web analytics

#voteWTF – Wednesday 19 June, 8:30pm, TV3

Written By: - Date published: 5:00 pm, June 16th, 2013 - 26 comments
Categories: child abuse, class, hone harawira, Media, tv - Tags:

On this coming Wednesday’s episode of The Vote – our monthly break from the awfulness that I hear is 3rd Degree – a very angry-making important moot is to be discussed:

Our kids – The problem’s not poverty, it’s parenting. Do you agree?

I first heard of this on Twitter, was informed of this, and the fact that one of the “debaters” is to be Bob McCoskrie, on Twitter.  Then I visited the webpage for the show and found out who the rest of the debaters are.  On the side of “shitting on poor people”:

  • Bob McCoskrie
  • Hannah Tamaki
  • Christine Rankin

On the side of “acknowledging that poverty is a thing”

  • Celia Lashlie
  • Dr Russell Wills
  • Hone Harawira

Oh my god.  This is going to be a fucking trainwreck punctuated with occasional moments of beautiful Hone smackdown.  This totally calls for live-tweeting.

If you’re not already hanging on my every word on the Twitterz, you can follow #voteWTF.  I cannot promise lulz.  Only capslock.

(And if my usual Twitter account gets blocked for excessive tweeting, catch me on my jail account.)

If you want to do some homework before the debate, I recommend r0b’s Poverty Watch posts.

26 comments on “#voteWTF – Wednesday 19 June, 8:30pm, TV3”

  1. Rogue Trooper 1

    well, I have heard Wills recently starting to tow the Nat company line, I have met Celia Lashlie, a little dated.
    Go Hone!

  2. Lanthanide 2

    Isn’t poverty a massive cause of poor parenting? And vice-versa?

    Seems pointless to try and work out which of the two is most to blame – it’s pretty clear which is the easier one for society to solve, though.

    • Poverty makes the best of parents inadequate.

      • Treetop 2.1.1

        The cost of living is what puts parents/carers under the most pressure. Day in and day out having to shift the necessary expenses around which can cause low self esteem and anger. Not seeing a way out and then a child does something to annoy the parent/carer and the parent/carer over reacts, then a cycle of violence due to financial stress occurs.

        It is easier to solve the inadequate parenting skills than it is to solve CHRONIC poverty.

        What is chronic poverty?

        I’m not saying that there are not some really selfish inadequate parents/carers out there who do drugs, alcohol or gamble before prioritising the bills. This group need intensive managing and then if they put the child/ren second to their addiction then their children could be better off without the parent/carer.

        The most effective thing which the government can do to alleviate poverty is to build 10,000 state homes each year for the next 10 years and charge 25% of the income for rent.

    • weka 2.2

      Isn’t poverty a massive cause of poor parenting? And vice-versa?

      They shouldn’t even be in the same sentence. This comment from the TV3 promo page,

      Sally Birch • 3 days ago −
      Sorry team…you have totally missed the mark with this question, though I know it’s been bandied about a lot in different forms lately. Bad parenting and poverty are quite separate issues. Yes, some poor people are bad parents…some rich ones too. But the majority of parents are doing the very best they can. There is a growing poverty problem in New Zealand and there’s no doubt about it. Our substandard damp and cold housing means kids are getting sick with serious diseases all but eradicated in Europe….people can’t afford to heat their homes and can’t afford the basic essentials needed for a healthy life. Some can scrape by better than others. However, those who are less educated and more isolated really do miss out, and so do their children. There are some relatively simple solutions. The Government could start by listening to people like Bryan Bruce and looking to the examples given in his documentary. Weekly school visits by medical professionals and free hot and nutritious lunches at all schools (paid for by tax breaks allocated per parent and redirected by Government to schools). Those two measures alone would make a huge difference and save tax payers billions of dollars in the long run. I really am tired of this badly framed question though. All it does is give the red-necked beneficiary bashers a really big soapbox.

    • QoT 2.3

      Isn’t poverty a massive cause of poor parenting? And vice-versa?

      What, you mean “they’re making poor choices” and thus their kids deserve to go hungry? Because … well, that’s kind of exactly what you just said.

      • Lanthanide 2.3.1

        Being in poverty makes it very difficult to raise your children well, as you have very limited options, especially when things outside of your control happen and you have no financial resources to deal with it effectively (eg, car brakes down – no food for the week).

        Similarly poor-parenting can lead to poverty, whether you’re talking about 2nd generation poverty due to the poor childhood of the now-adult, or whether you’re talking about someone who makes bad choices with regards to their life in general (of which parenting is an aspect) and therefore end up in poverty.

        I never said “they’re making poor choices and thus their kids deserve to go hungry”.

        • weka 2.3.1.1

          whether you’re talking about 2nd generation poverty due to the poor childhood of the now-adult,

          That’s not poor parenting causing poverty, that’s poverty causing poverty.

          It’s just better to not try and mix the two things together. They’re separate phenomena that should be looked at separately rather than cause and effect.

          • Lanthanide 2.3.1.1.2

            “It’s just better to not try and mix the two things together. They’re separate phenomena that should be looked at separately rather than cause and effect.”

            That’s actually my point. Trying to have a discussion about them together won’t achieve anything.

            “That’s not poor parenting causing poverty, that’s poverty causing poverty.”

            Not really. I can easily imagine that people who simply weren’t cut out to be parents, but who weren’t in poverty, damaging their children so that when they grew up they fell into poverty. In fact my (now deceased) ex is very much an example of someone who’s family wasn’t in poverty, but had a terrible upbringing that left him really messed up and effectively drove him to bankruptcy twice – having met his family, it was very easy to see why he acted the way he did.

  3. NickS 3

    I’m almost tempted to watch this. Just to see Hone swinging the cluebat and dropping anvils from great heights, though the shitting on poor people side is probably going to result in a headache for me from constant /headdesk-ing 🙁 For the stupid is very, very strong on that side…

  4. Arfamo 4

    I want to watch it but I expect it to be so botched by the format as to be nothing other than pointless argy bargy.

  5. the dogs’-breakfast that was the drugs argy-bargy should give some idea of how this one will be handled..

    ..the co-comperes will be digging for incendiary-comments..and reactions..

    ..hoping for much noise..but guaranteeing little light..

    ..(and as an aside..is anyone else puzzled by that my-underpants-are-too-tight-and-have-itching-powder-in-them shuffle-duet that the co-comperes do..?..while talking..?

    ..and the montgomery burns’-styling back-stoops..?..while shuffling..?..w.t.f. is up with that..?..)

    ..and as for 3rd degree..?..whoar..!..

    ..it stinks like a basket of dead fish left out in the sun for a week..

    ..’and coming up after the break..!..yet another cursory-glance at yet another irrelevant subject/first world problem..!’..)

    ..is 3rd degree a trojan-horse from ‘good morning’..?

    phillip ure..

  6. weka 6

    Thanks so much for this QoT. Makes me want to join twitter.

    The ‘debate’ would have to be one of the most profoundly depressing things I’ve come across this year. I’m just imagining the people at TV3 that came up with this idea, and then how they decided who they wanted on each ‘side’, and what it is about their hearts and minds that allows them to think that even asking this question, let alone with that line up of people, is a good idea.

    Maybe they believe that there are two sides to the story and so they’re doing the country and the kids a good service. Or maybe they are just craven, ratings-driven and soulless and think it will be good entertainment. Maybe that they are about to reinforce immensely damaging cultural and social prejudices deeply into parts of the NZ psyche is completely beyond their comprehension. I bet they believe that they are good people.

    • QoT 6.1

      You can still follow the hashtag without having a Twitter account!

      And given the team, and the history of The Vote and 3rd Degree … I’m definitely on the side of “craven, ratings-driven and soulless”.

      • weka 6.1.1

        Should be home after nine on Weds, so will watch the debacle on twitter (no TV thank god).

  7. McFlock 7

    Russell Wills is pretty good, too.

  8. * Bob McCoskrie
    * Hannah Tamaki
    * Christine Rankin

    What the hell do those three know about poverty?!?!

    Especially Hannah Tamaki, living of millions in donations from her Church members?!

    God almighty, those three are the last to be spouting about low income families.

    • QoT 8.1

      Because they know what’s right for our children because they understand family values. Or something.

    • felix 8.2

      Hmm, what do Tamaki and Rankin know about poverty?

      How to entrench it?

      • Rogue Trooper 8.2.1

        it is a tragedy that these people get to speak in such a public forum on such a socio-politically crucial matter. Speaks volumes about mainstream local culture, absolutely appalling. And if the ‘parenting’ position is carried…then what? Re-education camps? How about access to the cultural capital that supports parenting.
        Will they examine the prejudice-instilling parenting of the privilaged? Will they examine the hidden phenomenon of middle class and above white parents abusing and neglecting their children. Will they conflate deprivation, neglect and abuse? wtf am I asking for…sigh.

      • Rogue Trooper 8.2.2

        it is a tragedy that these people get to speak in such a public forum on such a socio-politically crucial matter. Speaks volumes about mainstream local culture, absolutely appalling. And if the ‘parenting’ position is carried…then what? Re-education camps? How about access to the cultural capital that supports parenting.
        Will they examine the prejudice-instilling parenting of the privilaged? Will they examine the hidden phenomenon of middle class and above white parents abusing and neglecting their children. Will they conflate deprivation, neglect and abuse? wtf am I asking for…sigh.

  9. Rogue Trooper 9

    Family First Sponsored (right-wing) Research blames “the schools”.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/education/news/article.cfm?c_id=35&objectid=10891000

    • tc 9.1

      Expect alot of this under mediaworks new owners and pay careful attention to see the hand of stevie wonder boy joyce in any deal. Be interesting to see how transparent that affair is, look for the ‘public interest’ angle tagged to any taxpayer give aways as sweeeteners.

  10. Morrissey 10

    Bob (The Belt) McCoskrie is on record that parents should be allowed to hit children WITH A HAIRBRUSH;

    Christine (Spankin’) Rankin thinks that parents should be allowed to hit their children at will, but shouts insanely about the Māori ones who take that a step too far;

    Hannah Tamaki is a preposterous loon married to an even more preposterous loon…
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/opinion/6341239/The-secret-diary-of-Hannah-Tamaki

    This could be the worst edition of The Vote yet. As—if—you watch it, bear in mind that, earlier this year, that silly old coot Phil Wallington praised this televisual travesty as “an exciting new development in local current affairs broadcasting”.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Government freezes elderly out of insulation subsidy
    Government cuts to the Warm Up New Zealand insulation subsidy means it will now only be available for rental properties and could leave many elderly homeowners cold this winter, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “In this year’s Budget the Government ...
    15 hours ago
  • Shewan report delivers rebuke to National
    John Shewan’s report into foreign trusts is a rebuke to John Key and the National Party who have protected an industry that has damaged New Zealand’s reputation, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Three years ago the Inland Revenue Department ...
    17 hours ago
  • Auckland Airport rail analysis must be made public
    The Government should publicly release its detailed analysis of rail to Auckland Airport before it closes off options, so the public can have an informed debate, says Labour’s Auckland Issues spokesperson Phil Twyford. The Transport Agency today said it is ...
    20 hours ago
  • Minister approved OIO consent despite death and investigations
    Louise Upston must say if she knew Intueri was being prosecuted for the death of a student and under a funding investigation when she approved its overseas investment consent to buy another education provider, says Labour’s Land Information and Associate ...
    2 days ago
  • Brexit vote costs NZ effective EU voice
    Despite being extremely close the result of the referendum in Britain reflects the majority voice, Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson David Shearer says. “While we respect the decision to leave the EU, it goes without saying the move will usher in ...
    4 days ago
  • Pasifika Education Centre doomed
    The Pasifika Education Centre appears doomed to close down this December, says Labour’s Pacific Island Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio  “In a written question I asked the Minister whether he would put a bid in for more money. His answer ...
    4 days ago
  • Onetai Station review a shameful whitewash
    A report released today on the Overseas Investment Office’s (OIO) good character test is a whitewash that does nothing to improve New Zealand’s overseas investment regime, says Labour’s Land Information spokesperson David Cunliffe. “The review of the good character test ...
    4 days ago
  • We need a national strategy to end homelessness now
    Long before I entered Parliament, housing and homelessness were issues dear to my heart. I know from personal experience just how hard it is to find an affordable home in Auckland. In my maiden speech, I talked about how when ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    4 days ago
  • Capital feels a chill economic wind
      Wellington is on the cusp of recession with a sharp fall in economic confidence in the latest Westpac McDermott Miller confidence survey, says Labour’s Regional Development spokesperson David Clark.  “Economic confidence amongst Wellingtonians has dropped 12% in the past ...
    4 days ago
  • Dive school rort took six years to dredge up
    News that yet another private training establishment (PTE) has rorted the Government’s tertiary funding system since 2009 shows that Steven Joyce has no control of the sector, says Labour’s Associate Education (Tertiary) spokesperson David Cunliffe. “Like Agribusiness Training and Taratahi, ...
    5 days ago
  • National’s housing crisis hitting renters hard
    National’s ongoing housing crisis is causing massive rental increases, with Auckland renters being hit the hardest, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    5 days ago
  • A Day with the PSA
    This week, along with Labour MP Kris Faafoi, I accepted an invitation to spend a day working alongside the good folk at the Public Service Association in Wellington. As the Workplace Relations and Safety spokesperson for the Greens, I was ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    5 days ago
  • A Day with the PSA
    This week, along with Labour MP Kris Faafoi, I accepted an invitation to spend a day working alongside the good folk at the Public Service Association in Wellington. As the Workplace Relations and Safety spokesperson for the Greens, I was ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    5 days ago
  • Government holds Northland back
    New information shows Northland remains the most economically depressed region in New Zealand, says Labour’s Regional Development spokesperson David Clark. “The latest Westpac McDermott Miller regional survey found that more Northlanders believe their local economy will deteriorate this year than ...
    5 days ago
  • Rebstock report into MFAT leaks a disgrace
    An Ombudsman’s report on the Paul Rebstock investigation into MFAT leaks shows the two diplomats at the centre of the case were treated disgracefully, says Labour’s State Services spokesperson Kris Faafoi.  “The Ombudsman says one of the diplomats Derek Leask ...
    5 days ago
  • More families forced to turn to food banks for meals
    Increasing numbers of families are having to go to food banks just to put a meal on the table, according to a new report that should shame the Government into action, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni. ...
    5 days ago
  • We have a housing emergency in New Zealand
    Auckland, New Zealand, where house prices have risen 20 percent in the last year alone We have a housing emergency in New Zealand.  Like many people we are ashamed and angry that in a wealthy country like ours, we have ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    6 days ago
  • We have a housing emergency in New Zealand
    Auckland, New Zealand, where house prices have risen 20 percent in the last year alone We have a housing emergency in New Zealand.  Like many people we are ashamed and angry that in a wealthy country like ours, we have ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    6 days ago
  • Aussie reforms signal trouble ahead for school funding plan
    Plans by the Government to return to bulk funding are likely to see increased class sizes and schools most in need missing out on much-needed resources, Labour’s Acting Education spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The signaled return to bulk funding is ...
    6 days ago
  • Toxic Sites – the down low on the go slow
    In  2011, I negotiated an agreement with the National Government to advance work on cleaning up contaminated sites across the country. This included establishing a National Register of the ten worst sites where the creators of the problem could not ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    6 days ago
  • Aucklanders face new motorway tax of up to $2500 a year
    The Government wants to tax Aucklanders thousands of dollars a year just to use the motorway network, says Labour’s Auckland Issues spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Officials estimate the average city commute is 11.8km. This means for the average Aucklander commuting five ...
    6 days ago
  • 15 corrupt bank managers identified in student fraud
    New information show 15 bank managers in India have been identified by Immigration New Zealand as presenting fraudulent documents on behalf of foreign students studying here, Labour’s Immigration spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “Documents obtained by Labour under the Official Information ...
    6 days ago
  • National leaves Kiwi savers the most vulnerable in OECD
    News last week that Israel’s Finance Minister will insure savers’ bank deposits means New Zealand will be left as the only country in the OECD that has no deposit insurance to protect savers’ funds should a bank fail. Most Kiwis ...
    GreensBy James Shaw
    7 days ago
  • Comprehensive plan for future of work needed
    A Massey University study showing many New Zealanders are unaware of the increasing role of automation in their workplace, highlights the need for a comprehensive plan for the future of work, says Grant Robertson, Chair of Labour’s Future of Work ...
    1 week ago
  • Another National Government failure: 90 day work trials
    On Friday last week, the Treasury released a report by MOTU economic consultants into the effectiveness of the controversial 90-day work trial legislation. The report found that there was “no evidence that the policy affected the number of hires by ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Iraq mission extension case not made
    The Prime Minister has not made the case for extending the Iraq deployment another 18 months nor the expansion of their mission, says Opposition Leader Andrew Little.  “Labour originally opposed the deployment because the Iraqi Army’s track record was poor, ...
    1 week ago
  • Denial is a long river
    William Rolleston from Federated Farmers made the absurd claim on RNZ on Saturday that “we actually have very clean rivers”. This statement doesn’t represent the many farmers who know water quality is in big trouble and are working to clean ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 week ago
  • Denial is a long river
    William Rolleston from Federated Farmers made the absurd claim on RNZ on Saturday that “we actually have very clean rivers”. This statement doesn’t represent the many farmers who know water quality is in big trouble and are working to clean ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 week ago
  • Melanoma deaths could be avoided by an early access scheme
      The tragic death of Dunedin’s Graeme Dore from advanced Melanoma underlines the cruelty of this Government in promising a treatment but delaying for months, says Labour’s Health Spokesperson Annette King.  “Graeme was diagnosed with Melanoma last year. He used ...
    1 week ago
  • Assessing the Defence White Paper
    The Government’s recently released Defence White Paper has raised questions again about New Zealand’s defence priorities, and in particular the level and nature of public funding on defensive capabilities. The Green Party has a longstanding belief that priority must be ...
    GreensBy Kennedy Graham
    1 week ago
  • Kiwis’ confidence drops again: Economy needs a boost
    Westpac’s consumer confidence survey has fallen for the seventh time in nine quarters, with middle income households ‘increasingly worried about where the economy is heading over the next few years’, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “This survey is a ...
    1 week ago
  • Relocation grant simply kicks can down the road
    The response by state house tenants and social agencies to the Government’s rushed plan to shift families out of Auckland tells us what we already knew – this is no answer to the chronic housing shortage, Opposition Leader Andrew Little ...
    1 week ago
  • Peace hīkoi to Parihaka
    On Friday a Green crew walked with the peace hīkoi from Ōkato to Parihaka. Some of us were from Parliament and some were party members from Taranaki and further afield. It was a cloudy but gentle day and at one ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 week ago
  • Children’s Commissioner right to worry about CYF transition
    The Government must listen to the Children’s Commissioner’s concerns that young people under CYF care could be ‘negatively impacted’ as the new agency’s reforms become reality, says Labour’s Children’s spokesperson Jacinda Ardern. “Dr Russell Wills has used the second annual ...
    1 week ago
  • Bill English exaggerates PPL costs to justify veto
    The Finance Minister has used trumped-up costings to justify a financial veto against parents having 26 weeks paid parental leave, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “Bill English’s assertion on RNZ yesterday that the measure would cost an extra $280 million ...
    1 week ago
  • Government must refund overcharged motorists
    Labour is calling on the Government to refund motor registration fees to three-quarters of a million Kiwi motorists whose vehicles were wrongly classified under National’s shambolic ACC motor vehicle risk rating system, Labour’s ACC spokesperson Sue Moroney says.“Minister Kaye’s ridiculous ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 90-day work trials an unfair failure which must change
    A new Treasury report shows the Government’s 90-day trials haven’t helped businesses and are inherently unfair, Labour’s Workplace Relations spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “The Motu report found that 90-day trial periods had no impact on overall employment and did not ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Massey East houses a start but Nick Smith should think bigger
    The Massey East 196-home development is a start but the Government must think bigger if it is to end the housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “It is great the Government is finally realising it needs to build ...
    2 weeks ago
  • More changes needed to ensure fewer cases like Teina Pora’s
    Teina Pora spent 21 years behind bars for a crime he didn’t commit, shafted by a Police investigation that prioritised an investigator’s hunch over the pursuit of credible evidence. Yesterday’s announcement that the government is to pay him $2.5m in ...
    GreensBy David Clendon
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand Labour sends condolences to UK
    The New Zealand Labour Party is sickened and saddened by the murder of British Labour MP Jo Cox, Labour Leader Andrew Little says. “Ms Cox was killed in cold blood while simply doing her job as a constituent MP. She ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Shameful refugee quota increase still leaves NZ at the bottom of the list
    Minister for Immigration Michael Woodhouse announced this week that the government will put off increasing the refugee quota by 1000 places until 2018.  It’s a shameful decision that undermines the Government’s claim that it takes its international humanitarian obligations seriously, ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    2 weeks ago
  • Paula Bennett as a victim hard to swallow
    The National Party spin machine has gone into overdrive to try and present Paula Bennett as the victim in the Te Puea Marae smear saga, says Labour Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Bill English in Parliament today tried valiantly to paint ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Voters to have the final veto on paid parental leave
    New Zealanders will have the final right of veto on a Government that has ignored democracy and is out of touch with the pressures and demands on families, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “Today’s decision by National to veto 26 ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Collins should put Kiwis’ money where her mouth is
    Labour’s Police spokesman Stuart Nash is calling on anyone who has received a speeding ticket for going up to 5km/h over the 100km/hr open road speed limit to write to him and he will take it up on their behalf ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Where is the leadership on equal pay for work of equal value?
    The gender pay gap in the public service is worse than in the private sector. I’ve always found this particularly galling because I expect our Government to provide an example to the private sector on things like human rights, rather ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    2 weeks ago
  • Kiwis’ real disposable income goes nowhere for the year
    New Zealanders’ hard work for the last year resulted in no increase in real disposable income, showing Kiwis aren’t getting ahead under National, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Today’s GDP figures reveal that real gross national disposable income per ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Pora case a case to learn from
    Conformation that Teina Pora will receive $2.5million from the Crown for more than 20 years of wrongful imprisonment does not fix the flaws in our system that led to this miscarriage of justice, Labour’s Justice spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. “The ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government needs to start again with RMA changes
    The National Government’s proposed changes to the Resource Management Act have attracted more than 800 submissions, many of them critical of key aspects of the Resource Legislation Bill. There has been much criticism of the new regulation making powers given ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    2 weeks ago
  • Bennett’s briefing completely unacceptable
    It is completely unacceptable that Paula Bennett briefed her political staff on the police investigation into Hurimoana Dennis after her meeting with him, despite it having nothing to do with her social housing portfolio, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to Green Building Council
    Building smarter, greener cities It will be clear to anyone who has been watching the public debate on the housing crisis that housing in New Zealand is sadly far from being economically sustainable when Auckland has the fourth most unaffordable ...
    2 weeks ago

Public service advertisements by The Standard

Current CO2 level in the atmosphere