# Back to school for Parata

Written By: - Date published: 8:01 am, May 22nd, 2012 - 26 comments
Categories: education - Tags:

Parata on The Nation: “what we’ve had is a five-fold increase in the number of teachers while we’ve only had a 2% increase in students”. There are 52,500 teachers. Is Parata really saying there were only 10,500 a decade ago? The minister needs remedial maths, methinks.

This is the tragedy: our kids’ education being toyed with by nincompoops and dullards whose objective has nothing to do with education and everything to do with crushing teachers’ unions for ideological and political reasons.

Update: It also turns out that Parata has been saying teachers are paid an average of \$71,000. In fact, that’s the average including head teachers and those in management. The real average wage for all teachers is \$47,000. Guess Parata needs to do some primary school level set theory too.

## 26 comments on “Back to school for Parata”

1. Carol 1

Aha! So here we have the truth about that claim by Parata that the average teacher pay is \$71,000.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/police-paid-more-teachers-because-life-line-parata-ck-119149

Speaking on yesterday’s TV3’s The Nation programme, Ms Parata conceded that while police started their careers at a salary of around \$45,000, teachers got around \$10,000 less.

Ms Parata said the average pay for teachers, including head teachers and those in management positions was \$71,000 but for the full range of teachers was it was only \$47,232.

2. Clashman 2

It’s called lying.

3. Colonial Viper 3

Five times more teachers means that class sizes must now be around the 6 students per teacher mark. Amazing!

4. Dv 4

If you divide the amount teachers are paid by no employed ie principals to first year teacher the average is about 71k

• Carol 4.1

But using that stat is misleading because most people take it for the median wage: ie that 50% of teachers earn more than that.

• Colonial Viper 4.2

If you divide the amount teachers are paid by no employed ie principals to first year teacher the average is about 71k

Yeah, just like how port of Auckland worker is paid \$200,000 p.a. if you average in the pay of the Tony Gibson CEO and the rest of the executive team.

• Dv 4.2.1

This is the comment i made on 19th may.

19 May 2012 at 5:41 pm

Parata is quoting average teacher salary of 71,000 , only reached after several years experience.

that is the top of the scale for a class room teacher AND it started on the 13th of may this year.

So the 71k cannot be the average for the ‘ordinary’ teacher.

I smell spin.

5. tc 5

WTF is wrong with the so called MSM when they allow a minister to lie so blatantly.

Are they so under the thumb of this gov’t or are they badly prepared, or both, that they’ve no numbers at their fingertips to be able to refute and challenge a minister.

Key and his ministers have been doing this for years and continue unchallenged, what a joke our media is.

• ghostwhowalksnz 5.1

Tolley generally stayed away from interviews as she couldnt give any coherent message.

It seems that Trish Parata is stuck in the same babbling brook

• muzza 5.2

TC – This is what you get when you have coporations (media), which depend on advertising revenues, being driven by tabloid style politics, aimed at an ever declining public cranial capacity! Not forgetting that global media is the propaganda arm of those same warmongering, government controlling banking cartels!

Those who pass as journalists and reporters these days are the epitomy of uninformed (faces), who do not have the thinking capacity or time for proper research. If they lack the numbers to challenge, that is one thing, if they are being told not to challenge, that is another!

We can expect nothing from the MSM, that is not in their best interests, its as simple as that!

6. captain hook 6

so parata cant do sums.
its a fair bet she cant read either.

7. fabregas4 7

I equally find it hard to believe that the average wage of teachers alone is \$47k (and I am on their side). There is a consensus I think that the average age of teaching staff in the country is increasing and this would mean that a great number of teachers would have passed through the salary steps. Unit payments would also play a part. That said haven’t met too many teachers who don’t deserve their pay. The cost of training to be a teacher also needs to be considered. Most teachers end up with substantial student debt – too be even greater now with 4 year qualification. If you want to make the comparison with the police – they get paid whilst training and begin their working life, as difficult as it is, without the burden of student loans.

8. prism 8

That’s the trouble with percentages. You need to know the base amount that it refers to. They seem such an easy way for us ordinary people to make judgments but are just part of the picture. There’s a cynical saying that 100% rise from 0 is still 0. Percentages are not simple measures and give wrong understandings as in the use of confusing. statistics.

I read that figure of \$71,000 and thought it was amazingly high from my understanding of teacher’s salaries. That it refers to principals and head teachers and secondary specialist teachers in science etc. would be more likely. The throwaway figures given to the media to disseminate amongst the unwary public is another indication of the irrational and sly way that pollies treat their preparation and presentation of policy. In a modern society we expect better than being led by the nose as poor ignorant peasants.

9. Wayne 10

Why are so many of the stats in The Standard in the primary articles often so demonstrably wrong. It has been known for a long time that the \$71,000 covers all teachers, those starting through to those with management responsibility. The \$47,000 is a starting salary for graduates. I know the scale starts lower, but that is for teachers without a graduate qualification and is really a relic of the past. The reality is that all new teachers need a graduate qualification. ZETETIC could have easily checked all of this before he posted.

[Parata herself has admitted the average for all teachers in \$47,000. Teachers start on \$35,000 and the peak base rate is \$71,000. It’s in the collective. It’s funny how the right begrudge teachers their modest pay when many of them are on massively higher incomes and do fuck all. Zet]

10. Ross 11

Earlier this year I asked the Ministry of Education for details of secondary school teachers’ pay. I got dicked around but eventually was informed that the average pay is \$65,659 (and this figure excludes the pay of principals, deputy principals, assistant principals, and relievers and also excludes allowances). I was further informed that 6,075 employees (secondary teachers?) were paid below this figure and 15,708 employees above this figure.

11. Stephen D 12

I was told once that some time back, a teachers pay and a backbenchers pay were the same rate. Is there any way to verify that? Can’t find my round the Statistics Dept.

12. captain hook 13

All this focus on teachers.
how are there percentages.
are they getting any smarter?

13. Wayne 14

As the Collective demonstates (good that it was included in the comment by Zet) the starting salary for a Q3 teacher (a person who has a 3 year degree) is \$45,568 and a Q3+ teacher (a person with a 3 year degree and a diploma of teaching) is \$46,908. I suggest it would be very difficult for anyone now to get a first time teaching position without these qualifications. That is why \$47,000 is not the average.

14. sunshine 15

So is this the same math that says port workers get 91,000 a year?
Every day we see more and more common trends, privatisation, reduction of services, figures that don’t add up…pretty obvious really. How thick do they think we are?
Oh yeah, they want to cut education, so they make sure people don’t have the thinking skills to analyse their spin.

15. Hateatea 16

Payrates for Primary teachers
Pay for primary school teachers varies depending on qualifications and experience.

With a three-year Diploma of Teaching qualification, you start on \$34,847 a year. Pay rises each year for seven years to \$55,621 – the maximum on this pay scale.
With a three-year Bachelor of Education (Teaching) or equivalent, or an Advanced Diploma of Teaching, you start on \$45,568. You can reach a maximum of \$67,413 after seven years.
With four years’ tertiary study, you start on \$46,908 a year, and can reach a maximum of \$70,877 after seven years.

and for Secondary
Pay
Secondary school teachers with four years’ tertiary study start on \$47,023 a year, but can earn more depending on additional qualifications and experience.
Pay increases each year for seven years according to a fixed scale, with the maximum pay \$71,000 a year.

Secondary school teachers may earn more than this if:

they take on management roles such as dean or head of department
they teach the shortage subjects of maths, physics, chemistry, English, or te reo Māori, where they receive an extra \$3,500 a year for up to five years, paid in their third, fourth and fifth years of teaching
they teach in a school that is identified as one that is hard to staff, where they receive an extra \$3,500 in their third, fourth and fifth years of teaching
they teach in a private or independent school, which sometimes pay an extra \$2,000 to \$3,000 a year.

Source: ‘Secondary Teachers’ Collective Agreement’, 2011, and Ministry of Education website.
Either the minister assumes that all are on the maximum or she is feeding us spin in the hope that we will believe her uncritically. Surely not?

16. DH 17

Something I think Labour & Greens need to improve on is their research & challenging of this Govts abuse of statistics. We’ve had this discussion on average teachers pay before and it’s still not settled. This link shows the numbers;

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/ED1009/S00093/teacher-pay-figures-are-correct.htm

Note a couple of points they make;

“The total base salary bill for secondary teachers for that fortnight’s pay was \$46 million. The total allowances bill for secondary teachers was \$4.5 million. ”

Then they say;

“Added together, base salary plus allowances provided the total pay for secondary teachers.

“We divided that total pay by the 18,522 secondary teachers on the teacher salary payroll, and arrived at the figure of \$71,110.”

But, and here’s the big but, their factoid says….

• Payday: 7 April 2010

• Number of FTE secondary teachers: 18,522

• Total base salary paid: \$46,023,875

• Total allowances paid: \$4,494,135

• Total pay: \$50,518,010

• Total pay divided by number of teachers = \$2,727.46

• \$2,727.46 multiplied by 26.07 (total number of pay periods per year) = \$71,110.

Note the bit about FTE teachers. That’s stands for Full Time Equivalents and it cannot exist on a teacher salary payroll, it’s a calculated number not a real one. Yet they claim to be using payroll figures. That suggests the numbers are not simple maths as stated in that article and may have been manipulated to give a false average.

It also still hasn’t been resolved whether the average includes the 310 principals and 627 senior management who are counted as teachers by MED but don’t actually teach. They’d take the average up a lot since they get paid heaps more than teachers. Info on that here;

http://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/statistics/schooling/teaching_staff

Would be nice to see this settled for once & for all.

Also note that Paratas 52,000 teachers is not FTE, they use the big numbers when it suits them.

17. Simon 18

So using these figures.

50,518,010 as total pay for fortnight and 26.07 pay periods

for 18522 FTEs you get \$71,110

for 52,000 teachers average is actually \$25,327.
This also includes all part time teachers.

Median will be somewhere in between

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SkS Highlights... Toon of the Week... Quote of the Week... Graphic of the Week... Rebuttal Article Update... He Said What?... SkS in the News... SkS Spotlights... Coming Soon on SkS... Poster of the Week... SkS Week in Review... 97 ...
3 days ago
• Sunday reading 28 August 2016
‘Sir George Grey Special Collections, Auckland Libraries, AWNS-19410723-34-27’ Hi y’all and welcome to Sunday Reading. Here’s a collection of stuff I found interesting over the week. Please add your links in the comments below. Whoops, we forgot to build housing. During ...
Transport BlogBy Kent Lundberg
3 days ago
• Sunday reading 28 August 2016
‘Sir George Grey Special Collections, Auckland Libraries, AWNS-19410723-34-27’ Hi y’all and welcome to Sunday Reading. Here’s a collection of stuff I found interesting over the week. Please add your links in the comments below. Whoops, we forgot to build housing. During ...
Transport BlogBy Kent Lundberg
3 days ago
• 2016 SkS Weekly News Roundup #35
A chronological listing of the news articles posted on the Skeptical Science Facebook page during the past week. Sun Aug 21, 2016 91,000 Electric Cars Sold In Europe In 1st Half Of 2016 by James Ayre, Clean Technica, Aug ...
4 days ago
• Guest Post: Rail Safety Week – A HSEQ Perspective
This is a guest post from Harriet.  Recently we have had Rail Safety Week, the aim was to increase awareness of level crossings and their danger. Unfortunately we have had many deaths and injuries, with countless more near misses over ...
Transport BlogBy Guest Post
4 days ago
• A wheely suitcase in Europe #6: San Sebastian to Gijon
After four nights in San Sebastian, Basque we journeyed further west to Gijon, Asturias. Again we decided to use BlaBlaCar, mainly because the alternative rail and bus journeys were slower and more expensive respectively. The route we took is illustrated below, which as you ...
Transport BlogBy Stu Donovan
4 days ago

• Prince of Wales encourages sustainable forest management
Two new forestry awards for New Zealand and Australia were announced at the New Zealand Institute of Forestry Conference in Dunedin. ...
17 hours ago
• Biosecurity is everyone’s business – join the conversation
The future of New Zealand's biosecurity system is under the spotlight with the Ministry for Primary Industries' (MPI) Biosecurity 2025 consultation phase well under way. ...
18 hours ago
• Victims Encouraged to Fight Back
Victims of crime are being encouraged to fight back in an effort to stop the increasing level of burglaries and violent crime ...
19 hours ago
• Victims Encouraged to Fight Back
Victims of crime are being encouraged to fight back in an effort to stop the increasing level of burglaries and violent crime ...
19 hours ago
• Māori students elect new leadership
Te Huinga Tauira, the annual Māori Students' Conference ended in Wellington on Sunday after new leadership was elected to carry on the fight for Māori students. ...
19 hours ago
• NZ Participation in US-led Korea War Games Foolish
The New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) is again participating in US-led military exercises in the Korean peninsula. The US claims these are necessary to protect South Korea against an invasion from the North, but this has absolutely no credibility. ...
20 hours ago
• Key’s drilling plan “in freefall”
Tuesday, August 30: In the wake of last week’s reports that oil giant Shell is having a firesale of its New Zealand assets, prospecting company ION Geophysical has also now relinquished its oil surveying permits, which covered almost half of ...
21 hours ago
• Key’s drilling plan “in freefall”
Tuesday, August 30: In the wake of last week’s reports that oil giant Shell is having a firesale of its New Zealand assets, prospecting company ION Geophysical has also now relinquished its oil surveying permits, which covered almost half of ...
21 hours ago
• CPAG says, “We can do much better for our children”
Child Poverty Action Group (CPAG) will this Friday, 2 September, table a discussion of the biggest issue facing low-income families in New Zealand today - the Government's "social investment approach" to welfare reform. CPAG’s concern is that ...
22 hours ago
• Park Up For Homes final protest in Palmy
The #ParkUpForHomes movement has seen over 2000 people rally together in locations across New Zealand, standing for the rights of all Kiwis to have a safe, warm home to live in. This Friday, Park Up For Homes will hold its ...
22 hours ago
• Inquiry into Management of Sex Offenders Supported
Corrections Minister Judith Collins suggestion of an independent inquiry into the management of released sex offenders (TVOne ‘Q and A’ 28 August 2016) is timely, says Dr Kim Workman, Adjunct Research Associate, at the Institute of Criminology, ...
22 hours ago
• Community housing groups ready to help homeless people
New Zealand needs to put roofs over the heads of the growing number of homeless people now – not in 25 years, says Community Housing Aotearoa. And CEO Scott Figenshow is calling on the Government to introduce capital funding so ...
23 hours ago
• E tū manufacturing industry agreement ratified
The Metal and Manufacturing Industries Collective Agreement has been ratified with members accepting a 2-year deal including a 2% pay rise this year, and 2% in 2017. ...
24 hours ago
• An Apology? Surely NZ needs a Royal Commission of Inquiry
Labour’s Justice spokesperson, Jacinda Ardern, recently called on the NZ Government to issue an apology for historic abuse in state institutions. Previously Social Development Minister, Anne Tolley had said that she would apologise to any child who was abused ...
1 day ago
• Let’s blame Helen Clark for, well, everything
The New Zealand Policy Institute was disappointed to hear today the Prime Minister compare his government’s record on housing with that of the previous government. ...
1 day ago
• Rally for Democracy 10 September 2016
New Zealanders from all walks of life will come together on 10th September in a Day of Action that will affirm our democratic rights and support initiatives to build a fairer and more sustainable society. There will be rallies, marches, ...
1 day ago
• Govt Must Be Honest On Swimmable Rivers
If the government is sincere about swimmable rivers and lakes for New Zealand, they’ll need to answer a few questions for the public says freshwater campaign group, Choose Clean Water. ...
1 day ago
• Are Euthanasia Advocates now Attacking Our Religious Freedom
Right to Life is concerned and alarmed at attacks on religious freedom made in statements made recently by Matt Vickers and David Seymour MP , challenging submissions opposing euthanasia by people of religious faith. Matt Vickers at a (above linked) ...
1 day ago
• Free Press: Muldoon Lives!
On the weekend New Zealand First challenged the Prime Minister to dictate which branches Westpac could and couldn’t close, because Westpac is the Government’s banker. The taxpayer would effectively be subsidising Westpac to keep some branches open ...
1 day ago
• Energy scenarios help in NZ’s energy investment planning
A new report to support long-term investment in New Zealand’s electricity transmission grid was released today. The Electricity Demand and Generation Scenarios (EDGS), published by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE), explores ...
2 days ago
• Energy scenarios help in NZ’s energy investment planning
A new report to support long-term investment in New Zealand’s electricity transmission grid was released today. The Electricity Demand and Generation Scenarios (EDGS), published by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE), explores ...
2 days ago
• Talks to strengthen ties between NZ and Timor-Leste
Talks to strengthen ties between New Zealand and Timor-Leste A new Asia New Zealand Foundation initiative aims to build understanding between young people in Timor-Leste and New Zealand. ...
2 days ago
• Rob McCann selected as candidate in the Otaki electorate
Rob McCann selected as Labour’s 2017 candidate in the Otaki electorate Rob McCann has been selected as the Otaki Labour Party candidate for the 2017 General Election. ...
2 days ago
• Overwhelming support for medical cannabis law change
A new poll conducted for cannabis campaigners shows New Zealanders want the law changed now, says NORML. ...
2 days ago
• Survey shows many Kiwis support rodeo ban
The ongoing campaign to ban rodeos in New Zealand is very much in tune with public opinion, according to a new survey commissioned by SPCA New Zealand and SAFE. ...
2 days ago
• NZ children’s family lives often complex and fluid
Conventional notions of family life that underpin New Zealand’s social policies do not match the reality of many young New Zealanders’ lives, new University of Otago research suggests. ...
2 days ago
• NZ children’s family lives often complex and fluid
Conventional notions of family life that underpin New Zealand’s social policies do not match the reality of many young New Zealanders’ lives, new University of Otago research suggests. ...
2 days ago
• Three horses dead from jumps races in three weeks
The death toll in New Zealand jumps racing continues to mount with three horses killed in three weeks, bringing the total for the jumps racing season so far to seven. Twentythirtyfour was euthanised after he fractured a hind leg in ...
2 days ago
• Three horses dead from jumps races in three weeks
The death toll in New Zealand jumps racing continues to mount with three horses killed in three weeks, bringing the total for the jumps racing season so far to seven. Twentythirtyfour was euthanised after he fractured a hind leg in ...
2 days ago
• Housing supply, affordability and homelessness
Mayoral candidate Phil Goff wants the new council to focus on faster and cheaper building consents as part of the drive to increase housing supply, more affordable housing schemes, and a co-ordinating role to tackle homelessness. ...
2 days ago
• Housing supply, affordability and homelessness
Mayoral candidate Phil Goff wants the new council to focus on faster and cheaper building consents as part of the drive to increase housing supply, more affordable housing schemes, and a co-ordinating role to tackle homelessness. ...
2 days ago
• New Rules Ensure Prisons Safe for Visiting Children
New rules for children visiting prisoners will ensure children’s safety is paramount. The new rules come into effect on 1 September 2016 and will require that all visits to prisons by children under 16 are pre-approved by their guardian and ...
2 days ago
• Trust Labels Hamilton Judge Offender Friendly
“This sentence doesn’t even come close to fitting the crime let alone punishing the offender. Justice Ailsa Duffy should be ashamed of herself and she should be removed from the bench. If cumulative sentences had been used Tipene could very ...
2 days ago
• Q&A: Twyford – A State of Emergency in Housing
State of Emergency in Housing Should Be Declared: Twyford The Government should declare a state of emergency to deal immediately with the housing crisis, according to Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
2 days ago
• Collins: Courts Need to Do More
Collins: Courts Need to Do More About Keeping Sex Offenders From the Public. The Minister of Corrections , Judith Collins, says Public Protection Orders should be used more by the courts to keep sex offenders away from potential victims in ...
2 days ago
• Inquiry essential into payments to minister’s constituents
Christchurch mayoral candidate John Minto is calling for an independent investigation into last week’s revelations that the National government paid out four of National MP Gerry Brownlee’s wealthy constituents \$595,000 each when they were entitled ...
2 days ago
• Phil Goff out of ideas
Auckland Mayoral Candidate, Vic Crone, says Phil Goff's housing policy announcement today shows he's out of ideas and is taking from others . ...
2 days ago
• Special Family Holiday Is Not ‘Truancy’
Family First is rejecting claims that family holidays during the term are ‘unjustifiable’ absences and a form of truancy. ...
2 days ago
• Increased support for medicinal cannabis law reform
Hot on the heels of the NZ Drug Foundation cannabis poll, a new poll by UMR shows increased support for medicinal cannabis law reform, including strong support for treating it as a herbal remedy. ...
2 days ago
• Increased support for medicinal cannabis law reform
Hot on the heels of the NZ Drug Foundation cannabis poll, a new poll by UMR shows increased support for medicinal cannabis law reform, including strong support for treating it as a herbal remedy. ...
2 days ago
• On The Nation: Patrick Gower interviews Philip Rucker
Now, there are just over 70 days to go until America elects a new president. Despite the ongoing meltdown, which is otherwise known as Donald Trump’s campaign, some pundits do say anything could happen. So just what is going on ...
2 days ago
• On The Nation: Patrick Gower interviews Nick Smith
Smith denies the Government has been missing in action over landbanking in Auckland, saying he can’t force private developers to spend money. ...
2 days ago
• Safer Hours Mediation between NZRDA and DHBs set down
Mediation between the NZ Resident Doctors Association and the District Health Boards has been set down for Monday, September 12. ...
5 days ago
• “An Army of Poets’ Voices” Raised Loudly for Justice
A massive “poetry slam” aimed at all voices united on justice, is to be held on Thursday 27th October, 2016 at St Paul’s Crypt (Auckland) [ announced today, NZ’s National Poetry day .] ...
5 days ago
• Easter trading law change boost for tourism
Easter trading law change boost for tourism The new Easter Sunday trading law will benefit both the tourism industry and local economies, Tourism Industry Aotearoa says. TIA has long advocated for Easter trading laws to be liberalised, and is welcoming ...
5 days ago
• Select Committee Told To Scrap Greater Powers
Adding yet another layer of legislation to the statute books will not improve local government performance, infrastructure provision, nor enhance local democracy, Democrats for Social Credit Deputy Leader and Local Government Spokesperson, Chris Leitch told ...
5 days ago
• Drugged driving initiative welcomed by Road Safety Education
The governments recent announcement to crack down on drugged driving is welcomed by Road Safety Education. (5) ...
5 days ago
• Ruataniwha Dam must be scrapped
Friday 26 August - The shambles that is water management in Hawke’s Bay is another reason the Ruataniwha Dam must be scrapped, says Greenpeace. ...
5 days ago
• Flexible” Drone Regulations Add Concern for NZ Pilots
The concerns of New Zealand pilots and air traffic controllers about the ‘woeful inadequacy’ of safety regulation around the commercial use of drones, or Unmanned Aerial System/Vehicles (UAS), are yet to be taken seriously, the New Zealand Air ...
5 days ago
• Air New Zealand staff recognised for record profit
E tū and FARSA members at Air New Zealand will be celebrating a \$2500 bonus today as the airline announces a record profit. The bonus is recognition of the role Air New Zealand employees working through their union have played ...
5 days ago