A Socialist perspective on Brexit, the European Union and the coup on Corbyn

27 comments on “A Socialist perspective on Brexit, the European Union and the coup on Corbyn ”

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1. JNZ 1

   29 June 2016 at 7:56 am

   Brexit: It’s not us, it’s EU

   The people have spoken, and what do they say?
   A simple majority from the UK
   Declared independence from that wobbly EU
   “Our pound remains free, and soon we will be too.”
   No thanks, we’re British! United we stand!
   (just don’t ask those stirrers, the Scots and Ireland).

   Our life’s getting worse; our economy’s tanking
   For this, all in all, it’s the EU we’re thanking
   When decisions are made without our consultation
   The tyrants should be from our very own nation
   It’s all of these immigrants causing the mess
   Bordering doom for our nation’s success.

   So, so long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, pet
   The lawyers will sort it somehow – no clue yet
   The markets may tumble, but what can we do?
   It just isn’t working – it’s not us, it’s EU
   Democracy’s triumph, in bright royal blue
   Take care what you vote for, it might just come true.

   http://minimalistmum.blogspot.co.nz/2016/06/brexit-its-not-us-its-eu.html
2. Richardrawshark 2

   29 June 2016 at 9:58 am

   A Marxist Critique?

   Facebook says a group of anti capitalist students and workers.

   Right.

   Download of find by Author, Agim Musta, Title ” Prisons of Communist Dictatorship in the republic of Albania”

   If you cannot find it I have a cope here.

   It’s in both Albanian and English he’s a friend and wrote the book in both languages as he’s multilingual. My copy stays here it’s autographed and dedicated.

   I would be pleased to show you anytime and explain to you the truth of communism as seen in reality.

   Fairy tales envelop both ends of political ideologies.
   • McFlock 2.1

     29 June 2016 at 11:50 am

     Funny how these topics run in cycles.

     In my experience, bringing up gulags with full-blown communi1sts results in a “no true scotsman” fallacy – obviously these states weren’t the utopian ideal, therefore they were failed attempts to transition to that utopian ideal, therefore marx’s predictions are still correct.

     However, as I’ve recently discussed elsewhere, even though his predctions sucked donkeyballs, Marx’s research into capitalism and his documentation of its effects on workers is bang on and incredibly valuable.

     The descriptions of the conflict and structural issues are bang-on, even if his solutions are way off.
     • Craig H 2.1.1

       29 June 2016 at 11:58 am

       Bang on, fully agree.

       Also, Adam Smith was a lot less of a free marketeer than most people realise – he supported progressive taxation, for example, and warned of the effects of rentier capitalism and inequality.
3. Adrian Thornton 3

   29 June 2016 at 10:15 am

   It is, in my opinion, the coup on Corbyn, is one the most positive things to happen in the aftermath of Brexit,
   Now the battle lines have really been drawn, the new (old) progressive Left under Corbyn, or the old new left centrist’s. That is what has long been needed there, and here.
   The question we have to ask our selves, (as they are about to in the UK) is do we want to support a centrist Labour Party that as it stands, offers very little substantive change
   over national.
   Or do we have the strength of our convictions enough, to stand up to power left and right and say none of this neo liberal centrist politicking has worked for the people, it never has and it never will.
   Are we strong enough, can we unite enough to demand REAL change, not this flimsy stuff around the edges we are always being offered, but fundamental changes to the rotten structure that precariously sways above of heads, threatening to collapse upon us all at any moment?
   Because lets be honest, labour today, at best would only slow the rot, but surly it is plainly obvious, major repairs need to be made…and soon.
   • Jenny Kirk 3.1

     29 June 2016 at 10:30 am

     Major repairs have been made, and continue to be made, within NZ Labour, Adrian Thornton – you have obviously just not kept up with them.
     • Adrian Thornton 3.1.1

       29 June 2016 at 10:35 am

       Such as…
       • xanthe 3.1.1.1

         29 June 2016 at 11:38 am

         Such as…
         • Jenny Kirk 3.1.1.1.1

           29 June 2016 at 12:05 pm

           how about both of you doing your own bit of research – via online media, The Standard posts, NZLabour Party website and NZLP Facebook site ? ?

           By the way – this socialist Lexit forum noted above is for tomorrow night.
           • adam 3.1.1.1.1.1

             29 June 2016 at 12:21 pm

             Do your own research is a sad argument Jenny Kirk.

             I looked at what you suggested, and I’m still convinced labour is a liberal party having more in common with the national party – than having a Owenites vision.
           • KJT 3.1.1.1.1.2

             29 June 2016 at 5:08 pm

             Done my own research already.

             Labour has said, to an audience of employers, that they will keep the 90 day, fire at rule law.
             Little has, after a lot of prevarication, that they would stay in the TPPA.
             The Labour caucus promptly removed the first leader, since Kirk, who went slightly into the socialist Labour tradition.

             Basically Labour in Parliament are a bunch of arrogant careerists who are too scared to rock the boat while waiting for their turn in dictatorship.

             Like the UK, any democratic power gained by the membership, or voters as a whole, is a source of anxiety, to be slapped down as fast as possible.
             • Colonial Viper …

               29 June 2016 at 5:58 pm

               I expect the result of Labour’s “efforts” to come in at 25% +/-3% in the General Election next year.

               Basically, people see no real alternatives to National being offered, just minor differences in detail which matter to hardly any one outside of the Thorndon Bubble.
       • Craig H 3.1.1.2

         29 June 2016 at 12:10 pm

         I only joined Labour after the last election, but to me, the policies are moving in the left direction, there is real member engagement, Andrew Little has pulled the caucus and wider party together, and there is more unity and less infighting than in a long time. Constitutional changes have been and are being made to further those aims.

         The Future of Work commission shows me that Labour are trying to plan for an uncertain future from the perspective of the workers, and they are engaging with a wider audience around that.

         Could it be better? Sure, but it’s still pretty good, and is important to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
         • xanthe 3.1.1.2.1

           29 June 2016 at 12:43 pm

           How about not let the lesser of two evils be the enemy of of the good?

           either we invest our way to economic growth, inequality, and major degredation of the biosphere or we dont.

           I see no indication that Labour understands or gives a rats arse about that choice,

           Its about changing the very basis of our economy and the use n creation of money. Nothing else will make any difference … lesser of two evils just aint gonna cut it
           • Adrian 3.1.1.2.1.1

             29 June 2016 at 5:02 pm

             I agree, the time for negotiating with our captors (centre right) has past, the Left need to fight this battle out in the open, the people and ( I know how this sounds, but it is unfortunately now a reality ) the Earth, can’t take the punishment that the current economic ideology relentlessly meters out.. we must have a Labour that will actively promote fundamental changes for us our children and the very viability of a healthy planet into the future.
             Somehow we have to turn the current narrative on it’s head, the Right should be coming to the Left, cap in hand asking for our approval for their policies, and not the other way around…like it is now, it’s pathetic.
             • red-blooded …

               29 June 2016 at 6:21 pm

               “the Left need to fight this battle out in the open”

               Oh come on, Adrian, we in the Left are ALWAYS fighting our battles out in the open. That’s in large part why we don’t often win in the battle against the Right, who may well battle away behind closed doors, but who are much better at presenting a united front to the general public; and let’s remember, it’s the public who decide the government and we know from bitter experience that the public don’t trust a party or potential set of coalition partners who are “fighting out in the open”. Fighting to be ideologically pure is one thing; getting the chance to enact even some of the policies based on your ideology is another. That’s why I’m so keen on the Labour-Green agreement and that’s why I work inside the Labour Party to try and influence policy. It’s not perfect, but it’s sure as hell better than the alternative.
               • Adrian …

                 29 June 2016 at 6:47 pm

                 Oh come on RB….
                 I strongly disagree that ‘fighting out in the open’ is not what the public want to see.
                 Both Sanders and Corbyn fought their battles very much in the open.
                 Battle lines drawn in the sand early on, both quickly gained the high ground, and consequently were both almost untouchable from attack, from either their opponents or the media (also their opponents as it turns out).
                 That is the way forward I believe.
                 We have got to stop cowering to a perceived public opinion.
                 • Stuart Nash …

                   18 July 2016 at 9:30 pm

                   Tell me Adrian, how’s it all worked out for Corbyn and Saunders?
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     18 July 2016 at 9:38 pm

                     Tell me Stuart, given that the NZ Labour caucus would hate to see the ordinary membership of the Labour Party swell by tens of thousands, how do you think its gone for Corbyn, who has managed to attract tens of thousands of new sign ups to the UK Labour Party per week?
                   • Adrian Thornton …

                     18 July 2016 at 10:56 pm

                     Well if you are the Stuart Nash of Napier who is responsible for the following quote…
                     “Let’s be clear about one thing: politics is about winning. There is no such thing as a ‘glorious defeat’, leaders who lose are not, as some may believe, ‘martyrs to the cause’, and ‘coming second but maintaining our principles’ is a ludicrous proposition.”
                     … in light of that, I am not that I am not wasting my time in explaining what an extraordinary shift these two highly principled politicians have and are making in Left wing politics, but then I guess you really wouldn’t want to see that, because then you would know that your type of Third Way centrist ideology is about to be consigned to the history books as a complete failure.
                     You should probably also keep in mind that Sanders gained more votes than Trump, all the while facing either negative or no media coverage throughout most of that primary race (also battling the establishment DMC) In an even unbiased race most people who followed the primary contest with their eyes open, would say Sanders probably would have won.
                     100.000 new members since brexit, nearly all to support Corbyn, I would say he is doing extremely well. The neo lib centrist’s are now so scared of their own members they are doing what ever they can to stop them from voting…it’s pathetic, but unsurprising to watch unfold.
                   • Chris …

                     19 July 2016 at 2:28 am

                     Are you saying the same thing has in some way happened for both of them / that there’s some similarity etc?
               • Colonial Viper …

                 29 June 2016 at 7:06 pm

                 Labour Party doesn’t have an ideology any more, except to win, and to not let other parties win.
                 • Adrian Thornton …

                   30 June 2016 at 9:26 am

                   Yes you are quite right, I have some where in my files Nash saying that exact thing about himself, something along the lines of….that winning is the most important thing, and that you would be a fool to lose by taking a moral stand.
                   Shocking yes, but I do appreciated his honesty, at lest we now know he has. by his own admission, no real moral compass, and that he can be brought to achieve a victory….is this the sort of Labour Party we want?
                 • Craig H …

                   2 July 2016 at 9:02 pm

                   Given how awful National is, I have sympathy for that viewpoint, even though it’s not one I hold personally.
           • KJT 3.1.1.2.1.2

             29 June 2016 at 5:11 pm

             Better hurry up then.

             Once the TPPA is done and dusted any socialist policies will be too expensive to see the light of day.

             It will be immaterial who gets in once we are re-colonised by corporations.
4. Xanthe 4

   29 June 2016 at 7:29 pm

   Here is a little graphic that explains the issues .
   https://twitter.com/Fredlook1/status/746832526258249728/photo/1
5. LoveLexit 5

   29 June 2016 at 11:44 pm

   This doco film is well worth a watch…

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq72f81kkM4

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