Auckland’s forgotten West

Written By: - Date published: 8:55 am, June 17th, 2014 - 107 comments
Categories: auckland supercity, capitalism, infrastructure, news, public transport - Tags:

The storm that raged through NZ last Tuesday night-Wednesday morning got major news coverage on Wednesday.

Auckland June 2014 storm damage NZ Herald

There was much reporting of power cuts, floods, and wind damage to start with. Then, after most households elsewhere in Auckland had their power reconnected, the news media seemed to be uninterested in the numbers of people in West Auckland still without power or hot water.

As adam commented yesterday on open mike:

Funny when the power went out in Auckland for a day back in 2006 the Troy scum screamed blue bloody murder. Well some of us in West Auckland have either no power or no hot water for a week – the Tory press does bugger all. Yesterday finally something said in Herald but only on full outage –

The problem with hot water not being available is still on going for many. Funny they just can’t get the hot water to work properly again. This is a major structural flaw. I have asked around and many tradesmen fell Auckland is a ticking time bomb, especially it’s power and sewage.

Back in 2006, it was not only major news, but questions were asked about the state of Auckland’s infrastructure.  Central Auckland businesses complained loudly about the hits to their profits.  And the storm and aftermath got its own wikipedia page.

I was one of those who went without hot water for several days.  It would have been easier to cope with, if we had had more information on what was happening.  By Friday night I was beginning to think myself and a neighbour had been forgotten – the only ones in Auckland unable to take a hot shower.  However, the Weekend Herald did have an article on it – albeit with muted outrage, as reported second hand from those in West Auckland still without power.

Today Louis Houlbrooke reports in the NZ Herald that “The legacy of the storm still lingers”

Almost a week after a damaging storm, some Auckland residents were still without hot water last night while the last few houses were having their power restored.

Lines company Vector said at 6pm yesterday it had restored all hot water pilots since Tuesday night’s large gusts that brought down trees and power lines, damaged homes and left 90,000 houses were without power. Vector said it would take four to six hours for the water to heat up.

Four houses on Woodglen Rd in Glen Eden lost power when a tree brought down lines.

Resident Steve Gould said he phoned his power company Mercury Energy the next morning, and Vector arrived about 10.30pm Thursday to disconnect the power.

The company began work on restoring power to the affected houses yesterday afternoon and Mr Gould’s power was restored about 6pm but he did not have hot water.

Henderson resident Gary Hall was without hot water until 5.30pm yesterday. “We lived in India for five months, and it’s actually easier living in India and putting up with their Third World antics than it is living here in New Zealand when you think we’re in the 21st century and they can’t get something like this sorted out,” said Mr Hall.

Richard Doherty and Debbie Ross were nursing their sick 4-year-old daughter when the power went off at their Jillian Drive home in Ranui. They rushed her to hospital at 4am Saturday and she was diagnosed with pneumonia. Ms Ross said it was unpleasant coming home to a cold house at 7am with an unwell child.

There must bee many more such stories out there, and so few reported on.  Since the demise of Waitakere City Council in 2010, and the rise of Rodney Hide’s neoliberal blueprint for an amalgamated wider Auckland.  Parts of west Auckland have become increasingly neglected and marginalised.  Roads in and out of the west in peak times, are down to a slow, tedious crawl.  Public transport, while in some ways improving, is costly for those in the outer west wanting to get to Auckland’s CBD, and not always that reliable.  getting across Auckland from west to north or south can be a logistic nightmare.

And often places like Ranui and Henderson only get reported on when the sensationalist media zero-in on a murder, or dysfunctional behaviour related to synthetic highs.

Henderson, the scene of a killing last week, has increasingly become neglected, with the central are looking pretty derelict. NZ Herald report and photo:

Henderson shop owner killed June 2014 NZH

Now that Paula Bennett has decided she’s actually a North Shore girl, and begun to stake her claim in that area, does John Key’s government really care about the outer reaches of Auckland, especially the West and South?

107 comments on “Auckland’s forgotten West ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1
    17 June 2014 at 9:08 am

    National Party regional development policy involves rendering West Auckland uninhabitable. The refugees will help develop the provinces.

  2. framu 2
    17 June 2014 at 9:20 am

    ever so slightly off topic – but im out west and our phone lines are complete rubbish.

    Every time its a bit damp theres major static on the line and the connection keeps cutting out. No-one could ring our land line for the last 3 mnths. Once we picked the phone up and it sounded like a derranged fax machine had moved in

    of course whenever someone from chorus appears the fault disappears (murphys law and all that) so it never gets fixed

    I know of others out west who have the same problem – any standard westies in the same boat?

    • karol 2.1
      17 June 2014 at 9:28 am

      Not off topic at all. It’s about infrastructure in the West – and how it compares with the rest of Auckland (or NZ?), and how it is reported on by the MSM.

    • Craig Glen Eden 2.2
      17 June 2014 at 10:49 am

      Yup totally agree framu phone troubles out west +1

    • Antonina 2.3
      17 June 2014 at 12:21 pm

      Had that fault for over 40 years – one day a chorus technician actually listened to me and fixed it somehow – been fine for 5 years now.

      • framu 2.3.1
        17 June 2014 at 12:34 pm

        the previous owner told me that he even disconnected the house from the main phone line, attached a service tech’s phone to the line and rang chorus. That was the only way they would accept that it wasnt the wiring in the house that was at fault

  3. Tom Gould 3
    17 June 2014 at 9:23 am

    Hypocrite Hide has the audacity to blame too much nanny state Auckland local government when he set the thing up, under urgency, and appointed his cronies to run the transition and the CCOs. Amazing how the media, especially the National Herald, can’t remember any of that?

  4. Tiger Mountain 4
    17 June 2014 at 10:02 am

    Hot water just on late last night (Mon) in our end of New Lynn (Fruitvale). You get used to making do after 20 years in the Far North but that is not the point here. Some mates rewired their cylinders to plug into a standard power outlet but I was not keen for the obvious reasons.

    The power companies role as uncaring ticket clippers rather than actual utility providers was revealed to all. And once again the precarious nature of urban grid based society glimpsed. Rain water storage and solar power systems need to be considered for all new dwellings and retro fitting.

    You can feel a bit like a Favela resident out West. And “Auckland Checkpoint Watch” on facebook confirms a definite traffic police bias towards South and West Auckland.
    https://www.facebook.com/policepointer?fref=ts

    • karol 4.1
      17 June 2014 at 10:09 am

      Yes, being able to “make do” is not the issue. It’s about the lack of urgency, and general attitude towards customers and limited media interests that are the issues.

      In my younger days I lived for several months on a houseboat with no hot water, and the (hot) bath being onshore. I’ve hitch-hiked in the south of Spain and had cold showers in their winter. Though, as I get older, my system isn’t as hardy and cold showers are more of a shock to my system.

      There are also issues for the very young, the very old, and those with ill health and disabilities, being without power or hot water.

      Interesting about the traffic watch. Thanks.

    • Saccharomyces 4.2
      17 June 2014 at 11:40 am

      “And “Auckland Checkpoint Watch” on facebook confirms a definite traffic police bias towards South and West Auckland.”

      Or…. the people most interested in dodging checkpoints and speedcameras happen to spend more time in West and South Auckland, so post more than people in other areas…..

      • Molly 4.2.1
        17 June 2014 at 11:59 am

        Or the random WOF and Rego tests that required up to eight police officers for several days at Otara Shopping centre that I witnessed, is often replicated in Meadowbank’s Eastgate or on Remuera Road.

        I guess their hit rate is higher for those that are struggling to meet basic housing and food costs, and who let their WOF or Rego ride over for another month…

        • Tracey 4.2.1.1
          17 June 2014 at 2:05 pm

          especially as mt eden, epsom and remuera would catch a number pof young drivers who havent taken the trouble to go for full licences and break the rules with impunity.

  5. Ad 5
    17 June 2014 at 10:06 am

    Well said Karol. Plus for Henderson and Te Atatu South:

    • last to get new electrified trains
    • last to get bus route and fleet uprgades
    • crap broadband
    • no economic growth for years, other than occasional housing construction
    • three fatal crimes recently
    • huge amount of low quality housing built in the 1970s and 1980s
    • low quality courthouse – despite some great judges
    • social services for Maori essentially privatised
    • small and degraded employment precincts, other than bulk retail
    • very few career paths out of school
    • very limited local tertiary eduction
    • huge loss of civic leadership after Waitakere City dissolved
    • no dedicated busway (compare to North Shore) despite motorway now being completely rebuilt
    • no civic leadership of either film industry or boatbuilding industry – previously flourishing
    • only gradually getting on top of P epidemic

    Different story in the greenfields areas of Hobsonville and Massey North.
    Bad doughnut syndrome.

    Pretty damn sad.

    • karol 5.1
      17 June 2014 at 10:15 am

      Yes. Some areas in the west are getting an upgrade while others are being neglected.

      I notice the difference between New Lynn and Henderson. Many in New Lynn have always aligned themselves with central Auckland rather than the west. They have been very happy to be realigned with Auckland Central after 2010.

      There are still many low income families in New Lynn, and all the problems with inadequate public transport. But compared with Henderson, New Lynn’s been getting an upgrade, and central New Lynn is buzzing. I’ve heard anecdotal accounts of rising house prices in the area.

      I suspect that gradually the least well off will need to move further west, while there’s a continual increase in better off households in New Lynn.

      Te Atatu is also an old working class area.

  6. Seti 6
    17 June 2014 at 10:08 am

    It looks “derelict” because a tarpaulin has been strung up to protect a crime scene?

    There’s long bows but you’re drawing this one from one side of Auckland t’other.

    • framu 6.1
      17 June 2014 at 10:11 am

      does one photo show the entirety of central henderson?

      yes thats a rhetorical question

    • karol 6.2
      17 June 2014 at 10:18 am

      It looks derelict to me when I go there – and that’s at least once a week over many years.

      That photo was the most recent I could find of the area, but the to me is fairly representative of the way Henderson has become.

      I often stand waiting for buses and trains there and have plenty of time to observe my surroundings.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 6.2.1
        17 June 2014 at 10:25 am

        It’s in a similar state to many provincial towns then.

        • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.1
          17 June 2014 at 12:24 pm

          Remember that as context: the entirety of NZ is a “provincial town” (or in Hunger Games parlance, a District) within the western political-economic empire.

    • Muzza 6.3
      17 June 2014 at 10:18 am

      All you need to do is walk up great north rd past the Westfields entrance and every second store front is empty, even with Untec at that end of town.

  7. weka 7
    17 June 2014 at 10:09 am

    Christchurch was the watershed moment for NZ with regards to this. You only have to look at what happened there to see where we are at as a nation now.

    In addition to the politics of the now, other questions should be asked about future proofing in the face of Peak Oil/AGW/GFC. How resilient is the essential infrastructure? (am wondering also about smart meters, does failure of electronics mean absolutely no power?). Resilient both in terms of big weather events, but also recovery options afterwards. How much is infrastructure, how much is systems? With AGW we can expect more and more severe weather events. With PO/GFC mixed with neoliberalism we can expect it to be harder to maintain systems that are robust and repairable and adaptable.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1
      17 June 2014 at 10:27 am

      Yep. The model is broken: public utilities are vulnerable to market failure, which is itself made more likely by the Greenhouse Effect.

      • Ennui 7.1.1
        17 June 2014 at 11:25 am

        OAB and Weka are right on the money, and that in a nutshell is the problem. The original concept of a municipal body was to share the costs of the provision of services and infrastructure across a wide base. An area did what it could afford to do and were locally responsible.

        The moment that idiot Bassett pushed through the so called reforms to local government “profit” and “markets” got involved. Delivery went down, cost went up and locals became very remote from the action. Meanwhile we all got sold “bigger is better, more efficient”. It demonstrably is not.

  8. minarch 8
    17 June 2014 at 10:13 am

    The police are scared of West Auckland and it inhabitants

    because we dont like them very much and let them know on a regular basis. In my little part of Waitakere city we look out for each other because we know the police dont/wont come and help from long experience .

    My wife has told the police on couple of occasions “we dont like your sort of people around here , we wont talk to you ,so go away ” when they have arrived at our house looking for previous occupants , Its allways funny to watch them try and figure out what she means..

    but your average beat cop really isnt very bright (check the spelling in their notebooks if you want to see for your self ) so they never get it

    • BM 8.1
      17 June 2014 at 11:27 am

      I can see what the problem might be in West Auckland.

      If you two are a representation of the average westie, the council should just build a big wall around west Auckland and leave you to it.

      • framu 8.1.1
        17 June 2014 at 11:49 am

        which two?

        • BM 8.1.1.1
          17 June 2014 at 11:53 am

          MInarch and his wife.

          • framu 8.1.1.1.1
            17 June 2014 at 11:59 am

            ahh – doh. having a stupid moment

            ” because we know the police dont/wont come and help from long experience”

            but just focus on that bit for a moment – its fairly common, and of late ive been hearing some real bad tales about the west AK police

            remember these are the wonders who failed to even get a search warrant in the roast busters case

            what do you think happens to a community when collectively no-one bothers calling the cops?

            • BM 8.1.1.1.1.1
              17 June 2014 at 12:10 pm

              Any one who thinks treating the police as the enemy is a lost cause, too dumb for words.

              Treat the police with abuse and insults they sure as fuck ain’t going to help you out, I know I wouldn’t if I was in the West Auckland police force.
              I’m not going to put my body on the line for a pack of brainless ferals.

              People want to live law of the jungle style, don’t whine and cry when everything turns to shit.

              • framu …
                17 June 2014 at 12:20 pm

                well true enough – but im not advocating that myself

                “what do you think happens to a community when collectively no-one bothers calling the cops?”

                its not a one way street is it

                • BM …
                  17 June 2014 at 12:39 pm

                  Societal breakdown and lawlessness.

                  Work with the police not against and things will improve out of site

                  This “fuck da police” attitude is the problem and until the people who live in these feral areas grasp that, things are not going to change.

                  The ball is in the ferals court.

                  • mickysavage …
                    17 June 2014 at 12:43 pm

                    Are you saying that all westies are ferals BM?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      17 June 2014 at 12:45 pm

                      Are you saying you’re prepared to give a shred of comfort to those who label people thus MS?

                    • BM …
                      17 June 2014 at 12:47 pm

                      If the majority of Westies consider the police to be the enemy, then yep, it’s Feralsville.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      17 June 2014 at 12:58 pm

                      I’m trying to decide. Which is worse? Stepping in dogshit or reading BM’s hate speech?

                    • framu …
                      17 June 2014 at 12:59 pm

                      proving you dont know shit about west AK and should probably shut up pretty quickly

                      its not a one way street – thats the whole point

                      would you agree that for effective community policing it requires the good work and good will of all parties?
                      would you agree that if either party doesnt pull their weight then everyone else will adopt different measures?

                      pull your head out of your arse for a change

                      im actually making a case for everyone to take responsibility – you on the other hand want to pin it all on people that you dont know, in a community you dont know.

                      Remember – this is the police force that couldnt even get a search warrant for the roast busters case and by all accounts has a pretty bad history with fucking things up – yet its strange that you dont make the same demands of them that you make of people you dont know.

                      Thats not to say they are the enemy however

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      17 June 2014 at 1:02 pm

                      Nah Framu, he wants to be given a nice uniform with shiny buttons and a job opening and closing the security gates.

                    • BM …
                      17 June 2014 at 1:09 pm

                      would you agree that for effective community policing it requires the good work and good will of all parties?

                      would you agree that if either party doesnt pull their weight then everyone else will adopt different measures?

                      Yep I agree, the thing I don’t agree with though that the police have to treat a community differently because the community doesn’t like the police arresting their whanau all the time or impinging on their freedom to do whatever they want.

                      It’s up the the community to step up not for the police to step down to their level.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      17 June 2014 at 1:14 pm

                      Yep. Dogshit is preferable.

                    • framu …
                      17 June 2014 at 2:57 pm

                      bm – good. Now, do you spot where you are the only one saying this below?

                      “the thing I don’t agree with though that the police have to treat a community differently because the community doesn’t like the police arresting their whanau all the time or impinging on their freedom to do whatever they want.”

                      it all started when minarch said

                      ” In my little part of Waitakere city we look out for each other because we know the police dont/wont come and help from long experience .”

                      your entire drawn out objection and general slandering of entire communities is based on something that was never said.

                      No ones asking the police to stoop to their level – the complaint is they arent rising to the communities level so other measures have been taken

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    17 June 2014 at 12:44 pm

                    With any luck they will rise up against those who make up sub-human labels and drive you into the sea.

                  • minarch …
                    17 June 2014 at 1:19 pm

                    Im more than capable of protecting my family and my community if need be

                    we DONT NEED the police

                    come to to my neck of the woods and say were all feral

                    I f++king double dare you you gutless prick …

                    or you could f++k off and hide behind your ornate walls and electric gate and tame policemen on leashes like your sort allways do, not that they will or can protect you

                    F++king pussys…

                  • minarch …
                    17 June 2014 at 1:22 pm

                    my daughter was badly affected by the roast busters, as were a lot of her peers at school.

                    Those boys are not welcome in West Auckland anymore, and its not safe for them here either

                    we look after our own & have strong caring communities

                    • framu …
                      17 June 2014 at 3:03 pm

                      actually – ive never had more people look me square in the eye and say a friendly hello before i moved out west

              • McFlock …
                17 June 2014 at 12:49 pm

                Treat the police with abuse and insults they sure as fuck ain’t going to help you out, I know I wouldn’t if I was in the West Auckland police force.

                Actually, you described one way how this exact situation eventuates.

                Person A treats officer B like crap because officer B couldn’t get there in time due to stretched resources.
                Officer B expects person C to do the same, so turns up more slowly and treats them like crap.
                Person D knows person A and person C, both of whom think the cops didn’t do a thing, so when something happens, why bother calling the cops? They just think person C is one of the “ferals”.

                • minarch …
                  17 June 2014 at 4:57 pm

                  De legitimizing the police is not only beneficial for those they target, but also for police officers’ families and police officers themselves. Not only do police officers have disproportionately high rates of domestic violence and child abuse, they’re also more likely to get killed, commit suicide, and struggle with addiction than most sectors of society. Anything that encourages police officers to quit their jobs is in their best interest, as well as the interest of their loved ones and our society at large

                  • McFlock …
                    17 June 2014 at 5:16 pm

                    Don’t kid yourself that alienating someone is a kindness to them and their families.

                    That’s just replacing one bully with another.

                    • minarch …
                      17 June 2014 at 5:23 pm

                      Im happy to talk to/help any policeman if he takes his uniform off and asks as a fellow citizen, not demands as part of the armed wing of the state

                      Id gladly join a “citizens police force” under the direction on an ELECTED official to help protect my community which I care about deeply and sincerely

                      Its the institution thats dehumanized him not me

                    • McFlock …
                      17 June 2014 at 5:29 pm

                      nah, they’re still human.

                      What you do with that fact is up to you.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                17 June 2014 at 4:34 pm

                Any one who thinks treating the police as the enemy is a lost cause,

                Unless, of course, the police are the enemy.

                Treat the police with abuse and insults they sure as fuck ain’t going to help you out

                A little difficult to do that when they’re not here.

                • minarch …
                  17 June 2014 at 4:51 pm

                  some people will say the police are ordinary workers just like us; they should be our allies.

                  Unfortunately, there’s a big gap between “should be” and “are.”

                  The role of the police is to serve the interests of the ruling class; anyone who has not had a bad experience with them is likely privileged, submissive, or both.

                  Today’s police officers know exactly what they’re getting into when they join the force—people in uniform don’t just get cats out of trees.

                  Yes, most take the job because of economic pressure, but wanting to pay the mortgage on that overvalued house is no excuse for evicting families, harassing young people simply for being young etc..

                  Those whose consciences can be bought are everyone’s potential enemies, not allies.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    17 June 2014 at 5:43 pm

                    Nonsense. If your narrative were ubiquitous you’d have a point, but it isn’t.

  9. john 9
    17 June 2014 at 11:01 am

    We could pay significantly more for our power, and triple the lines repair teams in case they’re needed once every ten years.

    But we don’t want to pay more for power.

    We could pay more for our roads to ease the congestion.

    But there was an article here by LPrent just yesterday saying anybody claiming an increase in traffic is delusional.

    • minarch 9.1
      17 June 2014 at 11:07 am

      how about less bonuses for the Power company execs ?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 9.2
      17 June 2014 at 11:14 am

      People who think building more roads decreases congestion are the delusional ones, John. For once in your life stop relying on your sub-par right wing brain and its sorry excuse for logic, and check some facts from the real world.

      Charitably, I’ll assume for the moment that you are capable of doing a quick reality check without me holding your hand and spoon-feeding it to you.

      • john 9.2.1
        17 June 2014 at 11:19 am

        We have some bits of new motorway in the south that have substantially eased congestion – there’s been a massive improvement.

        Apparently all those people who can now travel along freely at 100kmh when before they were all stop start in traffic, are all deluded.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.2.1.1
          17 June 2014 at 11:26 am

          No. The GFC and increasing fuel costs have reduced traffic volumes.

          Still, since charity is wasted on you, here comes the spoon.

          We investigate the effect of lane kilometers of roads on vehicle-kilometers traveled (VKT) in US cities. VKT increases proportionately to roadway lane kilometers for interstate highways and probably slightly less rapidly for other types of roads. The sources for this extra VKT are increases in driving by current residents, increases in commercial traffic, and migration. Increasing lane kilometers for one type of road diverts little traffic from other types of road. We find no evidence that the provision of public transportation affects VKT. We conclude that increased provision of roads or public transit is unlikely to relieve congestion.

          Duranton, Gilles and Turner 2011. My bold.

        • Tracey 9.2.1.2
          17 June 2014 at 3:54 pm

          Your comments are way off topic. Take it back to the delusional thread bucko. That goes for tge rest of you too. Youve let john hijack a thread about people nit getting basic power back on…

    • karol 9.3
      17 June 2014 at 11:48 am

      r we could improve the public transport that will REALLY ease the congestions – more spent on roads just means more cars on the roads.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 9.3.1
        17 June 2014 at 11:57 am

        findings include:

        The number of vehicle-kilometers traveled (VKT) increases in direct proportion to the available lane-kilometers of roadways. The additional VKT traveled come from increased driving by current residents and businesses, and migration.

        Building new roads and widening existing ones only results in additional traffic that continues to rise until congestion returns to the previous level. Such attempts to “cure” congestion are thus both expensive and ineffective.

        Increasing the lane kilometers for one type of road does not significantly reduce congestion on others — for example, widening highways does little to reduce local congestion.

        Metropolitan areas appear to construct new lane-kilometers of roadway “with little or no regard for the prevailing level of traffic.”

        Because roadways have “natural” levels of congestion to which they always return, mass transit projects will not reduce traffic.

        http://journalistsresource.org/studies/environment/transportation/fundamental-law-road-congestion-evidence-u-s-cities#sthash.nCm9AfFo.dpuf

        PS: Stephen Wolfram is ringing a little bell in my head and saying “Life expands to fill every available niche.”

      • john 9.3.2
        17 June 2014 at 12:02 pm

        Public transport helps, but not to the extent many people think. it’s no good for anybody needing to carry anything, i.e. anybody doing the shopping, trades people, all sorts of delivery.

        As an example, the Greens want to spend billions of taxpayers dollars on an modern dream Auckland rail system, which would transport nearly 100,000 people a day .

        That’s just 7% of Aucklanders, so would do little for the other 93% of Auckland and nothing for the other 98% of NZ.

        We’ve got a low population, that’s quite spread out. I often see our local buses with two or less people on them.

        Our bigger cities certainly could do with better public transport, just like we need a first world first world roading system

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.3.2.1
          17 June 2014 at 12:09 pm

          a first world first world roading system

          How uncharitable of me – I never realised you can show us examples of your magical uncongested utopia. Please don’t tell me you haven’t got a single one. That would make you look like a complete fucking idiot.

        • Colonial Viper 9.3.2.2
          17 June 2014 at 12:09 pm

          Public transport helps, but not to the extent many people think. it’s no good for anybody needing to carry anything, i.e. anybody doing the shopping, trades people, all sorts of delivery.

          Works pretty well for New York, London, Shanghai, Seoul and Singapore. Do you not believe that people in those cities do shopping and carry stuff around on their subways and buses, their laptop bags and briefcases?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 9.3.2.2.1
            17 June 2014 at 12:13 pm

            John doesn’t like public transport: he might meet one of those people.

            • Colonial Viper 9.3.2.2.1.1
              17 June 2014 at 12:16 pm

              Indeed. A lot of those people get off the train from the Wairarapa and Upper Hutt and walk straight to work in Parliament. Must be commies the lot of them.

              • john …
                17 June 2014 at 12:24 pm

                More hilarity – you think plumbers, couriers and buiders can carry our their business by using the Wellington train for their transport.

                You claim you see “a lot of those people”

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  17 June 2014 at 12:27 pm

                  What makes you think that CV thinks that? Are you fucking stupid or just completely out of rational arguments? Scratch that, you never had any to begin with.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  17 June 2014 at 12:27 pm

                  OK plumbers and couriers can use their own trades vehicles then.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    17 June 2014 at 12:29 pm

                    Those vans block the road and get in the way of wealth creators like John.

          • john 9.3.2.2.2
            17 June 2014 at 12:20 pm

            Yeah right – New York, London, Shanghai etc don’t have congestion. That’s funny.

        • karol 9.3.2.3
          17 June 2014 at 12:15 pm

          Actually, I do a lot of my grocery shopping by bus. Can’t carry as much as a car load. But, I adapted. Pick up stuff when I’m out. There are shopping trolley/bags on wheels that help a lot.

          Of course, there are occasions when I need to shop with my car. It’s not about never using a car, but using it less – and especially not for commuting.

          Sounds to me that your travel on motorways is not during peak times. I’m sure they work a treat for those heading to their baches at weekends and public holidays.

          • john 9.3.2.3.1
            17 June 2014 at 12:34 pm

            That’s great, but I shop for a family, so I’d have to make about three return bus trips, which would probably take all day.

            As I’ve said earlier, it’s not about improving roads OR public transport.

            It’s about improving roads AND public transport.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.3.2.3.1.1
              17 June 2014 at 12:36 pm

              So as to ease congestion, right? Which doesn’t work, and never has, and this is why people are convinced that scientists are on to something when they say low IQ predicts for right wing political beliefs.

            • karol 9.3.2.3.1.2
              17 June 2014 at 12:43 pm

              Shopping trips are not the problem. The biggest ones are the daily commutes and people using cars when they could use public transport, walk or cycle.

              It’s not about no use of cars, but using them less.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                17 June 2014 at 12:48 pm

                That, and decreased reliance on sub-standard mental processes.

                • john …
                  17 June 2014 at 1:36 pm

                  You’ve substituted debate for ranting and abuse.

                  If you need that to put some excitement in your life, well and good.

                  I can think of nothing more boring.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    17 June 2014 at 1:44 pm

                    The debate was over years ago. You’re here parroting other people’s failed lines as a substitute for letting the facts drive your conclusions: your toxic false narrative has consequences for everyone else.

                    You people pay lip service to personal responsibility; I’m calling you out.

            • Draco T Bastard 9.3.2.3.1.3
              17 June 2014 at 5:51 pm

              The correct solution for shopping is free delivery – not more roads and more cars. It’d be significantly cheaper than everyone going shopping:

              Example:
              Community of 50,000 houses
              1 Supermarket
              Average of 10 kilometres of travel
              Average time spent shopping 1 hour

              If each house had their own car to go shopping in that means 500,000 kilometres of travel and 50,000 hours used.

              Now we use the same community but introduce deliveries with ordering done online.

              Each delivery delivers to ten houses
              Averages 1 hour
              Averages 10 kilometres of travel
              Average of 10 minutes to do the ordering online

              That’s 5000 deliveries taking up 5000 hours and 50,000 kilometres of travel. There’s another 8333 hours used in online ordering. That’s a saving of ~37,000 hours and 450,000 kilometres of travel. Oh, and 125 full time jobs.

              So, why are people still driving to go shopping?

        • Draco T Bastard 9.3.2.4
          17 June 2014 at 4:51 pm

          Public transport helps, but not to the extent many people think. it’s no good for anybody needing to carry anything, i.e. anybody doing the shopping, trades people, all sorts of delivery.

          Just did my shopping by bus. Really, it’s not hard. Sure, trades people need their own vehicles but nobody else does.

          That’s just 7% of Aucklanders, so would do little for the other 93% of Auckland and nothing for the other 98% of NZ.

          And then later we can more to that PT to increase it to more than 7% of Aucklanders and I’m sure that the Greens are quite enthusiastic about getting better PT to other cities as well.

          I often see our local buses with two or less people on them.

          So have I. I’ve also seen buses so full that they can’t stop to pick up the dozens of people waiting for a bus.

          Our bigger cities certainly could do with better public transport, just like we need a first world first world roading system

          We need a better roading system like we need a bullet in the head. Peak Oil makes cars more uneconomical (they really were uneconomical to begin with).

          • lprent 9.3.2.4.1
            17 June 2014 at 6:21 pm

            Just did my shopping by bus. Really, it’s not hard.

            I did when I was taking the bus from my last two workplaces. 2-4 bags is no hassle. See other people doing it all of the time.

            So have I. I’ve also seen buses so full that they can’t stop to pick up the dozens of people waiting for a bus.

            The inner and outer link buses are usually like that until after about 6. I’ve also seen 3 inner links choked with people stacked up behind each other in the traffic, two whistling past and the last full but stopping.

            They seem to be getting better at it though. I haven’t seen a row of three since last year (now that I think about it).

            • karol 9.3.2.4.1.1
              17 June 2014 at 8:50 pm

              I’ve been out on the buses this arvo and evening. When I left west Auckland, a woman got on the bus with a big shopping trolley (bag on wheels) full of shopping, plus a couple of huge plastic crrier bags. It’s what some people do regularly. The buses were pretty full most of my journeys today.

              Edit: For some reason i can’t log in – get a “you’ve been locked out” message. now this coment has gone to moderation.

              [lprent: It does that with failed logins. Capslock? I will remove it anyway. ]

    • Draco T Bastard 9.4
      17 June 2014 at 4:39 pm

      Or we could halve the cost of power while also increasing the number of linesmen by going back to a state monopoly service.

  10. john 10
    17 June 2014 at 11:39 am

    Tell that to all the people where I live that used to sit in a queue and now travel at 100kmh.

    Tell that to all the people who used to crawl though Orewa north of Auckland, who now sit on the motorway at 100kmh.

    If better roads don’t make any difference, we’d be better off taking all the motorways and mutli lane roads back down to narrow winding roads with a single lane in each direction.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1
      17 June 2014 at 11:52 am

      That’s the thing with charity: you have every right to refuse it.

      I note your failure to recognise that the better roads we built since the days of single lane highways (we, not you, you wanted the private sector to do it) didn’t ease congestion. Your right wing brain has failed you again 😆

      • john 10.1.1
        17 June 2014 at 12:17 pm

        The roads where I live are busier than ever however travel times into the city are HALF what they were a couple of decades ago.

        Similarly State Highway 1 to Christchurch is busier than ever, but the journey is hours quicker than it used to be.

        You fail to recognise that our population is rising, and continues to rise, REGARDLESS of whether new roads are built – not BECAUSE new roads are built.

        Whole streets of Auckland have two houses nearly every section where there used to be only one.

        People immigrate to NZ because of the economy.

        I bet if you asked them if they immigrated because a new road was built, they’ll look confused and ask you what you are going on about.

    • karol 10.2
      17 June 2014 at 11:52 am

      Actually, I’ve been northwards on the northern from Takapuna between 4-5pm. The traffic is already slowing to a crawl as we approach the upper harbour highway. The busway eased the road congestion somewhat.

      Much of the congestion leaving/approaching New Lynn at peak times is due to bottlenecks on feeder roads. The congestion on the motorway has been eased by ramp lights. I see nothing in the Waterview plan that will ease the congestion on the feeder roads. It looks only to get worse without a major public transport upgrade.

  11. Populuxe1 11
    17 June 2014 at 12:07 pm

    On behalf of the people of Christchurch, boo hoo, suck it up

    • karol 11.1
      17 June 2014 at 12:11 pm

      Thanks. That’s really helpful.

      • Populuxe1 11.1.1
        17 June 2014 at 11:01 pm

        It’s really hard to be sympathetic about your wee booboo having had to cope for three months without water and in some cases power.

    • Colonial Viper 11.2
      17 June 2014 at 12:14 pm

      Acerbic 😈

      Sacrifice zones…where a nation no longer has the will or capacity to keep building itself up, and cannot even satisfactorily maintain and renew what it has got.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2.1
        17 June 2014 at 12:15 pm

        Disaster Capitalism to the rescue.

      • karol 11.2.2
        17 June 2014 at 12:19 pm

        “Sacrifice zones” – sounds like what’s happening in NZ – East Christchurch, South Auckland, parts of West Auckland…. some provincial towns.

        And those living elsewhere congratulate themselves and our government for its (alleged) rockstar economy.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2.2.1
          17 June 2014 at 12:24 pm

          Do any of these ingrates vote National?

        • Colonial Viper 11.2.2.2
          17 June 2014 at 12:31 pm

          Chris Hedges featured on Bill Moyers – Capitalism’s “sacrifice zones.”

          There are forgotten corners of this country where Americans are trapped in endless cycles of poverty, powerlessness, and despair as a direct result of capitalistic greed. Journalist Chris Hedges calls these places “sacrifice zones,” and joins Bill this week on Moyers & Company to explore how areas like Camden, New Jersey; Immokalee, Florida; and parts of West Virginia suffer while the corporations that plundered them thrive.

          “These are areas that have been destroyed for quarterly profit. We’re talking about environmentally destroyed, communities destroyed, human beings destroyed, families destroyed,” Hedges tells Bill.

          http://billmoyers.com/segment/chris-hedges-on-capitalism%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98sacrifice-zones%E2%80%99/

          • Colonial Viper 11.2.2.2.1
            17 June 2014 at 12:32 pm

            Note how the mainstream media conveniently “forget” these parts of the country, making the suffering of the people within effectively invisible.

            • Tracey 11.2.2.2.1.1
              17 June 2014 at 2:27 pm

              IN Auckland I think you get judder bars on your street once the average house value goes well over $1m for your street.

              • Colonial Viper …
                17 June 2014 at 3:27 pm

                And it’s important that the people of Otahuhu help pay for those nice judder bars.

    • Tracey 11.3
      17 June 2014 at 4:43 pm

      so having suffered loss of services your compassion for other victims of natural occurrances is zero?

  12. Tracey 12
    17 June 2014 at 2:16 pm

    slightly off topic, but maybe on too. I’ve posted here about my borther. He is pretty right wing. Love him like a brother tho 😉

    he learned the immigration gig from Aussie Malcolm and has built a successful business in that field. He and I never talk about politics because we are too often miles apart.

    There is NOTHING about immigration he doesn’t know. he was talking to me about Maurice Williamson’s departure. he was pleased to see him gone. he also said that when he has clients who do not meet criteria and should be refused IF they go to their MP and their MP is a National MP, they get to bypass the rules and get approved. he doesn’t say that lightly and he doesn’t say that as a supporter of the left. Like many he had an almost pathalogical hatred for Helen Clark. In other words he has no vested interest in making this up to share with me. His last clients were in Jamie Lee Ross’s electorate. My brother told me that Kate Wilkinson is the “NO’ person in immigration except when the client is in an national electorate.

    I post it here because until Bennett started pretending she was a hard core Westie, it was generally regarded as pretty much a Labour neck of the woods. If there aren’t the votes in it, and their polling must suggest west auckland is a lost cause, this government doesn’t seem to give a shit. That’s no excuse and definitely no excuse for media outlets.

    Mind you, arent there still portaloos in labour electorates in Christchurch?

  13. Instauration 13
    18 June 2014 at 12:00 am

    Vector have a different Call Centre and number for those West and North “customers” from those in Central and South Auckland.
    Odd – that the Vector outage map of last Wednesday mirrors this demographic;

    http://imgur.com/tjrAhVk

    I suspect a significant difference of historical investment and maintenance of aerial transmission lines and undergrounding profiles in these “secondary” areas.

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