Open mike 18/09/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:40 am, September 18th, 2014 - 382 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

382 comments on “Open mike 18/09/2014 ”

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  1. mickysavage 1
    18 September 2014 at 6:44 am

    Where are those Jason Ede stories?

    • Tracey 1.1
      18 September 2014 at 7:09 am

      Sunday Herald and SST 😉

      • phillip ure 1.1.1
        18 September 2014 at 7:36 am

        just why the smiley-face..?

        ..what is funny about the corporate-media covering this up..?

        ..and once again we have to ask you..

        ..what is yr ‘point’..?

        • Tracey 1.1.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 9:12 am

          sigh

          First it is a winking face.

          who is “we”

          Seems brian got my point (below)

          • phillip ure 1.1.1.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 9:47 am

            still unclear..cd u humour my feeble-brain..

            ..and u say what yr ‘point’ was..?

            • Tracey 1.1.1.1.1.1
              18 September 2014 at 9:51 am

              who is “we”

              • phillip ure …
                18 September 2014 at 10:17 am

                ‘we’ are all the people who have asked you ‘what is yr point?’..

                ..and are you again unable to answer that one..?

                ..thus proving how often it is you are ‘point’-less..?

                • Tracey …
                  18 September 2014 at 10:29 am

                  I’m sorry …..Phil !?!?, was I not… clear enough for… you…

                  All this cos I had the audacity to hold you to your past proclamations?

                  Hopefully this will be clear…

                  Take your endless string of periods and FUCK OFF.

            • The Al1en 1.1.1.1.1.2
              18 September 2014 at 9:52 am

              Come up with some slighting sexist put downs like you did with the Breakfast TV girl yesterday, or go full on with the misogynist woman bullier routine you’re seemingly fond of – That’ll always work in your favour when you’ve lost on the finer points of debate. 🙄

              • phillip ure …
                18 September 2014 at 10:19 am

                heh..!

                “..slighting sexist put downs..” + ‘the Breakfast TV girl ‘..

                  • Pasupial …
                    18 September 2014 at 11:14 am

                    T Allen

                    PU is calling you a hypocrite for using a slighting sexist put down in the process of accusing him of employing; “slighting sexist put downs”. His style is very idiosyncratic, but he does have a point.

                    I don’t watch Breakfast TV myself, but I’m pretty sure that my wife would have mentioned if they’d started using pre-pubescant females as host/ anchors.

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 September 2014 at 11:18 am

                      Since when does “the breakfast TV girl” get considered a sexist put down?
                      And I mean by anyone with a grasp on reality who isn’t backing up an odd bod ally on the internet?

                      Compare with…
                      “.she got in a couple of fringe-flicks..and lotsa giggles..and blushes..i half-expected her to rip her bodice open..and to offer herself up to key..)”

                    • phillip ure …
                      18 September 2014 at 11:31 am

                      go and watch the video..

                      ..she did ‘fringe-flick’..she did ‘giggle’..she did ‘blush’..

                      ..it was a shocker of an interview..

                      ..the bodice-ripping was my creative-addition..

                      ..but i was definitely following the theme..

                      ..(and you haven’t read what i say about some men..?..)

                    • phillip ure …
                      18 September 2014 at 11:38 am

                      @ allen..

                      ‘Since when does “the breakfast TV girl” get considered a sexist put down?’..

                      wow..!..just ‘wow!’..

                      ..you’ve seriously stuck yr (unreconstructed-male) flag in the sand with that one..eh..?

                      ..are you about 50 yrs old..?

                      ..you talk like a 50 yr old unreconstructed male..

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 September 2014 at 12:06 pm

                      “@ allen..”

                      That’s The Al1en to you 😉

                      ‘Since when does “the breakfast TV girl” get considered a sexist put down?’..

                      “wow..!..just ‘wow!’….you’ve seriously stuck yr (unreconstructed-male) flag in the sand with that one..eh..?..are you about 50 yrs old..?..you talk like a 50 yr old unreconstructed male..”

                      Am I old? Yes.
                      Is the term “the breakfast TV girl” a slighting sexist put down? Of course it isn’t.

                      You find faux offence at the term ‘girl’ yet repeat your sexist attack on the Breakfast presenter.
                      Fact is she may not be a top rate heavyweight political journo. No shame there, she’s in good company here in NZ, yet I don’t see you writing how Gower or Soper looked as if they were about rip off their shorts to expose their manhood like groupies.

                      Your lack of respect for women is your issue, but don’t tar me with the same brush. I’m all good with regards to my pro active feminism.

                    • phillip ure …
                      18 September 2014 at 12:17 pm

                      i have actually previously alluded to gower and key ‘coming together’..

                      ..’cos they seemed so close..

                      ..but don’t let that fact get in the way of yr bullshit…eh..?

                      ..”..I’m all good with regards to my pro active feminism…”

                      ..do ‘the girls’ all agree with your generous self-assesment..?

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 September 2014 at 12:28 pm

                      “..do ‘the girls’ all agree with your generous self-assesment..?”

                      Bearing in mind I’m never going to win a popularity contest, I mean everyone hates the bloke who’s always right, right? But I’m happy to put it to the vote as I reckon I’m in credit not debit on this issue.

                      “i have actually previously alluded to gower and key ‘coming together’..
                      ..’cos they seemed so close..”

                      Did you say, like the ‘woman’ on the breakfast show, they were going to expose themselves like a groupie would? I doubt you did, but if you meant to and didn’t, that’s all okay then? ‘Cause at least you’re fair. 🙄
                      That neither diminishes your sexism nor excuses it, in my opinion, of course.

                      “..but don’t let that fact get in the way of yr bullshit…eh..?”

                      A bonus Irony chuckle on this gloomy Thursday. Thanks for that.

                    • phillip ure …
                      18 September 2014 at 4:11 pm

                      from memory i alluded to fellatio..

                      ..and wondered aloud if they had consummated their relationship..

                      ..on one of their overseas-trips together..

                      ..so..wrong again..eh..?

                      ..well done for consistancy tho’..eh..?

                    • Tom Jackson …
                      18 September 2014 at 4:59 pm

                      Hey look. Two bald men fighting over a comb…

                      FWIW my wife used to refer to Jack Tame as “the boy” when he was on the news.

      • brian 1.1.2
        18 September 2014 at 9:02 am

        If they turn up on the SST and Sunday Herald the day AFTER the election, my face will be red.

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1
          18 September 2014 at 9:40 am

          I think that must be exactly what Tracey is hoping for lol

          • Tracey 1.1.2.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 10:12 am

            chhuckle

            To be honest I don’t know what the ede emails are people have referred to? Are they different to the ones referred to in Hager’s book?

            For whatever reason I guess the media have decided it’s a non story – shrugs –

            • phillip ure 1.1.2.1.1.1
              18 September 2014 at 10:21 am

              ah..!..opining on something you ‘ don’t know’..

              ..it must be just another ‘point’-less day..

              ..one ending in a ‘y’..

              ..do you just like the sound of yr keyboard-clacking..?

              ..and have you thought of trying talkback-radio..?

              ..they are usually pretty relaxed about ‘point’-less callers..

              ..they just need/want the ‘clacking’..

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2
      18 September 2014 at 8:28 am

      Super duper injunction?

    • brian 1.3
      18 September 2014 at 9:01 am

      Yeah. Where’s Wally?

    • JanMeyer 1.4
      18 September 2014 at 10:47 am

      You want yet more diversion? Are you seriously saying you would want the next two days to be about Jason Ede (assuming there are explosive emails that the “MSM” has decided not to publish as part of some “VRWC”?). Hasn’t it been clearly demonstrated through this campaign that the focus on Dirty Politics … and Kim Dotcom … and spying … has been a voter turn off and has had the effect of starving Labour and Cunliffe of the oxygen critical to effectively communicate what is a coherent and potentially vote winning policy platform.

      • mickysavage 1.4.1
        18 September 2014 at 11:45 am

        Actually I don’t. I agree that dot com has been a huge distraction and I would have preferred if Dirty Politics had been published earlier. But there is a story here and I am interested in why it has not been printed.

        • Bill 1.4.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 12:02 pm

          There is no tranche of Ede emails.

          His predominant mode of communication was by phone. A few gmail accounts that could be traced to him were used during conversations about the Labour Party computer. Also as stated in the book, he used so many temporary facebook accounts that Slater didn’t know what his facebook account was.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.4.1.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 3:23 pm

            Right, and the fact that someone in the PM’s office has multiple facebook accounts etc. isn’t a story because…?

      • Tracey 1.4.2
        19 September 2014 at 8:07 am

        Somthing saw Nats support drop in IPSOS Poll from 54% two weeks ago (after Collins was resigned) to 47% yesterday… 7% isn’t meaningful?

  2. AsleepWhileWalking 2
    18 September 2014 at 6:47 am

    After the widespread surveillance claims I think Key has broken the record for the most lies told in the lead up to an election. Still a couple of days to go…

  3. Harriet 3
    18 September 2014 at 7:04 am

    Don’t you go and worry about that AsleepWhileWalking, as us Christians are less than a week away from sorting that sinner out.

    We’ll be wading knee deep in blood by the time we’ve finished. And we’ll cut down anyone defending him.

    • Vaughan Little 3.1
      18 September 2014 at 8:12 am

      Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Is what us Christians have been told to do.

      If it’s political violence you want, I hear they’re giving away pretty grunty weaponry over in Iraq.

    • Rosie 3.2
      18 September 2014 at 9:11 am

      Goodness. That was violent.

    • phillip ure 3.3
      18 September 2014 at 9:49 am

      “..We’ll be wading knee deep in blood by the time we’ve finished. And we’ll cut down anyone defending him…”

      old-skool christianity..eh..?

      ..kill the unbelievers..!

      ..would you too prefer be-headings..there..?

      ..you person of god..you..

      ..or wd you dig out the crusades handbook..?

      ..sure to be some good dealing-to-infidels-in-creative-ways ideas in there..eh..?

      • The Al1en 3.3.1
        18 September 2014 at 9:57 am

        You were only the other week advocating armed struggle as the only way to get the nats out.
        Apart from being extremely silly, what difference do you see between “We’ll be wading knee deep in blood by the time we’ve finished” and what you wrote?
        Just because the team changes, crass and stupid is still crass and stupid, but I guess you know that, though maybe you don’t, yet.

        • phillip ure 3.3.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 10:14 am

          “..You were only the other week advocating armed struggle as the only way to get the nats out..”

          you lying piece of crap..

          ..i have often noted how lucky we are to have our ‘revolution’-option at the ballot-box..

          ..unlike most other countries..

          ..i repeat..you lying sack of shit..

    • minarch 3.4
      18 September 2014 at 11:45 am

      “We’ll be wading knee deep in blood by the time we’ve finished. And we’ll cut down anyone defending him.”

      jeez thats a bit “old testament” isnt it ?

      or is it the koran your reading ?

  4. Tracey 4
    18 September 2014 at 7:14 am

    How odd that National waits until 3 days from the election to decide to reduce beneficiairies by 25%. And all these new jobs, how exciting.

  5. Raa 5
    18 September 2014 at 7:14 am

    It seems we face a probable Key victory with an increasingly bored and disengaged Prime Minister wishing he was .. anywhere else, really – Hawa’ii, Omaha, London, or Parnell. Perhaps Sydney or Singapore ..

    http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/f6a1cc01/roy-morgan-poll-shows-nats-extending-lead-labour-greens-fading.html

    There is unprecedented foreign interference in this election –

    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8907133/australian-liberals-weigh-into-nz-election
    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/australian-liberals-weigh-into-nz-election/story-e6frfku9-1227061187532

    .. with even Tony Abbott’s party weighing in. Does his kiwi wife make him a voter ? Does it justify the expense of accommodating Federal Departments under canvas for a week in some godforsaken waterhole ?

    With friends like these, who needs enemies ?

    • tc 5.1
      18 September 2014 at 7:29 am

      As expected, CT clients the oz liberals chime in right on cue, last week reinhardts fairfax had a jk puff piece .

    • Raa 5.2
      18 September 2014 at 7:29 am

      .. it might make sense in the context of of a Koch brothers backed Romney presidency, given current US levels of debt.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 5.3
      18 September 2014 at 7:35 am

      WTF? Must mean some kind of scheme cooked up in the background that won’t eventuate unless National is in full control.

      • Raa 5.3.1
        18 September 2014 at 8:12 am

        They tried at the last election but were beaten by David Axelrod, Obama’s chief political strategist.

        For what it’s worth, Fred Koch, founder of the John Birch society, reported in a 1938 letter after an extensive trip that he found New Zealand “violently socialistic”.

        Schulman, Daniel. (2014). ‘Sons of Wichita. How the Koch brothers became America’s most powerful and private dynasty.’ Grand Central Publishing, Hachette.
        pages 42, 283, 324.

        http://wcl.govt.nz/carlweb/jsp/FullRecord?databaseID=2540&record=1&controlNumber=1134364

    • Draco T Bastard 5.4
      18 September 2014 at 11:06 am

      I’m ignoring the polls. Their all over the place which, IMO, just shows their inadequacy.

      • yeshe 5.4.1
        18 September 2014 at 2:23 pm

        with you, draco. can’t be read.

        (and you know, if the rumour of 17 Nat MPs being made to ‘disappear’ with $300K each, total $5,00,000, what price a small poll or three ? just saying .. no proof at all, but just saying.)

        (let’s remember 1984 ….. the way Muldoon’s ego defeated Muldoon )

        • yeshe 5.4.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 2:35 pm

          oops, 15 not 17. And this by MickySavage — a prescient re-read in today’s climate and what we now know ..

          http://thestandard.org.nz/tau-henare-and-the-baubles-of-retirement/

          “Key’s reputation as a smiling assassin is well deserved. National has or will lose 15 MPs who served this term. And there has been little or any sign of public dissent. It makes you wonder what is occurring to persuade so many MPs to give up the baubles of office.

          And lefties should be very afraid about the calibre of the likely replacements. As commented recently by Felix

          Anyone who won’t have the stomach for the extreme right-wing blitzkrieg the central committee has planned for the third term is out, and will be replaced by obedient, subservient little Randian ideologues and proto-fascists who owe their entire career to the leadership.

          National is transforming into ACT on steroids.

          If anyone on the left need a reason to get involved in their party of choice this is it.”

          • Tracey 5.4.1.1.1
            19 September 2014 at 8:10 am

            you only have to look to Goldsmith in Epsom. He is, to all intents and purposes, in the wrong Party. He is too the very right of the Nats from all I have heard and read.

    • alwyn 5.5
      18 September 2014 at 11:50 am

      Perhaps you could remind us what is “unprecedented” about it?

      Is your memory so bad that you can’t even remember the Australian Labour Party leader attending and speaking at the New Zealand Labour Party conference about two months ago?

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11288595

      That is rather more “interference” than this is wouldn’t you say?

  6. Tracey 6
    18 September 2014 at 7:17 am

    Do we need to stop subsiding this school with taxpayer money?

    “A new $17 million health and fitness centre at private Epsom girls’ school St Cuthbert’s College opens today.

    Principal Lynda Reid said the Centre for Wellbeing housed a 25m swimming pool with moveable floor, learners’ pool, fitness centre and 250-seat spectator gallery.

    …The school hopes to generate an income out of the new centre, designed by Architectus.”

    • tc 6.1
      18 September 2014 at 7:24 am

      Perish the thought, that would mean cancellation of at least one trip or outing and perhaps scaling back the ball no no no no how would they cope.

    • BLiP 6.2
      18 September 2014 at 9:08 am

      ‘

      Sign of the times, I’m afraid. Kings College, baby-sitter to the progeny of Auckland’s capitalist elites’ and the most expensive private school in the country had its government grants increased by 40 percent between 2009 and 2011 . All that extra money-for-nothing didn’t stop Kings College from having another suckle on the tax payers tit when it came to getting its grubby hands on the lion’s share of money set aside for students with special needs. The John Key led National Ltd™ kept its middle finger firmly extended to struggling public schools in last year’s budget when granting an extra $35 million to private schools nation wide.

      Still, at least our kids get some toast in mornings, eh? Thanks, John Key, you’re all heart.

    • Tom Jackson 6.3
      18 September 2014 at 5:05 pm

      That’s a very expensive stripper pole.

  7. ExStatic 7
    18 September 2014 at 7:22 am

    What a strange world we are in this election. Harre, a fierce unionist working for and defending an employer that abuses and rips off his lowly paid staff and Whaleoil and TV3 fighting on their behalf.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1
      18 September 2014 at 7:24 am

      🙄

      Sideshow. Ignore.

      • ExStatic 7.1.1
        18 September 2014 at 7:33 am

        All lies then. Workers under/not paid, worked over 16 hours per day. Large percentages of pay with held. Vindictively withholding employment certificates so the can’t get a job back in the Phillipines, forcing them to call him “sir” while calling them by their first names, losing temper, threatening and intimidating………..normally enough to bring out the most mild union organizer, just not here, not now.
        Sellout.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 8:13 am

          😆

          Who set up the employment court in the first place? Do politicians have influence over its decisions? Who will strengthen employment and other human rights protections? Who will undermine them?

          Now fuck off, tr*ll.

        • Raa 7.1.1.2
          18 September 2014 at 8:21 am

          Thanks. I gave up on tv some time ago. Is there a youtube link somewhere ?

        • David 7.1.1.3
          18 September 2014 at 9:19 am

          I have to weigh in here, I have a good friend who works at the .com mansion, and if her facebook feed is anything to go by, I have to call bullshit on you buddy.

          • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.3.1
            18 September 2014 at 11:21 am

            Now that’s interesting.

          • Tracey 7.1.1.3.2
            19 September 2014 at 8:12 am

            My sister-in-law used to clean up there with her daughter. Always paid on time always spoken to with courtesy.

            How did these folks get work visas to be butlers etc, surely there were unemployed kiwis who could do those jobs?

    • Raa 7.2
      18 September 2014 at 7:25 am

      Please explain ..

      • ExStatic 7.2.1
        18 September 2014 at 7:30 am

        3degrees onTV3 last night. Dotcom’s treatment of his Filipino staff exposed. Just shows how far Labour has fallen as the worker’s party that they are not taking this up too. Harre proved as being a total sell out.
        Don’t wait for the usual defenders of workers rights to say anything about it here though.

          • ExStatic 7.2.1.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 7:34 am

            Look at the video.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 7.2.1.1.1.1
              18 September 2014 at 7:40 am

              I got the gist of it from the article.

              I also noticed that you are arguing in bad faith, desperately trying to smear the left with lies.

              Had breakfast? Choke on it.

              • ExStatic …
                18 September 2014 at 7:47 am

                You prove my point. Normally you would be one of the first to attack this behavior, now you want to excuse it and sweep under the carpet.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  18 September 2014 at 7:51 am

                  Now you have to demonstrate that it occurred in the first place, you lying tr*ll. Your source is backing away from the allegations as fast as they can.

        • Tracey 7.2.1.2
          18 September 2014 at 7:54 am

          If DotCom has treated staff this way it absolutely needs a full DOL investigation, as do any other such instances.

          Did Whaleoil have a position of the fisheries slavery allegations?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 7.2.1.2.1
            18 September 2014 at 7:57 am

            The DOL will discover that the malicious and illegal actions of the New Zealand government at the behest of the FBI, destroyed the business that was paying these wages.

            • The Al1en 7.2.1.2.1.1
              18 September 2014 at 8:00 am

              Though to be fair, kdc did have a few spare million up his sleeve to start the mip alliance. He could have shelled out any time to pay off creditors had he wanted to.

              • AsleepWhileWalking …
                18 September 2014 at 8:05 am

                Maybe in the wisdom of a multi millionaire he thought he was being played? I don’t know seems premature to conclude anything about him and it is suspiciously close to an election…

                Rushing to conclusions is always a mistake, made worse just prior to making a major decision.

                • Tracey …
                  18 September 2014 at 8:07 am

                  funny how the right arent complaining about the timing the way they complained about snowden and greenwald.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    18 September 2014 at 11:23 am

                    The political-right only complain about such things when it’s them in the sights with their pants down.

                • The Al1en …
                  18 September 2014 at 8:08 am

                  Yeah, vote kim, he’s not really a rich prick nugget who shits on his staff like lots of other rich pricks do.

                  • brian …
                    18 September 2014 at 9:15 am

                    I must have missed something. Is there a candidate named Kim?

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 September 2014 at 9:36 am

                      Weak effort, but have a look in his pocket if you don’t believe me. There’s one or two tucked away for later use, though that looks more and more unlikely, thank goodness, as ttt is too close to call.

                      Still polling at half the weirdo conservatives level should give the numbers some context.
                      Not the big game changer some thought it would be, aye, but then 1.5% to 2% in the polls is a great return on 3mil, apparently.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                18 September 2014 at 8:08 am

                He says they’ve been paid in full, although these particular ones are demanding too much. I note he’s reemployed quite a few of them.

              • yeshe …
                18 September 2014 at 10:20 am

                @The Allen … untrue. his money was frozen for many months. check facts sometimes.

                • The Al1en …
                  18 September 2014 at 10:33 am

                  Defend him if you have to, but he had plenty of time to pay the creditors.
                  I believe 60k per month allowance before he got wedged up fully enough to fund prospective parliamentary candidates and the mip alliance.

                  • yeshe …
                    18 September 2014 at 10:42 am

                    KDC doesn’t need me to defend him, even from your venom. You just post some stuff that simply isn’t true.

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 September 2014 at 10:43 am

                      He had an allowance of around 50k + a month before getting a lump of cash.
                      What and where is the lie?

                      And for the record, pointing out the error in bullshit supposition isn’t venom.

                      It should also be pointed out that he only back paid his debtors when the story broke about how he owed working kiwis.

                    • yeshe …
                      18 September 2014 at 10:47 am

                      and exactly how long after the raid was that ? and correct your own stuff .. are you proposing 60K or 50K ? ( are you john key ?)

                    • phillip ure …
                      18 September 2014 at 10:47 am

                      @ yeshe..

                      “..You just post some stuff that simply isn’t true..”

                      ..that happens often..

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 September 2014 at 10:55 am

                      11:17 22/03/2012
                      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6619000/Kim-Dotcoms-60k-allowance

                      “are you john key ?”

                      As far from that as I am a kdc sycophant.

                    • yeshe …
                      18 September 2014 at 3:21 pm

                      that link makes plain the truth that KDC had no access to any money whatsoever from time of the raid on January 20 until end of March when the court cleared some funds to him.

                      please don’t believe all the spin you read or write. you will get dizzy and that won’t be good.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      18 September 2014 at 3:26 pm

                      He’s a clown and a sideshow, 2014’s Owen Glenn.

                      Are we supposed to just ignore human rights violations when they occur to wealthy successful clowns?

                    • Tracey …
                      19 September 2014 at 8:14 am

                      IF he owes anyone any money, they ought to have been paid by now. As is pointed out he was given an allowance and a lump sum. I am NOT saying he owes anyone (before Phil jumps in with his period frenzy) just that the frozen money excuse ended a while ago.

        • anker 7.2.1.3
          18 September 2014 at 11:04 am

          YOu will have to vote Labour then if you are as concerned as you say about Dot com’s workers.

          Labour will increase minimum wages and strengthen employment law so people such as Dot.com’s workers and indeed all workers are protected. Thank you so much for your concern about exploited workers and your follow up action (because you care, don’t you?) of voting Labour

          • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1.3.1
            18 September 2014 at 11:26 am

            Labour will increase minimum wages and strengthen employment law so people such as Dot.com’s workers and indeed all workers are protected.

            And so will IMP.

            • Colonial Viper 7.2.1.3.1.1
              18 September 2014 at 11:55 am

              National’s co-opted media smear machine still runs pretty smoothly, all things considered.

              • Hanswurst …
                18 September 2014 at 9:13 pm

                Of course it does. The media smear machine runs independently of National (as well as running in cahoots with it, when it suits them). Even if National magically disappeared off the face of the Earth, the MSM would still be cheerleading for them and imploring us to vote for them.

        • Rodel 7.2.1.4
          18 September 2014 at 7:18 pm

          Exs
          Dottycom does something bad and it’s Labour’s fault.
          WTF are you on? Sure aint logic.

    • CC 7.3
      18 September 2014 at 8:07 am

      Some people can’t smell a Whale Oil smear job at two paces eh? Seems 3rd Degree are still shackled to discredited ways of doing journalism. Note how they appear to have been happy to act on dubious accusations from Wayne Temporo that would have been provided via his new best friend Cameron Slater, to smear KDC. Most telling was the change of tone when the interviewer was asked to consider the timing of the Philippines interviews and the lodging of papers in the Court. The only positive was that the ‘target’ was given the opportunity to comment on the dubious information the accusations were based on.

    • Paul 7.4
      18 September 2014 at 6:20 pm

      People who use whaleoil as a source clearly need our sympathies.

  8. One Anonymous Bloke 8
    18 September 2014 at 7:23 am

    Listening to Espiner interviewing Winston.

    Like trying to cut water 😆

    “Guyon, are you ok?” 😀

    • Paul 8.1
      18 September 2014 at 7:24 am

      Great to see someone telling the media where to get off.
      “Guyon, are you o.k.? ”
      “Who do you think you are. Get a grip on yourself.”

      Such a pity Cunliffe doesn’t speak to Hosking in the same manner.
      The media really is pathetic.

      • weka 8.1.1
        18 September 2014 at 10:37 am

        Seriously?

        I know there is this whole let’s hate Guyon no matter what he does thing on ts, but in that interview Espiner was asking completely reasonable and pertinent questions about NZF’s position on working in or supporting a govt that includes the GP, and Peters was being an arsehole. I also thought he sounded unclear and a bit thrown at times, so good on Espiner.

        Peters was an out and out bully, even eventually trotting out the classic bully line that he himself was being bullied. He’s a fucking disgrace, both in his behaviour and in his politics. His avowed stance that NZF never talks pre-election about coalition negotiations is bullshit. As Epsiner rightly pointed out multiple times, and questioned, NZF has ruled out some parties already.

        Peters is a duplicitous, power-hungry, maniupative thug. Yes he’s very entertaining too, but let’s hope we’re still laughing after Sat (or the next few weeks).

        As for telling the media where to get off, yes they have a huge amount to answer for, but we have to be careful here to not condemn them when they are doing their job well. Espiner asked the right questions and persevered when Peters equivocated and obfuscated.

        • Saarbo 8.1.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 11:11 am

          @weka

          Agree.

          I actually quite enjoy Espiner these days, turning into a morning version of Mary.

        • Clemgeopin 8.1.1.2
          18 September 2014 at 11:36 am

          You are wrong on so many counts.

          Winston Peters does NOT have to tell the media or any one which main party he will support after the election. He may, if he chooses, but does not have to do so. If people are not concerned either way, they will vote for him. If they are, they won’t. If people like him or his policies, they will vote for him anyway. In fact, I put it to you that the position Peters has taken is the correct and the best position that every party should in fact take rather than try to manipulate the voters by saying they would support this party or that after the election. Why second guess before the voters have exercised their own vote based on party’s main personalities and main policies. If a party does not get 50% plus on their own, then it is time to negotiate policies and positions to try to form a coalition. What if NZF gets 50% plus on their own?

          If he joins Labour coalition, he will bring in more pragmatism,common sense and curtail any silly or extremist policies from it or from its other coalition partners. With Winston in the mix, he will improve the longer survival of the progressive government for two, three or more terms so that many more economic, social and environmental programmes can be put in place.

          If he joins National, he will stop National from their and other partner parties’ excessive extremist policies too.

          In my opinion, Labour is the best of all the parties overall in candidates and policies and needs all the party votes it can get to be much stronger than indicated by the media polls so far. If the polls had indicated Labour was 33% plus, I would happily consider voting IMP.

          • weka 8.1.1.2.1
            18 September 2014 at 12:08 pm

            I didn’t say Peters had to say anything. I said Espiner was right to call him out for being a hypocrite.

            Peters seems incapable of answering some pretty easy straight forward questions without being a bully. Go Winston.

            “Why second guess before the voters have exercised their own vote based on party’s main personalities and main policies”

            No-one is suggesting second guessing, you just made that up. Peters has ruled out some of the parties he won’t work with, so why not be honest about those which he *might work with. That doesn’t commit NZF to anything. The reason he doens’t want to do that is because he is hedging his bets. Every election he manipulates the media and the public. We will see a big change in MMP culture once Peters retires. I have no problem with NZF as a party, it’s Peters that is the problem.

            • weka 8.1.1.2.1.1
              18 September 2014 at 2:50 pm

              Danyl Mclauchlan ‏@danylmc 7 hrs
              Here’s to three long years of Peters as a senior Minister telling everyone who asks him anything that they’re an idiot and a liar #sigh

              • weka …
                18 September 2014 at 5:38 pm

                Winston “we won’t say what we will do, we will let the people decide” Peters, making himself even more of a hypocrite by endorsing Kelvin Davis. And in the most disingenuous way. Kelvin is best, nothing to do with hobbling Mana.

                http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11327170

              • Murray Olsen …
                18 September 2014 at 11:09 pm

                Winnie reminds of when the old records used to get stuck and play the same 12 seconds of music over and over. It’s always the same thing since the Winebox – Winnie hinting at stuff that never turns out to be anything remarkable. I’ll be glad when he’s gone.

              • Tracey …
                19 September 2014 at 8:17 am

                Kind of how Joyce does now…

                Guyon didnt reign Joyce in but Joyce makes it very hard to do it…. He just keeps going, doesnt stop and eventually guyon stops talking first.

                IF Nats win and Key goes at some point I wonder if Joyce will step up. He can spin the lies far better than key, just has to stop trying to stop himself laughing at how easy it is though

    • brian 8.2
      18 September 2014 at 9:22 am

      Guyon has been getting bouquets for the way he has been conducting his interviews with other politicians such as Key. Including from me.

      But today Guyon just went over the top. He went from hero to zero. I would much rather have heard a summary of the policies that Winston is going to push.

      WInston won totally. He will be seen to be standing up to a bully, and seen to be tough. And in NZ, unfortunately, that seems to be more important than policy for most of the voting public. WInston really is a clever politician, regardless of how much you like or dislike him politically.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.1
        18 September 2014 at 9:23 am

        He sounds short of breath.

      • Lanthanide 8.2.2
        18 September 2014 at 9:53 am

        Oh come on. Those are perfectly rational and sane questions that other politicians are prepared to answer. Winston is being a precious little daisy, claiming that he knows what the public does and doesn’t want to know and therefore what questions he will and won’t answer.

        Actually I would have liked if he had just answered Guyon’s questions, but he refused.

        Frankly I’m surprised Guyon didn’t just cut him off and end the interview.

        • brian 8.2.2.1
          18 September 2014 at 10:34 am

          Yes perfectly reasonable and sane. But there is a limit. Especially as the question was not a matter of huge importance. And it’s Winston’s strategy, and right to say that he will not answer anything until after the election. There will be people like yourself who would have liked to know, but there are probably more people who will actually vote for Winnie, who admire his style. Especially when he seems to have found himself in the box seat this election.

          What the public wants to know. Here Winston was right. What was the basis for Guyon saying the “public want to know”? Zilch. I’m tired of anybody (interviewers or politicians) using this line. Usually it’s the politicians: ‘I’ve travelled from Auckland to Taumaranui to Wellington to Hokitika, and therefore I can claim to know what the public are concerned about on 987 policies’

          • weka 8.2.2.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 10:41 am

            “And it’s Winston’s strategy, and right to say that he will not answer anything until after the election.”

            And it’s Espiner’s job and right to call him out in being a hypocrite, which is what he was doing.

            Then there was all that bullshit at the start where Peters refused to answer the question until he had the upper hand in the interview. He’s manipulative and a bully. If people want to vote for that, that’s fine, but it’s also fine that the rest of us get reminded of what an arsehole is going to be choosing the next govt.

        • brian 8.2.2.2
          18 September 2014 at 10:38 am

          ….and WInston being a “precious daisy”? The most unlikely analogy for Winston that I’ve ever heard. He may be full of outdated ideas, but he knows precisely what he is doing. Cunning, wily, and clever . He will not receive my vote.

      • greywarbler 8.2.3
        18 September 2014 at 11:32 pm

        @ brian 8.2
        Agree

    • AsleepWhileWalking 8.3
      18 September 2014 at 11:18 am

      !! Fuck that was funny. And sooo Winston.
      Espiner did well to squeeze anything out of him.

  9. Tracey 9
    18 September 2014 at 7:26 am

    BLiP can probably add this to his key “lies”

    “Key said that a big regret was that there had not been a chance to have discussions on core issues such as health, education, and the environment. “

    • dv 9.1
      18 September 2014 at 8:13 am

      Yep, I thought that a reply could have been, well we could have another 30 min now if you like.

    • BLiP 9.2
      18 September 2014 at 9:16 am

      ‘

      Heh! Thing is, it probably was a regret because, chances are, National Ltd™ wasted big bucks employing a crew of spinners to come up with a slew of lies, funny money, and dodgy statistics to show what a wonderful job it had been doing in those areas. It was money Steven Joyce could have put towards the costs which will be awared for stealing Eminiem’s tune.

  10. millsy 10
    18 September 2014 at 7:28 am

    The left are heading for a right pasting this Saturday. Lets face it. Internet-Mana has shot its bolt, the Greens have hit a ceiling and Labour is screwed. The only one to benefit from this whole dirty politics saga is Winston Peters, who has done enough to get his party back to parliament. We should all be worried about the Conservatives, who represent the dark, repressive NZ, the NZ that were willing to pelt women and children with bottles so they could watch a rugby match, and who think that having gay teens kill themselves, and turfing girls onto the street becasuse they get pregnant to the wrong boy is perfectly acceptable. Garth McVicar and Christine Rankin’s attempt to turn this country into 1930’s Virginia should be resisted by every progressive New Zealander. And of course, there is ACT.

    I hope after the election Labour doesnt cave into the Jonesites and starts lurching to the right, and remember – Norman Kirk lost 2 elections and Nash the same amount before winning. I hope the Paganist faction thinks about that before dumping him.

    • Tracey 10.1
      18 September 2014 at 7:56 am

      IF you are right and IF IPSOS is right, ACT may die too…

      I don’t think labour really knows who it stands for anymore.

      • yeshe 10.1.1
        18 September 2014 at 9:09 am

        The wise and august ( or maybe it should be September!) jamie whyte was quoted yesterday as saying thepolling by main Akld Chinese newspaper had Act at 20%.

        That is a little scary.

        • Tracey 10.1.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 9:16 am

          do they mean amongst the Chinese reading population? I guess it depends on what number of that demographic are voting

        • Lanthanide 10.1.1.2
          18 September 2014 at 9:55 am

          Not surprising, given that Act are actively campaigning for the Chinese vote in a way that no other party is.

          • Tracey 10.1.1.2.1
            18 September 2014 at 10:15 am

            On the corner of St Lukes Rd and Sandringham Road her ein Auckland ( a main commuting route within the city) the ACT billboard is in a Chinese language except for a small bit under the chaps face which says, in english “vote act”

            I am not commenting on their right to do that just saying it is not a billboard designed to attract non chinese language reading voters.

          • yeshe 10.1.1.2.2
            18 September 2014 at 10:29 am

            their deputy is Chinese and yes, I agree with you Lanth.

      • brian 10.1.2
        18 September 2014 at 9:28 am

        Labour and National do not present a vision in the same way that most of the minor parties do. Being big is no excuse for not knowing who you stand for.

    • Te Reo Putake 10.2
      18 September 2014 at 8:01 am

      And yet the left looks likely to lead the next Government. Funny old world you live in, Millsy.

    • Ad 10.3
      18 September 2014 at 8:17 am

      See you on Monday Millsy.

  11. phillip ure 11
    18 September 2014 at 7:43 am

    the corporate-media should hire cunnliffe to do their hatchet-jobs on harawira..

    ..he does a better job than they do..

    ..imagine if cunnliffe gets what he wants..

    ..and then stares down defeat..?

    ..a defeat that the internet/mana mp’s would have turned into a victory..

    ..cunnliffe is front-runner for tactical-fuck-up-award for this election campaign..

    • The Al1en 11.1
      18 September 2014 at 7:52 am

      Bless 😆

      You crying on here is almost as sad as hone crying to the herald about forces conspiring to force him out of ttt.
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11326642

      It’s called tactical voting, and it’s often used to unseat an unpopular mp or stop a vapid candidate from gaining ascendancy – Just like being done and advocated for months in Epsom by many, if not all on here.

      You and he sound a little goldsmith/seymour about it all. Shame 🙂

      Go on Kelvin.

      • Pasupial 11.1.1
        18 September 2014 at 11:04 am

        TAllen

        From your NZH link (seeing as there’s already a full days reading online and it’s not even noon):

        “So the fight for this seat has just become the kind I really like, which is us against the rest. I’m upset about it, because it’s tough enough in Parliament on your own. I take it also as a bit of a compliment.”… Mr Harawira was asked to justify his alliance with Kim Dotcom.

        “The question for me was, ‘How do I get more Mana MPs into Parliament?”‘ Mr Harawira said. “I really hope Annette Sykes will win Waiariki, but if she doesn’t, she’s still going to come into Parliament.”… “It’s hard enough being a radical MP and activist, more difficult when you’re on your own, and it would be nice to have at least a couple of mates.”

        Sounds more like buckling-down and getting on with the job at hand, than; “crying… about forces conspiring to force him out”.

    • Ad 11.2
      18 September 2014 at 8:20 am

      Still weeping into the capacious billionaire’s ample bosom are we?

      From straight out of the parable of the man who sold his soul to the devil for straight cash, may Hone’s tears run dry…

    • Hanswurst 11.3
      18 September 2014 at 9:29 pm

      I disagree. It is well within the realms of possibility that Cunliffe would love Harawira to get over the line on Saturday. There is absolutely no way in hell, however, that Labour would do anything other than shed votes if Cunliffe came out and supported him. Labour has everything to gain in the long term and in terms of votes right now by attacking National for its tactical voting shenanigans. Engaging in tactical endorsements itself would put Labour in danger of losing its support – and not necessarily only to the Greens or Mana. Specifically endorsing Harawira, or even giving a hint of going soft on him, would give Key two big, shiny sticks to beat Labour with (tactical voting and association with Internet/Mana).

      Whichever wa you cut it, endorsing Harawira is a large risk without much hope of gain, since a comparatively strong Labour vote with no Mana MPs leaves the Left bloc largely the same as a weaker Labour vote with a couple of electorate MPs from Mana. Conversely, if Mana get over the line without Labour’s endorsement, Labour can have its cake and eat it, too, with a strong Labour vote and a coup.e of Mana MPs gib
      ving support on confidence and supply. They can even sign a Memorandum of Understanding should they so wish, since the Nats’ claiming that that implies political allegiance between Mana and Labour would face the question of whether their previous MoU with the Greens meant that they were affiliated with the Greens, a party which they have consistently described as far-left loonies.

      • Chooky 11.3.1
        18 September 2014 at 10:37 pm

        @ Hanswurst…are you sure your arguments are not a tad too sophisticated for the average punter?…..At very least Cunliffe could come out and say Harawira is a fantastic candidate and may the best person win!…( nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

        ( who cares about Key and ” two big, shiny sticks to beat Labour with” …this is war and Key has used everything…fair and foul …especially foul dirty tricks …. to beat Cunliffe and Labour already)…Cunliffe and Labour by taking the tack they are taking against ManaINT just makes them look mean… and stupid imo.

        • Hanswurst 11.3.1.1
          19 September 2014 at 10:23 am

          Yes, it does make them look mean and stupid – to those of us who are to their left. However, that doesn’t hurt them, because we vote to change the government anyway. However, that doesn’t mean that it is a stupid thing to do. For voters who are not inclined to look too probingly at the issues, “Labour-Green-NZFirst” is a fairly simple proposition, whereas headlines reading “Five-headed hydra looms as Cunliffe endorses Mana” with the subhead “Harawira a ‘fantastic candidate’, Labour leader says” would play into exactly the narrative that National and the Herald want to weave. I don’t like it at all, but I simply can’t reach any other conclusion. Cunliffe doesn’t have a good option when it comes to presenting his position on Internet/Mana.

      • adam 11.3.2
        18 September 2014 at 11:01 pm

        So open warfare with the left after the election and not before is the labour mantra Hanswurst? Or is this the same old, same old from labour? Not like labour exactly have a pristine record on their treatment of other left wing parties.

        • Hanswurst 11.3.2.1
          19 September 2014 at 10:33 am

          I have no idea what you are talking about. I didn’t refer to any mantra, Labour or otherwise. Nor did I say that Labour would be more hostile to the Left after the election than before – the opposite, in fact. Their electoral positioning has less to do with “the left” than to do with more nebulous ideas of branding. I don’t really feel inclined to reply in any more depth to a comment that seems to be constructed in slogans concerning how Labour is not a left-wing party (at least as a parliamentary entity) and has a history of screwing its working-class supporters (that is fairly well known).

    • Chooky 11.4
      18 September 2014 at 10:20 pm

      +100 phillip…have to agree with you on this one….not a good look!

      ….and my teenage son is outraged against Cunliffe and Labour….he was almost going to Party vote Labour too, ironically enough …or Winnie ( but Winnie committed the same crime)

      ….so the Greens got his vote instead ( i am not sure what his reason was for not voting IntMana…probably too much Sean Plunkett commercial radio propaganda against Dotcom) …but the Greens gotta win sometimes…and they were the lucky recipient from this particular spat)

  12. Harriet 12
    18 September 2014 at 7:44 am

    “…..the NZ that were willing to pelt women and children with bottles so they could watch a rugby match, and who think that having gay teens kill themselves, and turfing girls onto the street becasuse they get pregnant to the wrong boy is perfectly acceptable…….”

    Christians in NZ did not ever do that!! The people who did that when NZ was ‘mostly’ Christian – were mostly the non-christians.
    What do you actually think the likes of the Salvation Army aand Anglicare do?

    • ExStatic 12.1
      18 September 2014 at 7:49 am

      The Christian churches were at the forefront of the anti tour movement.

    • The Al1en 12.2
      18 September 2014 at 7:54 am

      Christians, contrary to ordained advice, often throw the first stones, why do you think they wouldn’t throw beer bottles?

    • Tracey 12.3
      18 September 2014 at 7:57 am

      What do you mean by “Christians”, exactly?

      • Harriet 12.3.1
        18 September 2014 at 8:23 am

        No Christians thought their kids killing themselves was perfectly acceptable – those funerals were shunned so that teenagers did not see it as acceptable. However today in NZ kids have facebook pages dedicated to people who have done so. And the media pays attention to that in the affirmitive. Suicide rates are very high – ain’t that so?

        Turfing girls onto the streets was not the done thing by Christians either. Unless the Christian adoption agencies are a figment of my imagination.

        Drunk Christian husbands who belted their wives and kids were generaly sorted out by their families, friends and Churchs. Generaly their drinking came to attention and no violence then occured.What was lacking back then was police training and techniques, and laws against family violence – that resulted in some non-Christian famlies suffering the worst violence – and also due to lack of connection to charitable[christian] services.

        • Tracey 12.3.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 9:17 am

          so, what do you mean when you say christians? I’m trying to ascertain who you have in mind when you use that word

        • phillip ure 12.3.1.2
          18 September 2014 at 10:40 am

          @ harriet..and her rose-coloured glasses view of the past..

          “..Turfing girls onto the streets was not the done thing by Christians either..”

          no..they were ‘sent up the country’..instead.. eh..?

          ‘..Drunk Christian husbands who belted their wives and kids were generaly sorted out by their families, friends and Churchs…’

          oh really..?

          ..now you know that is just total bullshit..

          ..’giving the missus a crack’..was almost biblically advocated..

          ..and ‘belting the kid’..was done by most parents/teachers etc..

          ..i was an exception from my/those times..in that my parents did not hit me when i was a small child..(and i have never hit either of my now-adult children..patterns repeat..)

          ..(just why my parents were so advanced in that way..i still don’t know..)

        • adam 12.3.1.3
          18 September 2014 at 1:45 pm

          So Harriet as a Christian – you only have two choices to vote for this election. 1. The Maori party 2. Mana. Because they are the only parties which treat the gospels with any respect, they are the only parties which start and end meetings with pray, and they are the only parties who have large Christian memberships. The choice is yours Harriet – but I’d think on these issues too. you should read this before you vote.

          http://presbyterian.org.nz/speaking-out/resources-for-speaking-out/discussion-papers/gospel-manifesto-2014

    • Tracey 12.4
      18 September 2014 at 8:08 am

      didnt you state t

      “us Christians are less than a week away from sorting that sinner out.

      We’ll be wading knee deep in blood by the time we’ve finished. And we’ll cut down anyone defending him.”

      • Harriet 12.4.1
        18 September 2014 at 8:30 am

        Well I’ve got a sense of humour. Most Christians do have.

      • Vaughan Little 12.4.2
        18 September 2014 at 8:32 am

        could conceivably be a case of false flag trolling.

        i campaigned for grant robertson in 2011. one of the memorable things he said was “in the last 48 hours of an election campaign there is often more heat than light.” seems like you could extrapolate that to mean “don’t bother reading the comments on political blogs in the home stretch cos there’s gonna be some pretty awful stuff”

        • Raa 12.4.2.1
          18 September 2014 at 9:07 am

          Gentlefolk, please give Harriet a break.
          We should know the results in about a day .. (:-)

          • Tracey 12.4.2.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 9:19 am

            Just trying to ascertain who she means when she says “us Christians”? Is it everyone who believes jesus Christ rose from the dead or are there some groups who are more christian than others?

            • Harriet 12.4.2.1.1.1
              18 September 2014 at 9:35 am

              In the practical sense, those who went to Church most Sundays. Even if they stopped going later in life.
              A bit of ‘Christian living’ doesn’t hurt any child. It gives them reasonable grounding in history, human behaviour, and values.

              Christianity is infact, an education in and of itself.

              • Tracey …
                18 September 2014 at 9:44 am

                I don’t have a problem with people living a life to emulate the chap known as Jesus Christ.

                I was just trying to work out what you had in mind when you were saying Christian and not Christian.

                Was Jesus Christ ever violent to children, do you know? I mean are their parts of the Bible that describe him slapping a child in the head, or taking a belt to them and can you direct me to the circumstances of such violence?

                The clarifications are important because, for example, spare the rod spoil the child was not, to my knowledge uttered by Jesus Christos.

                “Christianity is infact, an education in and of itself.”

                This needs clarification though. What kind of education, based on what?

                • James Thrace …
                  18 September 2014 at 1:29 pm

                  The only thing I would credit Christianity for, in any way shape or form when linked to education, is the knowledge around morals and how to treat other humans. i.e. do unto others as you would see them unto you, gossip is the root of all evil, etc etc.

                  Everything else built up around a mythical water walker is just bunkum.

              • Tom Jackson …
                18 September 2014 at 5:16 pm

                If religious people were rational, there would be no religious people.

                • ianmac …
                  18 September 2014 at 5:24 pm

                  By son discovered that the word for “on” and the word for “by” is almost identical and during the translations “by the water” became “on the water.”
                  How such tiny words can change history!

              • tricledrown …
                18 September 2014 at 5:45 pm

                Harriet is that where you learnt racism and how to kick the poor when they are down then grind them into the ground !
                Remember Christ kicked the money changers out of the church now you are bringing them back in.
                Most of your posts go directly against Christian teachings
                ie greed is god!
                A rich man and his camel can get into heaven the poor have to suffer and go to hell!

                • Chooky …
                  18 September 2014 at 10:11 pm

                  Is this the same Harriet who supported the Israelis’ recent genocide slaughter against the Palestinians?…

              • Rodel …
                18 September 2014 at 7:42 pm

                “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
                But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
                ― Steven Weinberg

    • brian 12.5
      18 September 2014 at 9:40 am

      The label “Christian” invokes the very best of people and the very worst of people. I make a differentiation between

      (a) Christians like the Sallies and the support sections of other main churches such as the Catholic, Anglican and Presbyterian etc…..and

      (b) Other, more fundamentalist groups (and sometimes within the above churches) use the term Christian to justify bigotry: Racism, Sexism, Homophobia, and an emphasis on punishment; smacking, three strikes etc.

      Whether the Conservatives are Christian or not is less important to me than the type of “Great Leap Backward” policies they advocate, which appear to fall into the group (b) issues referred to above.

      • Tracey 12.5.1
        18 September 2014 at 9:47 am

        I just think it can be such a vacuous label.

        I mean if Craig’s party is “Christian” won’t all “Christians” vote for it. Of course not, cos Christian means different things to different people. Surely, as you say, tis better to set out the policies or behaviours one is talking about rather than a broad, relatively meaningless label.

        Just a thought.

        • left for dead 12.5.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 10:11 am

          I have always been very suspicious of anybody claiming to be (Christians)I know several,and I have never heard them describe them selfs as such.

          • Tracey 12.5.1.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 10:20 am

            I have a friend who has been a catholic nun all her adult life. She no longer wears a habit. Her choice because she doesnt want the attention or false respect (as she puts it) that can come with the uniform.

            She never speaks of herself as Christian or whatever.

            She is a kind and caring person. She works 80 hours a week and her pay (minimum wage) at an addiction group goes to the church. She is selfless, funny, occasionally bawdy.

            She is selfless and has given her life to be of service to others. She lives her life that way rather than talking about it. She not only makes no judgment of my lifestyle( my partner and I have been together for over 23 years) she is openly accepting of it.

            I dont think anyone needs to tell people what they are, be it christian or anything else. Just behave the way you wish people to perceive you.

            • Rodel 12.5.1.1.1.1
              19 September 2014 at 8:30 am

              Tracey- Well said. Your friend is simply a good person.
              She could be Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist etc. but no other ‘label’ is necessary.

  13. Ad 13
    18 September 2014 at 8:01 am

    Waitaki District Council loans $17 million to a local irrigation company.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/north-otago/316275/conditional-17m-council-loan-irrigation-company

    Can anyone imagine what Mr Joyce or National generally would be saying if they were propping up any other damaging industry? A mining company? A gaming software exporter? A used car dealership?

    What indeed does Act’s ex-Federated Farmers president have to say about this egregious capitalist favouritism?

    And why is a fairly poor Council like Waitaki spending it on this rather than say, oh, running a District’s roading, social housing, stormwater runoff, or children’s parks?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1
      18 September 2014 at 8:31 am

      Send in the taxpayers’ union.

      • vto 13.1.1
        18 September 2014 at 9:14 am

        All developed parts of rural NZ are basically full blown industrial zones. May as well be covered in concrete.

        I have given up on rural NZ and its ecosystems. It is barren and burnt of natural life. When returning from the back of beyond where life is virgin New Zealand I always find rural farming land ugly, barren and burnt.

        Virgin New Zealand is something spectacular, which I think very very few people experience or understand in its detail and fullness. People should go spend a decent period of time in these places – and just listen, look and sit quietly.

        As long as the development doesn’t spread into undeveloped areas – we must save what we have left.

      • phillip ure 13.1.2
        18 September 2014 at 10:02 am

        “..the taxpayers’ union…”

        ..mouldering up there on the shelf..of failed rightwing front-groups..

        ..alongside that ‘factcheck’ from that clown george..

    • weka 13.2
      18 September 2014 at 10:47 am

      “And why is a fairly poor Council like Waitaki spending it on this rather than say, oh, running a District’s roading, social housing, stormwater runoff, or children’s parks?”

      That would be the same council that built an Opera House at the same time as cutting funding to outlying recycling stations. Not to worry, country folk will just go back to throwing their rubbish in the ditches that line the road going up the valley, you can’t even see that shit when you are driving so all’s good.

  14. northshoreguynz 14
    18 September 2014 at 8:07 am

    My best guess
    Nats 42%
    Lab 30%
    Green 15%
    NZF 8%
    Cons 4%

    ITT wins TTT, but thats all.
    Maori Party, who cares.
    ACT wins Epsom, but only 1 seat
    Dunne looses Ohariu

    It’ll be a fun but anxious ride on Sunday and beyond.

    • Rosie 14.1
      18 September 2014 at 9:24 am

      Sounds entirely plausible.

    • Colonial Viper 14.2
      18 September 2014 at 9:36 am

      Your no.s are within 2% of where I would put them. But I think IMP remain a 3.5% to 4.0% proposition. Four to five MPs. Minto in Parliament, deservedly, and maybe Yong.

      • Lanthanide 14.2.1
        18 September 2014 at 9:56 am

        I really doubt that. I rate IMP around 2-2.5%. The non-bombshell on Monday really hurt them, as well as all of the other negative publicity they’ve had over the last 2 weeks or so.

        • Ant 14.2.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 10:04 am

          But did it hurt them with IMP voters or potential IMP voters? I’m not sure it did.

          Biggest risk to IMP is tactical voting by MP and National supporters up north.

          • weka 14.2.1.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 10:48 am

            Yeah, I can’t see many IMP voters caring too much about the Email thing. I doubt that’s why they’re voting IMP.

        • Tracey 14.2.1.2
          18 September 2014 at 10:21 am

          It did make Key declassify some documents to try and “prove” himself. I doubt he would have done that if he thought there was going to be no bombshell.

          I do agree that DotCom’s issues have been a huge distraction BUT who else was going to bring Greenwald and Snowden into our living rooms and shine the light on Key’s lies?

          • Colonial Viper 14.2.1.2.1
            18 September 2014 at 11:20 am

            Dotcom should have been used more sparingly, and taken much more of a back seat in the last couple of weeks.

          • Pasupial 14.2.1.2.2
            18 September 2014 at 11:26 am

            Tracey

            If Dotcom downplaying the email (so giving the Greenwald/ Snowden revelations more prominance) hadn’t been used as a distraction, I’m sure our press Fifth Cloumn (they’ve gone past being the Fourth Estate) could have come up with something else.

          • Chooky 14.2.1.2.3
            18 September 2014 at 10:59 pm

            Tracy @14.2.1.2 …agreed…..they have been a huge distraction!…nevertheless they brought into focus the huge questions of our time (courtesy of international heavyweights…Grenwald, Snowden, Assange and Amsterdam)

            …about the threat to DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS and SOVEREIGNTY facing New Zealand…. (and other countries)

            …. by dark surveillance powers used by spy agencies not under the control of their own democratically elected governments…and used for what ?….commercial advantage , sabotage, takeover?…corporate plundering of the planet?…increasing the power of the !% who own just about everything?…suppressing dissent?

            …we have a lot to thank Dotcom and his friends for …just that too many New Zealanders have not seen the implications of this mass intrusion human rights violation surveillance yet ….and its very real dangers of eventual fascism and totalitarianism

      • Anne 14.2.2
        18 September 2014 at 10:11 am

        Do you agree with me CV that if Labour doesn’t poll well enough to seek coalition deals, we can pretty much blame it on their CGT presentation and, to a lesser extent, the raising of the super age?

        Given Labour’s vastly superior policy packages overall to National, I can’t think of any other reason except perhaps a pinch of “dirty politics” thrown in. If I’m right then it further confirms for me my long held belief there is a sizable portion of the NZ Public who really should not vote because they only have the cognisance ability of a 5 year old.

        • Lanthanide 14.2.2.1
          18 September 2014 at 10:20 am

          Raising of the super age has barely been mentioned by anyone during the campaign. I think DP and spying has sucked the oxygen out of National’s attack strategy ’cause they’d trumpet this to the high hills otherwise I’m sure.

          Anyway, with Labour having to go into coalition with NZFirst, raising the retirement age seems unlikely to go ahead.

          • phillip ure 14.2.2.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 11:17 am

            “..Anyway, with Labour having to go into coalition with NZFirst, raising the retirement age seems unlikely to go ahead..”

            all of which just underlines the question:

            ..why the fuck did they do it in the first place..?

            ..why leach all that support..for a policy you will never get thru..?

            ..face-palming/braindead..

            ..every time parker came out and trumpeted this example of his neo-lib ideological-purity/vote-killer of a policy/idea…

            ..(should we call it user-pays for oldies..?..)

            ..after every trumpeting by parker..labour dropped further in the polls..duh!/doh!..

            ..i put that policy down as a major reason for labours’ slow spiral downwards in support..

        • Tracey 14.2.2.2
          18 September 2014 at 10:25 am

          Doesnt the drift from where ever to Conservatives suggest an impact of dirty politics? Although I cant see fromt he polls where that drift to conservs canhave come from Nats if IPSOS is saying Nats are at 54%.

          BAN FUCKING POLLS

        • Olwyn 14.2.2.3
          18 September 2014 at 10:45 am

          In this election all policy seems to have given way to something more like force: the force of corporate money and manipulation versus the force of the sober-minded, the outraged and the frightened. Going by the polls, the former seem to be winning, but the polls too have become part of the game rather than the score-keeper on the sidelines, as has the media.

          I wish middle NZ could see that the licence they have given to Key, presumably in exchange for inflicting austerity on the poor so that they don’t have to suffer it , is now available anyone whatsoever who comes after him. This is especially so if they continue to endorse him after all that has been revealed. I just hope that vast numbers of dissenters take them by surprise at the ballot box, but fear at the same time that they really have won, and that we are in for a very rough ride.

          • Cleangreen 14.2.2.3.1
            18 September 2014 at 4:46 pm

            Why the hell is everybody immersed in these phoney polls.

            We have placed the facts all over the standard & TDB that there are 1.5 million sites on Goggle that prove polls are manipulated globally!

            So why are you guys believing them? cause some are now saying “everybody knows Key will win”

            Who can tell us that??

            Only the count on Saturday will be able to prove that, and really what you all should be worried about is National rigging the results!!!!

            I would not put it past them as we see what else they are hiding from us right?

            All these phoney privately manipulated pols may be setting us up to believe those results are true when or if they do rig the results, so how are we sure they wont?

            • Tracey 14.2.2.3.1.1
              19 September 2014 at 8:19 am

              Because anyone who reads a newspaper or watches the news to learn about their political options just gets polls.

        • anker 14.2.2.4
          18 September 2014 at 11:19 am

          I think it is the msm and the Dong Liu letter smear (Whale Oil) and the msm.

          The Cunliffe Trust issue was a mistake, but it was a well intentioned decision. The msm ran with it for days and days and days and days and days. My recollection is Labour then went down in the polls.

          So too with the Dong Liu letter.

        • Colonial Viper 14.2.2.5
          18 September 2014 at 11:26 am

          Do you agree with me CV that if Labour doesn’t poll well enough to seek coalition deals, we can pretty much blame it on their CGT presentation and, to a lesser extent, the raising of the super age?

          Super age = 2% cost to Labour
          CGT = 2% cost to Labour
          Man ban/apology for being a man = 2% cost to Labour

          By rights, against this shit govt and all the unexpected headwinds Key has been struggling with, Labour should be in the opinion polls at 30% and coming in on the day at about 33%.

          But Labour has failed to push and build a strong, consistent narrative for its voters to hang on to and turn out for, so it will come in lower than it should.

          • Hanswurst 14.2.2.5.1
            18 September 2014 at 11:32 am

            Super age = 2% cost to Labour
            CGT = 2% cost to Labour
            Man ban/apology for being a man = 2% cost to Labour

            Aside from those 2% in each case looking a bit high, wouldn’t there be considerable overlap?

            • Colonial Viper 14.2.2.5.1.1
              18 September 2014 at 11:37 am

              1.5% per may be closer to the true figure. Yes there is overlap, but Labour is polling a full 5% to 10% lower than 11m-12m ago.

              If male support for Labour was as high as female support, Labour would get an instant 4% to 5% boost.

              Labour was polling mid to high 30% mark when Cunliffe took the Leadership under a year ago; Labour has drained in the polls since so there have been some major issues. Understanding precisely what they are is a big challenge though. Not saying things which the electorate wanted to hear, and saying things which dismayed the electorate, central.

              • alwyn …
                18 September 2014 at 12:02 pm

                If you look at the Roy Morgan Poll numbers, which is of course the only one that polls regularly, you see that Labour’s collapsing vote since Cunliffe became leader has been pretty steady at about 0.8%/month.
                Key may be sorry that he called the election for September, rather than late November. Labour would have been down another couple of percent by then and they would be sitting on 22%.
                It really does appear that the more people learnt about Cunliffe the more they despise him.

                • Tracey …
                  19 September 2014 at 8:22 am

                  I have two family members who, no BS described him the other day thusly

                  “You need a leader to represent us on the world stage how can a guy with such an ugly face do that for us”

                  and

                  “he looks like he has had a stroke, I mean that face!”

              • tricledrown …
                18 September 2014 at 12:11 pm

                CV the national party smear machine has been working overtime !
                Its all about winning at any cost!
                If Key and co hadn’t been caught with the Dirty politics They would probably be able to govern alone!
                Now everything is on a knife edge more left voters will turn out to vote!

                • blue leopard …
                  18 September 2014 at 12:32 pm

                  +1 tricledrown

                  Cunliffe made some errors, yet there have been terrifically severe and ongoing attacks toward him by the media occurring from the beginning of the year. I suspect people have had their views of Cunliffe influenced by these media attacks.

                  I have learned this year that NZ has a massive problem with a ‘school yard bullying’ culture, no wonder there are so many problems in schools with bullying – kids learn it from somewhere.

                  We really need to collectively lift our game.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    18 September 2014 at 1:19 pm

                    I have learned this year that NZ has a massive problem with a ‘school yard bullying’ culture,

                    Anyone who is old enough to remember “Rob’s Mob” will realise that that streak of NZ society is still present and strong as ever.

                    • blue leopard …
                      18 September 2014 at 1:43 pm

                      I would say it is worse because neoliberal tactics have cultivated it.

                      The only way such theories get supported is by dividing people against one another.

                      The politicians have cultivated division again, and again, and again since Muldoon’s time, in order to ‘win’ (power).

                      “Dog eat dog” and all that.

                      (Although I do remember him, I am too young to remember Muldoon’s mob as an adult.)

              • Hanswurst …
                18 September 2014 at 12:16 pm

                I’m inclined to believe that it was above all to do with having a leader with relatively low public recognition, for whom many people’s first impression would have been newspaper articles trumpeting that he had not mentioned a minor aspect of a policy that they largely hadn’t heard of yet, that he signed a letter in 2003 and that some fellow bought a bottle of wine at an auction, therefore Cunliffe should resign.

                That is a big reason why Cunliffe must stay on even if Labour loses on Saturday. Labour needs to go into the next election with a leader who is well-known, and has built up credibility with the voting public. That way, the inevitable smears from the media will be dismissed by many as at odds with what they have seen of him themselves. A new leader would have an uphill battle to develop that first of all and would probably still be at a disadvantage in that regard heading into the next election. Not all leaders get a flurry of puff pieces and no criticism like Key did when he took over the party leadership, but you can bet your bottom dollar that the next National leader will, and Cunliffe’s existing credibility will be a good counter to that.

              • Anne …
                18 September 2014 at 12:17 pm

                I think there is another more abscure fact that Labour – and to some extent the Greens – fail to take into consideration when it comes to developing policy. There is a large constituency out there who have a very narrow focus on the world and politics in particular. They will latch on to one or two details they perceive to be detrimental to themselves to the exclusion of all else. They are often wrong (eg. CGT), but because they make little or no attempt to seek out the facts they are vulnerable to misinformation and lies. National happily complies.

                Helen Clark is the only Labour leader in recent decades who understood the limitations of the average voter. She didn’t burden them with complex policy. She kept it simple and was then able to guide them during the intervening three years into accepting changes that may not have been fully signaled in advance. Provided the proposed ‘changes’ are in the country’s interest, that is the way to do it. I wish Labour would learn this very simple fact.

                • Lanthanide …
                  18 September 2014 at 12:59 pm

                  This x100.

                  I mentioned on her before that my bf said “Labour has no policy”, so I showed him their website and he was actually surprised by how much they had. He followed it with “they have too much policy, and clearly aren’t communicating the handful of really important policy ideas that they do have”.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  18 September 2014 at 1:23 pm

                  She kept it simple and was then able to guide them during the intervening three years into accepting changes that may not have been fully signaled in advance. Provided the proposed ‘changes’ are in the country’s interest, that is the way to do it. I wish Labour would learn this very simple fact.

                  Absolutely. It’s difficult in a party run by academics, intellectuals, pol sci grads and policy wonks. All determined to chase after the mythical middle class centre swing voter.

                  • JRT …
                    18 September 2014 at 4:31 pm

                    I was thinking about Helen Clark this morning, and the successful campaign Labour ran over those years. She promised a few very specific things that were likely to be popular, and followed through with them. It worked very well.

  15. philj 15
    18 September 2014 at 8:37 am

    Did I hear Key say (?) in last night’s debate(?) that The Greens had little policy in common with Labour? Another un truth pinokeyo?

    • ianmac 15.1
      18 September 2014 at 9:16 am

      He also said that the Greens said they were dumping Labour. That was the reporters slant not the Greens.

  16. Southern Man 16
    18 September 2014 at 8:40 am

    Regarding the TV3 exposé of KimDotCoDotNZ’s employment practices….

    Is this the first of a series? Can we expect to see similar interviews of John Key’s ex Merrill Lynch employees?

    • Hannahj 16.1
      18 September 2014 at 9:05 am

      The exposé seemed awfully timely. 3rd degree pulled out all the stops to get it in for the Wednesday show before the election.

      @Southern Man, would love to see those interviews..

    • ianmac 16.2
      18 September 2014 at 9:15 am

      Good point SM. I thought an expose of the Parata staff employment woes. Bullying, shouting, blaming and denying.

    • weka 16.3
      18 September 2014 at 9:41 am

      I think we’ve already had the one about the women that clean Key’s office.

  17. yeshe 17
    18 September 2014 at 9:27 am

    An example of our future under TPPA … we must never let this come to be.

    Involves surveillance of Yahoo customers’ private data, US Justice Dept, blackmailing Yahoo before attempting to bankrupt this huge public company .. judgement classified and sealed for 25 years .. then revealed into daylight by our hero Edward Snowden’s revelations !!! But not before Yahoo caved in; they had no option.

    From Washington Post so go to Herald link for whole story .. it’s remarkably more weird than most fiction. Un-effing-believable in fact.

    YAHOO THREATENED WITH TRILLION DOLLAR FINE OVER ACCESS TO USER DATA

    ‘For an illuminating glimpse of government power in action, it’s hard to beat the fines the US Justice Department threatened to level against Yahoo if it didn’t comply with a secret and sweeping surveillance request in 2008.

    News coverage of the case, for which documents were unsealed last week, reported the proposed fines as $250,000 a day. But there was also a clause that called for a doubling of the amount each week if Yahoo refused to comply. It was more than enough to bankrupt the company after just a few months. …….

    …… At the six-month mark, the relentlessly doubling fine would have equaled $117 trillion. Depending on the calculation you use, the fine would have exceeded the total dollar value of the entire Earth (including economic assets and the physical value of the planet itself) in either the eighth or ninth month.

    At the end of the year, the total would have been $7.9 sextillion. That’s equal to a stack of $100 bills so high that it would go back and forth to the sun 28,769 times (if that many $100 bills actually existed).

    As a publicly traded company, Yahoo would have been required by federal securities law to report substantial government fines to its shareholders – something that would have been difficult to do, given that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court classified the order and the court case.

    The government motion requesting the fine called for it to be declassified in 2033 – 25 years later. The controversy sparked by the disclosures by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden prompted an accelerated effort to declassify the case, which is what led to last week’s release of more than 1,500 documents from the legal struggle.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11326405

  18. One Anonymous Bloke 18
    18 September 2014 at 9:31 am

    It’s nice to see Cray-Cray getting some attention. What’s this about his press secretary quitting?

  19. Colonial Viper 19
    18 September 2014 at 9:33 am

    A hundred OM comments by 0935 hrs. What is this election week or something.

    • weka 19.1
      18 September 2014 at 9:42 am

      So what’s everyone doing on Sat?

      • Lanthanide 19.1.1
        18 September 2014 at 9:59 am

        Bookarama fair.

      • Tracey 19.1.2
        18 September 2014 at 10:26 am

        Walking the dogs, preparing my house for an Open Home and trying to stay warm and dry…

        You?

        • weka 19.1.2.1
          18 September 2014 at 10:51 am

          Waiting to see what the weather is like. I haven’t voted yet, so will probably go trad and vote on Sat, then if it’s cold will most likely spend the day online 😉 If it’s nice I’ll go out for the afternoon and be back for the evening. Been trying to figure out if I should find a tv for the night or not bother.

          • Tracey 19.1.2.1.1
            19 September 2014 at 8:26 am

            We wont watch the coverage closely. We will flick channels from time to time…

            I’ve voted.

            One of my brothers sent me a text yesterday jokingly urging me to vote National for a stable government.

            I replied I had done by bit and voted for Goldsmith.

      • Pasupial 19.1.3
        18 September 2014 at 11:53 am

        Weka

        I’ll be scrutineering on election day. It’s a boring job, but better than relying on the Dirty Politics crew not to try pull a fast one – by attempting to have those who are likely to go against their interests vote’s disallowed. Caging lists are a popular technique in past US elections, so anyone who might look too; young, poor, female, or non-european, might be better advised to cast an advance vote, so as to avoid challenge by a malign scrutineer or infiltrated RW official.

        There’ll be a TV down at your favoured Party’s election party (and likely people there will be mockingly analysing the pundits analysis, which can be fun in a group). So it might be worth while giving them a call and seeing where that’ll be.

      • Macro 19.1.4
        18 September 2014 at 4:37 pm

        Travelling from Vancouver to Toronto 🙂

  21. yeshe 21
    18 September 2014 at 9:47 am

    another filthy Herald headline about Kim Dotcom on a story that is really a video game review. is there no level too low for them as attack dogs ?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11326253

  22. Clemgeopin 22
    18 September 2014 at 10:08 am

    Why hasn’t Key resigned?

  23. David Hallimore 23
    18 September 2014 at 10:10 am

    What is disappointing about this blog in the past few weeks is it has focused on John Key and what he has done wrong etc and very little substance on what Labour offers.

    I think it would be more proactive if left blogs left the hate speech for the right (Slater) and focus purely on the positive.

    NZers do not buy into the smear campaigns brought about by “Dirty Politics” and “The Moment of Truth” I personally believe any swing voters out there will be swayed by the policy not “We hate John Key so lets vote for change”

    Policy is what builds a better NZ not people.

    • aerobubble 23.1
      18 September 2014 at 11:39 am

      People who need Key to lose will do what? Cunliffe is a turn off, so they vote for the Labour candidate, and then choose Cunliffe? No, maybe they choose the Greens or NZF. Now why would Cunliffe want that. Well if you vote Labour in the electorate and Labour on the list, Then when the counting takes place, and the first Labour MP is already elected nothing happens, yet if you Labour MP is and you voted say Green, then something crazy happens, a Green MP gets a seat.

      You see you get twice. Payback twice, split vote. Labour wants to be a weak llist party and that actually may get Labour-Greens over the line. On polling Labour aren’t going to do it on their own.

      So is there a reason why Cunliffe muddles. Yes.

      And the long term consequences if we all start split voting? Well the value of single MP parties is lost. Dunne, Banks, Anderson, all had massive of power because they were single MPs and most people votes Lab-Lab or Nat-Nat. That all changes. And since these single MPs could attract right wing money, diminishing them means there is less influence from the big money right hopefully.

  25. travellerev 25
    18 September 2014 at 10:40 am

    War Monger Alert: Terror raids carried out across Sydney making Tony Abbott happy. What about John Key? Are we next? http://fb.me/6ZoiCnjGu

  26. AsleepWhileWalking 26
    18 September 2014 at 11:31 am

    Oh nos….
    Colin Craig has just had his press secretary resign calling him “a manipulative man”. And here we all thought he was just weird.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10513520/Colin-Craigs-media-manager-quits

  27. Hanswurst 27
    18 September 2014 at 12:19 pm

    I think that if Key utters the phrase, “I think people/New Zealanders will see it for what it is” even once more, people/New Zealanders will collectively throw up.

  28. ianmac 28
    18 September 2014 at 12:20 pm

    Re Spying. This letter to John Key is incredibly detailed and dead serious. (Has it already been discussed?)
    …”Set out below are several questions that I believe the public of New Zealand would like to have answered. Please consider these questions to be submitted pursuant to the Official Information Act 1982. I note that you have been quoted by media as saying that when your reputation is questioned you consider it appropriate to declassify and release previously classified documents.
    Therefore should any of these requests be refused in a manner that is inconsistent with your recent decision to declassify documents the matter will be referred to the Office of the Ombudsman citing your declassification decision as precedent……..”
    Daniel Ayers
    Special Tactics Limited:
    http://wikisend.com/download/172780/Letter%20Rt%20Hon%20John%20Key%20re%20Mass%20Surveillance%20and%20NSA%20In%20NZ.pdf
    In this letter he details the evidence that Key says repeatedly, doesn’t exist.
    (HT Russell Brown on Public Address.)

  29. Outofbed 29
    18 September 2014 at 12:28 pm

    Christian Coalition 1996 polling 6.7% received 4.4 ..Leader went into hiding
    Conservatives 2014 polling 4.9%

  30. infused 30
    18 September 2014 at 12:29 pm

    No post on Kim.com and his staff today?

  31. McFlock 31
    18 September 2014 at 12:31 pm

    Well, this will probably get lost in all the election stuff, but a beneficiary friend has an interesting problem that, if I understand it correctly, affects thousands of people: they had their wallet lost/stolen, so need emergency assistance from msd. Apparently they have to show ID to be let in the door?

    How does someone without ID get assistance these days?

    • The Al1en 31.1
      18 September 2014 at 12:52 pm

      i wouldn’t think they’d be able to. They would have to rely on the goodness of the case manager to open their file and verify their details. Maybe there’s a procedure already in place?

      Someone would surely have to phone ird and get the number attached to their address and flick winz a mail to confirm. Wouldn’t be quick though.
      Not acceptable if you have no money for food and there are children going hungry.

    • weka 31.2
      18 September 2014 at 1:44 pm

      If they’re already a beneficiary, they should phone the call centre and ask for their local office and see if they will be let in without an ID. Apparently it varies from office to office. Don’t ask the call centre, insist on being put through to the local office they want to get to, and get a name from the person that tells them they will or won’t be let in. Tell them upfront the ID has been lost/stolen. They won’t be the first bene in this situation, so WINZ should have a process by now.

      Better yet, if they already have something in process with WINZ, ask to speak to the case manager involved, or email them. Pretty much everything can be done by phone/email, including getting emergency assistance. They will have to do some hoop jumping though (emailing proof of bank balance etc).

      If they don’t have a phone or internet, I’d go to either an advocy service or the local leftie MP (am assuming they’re in the same town as you).

      If they need immediate assistance, eg food today or tomorrow, then I’d go hard directly with WINZ. If they need something within a week, I’d suggest it would be way easier to try and replace the ID and avoid having to deal with WINZ altogether.

      The ID on the door policy is fucked up, and I doubt it would be applied to too many other govt departments.

      • McFlock 31.2.1
        18 September 2014 at 3:51 pm

        cheers for that, weka.

        Seems to me that it’s a cunning plan to cut the number of beneficiaries – just don’t let them in the damned door in the first place. 🙁

        • Potato 31.2.1.1
          19 September 2014 at 12:03 am

          @McFlock I’d be interested to hear how your friend got on in the end. A few years back I was helping a young man who was living rough and had lost his ID. At that time I helped him out to get a copy of his birth certificate so he had some ID but dealing with WINZ has become a more challenging experience since then.

  32. Tigger 32
    18 September 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Piece on inequality in Hamilton, compares a poor and rich street.

    i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/10511908/The-haves-and-have-nots-a-tale-of-two-streets

    The poor street is: ”
    It’s tough. The colour of your hoodie will start a fight. Big mamas and bros sit smoking on steps, dogs bark from behind tatty fences – the kind you don’t put a hand out to. Residents stop talking and watch if an unknown car drives by.”

    The rich street is: River Oaks is behind security gates. “It’s home to taxpayers and retired taxpayers”

    So poor people don’t pay GST? They’re taxpayers, just like the rest.

    • yeshe 33.1
      18 September 2014 at 1:06 pm

      indeed phillip .. both ‘on’ and ‘of’ the money. what a bloody tragedy for NZ isn’t he ?

    • Chooky 33.2
      18 September 2014 at 1:35 pm

      actually in the last debate I though Key looked like a cooked goose…no more Mr Aggressive Winner but more Mr Bewildered nice guy ….reckon he is already planning his flight to Hawaii…

      • JRT 33.2.1
        18 September 2014 at 4:34 pm

        Yeah, I almost felt sorry for him. Almost. Such a smiling assassin, open and innocent grin no matter what he has been up to.

  34. blue leopard 34
    18 September 2014 at 1:32 pm

    Here is a link to the AUDIO of the press conference conducted after the Moment of Truth.

    (Don’t know whether this has been linked to before or not)

    Just when I had started to think that our media were lifting their game, this audio shows that our press chose to use the 20 minutes they had with Greenwald, Amsterdam, Harre & Dotcom to ask the same question again, and again and again, after it had already been answered.

    One experienced member of our press eventually snapped out of this and instead decided to try and discuss with the international guests, why New Zealanders should listen to foreigners and accusing these guests of ‘damaging our democratic process’ by the way they have come here to inform us all. 😯

    Have the members of our media no intelligence… or shame?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Moment_of_Truth_Press_Conference.ogg

    • Chooky 34.1
      18 September 2014 at 2:10 pm

      +100 blue leopard…”Have the members of our media no intelligence… or shame?”

      • greywarbler 34.1.1
        18 September 2014 at 3:02 pm

        Our media have all watched far too much of Homer in the Simpsons. Remember the trip with Apu to the Kwik-E-Mart guru high in the Himalayas.

        The President of the Kwik-E-Mart: Welcome, my friends. You may ask any three questions.

        Homer: Are you really the head of the Kwik-E-Mart?
        The Kwik-E-Mart President: Yes.

        Homer: Really?
        The Kwik-E-Mart President: Yes.

        Homer: Really?
        The Kwik-E-Mart President: Yes. Thank you, come again.

    • ianmac 34.2
      18 September 2014 at 2:32 pm

      Weird alright. “Paddy get your priorities right!”
      Oh so true!

      • blue leopard 34.2.1
        18 September 2014 at 3:26 pm

        I do give some kudos to Paddy for playing the full clip of what Dotcom said to him.

        That Paddy did (I assume it was Paddies choice), is what made me go looking for the whole press conference. I was curious as to what drove Dotcom to say it.

    • Colonial Viper 34.3
      18 September 2014 at 2:39 pm

      It seems our press has an inability or unwillingness to formulate questions that actually matter.

      • blue leopard 34.3.1
        18 September 2014 at 3:20 pm

        Agree, can’t help puzzling which one of the two it is.

        The above audio makes me lean toward ….um….both

  36. emergency mike 36
    18 September 2014 at 1:56 pm

    Andrea Vance

    “Over and over, Key aligned Cunliffe with Kim Dotcom. Clever, because the German tech mogul and his fake email about a deal with Hollywood bosses have polarised people this week.”

    Whoa, was the email proven to be fake and I missed it?

    • yeshe 36.1
      18 September 2014 at 2:06 pm

      I don’t think so. Vance being Vance suckered into following Key’s line.

      • weka 36.1.1
        18 September 2014 at 2:22 pm

        some people, including many MSM, were pissed off that the email wasn’t focussed on on Monday night. It was meant to be the big reveal and they’re all cross because they didn’t get their big drama.

        • emergency mike 36.1.1.1
          18 September 2014 at 2:39 pm

          Ah I see, so Andrea Vance has a mini-tanty and throws journalistic integrity out the window instead of talking about the much bigger and more important reveal that they WERE given on Monday night.

          Kind of odd from the same author as this article entitled Moment of truth’- do believe the hype. In it she focuses on Snowden’s contribution to the evening, and is unconvinced by the documents that Key has released.

          • yeshe 36.1.1.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 2:51 pm

            confusing, isn’t it ??

            • yeshe 36.1.1.1.1.1
              18 September 2014 at 3:05 pm

              maybe she just made a mistake … she has seemed to be understanding of the broader significances of Monday’s moments.

          • greywarbler 36.1.1.1.2
            18 September 2014 at 6:39 pm

            It was just as well for Kiwi public that the visiting investigative reporter was not a woman. Our media would have been sidetracked further from the main issue, indeed some seeing a critique of the female appearance and presentation as a main issue.

            Always useful for sidestepping the facts of the real story is commenting on her hair style, makeup, or lack of it, whether her clothes were appropriate for the occasion and showed some unique international style. I think that this would be likely from many newshounds, with the consequent waste of precious column space for new dispatches from the 21st century’s playing arenas.

        • Draco T Bastard 36.1.1.2
          18 September 2014 at 5:05 pm

          They did get a big drama – they just didn’t like it as it showed Key as the liar he is.

    • Undecided 36.2
      18 September 2014 at 3:05 pm

      Key denied knowledge (no surprise), the guy from Warners said it was a fake and Dotcom wouldn’t answer questions on it or offer any evidence to back it up so its probably not 100% accurate

      • yeshe 36.2.1
        18 September 2014 at 3:12 pm

        The reported reason for his silence is his lawyers advised Dotcom to say nothing. It is evidence in his extradition hearing; Paul Davison QC mentioned it outside Akld High Court on Monday.

        The rest is just more spin from National’s washing machine.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 36.2.2
        18 September 2014 at 3:45 pm

        Undecided, my every instinct screams at me that this is a fake email (too convenient – who writes like that ffs?), and the fact remains that the accused parties’ denial is precisely what they’d do if it were genuine, nor have we any information as to its provenance.

        As I’ve already stated, I expect the courts to order Dotcom’s extradition despite the manifest illegality and bad faith exhibited by the FBI and crown.

        The official record of “political pressure” picked a medium-sized hole in my confidence level, and the judge may yet order that further material be released that goes to the question. I doubt we’ll get to see it though.

        Meanwhile, the case has opened up various aspects of illegal government activities. The right is baying for his blood on the basis of tribal loyalty, and I think any government that, listening to them, perverts justice to attack its political rivals deserves open insurrection, never mind a few movie downloads.

        Get it into your head – the government’s treatment of this clown is not justified by you or I not liking him.

        • blue leopard 36.2.2.1
          18 September 2014 at 4:08 pm

          The thought that goes through my head is, if it was a fake, wouldn’t they have made just a little more attempt to make it look more like a normal email?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 36.2.2.1.1
            18 September 2014 at 4:20 pm

            It occurred to me that the Hollywood script might include the good guys planting the email so that the bad guy would lose credibility by relying on it, and by that point I’d rather just throw them all in a very deep hole and set sharp strict High Court judges on the lot of them.

            Key, Ede, Dotcom, the FBI, Slater, Lusk, Collins, Odgers and Uncle Tom Cobbley: they all need Judge Roughneck.

            • blue leopard 36.2.2.1.1.1
              18 September 2014 at 4:36 pm

              hmm yes that is a plausible theory.

              …but why would Dotcom believe the email when it looks so dodgy? One has to assume he has had it checked out, he has classy lawyers working for him too, remember.

          • McFlock 36.2.2.1.2
            18 September 2014 at 4:27 pm

            you mean like added fake metadata? 🙂

            My personal estimate is that unless somebody discloses server logs, comes clean as the pa or BCC’d recipient who forwarded the email to kdc’s team (or the teenager who produced the fake document), or accidentally makes a slip of the tongue, it simply reinforces what people already believe – either way.

            But based on past reputation, it’s probably legit.

  37. weka 37
    18 September 2014 at 2:16 pm

    Emmerson,

    “Hold your nerve agent Key, only 3 more sleeps to go”

    https://twitter.com/SamaraMcDowell/status/512315301925773312/photo/1

  38. yeshe 38
    18 September 2014 at 3:09 pm

    Key overruled by Ombudsperson on who released OIA to Slater … fair sheets it home to where it belongs …

    Felix Marwick @felixmarwick · 2h
    PM’s former Deputy Chief of Staff Phil De Joux received the SIS briefing regarding the Slater OIA. Ombudsmen have ruled there be disclosure

    and this …..

    Felix Marwick @felixmarwick · 1h
    Goff says ID of PM’s ex- Deputy chief of staff as receiving SIS briefing on OIA release to Slater is evidence there was a leak to WhaleOil

  39. joe90 39
    18 September 2014 at 3:13 pm

    Reading about the alleged Sydney beheading plot and the killing of Palmira Silva in London seems to be a popular reference so I had a wee look .

    This is not an “isolated incident”. She is the third woman to have been beheaded in London in less than six months. On the 3 June 2014, Tahira Ahmed, 38, was decapitated. Her husband, Naveed Ahmed, 41, was charged with her murder. In April 2014, Judith Nibbs, 60, was decapitated, allegedly by her estranged husband Demsey Nibbs, 67.

    Last year, in June, Reema Ramzan, 18, was decapitated by boyfriend, Aras Hussain, 21. The year before, in October 2012, Catherine Gowing, 39, was decapitated and raped by serial rapist Clive Sharp, 47. In March the same year Elizabeth Coriat, 76, was decapitated by her son Daniel Coriat, 43; earlier the same month, Gemma McCluskie, 29, had been decapitated by her brother Tony McCluskie, 36.

    http://kareningalasmith.com/2014/09/04/beheaded/

  40. yeshe 40
    18 September 2014 at 3:40 pm

    another friend of Crusher’s? we do seem to offer residency and citizenship to some odd folk … bribes of $43 million in China ? Wow. NZ must be his picnic basket !

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11327173

  41. Cleangreen 41
    18 September 2014 at 5:11 pm

    Yet another National Party corruption case pops up?

    Now the President of the National Party Peter Goodfellow is caught up in a Chinese property scam!

    This is just getting worse by the day.

    Did key say last night to Cunliffe that National is a stable Government??

    Ha Ha, shouldn’t the electorate know of this?

  42. Clemgeopin 42
    18 September 2014 at 5:12 pm

    Strange stuff:

    The Maori Party, The National party and The NZF party…..all seem to directly or indirectly support the Labour’s Kelvin Davis!

    Easy conclusion and a no brainer:
    Give your candidate vote to Mr Hone Harawira.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10513413/Hone-Harawira-accuses-Maori-Party-of-sabotage

    The IMP is crucial for a left wing progressive government.

  43. ianmac 43
    18 September 2014 at 5:13 pm

    No Right Turn has interesting post re the briefing of SIS:
    ” Right to the top

    Thanks to the Ombudsman, we now know the identity of the staff member in the Prime Minister’s office who was briefed by the SIS over its release of classified material to Cameron Slater: (former) Deputy Chief of Staff Phil De Joux.

    Its unclear at this stage whether de Joux himself asked for the briefing or whether someone higher up did – but either way it suggests that dirty politics went right to the top of the Key government, and was almost certainly known about by Key himself. To point out the obvious, a deputy chief of staff doesn’t receive a briefing on the release of classified material and not tell the Prime Minister. Which makes the next question what did Key know and when did he know it?”

  44. Purple Scottie 44
    18 September 2014 at 6:37 pm

    Well that was scary.
    Just had a phone call from John Key!
    It was an automated message.
    He didn’t say anything about resigning, so I hung up.

  45. Draco T Bastard 45
    18 September 2014 at 7:59 pm

    And if you needed more proof that the Māori Party are in National’s pocket

    Māori Party exec ask Tai Tokerau candidate to stand down

  46. Herodotus 46
    18 September 2014 at 8:09 pm

    Voting just commenced, In 15 hours time will Scotland still be part of the union?
    In England only news item is watching current high profile mp’s going to the polls. Interesting only Scottish residents vote, not those who reside on the wrong side of the boarder, most on tv are calling it still too close to call.

    • bad politics 46.1
      18 September 2014 at 10:56 pm

      Taika Waititi ‏@TaikaWaititi 14m

      “Hey Scotland, my mum was way happier once she left my dad.”

  47. the pigman 47
    19 September 2014 at 1:04 am

    A bit of late night tin foil hattery..

    I saw a Herald online story (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11327176) with a concerning “View More” story linked at the bottom.

    That story is a dead link that links back to the main page. It’s title? “Moment of Truth gifts Team Key late bounce in polls”. Do I understand correctly that the Herald (despite leaking conservative party figures) are planning to drop their results the morning before election day?

    Well, colour me a left wing conspiracy theorist, but I can’t believe how desperate they are to keep-in-the-vote with the foregone conclusion narrative.

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