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	<title>Comments on: Ad-men</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:16:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108987</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108987</guid>
		<description>ak: Actually not quite. But I&#039;m getting close again. 

I was clean for a couple of months. However I relapsed during the campaign. I&#039;d neglected to get rid of the linkage between smoking and programming at home. So when I started to seriously do some work on campaigning tools during the weekends and evenings, I found I couldn&#039;t code there and I had to get the code out in time for the campaigning. So I gave up fro the blog and relapsed for the election campaign - see what politics does to you.

At present I&#039;m back down to a couple of rollies per day and about to shift back on to the patches. The target date for clean is the 23rd of December. That is when my namesake will get back from her sinking island and seriously start to get into harassment.

But I used to smoke a pack every other day, and a lot more when the code got difficult when I  was programming at home. The savings are quite extensive, (and dropped into a new addiction - blogging).

BTW: &lt;a href=&#039;http://www.quit.co.nz/page/index.php&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;QuitLine&lt;/a&gt; are awesome</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ak: Actually not quite. But I&#8217;m getting close again. </p>
<p>I was clean for a couple of months. However I relapsed during the campaign. I&#8217;d neglected to get rid of the linkage between smoking and programming at home. So when I started to seriously do some work on campaigning tools during the weekends and evenings, I found I couldn&#8217;t code there and I had to get the code out in time for the campaigning. So I gave up fro the blog and relapsed for the election campaign &#8211; see what politics does to you.</p>
<p>At present I&#8217;m back down to a couple of rollies per day and about to shift back on to the patches. The target date for clean is the 23rd of December. That is when my namesake will get back from her sinking island and seriously start to get into harassment.</p>
<p>But I used to smoke a pack every other day, and a lot more when the code got difficult when I  was programming at home. The savings are quite extensive, (and dropped into a new addiction &#8211; blogging).</p>
<p>BTW: <a href='http://www.quit.co.nz/page/index.php' rel="nofollow">QuitLine</a> are awesome</p>
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		<title>By: Logie97</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108986</link>
		<dc:creator>Logie97</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108986</guid>
		<description>Brilliant as long as the advertisers cannot dictate editorial content - and if you can make enough extra how about developing a left-wing radio station to counter the crap that parades as balance at the moment.  Am sick of hearing the likes of Smith, Holmes, Williams, Russell, Jackson, Tamehere, and even Jim Mora&#039;s panel generally has right to extreme right wingers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant as long as the advertisers cannot dictate editorial content &#8211; and if you can make enough extra how about developing a left-wing radio station to counter the crap that parades as balance at the moment.  Am sick of hearing the likes of Smith, Holmes, Williams, Russell, Jackson, Tamehere, and even Jim Mora&#8217;s panel generally has right to extreme right wingers.</p>
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		<title>By: ak</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108983</link>
		<dc:creator>ak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108983</guid>
		<description>Tane: &lt;em&gt;Yeah, we thought about that but didn&#039;t like the idea of being accountable to anyone... :)&lt;/em&gt;

Don&#039;t flinch now brothers and sisters: you&#039;ve set The Standard, assume the position and shoulder arms!   Spare a thought for the bones you stand on who enjoyed the following wee ditty and be accountable only to them.  And let the rest of us contribute (Lynn, you kicked nicotine for the cause - I&#039;m in awe...greater love hath no man than this.....)   

The people&#039;s flag is deepest red,
It shrouded oft our martyred dead,
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their hearts blood dyed its every fold.

Then raise the scarlet standard high.  (chorus)
Within its shade we&#039;ll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We&#039;ll keep the red flag flying here.

It waved above our infant might,
When all ahead seemed dark as night;
It witnessed many a deed and vow,
We must not change its colour now.

It well recalls the triumphs past,
It gives the hope of peace at last;
The banner bright, the symbol plain,
Of human right and human gain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tane: <em>Yeah, we thought about that but didn&#8217;t like the idea of being accountable to anyone&#8230; <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </em></p>
<p>Don&#8217;t flinch now brothers and sisters: you&#8217;ve set The Standard, assume the position and shoulder arms!   Spare a thought for the bones you stand on who enjoyed the following wee ditty and be accountable only to them.  And let the rest of us contribute (Lynn, you kicked nicotine for the cause &#8211; I&#8217;m in awe&#8230;greater love hath no man than this&#8230;..)   </p>
<p>The people&#8217;s flag is deepest red,<br />
It shrouded oft our martyred dead,<br />
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,<br />
Their hearts blood dyed its every fold.</p>
<p>Then raise the scarlet standard high.  (chorus)<br />
Within its shade we&#8217;ll live and die,<br />
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,<br />
We&#8217;ll keep the red flag flying here.</p>
<p>It waved above our infant might,<br />
When all ahead seemed dark as night;<br />
It witnessed many a deed and vow,<br />
We must not change its colour now.</p>
<p>It well recalls the triumphs past,<br />
It gives the hope of peace at last;<br />
The banner bright, the symbol plain,<br />
Of human right and human gain.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex Widerstrom</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108978</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex Widerstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108978</guid>
		<description>Lynn you shameless class traitor, you. Accepting the filthy coin of the capitalist oppressor again?! Off to the re-education camp with you, m&#039;boy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lynn you shameless class traitor, you. Accepting the filthy coin of the capitalist oppressor again?! Off to the re-education camp with you, m&#8217;boy.</p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108977</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108977</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://akismet.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Akismet&lt;/a&gt; has protected your site from 82,720 spam comments already, but there&#039;s nothing in your spam queue at the moment.&quot;

&lt;/em&gt;Yep there is a lot of &lt;strong&gt;real&lt;/strong&gt; crap in the net.. Don&#039;t see much of anymore because of Akismet. Gone are the days of 50 or so in the comments queue in the morning. I&#039;d like to help pay them as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;<a href="http://akismet.com/" rel="nofollow">Akismet</a> has protected your site from 82,720 spam comments already, but there&#8217;s nothing in your spam queue at the moment.&#8221;</p>
<p></em>Yep there is a lot of <strong>real</strong> crap in the net.. Don&#8217;t see much of anymore because of Akismet. Gone are the days of 50 or so in the comments queue in the morning. I&#8217;d like to help pay them as well.</p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108975</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108975</guid>
		<description>mike et al:

Nope - I&#039;m still paying for it as I always have done for when it needs to be paid for. But it does cost to run the site currently ~160+GST per month. But I have no more room to optimize the site and when it hits election week levels again (probably about May looking at last years profile), it will start running slow as.

This is the first real chance that we&#039;ve had to look ahead since we launched the prototype site last august. This is a long-term project. Hell - the original intent was to get this thing viable before the next election. It kind of took off on us.

What we&#039;re looking at is the probable growth curves. At this point we have done 2066 published posts and over 69k comments (after the spam and banned are removed - they&#039;d have at least been doubled it before we got them under control and out of the database). 

This is in 14 months, while our second favourite (and my favourite) party was in government - which is a bit limiting for a blog. I&#039;d expect that with a nice fat juicy target for comment like the NACT government that this partizan&#039;s blog will grow even faster. As it is the comments and posts are steadily increasing (and we still get complaints about lack of posts). Our average page views have been increasing by over 5% per month and haven&#039;t fallen back far since the election spike. 

You have to remember that the next step on the server side will probably double the money costs which starts to hurt my budget a bit. Essentially I can&#039;t justify that easily - the last cost double I justified by giving up smoking. 

I and probably the others would also like some more space for other web projects. This seems like a logical next step. The alternatives are to set up voluntary payments or look for sponsors. Advertising looks like the simplest, least intrusive, and least likely to cause editorial issues.

Whatever we do, then it will be done with the same level of discrimination that the style police (a_y_b) allow me to get away with - been known to edit my css because it hurts the eyes (Mac people are SO fussy).

Lynn

BTW: Rex - I just came back from having a beer with the guy at Galbraiths.... I&#039;m (usually) nice about people who buy me a beer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mike et al:</p>
<p>Nope &#8211; I&#8217;m still paying for it as I always have done for when it needs to be paid for. But it does cost to run the site currently ~160+GST per month. But I have no more room to optimize the site and when it hits election week levels again (probably about May looking at last years profile), it will start running slow as.</p>
<p>This is the first real chance that we&#8217;ve had to look ahead since we launched the prototype site last august. This is a long-term project. Hell &#8211; the original intent was to get this thing viable before the next election. It kind of took off on us.</p>
<p>What we&#8217;re looking at is the probable growth curves. At this point we have done 2066 published posts and over 69k comments (after the spam and banned are removed &#8211; they&#8217;d have at least been doubled it before we got them under control and out of the database). </p>
<p>This is in 14 months, while our second favourite (and my favourite) party was in government &#8211; which is a bit limiting for a blog. I&#8217;d expect that with a nice fat juicy target for comment like the NACT government that this partizan&#8217;s blog will grow even faster. As it is the comments and posts are steadily increasing (and we still get complaints about lack of posts). Our average page views have been increasing by over 5% per month and haven&#8217;t fallen back far since the election spike. </p>
<p>You have to remember that the next step on the server side will probably double the money costs which starts to hurt my budget a bit. Essentially I can&#8217;t justify that easily &#8211; the last cost double I justified by giving up smoking. </p>
<p>I and probably the others would also like some more space for other web projects. This seems like a logical next step. The alternatives are to set up voluntary payments or look for sponsors. Advertising looks like the simplest, least intrusive, and least likely to cause editorial issues.</p>
<p>Whatever we do, then it will be done with the same level of discrimination that the style police (a_y_b) allow me to get away with &#8211; been known to edit my css because it hurts the eyes (Mac people are SO fussy).</p>
<p>Lynn</p>
<p>BTW: Rex &#8211; I just came back from having a beer with the guy at Galbraiths&#8230;. I&#8217;m (usually) nice about people who buy me a beer.</p>
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		<title>By: Murray</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108972</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108972</guid>
		<description>All the lefties that comment here could donate their tax cuts to keep the site going.  That is, assuming you actually work and pay taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the lefties that comment here could donate their tax cuts to keep the site going.  That is, assuming you actually work and pay taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Dale</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108971</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108971</guid>
		<description>You guys should run, there is nothing wrong with that? Or maybe do what the democratic underground (the DU) does, and have a donation drive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys should run, there is nothing wrong with that? Or maybe do what the democratic underground (the DU) does, and have a donation drive.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108969</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108969</guid>
		<description>Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.....the slippery slope I see. Take an advert and sooner or later youll piss them off with some comment and then comes the real crunch...........

You either soften your attitude on the particular subject that upset them - or lose the advert.  Commercial reality.
And youll only be getting a pretty limited group of potential customers (welfare addicts, ex government MP&#039;s, counsellors, etc) and they have a habbit of NEVER forgetting -so you might be geting into dangerous waters.

However if your previous sources are drying up........................</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh&#8230;..the slippery slope I see. Take an advert and sooner or later youll piss them off with some comment and then comes the real crunch&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>You either soften your attitude on the particular subject that upset them &#8211; or lose the advert.  Commercial reality.<br />
And youll only be getting a pretty limited group of potential customers (welfare addicts, ex government MP&#8217;s, counsellors, etc) and they have a habbit of NEVER forgetting -so you might be geting into dangerous waters.</p>
<p>However if your previous sources are drying up&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: illuminatedtiger</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108961</link>
		<dc:creator>illuminatedtiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 07:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108961</guid>
		<description>If The Standard runs ads they won&#039;t be of any concern to me (I&#039;ve got a good Firefox plugin which deals to them) however if it&#039;s money you need have you considered opening a Paypal account and accepting donations? I know I would throw in a tenner for the valuable service you provide to the New Zealand political landscape. 

If you do place ads on The Standard you may want to consider situations that could put you at risk with your advertisers. We all know the classic example of the blog that focused exclusively on posting filth (in my opinion), and subsequently lost it&#039;s NZ advertisers. While nobody would ever try to place The Standard at such low levels the question on my mind is whether you would not post something that you knew would put you at odds with your advertisers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If The Standard runs ads they won&#8217;t be of any concern to me (I&#8217;ve got a good Firefox plugin which deals to them) however if it&#8217;s money you need have you considered opening a Paypal account and accepting donations? I know I would throw in a tenner for the valuable service you provide to the New Zealand political landscape. </p>
<p>If you do place ads on The Standard you may want to consider situations that could put you at risk with your advertisers. We all know the classic example of the blog that focused exclusively on posting filth (in my opinion), and subsequently lost it&#8217;s NZ advertisers. While nobody would ever try to place The Standard at such low levels the question on my mind is whether you would not post something that you knew would put you at odds with your advertisers.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-2/#comment-108958</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 06:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108958</guid>
		<description>why not - if there is a funding shortfall, the money  has to come from somewhere</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why not &#8211; if there is a funding shortfall, the money  has to come from somewhere</p>
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		<title>By: Quoth the Raven</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-1/#comment-108936</link>
		<dc:creator>Quoth the Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108936</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t care either way. I never take notice of them anyway.

&lt;i&gt;I can almost see an ad like this coming: &quot;Have a great holiday. Come to Cuba!&#039;&lt;/i&gt;

Why not? It&#039;s a beautiful country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t care either way. I never take notice of them anyway.</p>
<p><i>I can almost see an ad like this coming: &#8220;Have a great holiday. Come to Cuba!&#8217;</i></p>
<p>Why not? It&#8217;s a beautiful country.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex Widerstrom</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-1/#comment-108934</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex Widerstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108934</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll keep it short and sweet -- Family. Religion. Friendship. These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business.

- C Montgomery Burns :-D

Bearing that sage advice in mind, by all means go for it. But I must disagree with ak. I don&#039;t want to hear from the likes of Trotter and I can read Campbell elsewhere. I come here to read IrishBill and Tane, AYB and lprent and even, yes, Steve Pierson et al, all of whom manage to produce more cogent and better researched arguments than Trotter on his best day. And you guys have something fresh to say which in turn sets commenters off in different directions, making this a pot pourri (or soup, if you&#039;d prefer) of debate rather than a dull drone of complete agreement punctuated by an occasional wild outburst of abuse, which is all Trotter&#039;s tired claptrap can usually motivate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll keep it short and sweet &#8212; Family. Religion. Friendship. These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business.</p>
<p>- C Montgomery Burns <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Bearing that sage advice in mind, by all means go for it. But I must disagree with ak. I don&#8217;t want to hear from the likes of Trotter and I can read Campbell elsewhere. I come here to read IrishBill and Tane, AYB and lprent and even, yes, Steve Pierson et al, all of whom manage to produce more cogent and better researched arguments than Trotter on his best day. And you guys have something fresh to say which in turn sets commenters off in different directions, making this a pot pourri (or soup, if you&#8217;d prefer) of debate rather than a dull drone of complete agreement punctuated by an occasional wild outburst of abuse, which is all Trotter&#8217;s tired claptrap can usually motivate.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Magoo</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-1/#comment-108932</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Magoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108932</guid>
		<description>I thought you already were and I had just ignored it like I do every other piece of advertising. :)

But seriously, why are you not already doing it?? You have costs to cover.

As long as articles that may have a conflict of interest are disclaimered in the first line, which is standard practice among reputable places, then how can there be a problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought you already were and I had just ignored it like I do every other piece of advertising. <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But seriously, why are you not already doing it?? You have costs to cover.</p>
<p>As long as articles that may have a conflict of interest are disclaimered in the first line, which is standard practice among reputable places, then how can there be a problem?</p>
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		<title>By: ak</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ad-men/comment-page-1/#comment-108931</link>
		<dc:creator>ak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6098#comment-108931</guid>
		<description>Abso-freakin-lutely - what r0b said and more: get yourselves out there, be ambitious for The Standard!   Like it or not, you&#039;ve become a vital and indispensable part of NZ politics, and I for one would be happy to pay for your excellent writing and analysis (not to mention Lynn&#039;s superb management)
  
How about a Friends of The Standard register and/or a donations/subscription facility so that us old rich pricks and prickesses can chip in?  Maybe more collaboration and guest posts from the likes of Hager, Trotter and Campbell - cartoons, video clips, paid investigative reporters of repute - heck, aim not to rival the Herald but to bury it!

&lt;b&gt;[Tane: Yeah, we thought about that but didn&#039;t like the idea of being accountable to anyone... :)]&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abso-freakin-lutely &#8211; what r0b said and more: get yourselves out there, be ambitious for The Standard!   Like it or not, you&#8217;ve become a vital and indispensable part of NZ politics, and I for one would be happy to pay for your excellent writing and analysis (not to mention Lynn&#8217;s superb management)</p>
<p>How about a Friends of The Standard register and/or a donations/subscription facility so that us old rich pricks and prickesses can chip in?  Maybe more collaboration and guest posts from the likes of Hager, Trotter and Campbell &#8211; cartoons, video clips, paid investigative reporters of repute &#8211; heck, aim not to rival the Herald but to bury it!</p>
<p><b>[Tane: Yeah, we thought about that but didn't like the idea of being accountable to anyone... <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ]</b></p>
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