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The Standard

Back to school for Parata

Written By: - Date published: 8:01 am, May 22nd, 2012 - 26 comments
Categories: education - Tags:

Parata on The Nation: “what we’ve had is a five-fold increase in the number of teachers while we’ve only had a 2% increase in students”. There are 52,500 teachers. Is Parata really saying there were only 10,500 a decade ago? The minister needs remedial maths, methinks.

This is the tragedy: our kids’ education being toyed with by nincompoops and dullards whose objective has nothing to do with education and everything to do with crushing teachers’ unions for ideological and political reasons.

Update: It also turns out that Parata has been saying teachers are paid an average of $71,000. In fact, that’s the average including head teachers and those in management. The real average wage for all teachers is $47,000. Guess Parata needs to do some primary school level set theory too.

26 comments on “Back to school for Parata”

  1. Carol 1

    Aha! So here we have the truth about that claim by Parata that the average teacher pay is $71,000.

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/police-paid-more-teachers-because-life-line-parata-ck-119149

    Speaking on yesterday’s TV3’s The Nation programme, Ms Parata conceded that while police started their careers at a salary of around $45,000, teachers got around $10,000 less.

    Ms Parata said the average pay for teachers, including head teachers and those in management positions was $71,000 but for the full range of teachers was it was only $47,232.

    • Aha.

      I also could not understand that figure and my wife who is a senior teacher was wondering what happened to her pay … 

  2. Clashman 2

    It’s called lying.

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    Five times more teachers means that class sizes must now be around the 6 students per teacher mark. Amazing!

  4. Dv 4

    If you divide the amount teachers are paid by no employed ie principals to first year teacher the average is about 71k

    • Carol 4.1

      But using that stat is misleading because most people take it for the median wage: ie that 50% of teachers earn more than that.

    • Colonial Viper 4.2

      If you divide the amount teachers are paid by no employed ie principals to first year teacher the average is about 71k

      Yeah, just like how port of Auckland worker is paid $200,000 p.a. if you average in the pay of the Tony Gibson CEO and the rest of the executive team.

      • Dv 4.2.1

        This is the comment i made on 19th may.

        19 May 2012 at 5:41 pm

        Parata is quoting average teacher salary of 71,000 , only reached after several years experience.

        that is the top of the scale for a class room teacher AND it started on the 13th of may this year.

        So the 71k cannot be the average for the ‘ordinary’ teacher.

        I smell spin.

  5. tc 5

    WTF is wrong with the so called MSM when they allow a minister to lie so blatantly.

    Are they so under the thumb of this gov’t or are they badly prepared, or both, that they’ve no numbers at their fingertips to be able to refute and challenge a minister.

    Key and his ministers have been doing this for years and continue unchallenged, what a joke our media is.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 5.1

      Tolley generally stayed away from interviews as she couldnt give any coherent message.

      It seems that Trish Parata is stuck in the same babbling brook

    • muzza 5.2

      TC – This is what you get when you have coporations (media), which depend on advertising revenues, being driven by tabloid style politics, aimed at an ever declining public cranial capacity! Not forgetting that global media is the propaganda arm of those same warmongering, government controlling banking cartels!

      Those who pass as journalists and reporters these days are the epitomy of uninformed (faces), who do not have the thinking capacity or time for proper research. If they lack the numbers to challenge, that is one thing, if they are being told not to challenge, that is another!

      We can expect nothing from the MSM, that is not in their best interests, its as simple as that!

  6. captain hook 6

    so parata cant do sums.
    its a fair bet she cant read either.

  7. fabregas4 7

    I equally find it hard to believe that the average wage of teachers alone is $47k (and I am on their side). There is a consensus I think that the average age of teaching staff in the country is increasing and this would mean that a great number of teachers would have passed through the salary steps. Unit payments would also play a part. That said haven’t met too many teachers who don’t deserve their pay. The cost of training to be a teacher also needs to be considered. Most teachers end up with substantial student debt – too be even greater now with 4 year qualification. If you want to make the comparison with the police – they get paid whilst training and begin their working life, as difficult as it is, without the burden of student loans.

  8. prism 8

    That’s the trouble with percentages. You need to know the base amount that it refers to. They seem such an easy way for us ordinary people to make judgments but are just part of the picture. There’s a cynical saying that 100% rise from 0 is still 0. Percentages are not simple measures and give wrong understandings as in the use of confusing. statistics.

    I read that figure of $71,000 and thought it was amazingly high from my understanding of teacher’s salaries. That it refers to principals and head teachers and secondary specialist teachers in science etc. would be more likely. The throwaway figures given to the media to disseminate amongst the unwary public is another indication of the irrational and sly way that pollies treat their preparation and presentation of policy. In a modern society we expect better than being led by the nose as poor ignorant peasants.

  9. Wayne 10

    Why are so many of the stats in The Standard in the primary articles often so demonstrably wrong. It has been known for a long time that the $71,000 covers all teachers, those starting through to those with management responsibility. The $47,000 is a starting salary for graduates. I know the scale starts lower, but that is for teachers without a graduate qualification and is really a relic of the past. The reality is that all new teachers need a graduate qualification. ZETETIC could have easily checked all of this before he posted.

    [Parata herself has admitted the average for all teachers in $47,000. Teachers start on $35,000 and the peak base rate is $71,000. It’s in the collective. It’s funny how the right begrudge teachers their modest pay when many of them are on massively higher incomes and do fuck all. Zet]

  10. Ross 11

    Earlier this year I asked the Ministry of Education for details of secondary school teachers’ pay. I got dicked around but eventually was informed that the average pay is $65,659 (and this figure excludes the pay of principals, deputy principals, assistant principals, and relievers and also excludes allowances). I was further informed that 6,075 employees (secondary teachers?) were paid below this figure and 15,708 employees above this figure.

  11. Stephen D 12

    I was told once that some time back, a teachers pay and a backbenchers pay were the same rate. Is there any way to verify that? Can’t find my round the Statistics Dept.

  12. captain hook 13

    All this focus on teachers.
    what about the pupils.
    how are there percentages.
    are they getting any smarter?

  13. Wayne 14

    As the Collective demonstates (good that it was included in the comment by Zet) the starting salary for a Q3 teacher (a person who has a 3 year degree) is $45,568 and a Q3+ teacher (a person with a 3 year degree and a diploma of teaching) is $46,908. I suggest it would be very difficult for anyone now to get a first time teaching position without these qualifications. That is why $47,000 is not the average.

  14. sunshine 15

    So is this the same math that says port workers get 91,000 a year?
    Every day we see more and more common trends, privatisation, reduction of services, figures that don’t add up…pretty obvious really. How thick do they think we are?
    Oh yeah, they want to cut education, so they make sure people don’t have the thinking skills to analyse their spin.

  15. Hateatea 16

    Payrates for Primary teachers
    Pay for primary school teachers varies depending on qualifications and experience.

    With a three-year Diploma of Teaching qualification, you start on $34,847 a year. Pay rises each year for seven years to $55,621 – the maximum on this pay scale. 
    With a three-year Bachelor of Education (Teaching) or equivalent, or an Advanced Diploma of Teaching, you start on $45,568. You can reach a maximum of $67,413 after seven years.
    With four years’ tertiary study, you start on $46,908 a year, and can reach a maximum of $70,877 after seven years.

    and for Secondary
    Pay
    Secondary school teachers with four years’ tertiary study start on $47,023 a year, but can earn more depending on additional qualifications and experience. 
    Pay increases each year for seven years according to a fixed scale, with the maximum pay $71,000 a year.

    Secondary school teachers may earn more than this if:

    they take on management roles such as dean or head of department
    they teach the shortage subjects of maths, physics, chemistry, English, or te reo Māori, where they receive an extra $3,500 a year for up to five years, paid in their third, fourth and fifth years of teaching
    they teach in a school that is identified as one that is hard to staff, where they receive an extra $3,500 in their third, fourth and fifth years of teaching
    they teach in a private or independent school, which sometimes pay an extra $2,000 to $3,000 a year.

    Source: ‘Secondary Teachers’ Collective Agreement’, 2011, and Ministry of Education website.
    Either the minister assumes that all are on the maximum or she is feeding us spin in the hope that we will believe her uncritically. Surely not?

  16. DH 17

    Something I think Labour & Greens need to improve on is their research & challenging of this Govts abuse of statistics. We’ve had this discussion on average teachers pay before and it’s still not settled. This link shows the numbers;

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/ED1009/S00093/teacher-pay-figures-are-correct.htm

    Note a couple of points they make;

    “The total base salary bill for secondary teachers for that fortnight’s pay was $46 million. The total allowances bill for secondary teachers was $4.5 million. ”

    Then they say;

    “Added together, base salary plus allowances provided the total pay for secondary teachers.

    “We divided that total pay by the 18,522 secondary teachers on the teacher salary payroll, and arrived at the figure of $71,110.”

    But, and here’s the big but, their factoid says….

    • Payday: 7 April 2010

    • Number of FTE secondary teachers: 18,522

    • Total base salary paid: $46,023,875

    • Total allowances paid: $4,494,135

    • Total pay: $50,518,010

    • Total pay divided by number of teachers = $2,727.46

    • $2,727.46 multiplied by 26.07 (total number of pay periods per year) = $71,110.

    Note the bit about FTE teachers. That’s stands for Full Time Equivalents and it cannot exist on a teacher salary payroll, it’s a calculated number not a real one. Yet they claim to be using payroll figures. That suggests the numbers are not simple maths as stated in that article and may have been manipulated to give a false average.

    It also still hasn’t been resolved whether the average includes the 310 principals and 627 senior management who are counted as teachers by MED but don’t actually teach. They’d take the average up a lot since they get paid heaps more than teachers. Info on that here;

    http://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/statistics/schooling/teaching_staff

    Would be nice to see this settled for once & for all.

    Also note that Paratas 52,000 teachers is not FTE, they use the big numbers when it suits them.

  17. Simon 18

    So using these figures.

    50,518,010 as total pay for fortnight and 26.07 pay periods

    for 18522 FTEs you get $71,110

    for 52,000 teachers average is actually $25,327.
    This also includes all part time teachers.

    Median will be somewhere in between

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  • Mainfreight ‘appalled’ by Government’s rail madness
    The Government has been given a serve by New Zealand-based international trucking and logistics firm Mainfreight which says it lacks a national transport strategy, and has treated rail badly, Labour's Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford says. The company has told shareholders it… ...
    2 days ago
  • National’s Health and Safety Reform Bill: less safety and fewer rights at...
    The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions is embarking on a campaign to fight the changes that weaken the Health and Safety Reform bill. As part of the campaign the CTU has organised vigils with the display of 291 crosses… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    2 days ago
  • All options need to be put on meat sector table
    Farmers must be given every assurance that all potential risks have been considered before Silver Fern Farms opens its door to foreign equity, Labour’s Primary Industries spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “The ongoing saga involving the meat sector and amalgamation has… ...
    2 days ago
  • Flag the referendum if 50% or more don’t vote
    Labour has moved to have the second flag referendum canned if the first attracts fewer than half the eligible number of voters, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “John Key has already wasted more than $8 million on his vanity project… ...
    2 days ago
  • 90,000 cars reclassified in botched ACC ratings
    New figures obtained by Labour show the ACC Minister’s botched motor vehicle levy system has resulted in 90,000 vehicles having to be reclassified so far – at a cost of $6 million, Labour’s ACC spokesperson Sue Moroney says. “Nikki Kaye’s… ...
    3 days ago
  • Brutal health cuts confirmed, crucial services suffer
    Chronic under-funding by National has seen the health budget slashed by $1.7 billion in just five years, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says. A report by Infometrics, commissioned by Labour, shows health funding has been cut in four of the… ...
    3 days ago
  • Meth ring under Serco’s nose
    The news that two Serco inmates have been arrested for helping to run a methamphetamine ring from prison should be the final straw and see their contract cancelled, says Labour’s Corrections Spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “National has stood by Serco despite… ...
    4 days ago
  • Ministers failing women and their own targets
    New figures showing just five Ministers have met the Government’s own reduced targets for appointing women to state sector boards is evidence National is failing Kiwi women, Labour’s Women’s Affairs spokesperson Sue Moroney says. “The Ministry for Women’s 2015 Gender… ...
    4 days ago
  • Charges up for some as funding up for grabs
    A proposal being considered by the Government would see some people having to pay more for health care and district health boards forced to fight amongst themselves to fund regional health services, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says “Information leaked… ...
    4 days ago
  • Stop experimenting on kids
    The trouble with the Charter school model is that it is a publicly funded experiment on children. The National Government has consistently put its desire to open charter schools ahead of the safety of the children in them, ignoring repeated… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    4 days ago
  • Bank puts the squeeze on mid Canterbury farmers
    News that an unnamed bank in Ashburton has put a receiver on notice over financially vulnerable farmers will send a chill through rural New Zealand, says Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson. “The Government needs to work with  New Zealand’s banks… ...
    4 days ago
  • Key is trading away New Zealand land and homes
    John Key yesterday admitted what National dishonestly refused to confirm in Parliament last week – he is trading away New Zealand’s right to control who buys our homes and land, says Opposition leader Andrew Little. “The Prime Minister must now… ...
    5 days ago
  • Razor gang takes scalpel to health
    Plans by the Government to take a scalpel to democratically elected health boards are deceitful and underhand, coming just months after an election during which they were never signalled, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says “Leaked documents reveals a radical… ...
    5 days ago
  • Spin lines show a department in chaos
    Corrections Spin Doctors sending their place holder lines to journalists instead of responding to serious allegations shows the scale of chaos at the department over the Serco scandal, says Labour’s Corrections Spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “As more and more serious allegations… ...
    7 days ago
  • Court ruling shows law should never have been passed
    A High Court ruling that a law banning prisoners from voting is inconsistent with a properly functioning democracy should be a wake-up call for the Government, Labour’s Justice spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. In an unprecedented ruling Justice Paul Heath has… ...
    1 week ago
  • Judicial Review Gamble Pays Off for Problem Gambling Foundation
    Congratulations are due to the Problem Gambling Foundation (PGFNZ) who have won their legal case around how the Ministry of Health decided to award their contracts for problem gambling services to another service provider. Congratulations are due not just for… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    1 week ago
  • Environmental Protection Agency appoints GE advocate as new CEO
    This week, the Environmental Protection Authority Amendment Bill passed its first reading in Parliament. The Bill puts protection of the environment into the core purpose of the Environmental Protection Authority. This month, Dr Allan Freeth, the former Chief Executive of… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    1 week ago
  • Charanpreet Dhaliwal death demands genuine health and safety reform
    The killing of a security guard on his first night on the job is exactly the kind of incident that National’s watered-down health and safety bill won’t prevent, says Te Atatu MP Phil Twyford. The coronial inquest into 22-year-old Charanpreet… ...
    1 week ago
  • Arbitrary sanctions hit children hardest
    Increasing numbers of single parents are being penalised under a regime that is overly focussed on sanctions rather than getting more people into work, Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni says. “Figures, obtained through Parliamentary questions show 3000 more sanctions,… ...
    1 week ago
  • Hekia just won’t face the facts
    Hekia Parata’s decision to keep troubled Whangaruru Charter school open despite being presented with a catalogue of failure defies belief, goes against official advice and breaks a Government promise to close these schools if they were failing, says Labour’s Education… ...
    1 week ago
  • No more silent witnesses
    Yesterday I attended the launch of a new initiative developed by and for Asian, Middle eastern and African youth to support young people to name and get support if there is domestic violence at home. The impact on children of… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    1 week ago
  • Single Use Plastic Bags campaign – Some wins and some green-washing
    As we near the end of Plastic Free July I’m nearing the conclusion of my Say No To Plastic Bag tour when I will have completed all 30 of my public meetings. The campaign was designed to work with community… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    1 week ago
  • Single Use Plastic Bags campaign – Some wins and some green-washing
    As we near the end of Plastic Free July I’m nearing the conclusion of my Say No To Plastic Bag tour when I will have completed all 30 of my public meetings. The campaign was designed to work with community… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    1 week ago
  • Minister must take responsibility for problem gambling debacle
    The Government’s handling of the Problem Gambling Foundation’s axing in a cost-cutting exercise has been ham-fisted and harmful to some of the most vulnerable people in society, Associate Health Labour spokesperson David Clark says.“Today’s court ruling overturning the axing of… ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour will not support TPP if it undermines NZ sovereignty
    The Labour Party will not support the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement unless key protections for New Zealanders are met, Opposition leader Andrew Little says.“Labour supports free trade. However, we will not support a TPP agreement that undermines New Zealand’s sovereignty. ...
    1 week ago
  • Coleman can’t ignore latest warnings
    Resident doctors have advised that a severe staffing shortage at North Shore Hospital is putting patients’ lives at risk, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says. “They say a mismatch between staffing levels and patient workloads at North Shore has… ...
    1 week ago
  • ACC must remove barriers to appeals
    The Government must prioritise removing barriers to justice for ACC claimants following a damning report by Acclaim Otago, Labour’s ACC spokesperson Sue Moroney says. “ACC Minister Nikki Kaye must urgently scrap her flawed plan to remove claimant’s right to redress… ...
    1 week ago
  • Six months’ paid parental leave back on the agenda
    Six months’ paid parental leave is back on the agenda and a step closer to reality for Kiwi parents after Labour’s new Member’s Bill was pulled from today’s ballot, the Bill’s sponsor and Labour MP Sue Moroney says. “My Bill… ...
    1 week ago
  • Sole parents at risk of having no income
    New requirements for sole parents to undertake a reapplication process after a year is likely to mean a large number will face benefit cancellations, but not because they have obtained work, Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni says. “Increasing numbers… ...
    1 week ago
  • Juking the Welfare Stats Again
    Last week the government’s major initiative to combat child poverty (a paltry $25 increase) was exposed for what it is, a lie. The Government, through the Budget this year, claims to be engaging in the child poverty debate, but instead,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    1 week ago
  • OCR rate cut a result of flagging economy
    The Reserve Bank's decision to cut the Official Cash Rate to 3 per cent shows there is no encore for the so-called 'rock star' economy, says Labour's Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson.   "Today's interest rate cut comes off the back… ...
    1 week ago
  • Reboot to an innovation economy, an Internet economy and a clean economy
    In my short 33 years on this planet we’ve seen phenomenal technological, economic and social change, and it’s realistic to expect the next 33 will see even more, even faster change. You can see it in the non-descript warehouse near… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes MP
    1 week ago
  • Bill that puts the environment into the EPA passes first hurdle
    A Bill that puts the environment squarely into legislation governing the Environmental Protection Authority passed its first reading today, says Meka Whaitiri.  “I introduced this member’s bill as the current law doesn’t actually make protecting the environment a goal of… ...
    1 week ago
  • Key’s KiwiSaver deception exposed
    KiwiSaver statistics released today expose John Key's claim that the cutting of the kickstart payment "will not make a blind bit of difference to the number of people who join KiwiSaver” to be duplicitous, says Labour Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson.  “Official… ...
    1 week ago
  • Minimum Wage Amendment Bill to protect contractors
    All New Zealanders should be treated fairly at work. Currently, the law allows non-employment relationships to be used to get around the minimum wage. This is unfair, says Labour MP David Parker. “The Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill, a… ...
    1 week ago
  • Bill raises bar to protect Kiwi farmland
    The Government’s rubber-stamping of every one of the nearly 400 applications from overseas investors to buy New Zealand farm land over the last three years proves tougher laws are needed, Labour MP Phil Goff says. “In the last term of… ...
    1 week ago
  • Costly flag referendum should be dumped
    John Key must ditch the flag referendum before any more taxpayer money is wasted, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “Millions of dollars could be saved if the Prime Minister called a halt to this hugely expensive, and highly unpopular, vanity… ...
    1 week ago
  • Nats letting Serco off scot free
    Government members have prevented Parliament’s Law and Order select committee from getting answers out of a senior Serco director about the fight clubs being run at Mt Eden prisons, says Labour’s Corrections Spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “At today’s Law and Order… ...
    1 week ago
  • Charter school experiment turns into shambles
    The National Government’s charter school experiment has descended into chaos and it’s time for Hekia Parata to stop trying to cover up the full extent of the problems, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “The Education Minister must release all… ...
    1 week ago

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