web analytics
The Standard
Advertising

#voteWTF – Wednesday 19 June, 8:30pm, TV3

Written By: - Date published: 5:00 pm, June 16th, 2013 - 26 comments
Categories: child abuse, class, hone harawira, Media, tv - Tags:

On this coming Wednesday’s episode of The Vote – our monthly break from the awfulness that I hear is 3rd Degree – a very angry-making important moot is to be discussed:

Our kids – The problem’s not poverty, it’s parenting. Do you agree?

I first heard of this on Twitter, was informed of this, and the fact that one of the “debaters” is to be Bob McCoskrie, on Twitter.  Then I visited the webpage for the show and found out who the rest of the debaters are.  On the side of “shitting on poor people”:

  • Bob McCoskrie
  • Hannah Tamaki
  • Christine Rankin

On the side of “acknowledging that poverty is a thing”

  • Celia Lashlie
  • Dr Russell Wills
  • Hone Harawira

Oh my god.  This is going to be a fucking trainwreck punctuated with occasional moments of beautiful Hone smackdown.  This totally calls for live-tweeting.

If you’re not already hanging on my every word on the Twitterz, you can follow #voteWTF.  I cannot promise lulz.  Only capslock.

(And if my usual Twitter account gets blocked for excessive tweeting, catch me on my jail account.)

If you want to do some homework before the debate, I recommend r0b’s Poverty Watch posts.

26 comments on “#voteWTF – Wednesday 19 June, 8:30pm, TV3”

  1. Rogue Trooper 1

    well, I have heard Wills recently starting to tow the Nat company line, I have met Celia Lashlie, a little dated.
    Go Hone!

  2. Lanthanide 2

    Isn’t poverty a massive cause of poor parenting? And vice-versa?

    Seems pointless to try and work out which of the two is most to blame – it’s pretty clear which is the easier one for society to solve, though.

    • Poverty makes the best of parents inadequate.

      • Treetop 2.1.1

        The cost of living is what puts parents/carers under the most pressure. Day in and day out having to shift the necessary expenses around which can cause low self esteem and anger. Not seeing a way out and then a child does something to annoy the parent/carer and the parent/carer over reacts, then a cycle of violence due to financial stress occurs.

        It is easier to solve the inadequate parenting skills than it is to solve CHRONIC poverty.

        What is chronic poverty?

        I’m not saying that there are not some really selfish inadequate parents/carers out there who do drugs, alcohol or gamble before prioritising the bills. This group need intensive managing and then if they put the child/ren second to their addiction then their children could be better off without the parent/carer.

        The most effective thing which the government can do to alleviate poverty is to build 10,000 state homes each year for the next 10 years and charge 25% of the income for rent.

    • weka 2.2

      Isn’t poverty a massive cause of poor parenting? And vice-versa?

      They shouldn’t even be in the same sentence. This comment from the TV3 promo page,

      Sally Birch • 3 days ago −
      Sorry team…you have totally missed the mark with this question, though I know it’s been bandied about a lot in different forms lately. Bad parenting and poverty are quite separate issues. Yes, some poor people are bad parents…some rich ones too. But the majority of parents are doing the very best they can. There is a growing poverty problem in New Zealand and there’s no doubt about it. Our substandard damp and cold housing means kids are getting sick with serious diseases all but eradicated in Europe….people can’t afford to heat their homes and can’t afford the basic essentials needed for a healthy life. Some can scrape by better than others. However, those who are less educated and more isolated really do miss out, and so do their children. There are some relatively simple solutions. The Government could start by listening to people like Bryan Bruce and looking to the examples given in his documentary. Weekly school visits by medical professionals and free hot and nutritious lunches at all schools (paid for by tax breaks allocated per parent and redirected by Government to schools). Those two measures alone would make a huge difference and save tax payers billions of dollars in the long run. I really am tired of this badly framed question though. All it does is give the red-necked beneficiary bashers a really big soapbox.

    • QoT 2.3

      Isn’t poverty a massive cause of poor parenting? And vice-versa?

      What, you mean “they’re making poor choices” and thus their kids deserve to go hungry? Because … well, that’s kind of exactly what you just said.

      • Lanthanide 2.3.1

        Being in poverty makes it very difficult to raise your children well, as you have very limited options, especially when things outside of your control happen and you have no financial resources to deal with it effectively (eg, car brakes down – no food for the week).

        Similarly poor-parenting can lead to poverty, whether you’re talking about 2nd generation poverty due to the poor childhood of the now-adult, or whether you’re talking about someone who makes bad choices with regards to their life in general (of which parenting is an aspect) and therefore end up in poverty.

        I never said “they’re making poor choices and thus their kids deserve to go hungry”.

        • weka 2.3.1.1

          whether you’re talking about 2nd generation poverty due to the poor childhood of the now-adult,

          That’s not poor parenting causing poverty, that’s poverty causing poverty.

          It’s just better to not try and mix the two things together. They’re separate phenomena that should be looked at separately rather than cause and effect.

          • Lanthanide 2.3.1.1.2

            “It’s just better to not try and mix the two things together. They’re separate phenomena that should be looked at separately rather than cause and effect.”

            That’s actually my point. Trying to have a discussion about them together won’t achieve anything.

            “That’s not poor parenting causing poverty, that’s poverty causing poverty.”

            Not really. I can easily imagine that people who simply weren’t cut out to be parents, but who weren’t in poverty, damaging their children so that when they grew up they fell into poverty. In fact my (now deceased) ex is very much an example of someone who’s family wasn’t in poverty, but had a terrible upbringing that left him really messed up and effectively drove him to bankruptcy twice – having met his family, it was very easy to see why he acted the way he did.

  3. NickS 3

    I’m almost tempted to watch this. Just to see Hone swinging the cluebat and dropping anvils from great heights, though the shitting on poor people side is probably going to result in a headache for me from constant /headdesk-ing :( For the stupid is very, very strong on that side…

  4. Arfamo 4

    I want to watch it but I expect it to be so botched by the format as to be nothing other than pointless argy bargy.

  5. the dogs’-breakfast that was the drugs argy-bargy should give some idea of how this one will be handled..

    ..the co-comperes will be digging for incendiary-comments..and reactions..

    ..hoping for much noise..but guaranteeing little light..

    ..(and as an aside..is anyone else puzzled by that my-underpants-are-too-tight-and-have-itching-powder-in-them shuffle-duet that the co-comperes do..?..while talking..?

    ..and the montgomery burns’-styling back-stoops..?..while shuffling..?..w.t.f. is up with that..?..)

    ..and as for 3rd degree..?..whoar..!..

    ..it stinks like a basket of dead fish left out in the sun for a week..

    ..’and coming up after the break..!..yet another cursory-glance at yet another irrelevant subject/first world problem..!’..)

    ..is 3rd degree a trojan-horse from ‘good morning’..?

    phillip ure..

  6. weka 6

    Thanks so much for this QoT. Makes me want to join twitter.

    The ‘debate’ would have to be one of the most profoundly depressing things I’ve come across this year. I’m just imagining the people at TV3 that came up with this idea, and then how they decided who they wanted on each ‘side’, and what it is about their hearts and minds that allows them to think that even asking this question, let alone with that line up of people, is a good idea.

    Maybe they believe that there are two sides to the story and so they’re doing the country and the kids a good service. Or maybe they are just craven, ratings-driven and soulless and think it will be good entertainment. Maybe that they are about to reinforce immensely damaging cultural and social prejudices deeply into parts of the NZ psyche is completely beyond their comprehension. I bet they believe that they are good people.

    • QoT 6.1

      You can still follow the hashtag without having a Twitter account!

      And given the team, and the history of The Vote and 3rd Degree … I’m definitely on the side of “craven, ratings-driven and soulless”.

      • weka 6.1.1

        Should be home after nine on Weds, so will watch the debacle on twitter (no TV thank god).

  7. McFlock 7

    Russell Wills is pretty good, too.

  8. * Bob McCoskrie
    * Hannah Tamaki
    * Christine Rankin

    What the hell do those three know about poverty?!?!

    Especially Hannah Tamaki, living of millions in donations from her Church members?!

    God almighty, those three are the last to be spouting about low income families.

    • QoT 8.1

      Because they know what’s right for our children because they understand family values. Or something.

    • felix 8.2

      Hmm, what do Tamaki and Rankin know about poverty?

      How to entrench it?

      • Rogue Trooper 8.2.1

        it is a tragedy that these people get to speak in such a public forum on such a socio-politically crucial matter. Speaks volumes about mainstream local culture, absolutely appalling. And if the ‘parenting’ position is carried…then what? Re-education camps? How about access to the cultural capital that supports parenting.
        Will they examine the prejudice-instilling parenting of the privilaged? Will they examine the hidden phenomenon of middle class and above white parents abusing and neglecting their children. Will they conflate deprivation, neglect and abuse? wtf am I asking for…sigh.

      • Rogue Trooper 8.2.2

        it is a tragedy that these people get to speak in such a public forum on such a socio-politically crucial matter. Speaks volumes about mainstream local culture, absolutely appalling. And if the ‘parenting’ position is carried…then what? Re-education camps? How about access to the cultural capital that supports parenting.
        Will they examine the prejudice-instilling parenting of the privilaged? Will they examine the hidden phenomenon of middle class and above white parents abusing and neglecting their children. Will they conflate deprivation, neglect and abuse? wtf am I asking for…sigh.

  9. Rogue Trooper 9

    Family First Sponsored (right-wing) Research blames “the schools”.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/education/news/article.cfm?c_id=35&objectid=10891000

    • tc 9.1

      Expect alot of this under mediaworks new owners and pay careful attention to see the hand of stevie wonder boy joyce in any deal. Be interesting to see how transparent that affair is, look for the ‘public interest’ angle tagged to any taxpayer give aways as sweeeteners.

  10. Morrissey 10

    Bob (The Belt) McCoskrie is on record that parents should be allowed to hit children WITH A HAIRBRUSH;

    Christine (Spankin’) Rankin thinks that parents should be allowed to hit their children at will, but shouts insanely about the Māori ones who take that a step too far;

    Hannah Tamaki is a preposterous loon married to an even more preposterous loon…
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/opinion/6341239/The-secret-diary-of-Hannah-Tamaki

    This could be the worst edition of The Vote yet. As—if—you watch it, bear in mind that, earlier this year, that silly old coot Phil Wallington praised this televisual travesty as “an exciting new development in local current affairs broadcasting”.

Important links

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

1 2 3 7

  • 50 cents? Makes no sense.
    The minimum wage rose by 50 cents this month from 14.25 to 14.75. While it’s a small step towards ensuring minimum workers get a fair share, it’s important to remember that real wages only rose 1.5% while productivity rose by… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    6 hours ago
  • The Serco corrections circus
    It should seem obvious to employers, private or public, that it’s important to do what you can to retain your best, most experienced staff. They make life easier for you because they’re effective, attentive and often respected by those around… ...
    GreensBy David Clendon MP
    7 hours ago
  • Time for NZ to prohibit the killing of great apes
    That ban was widely hailed, and spurred efforts in other countries to get similar bans. However, apes are still being exploited, abused and killed, both in captivity and in the wild. Examples of cruelty, neglect and abuse abound. Apes are… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers MP
    3 days ago
  • Auckland building consents: Tragic
    The only word to describe the latest building consent figures for Auckland is ‘tragic’, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Whatever the Government is doing to address the Auckland housing crisis, it is clearly not working. ...
    3 days ago
  • A whiff of a new biosecurity scandal?
    A pest which could create havoc for New Zealand’s horticulture and agriculture sector must be as much a focus for the Government as hunting out fruit flies, Labour’s Biosecurity spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “While the Ministry for Primary Industries is… ...
    3 days ago
  • Government shrugs off health sector crisis
    Despite new evidence showing that cuts to health spending are costing lives the Government continues to deny the sector is struggling, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says. “Health services in New Zealand are in crisis. ...
    4 days ago
  • Parata lowered the bar for failing charter school
    When Hekia Parata became aware that the Whangaruru charter school was experiencing major problems her first action was to drop standards by reducing the number of qualified teachers they had to employ, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins has revealed. “Hekia… ...
    4 days ago
  • National not being straight about the economy
    John Key and Bill English need to be straight with New Zealanders about the damage their failure to diversify the economy is doing, after new figures show export growth plunged due to a collapse in dairy exports, says Grant Robertson.… ...
    4 days ago
  • Mind the Gap
    This week the International Monetary Fund released a report on the wider economic value in closing the gender pay gap. When even the bastions of free-market economics start to raise concerns about gender pay gaps, we have to realise how… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    4 days ago
  • Labour will hold National to parental leave promise
    Labour will hold National to its promise to increase the support given to new parents of premature, multiple birth and babies born with disabilities, Labour’s paid parental leave campaigner Sue Moroney says. "I am naturally disappointed that after battling for… ...
    5 days ago
  • It was all just pillar talk
    Steven Joyce’s confession that he can no longer guarantee a pillar-free design for the New Zealand International Convention Centre shows the Government has abandoned its dream of creating an ‘iconic’ ‘world-class’ structure, says Labour Economic Development spokesperson David Clark. “Steven… ...
    5 days ago
  • Australians move on offshore speculators
    John Key might want to have a quiet word with Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott about Canberra's just-announced crack down on offshore speculators when he visits New Zealand this week, Labour's Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says."Tony Abbott's centre right government… ...
    5 days ago
  • Government at odds on overseas driver crashes
    National backbencher Jacqui Dean has spoken out about overseas driver crashes, putting herself at odds with Prime Minister John Key who is on record as saying it’s not a big issue, Labour’s Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “I’m not surprised… ...
    5 days ago
  • Human Rights and the Palestine Crisis
    Last week I heard two Palestinians speak at Wellington events about the ongoing crisis in their country. Samar Sabawi spoke to a full house about the history of Palestine and gave us a lucid and disturbing account of the situation… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    5 days ago
  • Time to take real care of our kids
    An Amnesty International report has once again criticised New Zealand’s track record on looking after our kids, Labour’s Children’s spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. The annual report, which looks at global human rights abuses highlights not only the fact that high… ...
    5 days ago
  • John Key wrong about Labour’s war vote
    John Key’s desperate claims that the former Labour Government didn’t put combat troop deployment to a Parliamentary vote are simply wrong, Labour’s Defence spokesperson Phil Goff says. “It was disgraceful that the Prime Minister ran rough shod over democracy and… ...
    5 days ago
  • Māori language bill needs work
     It is clear that the first draft of the Māori Language Bill was about structures and funding rather than the survival of te reo Māori, Labour’s Māori Development Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta says.  “Labour is pleased that the Minister of Māori… ...
    5 days ago
  • Report proves troubled school shouldn’t have opened
    The long-awaited release of an Education Review Office report into Northland’s troubled Whangaruru charter school proves it should never have been approved in the first place, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “This report identifies problems with absenteeism and disengaged… ...
    6 days ago
  • Reply to PM’s statement on deploying troops to Iraq
    “The decision of any Government to send troops to a conflict zone is a very serious one, and it is right that this House takes time to consider it, to debate it, and, ideally, to vote on it, but we… ...
    6 days ago
  • Minister must take action on death trap slides
    Workplace Relations Safety Minister Michael Woodhouse must take urgent action to ensure inflatable amusement rides don’t become death traps for children, Labour’s spokesperson on Labour Relations Iain Lees-Galloway says. “No one wants to stop kids having fun, but horror stories… ...
    6 days ago
  • Manus Island and the New Zealand Government
    This week the Greens have participated in awareness activity about Manus Island, the refugee camp on an island in Papua New Guinea where Australia dumps asylum seekers. John Key says that he has every confidence in the Australian Government’s claim… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Election Inquiry – Getting accessible voting on the agenda
    James Shaw has been doing a series of blogs on the Election Inquiry into last year’s general election.  I thought this was a great opportunity to raise an issue very dear to me – accessible voting. Last year’s general election… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers MP
    2 weeks ago
  • RMA changes no solution to Christchurch housing
    Housing will continue to be a big issue in 2015. The latest Consumer Price Index, released last month, shows both good news and bad news on the housing front. After years of being the most expensive place to build a… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Saving kokako in South Auckland’s Hunua Ranges
    It is amazing that you can hear the song of the endangered North Island kokako in South Auckland’s Hunua Ranges, less than 50 kms from the central city. A heavy schedule of policy workshops at the Green Party’s Policy… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Let’s not turn a blind eye to human rights
    The Cricket World Cup has just opened in New Zealand, and it’s an opportunity for us to shine on the world stage. International sport can be a chance for us to build relationships with other countries, and examine what it… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Its Just Not Cricket
    This week it was my privilege to work with Sri Lankan Tamil communities in this country and host Australian journalist and human rights advocate Trevor Grant. I knew a bit about Trevor from his biography but I didn’t know just… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Time for NZ to #BeCrueltyFree
    The Government is about to progress the final stages of the Animal Welfare Amendment bill. This will be our last opportunity to get changes made to improve the bill to ensure a better outcome for animals. I have put forwards… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers MP
    2 weeks ago
  • We want access!
    Access to buildings is a big issue for many New Zealanders. It looks like that, due to the hard work and persistence of people in the disability community, the Government may finally be starting to take access to buildings seriously.… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Greens call on Super Fund to divest from fossil fuels
    The Green Party today called on the New Zealand Superannuation Fund (the Fund) to divest from fossil fuels, starting immediately with coal. The call was accompanied with a new report, Making money from a climate catastrophe: The case for divesting… ...
    GreensBy Russel Norman MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Young Kiwis’ housing crisis
    Shelter is a fundamental human need along with food, water and clean air. All humans need adequate shelter; it’s a human right. Warm, safe, stable accommodation is critical for young people to be able learn and grow and just be.… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    3 weeks ago

Removed at the request of The Daily Blog.
Public service advertisements by The Standard

Current CO2 level in the atmosphere