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	<title>Comments on: The real hustle</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: lyndon</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-132488</link>
		<dc:creator>lyndon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 03:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-132488</guid>
		<description>So what if you saved the money, then paid the loan off when the saving+bonus hit the critical point?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what if you saved the money, then paid the loan off when the saving+bonus hit the critical point?</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-131101</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 11:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-131101</guid>
		<description>Fascinating stuff all this talk about shuffling loans and delaying payments but be careful,  in the last few weeks IRD has started to get real nasty on repaying loans. My wife made an arrangement with IRD about repaying the whole of her loan over the next 2 years(it&#039;s around 9000) simply because of the hard word being put on her to pay up,then a few weeks ago the rules changed and the bastards wanted all the money NOW (and she&#039;s still studying) and disavowed any knowledge of the previous arrangements. There&#039;s something going on here. Could it be that the more money you get in the more likely you are to keep your job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating stuff all this talk about shuffling loans and delaying payments but be careful,  in the last few weeks IRD has started to get real nasty on repaying loans. My wife made an arrangement with IRD about repaying the whole of her loan over the next 2 years(it&#8217;s around 9000) simply because of the hard word being put on her to pay up,then a few weeks ago the rules changed and the bastards wanted all the money NOW (and she&#8217;s still studying) and disavowed any knowledge of the previous arrangements. There&#8217;s something going on here. Could it be that the more money you get in the more likely you are to keep your job.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnty Rhodes</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-131086</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnty Rhodes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 09:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-131086</guid>
		<description>no more free lunches you idiots.
All students knew they would have loans, to think it would be interest free feva was dumb.

welcome to the real world. You pay if you play.

best of all, my Uni education was free, I finished in 1990. This was the last year before Student loans came in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no more free lunches you idiots.<br />
All students knew they would have loans, to think it would be interest free feva was dumb.</p>
<p>welcome to the real world. You pay if you play.</p>
<p>best of all, my Uni education was free, I finished in 1990. This was the last year before Student loans came in.</p>
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		<title>By: blair</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-131031</link>
		<dc:creator>blair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 03:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-131031</guid>
		<description>Trevor - At this link Mary Holm suggests that even if you have an interest free loan it is worth using this in your last three years (by my read).  so I don&#039;t think its credible to say &quot;the policy only works for students if interest on loans is resintated.&quot;

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&amp;objectid=10567170</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trevor &#8211; At this link Mary Holm suggests that even if you have an interest free loan it is worth using this in your last three years (by my read).  so I don&#8217;t think its credible to say &#8220;the policy only works for students if interest on loans is resintated.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&#038;objectid=10567170" rel="nofollow">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&#038;objectid=10567170</a></p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Mallard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-131020</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Mallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 02:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-131020</guid>
		<description>While the exact figures are subject to a bit of debate - 3% is too low over a loan period. The policy only works for students or former students if interest on loans is reinstated. Treasury are currently working on policy in that area. For the record my source is not a treasury official.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the exact figures are subject to a bit of debate &#8211; 3% is too low over a loan period. The policy only works for students or former students if interest on loans is reinstated. Treasury are currently working on policy in that area. For the record my source is not a treasury official.</p>
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		<title>By: Poli</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-130983</link>
		<dc:creator>Poli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-130983</guid>
		<description>Thanks Pat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Pat</p>
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		<title>By: Voluntary student unionism is a tough one &#171; Life and Politics.co.nz</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-130974</link>
		<dc:creator>Voluntary student unionism is a tough one &#171; Life and Politics.co.nz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-130974</guid>
		<description>[...] that is hugely subsidised via the taxpayer because of it being interest free (good god I hope the rumours about the Nats kyboshing that in the Budget aren&#8217;t true or I&#8217;ll be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that is hugely subsidised via the taxpayer because of it being interest free (good god I hope the rumours about the Nats kyboshing that in the Budget aren&#8217;t true or I&#8217;ll be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-130964</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-130964</guid>
		<description>Hi Poli, you have to be working AND contributing to KiwiSaver for at least 3 years.  Then you can withdraw your contributions plus the employers plus interest, but not the govt contributions.  

So if you were earning $40,000, at 8% you would be contibuting $3,200 p.a. plus employer $800 p.a. and Govt $1,040

So after 3 years you can withdraw $12,000 plus interest returns.  After 5 years this would be $20,000.  (DISCLAIMER:  Depending on what fund you choose, it is possible that you could have lost some money.  If you intend to use KiwiSaver to buy your first home, you should start off with a conservative fund).

Depending on the purchase price and location of the house, you may also qualify for the First Home Buyers Subsidy.  This is another $1,000 a year for each year you were in KiwiSaver, up to $5,000.  

Hence why I think it works well for young couples who plan ahead e.g.

Mr Poli after 3 years $12,000 plus $3,000 = $15,000 plus the same for Mrs Poli = $30,000 Deposit = 10% on a first home of $300,000.

Mr Poli after 5 years $20,000 plus $5,000 = $25,000 plus the same for Mrs Poli = $50,000 Deposit = 10% on a first home of $500,000.

I have a website you can find out more on www.oregon.co.nz  
Plus Mary Holm has her new book out, which is the bible on KiwiSaver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Poli, you have to be working AND contributing to KiwiSaver for at least 3 years.  Then you can withdraw your contributions plus the employers plus interest, but not the govt contributions.  </p>
<p>So if you were earning $40,000, at 8% you would be contibuting $3,200 p.a. plus employer $800 p.a. and Govt $1,040</p>
<p>So after 3 years you can withdraw $12,000 plus interest returns.  After 5 years this would be $20,000.  (DISCLAIMER:  Depending on what fund you choose, it is possible that you could have lost some money.  If you intend to use KiwiSaver to buy your first home, you should start off with a conservative fund).</p>
<p>Depending on the purchase price and location of the house, you may also qualify for the First Home Buyers Subsidy.  This is another $1,000 a year for each year you were in KiwiSaver, up to $5,000.  </p>
<p>Hence why I think it works well for young couples who plan ahead e.g.</p>
<p>Mr Poli after 3 years $12,000 plus $3,000 = $15,000 plus the same for Mrs Poli = $30,000 Deposit = 10% on a first home of $300,000.</p>
<p>Mr Poli after 5 years $20,000 plus $5,000 = $25,000 plus the same for Mrs Poli = $50,000 Deposit = 10% on a first home of $500,000.</p>
<p>I have a website you can find out more on <a href="http://www.oregon.co.nz" rel="nofollow">http://www.oregon.co.nz</a><br />
Plus Mary Holm has her new book out, which is the bible on KiwiSaver.</p>
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		<title>By: Kiwipolitico &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Hope springs eternal</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-130962</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiwipolitico &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Hope springs eternal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-130962</guid>
		<description>[...] on 11:06, May 1st, 2009 by Lew   Over at The Standard the aptly-titled Mathemagician has been snapped trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat to prove that the government&#8217;s student loan carrot is in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on 11:06, May 1st, 2009 by Lew   Over at The Standard the aptly-titled Mathemagician has been snapped trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat to prove that the government&#8217;s student loan carrot is in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mathemagician</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-130960</link>
		<dc:creator>mathemagician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-130960</guid>
		<description>totally agreed.

Thanks for pointing out my errors Pat.

I&#039;ve sent a new table to the Standard&#039;s gmail. Hopefully the fix will be up soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>totally agreed.</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing out my errors Pat.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve sent a new table to the Standard&#8217;s gmail. Hopefully the fix will be up soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Poli</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-130959</link>
		<dc:creator>Poli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-130959</guid>
		<description>Sorry Pat, I know this is off topic but what are the rules surrounding the use of your kiwisaver funds to purchase your first home? Being a student, and about to enter the workforce, I am interested in finding out what rules apply in relation to using your kiwisaver savings to purchase the first house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Pat, I know this is off topic but what are the rules surrounding the use of your kiwisaver funds to purchase your first home? Being a student, and about to enter the workforce, I am interested in finding out what rules apply in relation to using your kiwisaver savings to purchase the first house.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-130958</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:39:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-130958</guid>
		<description>Agree with evidence.  I would go further and say that a new graduate starting work with an interest free student loan should NOT pay it off quicker.

Instead they should set KiwiSaver contributions at 8% from their first payday.  They haven&#039;t earned any money to date, so they won&#039;t miss them.  On top they get 2% from the employer and $1,040 from govt each year.  Over a 40 year working life, this is the best thing they can do.  Get used to not having 8%.

On top of that they can withdraw contributions after 3 years to buy a house, plus get an extra $3,000-$5,000 from the first home subsidy.  If they are really smart and found their longterm partner, they can buy the house together and he/she can do the same thing - effectively double their deposit.

Bottom line for any new graduate, or anyone entering the workforce for the first time - start KiwiSaver contributions at 8% from day one.  If you f*ck up everything else in your life, you will still be in a great position at 65.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with evidence.  I would go further and say that a new graduate starting work with an interest free student loan should NOT pay it off quicker.</p>
<p>Instead they should set KiwiSaver contributions at 8% from their first payday.  They haven&#8217;t earned any money to date, so they won&#8217;t miss them.  On top they get 2% from the employer and $1,040 from govt each year.  Over a 40 year working life, this is the best thing they can do.  Get used to not having 8%.</p>
<p>On top of that they can withdraw contributions after 3 years to buy a house, plus get an extra $3,000-$5,000 from the first home subsidy.  If they are really smart and found their longterm partner, they can buy the house together and he/she can do the same thing &#8211; effectively double their deposit.</p>
<p>Bottom line for any new graduate, or anyone entering the workforce for the first time &#8211; start KiwiSaver contributions at 8% from day one.  If you f*ck up everything else in your life, you will still be in a great position at 65.</p>
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		<title>By: BeShakey</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-130957</link>
		<dc:creator>BeShakey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-130957</guid>
		<description>&quot;What might happen if interest becomes retrospective?&quot;

If I was you I wouldn&#039;t worry too much about that, this will be controversial enough without making it retrospective.

In response to Tom M - I agree with you that, as a rule of thumb, education leads to better paying jobs, and that as such it makes sense for students to make a contribution towards their education.  In fact thats what happens now.  In the past tertiary education was virtually fully funded, now students pay a large amount of money towards their education.  The question of whether they should pay interest on that is therefore about whether student loans should operate on a more commercial basis or whether the government should provide some support in that area as well as in more general tertiary funding.  Given the huge issues with the size of student loans it makes sense for the Government ot limit their impact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What might happen if interest becomes retrospective?&#8221;</p>
<p>If I was you I wouldn&#8217;t worry too much about that, this will be controversial enough without making it retrospective.</p>
<p>In response to Tom M &#8211; I agree with you that, as a rule of thumb, education leads to better paying jobs, and that as such it makes sense for students to make a contribution towards their education.  In fact thats what happens now.  In the past tertiary education was virtually fully funded, now students pay a large amount of money towards their education.  The question of whether they should pay interest on that is therefore about whether student loans should operate on a more commercial basis or whether the government should provide some support in that area as well as in more general tertiary funding.  Given the huge issues with the size of student loans it makes sense for the Government ot limit their impact.</p>
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		<title>By: senzafine</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-130956</link>
		<dc:creator>senzafine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-130956</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;lots of people go to uni or polytec, rack up a student loan and drop-out without completing their degree&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Like me. But surely it makes good sense to crate an incentive for people to actually use the loan system the way it was designed?

Personally, I&#039;d like to see policy introduced that if you take out a loan and &#039;drop out&#039; then market interest rates apply immediately upon doing so.

The whole idea of the loan system was to help people get educated, and not to fund questionable lifestyle choices.

I&#039;ll be using this policy, and as a result my Loan will be paid off in the next 12 months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>lots of people go to uni or polytec, rack up a student loan and drop-out without completing their degree</p></blockquote>
<p>Like me. But surely it makes good sense to crate an incentive for people to actually use the loan system the way it was designed?</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;d like to see policy introduced that if you take out a loan and &#8216;drop out&#8217; then market interest rates apply immediately upon doing so.</p>
<p>The whole idea of the loan system was to help people get educated, and not to fund questionable lifestyle choices.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be using this policy, and as a result my Loan will be paid off in the next 12 months.</p>
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		<title>By: mathemagician</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bait-and-switch-2/comment-page-1/#comment-130955</link>
		<dc:creator>mathemagician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=12580#comment-130955</guid>
		<description>I assumed one year lump sums for simplicity because otherwise most people come look at the numbers and think they&#039;re wrong. Turns out I just got shown up by you instead, Pat. cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assumed one year lump sums for simplicity because otherwise most people come look at the numbers and think they&#8217;re wrong. Turns out I just got shown up by you instead, Pat. cheers.</p>
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