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Amnesty!

Written By: - Date published: 12:19 am, March 16th, 2013 - 362 comments
Categories: The Standard - Tags:

Ah yes, we’ve banned a few folks in the many years we’ve been in the blogosphere (although far less than expected). Some with damn good reason and some in the heat of the moment. But now we’re all older and wiser it’s time to open the comments to all of you ratbags and see if we can’t work it out somehow.

With that in mind we’re cleaning the slate and welcoming back any and all that feel the urge to put their two cents here.

But just to be clear, the moderation rules still rule so please, take a deep breath and have a think before you commit your splendid thoughts to the comments box and hit “submit”…

lprent: And for those newly unbanned, please read the policy. Especially the bit about wasting the time of moderators.

362 comments on “Amnesty!”

  1. Naki nark 1

    Good on you TS! This is democracy!

    • Colonial Viper 1.2

      There goes the neighbourhood property values! :twisted:

    • Colonial Weka 1.3

      “This is democracy!”

      Er, no it’s not. It’s a mix of collective anarchism and benign dictatorship.

      Not to mention that democracy works within rules. Some of the behaviour I’ve seen here by people that end up banned wouldn’t be allowed in parliament (and that’s saying something). Nor would it survive in any group that I’ve been in that operates with democratic, one person one vote principles.

    • karol 1.4

      Democracy doesn’t mean anyone can enter someone else’s space and behave in ways unacceptable to the owners/managers and/or most of the users/customers. Many premises reserve the right to exclude people.

      It does mean you can set up your own site/space and express your views there.

      • mike 1.4.1

        On February 10th I was banned for two months for daring to ask why Zetetic (amongst others) insisted on writing anti-Labour posts on this site. In this case it was yet another poke at Trevor Mallard for his gall in criticising a pronouncement of Russell Norman, but there had previously been a string of rather petty attacks, and I wanted to express my feelings about it. Yes, exasperation led to a somewhat hyperbolic comment (I suggested he crawl under a stone, that he sounded like a chauvinist preacher shouting damnation from a pulpit) and I apologise for that, but the swift and terrible judgement that befell me was entirely unexpected. A hanging judge by the pseudonym of 1prent swooped in from cyberspace in a hail of bold black lettering and condemned me there and then. The judge claimed I had attacked a writer instead of the content. I believe I had addressed the content (hyperbole aside), I had criticised his constant carping attacks on the Labour party within what I had been led to believe was a liberal site. Nevertheless, I was sentenced to a two months ban and called an ‘arsehole’ and ‘a fool.’
        The judgement reminded me of that famous ruse amongst journalists when questioned about some opinion they’d expressed – ‘don’t shoot the messenger’ – which I’d always understood to mean ‘it’s alright for me to have an opinion about someone, but not for you to defend them’. But the tone of this judgement had a darker quality that I found quite eerie. It was a little like the screaming judge I’ve seen in newsreels from Berlin during the war, or the story of my friend who was a refuge from Allende’s Chile after Pinochet took over. Her abusive husband was a unionist and activist but when she finally left him he stabbed her. She recovered, thankfully, and came to the very cogent political realisation that her husband was a socialist on the street and a fascist at home. Even when we embrace what we hope is the rational liberal world view we must guard against any tendency which might expose our extremist, bullying side. Strongly held beliefs can become fundamentalist and violent no matter from what direction they come.
        Interestingly, later in the thread I was excluded from, I was supported by none other than Stuart Nash, Te Reo Putake, and r0b, among others I respect, and it opened a very useful and pretty reasonable discussion with some hundreds of comments about the futility of constantly attacking our own, which included a hint that Zeteic was a Green voter. Many commentors on this site threaten to ‘change’ their vote to Green if the Labour Party doesn’t behave exactly as they’ve suggested it should. Why try to ride two horses? Make up your mind and support it proudly, don’t waste your time undermining others on your own side of the equation, but not in your party.

        As so many commentors pointed out – ‘that’s us’ – tearing ourselves to pieces over niceties, while the tories go to work syphoning everything off into their own pockets. We do their work for them! In the ’70′s another friend of mine was purged from the communist party for supporting China rather than Russia. They purged their members from 9 to 8. That’s purity for you. All I was asking in my criticism of Zetetic was to lay off the carping about a party you’re unlikely to vote for anyway. Sure criticism is not only good it’s vital, but bitching is not criticism. Let’s agree to disagree on details and focus instead on the real enemy, entrenched privilege and their irrational attack dogs.

        I was one of those lucky ones who, because of a Labour Government, grew up in a solid state house in the ’50s, availed myself of a free education provided for by a Labour Government, completed my university degrees and have lived the life of a free person. I am grateful for that, as my parents were, and what is so wrong about wanting that for others? However, politics is the art of the possible and many compromises were made even by the 1935 Labour Government. Terrible mistakes have been made in the name of the Labour Party amongst the great achievements, but, as Helen Clark says, ‘move on’ and try to influence the future for the better. There is no nirvana, only good intentions, and good will, and the Labour Party, in my view, warts and all, remains a movement of good intentions, to raise those who are struggling into a better life where they can provide for themselves and their families without the need for government encouragement.
        And if judge 1prent wants to ban this one – go for it – I’ll be the only one to notice.

        • lprent 1.4.1.1

          I believe I had addressed the content (hyperbole aside), I had criticised his constant carping attacks on the Labour party within what I had been led to believe was a liberal site. Nevertheless, I was sentenced to a two months ban and called an ‘arsehole’ and ‘a fool.’

          The fool part was because you hadn’t read the policy. Read the relevant section now because it is clear that you’ve been too lazy to do so.

          A partial list of these self-martyrdom offenses include:-

          Generally wasting a moderators time is just not a good idea. We’re there to deal with isolated problems. People persistently sucking up our voluntary time won’t like the results.

          Abusing the sysop or post writers on their own site – including telling us how to run our site or what we should write. This is viewed as self-evident stupidity, and should be added as a category to the Darwin Awards.

          Describing the site as having ulterior motivations, being a tool of someone, or generally being ignorant of where you have come to. When visiting a blog site it always pays to read the About pages before making a fool of yourself. Then you will know what the site is about. Failure to do so is just bad bad manners.

          As you said, you were banned for attacking Zet because you didn’t like what he decided to write. Yes you did address some of the issues, but the ONLY thing as a moderator that I looked at was that you were abusing Zet because of what he decided to write rather than refuting what he wrote. Authors are given logins specifically so they can write their views and others can disagree with them.. They are not brought in so you can attack them personally.

          The “arsehole” part – which obviously stuck in your memory – was to get you to feel exactly what authors feel when you have commentators calling them traitors or whatever. It is a pity that you appear to have not understood that lesson.

          So if you can’t live within the rules of the site, then start your own site with your own personal rules and attract your own audience and authors. But don’t act like a idiot bully here reeling from the same treatment you were dishing out. As a moderator I always try to return a taste of the why someone got banned. In this case I dealt back the same kind of personal attack to you as you were dishing them out to one of our authors. All I did was to just adjust the language for effect.

          Don’t tell us what to write. There are a range of authors on this site from anarchists through rusted-in NZLP stalwarts like Mike Smith through to nasty techno-geeks like myself. If you want different content then write stuff that makes us want to offer you a login (as unlikely as that seems) or team up with someone else or start your own blog and attract an audience.

        • QoT 1.4.1.2

          mike, I do love how you take pains to make it look like Lprent is some random force of nature with no mandate, swooping it to be a dick for no good reason. It really emphasises how badly you were done by … to people who have no idea how The Standard is operated.

    • Tom Gould 1.5

      No it’s not. It is freedom of expression. Democracy is a form of governance.

  2. felixviper 2

    An amnesty? Have you LOST IT man?

    • lprent 2.1

      I am assuming you weren’t actually talking to Notices and Features.

      Actually wasn’t me initiating this (for a change). See my comment here.

      But I would usually do one of these every few years. This one is rather overdue.

      About half of the unbanned don’t comment under anything recognizable and about half of those who do wind up with a ban for repeating the same behaviours that got them banned the previous time.

      However, you have to assume that periodically people have been known to grow up on the net and show a capacity for learning how to avoid the behaviours that drew moderator attention last time (or just learn to read the policy to the point of understanding what will draw our attention). A amnesty gives them the opportunity to display that.

      • Alanz 2.1.1

        Groan. I see this went up at 12:19am and you probably had a good Friday evening.
        However, the effect of that and having just read what you’ve written might ruin my Saturday morning.

      • Colonial Weka 2.1.2

        “and about half of those who do wind up with a ban for repeating the same behaviours that got them banned the previous time.”

        My groan was for the thought of PG posting here in the same manner again for a year until it eventually again tips one of the moderators over the edge :-( Which begs the question, is there less tolerance for repeat offenders, or is is totally a clean slate?

        • lprent 2.1.2.1

          We don’t operate like that. Moderators use the policy, but often have different ways of operating.

          • Rogue Trooper 2.1.2.1.1

            hi Lynn; cycling up ;) (with Gravatar and new e-mail into O.M, if that is OK; can you please communicate to a mod and permit please.gr888

      • xtasy 2.1.3

        Up early, or still up, respect!

    • Eddie 2.2

      think of it as a social experiment.

      some of the worst were banned half a decade ago and are still around on the web. It’ll be interesting to see what happens when they dip their toe into this much more mature community. I suspect the community’s anti-bodies are a lot stronger now than in our nascent days and the need for surgery from the moderators will be less (damn, few mixed metaphors in that – lack of sleep)

  3. Stand by for Pete George …

    • lprent 3.1

      Yeah he has a post up whining about it not being a real amnesty – because he isn’t allowed to change our policies. And I owe Irish a beer – he picked that reaction perfectly.

      I hope he is a bit less accurate on the others because otherwise it might get expensive.

      • IrishBill 3.1.1

        To be honest I didn’t pick he’d have such a big sulk and self-ban. In fact I was already to keep a firm hand on other commenters’ reactions to him to give him a fair go (note: this does not mean I’m turning down that beer…)

        • lprent 3.1.1.1

          Yeah. The Fish Market. Or that new set of eateries on Ponsonby Road at the back of where the old surplus junk store used to be

    • rosy 3.2

      If we speculate about how long he can resist commenting, will he refuse to comment in that timeframe just to prove us wrong?

      • Colonial Weka 3.2.1

        :-D

        • rosy 3.2.1.1

          Or maybe he has the profile he reckons he deserves with a couple of mentions in the Herald so won’t be back. That and the Daily Blog…. Else 2 days.

      • locus 3.2.2

        either the news hasn’t reached Petey yet, or more likely you’re right. My guess is his fingers are itching beyond belief and will begin frantic tapping before the week is up

    • The Al1en 3.3

      “Stand by for Pete George …”

      Tin foil hat that stops transmission from space messing with the brain at the ready.

      • freedom 3.3.1

        run for the hills i tell ya! PG is coming PG is coming
        now where did I put that treatise on semantic manipulation of points long departed from ?

        p.s. dear Al1en, it’s a scam, the tin foil hats amplify the frequencies, :)

        • The Al1en 3.3.1.1

          ” it’s a scam, the tin foil hats amplify the frequencies”

          With an edit function, I’d have written ‘With his tin foil hat….

          • lprent 3.3.1.1.1

            Later this morning I will resumed working on it. I had a better idea about a replacement on Thursday that I want to try.

            • BLiP 3.3.1.1.1.1

              Management’s callous disregard for the working conditions of ordinary commentators manifested by the “I’m working on it” delay tactic has been noted and reported to the Standarista Union. Just sayin’.

              ; )

            • The Al1en 3.3.1.1.1.2

              Good work. Hope you nail it.

  4. Hecate 4

    OK, to test your Bona Fides, how about this

    __ttp://www.globalresearch.ca/new-pope-tied-to-argentinas-dirty-war/53265816?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=new-pope-tied-to-argentinas-dirty-war

    and this

    __http://www.glo balres earch.ca/washin gtons-pope-who-is-francis-i-cardinal-jorge-mario-bergoglio-and-argentinas-dirty-war/5326675

    and this

    __http://www.third worldt raveler.com/South_Amerisca/Chisle_Miracle_Pinochet.html

    and this

    __http://www.elmu ndo.es/amersica/2011/11/09/argesntina/1289232137.html

    [lprent: There is always a stupido...
    1. posted off-topic to the post and the surrounding comment
    2. a series of links with not a comment from you about why they are relevant to the post (ie you are link-whoring - I fixed your links so they are unusable).
    3. You obviously did not read the policy which is always the sign of an idiot - do so now.
    4. I'd be happy to ban you if you repeat this behaviour after this warning.
    5. Are you as really as thick as your comment suggests. The post said we were giving an amnesty, not that we were changing our policy towards idiot dipshits. ]

  5. Hecate 5

    Well, it was a test, as claimed. It is a bit too early in the morning to get into a dispute, but I think
    that you are leaving yourself open to accusations of partisanship on this issue. Take a deep breath, and consider what company this puts you in. Have a nice day .. :-)

    [lprent: Perhaps you should explain your rationale as otherwise anyone looking at your "experiment" would just consider that you were just trying to spam our site with links that had no relationship to the post. ]

    • Hecate 5.1

      .. see ‘Open mike 16/03/2013′

    • The Al1en 5.2

      Forget all that, lets talk about the lack of self respect and pride of returning ban’ees.

      If you had any, you wouldn’t come back, right?

      • lprent 5.2.1

        I don’ t think that attempt at reverse psychology will work. The briar batch story is just a story…

        • The Al1en 5.2.1.1

          Honestly, it wasn’t reverse psychology, and I had to google the briar patch.

          I wouldn’t come back if you banned me. It’d be like a love rejected :lol:

    • QoT 5.3

      Gosh, I’m having a hard time remembering how Hecate got themselves banned. :roll:

      • Jenny 5.3.1

        It’s amazing to me how quickly, all these banned commenters got the news, and in a backhanded compliment rushed back in as quick as they could.

        Surely a testament to The Standard’s influence and importance.

        • lprent 5.3.1.1

          I think that there is mostly bedwetter, and he is doing the adult version of a small boy at the beach weeing without pants on and spinning around.. Fortunately he also has the range and bladder size of a small child as well.

          Just consider it to be his birthday and wait to put a nappie on him.

  6. Te Reo Putake 6

    Bugger Pete George, I’m keenly awaiting the return of Robinsod (not sure if that was a banning or a self immolation!?).

    Anyhoo, with rare exceptions, I’m not keen on bans, because it removes some of the sport from the site. Puncturing the egos of pompous righties is always tremendous fun.

    • bad12 6.1

      Yeah true as far as the fun of using such overblown egotistical wankers as PG for sport, but, it can become pretty tedious when as befor a situation develops where half of the comments in ‘Open Mike’ on any given day are taken up with such circular arguments which go no place in particular,

      Plus, i have forgotten how to make the ‘rolls eyes’ icon which seemed the best means of addressing that particular commenter…

      • Te Reo Putake 6.1.1

        : roll : (without the gaps)

        Here’s hoping we don’t need to use it again. It’ll be interesting to see how long Petulant Pete’s self exile lasts. As he’s obviously fixated with the site, I’m picking he won’t be resisting the temptation to tell us where we’re going wrong for too long.

    • lprent 6.2

      He self-banned and then disappeared. My recollection was he’d managed to get banned at every major site at the time within the space of a week or so. When he got a short ban at TS, he announced on his site (damn I miss that site and it wasn’t harvested..) that he was sick of it all and was departing.

    • Jenny 6.3

      I’m not keen on bans, because it removes some of the sport from the site. Puncturing the egos of pompous righties is always tremendous fun.

      Te Reo Putake

      If you enjoy that sort of sport TRP you should go to their sites.

      • Colonial Weka 6.3.1

        I agree. The poking at the righties sport that goes on here is one of the downsides of ts. It’s ok within limits, but when it goes on at length in multiple threads, it’s just boring, distracting and most likely puts off new people getting involved. I’ll take new blood over returning tr*lls and spoilsports any day.

  7. TheContrarian 7

    Interesting….and, I must say, kudos.

    Good move.

  8. chris73 8

    “I haven’t had an orthodox career, and I’ve wanted more than anything to have your respect. The first time I didn’t feel it, but this time I feel it, and I can’t deny the fact that you like me, right now, you like me!”

  9. Jenny 9

    I support more open and honest debate. I think that this is the true hallmark of democracy.

    However, I worry that you have not made a wrong move here Lynn. In that reasoned argument and rational comment backed up by fact may be swamped by a tidal wave of right wing invective and flame wars.

    Two things have heartened me.

    1/ That this move didn’t originate from you.

    2/ That the the normal rules of behaviour and moderation still apply. (Thank goodness, or your site risks being overrun.)

    PS. I hope that this amnesty doesn’t unnecessarily increase your workload.

  10. Don’t need the amnesty of a bunch of totalitarian Marxist scum.

    Cowards liars and control freaks.

    Fuck you and fuck your amnesty.

    • IrishBill 10.1

      And yet here you are.

      • QoT 10.1.1

        Look, obviously Redbaiter had to make just the one comment to show how little they care.

        *scrolls down*

        Oh.

    • Jenny 10.2

      How about a citation here and there to explain to our readers your expletive laced invective Bedwetter.

      Though I think a few links to extremist neo-nazi websites might convince the moderators to set a record in putting you back into moderation.

      In lieu of any links, or citations, I suppose you could try and use logic to argue your support for extremism.

      But I suspect that may be beyond you.

      • Redbaiter 10.2.1

        Nazis- National Socialist Worker’s Party.

        I am a traditional Constitutional Conservative you politically one dimensional socialist bimbo.

        You people are so politically and historically full of shit.

        That’s what happens when the left control education.

        People know nothing that they should.

        • TheContrarian 10.2.1.1

          If you think the nazis were socialist because of their name then I guess you think North Korea is democratic. Democratic people’s republic and all that.

    • xtasy 10.3

      Redbaiter – why are you here then, when Farrar’s Kiwiblowjob is not enough for you?

  11. That you communist swine would think for one minute that people are stupid enough to fall for your amnesty line shows just how out of touch you are as to how you are really regarded.

    Your word is worthless, and any person who comes on this blog and writes anythng that seriously confronts your deeply ingrained left wing Marxist greenie commie totalitarian mindset will always be unwelcome and eventually stopped from commenting.

    It’s as sure as night follows day so why the fuck don’t you just be honest with yourself and drop this pathetic charade.

    You people are control freaks. Always have been. Always will be.

    Like the scorpion that stung the frog carrying it across the river, you just cannot help yourslf.

    IT IS IN YOUR NATURE.

    • IrishBill 11.1

      lolz.

    • Hecate 11.2

      Erm .. I’m enjoying your role on this blog as agent provocateur – but no one seems be rising to the bait as I write.

      One question – what has the Texan flag to do with it ?

    • locus 11.3

      ah Mr.Frog – your comment makes me think that it’s not in the nature of slimy pond-dwellers to engage in an intelligent way with those who despise confrontarian shallow right wing label-ridden abusive mindsets…

    • karol 11.4

      Mr Rb – ur funni :)

    • vto 11.5

      I think you should think.

    • jaymam 11.6

      But Redbaiter you get banned from everywhere, even Kiwiblog. So you hang around on your own site that nobody reads.
      By the way, how’s Dr Brash? Have you given up on him yet?

    • pollywog 11.7

      Firing on all cylinder!

    • xtasy 11.8

      Redbaiter – you are excellent, you have proved the point that lprent and others are making with their amnesty. Generosity and humanity was never a strength of the right wingers, was it? No wonder Key tried to find new friends in Latin America, he did not notice though, the days of Pinochet and Videla have long gone there. So he came home with very empty bags, and there is NO bragging about the Latino Tour now. It was much a wasted time, Helen would have come across more favourably there, with Dilma Rousseff and others now.

      Go and pipe for the rats in Hamelin, dear baiter.

  12. “The “texan” flag..”

    Thanks for the laff fuckwit.

    Another typically ignorant of history half educated communist knuckle dragger of the kind that always makes conversation on the Standard so intellectually challenging.

    • Pascal's bookie 12.1

      Pretty sure he was trolling RB, don’t be so touchy.

      Everyone knows it’s the battle flag of a bunch of dudes who committed treason in defence of slavery, and we are all very impressed at how very brave you are in flying it. It shows your rugged individuality, and devil may care sensibilities with regard to human decency.

      • Redbaiter 12.1.1

        I explained why I used the flag as an avatar.

        Your cowardly little jack boot Nazi (National Socialist) “moderator” deleted the comment.

        • Pascal's bookie 12.1.1.1

          Sorry I missed it. I’m sure it was a stunningly original reflection that has never been put so eloquently or with such gravitas.

        • xtasy 12.1.1.2

          Hah, even the Nazis understood the appeal of the word “socialist”, so they adopted and abused it for their ends. Only the ignorant right wingers like you do not get it, that socialism has more to offer than narrow minded selfish, capitalist or fascist ideology. Bite the tail of the rat, red (rat) baiter.

    • Jenny 12.2

      Don’t be too hard on Hecate Bedwetter.
      The confederate flag is a very unfamiliar political symbol to most New Zealanders.

      To answer Hecate’s question:
      The confederate flag is the flag of the sucsessionist, racist and slave owning Southern States of the United States of America. A current state of affairs that proves it to be the flag of losers. This explanation is why you Bedwetter, did not want to answer Hecate’s honest though mistaken query on what it means.

      And why I have taken the trouble to do so for you.

      Bedwetter you are of course welcome to give your own alternative explanation of why you chose this racist and reactionary symbol to represent you. That is if you have one.

      • GregJ 12.2.1

        Technically RB’s avatar is showing the Confederate Battle Flag or the Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (Lee’s Army). It was used as the Canton in the 2nd and 3rd National Flags of the Confederacy and a rectangular version as the jack and ensign for the Confederate Navy.

        Hecate wasn’t too far off though as a version (with a white border) was used by the 1st Texan Regiment which was captured at Appomatox in 1865.

        I’m not sure what the Provocateur Rouge’s connection is to it though – it is used by Americans of the South as some sort of cultural indicator (including the Sons of the Confederate Veterans) but also by German neo-Nazi’s not able to display the Swastika and the KKK. However perhaps he/she is a fan of the Dukes of Hazzard and fancies they are a “good ole boy”.

        I’d assumed from the various posts that Bedwetter (BW) is attempting to be the first person banned here again following the amnesty – however he/she does seem quite keen on people being educated so I assume when BW grows up it will be aspiring to a university education – should be fascinating what BW might learn surrounded by all those leftist academics and students.

        • Pascal's bookie 12.2.1.1

          ” however he/she does seem quite keen on people being educated”

          Nah. RB always babbles on about how everyone is just so ignorant that they totally misconstrue every speech act he makes. It’s his way of avoiding actually defending anything he says.

    • Colonial Viper 12.3

      Note to RB: Cold War finished 25 years ago.

      It appeared at the time that the socialist security surveillance state lost the Cold War, but latest indications make it look like that’s who actually won it. The winner is imitating the loser.

  13. Epping Road 13

    I got banned several weeks ago for a week after an intemperate exchange with Irish Bill. It was only for a week but I haven’t commented since. It is nice to see a second chance is offered.

    • fatty 13.1

      i’m glad to see the amnesty too, many of us here have had heated debates at one time or another (I’ve had loads and usually with people I often agree with…its the best way to learn). I also like seeing alternative views on here.
      But D-grade arguments with North Korean references are tiresome, such as redbaiter #14 below…

  14. ” It is nice to see a second chance is offered.”

    Nice..?????

    You limp wristed lamer.

    These people want to use the power of the state to regulate you to death, and steal your property, and steal what you earn, and you only have to look at the history of their political movement to know what they are capable of, and you seek their approval like a pathetic little poodle lapdog,, and so desperately want them to think well of you, and kiss their feet in gratitude??

    Why don’t you just fuck off to Nth Korea right now Epping Road and get a dose of what you’re begging for.

    It is lame arsed losers like you, who don’t know what or who you are up against, who are most to blame for this country’s descent into a totalitarian socialist abyss.

    Wipe the saliva off your chin and WISEN UP MORON..!

    [this is the famous Redbaiter? Scourge of the online Left? Reminds me of nothing more than Grandpa Simpson. Zet]

    • locus 14.1

      and all this clever repartee from someone who doesn’t know what a Reply button is……..

      • Redbaiter 14.1.1

        Oh, so you’ve relented and decided to “engage in an intelligent way” have you?

        By whining that I’m not using the reply button.

        Get a life you pathetic little brainwashed commie.

        You couldn’t deal with any direct confrontation to your core beliefs even if you wanted to, because nobody educated in NZ in the last few decades (since the left gained control of education) has the academic ability to do that.

      • Pascal's bookie 14.1.2

        Replying is a commun1st plot you laughworthy lackwit!

        It’s ‘replying’ that leads to gay marriage and menfolk playing indoor netball!

        • Redbaiter 14.1.2.1

          Same old Marxist strategy.

          When you are confronted with unassailable truth, always fall back on attempted ridicule.

          • karol 14.1.2.1.1

            Welcome to the reunion of the pot and kettle.

            • locus 14.1.2.1.1.1

              maybe we need to explain that to the poor chap….

              Redbaiter – by an impressive feat of logic I have inferred that karol is pointing out that your attempts to fall back on ridicule may classify you – in your own words – as a Marxist

              • Redbaiter

                I have no need to ridicule further that which is already so patently ridiculous.

                By adhering to the left wing side of the political spectrum you already identify yourself as laffing stock to anyone of any real intellectual worth.

                Without millions of low information low intellect voters, Barack Obama would never have been elected.

        • Jenny 14.1.2.2

          Bedwetter just needs to change his linen.

      • freedom 14.1.3

        “totalitarian socialist abyss.”
        do you actually understand the words you are using?

        Do you normally just slam non-sensical blather on the table and call it an argument?

        Perhaps the writings of Bernays are some sort of high human achievement for you and this is mere limbering up, meaningless exercises if you will, before the full force of your intellectual ability lays waste to the Standard’s abundant fields of discourse, slowing the growth of freedom and forever destroying independent thought for all eternity. Actual independence that is, not the sort you need a gun to enforce. I realise that is probably a bit difficult for you to grasp so best you run along now as the grown ups have reality to discuss.

        • Redbaiter 14.1.3.1

          Hehe heh.. do you realise “freedom” that your writing style identifies you as suffering from a very bad case of narcissism?

          See a shrink.

          The fact is that just as the left once built a wall around Berlin to keep out alternative ideas, so they have built a similar wall within our society, and the existence of that wall is why you and so many of the other lamers writing here are politically one dimensional ignoramuses. Without even knowing it.

          • karol 14.1.3.1.1

            Unlike, of course, the open liberally minded, democratic right wingers, who just prefer gated communities and armed citadels.

            • Redbaiter 14.1.3.1.1.1

              They live there because they want to.

              The Berlin wall was to keep people in as well as out.

              Just as people cannot leave Cuba if they want to.

              Although they have frequently lost or risked their lives to do so. As in Berlin.

              • One Tāne Huna

                A union of kill-freaks wants to live in a commune? Delicious.

                • Redbaiter

                  That is what you criminals with your perversion of democracy have driven decent people to do.

                  • One Tāne Huna

                    Oh noes! The fiercely independent individualist gun-nuts are so scared of me they’ve gone communal!

                    Who knew owning lots of guns could be so emasculating.

                    • Redbaiter

                      If you keep destroying freedom the way you are commie, one day you might find out just how “afraid” we really are of people like you.

                      Look at every example of left wing tyranny in history- they’ve all been brought down eventually.

                    • One Tāne Huna

                      Yap yap little dog.

                    • Jenny

                      If you keep destroying freedom the way you are commie, one day you might find out just how “afraid” we really are of people like you.

                      Redbaiter

                      Good grief a veiled death threat. Really this amnesty is way too liberal. But it has been an education to know what lengths you will stoop to Bedwetter, given even the slightest opening. Of course both you and I know Bedwetter, that you are far to incapacitated by ‘your problem’ to be able to get out of the house much to act on your threats. And as for freedom. You long ago destroyed your own personal freedom. You have no one to blame for this but yourself.

                  • Mary

                    “That is what you criminals with your perversion of democracy have driven decent people to do.”

                    I would’ve thought you’d be an advocate of personal responsibility regardless of outside forces at play. Guess this means you do, after all, understand how poverty and losing a sense of belonging can lead people to engage in desperate activities, like stealing, drug and alcohol abuse, violence or other things people in desperate situations can be driven to do.

                    There, just goes to show, if you take the time to stand back and look at the whole person there’s always some good inside. Deep down I always knew we’d eventually get to see the love and goodness and caring nature inside of you that’s obviously been there all the time. It just needed the conversation that’s going on here for that to happen. And we all thought you were beyond help. Silly us.

              • Descendant Of Sssmith

                Just like Americans can freely go to Cuba – oh that’s right they can’t. They have to cross the border to Mexico and fly from there. Oh and when they come back and it’s found they have been in Cuba they get their names noted and their tax records reviewed. Harassed to the point where it’s normal to not have your passport stamped by Cuban authorities.

                Yep land of the free.

                And it’s great when the police deliberately burn you to death.

                http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/02/13/the-execution-of-christopher-dorner/

                I’d be more scared of the right methinks.

                • xtasy

                  I so well remember when I applied for a visa for the US, and later also for Australia, and that was before the Berlin Wall came down. I had to go to West Berlin for a job interview there once, in my younger years, but they (US and Australia) wanted to know all about me having been there, having crossed the DDR (East Germany) and what I was doing there. Just the fact of having crossed East Germany on a train, just to get to West Berlin, that was enough for them to be “suspicious” of me. So the US bluntly turned down my visa application, and the Australians did the same, that was in the last years of the Cold War.

                  So talk about freedom and democracy, Red Biter or whosoever, what does freedom mean to you and your ignorant ilk then? Just visiting a place, that you or your government dislikes, automatically makes you suspicious and guilty of what???

                  Dumb, dumb, ignorant and mean spirited, yes hateful, that is what I call your self righteousness. And for Cuba, if it had not been for the US embargo or boycott in regards to trade and else, they would never have had to rely so heavily on USSR and China. It was an own goal by dumb gringo governments, I am afraid.

            • prism 14.1.3.1.2.1

              joe90 I can’t see this idaho statesman item without registering or something. I don’t want to get onto the lists of outfits I don’t know anything about so I’ll give it a miss.

          • freedom 14.1.3.1.3

            ouch, it hurtses it does
            funnily enough when i did see a shrink for PTSD they both said i had the clearest understanding of who and what I am and neither suggested i am a narcissist but they both admitted i am right more times than they were comfortable with ;)

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDyb_alTkMQ
            have a nice day :)

            • ghostrider888 14.1.3.1.3.1

              Excellent (always loved John’s take on that song); freedom is in the mind.

    • Epping Road 14.2

      Proof that Section 59 never really worked. Redbaiter never recovered from getting smacked on the bum by his mum for shitting on the porch every day.

  15. starboard 15

    Good moaning all.

  16. “Bedwetter you are of course welcome to give your own alternative explanation of why you chose this racist and reactionary symbol to represent you.”

    Thank you you arrogant Marxist dimwit- but if you had half the intelligence you assume yourself to have, you’d know the answer to that already.

    The reason I use that flag as an avatar is because I know it offends people like you, whom I WANT TO OFFEND.

    I haven’t used my signature for a while, but here it is Jenny- just for you:

    Redbaiter- in the leftist’s lexicon, the lowest of the low.

    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      If you use the “reply” link found on the bottom of the comment that you are responding to, you will make it much easier for people to see that you have written a response.

      Just call me helpful Marxist C0mmie Scum :twisted:

    • Jenny 16.2

      Redbaiter- in the leftist’s lexicon, the lowest of the low.

      Redbaiter

      And hear I was naively thinking it was just a subconscious misspelling of your ongoing incontinence problem.

      If you are still not getting any relief, could I be so bold as to suggest a bit of exercise. And if you can, try and stay away from the buffet table at the next ACT conference.

    • Jenny 16.3

      The reason I use that flag as an avatar is because I know it offends people like you, whom I WANT TO OFFEND

      Redbaiter

      Just for future reference Bedwetter. If you really “WANT TO OFFEND” you could use the swastika which a is a more widely recognised symbol of war, violence and racist oppression.

      I can only wonder why, if it is your intention to offend, that you haven’t. A loss of nerve perhaps?

      And you wonder why you are such a loser.

      • Redbaiter 16.3.1

        Sorry, I am not going to use the emblem of the National Socialist Worker’s Party.

        • millsy 16.3.1.1

          So you use the emblem of slave owning nigger lynching South Carolina instead

        • Jenny 16.3.1.2

          I am not going to use the emblem of the National Socialist Worker’s Party

          Redbaiter

          Why not?

          Bedwetter this sounds like your kind of dream coalition government.

          A Labour Party, led by a darling of the Right, and champion of privatised brown shirt type militias, and a wall street investment banker led National Party. Getting together to agree to form a coalition National Socialist Government, enabled to crack down on unions, marginalise those of unacceptable religious persuasion, and race. Take away women’s rights. And criminalise anyone who dare paint their roof while on a benefit.

          Get your dream NZ National Socialist Government to agree to accept your emblem.

          Why not?

          Its got the red, its got the blue, its got little stars. It belongs to an old, foreign, and failed state, that championed slavery.

          Everything to gladden your heart.

          • Redbaiter 16.3.1.2.1

            You see Jenny, you just gave an example of exactly what I have been trying to bring attention to all today, and that is the incredibly narrow spectrum of politics that exists in NZ, and that it is this way because the left have built a metaphorical Berlin wall around political ideas.

            Your political perceptions are so stunted, but it is not your fault.

            You are a victim of a closed political system where just as once occurred in East Berlin, only certain ideas are approved and others remain unspoken of.

            Its why you don’t know what a Constitutional Conservative is, and this fact is made obvious by your comment above wherein you proscribe ideas to me that I would never for one millisecond consider.

            The Constitutional Conservative believes that the one thing we do not need ever is a powerful state, and what we do need is free individuals.

            How you reconcile those simple objectives with the scenario you outlined above I don’t know.

            As I said above, that you tried is because you don’t know.

            Shame really, but that you don’t know is just one more example of why I can call this a totalitarian socialist hole and know I am right.

            • One Tāne Huna 16.3.1.2.1.1

              “Constitutional Conservative.”

              What a ridiculous conceit. What you are, Redbaityer, is a parrot, relentlessly squawking out someone else’s boring lines.

              • karol

                Isn’t “Constitutional conservative” a US term for right wing libertarians? Or maybe just the irrational and contradictory Tea Partiers?

                Small government, law of the jungle, kind of thing? Assumes a level playing field, allows the powerful to dominate, and little protection etc for the least powerful?

                “Free individuals”? usually just for the most powerful individuals and shows no understanding of social processes.

                So riven with contradictions and lack of self-awareness of that?

                “Metaphorical Berlin Wall” around political ideas? in the age of the dominance of “neoliberal” discourse?

            • Jenny 16.3.1.2.1.2

              The Constitutional Conservative believes that the one thing we do not need ever is a powerful state, and what we do need is free individuals.

              Redbaiter

              So why do you fly the flag of a slave state?

              Seriously?

              Personally, I think someone who has a hate symbol as an avatar, should have never been allowed to post here in the first place…..

              • locus

                It’s almost a pleasure to see an abusive opinionated irrational commenter totally unaware of how their views are being logically and comprehensively pilloried. Frothing at the mouth narcissistic anarchists afford entertaining sport on this kind of thread. Just need to keep them away from littering threads on socially and politically relevant topics.

        • xtasy 16.3.1.3

          I know why, you do not like “socialist” associated with that rather fascist party. Otherwise you could well agree with most they stood for, right?

    • Murray Olsen 16.4

      You don’t even figure in any worthwhile lexicon. You’re just a tiresome fuckwit, possibly an 8 year old.

  17. RedLogix 17

    While I’m happy with the idea of an amnesty, I’ll think we’ll fairly quickly discover why some of them were banned in the first place.

    A real amnesty resets the count to zero and I’ll treat it that way.

    [lprent: sounds like a good way to operate. Reading it so far, it just reminds me of pre-election 2008 ]

    • Colonial Viper 17.1

      Someone should put together an algorithm for a Redbaiter spambot. That would be funny.

      And easy to do.

    • Redbaiter 17.2

      There see- told you so.

      The scorpion prepares its sting.

      You guys are just the same old commies and the same old deceitful liars, just as I said in my my first couple of comments.

      It would obviously be a stupid mistake to consider the amnesty as a genuine offer.

      [RL: It's an amnesty ... not "moderation off". I've already trashed one unhinged comment from you and another from someone else attacking you. ]

      • Colonial Viper 17.2.1

        Setting yourself up for another ban so you can then bitch about how right (heh!) you were looks bloody obvious mate.

      • Zetetic 17.2.2

        So impotently angry and angry at your impotence.

        So much fun!

        I was wrong. You’re not like Grandpa Simpson.

        You’re like the one baby in daycare who hasn’t learned to walk yet and cries and shrieks seeing all the others doing it, unable to walk herself.

        Except if I stood in front of that baby and pointed and laughed my head off, people would judge me harshly. Not with you.

      • Jenny 17.2.3

        It would obviously be a stupid mistake to consider the amnesty as a genuine offer.

        Redbaiter

        Only so far as sometimes we need to put emotionally needy children in the other room, so as the adults can have a proper conversation, without being interrupted by tiresome childish babble. (Which while admittedly amusing for a short time, quickly, becomes annoyingly repetitive, and hard to hear over.)

        Personally, Bedwetter, I would prefer that like a good boy you were able to take the hint and realise that you are not welcome here and find somewhere else to play.

        Otherwise, If you don’t take the hint, you may be forced to spend time in the naughty corner. (At least until you can learn some manners, or converse like an adult.)

        Any more tiresome pleadling against this sentence and we may have to send you to bed early. And I know how much you hate that.

        • Colonial Viper 17.2.3.1

          Yeah RB has a tiresome habit of wanting the conversation to be all about him, and throwing his toys around until it is.

          [RL: I've now trashed three unhinged, abusive comments from RB. It only takes one mouse click....]

          • prism 17.2.3.1.1

            What about three strikes and you’re out. It would be an appropriate use of this practice.

          • freedom 17.2.3.1.2

            + RB says i’m the narcissist, sheesh, gonna buy RB a mirror for xmas and write out some simple instructions for its use.
            Step one: place at bottom of deep water
            Step two: go look into mirror

            just jiving RB i am sure you are a really lovely person in real life
            and not at all bigoted close minded or ignorant of what a community is

            far too nice a day to swat mozzies
            i got sawdust to make

      • locus 17.2.4

        no doubt you are the noble frog offering to bring your enemies across the dangerous pond of socially concerned thinking.. Oh dear what have we on the other side- an abyss of frog eat frog ideology

    • QoT 17.3

      That’s the hook of the amnesty, it’s a double whammy on the accusations of Evil Censoring Moderators: on the one hand, you’ve offered the amnesty, on the other, you’ve got a massively high likelihood of the old bannees demonstrating for the new crowd that your bannination was completely justified.

      • Mary 17.3.1

        And eventually drives you away. Where’s the right-wing blog where socialist commie scum like us can properly engage without being abused and told to fuck off? There isn’t one. The vile and hateful posts on Whaleoil, for example, cause many left-wingers to choose not to engage, to the detriment of free and open dialogue. If The Standard opens the way for pure abuse from right-wing idiots like Redbaiter (or even the exasperating non-communication of Pete George for that matter) I know I’d probably become less interested in participating.

        • Draco T Bastard 17.3.1.1

          If The Standard opens the way for pure abuse from right-wing idiots like Redbaiter…

          The moderators won’t. As has been said already, the new people around will just find out why these people were banned in the first place as they get themselves banned for doing exactly the same thing again. Theses types never learn as their propensity for blaming everyone else for their stupidity shows.

  18. millsy 18

    Im pretty sure this redbaiter is taking the piss. Anyway, it seems to him that individual freedom goes out the door when:

    1) you want to join a union
    2) have a homosexual relationship
    3) have an abortion

  19. karol 19

    Just remember this- we know what and who you are and we are politically coming after you.

    You are stinking cowardly little would be tyrants,

    And the contradictions just keep coming……

    [RL: Sorry but I've trashed the original. You've quoted the only bits that could have been acceptable....]

  20. HEY RL YOU DIRTY LITTLE COMMUNIST COWARD.

    YOU WOULD HAVE MADE SUCH A GOOD GUARD ON THE WATCH TOWERS OF THE BERLIN WALL.

    WEARING YOUR POLISHED JACKBOOTS TODAY ARE YOU?

    BE HONEST WITH YOUR READERS AND TELL THEM YOU ARE DELETING MY COMMENTS.

    [RL: I have already explained this three times; at 17.2, again at 17.2.3.1 and again at 19.0.]

    • One Tāne Huna 20.1

      :lol:

    • millsy 20.2

      Well, you would have made a fine Grand Wizard yourself.

    • xtasy 20.3

      RB what is your obsession with the Berlin Wall? Have you ever been there? I have and cannot even get close to such rant idiocy that you utter. Jackboots are worn, not physically, but in spirit, by the government we have, wanting to force sick and disabled to look for and compete for jobs that do not exist, with the fit and healthy. That is Nazism to me, and you love it, right?

  21. Jenny 21

    I have noticed Bedwetter that you have taken down the confederate flag as your avatar.

    I am so gratified, I feel like TV’s super-nanny.

    So you are amenable to little discipline after all.

    You are such a cuddly little fellow. And who couldn’t like those dimples.

    However I think we still need a little bit more work on the potty mouth. Don’t you agree?

    And how’s your nappy, feeling a bit heavy?

    Maybe you should go over to Kiwi Blog, or Whaleoil and get a fresh one.

  22. One Tāne Huna 22

    Not that strong on the facts, eh, puppy?

    In 2010 a study published by Dr Fowler and his colleagues implicated a gene known as DRD4 in the development of political affiliation. DRD4 encodes a receptor molecule for a neurotransmitter called dopamine. (Neurotransmitters are chemicals that carry signals from one nerve cell to another.) Those with a variant of DRD4 called 7R, and also a large network of friends acquired during their adolescence, tended to be (in the American sense of the word) liberals—ie, left wing.

    So what’s it to be, RedBaiter? Eugenics?

  23. You know your so called “moderators” on this site are just the same old commie social trash that stood guard over dissent in Berlin and Cuba and Nth Korea.

    Just remember this losers-

    The Berlin wall was protected by all of the might of the Soviet Union.

    But it was torn down. By the will of the people.

    Enjoy it while you can.

    Your fake amnesty is just a sign that you know what is coming.

    • One Tāne Huna 23.1

      You’re on private property. Remember how that works?

    • RedLogix 23.2

      All nations have various forms of border control. Normally they are used to manage who has the privilege of entering the country. Similarly blogs are a form of private property that also have the right to manage who has the privilege of entering and commenting.

      By contrast Nth Korea and the Soviets Union intended to prevent people from leaving their countries.

      Your attempt to draw a parallel fails on this point because absolutely nothing prevents you from leaving The Standard whatsoever. Really.

      • Redbaiter 23.2.1

        No you missed my point.

        My reference to guards on the watchtower referred to the wider political debate in all of NZ, not just this blog.

        • RedLogix 23.2.1.1

          You know your so called “moderators” on this site are just the same old commie social trash that stood guard over dissent in Berlin and Cuba and Nth Korea.

          That is an explicit, literal and obvious reference to “moderators on this site”. No mention whatsoever of “wider political debate in all of NZ”.

    • xtasy 23.3

      The only “commie” in this thread is you, “common idiot” to be precise.

  24. Rich 24

    Oh yawn. I was rather hoping you’d go the other way and require that all commentators have a basically left-liberal perspective and ban all the tory trolls forever. Really, what’s the point engaging with these people, they (mostly) aren’t going to be suddenly converted to socialism?

  25. “[RL: I have already explained this three times; at 17.2, again at 17.2.3.1 and again at 19.0.]”

    Yes, you explained that you were as usual using entirely subjective personal criteria to decide which comments should stand and which you should delete.

    You are just a deceitful little commie coward and petty tyrant and that you apparently think decent people would want to regularly come here and subject themselves to the rule of scum like you is just another sign of your innate leftist insanity.

    • One Tāne Huna 25.1

      I’m starting to feel quite sorry for you. It’s hard to love a wingnut, but you’ve really touched me; I cannot imagine how it must feel to be beset by such demons.

      Please accept this sympathy in the spirit of charity in which it is offered :)

      • Redbaiter 25.1.1

        Communist Party instruction, Moscow Politbureau 1943

        Comrade Marshall Vladimir Kruschevsky-

        “When confronted with unassailable truth, attempt ridicule.”

        • RedLogix 25.1.1.1

          Yes, you explained that you were as usual using entirely subjective personal criteria to decide which comments should stand and which you should delete.

          You accused me of deleting some of your comments and not telling other readers. When I proved otherwise you then complain that I’m dishonestly using entirely subjective personal criteria. This is quite wrong thinking on your part; all moderators here have the right to use whatever criteria they please to edit or delete comments. That’s because this blog is private property and all commenters are guests. For instance, like your own home.

          You have no right to say whatever you want in this place. As I explained before, if you do not like this … please leave.

        • One Tāne Huna 25.1.1.2

          It’s not ridicule, it’s sympathy

          • One Tāne Huna 25.1.1.2.1

            PS: Aristotle also noted the value of humour in debate, but no-one needs my input to realise that the most intelligent response is to laugh at you :lol:

  26. Oh, and noticed you deleted my reference to Senator Conroy with indecent haste RL.

    Loser.

    • RedLogix 26.1

      What? You think I actually read all of them?

      • Redbaiter 26.1.1

        So you reveal you don’t even read what you delete.

        Some “moderation” policy.

        Admit it RL, you’re just a petty tyrant and dictator running your own little dream of a totalitarian state here on the Standard.

        • RedLogix 26.1.1.1

          Oh dear, I attempt a modest little jab in reply and you come all over upset with me.

          Same old RB, real good at dishing it out, much less so at taking it.

    • karol 26.2

      Bored now. Are you anything more than a one-note stirrer? Do you have anything of substance to contribute other than contradictory ridicule and abuse?

      Afraid to engage in an honest debate based on evidence rather than subjective accusations? Or just looking for an early ban?

    • bad12 26.3

      Lolz you is even funnier than PG, unbanning you was obviously a charity extended to one who’s brain was damaged at birth,

      the only real question that needs answering here Redbaiter is if this brain damage occurred as the doctor attempted to abort you as a fetus or did your Mama bash you with a heavy blunt instrument in shame at what she had spawned.

      [RL: Ask yourself... this is the kind of bravado drivel from RB that I'm busy deleting. He knows better, and so should you.]

      • Redbaiter 26.3.1

        Communist Party instruction, Moscow Politbureau 1943

        Comrade Marshall Vladimir Kruschevsky-

        “When confronted with unassailable truth, attempt ridicule.”

        • karol 26.3.1.1

          Sorry, Rb. You need better role models. It’s just not working for you.

        • xtasy 26.3.1.2

          RB are you the one dressing up in soviet uniforms and going to certain SM establishments on K-Rd here in Auckland asking for a neat “whipping”, so you can get it off, for once and now? Your obsessions are bizarre, to say the least, and the repetitiveness of slanderous insult is getting tiresome.

  27. fender 27

    ‘Sorry all- have to go and clean the gutters’

    Good idea [RL: In the interests of fairness that word got deleted. Oh and I got twitchy and clicked the "Trash" button on the original RB comment here by 'accident'. Sad.]….everyone should keep their home clean.

  28. DH 28

    This is hilarious, you need to have an amnesty more often. Reading some of the posts I keep picturing this scene from Monty Python…..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yjNbcKkNY&feature=player_detailpage#t=98s

    I’ve always thought a better way to handle the trolls is to have a separate thread they get diverted to rather than bannng them. Have an Open cesspit thread….

    Problem with letting them back is they clutter up the threads with their verbal diarrhoea. I can also picture Pete George and a few others setting their alarm clocks five minutes earlier each day so they can be first to post in Open mike…. shall we have a pool on who’s first to 5am?

    • Redbaiter 28.1

      “This is hilarious,”

      Glad your enjoying it.

      Pity the context is entirely fucked up by the Castro/ Conroy style antics of your so called “moderator” RL.

      [RL: Were were all rather hoping that you were hauling a ladder out of your garden shed about now. Take care.]

    • One Tāne Huna 28.2

      It has a certain charm, doesn’t it? I think the idea of moderated comments in a separate thread is an excellent one. Real Climate, for example, uses “The Bore Hole”. Perhaps The Standard could have the The Gulag – Red Baiter would like that :)

      • Jenny 28.2.1

        I think the idea of moderated comments in a separate thread is an excellent one. Real Climate, for example, uses “The Bore Hole”. Perhaps The Standard could have the The Gulag – Red Baiter would like that

        One Tāne Huna

        Call it the “The Naughty Corner”. RB would like that less. He may even try and moderate his behaviour to get out of it. Don’t laugh, it is possible.

    • Descendant Of Sssmith 28.3

      Funny I was thinking this one

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRUe-gz690&feature=fvwrel

      Fight, fight…

  29. Rogue Trooper 29

    very interesting (and revealing) indeed.
    eine kleine nutmuzak

  30. Treetop 30

    What a good idea it is to have an amnesty as I am not in favour of a permanent ban, however a ban up to three months I would not object to.

    I am sure that a researcher would be interested in doing a case study on certain people.

    “The worlds a stage and we are all actors on it”

    This stage now consists of being a commentator.

    • RedLogix 30.1

      I agree. Administering a ban for a few weeks is manageable. But when someone earns one of these repeatedly or otherwise finally runs out of rope then the only tool available has been a permanent ban.

      I’d be quite happy to see some alternative approach, because a permanent ban doesn’t allow for redemption.

      • One Tāne Huna 30.1.1

        That’s the value of a “moderated comments” thread. It provides “a place for comments that would otherwise disrupt sensible conversation”: the sanction is applied to the comment not the commentator. thus presenting the opportunity to learn better manners, while undermining the notion of moderator bias.

        • Bill 30.1.1.1

          Just a suggestion – and I’m not entirely sure that the infrastructure to run it is possible. But if all bans were only for 24 hours or 48 hours with the possibility of the duration being doubled should somebody attempt to ignore the ban or ‘sneak in’ under a different handle…

          And if it was then possible to have a simple list in the part of the site accessable by moderators where the timing of a particular ban and its expiration was noted, then ‘time outs’ would be easier to monitor and the idiots who ‘compete’ for the distinction of getting a permanent ban from ‘ts’ would have lost the ability to play their wee game.

          It also allows for absolute trigger happiness on the part of grumpy mods since a 24/48 hour ban ain’t exactly the end of the world.

          • RedBaronCV 30.1.1.1.1

            Ah yes, the naughty step.

            How about a whole thread and all the posts from the banned ones go directly there. Then the rest of us can pop over for a visit or some advanced troll baiting if we feel like it.

        • lprent 30.1.1.2

          It’d be easy to setup. We can already moderate comments on a post by post basis.

      • Rogue Trooper 30.1.2

        Hi Red,
        if you are moderating, or have the ability, i am “cycling” up and trying out a Gravatar with updated e-mail. could you please address if poss. Thanks. gr888 ;)

      • Treetop 30.1.3

        “All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players.” William Shakespeare.

        Redemption is the democratic thing to do as a permanent ban does not allow for redemption. This is the one issue (permanent ban) where I feel a survey needs to be carried out.

    • lprent 30.2

      It rapidly becomes a pain putting people in and out of bans for being to dumb to learn.

      • Treetop 30.2.1

        Is a 3 or 6 month ban manageable?

        May be a yearly amnesty is the solution?

        • lprent 30.2.1.1

          I’ve usually run it at about 18-24 months amnesty. We started moderating towards the start of 2008 in self-defense. Amnesties were run at the start of 2009 and just after mid-year in 2010. I’d have run one at the start of 2012, but as you can see it does require quite a lot of increased moderation effort and that was time I didn’t have to spare with work and health problems. I don’t usually bother to make the amnesties particularly public, we just remove people from auto-spam and auto-moderation and the news seems to get around.

          But trust me – in terms of moderator work, Redbaiter is actually one of the better and more articulate ones because she isn’t a fire and forget troll. Offhand I can’t remember if we actually finally banned her or if she just wandered off.

          Umm looks like she self-banned and r0b took her as a woman of her word.

  31. Pete 31

    Well, this thread is nothing if not evidence that the iron fist of loving correction remains a valuable tool in the moderators’ kit.

    • Rogue Trooper 31.1

      spare the rod, smell the clod

    • prism 31.2

      Pete
      +1
      There could be money in amnesties. Look at how many people have commented in such a short time. If each one of the banned ones had to pay $20 to get back in to the site, there would be a nice little boost to March’s income. Free speech comes with a cost.

      • lprent 31.2.1

        Site running cash cost is now down to ~170 per month (we peaked at ~500 per month). I have a few bugs to wrangle out of the system before I can resume the relentless cost reduction.

        Getting on the other side of the southern cross cable monopoly was pretty good for cost savings. I now have controlled the frigging bingbot that was eating our bandwidth. What I need now is a base server VPS or dedicated server that gives a lot of peak fast CPU’s and doesn’t give me an excess of bandwidth.

  32. handle 33

    Lynn said: “it just reminds me of pre-election 2008″.

    If commenters here were harder to distract from the topic of conversation, an amnesty might work. History suggests The Standard is just shooting itself in the foot at an important time in the political cycle. Like a certain political party has been for so long.

  33. unpcnzcougar 34

    RB, as a current centre-right voter I am appalled at your deliberate inflammatory comments here. I have had one or two unkind and unnecessary comments thrown at me here and refuse to stoop to that level as it only shows that one is not that intelligent.

    I pity you, because every day you wake up, you are you.

    • ghostrider888 34.1

      that is one of the most attractive comments of your of have read; purrloin

      • Redbaiter 34.1.1

        Oh, a kind pat on the head from her commie masters.

        You’ve just made her day..!!1

        • ghostrider888 34.1.1.1

          now you know that i am not a died-in-the-wool socialist now don’t you? and that i am Very familiar with what motivates libertarians and conservatives.

        • xtasy 34.1.1.2

          Master here, whip, whip and whip, is it coming yet?

  34. “RB, as a current centre-right voter”

    Go fuck yourself Quisling.

    You so called opposition to the left are so ineffectual you might as well not exist.

    As for being “centre right”, on what stunted political spectrum would that be?

    Oh yeah, the one in this country, where fuckwits like you are so politically confused and weak as piss you have allowed the extreme left to assume the centre while you sit preening yourself on the far left and in your ignorance and delusion call yourself centrist. What a fucking laff..

    • One Tāne Huna 35.1

      Unpcnzcougar, do you get that? Redbaiter represents the real face of the right wing in New Zealand. You are deluding yourself if you think that your desire for politeness and respect among equals will prevail in the face of scum like this. They are the real face of the National Party. You are not. Get used to it.

      • Redbaiter 35.1.1

        You sad dimwit- take a look at my blog and see if you can find one word praising the National Party.

        They are the main reason we are in this shit, because like Unpccringer they have allowed themselves to be drawn so far left they might as well forget the whole thing.

        Useless ineffectual cowards and compromisers and many of them as Progressive as the regulars to this suffocating commie propaganda outlet.

        The National Party?/

        FFS you moron, if you are going to try and insult me get yourself up to half speed at least.

        • farmboy 35.1.1.1

          could be worse mate could have the greens in stopping mining fracking casinos making all us farmers go organic losing half our production and letting weeds take over the countryside making us get gay electric cars and putting up useless wind turbines which have to be subsidised fucking homos

          • millsy 35.1.1.1.1

            Yeah, god forbid that we have clean air and water, and pristine national parks.

            • farmboy 35.1.1.1.1.1

              yea and you can enjoy it with no fucking job

              • karol

                How’s that over-grazing of farm land working out for you, farmboy? There’s much to be said for letting grass grow in selected fields.

                • farmboy

                  haha im fine thanks karol another year of payments on my herd on once a day at moment but dont need government help cant understand why some do we run things pretty cheap still make hay the cheapest supplement there is dont know why it out of fashion people buying it in now.Not sure what you mean by letting grass grow in selected feilds grass grows in every paddock here by the way not the first drought it happens every 5yrs just got to be prepared

                  • karol

                    Over-grazing can contribute to drought. It’s better to allow some grass to grow long because it results in more moisture being retained in the earth.

                    See here on the dangers of over-grazing. And here about the issue in the Bay of Plenty a couple of years back.

                    And then there’s the madness of NZ increasing the amount of dairy farming when it is extremely water-intensive.

                    • karol

                      Nope: This is the Bay of Plenty article.

                    • karol

                      *8@!# (clearly I’m in need of an edit button.

                      here’s the raw link:

                      http://www.bayofplentytimes.co.nz/news/farmers-warned-to-avoid-over-grazing/1037897/

                    • farmboy

                      yea check out the front page of the herald for the moisture level what time of year are you talking about would you have us with grass going to seed and curling over and dying in late spring with not enough animals to eat it to that you would say make silage and hay out if it and sell excess but that would flood the market and be worthless.we have been running the same number since 1969 here and always get through so dont think a lecture from a greenie will be of any help or value to me maybe try it on your own land oh thets right you prob dont own any.By the way considerin fonterra is nz biggest and most successful company can u think of a better way to use water

                    • karol

                      farmboy, our economy isn’t doing so well. NZ is struggling to get restrictions on NZ dairy products (in the US and Japan for example). Water is going to be an increasingly scarce resource in the future. There are alternatives. Crop farming, or alternative animals that don’t require so much water. And NZ needs to put more initiatives into manufacturing.

                      Time to think outside the square and not just continuing to do the things that have been done in the past.

                      I linked to articles that give views by people with farming backgrounds, who are far from being Greenies.

              • millsy

                So you think it OK for us to have your filthy cows shit in our fucking rivers and make our children drink filthy fucking water and get sick because fuckwit cockies like you want to make a fucking profit,

                • farmboy

                  my cows dont go in rivers as all fenced off fuckhead everytime there a downpour of rain in auckland your fucking shit and piss goes out into the harbour tried eating shellfish lately dickhead and fuckn aye i will make a profit why else would i do it

              • xtasy

                farmboy – you are the exact explanation why I left my parent’s farm, being in a backward minded rural setting, where progress was frowned upon. Now , a few decades later, they are all going broke due to having fallen asleep at the wheel and not realised that alternative farming practices and energy generation are the way to the future.

                Dumb really, but hey, there are many like you. Good luck farming in the back waters of missed history.

                • farmboy

                  alternative farming practise what a fucking load of shit in a couple of years i will have an asset worth 700 000dollars all paid off thats all the progress i need fonterra is nz biggest and most successful company you fucking loser do you not think the world needs milk you ignorant fuck know wonder you left rural area as we have little time for idoits

                  • karol

                    Ah, yes, fb. It’s been good for you and so must be good for the whole country now and in the future.

                    Milk – it’s never been that good for me, as I am a bit lactose intolerant & I can live without it quite well. I hear goats’ milk is not so bad for many people who can’t stomach cows’ milk.

                    And there could be an increase in goat farming in NZ. I understand it is less water-intensive than dairy farming.

                    I think there will always be a place for dairy farming for those who like dairy – and ditto for beef, though I rarely eat red meat myself. Mediterranean diet is healthier anyway.

                    Goat also tastes a lot like lamb – not too bad actually, though it has an unusual smell at first. Eaten it a couple of times.

                  • The Al1en

                    “you ignorant fuck know wonder you left rural area as we have little time for idoits”

                    :lol:

          • QoT 35.1.1.1.2

            Electric cars have sexual orientation?

          • Jenny 35.1.1.1.3

            Hey Jarpie, did you know that Fonterra is one of the biggest users of coal?

            You know, the substance that when burnt causes drought.

            The sort of drought you and others are experiencing right now.

            Are you a share holder?

            How about penning a letter to Fonterra right now, asking them to switch to an alternative.

            You better hurry, the government say they won’t be giving compensation in any more droughts.

            • farmboy 35.1.1.1.3.1

              i dont need compensation you silly bitch go the coal

              IrishBill: and that’s a one month ban. If you behave this way in real life I pity your family.

              • Jenny

                Not yet Jarpie. But if you are really are a farmer, you will eventually. What you and others are experiencing now is what government’s around the world are calling the “New Normal”.

                When you need help, it won’t be there.

                If you can find some way to cover your bills, You could try subsistance farming. But beware, the starving millions will be descending on the countryside like locusts.

                IrishBill: Farmboy has been banned for a month.

                • Jenny

                  Damn!

                  If you are still reading this Farmboy and you have doubts about climate change.

                  As right winger you probably admire the good ol’ US of A, (well, maybe not their black president)
                  But I am sure you have an instinctive regard for their mighty armed forces probably the greatest military force that has ever bestrode the planet.

                  What do they have to say on the subject?


                  How about the US regional commander for the Pacific hemisphere Navy Admiral Samuel J. Locklear III

                  America’s top military officer in charge of monitoring hostile actions by North Korea, escalating tensions between China and Japan, and a spike in computer attacks traced to China provides an unexpected answer when asked what is the biggest long-term security threat in the Pacific region: climate change.

                  Navy Admiral Samuel J. Locklear III, in an interview at a Cambridge hotel Friday after he met with scholars at Harvard and Tufts universities, said significant upheaval related to the warming planet “is probably the most likely thing that is going to happen . . . that will cripple the security environment, probably more likely than the other scenarios we all often talk about.’’……..

                  Locklear said his Hawaii-based headquarters — which is assigned more than 400,00 military and civilian personnel and is responsible for operations from California to India, is working with Asian nations to stockpile supplies in strategic locations and planning a major exercise for May with nearly two dozen countries to practice the “what-ifs…..

                  “The ice is melting and sea is getting higher,” Locklear said, noting that 80 percent of the world’s population lives within 200 miles of the coast. “I’m into the consequence management side of it. I’m not a scientist, but the island of Tarawa in Kiribati, they’re contemplating moving their entire population to another country because [it] is not going to exist anymore.”

                  The US military, he said, is beginning to reach out to other armed forces in the region about the issue.

                  “We have interjected into our multilateral dialogue – even with China and India – the imperative to kind of get military capabilities aligned [for] when the effects of climate change start to impact these massive populations,” he said. “If it goes bad, you could have hundreds of thousands or millions of people displaced and then security will start to crumble pretty quickly.’’

                  Don’t tell me to “go coal” “you silly bitch”.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  I’m not keen on bans, because it removes some of the sport from the site. Puncturing the egos of pompous righties is always tremendous fun.

                  Te Reo Putake

                  If you enjoy that sort of sport TRP you should go to their sites.

                  Jenny

              • Jenny

                I’m a big girl. Let me at him.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Good on ya! Farmboy clearly didn’t like being told the facts of life, particularly by a girl, eh. Won’t be missed.

              • prism

                IB Well thank goodness for that – cow poo smells sweet compared to this vile man and his filthy abuse. Sounds like a member of the Macdonald fan club.

                A while ago I criticised the manslaughter of an ordinary citizen by a shooter operating in a prohibited area, and not following precautionary rules and got a very hostile reaction. Apparently there aren’t any rules for perhaps a large number of these clean-living rural types and you wonder how many are out there who are actually psychopaths.

        • unpcnzcougar 35.1.1.2

          Well RB that’s MMP for you. You can like it or lump it – or move overseas some place where you will feel more at home.

        • phillip ure 35.1.1.3

          psst..!..red’s a colin craig fanboy…

          phillip ure..

        • One Tāne Huna 35.1.1.4

          Redbaiter, your opinion of the National Party is irrelevant, like your blog. Do you honestly think people care about the pedantic minutiae of your criticisms? Your infantile resentment and bile define you as a National Party stalwart, not your argument, if you can call it that.

          Take your hatred of fellow citizens, on display for all to see, for example. The physical manifestation of this contempt can be seen in poor quality housing and infectious disease admission rates, in low wages and worker exploitation.

          Hate speech begets hate policies. Have a nice day.

      • unpcnzcougar 35.1.2

        No, he seems more like Exclusive Brethren to me. Or maybe a fan of Craig’s.

        I don’t think my desire for politeness and respect will prevail, but I refuse to stop trying.

        There are many in National that I can’t stand, Labour and the Greens as well. Such is the dilemma of voting in this era. I have twice stood in the voting booth not knowing what to do as I suspect there are many others. It’s then a case of choosing at the time what you consider to be the lesser of two evils (maybe not the best choice of words).

        If there is someone like a Lange out there please come forth and then the voters will rally.

    • unpcnzcougar 35.2

      Yes the one in this country as defined by the voters. If I lived in American I’d be a Democrat.

      And we’re not ineffectual when it is so easy to just let the “others” damage themselves.

  35. George D 36

    It sometimes seems that moderators here ban people just for disagreeing with the orthodoxy too frequently.

    You should ban Redbaiter though.

    [RL: Try and think about the difference between opinion and behaviour. When you understand this then you'll understand how moderation works.]

    • One Tāne Huna 36.1

      “It sometimes seems that moderators here ban people just for disagreeing with the orthodoxy too frequently”

      Nothing like weasel words for saying what you really don’t think.

      .

    • Colonial Weka 36.2

      People say that GeorgeD, but I don’t get it. Can you point to a couple of examples?

  36. millsy 37

    Anyone with the word ‘cougar’ in her user name is OK by me ;-)

  37. infused 38

    I don’t even know what I was banned for but you should keep me banned.

    • infused 38.1

      But it actually makes sense thinking about it. You’ve pretty much banned everyone that has an opposite view to you. Reading over the last week, there hasn’t been much debate from anyone from the right. So I assume the’re all banned and it’s getting a bit boring having a circle jerk.

      • RedLogix 38.1.1

        You’ve been commenting here for many years, more or less happily saying whatever you like. Therefore you cannot claim that we censor views we do not like.

        You know perfectly well why you picked up a two week ban. It could not have been your view or opinion that attracted it, unless a “yawn” is your idea of intelligent discussion… it was your behaviour as concisely described by QoT.

        • infused 38.1.1.1

          Didn’t actually. I leave comments all over the place and rarely go back unless it’s something I’m interested in.

          It’s not until Irish got his knickers in a twist a bunch of us started getting banned.

          • IrishBill 38.1.1.1.1

            Have I banned you before? I can’t recall.

          • RedLogix 38.1.1.1.2

            I leave comments all over the place and rarely go back unless it’s something I’m interested in.

            So if you’re not interested in most of what you comment on … what was it you were doing again?

            • QoT 38.1.1.1.2.1

              Apparently infused was not only taking the time to comment to prove just how much zie didn’t think the post was worth commenting on, but now wants to take the time to comment to just establish how little zie cares about anything zie comments on, because caring about things is sooooooooo passe.

      • karol 38.1.2

        Actually, there’s plenty of right wing views expressed here. They tend to descend on certain posts, in concert.

  38. johnm 39

    Redbaiter is so far right as to be a fascist. I’m sure he’d be proud to be called that name.

    • BM 39.1

      Redbaiter, I get the feeling he was born a 1000+ years too late, he would have made a great crusader.
      He would have been in his element purging all those infidels.

    • ..red is actually a leftwinger in deep-cover..

      ..he/she performs a splendid role/job by caricaturing the madnesses of the far-right..

      ..and as for allowing people to bitch at each other occaisonally..?..why not..?

      ..know them/judge them by their words/arguments..

      ..nobody bleeds..and when it gets good..it can be very funny..and sometimes wise..

      ..and surely banning should be for only cast-iron/clear-reasons..?..as in clear slander..?

      ..but being banned for saying stupid/contrary things about ideas./writers.?..meh..!..let it go..!

      ..trust in the wisdom of yr crowd to keep them in line..

      ..and surely nobody is scared of the bogeyman of ideolocical-infection..?..

      ..are they..?

      ..nobody is buying (really) reds’-(faux)-message..?..are they..?

      ..so i really can’t think of any reason to ban..save for the legal implications from serious slander..

      phillip ure..

      • RedLogix 39.2.1

        Clearly you are more comfortable in a more noisy confrontational environment than others are. In fact I’d say you were well outside of a 2 sigma limit on a normal distribution curve.

        Unfortunately obnoxious behaviour, drives out quieter more reflective behaviour that might appeal to a wider audience. Not all political junkies are extrovert loud-mouths. Therefore we try and strike a balance that suits us.

        I appreciate you have different preferences and you are welcome to run things your way on your blog. We’ll do it our way on our one. Happy?

    • ropata 39.3

      redbaiter inhabits a simple world where everybody to the left of king james I (the 1611 bible bears his name) is to blame for everything

  39. ianmac 40

    It was always interesting and useful to read the opinions from the right. Matthew Hooten for example should be listened to regardless of the sides people are on. He is a good cook of food for thought.
    It is not the Rightists who diminish this site but the endless repetitive picking on members of the Labour Party by those who purport to be Left.
    I can always ignore the writings of those who irritate me regardless of whose “side” they are on.

    • IrishBill 40.1

      I’m a member of the Labour party and nobody has picked on me. What are you talking about?

      • IrishBill 40.1.1

        Actually I kinda felt like some of you were picking on me by saying I wasn’t “real Labour”. In fact Ian, you’re doing it again with that “purport to be Left” jibe.

        • ianmac 40.1.1.1

          Irish Bill. Should have said “endless repetitive picking on members of the Labour MPs and or the Leadership. I now just skip those who write about some flaw that they claim some MP has. That is not to say that they are perfect. But they are there so make the best of it.

          • IrishBill 40.1.1.1.1

            Ah, you’re talking about the endless repetitive picking on Cunliffe and his supporters?

            • ianmac 40.1.1.1.1.1

              There you go Bill. Mis read if you will. I would include any derogatory comments on any of the Labour MPs.

              • Colonial Viper

                Labour’s claim to being economically left wing over the last 30 years is nothing more than the red team engine braking the country’s slide towards neoliberalism.

                But they are there so make the best of it.

                I really have no idea what the hell kind of attitude this is. A nation is at stake; not the fact that you brought home the wrong flavour ice cream for dinner and have to make do.

          • The Al1en 40.1.1.1.2

            You accept mediocrity and failure if you want to, but shit mps and shit leadership shouldn’t be made best of, but rejected and purged.

            The reason Labour are unelectable is the fault of who again?

            • McFlock 40.1.1.1.2.1

              The electorate committee that select candidates, the conference delegates who took 90 years to decide the membership be directly involved in leadership selection, and members who expect a centrist party with neolib history to actively pursue democratic socialist policies.

    • Pete 40.2

      Hooten doesn’t sail under false colours and I haven’t seen him treat anyone here with disrespect or ad hominem attacks. We know what his goals are and we can play the ball, not the man.

      I think if we get too tribal in our outlook, we’re going to have a hard time convincing floating voters who might come across the site. Heck, even I voted National once upon a time – back when I was reading too much Tom Clancy and P.J. O’Rourke (1999 – I was a knowitall 20 year old uni student and enjoyed being a contrarian attention-whore). People change.

      • MaxwellS 40.2.1

        Pete, you’re ignoring the fact that many people on this website have read the book, ‘the hollow men’, which shows the level of deceit and scumminess that Matthew Hooton was engaging in (alongside other arseholes) during the 2005 election campaign. He also spent a lot of time trying to smear Nicky Hagar (the author of that book), purely because of the truth about Hooton that it revealed. People change, yeah maybe some do, but plenty don’t and if you fail to acknowledge history then it’s going to bite you on the arse.

        • Pete 40.2.1.1

          My belief is that robust social democratic arguments coupled with inherent respect for the dignity of the person can overcome any argument he might bring to bear. Regardless of the questionable and well publicised behaviour he has exhibited in the past. I’m not saying I want to have a beer with the man. I’m saying our side should engage in fair play, even if his side doesn’t. Simply because we are better than that.

          • MaxwellS 40.2.1.1.1

            I don’t disagree but it is unsuprising that his mere presence creates the reaction that it does, given his history.

      • ianmac 40.2.2

        Pete. Agree re Matthew. I listened to what he had to say with Bomber Bradbury on the Daily Blog and it was well thought out and worth the time. I certainly don’t think that he should be abused as readily as he is whenever he is game enough to front up here. (Last year I did make snide remarks aimed at him and now regret it.)

      • QoT 40.2.3

        Hooten doesn’t sail under false colours

        I disagree. I think he purports to post his personal opinions here, when in fact he has a very strong brand and financial dependency on pushing certain viewpoints even when he’s not specifically getting paid for them.

    • Draco T Bastard 40.3

      …repetitive picking on members of the Labour Party by those who purport to be Left.

      What? I’m not of the left?

  40. Steve (North Shore) 41

    Amnesty yeah?
    Redbaiter has got you lot wrapped around his little finger. I got banned for trolling and not being a ‘group member’ and a little humour.
    Red has been at it all day and he still lives.
    Now this has got to be about ratings – let Red loose and the comments and replies go up in the Blogosphere

    • RedLogix 41.1

      You seem to not understand what an ‘amnesty’ is. It is a mass rescinding of existing outstanding penalties. It is NOT carte-blanche to carry on with the behaviour that earned the penalty in the first place.

      For instance from time to time IRD have tax amnesties that give people the chance to come clean, tidy up their tax affairs and get back into the system. It is explicitly NOT the chance to go on dodging tax. Indeed IRD tend to view any repeat offence very dimly indeed.

      Red has been at it all day and he still lives.

      Nonetheless the intent of our amnesty is to wipe the slate clean. Most bans come about from an accumulation of undesirable behaviour … not just one instance. Even Redbaiter got reset to zero.

      All the same I had to trash some extreme, unhinged and grossly abusive comments from RB this morning. You never saw them, but I doubt they’d be acceptable on almost ANY moderated blog anywhere. I assumed they were a toxic outburst of pent-up venom and bile she hasn’t been able to vent for some time. So I just trashed them without further consequence. You should also note that whenever she expresses an actual view or argument, that comment is left alone.

      You have to bear in mind that we tolerated RB’s bad behaviour here for some considerable period before she was perma-banned in the first place; who knows how long she’ll last this time?

      • Steve (North Shore) 41.1.1

        When does my amnesty finish – and when does Redbaiters amnesty finish RL?

        • RedLogix 41.1.1.1

          I think you’ve misunderstood the nature of an amnesty. It is, as I explained, the “mass rescinding (cancelling) of all outstanding bans”.

          In other words if you have an existing ban … of any sort … then it no longer applies and you now are free to comment normally.

          And it also means that as moderators we’ve mentally “reset the clock to zero” on any outstanding behaviour patterns that we’ve been observing. Everyone gets a fresh start.

          But does NOT mean that moderation is ‘off’ or that anyone is getting a ‘free pass’ to behave badly. Normal moderation will still apply.

    • lprent 41.2

      Nope. It is just overdue. I’d have normally done this about the start of 2012 to keep on the rough 18 month schedule I have been following since 2009. However I was rather busy and I tend to do much of the during the weeks work hours moderation. It is getting done now because I finished my current work project 2 weeks ago.

      Other than that the only thing that is unusual is that it announced. I’d usually just wipe the auto moderation and start picking off the fools who can’t read the policy or who do not wish to conform their behaviour to its limits.

  41. Big Bruv 42

    “Redbaiter has got you lot wrapped around his little finger.”

    Oh FFS!.

    Bedwetter is a complete and utter tool, his cheer squad could not raise an IQ of 100 between the four of them.

    I am no fan of the Standard but Bedwetter is an example of why the far right is as dangerous as the far left.

    • Steve (North Shore) 42.1

      It does not take much Big Bruv – just waiting for the Standard to resume normal banning practice.
      They are controllers. I am here as a test, so are many others. Watch the Standard crumble.
      Hey moderators – screenshot taken

      [lprent: Ummm You can read right? Read the policy (if you can of course). When an amnesty happens we clear the current bans, try clear our knowledge about what particular people act like and revert to watching people for troll patterns and giving explanations of the policy and warnings where required - as per the policy.

      Of course if we have to look back into the history about why someone got banned, then we will refresh their memory. But most people apart from the most dumb trolls usually require some time to accumulate the warnings that would normally lead to a ban.

      It is a way of giving people a second chance to participate in the dialogue on the site without the stigmata of their previous behaviour hanging over them too much. ]

      • RedLogix 42.1.1

        Again you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding. “Normal banning practise” as you put it, has not changed. It was never ‘turned off’ and therefore it cannot be ‘resumed’.

        Therefore there is nothing here for you to test….

      • Redbaiter 42.1.2

        “Stigmata”

        Haw haw.. shit you commies are a laff.

    • Redbaiter 42.2

      “Bedwetter is an example of why the far right is as dangerous as the far left.”

      The coward Bigot Bruv- if he’d been in France during the Nazi occupation he would have been slavering at the feet of his Nazi masters begging for a job as a Vichy policeman.

  42. pollywog 43

    A test of what?

    • ropata 43.1

      trolls test mods patience and forbearance, seeing how far they can derail threads, linkwhore, slander or trying to impose their own weird rules

  43. how about an amnesty on the censoring of comments..?

    ..how about letting them fall as they may..?

    ..i stopped reading threads here long ago.because of that practice..

    ..(of just getting an on-message comments-thread..it is bloody boring..actually..

    ..about as exciting as a readers’ digest version of a great book..)

    ..i don’t like others’ judging what i can and can’t read..i can make that call..

    ..as can most adults..

    ..and frankly..i don’t know where you get off even thinking you should so control the message in that way..

    ..it just smacks of pure authoritarianism..a tendency as ugly if from either left or right..

    ..btw..redbaiter maintains a vicious level of censorship at his/her own blog..

    ..funny that..!

    ..phillip ure..

    [lprent: Usually moderators edit comments because they wish to warn people that they are transgressing the policy. So the alternative to [delete] of the offending content and a warning would be to simply ban them. That most people when warned about behaviour in someone else’s place will do the logical thing and either leave or conform to local rules. After all we’re not all rather crass tourists in loud shirts.

    The other reason for doing it is because someone has addressed a comment to the site or a moderator either directly or indirectly like you just did. We usually answer those directly on the comment so that readers including the person asking can read the answer. The alternative would be to leave a comment which in view of the threaded comment model on this site could be 20 or 30 comments below the question in a pretty short time.

    Finally of course, there is always the same old answer. If you don’t like the rules at a blog site, then don’t go there and/or start your own site. There is a reason for this site currently being the largest left political site in NZ and still growing. It has posts and policies that are effective at getting people to read and comment here.

    One of those policies says that the authors make the policies and moderators get irritable with having to explain this repeatedly to people who don’t read or follow the policies on this site. I could be mistaken – but wasn’t that why you picked up a ban last time? ]

    • RedLogix 44.1

      Contemplate the difference between an opinion or argument .. and the manner in which that opinion or argument is presented.

      You seem to think that presentation (or behaviour) does not and should not matter. Maybe it doesn’t to you, and maybe even theoretically in a world full of Spocks it would not. But for the vast majority of people, a loud, offensive and obnoxious presentation DOES matter. It pisses them off and eventually someone takes the bait.

      Then the thread degenerates into a shit-fight of no value to anyone whatsoever.

    • i just went and read yr ‘policy’..

      ..a sentence summary wd be ‘we will do what we want to whom we want whenever we want..for whatever reason we want..and don’t you dare even question us..’cos if you do we will ban you..’

      ..have i got that about right..?

      ..and as some sort of a guideline to casual readers/commenters as to what can and can’t be said in this forum..it totally fails..

      ..it is just an opinionated jumble of words..(like a low-grade speed-rant/talkback-radio..who wrote it..?..and on what..?..)

      ..(now..steel yrslf at that news..!..eh..?..i know how the ‘policy’ is kinda writ sacred..and all that..

      ..but seriously..show me how it provides a clear guideline..(as is its’ purpose..?..surely..?..)

      ..and..i haven’t worn a ‘loud shirt’ since the 80′s..eh..?

      ..and yes..i am pretty sure that gently questioning the capricious nature of censorship here is why you banned me last time..

      ..let the cards fall as they may..eh..?

      ..and maybe you should pause..and gulp down a couple of big breaths..and ask yrslf/wonder if the authoritarian/censoring attitudes shown here are at least part of why so many have turned away from labour/why you are wallowing in the poll-doldrums..

      ..why those million non-voters aren’t looking your way..

      ..it isn’t all shearers’ fault..eh..?

      ..he wasn’t day-one..eh..?

      phillip ure..

      [lprent: I really don't care what you think about it - it is irrelevant, boring, and I've already heard the same crap and answered it from many others including you. I was just more interested that you'd got off your lazy arse and actually read it this time rather than complaining that we were following what we said in the policy.

      I seem to remember that last time around you couldn't be bothered. So don't link-whore too much and don't tell us what we should do on our site - which from memory were what you picked up warnings and/or bans for last time. Your opinion is of little value. If you want to whine about 'censorship' or moderation - then do so on your own site.

      If a moderator leaves you a note, then read it and don't bother arguing about it unless you can offer up reasons that go beyond "I don't like it" (which is all you seem to offer). The next moderator(s) who reads your reply have to make a choice - do we waste more time on you? Usually the answer will be no and you collect a ban.

      We run this site on a voluntary basis and all of us have other things we'd prefer to do rather than dealing with a puffed up self-important self-appointed critics with meaningless blather and unworkable solutions - like writing posts, work, or families. We often offer such critics some direct lessons in who runs this site ]

      • fender 44.2.1

        ……this text…

        …layout..

        …..resembles..eh..

        …’loud shirt’…eh..

        …eh..?.

      • QoT 44.2.2

        Phillip, either you’re extremely disingenuous or you’re lying. Sure, it would be a spiffing little world where blog moderators (and not just at TS) could just “let the cards fall as they may” and leave it to the readers to judge the quality and content and respond as they wished.

        But that spiffing little world would have to be one where women bloggers weren’t often threatened with rape or death. Where political bloggers weren’t often impersonated or threatened with outing their meatspace identities. Where it didn’t get fucking annoying for all the other readers to just see a stream of Redbaiter-esque comments one after the other clogging up the whole thread.

        Also? Pretty sure this comment of yours implies that The Standard is a Labour-Party-run blog:

        ..why those million non-voters aren’t looking your way..

        And while that isn’t explicitly in the policy, I think anyone who’s been around here as long as you should have a pretty clear idea that that’s (a) bullshit and (b) likely to garner negative attention from the moderators.

        • karol 44.2.2.1

          I do think the preference for blog “blood sports” is a pretty aggressive macho/masculine thing (which a minority of women are also into). But I think it would put off a load of women commenters and readers, along with many thoughtful, contemplative and not-so-macho men.

        • phillip ure 44.2.2.2

          did you miss my qualification as to what should be banned..?..qot..?

          ..where did i say people should be able to threaten at will..or the other scary-scenarios you warn of/against..?

          ..factcheck:..i didn’t..

          ..and where did i say the standard is a ‘labour-party-run-blog’..?

          ..factcheck:..i didn’t..

          (but you would be ‘disingenuous’ to try to claim a large number of labour party people don’t read/comment here..eh..?….so comments made to the labour party here are entirely appropriate..)

          ..and you accuse me of ‘lying’..care to give an example..?

          ..and ..most important question of all:..

          ..are there ‘meatspaces’ that cater for vegans..?

          ..phillip ure..

          • QoT 44.2.2.2.1

            I said “either you’re disingenuous or you’re lying”. It sounds pretty disingenuous to me for you to say:

            maybe you should pause … and ask yrslf/wonder if the authoritarian/censoring attitudes shown here are at least part of why so many have turned away from labour

            ..why those million non-voters aren’t looking your way..

            Your comment clearly draws a connection between moderation policies at The Standard and the electoral performance of the Labour Party.

            Just because you obfuscate your meaning with godawful abuse of the ellipsis doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

  44. Do the blogosphere a favour and don’t ever let those utterly boring losers Phil Urinal or Pitiful George back.

    FFS.

    Anything but that.

    I’d rather be staked out naked on an ant hill than read their endless drivel.

    • red..care to explain why you are so scared of challenges to the ideas you peddle at yr blog..?

      ..that you ban at the slightest murmer

      ..and ‘phil urinal’..eh..?

      ..still always classy..eh..?

      ..and about as funny as an anal probe at singapore customs..eh..?

      ..(that’s that rightwing sense-of-humour-byepass at birth kicking in again..eh..?…red…?..)

      phillip ure..

    • xtasy 45.2

      Get staked then!

  45. (now see..this is poetry of sorts..)

    “..if he’d been in France during the Nazi occupation he would have been slavering at the feet of his Nazi masters begging for a job as a Vichy policeman..”

    ..it’s funny ‘cos it’s true etc..

    ..and whereas red would have run full-tilt at the business-opportunities offered by that invading regime..likely (coyly) waving business-cards at them as they marched into paris..

    ..his current love for/involvement with the fascism/state-control practised in singapore is only confirmation of that..

    ..phillip ure..

    • Redbaiter 46.1

      Whatever the political system that exists in Singapore Phil, its citizens are largely content with it and it brought them a standard of living that NZers, held back by a proliferation of brain damaged leftists like you, can these days only ever dream of.

      • phillip ure 46.1.1

        red..they are too scared/cowed to complain..esp publicly..

        ..you know that dissent isn’t allowed there..

        ..and..funny how you purport to be some sorta purist rightwinger..burning bright in yr (however faulty/flawed) idealism/search for ‘freedom’..

        ..and yet not only are you a fanboy of the fascist statism of singapore..you are now also openly pimping for that low-grade god/control-freak..colin craig..(!)

        ..w.t.f..!..

        ..care to explain that one to the incredulous crowd..?

        ..phillip ure..

  46. prism 47

    I see the last three posts are from Redbaiter. I think he has dominated this thread and probably strained what passes for his brain to its full limit. He is an example of why bloggers get the push.

  47. Zetetic 48

    What I find interesting is that Redbaiter and the rest have obviously been watching closely all this time, waiting for a chance to be allowed to comment again. It’s kinda sweet.

    • Redbaiter 48.1

      Yeah that’s right Zetty, nothing we look forward to more than having our comments deleted by Fidel Logix.

      • xtasy 48.1.1

        Redbitcher – get a life, you have a REAL problem, see your psychiatrist, counsellor or a psychologist, it is never too late. You need proper attention and care, I fear you were probably an unwanted and hated child, that would explain your hostility towards others. Politicising it does not help in the long run. Your points here are totally unconvincing, yes even ridiculous. Why do you bother coming to TS when you hate it so much. That explains part of your personal problems. You seek attention, but for the wrong reasons. You are a divided, disturbed character that needs urgent attention and care. I struggle to see you get it, unless you have pockets full of money, the health system offers only bottom of the cliff solutions to persons like you. Let us pray, and let the new pope have give you a due blessing, you need it. Rest in peace – for tonight at least. Amen

    • prism 48.2

      Sweet. Sugar is poisonous in big doses. These people are just drunk on a sugar high and their brains are not wired for anything but attention getting and being shock-jocks. Not likely to get one thoughtful useful policy directed idea from 100 s..tty shallow ones.

      Open slather would ruin this great blog which is already lively with interesting minds bringing new ways of commenting on politics and life. These others are just smart arses doing nothing worthwhile in the world and looking for a way to fill in their leisure hours or minutes rather, as their often series of cheap shots are usually short and fired just to get a satisfying reaction. I think it’s called flaming.

      So the Amnesty will have an end I think. But it could be repeated at a later date perhaps annually. I like this site and for me, it would be ruined by flamers, and input of value would be drowned in dross.

      • Colonial Viper 48.2.1

        Sweet. Sugar is poisonous in big doses.

        And not that big a dose. I suggest that sugar starts being truly harmful beyond about 50g a day for a normal healthy person. And it’s the fructose portion of it which is the worst.

        A single can of coke provides two thirds of that.

        NB it wasn’t until the latter part of the 20th century that most of us consumed that much sugar on a daily basis.

        • Colonial Viper 48.2.1.1

          Ahh sorry for the off topic.

          • prism 48.2.1.1.1

            CV Don’t worry about off topic. What you put was far more relevant than the simple interchange of chumps – Bah you’re Commie idiots v No we’re not and you are a rascally Rightie ad infinitum.

  48. this is relevant to this debate..

    i found this on my rounds this morn..(in the independant..)

    ..it is britains’ ‘top-academic’..who also has a high-profile online life/profile -

    - opining on the ‘rules’ of online commenting/censorship..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2013/britains-top-academic-vs-online-trolls/

    phillip ure

    • Redbaiterbaiter 49.1

      Mary Beard is “Britain’s top academic”?!!???!?!?

      I see academic is now a technical term for glib, smily and vacuous.

  49. johnm 50

    Re Redbaiter
    Rational discussion and debate and commentary can be a bit boring and colourless at times.
    I do believe Redbaiter has a place here! :-)
    He’s like a Circus side show man,with stage and flashing coloured lights,a busker, who does magic tricks and pulls rabbits out of hats and is full of special effects. Some clowning and then the acrobatics followed by loud declamations, the pointing at members of the crowd watching his antics with an invite to come up on stage and join the ACT. The insults thrown at the audience to arouse their feelings- and then on to the Punch and Judy show. Afterwards everyone puts a coin contribution into his hat in appreciation- he livened things up didn’t he?

    • prism 50.1

      johnm
      If you want a circus go to one. There are nice flashes of light-heartedness from various bloggers here which are occasional. Flame throwers and smart-arse non-thinkers don’t contribute to the growth of ideas or useful discussion that informs, they are merely a spray of Roundup that eventually kills off worthwhile growth just leaving the irrepressible weeds.

      If you want something fun go to google and see the Irish colleens dancing.

    • fender 50.2

      I put it to you that there are no rabbits, no light(s), nothing of substance or relevance.

      This sicko reminds me of a vandal that gets its kicks from breaking into a house to smear excrement all over the walls.

      MasturRedbaiter should be in the care of mental health services.

      • Redbaiter 50.2.1

        Yep well, I’m sorry to intrude on the cerebral and tasteful conversations that usually occur here.

        Like this- (from the Hide thread)

        “A bucket of stale piss thrown over him should do the trick too!”

        • fender 50.2.1.1

          You could hold Rodneys hand and share the bucket, you would both end up smelling better.

  50. higherstandard 51

    Thanks but no thanks, I’ll stick with the life ban and spend my time more usefully than trolling about here.

    • IrishBill 51.1

      But you’re my second favorite right-winger on the site!

      • higherstandard 51.1.1

        I’ll miss you most of all scarecrow, and I’d hardly call my self right wing.

    • QoT 51.2

      Except for this comment. And the next one you made.

      … Seriously, people, I’d figured out by 15 that commenting just to show how much you don’t care enough to comment makes you look like a complete sad-sack. What is WITH you all?

    • felixviper 51.3

      “spend my time more usefully than trolling about here.”

      But not so usefully that he didn’t find out about this amnesty business, eh?

  51. vto 52

    Dear God, I don’t think I saw one useful comment by redbaiter in all of that above. It is all just simple outright abuse. It looks like he is an ignorant man incapable of thinking outside his little square head let alone contemplating that views and circumstances and societies change over time. What a pathetic man.

  52. Actually, just kidding, and in spite of my posts on another thread, I’m done here.

    And so are you guys.

    The far left is fucked, and there’s not much you can do about it except tear your own arses off with all of the scratching.

    The real enemy is the National Party and the fake right in NZ. They need to be defeated, and that is where I need to place my efforts.

    Its why you don’t see me here much anymore.

    I won that battle years ago.

    Now I am going after the real problem with this country.

    • (red exits stage-right..to a faint carolling of trumpets..and drumming of horse-hooves..)

      phillip ure..

      • Redbaiterbaiter 54.1.1

        (red exits stage-right..to a faint carolling of trumpets..and drumming of horse-hooves..)

        and braying of donkeys, and bleating of goats, and shrieking of colobus monkeys, and screaming of sky-rockets, and other indicators of gross derangement and insanity.

    • Jenny 54.2

      Glad to hear it. Are you joining the battle against morbid obesity?

      Don’t come back until you have got it under control.

  53. Redbaiterbaiter 55

    (red exits stage-right..to a faint carolling of trumpets..and drumming of horse-hooves..)

    and braying of donkeys, and bleating of goats, and shrieking of colobus monkeys, and screaming of sky-rockets, and other indicators of gross derangement and insanity.

    …and barking of seals, and honking of geese, and wild uncontrolled laughter recorded in a Russian mental asylum

  54. Gosman 56

    Has Redbaiter got himself banned again?

    Interestingly he goes on about how terrible this site is for censoring his opinions yet his own approach is far harsher in this regards. I was banned from his site for being too left wing.

    • One Tāne Huna 56.1

      “His” opinions? He’s little more than an angry parrot if you ask me.

    • karol 56.2

      It was interesting to see how his line in aggressive style admits no weaknesses, claims to be the speaker of incontestable truth, while incorporating loads of such contradictions.

    • lprent 56.3

      Nope. We mostly ban on behaviour rather than opinions (there are a few quite offensive opinions that will get people banned for immediately – as farmboy found out yesterday). While her opinions about politics totally suck, Redbaiter doesn’t often trangress the behaviour that moderators would warn and/or ban for.

      We didn’t ban redbaiter last time. She self-banned and r0b helped her enforce that decision when she weakened and left a comment.

  55. Ratty 57

    I’m still laughing at the Grandpa Simpson comment

  56. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 58

    Is this for Higher Standard? I hope so. He has long been a sensible contributor and his recent lifetime ban seemed a little hysterical (from someone who claims to favour logic).

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