Calls for Key to resign

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1. Iron Sky 1

   25 November 2014 at 2:21 pm

   Government uses Leaderless Resistance to its Own Ends?

   An ironic twist? The Government increases surveillance to fight terrorists/subversives yet maybe using the very same tactics of Leaderless Resistance to further its own ends. Note, that in the entire document John Key was only mentioned once (funny also how he always seems to be missing when invited to comment). Now consider this section from the Report (again no mention of JK):

   “14. I have not found any partisan political motive on the part of the NZSIS or its Director”

   It’s all directed at the SIS.

   In addition it appears the SIS & the PMO combined have no idea on protocol? So who has GOVERNANCE over that, John Key or the tooth fairy? He did not do his JOB.

   Now filter that thought, just for the fun of it, through this definition of Leaderless Resistance, taking into consideration the MSMs work in the recent election and Ede et al:

   “A typical covert cell operates as anything from a lone individual to a small group. The basic characteristic of the structure is that there is no explicit communication between cells which are otherwise acting toward the same goals. Members of one cell usually have little or no specific information on who else is agitating on behalf of their cause.

   Leaderless movements may have symbolic figureheads. It can be a public figure or an inspirational author, who picks generic targets and objectives, but does not actually manage or execute plans. Media, in this case, often create a positive feedback loop: the publishing of declarations of a movement’s role model instills motivation, ideas and assumed sympathy in the minds of potential agitators who lend further authority to the figurehead.[citation needed] While this may be loosely viewed as a vertical command structure, it is notably unidirectional: a titular leader makes pronouncements, and activists may respond, but there is no established contact between the two levels of organization.”

   It is possible that these people (who are hardly “Lone Wolves”), do hunt in packs (cells) enabling them to deny any collusion with other packs that run to the same political theme.

   Oh, I think they call that dirty politics (2 track system)?

   So, if one wants to find, better evidence “themes” it may be gleaned in following a longitudinal study of key and peripheral individuals. Maybe you have to look at their past histories, political, business and social interactions (i.e. if they are recording conversations, GPS tracks etc). They were listening to people’s phone calls after all.

   So would it be worthwhile to extend to a wider timeline?

   In parallel to this we have the Government wanting warrant less surveillance to track a variety of threats (individuals & groups). So if an individual/group were organised and followed a Leaderless Resistance model it would probably require almost 24/7 analysis of all NZers to determine themes. If said individuals utilised such a model wouldn’t they would effectively go underground and polish up on their “don’t stand out from the fxxxing crowed skills”.

   Actually, did we know of Ede and Phil de Joux before all of this dirty politics sager? Theyre looking a little leaderless

   There is a good articles on The Myth of the Big Bad Lone Wolf, and it describes how Trying to stop lone-wolf terrorists — much less mentally ill murderers — is a waste of law enforcement’s time and money.

   “In the FBI, trying to prevent these type of lone wolf attacks is a Sisyphean task known among agents as a BFWAT, or Big Fucking Waste of an Agent’s Time.”
   http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/10/25/myth_big_bad_lone_wolf_terorrism_canada

   Yes, surveillance is asymmetric (costs alot in terms of rights, money etc) in nature, and in the right circumstances warranted. However, how does the “Government” conduct surveillance on itself and the very people who influence our future, particularly if they adopt “Leaderless Resistance” type models? Maybe start with better Governance? That was your job John.

   If we ignore books like Dirty Politics, which in itself, is a surveillance of the status quo what then.

   In addition if the recent if the assertion:
   “In the FBI, trying to prevent these type of lone wolf attacks is a Sisyphean task known among agents as a BFWAT, or Big Fucking Waste of an Agent’s Time.”
   http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/10/25/myth_big_bad_lone_wolf_terorrism_canada

   What’s to stop sophisticated “Lone Wolves” from entering parliament?

   Wherer was the Governance John

   Now where is red riding hood.
   • Iron Sky 1.1

     25 November 2014 at 2:32 pm

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaderless_resistance
     • Chooky 1.1.1

       25 November 2014 at 5:41 pm

       +100 Iron Sky…it is the thin edge of the wedge (excuse ) towards a police state serving John Key

       …in other word the inversion of this ‘paranoia’ is a fascist spying state on its citizens …which is the breakdown of a civil society based on trust and care between all individuals …
     • Chooky 1.1.2

       25 November 2014 at 6:22 pm

       “What’s to stop sophisticated “Lone Wolves” from entering parliament?”…you mean psychopaths, fifth columnists, Hitlers?
   • Tracey 1.2

     25 November 2014 at 2:36 pm

     Labour must stand up today and state that
     This govt and our secret services cannot yet be trusted with the serious right to surveil nzers without warrant until they prove, by actions not deeds, that they are worthy of our Trust. This government and those it appoints to work for it from cabinet ministers to PM press staff have shown themselves singularly incapable of self regulation. Their judgment and ethics are deeply flawed.

     Until that is proven to change the labour party will not entrust the privacy of nzers to them and will not budge from the notion that all kiwis are innocent until by lawful means they are found guilty.
     • karol 1.2.1

       25 November 2014 at 2:57 pm

       Metiria Turei asked a question to Finlayson along those lines. Finlayson calls her allegations against Kitteridge and the SIS head interfering in elections “malignant” “filth” that does no credit to the co-leader of a party.

       geez… this arrogant government defends itself with vicious, ill-founded attacks.
       • Tracey 1.2.1.1

         25 November 2014 at 3:03 pm

         so, he didnt deny the sis and the govt cant be trusted…
       • The Al1en 1.2.1.2

         25 November 2014 at 3:20 pm

         “geez… this arrogant government defends itself with vicious, ill-founded attacks.”

         Not unexpected given their track record
         Poo poos their moral high ground over left wing blogs. Sounds like they’re exactly the same as the worst elements on all of them, except they get paid lots for it when most others do it for free or the crumbs of the table if you’re a whale.
       • emergency mike 1.2.1.3

         25 November 2014 at 5:34 pm

         As the the speaker moves on to the next question you can hear him clearly call her a “disgusting creature”.

         Findlayson is one of the weirdest of all. I’ve always seen him as a particularly dead-eyed self-impressed elitist wannabe snob. People of such naked unprincipled vanity are easily used by people like Key.
         • Sans Cle 1.2.1.3.1

           25 November 2014 at 7:26 pm

           Unbelievable! And Carter sniggers at the “disgusting creature” comment from Findlayson. Kids in a playground have better behaviour than the National Party. What a farce of an afternoon in Parliament. I feel sick to the core that this is what the country voted back in (with the help of well oiled smear campaigns, complicit MSM etc etc etc). New Zealand, we deserve better than this.
       • North 1.2.1.4

         25 November 2014 at 10:49 pm

         Finlayson’s a caricature of an Old World Downton Abbey git……so adept in the questionable ‘art’ of toffy Wellington ‘drinks parties’ that you just gotta admire, and chuckle.

         A fellow who studiedly honours the butter knife, even while dining alone. Lives and breathes under the patronage of TheGodKey. He will, being somewhat thespian, perform as bidden. Jowl-shakingly so if threatened.

         The pearl clutching and outrage ain’t half bad but really we should kindly ignore Mr Attorney-General. The Tory Party’s resident anachronsim, exceedingly low bow and cocktail party grimace to rival the best of Edwardian drama. In other words fuckwit in the new century…….doing no more than pulling handsome pay.
     • Chooky 1.2.2

       25 November 2014 at 4:19 pm

       +100 Tracey “This govt and our secret services cannot yet be trusted with the serious right to surveil nzers without warrant …”
     • MrSmith 1.2.3

       25 November 2014 at 7:47 pm

       “Labour must stand up today and state that
This govt and our secret services cannot yet be trusted with the serious right to surveil nzers without warrant until they prove, by actions not deeds, that they are worthy of our Trust.”

       Exactly:
       So the first thing Labour do is roll over for a tummy rub on this issue, showing they are part of the problem.

       Eventually this, ‘if one person dies it’s to many’ bullshit must stop, the price of freedom is people are going to die, the alternative is a place where we are rapped in cotton wool, then watched and tracked 24 hrs a day, politicians continually use hysteria to take away our liberty and privacy.

       Labour clearly don’t have a problem with this and then wonder why their party keep imploding, stand up Labour and grow a spine.
       • Tracey 1.2.3.1

         25 November 2014 at 8:14 pm

         yup… not surprised but it means they are heading toward nats voters not green voters.
       • Murray Rawshark 1.2.3.2

         25 November 2014 at 11:11 pm

         They possibly need to grow a spine before they can stand up. In any case, I’d like to see them try it for once.
2. Tracey 2

   25 November 2014 at 2:31 pm

   Apparently real men only say sorry to other real men..

   So much made of Cunliffe talking about being sorry to be a man when talking to a room full of rape victims or advocates got alot of mileage… Very little made of the PMs almost pathalogical block to saying sorry. No wait he said sorry to slater who has caused immense suffering by his own words and deeds with never a sideway glance.
3. Tracey 3

   25 November 2014 at 2:47 pm

   Has Peter Dunne spoken up yet. He didnt read Dirty Politics and called it muckraking. But if you read UFs principles a couple almost demand he reads it and comments on the two reports today.

   PRINCIPLES

   The key principles that United Future is based on are:

   A fair, democratic and open society, founded on the rule of law, integrity and justice, committed to the fundamental values of respect for life, liberty, equality and community, including:
   Freedom of political choice through free elections;
   Freedom of speech, information and assembly;
   Freedom of belief and religious expression;
   Integrity and truth as essential to all relationships between individuals, communities and Government.
   Self-reliance, personal responsibility and independence, and proper reward for effort.
   Economic freedom through an open market economy, and the promotion of innovation, creativity and wealth for the individual and collective benefit of both employers and employees, balanced by a recognition of wider social responsibility and the need to protect the natural environment.
   The family (including wider family and whanau) as the primary unit for a sustainable society and its interdependence with strong, caring and compassionate community organisations, such as churches, schools, charitable and other service groups.
   A modern multicultural society which encourages social harmony and unity through respect for individual differences and cultural diversity and:
   Which recognises New Zealand’s bicultural heritage arising from the Treaty of Waitangi;
   Which encourages responsible citizenship based on mutual respect;
   Where the framework and rule of law applies equally to all.
   Where no one is enslaved by poverty or ignorance, and every child has the best possible start in life.

   A partnership between New Zealanders and their Government where:

   Individuals balance freedom of choice and opportunity with the responsibility of living in community with other people;
   The Government seeks to empower individuals, families and communities through values based leadership including protecting the weak and those at risk and requiring responsible behaviour of all people.
   • weka 3.1

     25 November 2014 at 6:03 pm

     Am expecting Dunne’s Grima Wormtoungue along any minute now to tell us all that the real issue here is that the person behing Notices and Features was biased in their selection of tweets 😉
4. Chooky 4

   25 November 2014 at 2:49 pm

   Paul Buchanan , Security Analyst , is damning about the SIS and Prime Minister’s Office…

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20158532/security-analyst-says-sis-and-pms-office-unprofessional
   • Draco T Bastard 4.1

     25 November 2014 at 7:07 pm

     And what he says on his blog is also good:

     Short of taking monetary or personal favours, this is official malfeasance of the first order and is corrosive of the professional integrity of the intelligence community. Shame on all involved.
     • Tracey 4.1.1

       25 November 2014 at 8:11 pm

       and erodes the trust of the nz public
5. karol 5

   25 November 2014 at 2:51 pm

   What a disgusting performance by Key in Question Time today. Not worthy of a PM. He treated the whole issue of the Gwyn Report and its substance, and one big joke, and blame shifted constantly to Goff.

   Nasty, diversionary, against the spirit of transparency and democracy.

   Tricky, slippery, arrogant.
   • Tracey 5.1

     25 November 2014 at 3:04 pm

     The only emotional response he appears to have to anything is humour…
     • wyndham 5.1.1

       25 November 2014 at 3:24 pm

       Never seen Key so hyped up – – – almost out of control and constantly reprimanded by the Speaker.

       What is he on ?
       • Tracey 5.1.1.1

         25 November 2014 at 3:33 pm

         He wont have slept cos he would have been undergoing his practice of the crosby textor lines for today all night.

         He is used to his lies being believed but even he may be finding it hard to believe this one is being bought.

         There is a singular lack of right wing apologists on here today. Fizzi briefly. Alwyn playing the nothing to see here card… Almost makes you think they have all been busy somewhere else today… And last night
     • Ffloyd 5.1.2

       25 November 2014 at 8:54 pm

       That’s not humour. It’s vitriol. He runs on hatred. Very disturbed person. His time is running out and he knows it.
   • Chooky 5.2

     25 November 2014 at 3:07 pm

     …. as Mike Williams points out on Ninetonoon , Phil Goff was made to look incompetent or a liar just before an Election which was lost by Phil Goff and Labour by only a few thousand votes ( this could have swung the Election)

     (http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/20158544/political-commentators-on-the-gwyn-inquiry )

     Democracy was undermined and is being undermined with John Key as leader
     • alwyn 5.2.1

       25 November 2014 at 5:48 pm

       ” Phil Goff was made to look incompetent or a liar just before an Election ”

       I would agree that Phil Goff was made to look incompetent “just before an election” but this wasn’t it.
       The OIA release was on 2 August 2011, almost four months before the election that was held on 26 November 2011.

       The actual date on which Goff was made to look a complete idiot was three months later than the OIA release. It was on 3 November 2011 in the debate when Goff was left stuttering with Key’s simple request “Show me the money”. That was the event that showed that Goff was an ass.

       You also have an interesting view on what a “few” is. You say that ” Election which was lost by Phil Goff and Labour by only a few thousand votes “.
       Perhaps you have forgotten but National received 1,058,636 votes and Labour got 614,937. I would have thought that 443,699 was a bit more that a “few thousand”.
       • Chooky 5.2.1.1

         25 November 2014 at 7:40 pm

         @ alwyn…….Suggest people should listen to that link and make up their own minds about your arguments…

         http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/20158544/political-commentators-on-the-gwyn-inquiry

         Mike Williams states ..(.re Ede’s liaison with Slater to seek information from the SIS)….. “it should put in context . This was during an Election campaign….where Phil Goff and the Labour party came within 10,000 votes of the ability to form a government…so this conspiracy, and it clearly is a conspiracy, may well have saved John Key’s bacon ”

         For Mike Williams it is …. unpredented… possibility of a lot more to be discovered further …unbelievable
         .
         Looks like Tucker edited the report to make Goff look either incompetent or a liar ….Hager’s book was correct…. despite Key’s denials and reaction to Hager’s book
         • Tracey 5.2.1.1.1

           25 November 2014 at 8:07 pm

           you mean alwyns spinning and deliberately misrepresenting. he does seem to have moved into spin mode this last 2 days
           • alwyn 5.2.1.1.1.1

             25 November 2014 at 8:21 pm

             You can give some evidence for this can you Tracey?
             What in this comment is deliberating misrepresenting for example?
             • Tracey …

               25 November 2014 at 8:35 pm

               just keep diverting alwyn… your ethics are showing
               • alwyn …

                 26 November 2014 at 9:22 am

                 In other words you can’t show anything that I have been misrepresenting can you?
                 • Tracey …

                   26 November 2014 at 2:51 pm

                   Thats the way, make yourself feel beetter
                   • alwyn …

                     26 November 2014 at 4:13 pm

                     Since Chooky seems to have gone AWOL, but you seem to still think that I am “misrepresenting things” when I comment on the fact that Labour would have needed far more than 10,000 votes to have been able to form a Government in 2011 perhaps you will tell me what is wrong with the calculation I have posted just below here
                     http://thestandard.org.nz/calls-for-key-to-resign/#comment-931391
                     You are so sure I am sure you can point out the flaw. Well I’m not actually because there isn’t one.
                     Do try. I’m sure a person like you will think of something.
                   • Tracey …

                     26 November 2014 at 4:31 pm

                     Were your eyes welling up?

                     Your spinning is that you have taken the opportunity to deflect so eagerly, still pursue it and have been basically silent on the topic. You did it for almost two days. Now I shall leave the last word for you.
                   • McFlock …

                     26 November 2014 at 5:05 pm

                     5000 for Maori party to lose their electorate.
                     2200 and banks loses epsom
                     1300 and the hairdo is gone from ohariu

                     Then those peope switch theirs party votes as well, then 1000 isn’t too far off.
                     But feel free to quibble about whether 10,000 or 30,000 votes might have swung the election for Labour without the SIS assisting national.
                   • alwyn …

                     26 November 2014 at 5:41 pm

                     @McFlock.
                     What a wonderful piece of logic. Is this a serious proposition?
                     Can I suggest a simple alternative example for your parallel world?
                     Do you realise that Andrew Little would have been out of Parliament if one of the 2014 Parliamentary candidates had received a mere 711 extra votes?
                     If Anderson in Ohariu had got 711 more votes she would have entered Parliament, Little would have been out and Robertson would be the Leader. My god Grant will be unhappy won’t he.? What a ridiculous hypothesis you propose.
                     In the words that little children used to snigger at. “If my Aunt had balls she’d be my Uncle”.
                   • alwyn …

                     26 November 2014 at 7:00 pm

                     @McFlock.
                     I got interested in your theory so I tried the following for the 2011 election.
                     Gave Labour all three of the Maori Party seats (This was 2011 remember) No Maori Party
                     Also gave the Ohariu so Peter Dunn has gone.
                     Gave Epsom to Labourl so Banks would have gone.
                     Gave Labour 35,000 more party votes.
                     The result had National governing alone with 61 seats in a 120 seat Parliament.
                     I had to give Labour 60,000 more votes before I got National down to 59 seats and the sum of all the others up to 61.
                     It wasn’t nearly as close as Mike Williams likes to claim was it?
                   • McFlock …

                     26 November 2014 at 11:07 pm

                     Lol, so you poor scorn on the idea that only a few thousand votes could have swayed the election, and your fallback was to argue that hypotheticals are pointless.

                     Then you do the math when you finally have something to talk about, and pretend you never moved from position A, the literal interpretation of the numbers, as opposed to the election was fucking close, and the SIS assisted the national party.

                     0.83% being their majority after you decided to know what you were talikng about?

                     Yeah, no way in fuck calling goff a liar would have affected that,/i> /sarc
         • alwyn 5.2.1.1.2

           25 November 2014 at 8:08 pm

           I never bothered to listen to the item on the radio.
           I was really commenting on the wording of your comment about the “just before” and “a few thousand”.

           To form a Government, even if the got another however many thousand votes (and I haven’t bothered to check how many would have been enough since it never happened) they would have had to get every other party to go along. Getting Winston and the Greens to co-operate would have been like herding cats. Then they would have needed to persuade Dunne (probably possible) and Maori and Mana to happily coexist. It was never going to happen.
           Incidentally I regard a “few” as being two or three.

           I would still argue that we can’t really consider four months as close to the election and I don’t think the general public gave a damn. It was the debate that wiped Goff out.

           Mike Williams is of course a former Labour Party President. He is also the man who wandered off to Australia in the middle of a campaign with his claim that he was going to find the “neutron bomb” or whatever he called it that was going to destroy John Key. I don’t regard him as a particularly relevant commentator.
       • Clemgeopin 5.2.1.2

         25 November 2014 at 8:08 pm

         We are in MMP, not FPP. You forgot about the Labour’s potential coalition partners.
         • alwyn 5.2.1.2.1

           25 November 2014 at 8:18 pm

           Then he/she should have said so. I haven’t forgot about MMP but Chooky seems to have.
           Why talk about Labour missing out by a few thousand if what you mean is the total of nearly all the other parties in Parliament?
           And just how many parties do you think they could have got to cooperate?
           You would have needed more than a “few thousand” extra votes to come to a number more that the combined National, United Future, ACT and Maori Party figures wouldn’t you?
         • Chooky 5.2.1.2.2

           25 November 2014 at 8:35 pm

           @Clem…+100

           @alwyn ..as i worked for MMP i never forget MMP ….however i think you either forgot it or you deliberately tried destroy my argument, which was a repeat of Williams’ arguments

           …actually I remember very clearly Goff being made to look either incompetent or a liar just before the Election….i think for many it was the reason they didnt give him their vote…so Yes I agree with Williams that it was a conspiracy that swung the Election away from a Labour coalition win and for John Key and Nact

           ….disgraceful on so many counts!
           • alwyn 5.2.1.2.2.1

             26 November 2014 at 9:21 am

             @Chooky
             Did Mike Williams really say what you quote him as saying
             “This was during an Election campaign….where Phil Goff and the Labour party came within 10,000 votes of the ability to form a government”

             If so he is either a fool or he is making things up. I have never thought he was a fool so I can only assume that he regards the rest of the world as fools who will accept anything he says as gospel.

             After the 2011 election the Government was formed from four parties holding 64 seats. There were four other parties holding 57 seats.
             If we assume that all of those parties would combine to form a government, Labour, Green, NZF and Mana they would have had to get an additional four seats and National would have had to lose four list seats. ACT, Maori and UF held only electorate seats so wouldn’t have changed.
             If we assume that all electorate seats remained as they were and all parties except Labour got the number of votes that they did then Labour would have been the only party to get more votes.
             Mike is suggesting, and you seem to agree with him that they had only needed 10,000 more votes. In fact they would have had to increase their vote to 734,370 in order for their grouping to get 61 of the 121 seats in the house.
             That is an additional 119,433 votes. Rather more than “10,000” don’t you think?

             If you understand the Sainte-Lague formula you can easily check this calculation. If not you can easily check my conclusion by putting the actual results into the election calculator with Labour having 734,369 votes (when National and partners get 61 seats) or 734,370 votes when Labour and partners get the 61 seats to govern)

             I think Mike has been conning you and you have fallen for it.
       • D'Esterre 5.2.1.3

         25 November 2014 at 10:52 pm

         @ Alwyn: “You also have an interesting view on what a “few” is. You say that ” Election which was lost by Phil Goff and Labour by only a few thousand votes “.
         Perhaps you have forgotten but National received 1,058,636 votes and Labour got 614,937. I would have thought that 443,699 was a bit more that a “few thousand”.”

         Tsk, tsk! Williams was talking about the 2011 election. Surely this was obvious to you, given that the issue under discussion is the Gwyn report?
         • alwyn 5.2.1.3.1

           26 November 2014 at 8:26 am

           I was talking about the 2011 election.
           I got the numbers from this page.
           http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2011/partystatus.html
           What on earth are you talking about? You appear to be confused.
   • Andrea 5.3

     25 November 2014 at 8:25 pm

     Karol: “tricky, slippery, arrogant.”

     Flatterer.
6. Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 6

   25 November 2014 at 2:58 pm

   Is there something for concerned members of the public to sign, such as a public petition or call for referendum?
   • McFlock 6.1

     25 November 2014 at 3:06 pm

     nothing of any use for three years
     • instauration 6.1.1

       25 November 2014 at 9:28 pm

       Unless you are resident in Ukraine.
   • Tracey 6.2

     25 November 2014 at 3:06 pm

     No, and the Nats know it. Its why they pulled the stunt in 2011 and again in 2014… Cos it worked and once in, they stay. They lied about the surplus too.
   • SHG 6.3

     25 November 2014 at 3:58 pm

     Yep, happens every three years.
7. aaron 7

   25 November 2014 at 3:14 pm

   In reference to Mathew Hooten’s second tweet above; the report doesn’t say that Key instructed his staff to tip off Slater (obviously) but given that Key received a briefing from the head of the SIS the same day that Slater was tipped off the only possible way that his staff (specifically de Joux) could have heard about the info was from the PM himself.

   No doubt Key will say it was just a chance comment on his behalf but how does he make the claim that his staff didn’t do anything dodgy?
   • Tracey 7.1

     25 November 2014 at 3:29 pm

     Why would Key need to discuss his SIS briefing with his national party branch of the PMs office?

     Are SIS briefings not themselves confidential?
   • Tracey 7.2

     25 November 2014 at 4:13 pm

     Just posted about that too aaron. And pasted the paragraph. Hoots either has reading comprehension problems or is playing some kind of game.

     Keys phone email records would clear it up quickly.
   • RedBaronCV 7.3

     25 November 2014 at 6:40 pm

     Chance comment ” who will rid me of that turbulent priest”
8. Tracey 8

   25 November 2014 at 3:27 pm

   been reading john armstrongs article… Quite strong for him but it seems its not up there with Cunliffe manning up to victims and helpers of sexual violence, or an 11 year old letter asking for a timeline for an immigration app. So, no screaming headlines calling for resignation or democracy under attack.

   Read a few comments. This one caught my eye… For its less than veiled threat

   “…Stop banging this tired old drum. Perhaps it’s time to do a bit of clearing up at The Herald too. Your hands are hardly clean.

   I think you might all find you are increasingly starved of stories if you keep on hammering away at this. Perhaps that might further accelerate your decline.
   What have we found out? Not much.

   But Goff can leak and posture and pontificate without any comeback from the media. A lot of expensive time has been wasted to find out blow all.
   Bea B – Hamilton – 02:05 PM Tuesday, 25 Nov 2014 …”
   • North 8.1

     26 November 2014 at 8:12 am

     Tracey @ 8 – I suspect “Bea B” is the unhinged thing of pen name “Bea Brown” that strolls on The Standard from time to time , as here on 12 November –

     http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-12112014/#comment-924692

     Bea Brown – Open Mike 12/11/14 @ 18 – “We love him ! The world loves him !”

     Around the time TheGaucheKey gave us a prime time television preview of his dinner party howler about murder and child rape.
9. Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 9

   25 November 2014 at 3:28 pm

   When Nats no longer have any shred of trustworthiness left, they shout in the House. Shout loudly. Shout very loudly.
10. Simple Simon 10

    25 November 2014 at 3:52 pm

    No point in asking J(er)K to resign as he has a hide as thick as his head.
    The man has not an ounce of morality in his body.
    • Chooky 10.1

      25 November 2014 at 8:46 pm

      does that make him a snake?
      • peterlepaysan 10.1.1

        25 November 2014 at 10:29 pm

        Please leave us snakes out of this discussion, we do have ethics.
        • Chooky 10.1.1.1

          25 November 2014 at 10:35 pm

          sorry to all self respecting snakes.!…actually snakes were supposed to be the bringers of knowledge and wisdom ( that is when they weren’t being a snake in the grass and giving you a nasty bite)
11. Jenny Kirk 11

    25 November 2014 at 4:05 pm

    Good speech by Andrew Little in urgent debate today (after Question Time) – really laying into the PM and the ” dirty, sleazy” workings of this govt . AL is starting to make his mark as Labour’s Leader – and he’s barely been in the job a week. Great stuff.
    • cogito 11.1

      25 November 2014 at 4:51 pm

      Yes, great rousing speech by Andrew Little. Hope he keeps it up as that is exactly what is needed to shake people out of their complacency and start the resistance that is sorely needed to this putrid government of liars.
      • Tracey 11.1.1

        25 November 2014 at 5:01 pm

        some fire in the belly. passion. good stuff
        • cogito 11.1.1.1

          25 November 2014 at 5:42 pm

          like old times… 🙂
    • AmaKiwi 11.2

      25 November 2014 at 8:46 pm

      Brilliant performance by Andrew Little.

      His indignation was superb.

      If someone spoke like that in a pub I would duck for cover and slink out the back door before the fistfight breaks out.

      In essence Andrew said, “I am not going to any take sh*t from you scumbags.”
12. Tracey 12

    25 November 2014 at 4:10 pm

    Again Slater lies and lies… As Collins alleges he does in the other report by Chisolm today.

    At paragraph 209 Slater says he was assisted by someone from the SIS with his OIA. This is what he wrote in his blog post to give it some credibility.

    Para 214 Slater actually reassured Ede in an email that he would claim he has a SIS source to protect Ede.

    Hooton tweeted (above)

    “…Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ
    Follow

    Pare 218 on pp64-65 shows @johnkeypm personally involved in hit on Goff, including calling Tucker from the USA about it …” my reading of that paragraph is that Key was called, not Key did the calling?

    “… 218 From those inquiries, and the wider investigation that I undertook of the actions of NZSIS and PMO, I found the following:   The Acting Director and the Director each briefed the Prime Minister on the Israeli allegations by telephone on 21 and 22 July respectively. The Prime Minister was, on those dates and until 30 July, in the United States. The Director, as part of the 22 July briefing, advised the Prime Minister that the Leader of the Opposition had received a briefing on the Israeli allegations. The Prime Minister made a public comment that the Leader of the Opposition had been briefed on the Q&A programme broadcast on 24 July. Mr de Joux had also sought confirmation of that point and was given that confirmation, including a description of the briefing documents and the date of those documents, by the DDROC on 22 July. He confirmed that point again with the Director on 25 July. On the same day, Mr de Joux provided that information to Mr Ede with the suggestion that it might prompt an OIA request for those documents. Mr Ede then provided that information to Mr Slater, discussed the terms of the OIA request with Mr Slater and provided Mr Slater with draft blog posts concerning the issue. . After receiving that information, Mr Slater published a blog post that commented “[a]ll someone has to do now is ask Warren Tucker to produce the briefing notes and [Mr] Goff is a goner”. Mr Slater emphasised that he had decided to make the OIA request himself but that he was assisted by NZSIS information provided to him. As noted above, I have accepted the evidence from Mr de Joux and Mr Ede that it was Mr Ede who provided that information. “
13. Mark Wilson 13

    25 November 2014 at 4:24 pm

    [deleted]

    [lprent: Banned for 4 months for trolling. If you want to say something make a point rather than simply stroking your brain to an upright position. I am kind of intolerant of wankers on this site. The site for that is Whaleoil. ]
14. chris73 14

    25 November 2014 at 5:01 pm

    To be fair Key resigning is looking like the only way the left will beat Key
    • Weepus beard 14.1

      25 November 2014 at 5:08 pm

      So be it. Let the socially responsible left make his position untenable.
      • Tracey 14.1.1

        25 November 2014 at 5:13 pm

        I am going to go out on a limb here and state that i dont believe chris has read the gwyn or chisolm reports
        • chris73 14.1.1.1

          25 November 2014 at 5:17 pm

          Sorry but just a bit busy at work, you know how it is
          • Tracey 14.1.1.1.1

            25 November 2014 at 5:27 pm

            never too busy to be a key apologist though.
            • Paul 14.1.1.1.1.1

              25 November 2014 at 5:28 pm

              Ignore him
              • chris73 …

                25 November 2014 at 5:30 pm

                Thanks for playing
                • Weepus beard …

                  25 November 2014 at 5:55 pm

                  Hmm…It’s not a game to me. Looks like it is to you, however.
                  • chris73 …

                    25 November 2014 at 6:54 pm

                    Politics is a game, not to be taken seriously
                    • Weepus beard …

                      25 November 2014 at 10:36 pm

                      What a ridiculous statement. Are you 12?
              • Tracey …

                25 November 2014 at 5:33 pm

                like you did at 14.2?
            • chris73 14.1.1.1.1.2

              25 November 2014 at 5:29 pm

              Got to earn those pay checks don’t ‘cha know
              • Andrea …

                25 November 2014 at 8:38 pm

                chris 73: “Got to earn those pay checks don’t ‘cha know”

                The price of groundnuts has been sinking since April 2014… and the other option, (so suitable) ‘Hog futures fell for the fourth time in five sessions as pork prices plunged”,

                Another commodity as a medium of exchange, perhaps? Paid by cheque and in kiwi dollars.
      • chris73 14.1.2

        25 November 2014 at 5:14 pm

        If the left can then fair play but I’m betting they can’t
15. hoom 15

    25 November 2014 at 5:19 pm

    Yet more banana republic stuff from the Nats.
    Is it not clearly time for a fully independent anti-corruption committee?
    • chris73 15.1

      25 November 2014 at 5:21 pm

      I think this is a good idea
      • BMW 15.1.1

        25 November 2014 at 6:27 pm

        Your not BM in disguise by any chance?
      • BMW 15.1.2

        25 November 2014 at 6:30 pm

        chris73, your not BM by any chance?

        Same in-depth analysis. You could be cousins.
        • chris73 15.1.2.1

          25 November 2014 at 6:56 pm

          I enjoy reading his insightful comments but alas I’m not BM
          • BMW 15.1.2.1.1

            25 November 2014 at 7:22 pm

            WoW you can read, awesome.
    • Paul 15.2

      25 November 2014 at 5:28 pm

      Let’s ignore c73.
      Thoughtful intelligent debate will be derailed if we reply to him.
      • chris73 15.2.1

        25 November 2014 at 6:28 pm

        Or you could try telling the moderators how to run their blog again
        • Weepus beard 15.2.1.1

          25 November 2014 at 6:36 pm

          I’m astounded they let you post here. You add nothing except goading and spite.
    • Tracey 15.3

      25 November 2014 at 5:31 pm

      or we could vote for people with ethics. or if we voted and found out they had no ethics, dont vote for them again. voters enable politicians
      • Draco T Bastard 15.3.1

        25 November 2014 at 5:45 pm

        I like the idea that if we vote for people with no morals that those people quickly get put in jail for treason.
        • Chooky 15.3.1.1

          25 November 2014 at 6:04 pm

          well you are an optimist..it is good to be an optimist
        • weka 15.3.1.2

          25 November 2014 at 6:09 pm

          The people with no morals or the people that voted for the people with not morals? It’s not like we didn’t know what Key and co were like before the last election.
          • Draco T Bastard 15.3.1.2.1

            25 November 2014 at 7:00 pm

            The people with no morals or the people that voted for the people with not morals?

            The people with no morals that get elected into parliament.

            It’s not like we didn’t know what Key and co were like before the last election.

            Apparently some people were still fooled at the last election. I suspect putting a lot of the present government behind bars might wake them up to what is acceptable when running the country to what isn’t..
            • Peter 15.3.1.2.1.1

              25 November 2014 at 8:25 pm

              Mr Key will be remembered as the guy who was to good to be true and as the great pretender.
        • alwyn 15.3.1.3

          25 November 2014 at 6:23 pm

          “put in jail for treason”
          It’s an interesting idea but I wouldn’t get to optimistic about it happening.
          There has been, if I am correct, only one person in New Zealand who has been convicted of Treason. He was, according to Wikipedia,
          “Hamiora Pere, for fighting against the British government in Te Kooti’s War.”

          There was a New Zealand Labour Prime Minister, Peter Fraser, who was convicted in his younger days of sedition. Is that a sort of younger brother of treason?
          • Draco T Bastard 15.3.1.3.1

            25 November 2014 at 7:02 pm

            There has been, if I am correct, only one person in New Zealand who has been convicted of Treason.

            Just because it happens only rarely doesn’t mean that it won’t happen again.

            Is that a sort of younger brother of treason?

            No and it’s been removed from the law books for good reason.
          • chris73 15.3.1.3.2

            25 November 2014 at 7:05 pm

            Sort of, its more (going off my wonky memory) like inciting insurrection as opposed to going out and doing it yourself
            • Chooky 15.3.1.3.2.1

              25 November 2014 at 7:49 pm

              …is that what happened in John Key’s office?…hello Jason
          • GregJ 15.3.1.3.3

            25 November 2014 at 9:14 pm

            Sedition under the Crimes Act was “speech, writing or behaviour intended to encourage rebellion or resistance against the government”.

            Tim Selwyn was convicted of sedition in 2006 when he threw an axe through the window of Helen Clark’s electorate office in 2004 in protest of the foreshore and seabed issue and urged others to take similar action. Sedition was removed from the Crimes Act in 2008(?).

            Fraser’s was for arguing against conscription in WWI (interestingly conscription was introduced in WWII while he was Prime Minister).
16. Zolan 16

    25 November 2014 at 5:48 pm

    What wishful-thinking lefties have to realise is that facts aren’t enough.
    This situation is very similar to those Key faced in business and finance, in which he mastered techniques that allowed him to profit even on shaky foundations and step free of the fallout.
    He has no reason to lose his nerve, and every reason to believe that ruthless persistence will lead to victory.
    In short, the opposition still has to fight hard, and be ready for devious defense and counter-attack to the very end.
    • Chooky 16.1

      25 November 2014 at 10:21 pm

      +100 Zolan…very good analysis and points…short of getting proof of complicity ….or having someone spit the dummy or develop a conscience and rat …it is going to be gruelling

      ….i live in hope that someone like Hager has more
17. Matthew Hooton 17

    25 November 2014 at 6:26 pm

    I’m on RadioLIVE after 7pm news to do a bit of talkback on all this. Should I join the list?
    • the pigman 17.1

      25 November 2014 at 6:50 pm

      List of people calling on Key to resign? Such a cocktease!

      ‘cept without the tease part.
18. Weepus beard 18

    25 November 2014 at 6:32 pm

    @ Matthew Hooton 17. You’d only be doing so safe in the knowledge that this is not the fatal blow to John Key. You’d only be doing so in an attempt to appear (as per instruction), to keep John Key honest.*

    *A nearly impossible task, I would have thought.
    • BMW 18.1

      25 November 2014 at 7:21 pm

      “Weepus Beard, since the start of 2014 Matthew has made circa 358 comments on this site.

      I’m being patient and still waiting to see his genius shine through…

      Yawn!

      Now where did I put my copy of House and Garden
      • Tracey 18.1.1

        25 November 2014 at 7:38 pm

        matthew apparently said in an interview the other day that everyone at the standard is crazy… 358 posts makes him one of everyone at the standard?
19. fisiani 19

    25 November 2014 at 6:40 pm

    Norman huffed and Little puffed and Winston still couldn’t blow the PM down.
    Masterful display by John Key making the Opposition look amateurish. It was pathetic to see three grown men flailing around like a no armed boxer trying to land an uppercut knockout.
    • karol 19.1

      25 November 2014 at 6:56 pm

      And yet, that seems to have passed (conservative) Vernon Small by – and most others. It’s only a masterful display by Key if you “ignore the obvious”, and close your eyes to Key shooting himself in the foot.
    • BMW 19.2

      25 November 2014 at 7:11 pm

      Ede huffed and Phil puffed and Finlayson still couldn’t blow the PM……………

      Down
    • McFlock 19.3

      25 November 2014 at 7:15 pm

      thanks for the broadcast from the bunker
    • Weepus beard 19.4

      25 November 2014 at 7:18 pm

      That’s the thing with you morally corrupt right wing folk. It’s all a game and a nursery rhyme to you.

      Like when you were a child.
      • chris73 19.4.1

        25 November 2014 at 7:25 pm

        It is a game because games are meant to be won and the prize for winning is running the country how you see fit
        • McFlock 19.4.1.1

          25 November 2014 at 7:32 pm

          with one difference: people die.
          • chris73 19.4.1.1.1

            25 November 2014 at 7:38 pm

            Pretty sure that no matter whos in government people die so not really relavent here
            • Tracey 19.4.1.1.1.1

              25 November 2014 at 7:41 pm

              read the reports yet?

              “… It did not seek out crucial evidence – Facebook messages from Collins deleted account (still retrievable), emails, and missing phone records. The author appears to have shrugged off Slater’s withholding of emails from the inquiry. He didn’t think it necessary to interview key players, lawyer Cathy Odgers and Hanover boss Mark Hotchin…” list of stuff not examine by chisolm regarding collins possible undermining of feeley.
              • chris73 …

                25 November 2014 at 7:57 pm

                I think all political parties, thats all political parties, do whatever it takes to gain and keep power

                To think otherwise is naive, to want it to be more honest is noble but it won’t ever happen

                Best you can hope for is the government of the day doesn’t make things worse and in the case of the last Labour and present National government things are going not too bad
                • Weepus beard …

                  25 November 2014 at 8:04 pm

                  Tell that to the casualised workforce who struggle to make ends meet.
                • The Other Mike …

                  25 November 2014 at 9:22 pm

                  Aha! The old “they all do it” canard.

                  Yup I can see Andrew Little cosying up with the SIS tomorrow for briefings he is (not) entitled to.

                  As if.
            • McFlock 19.4.1.1.1.2

              25 November 2014 at 8:01 pm

              The quality of the governance affects how many people die.

              Not the effectiveness of campaign dirty tricks.
            • Ffloyd 19.4.1.1.1.3

              25 November 2014 at 9:06 pm

              Umm, don’t mean to be rude, but why do you bother with Chris 73??. Everything he says is irrelevant to pretty much everything on the planet. Time for him to blast off.
        • Weepus beard 19.4.1.2

          25 November 2014 at 7:59 pm

          Appallingly simplistic with poor grammar and punctuation.

          Just what I’d expect.
      • Tracey 19.4.2

        25 November 2014 at 7:48 pm

        they rediscover morals when in opposition
    • Tracey 19.5

      25 November 2014 at 7:50 pm

      can you post a picture of you in your rose tinted glasses
    • North 19.6

      25 November 2014 at 8:54 pm

      Long, long, long, very, very, very, slow, slow, slow, clap, clap, clap for Fizzy, Fizzy, Fizzy Anus x 3.

      The Wind-Up Boy. The Shadow. The Lunatic. The Odour. The Tarnish. Off to SlaterPorn Ya Mad Fuck. Ya remind me of Madame Ceacescu near the end !
20. Sans Cle 20

    25 November 2014 at 7:00 pm

    After watching question time in Parliament, it is embarrassing that we have a Prime Minister that treats Parliament (and the NZ public) with such derision. I feel so angry that a Prime Minister thinks it is ok to behave in such a way.
21. Gruntie 21

    25 November 2014 at 7:10 pm

    Key is a fucking liar – always has been always will be
22. Penny Bright 22

    25 November 2014 at 7:20 pm

    FYI folks! This cuts to the heart of this issue (IMO) – the FACT that the Office of the Prime Minister is completely out of control ……

    It contains facts and evidence on this issue that I haven’t seen anywhere else – so I apologise for the length. (I’ve sent it out far and wide today 🙂

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    25 November 2014

    My formal request to Cheryl Gwyn (dated 12 September 2014) to extend the scope of her inquiry into the role of the Office of the Prime Minister:

    This is a formal request for you to please ensure that your current “in-depth and robust inquiry” into claims Security Intelligence Service (SIS) information was used for political purposes covers the underpinning role of the Office of the Prime Minister. (if it does not already do so).

    ———- Forwarded message ———-
    From: IGIS_Enquiries
    Date: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 3:47 PM
    Subject: RE: Response to your request attached UNCLASSIFIED
    To: Penny Bright

    Received safely.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________

    12 September 2014

    Cheryl Gwyn
    Inspector-General
    Intelligence and Security

    ‘OPEN LETTER’

    Dear Inspector-General,

    This is a formal request for you to please ensure that your current “in-depth and robust inquiry” into claims Security Intelligence Service (SIS) information was used for political purposes covers the underpinning role of the Office of the Prime Minister. (if it does not already do so).

    My full name is Penelope Mary Bright.

    DISCLOSURE: I am currently standing as an Independent candidate in the Helensville electorate.

    BACKGROUND:

    In 1981 I was publicly named in Prime Minister Robert Muldoon’s famous SIS list as a ‘subversive’ arising from my role in organising opposition to the Springbok Tour.

    I have never been able to get a copy of my SIS file, although I have not been a member of any politically active party for over 30 years, and have no history of violent offending.

    I was also unable to get it confirmed or denied whether I was one of the 88 New Zealanders upon whom the GCSB unlawfully spied.

    My ‘submission’ made directly to Prime Minister John Key on the GCSB Bill, is available here: (11 minutes)

    Since 2000 – I have chosen to work full time as a self-funded ‘anti-privatisation’ and latterly ‘anti-corruption Public Watchdog’.

    During that time, I have now attended four significant international anti-corruption conferences, met the experts, read the material, and put my mind to the New Zealand corruption ‘reality’.

    2009 Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    2010 Attendee Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
    2013 Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    2014 Attendee: G20 Anti-Corruption Conference

    Here is the link to the ACTION PLAN against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption and corporate welfare, which I have developed:

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ANTI-CORRUPTION-WHITE-COLLAR-CRIME-CORPORATE-WELFARE-ACTION-PLAN-Ak-Mayoral-campaign-19-July-2013-2.pdf

    This ‘ACTION PLAN’ is a far cry from New Zealand’s ‘perceived’ status as ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ (currently shared with Denmark, according to Transparency International’s 2013 ‘Corruption Perception Index’)

    http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

    (This ‘perceived’ status being based upon the subjective opinions of anonymous businesspeople.)

    having just turned 60 years of age, I have a wide range of life experience.
    I have never attended University, but am a qualified Tradesperon with Advanced Trade in Sheetmetal Engineering, was NZ’s first Certified Board for Inspectorate Personnel (CBIP) ticketed woman Welding Inspector, and was for 9 years a Welding Tutor at Manukau Institute of Technology.

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/qualifications/

    My work experience includes having been a Quality Assurance Co-ordinator at a stainless steel fabrication plant, which has given me a good grasp of ‘process’ and planning.

    So – why I’m writing to you is to express my strongest concerns about the apparent total failure of quality assurance systems and processes at the highest levels of the New Zealand Government, in particular, the Office of the Prime Minister, which appears to be completely ‘out of control’.

    According to the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) website, the roles of the DPMC and Office of the Prime Minister, are supposed to be quite different and ‘totally separate’.

    http://www.dpmc.govt.nz/dpmc

    Issues that arise across the full range of government business

    DPMC provides a continuous flow of advice to the Prime Minister on major and daily issues, along with oversight of wider government activity and access to information and assessments. DPMC also works directly with Ministers on specific issues. The Deputy Prime Minister plays a lead role on behalf of the Prime Minister over a number of the government’s policy programmes and DPMC supports him on some of these matters from time to time.

    DPMC works with central agencies to draw together departments in support of the Government’s priorities, to focus agencies on providing options for action, to ensure implementation of agreed programmes and policies, to drive for enhanced agency performance, and to deal effectively with issues which affect the nation. DPMC also provides the secretariat support for decision making by the Cabinet and its committees.

    Administrative support to the Prime Minister
    This includes preparation of replies to Parliamentary questions, and dealing with Official Information Act requests and other correspondence.

    A totally separate body, the Office of the Prime Minister, also advises the Prime Minister: it is the primary point of responsibility for managing political issues and relationships with other political parties and for providing administrative and media support.

    _______________________________________________________

    In brief, as I understand it, the Prime Minister has two roles, one as the Leader of the New Zealand Government, and the other as the Leader of ‘party political’ National Party.

    In his role as Leader of the New Zealand Government, the Prime Minister has the DPMC, to provide top level, impartial, apolitical advice on a range of matters, including those related to security.

    http://www.dpmc.govt.nz/

    ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT

    About the Department
    The Role of DPMC
    The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) serves the Executive (the Governor-General, the Prime Minister and the Cabinet) through the provision of high quality impartial advice and support services…

    ________________________________________________

    The Office of the Prime Minister, the role of which is apparently not covered by statute or regulation, is deeply ‘politically partisan / party political’, to help cover the Prime Minister as Leader of the National Party.

    It is my considered opinion, that it is fundamentally wrong for the politically partisan ‘Office of the Prime Minister’ to have dealings with the SIS, at any time.

    In my considered opinion, if the SIS is in direct contact with the ‘party political’ Office of the Prime Minister – then the role of the SIS has become ‘politicised’ – end of story.

    In my opinion, for whatever reason, clear lines of demarcation between the roles of the DPMC and Office of the Prime Minister are effectively non-existent.

    Not only is the role of the Office of the Prime Minister not subject to statute or regulation, it also lacks procedures and protocols, as is clearly stated in the attached OIA reply from Wayne Eagleson, Chief of Staff of the Office of the Prime Minister.

    (Why anyone from the Office of the Prime Minister, including the Chief of Staff Wayne Eagleson is answering Official Information Act requests, is also a real matter of concern, as it is NOT his job, as i understand it.)

    I am not sure whether your ‘terms of reference’ into the current inquiry which I understand you launched at your own initiative, extend to covering the role of the Office of the Prime Minister, but in my considered opinion, if they don’t – they should, because therein lies this apparently deep-seated problem.

    Which is – in my considered opinion – that the Office of the Prime Minister is completely out of control.

    If the role of the Office of the Prime Minister is not set by statute or regulation – then that needs to change – URGENTLY.

    FYI, following is a ‘MEDIA ALERT’ which I sent out yesterday on this matter:
    ______________________________________________________________________________________

    11 September 2014

    MEDIA ALERT!

    Is the politically partisan Office of the Prime Minister actually ‘out of control’?

    YES according to this OIA reply, received today 11 September 2014, by Prime Minister John Key’s Chief of Staff, Wayne Eagleson: (attached)

    3) Copies of the ‘procedure’ or ‘protocol(s)’ to be followed by all staff attached to or employed by the Office of the Prime Minister.

    There are no specific procedures or protocols to be followed by Ministerial office staff.

    4) A copy of the organisational ‘flow chart’ (or the like) which shows the clear reporting framework to be followed by all staff in your Office of the Prime Minister.

    There is no organisational chart for this Office and, accordingly, this part of your request is formally declined under section 18(e) of the Official Information Act “that the document alleged to contain the information requested does not exist or cannot be found”.

    5) A copy of the budget for your Office of the Prime Minister, with a clear breakdown of monies paid by whom, for what, on an annual basis from 2008 – 2014.

    There is no separate budget for the Office of the Prime Minister.
    The Department of Internal Affairs has a budget for all Ministerial offices as a whole, but not for individual offices.

    However, I can confirm that all staff in this Office report to me as the Chief of Staff for both the Office of the Prime Minister and the Office of the Leader of the Parliamentary National Party.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________

    As some one who has never been able to get a copy of my SIS file, and could not get it ‘confirmed or denied’ that I was one of the 88 New Zealanders upon whom the GCSB unlawfully spied upon, I am REALLY concerned with the revelations contained within this OIA reply.

    Is anybody else?

    If not – why not?

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’
    ………………………………
    • Chooky 22.1

      25 November 2014 at 8:22 pm

      +1000….Thanks Penny…I always enjoy your thought provoking missives…and yes I think most of us are very concerned that this is becoming a corruption ridden totalitarian surveillance state and not accountable to anyone except John Key and friends

      …i guess if you were one of the 88…you will now be joined by many more
23. Ecosse_Maidy 23

    25 November 2014 at 7:39 pm

    Oh that pic,I thought was a caption competition…a young Mr Keys shows he cant remember where he was when the rugger was on and showed off to a waiting media his finger transplant was a stunning success….
24. Tracey 24

    25 November 2014 at 7:42 pm

    calling peter dunne
    calling maori party

    yoooo hooooooooooo
25. dave 25

    25 November 2014 at 7:49 pm

    anyone up for protest outside john keys house to demand his resignation ???
    • Weepus beard 25.1

      25 November 2014 at 8:01 pm

      Can’t be done apparently. We’d ruin Max’s beauty sleep.
26. Neil 26

    25 November 2014 at 8:30 pm

    BREAKING NEWS:
    John Key has come clean & just revealed that Moonbeam was the mastermind of the dirty politics to smear the opposition & how moonbeam controlled the staff of the PM’s office by instructing the PMs staff on what to do via hypnotism.
    • Chooky 26.1

      25 November 2014 at 8:54 pm

      lol….Moonbeam says this is sheer lunacy and he is a lunatic…all the cats in the street know this…
27. Clemgeopin 27

    25 November 2014 at 8:59 pm

    I can understand that Key has no morals or integrity.
    What concerns me even more is what about the rest of the National MPs? Do they too have no sense of right and wrong? No conscience, integrity and courage to speak up? From not a single one of them? And what about National’s coalition partners, ACT, Dunne and the two Maori Party MPs? Where is the outrage and guts from them!
    • weka 27.1

      25 November 2014 at 11:04 pm

      Self-preservation is a mighty motivator.

      Pretty sure that National will have been active for a long time in making sure they never end up with another Marilyn Waring.
28. North 28

    25 November 2014 at 9:10 pm

    TheGodKey’s entering the Nixonian ‘manic pacing in the Rose Garden’ phase.

    Even Sean Plunket and Matthew Hooton have sorted it. “Black is white, white is black, everyone’s wrong…….the suckers’ll buy it !”

    Wow…….psychosis in Wellington. And on Waiheke, a small Boag crys.
29. ankerawshark 29

    25 November 2014 at 9:20 pm

    Clem @ 27, Yes Bill English, a practicing Catholic. Shame on you Bill
30. The lost sheep 30

    25 November 2014 at 9:24 pm

    I lived in a very small isolated community for quite a few years, and the powerful effect this particular situation had on your world view and sanity was well recognised by the locals.
    One saying you’d hear a lot, usually about 2/3rd’s of the way through the long dark Winter, was…
    “How do you know when it’s time to get out of here?”
    There was a list of about 10 qualifications, but the one I had in mind was..
    “There is a person you hate and believe is responsible for most, if not all of the s&*t in your life, and you spend more than 1/4 of your waking time thinking about them”

    Just saying. Maybe some of you would benefit from obsessing less about JK within the same tiny community, and more time out talking to a wider range of Kiwi’s?

    It might help you understand for instance why the dirty politics thing actually increases support for JK?
    • instauration 30.1

      25 November 2014 at 9:45 pm

      Like – what and how much did those dudes in the trenches think about the Kaiser ?
      I suspect you apportions are about right.
      Evil should always be despised.
      And if you can’t “get out of here” – you deal to evil in the way prescribed.
    • ankerawshark 30.2

      25 November 2014 at 10:59 pm

      The lost sheep………..actually I don’t spend more than 1/4 of my life obsessing about John Key. Lots of other things that capture my head space. Good things. But Feel morally bound to follow what’s going on in this country politically and I have found the best place to do that is theStandard. Not tv3 or The NZ Herald.
    • Weepus beard 30.3

      25 November 2014 at 11:00 pm

      Could you please tell me how to get out of here?

      It’s time.
      • The lost sheep 30.3.1

        26 November 2014 at 7:38 am

        In that very small community the standard procedure when you recognised you were suffering from smalltownitis was to take a decent holiday somewhere a long way away and very different. A ‘mental health’ break.
        That does ease the symptoms for a short while.

        But only one way to truly leave mate.
        You’ve got to walk out that door, and NEVER go back.

        Any ex-pat of that very small community I was talking about will tell you that within only a few weeks of getting out, they were astonished at how totally they used to be wrapped up in such a tiny sphere, and how quickly their worldview opened up once they were out.
        My favourite quote from an ex-pat is “used to think that goldfish bowl was the whole damn Ocean.”
        • Tracey 30.3.1.1

          26 November 2014 at 2:56 pm

          And yet here you are, in your alleged small town pimping for the mayor of the big city. Wash your hands on the way in next time.
          • The lost sheep 30.3.1.1.1

            27 November 2014 at 1:25 pm

            You’ve lost me there completely?

            I no longer live in a small town and I don’t know how anything I’ve said suggests I am pimping for the mayor of any big city?

            By the way, you don’t think you are obsessive about JK do you? You sure do spend a lot of time each day writing about him.
31. instauration 31

    25 November 2014 at 10:00 pm

    Hey Lynn – hope I’m contributing to to necessary load for you to diagnose the moderation / rogue module issue.
32. Clemgeopin 32

    25 November 2014 at 10:34 pm

    Hear what Goff has to say to Shaun Plunket here:

    LINK : radiolive
    • Chooky 32.1

      25 November 2014 at 10:45 pm

      +100 thanks Clem..is this the one you mean? …very interesting…Phil Goff quite angry and indignant

      http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Phil-Goff-says-hes-vindicated-after-3-years/tabid/506/articleID/62754/Default.aspx
      • Clemgeopin 32.1.1

        25 November 2014 at 10:58 pm

        Oops, yes, Chooky!
        Don’t know how that happened? I thought I had the correct link!
33. mike 33

    25 November 2014 at 10:54 pm

    Yeah right, good luck with this conspiracist crap. It worked well for you in the election! Dont the left ever learn?
    • Weepus beard 33.1

      25 November 2014 at 11:02 pm

      Not with you as a tutor!
34. GregJ 34

    25 November 2014 at 11:07 pm

    To quote Leo Amery quoting Oliver Cromwell:

    “You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.”
35. Whateva next? 35

    26 November 2014 at 7:20 am

    The snowball is started by Little and Norman yesterday in parliament, the people cannot unhear Little’s words again this morning on Morning report, and key’s bumbling, obfuscation shortly afterwards, thank God he’s going
    • Chooky 35.1

      26 November 2014 at 8:51 am

      Little is an extraordinarily impressive speaker in Parliament…certainly the right choice as Leader of the Labour Party!…like an old style Labour Leader

      Winston Peters also very impressive on Morning Report !….John Key not asked about what he knew ….big flaws/omissions in the Gwyn inquiry

      Norman is also coolly impressive calling for John Key’s resignation!…and calling for a Royal Commission of Inquiry

      …. imo the Left should unite calling for a Royal Commission to explore in detail what the Gwyn Report did not examine ie John key’s role..what he knew …what evidence Jason Ede destroyed etc…there needs to be accountability at the highest levels of New Zealand government

      …after all Labour probably lost the 2011 Election because of this corruption and smearing of Goff….which goes right to the top of the John Key Nact government and the SIS…..and a black ops PR spinner operator Slater , who won an award for his work in Israel!!!!….(.and this whole issue blew up over Israeli spies in Christchurch during the Earthquake)….There are BIG questions here yet to be answered

      …imo the SIS must not be given warrantless powers to intrude into New Zealanders’ lives…this is an invitation to more lack of accountability, privatisation of surveillance contracts, blackops and abuse of power such as New Zealanders have just witnessed
36. Sable 36

    26 November 2014 at 10:40 am

    Maybe time to call a new “clean” election. Chance would be a fine thing…

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