#voteWTF – Wednesday 19 June, 8:30pm, TV3

26 comments on “#voteWTF – Wednesday 19 June, 8:30pm, TV3 ”

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1. Rogue Trooper 1

   16 June 2013 at 5:28 pm

   well, I have heard Wills recently starting to tow the Nat company line, I have met Celia Lashlie, a little dated.
   Go Hone!
2. Lanthanide 2

   16 June 2013 at 5:31 pm

   Isn’t poverty a massive cause of poor parenting? And vice-versa?

   Seems pointless to try and work out which of the two is most to blame – it’s pretty clear which is the easier one for society to solve, though.
   • mickysavage 2.1

     16 June 2013 at 6:20 pm

     Poverty makes the best of parents inadequate.
     • Treetop 2.1.1

       17 June 2013 at 1:55 pm

       The cost of living is what puts parents/carers under the most pressure. Day in and day out having to shift the necessary expenses around which can cause low self esteem and anger. Not seeing a way out and then a child does something to annoy the parent/carer and the parent/carer over reacts, then a cycle of violence due to financial stress occurs.

       It is easier to solve the inadequate parenting skills than it is to solve CHRONIC poverty.

       What is chronic poverty?

       I’m not saying that there are not some really selfish inadequate parents/carers out there who do drugs, alcohol or gamble before prioritising the bills. This group need intensive managing and then if they put the child/ren second to their addiction then their children could be better off without the parent/carer.

       The most effective thing which the government can do to alleviate poverty is to build 10,000 state homes each year for the next 10 years and charge 25% of the income for rent.
   • weka 2.2

     16 June 2013 at 6:51 pm

     Isn’t poverty a massive cause of poor parenting? And vice-versa?

     They shouldn’t even be in the same sentence. This comment from the TV3 promo page,

     Sally Birch • 3 days ago −
     Sorry team…you have totally missed the mark with this question, though I know it’s been bandied about a lot in different forms lately. Bad parenting and poverty are quite separate issues. Yes, some poor people are bad parents…some rich ones too. But the majority of parents are doing the very best they can. There is a growing poverty problem in New Zealand and there’s no doubt about it. Our substandard damp and cold housing means kids are getting sick with serious diseases all but eradicated in Europe….people can’t afford to heat their homes and can’t afford the basic essentials needed for a healthy life. Some can scrape by better than others. However, those who are less educated and more isolated really do miss out, and so do their children. There are some relatively simple solutions. The Government could start by listening to people like Bryan Bruce and looking to the examples given in his documentary. Weekly school visits by medical professionals and free hot and nutritious lunches at all schools (paid for by tax breaks allocated per parent and redirected by Government to schools). Those two measures alone would make a huge difference and save tax payers billions of dollars in the long run. I really am tired of this badly framed question though. All it does is give the red-necked beneficiary bashers a really big soapbox.
   • QoT 2.3

     16 June 2013 at 6:59 pm

     Isn’t poverty a massive cause of poor parenting? And vice-versa?

     What, you mean “they’re making poor choices” and thus their kids deserve to go hungry? Because … well, that’s kind of exactly what you just said.
     • Lanthanide 2.3.1

       16 June 2013 at 9:55 pm

       Being in poverty makes it very difficult to raise your children well, as you have very limited options, especially when things outside of your control happen and you have no financial resources to deal with it effectively (eg, car brakes down – no food for the week).

       Similarly poor-parenting can lead to poverty, whether you’re talking about 2nd generation poverty due to the poor childhood of the now-adult, or whether you’re talking about someone who makes bad choices with regards to their life in general (of which parenting is an aspect) and therefore end up in poverty.

       I never said “they’re making poor choices and thus their kids deserve to go hungry”.
       • weka 2.3.1.1

         16 June 2013 at 10:19 pm

         whether you’re talking about 2nd generation poverty due to the poor childhood of the now-adult,

         That’s not poor parenting causing poverty, that’s poverty causing poverty.

         It’s just better to not try and mix the two things together. They’re separate phenomena that should be looked at separately rather than cause and effect.
         • QoT 2.3.1.1.1

           16 June 2013 at 10:30 pm

           +1
         • Lanthanide 2.3.1.1.2

           17 June 2013 at 12:04 pm

           “It’s just better to not try and mix the two things together. They’re separate phenomena that should be looked at separately rather than cause and effect.”

           That’s actually my point. Trying to have a discussion about them together won’t achieve anything.

           “That’s not poor parenting causing poverty, that’s poverty causing poverty.”

           Not really. I can easily imagine that people who simply weren’t cut out to be parents, but who weren’t in poverty, damaging their children so that when they grew up they fell into poverty. In fact my (now deceased) ex is very much an example of someone who’s family wasn’t in poverty, but had a terrible upbringing that left him really messed up and effectively drove him to bankruptcy twice – having met his family, it was very easy to see why he acted the way he did.
3. NickS 3

   16 June 2013 at 5:40 pm

   I’m almost tempted to watch this. Just to see Hone swinging the cluebat and dropping anvils from great heights, though the shitting on poor people side is probably going to result in a headache for me from constant /headdesk-ing 🙁 For the stupid is very, very strong on that side…
4. Arfamo 4

   16 June 2013 at 5:49 pm

   I want to watch it but I expect it to be so botched by the format as to be nothing other than pointless argy bargy.
5. phillip ure 5

   16 June 2013 at 6:06 pm

   the dogs’-breakfast that was the drugs argy-bargy should give some idea of how this one will be handled..

   ..the co-comperes will be digging for incendiary-comments..and reactions..

   ..hoping for much noise..but guaranteeing little light..

   ..(and as an aside..is anyone else puzzled by that my-underpants-are-too-tight-and-have-itching-powder-in-them shuffle-duet that the co-comperes do..?..while talking..?

   ..and the montgomery burns’-styling back-stoops..?..while shuffling..?..w.t.f. is up with that..?..)

   ..and as for 3rd degree..?..whoar..!..

   ..it stinks like a basket of dead fish left out in the sun for a week..

   ..’and coming up after the break..!..yet another cursory-glance at yet another irrelevant subject/first world problem..!’..)

   ..is 3rd degree a trojan-horse from ‘good morning’..?

   phillip ure..
6. weka 6

   16 June 2013 at 6:46 pm

   Thanks so much for this QoT. Makes me want to join twitter.

   The ‘debate’ would have to be one of the most profoundly depressing things I’ve come across this year. I’m just imagining the people at TV3 that came up with this idea, and then how they decided who they wanted on each ‘side’, and what it is about their hearts and minds that allows them to think that even asking this question, let alone with that line up of people, is a good idea.

   Maybe they believe that there are two sides to the story and so they’re doing the country and the kids a good service. Or maybe they are just craven, ratings-driven and soulless and think it will be good entertainment. Maybe that they are about to reinforce immensely damaging cultural and social prejudices deeply into parts of the NZ psyche is completely beyond their comprehension. I bet they believe that they are good people.
   • QoT 6.1

     16 June 2013 at 6:57 pm

     You can still follow the hashtag without having a Twitter account!

     And given the team, and the history of The Vote and 3rd Degree … I’m definitely on the side of “craven, ratings-driven and soulless”.
     • weka 6.1.1

       16 June 2013 at 9:35 pm

       Should be home after nine on Weds, so will watch the debacle on twitter (no TV thank god).
7. McFlock 7

   16 June 2013 at 7:13 pm

   Russell Wills is pretty good, too.
8. Frank Macskasy 8

   16 June 2013 at 8:03 pm

   * Bob McCoskrie
   * Hannah Tamaki
   * Christine Rankin

   What the hell do those three know about poverty?!?!

   Especially Hannah Tamaki, living of millions in donations from her Church members?!

   God almighty, those three are the last to be spouting about low income families.
   • QoT 8.1

     16 June 2013 at 8:16 pm

     Because they know what’s right for our children because they understand family values. Or something.
   • felix 8.2

     16 June 2013 at 8:52 pm

     Hmm, what do Tamaki and Rankin know about poverty?

     How to entrench it?
     • Rogue Trooper 8.2.1

       16 June 2013 at 9:08 pm

       it is a tragedy that these people get to speak in such a public forum on such a socio-politically crucial matter. Speaks volumes about mainstream local culture, absolutely appalling. And if the ‘parenting’ position is carried…then what? Re-education camps? How about access to the cultural capital that supports parenting.
       Will they examine the prejudice-instilling parenting of the privilaged? Will they examine the hidden phenomenon of middle class and above white parents abusing and neglecting their children. Will they conflate deprivation, neglect and abuse? wtf am I asking for…sigh.
     • Rogue Trooper 8.2.2

       16 June 2013 at 9:09 pm

       it is a tragedy that these people get to speak in such a public forum on such a socio-politically crucial matter. Speaks volumes about mainstream local culture, absolutely appalling. And if the ‘parenting’ position is carried…then what? Re-education camps? How about access to the cultural capital that supports parenting.
       Will they examine the prejudice-instilling parenting of the privilaged? Will they examine the hidden phenomenon of middle class and above white parents abusing and neglecting their children. Will they conflate deprivation, neglect and abuse? wtf am I asking for…sigh.
9. Rogue Trooper 9

   17 June 2013 at 12:55 pm

   Family First Sponsored (right-wing) Research blames “the schools”.
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/education/news/article.cfm?c_id=35&objectid=10891000
   • tc 9.1

     17 June 2013 at 6:34 pm

     Expect alot of this under mediaworks new owners and pay careful attention to see the hand of stevie wonder boy joyce in any deal. Be interesting to see how transparent that affair is, look for the ‘public interest’ angle tagged to any taxpayer give aways as sweeeteners.
     • Rogue Trooper 9.1.1

       17 June 2013 at 9:21 pm

       did I say Julie Christie, aarrrrrrrrrrgh, yet?
10. Morrissey 10

    18 June 2013 at 7:43 am

    Bob (The Belt) McCoskrie is on record that parents should be allowed to hit children WITH A HAIRBRUSH;

    Christine (Spankin’) Rankin thinks that parents should be allowed to hit their children at will, but shouts insanely about the Māori ones who take that a step too far;

    Hannah Tamaki is a preposterous loon married to an even more preposterous loon…
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/opinion/6341239/The-secret-diary-of-Hannah-Tamaki

    This could be the worst edition of The Vote yet. As—if—you watch it, bear in mind that, earlier this year, that silly old coot Phil Wallington praised this televisual travesty as “an exciting new development in local current affairs broadcasting”.

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