual stimulation and reasoned argument/debate..

          I thought you were just browsing to troll. It so hard to tell the difference with you.

  9. Colonial Viper 9

    At the end of the day all the Right Wing are interested in are dumbing down children mass education while privileged kids get even more resources, dissing frontline teaching and admin staff who know what they are doing, and privatising education income streams.

  10. fabregas4 10

    I’m sick of idiots thinking that deciles are anything at all to do with school quality – they are and always have been a funding mechanism. Quite simply anyone who thinks or believes otherwise is ignorant about education and shouldn’t comment here until they become more informed.

    • higherstandard 10.1

      Fair call.

    • Mark 10.2

      Exactly, precisely.. which is why we need more information. National Standards and League Tables.. and the only ones scared of them are bad teachers, bad teachers of teachers, and the ones who couldn’t even make it as teachers, the Teachers Union officials.
      As parents and taxpayers, we are both the employers and customers of teachers, and we have a right to know if they are any good.
      If they need support, we will support them, if they need discipline, we have the right to expect they will be. If they should be doing some other job, we have the right to expect that as well.
      The real world, that our kids will grow up in, and need to be prepared for.

      • Kotahi Tane Huna 10.2.1

        “The real world” – the one you know so little about? Especially when it comes to the part pertaining to education in NZ?

        • Mark 10.2.1.1

          Dunno really.. I was educated here, my kids are educated here, I’ve done a fair bit of vocational educating myself..
          One of my best mates is an educator of many years standing, I debate (argue like fuck actually) with him.. he states that because he is/has been a teacher that he performs some social service.. more than anyone else. (he now works for a private provider) He votes Green/Labour, spouts about his green/social cred as well.. exploits every tax loophole available (Trusts, LAQC’s) is a slum landlord (preferring Beneficiary tenants) and buys the latest iPad, xBox.. whenever available.
          Maybe I’m hypersensitive to leftie hypocrites.

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 10.2.1.1.1

            I don’t care about your character assassination of your friend.

          • Populuxe1 10.2.1.1.2

            Well that’s a classy way to talk about one of your “best mates” – shame on him for providing affordable accommodation and daring to treat himself!

      • Dv 10.2.2

        One of main arguments about Nat Stds, is they are Neither National nor are they standard.
        There is no effective moderation, so you can compare data across, pupils, time and schools.

        Teachers etc are worried about being judged by inacurate, ropey data that is near to meaningless.

        And the pass at L1 literacy is 87%. That is not 80%

        The other point i would make about those who are complaining about poor teachers, is WHO do you think are doing the evaluations of the nat stds? It is those teachers you think are so poor.

        I agree with Parata who said today there needs to be sensible debate.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.2.3

        All the information needed is already available. If people are complaining about the lack then it’s most likely that they haven’t actually engaged either their school or their children and are thus a failure as parents.

      • fabregas4 10.2.4

        I was a bloody fantastic teacher and am now a highly regarded principal. I am not scared of National Standards nor league tables. Not for me. But I know that they will do little good and will have a high chance of doing bad things for children, schools, and indeed our education system. 100 of our top education academics agree with this stand, a very large percentage of Principals do too. Most teachers do as well.

        If you want to know about your school – go visit it, get involved. Read the ERO report. Ask your neighbours but don’t mess the system just because you want some poorly constructed crap to tell you something that it doesn’t have the capacity to do and that the experts are clearly advising will only damage children.

  11. s y d 11

    Mark, just for you and the royal we….bring on the teacher discipline
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRv9wGf5pk&feature=related

  12. mike e 12

    Mark more redneck ranting
    Under labour our education system went from 14th in the OECD to 4th!
    No wonder our country is going backwards under Nactional.
    They can’t even do simple maths

  13. Mark 13

    From http://www.ssc.govt.nz/sites/all/files/pif-moe-review-june2011.PDF

    “The results of New Zealand education for most students compare well against those for other OECD
    countries, although New Zealand stands out as having a longer tail of low achievement. Those from
    low income households, including from Māori and Pasifika households, remain disproportionately
    represented in this group”

    So it is this group, that then becomes disproportionately represented in later crime statistics, welfare dependency etc that we need to help.
    There are however, many from this group that do very well, and any means that we can use to identify why/how etc will help to increase the general results.
    One of the methods that MUST be worth trying is educational/school/teacher performance, along with healthy homes, WFF, blah blah.
    So why are we not prepared to explore every method and option. We know that throwing more money at Welfare, Justice and Corrections does not work.
    Despite the opinions of most here, I am pretty sure that the dreaded RWNJ’s from JK down, want to see a society where everyone succeeds, and I doubt that most taxpayers would resent paying a little more if it was shown to have measurable effects.. but we need the measurement from somewhere.
    FFS, these 100 apparently intelligent people need to put up, or shut up.
    So do their supporters.

    • McFlock 13.1

      Seriously?
             
      You want to run a mandatory cohort study involving every single child in the country, including research access to individual criminal and health records? 
      Good luck with the ethics approval on that. 
           
       When you want to enter the real world, knock three times…

      • Mark 13.1.1

        McFluck
        No, we don’t need to study every child.. just the ones that (we?) are failing.
        Where you got the rest of your fantasy escapes me.. maybe I need to refresh more often.
        I am sure there must be some reasoned debate in here.. hard to find tho..

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 13.1.1.1

          That you do not understand McFlock’s point, and why it is relevant to your comment, is a reflection on your intellect, or perhaps your unwillingness to apply it. Have a wee think about it and see if the penny drops.

        • McFlock 13.1.1.2

          How would you know which ones fail and which ones don’t?
          How would you know that “educated” people don’t end up in jail too?
          How would you know that “educated” people don’t end up in hospital for the same or even more serious conditions than “poorly educated”?
             
          You would need to compare lifestyle factors between successful people and those cast aside by society. Lifestyle factors in addition to the national standards and deprivation catchment which would be on their minEd data. Police records. CYF/W&I. MinHealth NMDS admissions. Mental health records. Otherwise you’re just comparing the blunt instrument of national standards with the blunt instrument of national standards.
               
          And you don’t know which pupils would be successful vs the others. So you’d need to get this lifestyle data from all of them.
               
          Like I say,  your pithy little line “There are however, many from this group that do very well, and any means that we can use to identify why/how etc will help to increase the general results.” actually hides a multimillion dollar study with zero chance of ethics approval, and that’s even before you target it along the lines of ethnicity.
                 
          You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.  

    • mike e 13.2

      Mark no doubt you supported boot camps as well they were highly successful costing millions
      Creating one that is one good outcome after 3 years just to prove all the overseas research was right
      Boot camps acshually have a negative outcome!
      But it sucked all the rednecks in and they acshually voted nashonil!

    • Draco T Bastard 13.3

      FFS, these 100 apparently intelligent people need to put up, or shut up.

      They have. Studies showing the failure of the system you want abound. Everywhere it’s been put in place it’s failed.

  14. Mark 14

    Oh KTH, on some threads you seem to have some knowledge, or even intellect..
    More often, sadly, it seems a case of parroting what you think sounds right..
    Proof that league tables or rigorous teacher appraisal in your educational history would be most enlightening.
    But enlighten me (for once) on your understanding of the comment and response.. go on.. bully boy..

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 14.1

      Oh come on, it’s simple – the data you are proposing we gather would take the sort of study that McFlock illustrates.

      To make matters worse, it would be money down the toilet because we know what the problem is and we have some ideas about the solutions. As discussed in this forum on many occasions.

      • Mark 14.1.1

        No, the data we want and need right now is League Tables, which when used with Decile Levels, and National Standards, will enable us to effectively target the areas that need improvement, and improve them.
        Your links are not only crap leftie bullshit, they demonstrate your lack of ability to think for yourself.
        Further evidenced by your running away and resorting to insult when owned.
        Come on, show us what you got..

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 14.1.1.1

          “Owned” lol

          If any of the above were true, why have education standards fallen so markedly in the UK and USA?

          You still haven’t articulated what you even think the problem is – and you have nothing to even back it up when you do.

          How do you know, Mark, that one in five are illiterate and innumerate? Hint – they aren’t – the figure is bullshit – but where did you get it from? Have you been spoon-fed or did you check? Since I have a new owner I want make sure he’s house-trained.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 14.1.1.2

          PS: “Crap lefty bullshit” is such a strong argument – especially when combined with nothing whatsoever to even attempt to address the points it raises. No wonder they say stupidity is a gateway to conservatism.

        • Descendant Of Smith 14.1.1.3

          But we already know from existing data which students are failing and which schools are having difficulty. We could now, without national standards put more teachers, more social workers, better after school care, more sports support, etc into those schools. We could look at the ERO reports and put support in to address those issues. We could understand whether that school has a significant number of kids with disabilities, alcohol foetal syndrome, lack of parental support, English as a second language students, etc.

          Tables tell us none of those things and simply gives a not very accurate output measure which can be skewed by a hundred things.

          The days when you measured kids at entry level as to whether they could tie their shoelaces and say the alphabet when they started school without considering that the parents were poor and the kid only got their first pair of shoes some how the day before and the parents were illiterate hence the problems with the alphabet resulted in much damage, including kids being institutionalised were a good example of national standardisation having bad results across many OECD countries.

          And if the intent is really to provide more support why are we publishing the tables. We could just take the info and put in the support. We could give every parent the confidence that if any school their children went to had performance issues that supports would be in place and issues addressed.
          .

        • prism 14.1.1.4

          Mark

          No, the data we want and need right now is League Tables, which when used with Decile Levels, and National Standards, will enable us to effectively target the areas that need improvement, and improve them.

          Very funny parody. You have covered all the amusing rubbishy incorrect spiel that is coming from certain proportion of the public, the half-educated, who have reached the highest level of their understanding and are dangling at that point, fixed by the Peter Principle.

      • Mark 14.1.2

        Fuck, if you think that graph proves your point… you need a bit more education. luckily we will have some Charter Schools soon, although even they might struggle.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 14.1.2.1

          Proves what? It demonstrates a strong relationship between levels of equality and education outcomes – one that is borne out by plenty of studies – and your source is what? A big bag of air.

        • Draco T Bastard 14.1.2.2

          Charter schools are, on average, worse than state schools that means that having them will be worse for our children.

        • mike e 14.1.2.3

          Charter schools only take children who doe well anyway and get rid of children who do not perform. to make themselves look good’
          They have a very high teacher turn over because of the way their run. No evidence they are cheaper in fact the opposite is true and the taxpayer ends up cleaning up the mess of another public private fuck up.
          Mark look at whats happening in the UK
          PPP.s are bankrupting the UK.
          Dumb and Dumber bean brained bean counters trying to run education.
          Isaac’s what a joke her experience I’ve been on the board of trustees of my kids school.
          Mark you better f/off back to the centre of independent studies for some better propaganda than BS your spewing out here.

  15. mike e 15

    Mark Act BS you are pushing 1% of people voted for the party that seems to have more power than it deserves.
    Your info is out of date like your redneck BS.
    Overseas right wing propagandists are pushing the same line with made up data.
    They have been outed the latest Education scammer Michelle lee who falsified Data to help her careerer .
    Because Act has done dismally its using its financial mite to bully everyone into submission.

  16. Colonial Viper 16

    Mark making noises that National Standards will allow us to better target resources at areas which are failing.

    Hey, newsflash, we ALREADY know all that, we just need to DO IT.

    You’re just running delays and cover for National’s no idea no plan strategy.

    • Herodotus 16.1

      CV ask any parent with an education background. If they cannot buy into it why should anyone else.
      Re league tables – who needs them Key lives in the grammar zone and even these 2 state school were not up to his NATIONAL standards

  17. fabregas4 17

    I’m waiting for Key to say “Well as for those academics I could get you 101 who would hold a counter view” and praying for an interviewer who replies “like who for example- please tell me the names of say 10”.

  18. Georgy 18

    Wouldn’t it be good if Grumpy and Mark could clearly show what a national standard is for, lets say, year 8 writing, how it was determined, why it is a national standard, how it is moderated, and how, when coupled to a decile level, would be useful info for parents.

    It would also be good if they could clearly show how league tables are actually created, what data is used, how it is collated, and why it is a true reflection of a given school.

    Come on you guys, please enlighten us.

  19. I get the impression from Grumpy and others of his ilk that the education system would perform better with politicians deciding what and how we should teach and assess. We need to remove teachers as having a legitimate voice in what happens in education and we should ignore the views of 100 education academics who don’t know a jot about education. This all sounds like climate change deniers rejecting the 95% of scientific agreement.

    What Grumpy and the Government don’t understand is that of all the determiners of a child’s education achievement the influence of teachers only contributes 10%. Family wealth, cultural background and natural capability make up the majority of the determiners. Considering New Zealand is a multicultural society (20% of NZ children tested for the international PISA assessment spoke English as a second language) and we have the fastest growing income inequity in the OECD, we perform extremely well.

    It is interesting that for many years we ranked in the international top five for education but since National took power our ranking is slipping. With the unfortunate focus on just numeracy and literacy we have dropped in our science achievement and our ranking overall is now about 6th or 7th. The top ranked countries like Finland do not have national standards or league tables. We are adopting the systems of the US and UK who a ranked well beneath us and we are rapidly moving down to join them.

    • grumpy 19.1

      “……the unfortunate focus on just numeracy and literacy ….”

      Says it all really.

      • Kotahi Tane Huna 19.1.1

        What Grumps, you think your vague allusions count as an argument do you? Not everyone is as inarticulate as you are. Thank goodness you have fuck all say in education policy.

      • framu 19.1.2

        not really – you missed out the remainder of the sentence, and paragraph

        try reading the whole thing then get back to us

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    Gaming laptops represent a significant investment for passionate gamers, offering portability and powerful performance for immersive gaming experiences. However, a common concern among potential buyers is their lifespan. Unlike desktop PCs, which allow for easier component upgrades, gaming laptops have inherent limitations due to their compact and integrated design. This ...
    1 day ago
  • Climate Change: Turning the tide
    The annual inventory report of New Zealand's greenhouse gas emissions has been released, showing that gross emissions have dropped for the third year in a row, to 78.4 million tons: All-told gross emissions have decreased by over 6 million tons since the Zero Carbon Act was passed in 2019. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • How to Unlock Your Computer A Comprehensive Guide to Regaining Access
    Experiencing a locked computer can be frustrating, especially when you need access to your files and applications urgently. The methods to unlock your computer will vary depending on the specific situation and the type of lock you encounter. This guide will explore various scenarios and provide step-by-step instructions on how ...
    1 day ago
  • Faxing from Your Computer A Modern Guide to Sending Documents Digitally
    While the world has largely transitioned to digital communication, faxing still holds relevance in certain industries and situations. Fortunately, gone are the days of bulky fax machines and dedicated phone lines. Today, you can easily send and receive faxes directly from your computer, offering a convenient and efficient way to ...
    1 day ago
  • Protecting Your Home Computer A Guide to Cyber Awareness
    In our increasingly digital world, home computers have become essential tools for work, communication, entertainment, and more. However, this increased reliance on technology also exposes us to various cyber threats. Understanding these threats and taking proactive steps to protect your home computer is crucial for safeguarding your personal information, finances, ...
    1 day ago
  • Server-Based Computing Powering the Modern Digital Landscape
    In the ever-evolving world of technology, server-based computing has emerged as a cornerstone of modern digital infrastructure. This article delves into the concept of server-based computing, exploring its various forms, benefits, challenges, and its impact on the way we work and interact with technology. Understanding Server-Based Computing: At its core, ...
    1 day ago
  • Vroom vroom go the big red trucks
    The absolute brass neck of this guy.We want more medical doctors, not more spin doctors, Luxon was saying a couple of weeks ago, and now we’re told the guy has seven salaried adults on TikTok duty. Sorry, doing social media. The absolute brass neck of it. The irony that the ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 day ago
  • Jones finds $410,000 to help the government muscle in on a spat project
    Buzz from the Beehive Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones relishes spatting and eagerly takes issue with environmentalists who criticise his enthusiasm for resource development. He relishes helping the fishing industry too. And so today, while the media are making much of the latest culling in the public service to ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 day ago
  • Again, hate crimes are not necessarily terrorism.
    Having written, taught and worked for the US government on issues involving unconventional warfare and terrorism for 30-odd years, two things irritate me the most when the subject is discussed in public. The first is the Johnny-come-lately academics-turned-media commentators who … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 day ago
  • Despair – construction consenting edition
    Eric Crampton writes – Kainga Ora is the government’s house building agency. It’s been building a lot of social housing. Kainga Ora has its own (but independent) consenting authority, Consentium. It’s a neat idea. Rather than have to deal with building consents across each different territorial authority, Kainga Ora ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 day ago
  • Coalition promises – will the Govt keep the commitment to keep Kiwis equal before the law?
    Muriel Newman writes – The Coalition Government says it is moving with speed to deliver campaign promises and reverse the damage done by Labour. One of their key commitments is to “defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law.” To achieve this, they have pledged they “will not advance ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 day ago
  • An impermanent public service is a guarantee of very little else but failure
    Chris Trotter writes –  The absence of anything resembling a fightback from the public servants currently losing their jobs is interesting. State-sector workers’ collective fatalism in the face of Coalition cutbacks indicates a surprisingly broad acceptance of impermanence in the workplace. Fifty years ago, lay-offs in the thousands ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 day ago
  • What happens after the war – Mariupol
    Mariupol, on the Azov Sea coast, was one of the first cities to suffer almost complete destruction after the start of the Ukraine War started in late February 2022. We remember the scenes of absolute destruction of the houses and city structures. The deaths of innocent civilians – many of ...
    2 days ago
  • Babies and benefits – no good news
    Lindsay Mitchell writes – Ten years ago, I wrote the following in a Listener column: Every year around one in five new-born babies will be reliant on their caregivers benefit by Christmas. This pattern has persisted from at least 1993. For Maori the number jumps to over one in three.  ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago
  • Should the RBNZ be looking through climate inflation?
    Climate change is expected to generate more and more extreme events, delivering a sort of structural shock to inflation that central banks will have to react to as if they were short-term cyclical issues. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Bernard's pick 'n' mix of the news links
    The top six news links I’ve seen elsewhere in the last 24 hours, as of 9:16 am on Thursday, April 18 are:Housing: Tauranga residents living in boats, vans RNZ Checkpoint Louise TernouthHousing: Waikato councillor says wastewater plant issues could hold up Sleepyhead building a massive company town Waikato Times Stephen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the public sector carnage, and misogyny as terrorism
    It’s a simple deal. We pay taxes in order to finance the social services we want and need. The carnage now occurring across the public sector though, is breaking that contract. Over 3,000 jobs have been lost so far. Many are in crucial areas like Education where the impact of ...
    2 days ago
  • Meeting the Master Baiters
    Hi,A friend had their 40th over the weekend and decided to theme it after Curb Your Enthusiasm fashion icon Susie Greene. Captured in my tiny kitchen before I left the house, I ending up evoking a mix of old lesbian and Hillary Clinton — both unintentional.Me vs Hillary ClintonIf you’re ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    2 days ago
  • How extreme was the Earth's temperature in 2023
    This is a re-post from Andrew Dessler at the Climate Brink blog In 2023, the Earth reached temperature levels unprecedented in modern times. Given that, it’s reasonable to ask: What’s going on? There’s been lots of discussions by scientists about whether this is just the normal progression of global warming or if something ...
    2 days ago
  • Backbone, revisited
    The schools are on holiday and the sun is shining in the seaside village and all day long I have been seeing bunches of bikes; Mums, Dads, teens and toddlers chattering, laughing, happy, having a bloody great time together. Cheers, AT, for the bits of lane you’ve added lately around the ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • Ministers are not above the law
    Today in our National-led authoritarian nightmare: Shane Jones thinks Ministers should be above the law: New Zealand First MP Shane Jones is accusing the Waitangi Tribunal of over-stepping its mandate by subpoenaing a minister for its urgent hearing on the Oranga Tamariki claim. The tribunal is looking into the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • What’s the outfit you can hear going down the gurgler? Probably it’s David Parker’s Oceans Sec...
    Buzz from the Beehive Point  of Order first heard of the Oceans Secretariat in June 2021, when David Parker (remember him?) announced a multi-agency approach to protecting New Zealand’s marine ecosystems and fisheries. Parker (holding the Environment, and Oceans and Fisheries portfolios) broke the news at the annual Forest & ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 days ago
  • Will politicians let democracy die in the darkness?
    Bryce Edwards writes  – Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago
  • Matt Doocey doubles down on trans “healthcare”
    Citizen Science writes –  Last week saw two significant developments in the debate over the treatment of trans-identifying children and young people – the release in Britain of the final report of Dr Hilary Cass’s review into gender healthcare, and here in New Zealand, the news that the ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago
  • A TikTok Prime Minister.
    One night while sleeping in my bed I had a beautiful dreamThat all the people of the world got together on the same wavelengthAnd began helping one anotherNow in this dream, universal love was the theme of the dayPeace and understanding and it happened this wayAfter such an eventful day ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Texas Lessons
    This is a guest post by Oscar Simms who is a housing activist, volunteer for the Coalition for More Homes, and was the Labour Party candidate for Auckland Central at the last election. ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    3 days ago
  • Bernard's pick 'n' mix of the news links at 6:06 am
    The top six news links I’ve seen elsewhere in the last 24 hours as of 6:06 am on Wednesday, April 17 are:Must read: Secrecy shrouds which projects might be fast-tracked RNZ Farah HancockScoop: Revealed: Luxon has seven staffers working on social media content - partly paid for by taxpayer Newshub ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Fighting poverty on the holiday highway
    Turning what Labour called the “holiday highway” into a four-lane expressway from Auckland to Whangarei could bring at least an economic benefit of nearly two billion a year for Northland each year. And it could help bring an end to poverty in one of New Zealand’s most deprived regions. The ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    3 days ago
  • Bernard's six-stack of substacks at 6:26 pm
    Tonight’s six-stack includes: launching his substack with a bunch of his previous documentaries, including this 1992 interview with Dame Whina Cooper. and here crew give climate activists plenty to do, including this call to submit against the Fast Track Approvals bill. writes brilliantly here on his substack ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • At a glance – Is the science settled?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    3 days ago
  • Apposite Quotations.
    How Long Is Long Enough? Gaza under Israeli bombardment, July 2014. This posting is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    3 days ago
  • What’s a life worth now?
    You're in the mall when you hear it: some kind of popping sound in the distance, kids with fireworks, maybe. But then a moment of eerie stillness is followed by more of the fireworks sound and there’s also screaming and shrieking and now here come people running for their lives.Does ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Howling at the Moon
    Karl du Fresne writes –  There’s a crisis in the news media and the media are blaming it on everyone except themselves. Culpability is being deflected elsewhere – mainly to the hapless Minister of Communications, Melissa Lee, and the big social media platforms that are accused of hoovering ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Newshub is Dead.
    I don’t normally send out two newsletters in a day but I figured I’d say something about… the news. If two newsletters is a bit much then maybe just skip one, I don’t want to overload people. Alternatively if you’d be interested in sometimes receiving multiple, smaller updates from me, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Seymour is chuffed about cutting early-learning red tape – but we hear, too, that Jones has loose...
    Buzz from the Beehive David Seymour and Winston Peters today signalled that at least two ministers of the Crown might be in Wellington today. Seymour (as Associate Minister of Education) announced the removal of more red tape, this time to make it easier for new early learning services to be ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Bryce Edwards: Will politicians let democracy die in the darkness?
    Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. Our political system is suffering from the ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    3 days ago
  • Was Hawkesby entirely wrong?
    David Farrar  writes –  The Broadcasting Standards Authority ruled: Comments by radio host Kate Hawkesby suggesting Māori and Pacific patients were being prioritised for surgery due to their ethnicity were misleading and discriminatory, the Broadcasting Standards Authority has found. It is a fact such patients are prioritised. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • PRC shadow looms as the Solomons head for election
    PRC and its proxies in Solomons have been preparing for these elections for a long time. A lot of money, effort and intelligence have gone into ensuring an outcome that won’t compromise Beijing’s plans. Cleo Paskall writes – On April 17th the Solomon Islands, a country of ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Climate Change: Criminal ecocide
    We are in the middle of a climate crisis. Last year was (again) the hottest year on record. NOAA has just announced another global coral bleaching event. Floods are threatening UK food security. So naturally, Shane Jones wants to make it easier to mine coal: Resources Minister Shane Jones ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Is saving one minute of a politician's time worth nearly $1 billion?
    Is speeding up the trip to and from Wellington airport by 12 minutes worth spending up more than $10 billion? Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me in the last day to 8:26 am today are:The Lead: Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Long Tunnel or Long Con?
    Yesterday it was revealed that Transport Minister had asked Waka Kotahi to look at the options for a long tunnel through Wellington. State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the ...
    4 days ago
  • Smoke And Mirrors.
    You're a fraud, and you know itBut it's too good to throw it all awayAnyone would do the sameYou've got 'em goingAnd you're careful not to show itSometimes you even fool yourself a bitIt's like magicBut it's always been a smoke and mirrors gameAnyone would do the sameForty six billion ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • What is Mexico doing about climate change?
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections The June general election in Mexico could mark a turning point in ensuring that the country’s climate policies better reflect the desire of its citizens to address the climate crisis, with both leading presidential candidates expressing support for renewable energy. Mexico is the ...
    4 days ago
  • State of humanity, 2024
    2024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?When I say 2024 I really mean the state of humanity in 2024.Saturday night, we watched Civil War because that is one terrifying cliff we've ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago
  • Govt’s Wellington tunnel vision aims to ease the way to the airport (but zealous promoters of cycl...
    Buzz from the Beehive A pet project and governmental tunnel vision jump out from the latest batch of ministerial announcements. The government is keen to assure us of its concern for the wellbeing of our pets. It will be introducing pet bonds in a change to the Residential Tenancies Act ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • The case for cultural connectedness
    A recent report generated from a Growing Up in New Zealand (GUiNZ) survey of 1,224 rangatahi Māori aged 11-12 found: Cultural connectedness was associated with fewer depression symptoms, anxiety symptoms and better quality of life. That sounds cut and dry. But further into the report the following appears: Cultural connectedness is ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Useful context on public sector job cuts
    David Farrar writes –    The Herald reports: From the gory details of job-cuts news, you’d think the public service was being eviscerated.   While the media’s view of the cuts is incomplete, it’s also true that departments have been leaking the particulars faster than a Wellington ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell On When Racism Comes Disguised As Anti-racism
    Remember the good old days, back when New Zealand had a PM who could think and speak calmly and intelligently in whole sentences without blustering? Even while Iran’s drones and missiles were still being launched, Helen Clark was live on TVNZ expertly summing up the latest crisis in the Middle ...
    5 days ago
  • Govt ignored economic analysis of smokefree reversal
    Costello did not pass on analysis of the benefits of the smokefree reforms to Cabinet, emphasising instead the extra tax revenues of repealing them. Photo: Hagen Hopkins, Getty Images TL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me at 7:26 am today are:The Lead: Casey Costello never passed on ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • True Blue.
    True loveYou're the one I'm dreaming ofYour heart fits me like a gloveAnd I'm gonna be true blueBaby, I love youI’ve written about the job cuts in our news media last week. The impact on individuals, and the loss to Aotearoa of voices covering our news from different angles.That by ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Who is running New Zealand’s foreign policy?
    While commentators, including former Prime Minister Helen Clark, are noting a subtle shift in New Zealand’s foreign policy, which now places more emphasis on the United States, many have missed a key element of the shift. What National said before the election is not what the government is doing now. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago

  • $41m to support clean energy in South East Asia
    New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
    The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Judicial appointments announced
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in Singapore
    Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa.  The summit is co-hosted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Value of stopbank project proven during cyclone
    A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visit
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul.    “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago
  • Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac Day
    Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
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