<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: 7 reasons why cutting GST on food will not help</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 20:04:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Williams</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-33092</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 21:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-33092</guid>
		<description>Any exemption from GST for food (or any other item) is just making the system unneccessarily complicated.  A much better idea is to simply reduce the GST rate to 10%.  This is a simple solution that requires no extra work for businesses.  This will have an immediate effect for everyone on almost everything.  After all, GST was originally set at 10% when we were promised lower personal tax rates as a justification for introducing it in the first place.  Then the government promptly increased the rate to 12.5%.

Note that point 5 in the original post is fundamentally flawed.  Does no-one understand simple arithmetic these days?  Removing GST would not reduce prices by 12.5%.  Taking the GST off means reducing the price by 1/9th - or 11.11111%!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any exemption from GST for food (or any other item) is just making the system unneccessarily complicated.  A much better idea is to simply reduce the GST rate to 10%.  This is a simple solution that requires no extra work for businesses.  This will have an immediate effect for everyone on almost everything.  After all, GST was originally set at 10% when we were promised lower personal tax rates as a justification for introducing it in the first place.  Then the government promptly increased the rate to 12.5%.</p>
<p>Note that point 5 in the original post is fundamentally flawed.  Does no-one understand simple arithmetic these days?  Removing GST would not reduce prices by 12.5%.  Taking the GST off means reducing the price by 1/9th &#8211; or 11.11111%!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-32175</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-32175</guid>
		<description>Phil: it looks like someone spoofing the concept. I&#039;d say the posters here would fit that bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil: it looks like someone spoofing the concept. I&#8217;d say the posters here would fit that bill.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-32039</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-32039</guid>
		<description>&quot;... you chaps&quot;

Are the authors of thestandard really &quot;chaps&quot;?

My suspicion is that they do not meet the official criteria...
http://www.thechap.net/content/section_epistolary/am-I-chap.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; you chaps&#8221;</p>
<p>Are the authors of thestandard really &#8220;chaps&#8221;?</p>
<p>My suspicion is that they do not meet the official criteria&#8230;<br />
<a href="http://www.thechap.net/content/section_epistolary/am-I-chap.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.thechap.net/content/section_epistolary/am-I-chap.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: higherstandard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31980</link>
		<dc:creator>higherstandard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31980</guid>
		<description>And even Don Brash is in broad agreement with you chaps.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=77&amp;objectid=10506943</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And even Don Brash is in broad agreement with you chaps.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=77&#038;objectid=10506943" rel="nofollow">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=77&#038;objectid=10506943</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AncientGeek</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31936</link>
		<dc:creator>AncientGeek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31936</guid>
		<description>I was around when GST was introduced. In fact I was helping install accounting systems everywhere specifically because people needed them to cope with GST. 

This was in the mid-80&#039;s and a lot of businesses couldn&#039;t tell you if they were making a profit on a month by month basis. They didn&#039;t have adequate accounting systems. Some of those businesses were reasonably large. A lot of them would only do their accounting when they had to - when they had to pay taxes. Otherwise they just looked at the state of their bank balances.

One of the major benefits of GST was that it forced businesses to be come more efficient and to start understanding what was happening.

Personally I&#039;d hate to see some items become GST exempt. All that does is increase the complexity of running a business, and therefore the costs. Paradoxically it would happen the most in the businesses that have some exempt items in their range. They&#039;d have to start putting extra systems in place to cope. They&#039;d have to put prices up to cover the cost.

Bad idea. A better idea would be to look at the areas that are currently exempt and remove the exemption if possible. They were the areas that in 1986 were considered to not be cost-effective to collect from. Maybe they are now. Reduce the complexity - don&#039;t increase it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was around when GST was introduced. In fact I was helping install accounting systems everywhere specifically because people needed them to cope with GST. </p>
<p>This was in the mid-80&#8242;s and a lot of businesses couldn&#8217;t tell you if they were making a profit on a month by month basis. They didn&#8217;t have adequate accounting systems. Some of those businesses were reasonably large. A lot of them would only do their accounting when they had to &#8211; when they had to pay taxes. Otherwise they just looked at the state of their bank balances.</p>
<p>One of the major benefits of GST was that it forced businesses to be come more efficient and to start understanding what was happening.</p>
<p>Personally I&#8217;d hate to see some items become GST exempt. All that does is increase the complexity of running a business, and therefore the costs. Paradoxically it would happen the most in the businesses that have some exempt items in their range. They&#8217;d have to start putting extra systems in place to cope. They&#8217;d have to put prices up to cover the cost.</p>
<p>Bad idea. A better idea would be to look at the areas that are currently exempt and remove the exemption if possible. They were the areas that in 1986 were considered to not be cost-effective to collect from. Maybe they are now. Reduce the complexity &#8211; don&#8217;t increase it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Draco TB</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31931</link>
		<dc:creator>Draco TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31931</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Adding GST to debt like credit cards and mortgages would go down really well &lt;/blockquote&gt;
I just said there was a discrepancy - I didn&#039;t say I had a solution. Although, it has been suggested that if we cut GST down to ~1% and applied it to everything we may be able to get rid of income tax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Adding GST to debt like credit cards and mortgages would go down really well </p></blockquote>
<p>I just said there was a discrepancy &#8211; I didn&#8217;t say I had a solution. Although, it has been suggested that if we cut GST down to ~1% and applied it to everything we may be able to get rid of income tax.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: deemac</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31929</link>
		<dc:creator>deemac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31929</guid>
		<description>an accountant from PwC (not a source I often agree with) explained on Radio NZ in words of one syllable why it was a bad idea. Scrapping GST on food would mean no tax cuts OR tax rises elsewhere - and huge bureacratic costs. Still, bad ideas have cost elections in the past and will probably do so in the future. As he said, if you are worried that poor people can&#039;t afford basics, give them more money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>an accountant from PwC (not a source I often agree with) explained on Radio NZ in words of one syllable why it was a bad idea. Scrapping GST on food would mean no tax cuts OR tax rises elsewhere &#8211; and huge bureacratic costs. Still, bad ideas have cost elections in the past and will probably do so in the future. As he said, if you are worried that poor people can&#8217;t afford basics, give them more money.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Draco TB</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31927</link>
		<dc:creator>Draco TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31927</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Draco, are you suggesting process workers quit their jobs and set up their own mini factories in their back yards?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
No, they would still work at the same place and for the same people but they would take care of their own taxes, ACC levies etc. When they do this work related expenses become tax deductible which they aren&#039;t ATM for the average worker.

My nephew is a builder. He contracts his labour out and does his own (well, he has an accountant) taxes etc. Recently he has had to go on wages for the first time in his life and it&#039;s &lt;i&gt;costing him more.&lt;/i&gt; He cannot save anywhere near as much as he was when he was a contractor.

My advice to workers - get off wages and go on contract. Get a good accountant. I happen to think that the unions, to remain relevant, need to help their members do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Draco, are you suggesting process workers quit their jobs and set up their own mini factories in their back yards?</p></blockquote>
<p>No, they would still work at the same place and for the same people but they would take care of their own taxes, ACC levies etc. When they do this work related expenses become tax deductible which they aren&#8217;t ATM for the average worker.</p>
<p>My nephew is a builder. He contracts his labour out and does his own (well, he has an accountant) taxes etc. Recently he has had to go on wages for the first time in his life and it&#8217;s <i>costing him more.</i> He cannot save anywhere near as much as he was when he was a contractor.</p>
<p>My advice to workers &#8211; get off wages and go on contract. Get a good accountant. I happen to think that the unions, to remain relevant, need to help their members do this.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DS</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31849</link>
		<dc:creator>DS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31849</guid>
		<description>&quot;I say NZ-grown fruit and veges should be tax-free.&quot;

While I can understand the sentiment, such a loophole would put us down the road to an Australian-style GST mess (you will get disputes over what counts as NZ-grown, and what counts as fruit and veges). Removing GST on food completely would be easier, but you would still get grey areas (pet food, for instance?). 

The way to deal with GST is either cut it back to 10%, or scrap it entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I say NZ-grown fruit and veges should be tax-free.&#8221;</p>
<p>While I can understand the sentiment, such a loophole would put us down the road to an Australian-style GST mess (you will get disputes over what counts as NZ-grown, and what counts as fruit and veges). Removing GST on food completely would be easier, but you would still get grey areas (pet food, for instance?). </p>
<p>The way to deal with GST is either cut it back to 10%, or scrap it entirely.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ari</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31755</link>
		<dc:creator>Ari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31755</guid>
		<description>Removing GST on food isn&#039;t so much regressive as simply &quot;not progressive&quot;. It removes the most regressive element of GST, but it still doesn&#039;t take away the fact that the wealthy will buy more food and thus get a larger tax break.

Personally, I think GST is better gone altogether, as expense taxes are terrible to manage and inherently regressive in some form or another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Removing GST on food isn&#8217;t so much regressive as simply &#8220;not progressive&#8221;. It removes the most regressive element of GST, but it still doesn&#8217;t take away the fact that the wealthy will buy more food and thus get a larger tax break.</p>
<p>Personally, I think GST is better gone altogether, as expense taxes are terrible to manage and inherently regressive in some form or another.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: roger nome</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31740</link>
		<dc:creator>roger nome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31740</guid>
		<description>I say NZ-grown fruit and veges should be tax-free. That would make us healthier, and would boost our food-security (i.e. what would we do, if for some reason our food imports were cut off? About half of our food is currently imported - in such an event many may starve).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I say NZ-grown fruit and veges should be tax-free. That would make us healthier, and would boost our food-security (i.e. what would we do, if for some reason our food imports were cut off? About half of our food is currently imported &#8211; in such an event many may starve).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matthew Pilott</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31736</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Pilott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31736</guid>
		<description>Phil - that rings a few bells.  In that case, I&#039;d say it&#039;s more regressive - if we&#039;re looking at the &#039;here and now&#039; of families struggling to pay bills, as opposed to the earnings life cycle of the individual.

It&#039;s pretty vague in its regressive/progressive nature - these terms only fit well with income taxes, not those on expenditure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil &#8211; that rings a few bells.  In that case, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s more regressive &#8211; if we&#8217;re looking at the &#8216;here and now&#8217; of families struggling to pay bills, as opposed to the earnings life cycle of the individual.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s pretty vague in its regressive/progressive nature &#8211; these terms only fit well with income taxes, not those on expenditure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31732</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31732</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Somebody selling their labour to move money doesn&#039;t. This is, IMO, a fairly serious discrepancy. This is just one example.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Adding GST to debt like credit cards and mortgages would go down really well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Somebody selling their labour to move money doesn&#8217;t. This is, IMO, a fairly serious discrepancy. This is just one example.</p></blockquote>
<p>Adding GST to debt like credit cards and mortgages would go down really well&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31719</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31719</guid>
		<description>Actually economic theory changes it&#039;s tune somewhere between second and third year university on GST as a regressive tax.

Basic economic theory say&#039;s its regressive - those who can save (ie; NOT spend) pay less of their total income to GST. However, once you add in time horizons and stuff like drawing down savings (where you&#039;re spending more than you&#039;re earning in retirement) it balances out and we all end up paying pretty much the same rate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually economic theory changes it&#8217;s tune somewhere between second and third year university on GST as a regressive tax.</p>
<p>Basic economic theory say&#8217;s its regressive &#8211; those who can save (ie; NOT spend) pay less of their total income to GST. However, once you add in time horizons and stuff like drawing down savings (where you&#8217;re spending more than you&#8217;re earning in retirement) it balances out and we all end up paying pretty much the same rate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Pierson</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/7-reasons-why-cutting-gst-on-food-will-not-help-damn/comment-page-1/#comment-31716</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Pierson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1797#comment-31716</guid>
		<description>GST is a regressive tax, so no GST on food would not be regressive, it would lessen the tax burden more for the poor, and since the poor spend more of their income on food focussing on food alone would be more progressive - but it would be the rich who benefit most in dollar terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GST is a regressive tax, so no GST on food would not be regressive, it would lessen the tax burden more for the poor, and since the poor spend more of their income on food focussing on food alone would be more progressive &#8211; but it would be the rich who benefit most in dollar terms.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Object Caching 561/563 objects using apc

Served from: thestandard.org.nz @ 2012-05-27 08:17:20 -->
