Written By: - Date published: 6:17 pm, May 20th, 2008 - 92 comments
Categories: labour, Media -
Tags: alt tv, beat-up, phil goff
Well, I’ve seen the video of Goff on Alt TV and I really can’t see what all the fuss is about. Phil Goff’s stated the obvious by saying there’s a chance Labour could lose the next election, he’s reaffirmed his support for Helen Clark and hinted that if the leadership were open after the election he’d consider it.
As No Right Turn observes, only in the warped worldview of the Wellington political elite would the idea of Goff making an honest appraisal of his party’s future and his own be a considered a sign of weakness, or a “gaffe.”
To them, it’s all about “the game”. And as a result, they not only ignore the substance of politics – you know, the policies the parties are offering and the public is choosing between – but also create a place where ethics are the complete inversion of the real world: where deceit is a virtue, having no policies is inconsequential, honesty is a weakness, and acknowledging reality is a sin.
The whole thing strikes me as a beat-up.
UPDATE: Over at TVNZ Guyon Espiner is outraged that Phil Goff isn’t “on-message” and demands he gets his lines in order. Because that’s, like, what our media is for isn’t it?
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Scoopit!
And even better, it appears Joyce preferred my spelling:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Citations:ballocks
Billy,
Yes I’ve long harboured fantasies of launching a nicely pitched “Bollocks!” from the mid-back row of a meeting where some high functioning psychopath in a suit has been dishing out the usual evasive sharp business talk crap, dressed up with rubbish PC phrases like “looking forward”.
As you say it has a flinty clothcap ring about it, and properly timed would let the air out of even the most overinflated prat.
And Ak, did you notice ‘sod started a sentence with a conjunction? Told ya.
Billy – bollocks.
You need this RL:
http://www.tysknews.com/LiteStuff/bingo.htm
Oh and Joyce is perhaps the most overrated hack in the history of literature. I mean “ineluctable modality of being”, “the cracked looking-glass of a maid” as a metaphor for Ireland, the whole of the Ithaca chapter??? Puh-lease.
Too far, ‘sod. Too far. You’re dead to me.
Well done r0b. I don’t know if you are right or wrong, but at least your assessment is honest.
Again, there is a smell of desperation here. Over 50% of NZer’s are against labour, but apparently they are all misguided. A cabinet minster puts the leadership in play, but apparently it’s a media beat up. The refusal to acknowledge the genuine concerns of New Zealanders (not Labour party voters but New Zealanders), is at the core of Labour’s current problems
Back to the house boys! The Zulus are coming. But the thin red line will see them off!
(Talk about a siege mentality … and who wins elections with a siege mentality?)
mmm thinks>
Blog Bingo!
Has potential but perhaps our dear sysop might not be pleased at the sight of his nice tidy logs peppered all over with “Ballocks!!”.
Over 50% of NZer’s are against labour, but apparently they are all misguided.
But what are they FOR? Tax cuts and the right to hit their children in private apparently. Just today a colleague was crowing about the $50pw tax cut he fully expects to get…oblivious to the fact that on his income he’d be lucky to see a $15pw reduction. I didn’t have the heart to disillusion him…
captcha “briefings Hereford”
Ha.. reminds me of a very famous cartoon from the Muldoon era (probably Tom Scott), that had the punchline “Romney or Perendale?”.
rOb
The gaffe is obvious. He knows the media is always looking for the next mini scandal. Why would you provide them with one.
The only thing coming out of Labours mouth should be positive news. They should only be talking about winning and their 4th term under Clark.
Any hypotheticals about loosing should be ignored as it turns into this media circus in budget week.
This was a major gaffe from a senior MP.
They should only be talking about winning and their 4th term under Clark.
And if they only ever do that, then you label them arrogant and “out of touch”. It’s a game.
Gaffe? Nah… you’ve been suckered by the most basic propaganda trick.
Again, there is a smell of desperation here.
Yes there is, it’s emanating from those desperately trying to whip up a gallon of leadership challenge from a teaspoon of speculation.
Over 50% of NZer’s are against labour, but apparently they are all misguided.
Ah – sez who?
A cabinet minster puts the leadership in play, but apparently it’s a media beat up.
A cabinet minister answers a question in an interview, and it’s a National Party beat up. The media beat up (bless them – you know who you are!) will come tomorrow.
The refusal to acknowledge the genuine concerns of New Zealanders (not Labour party voters but New Zealanders), is at the core of Labour’s current problems
So Working for Families, planned tax cuts, delays in emissions trading, moves on housing afforability, all refusal to acknowledge the concerns of Kiwis? Milo, every word that comes out of your mouth in this post is spin. Did you get dizzy writing it?
r0b, they only acknowledge the concerns of New Zealanders if you accept that Labour knows best. They give what labour is willing to give, not what many New Zealanders’ actually want.
Who knows, maybe the government does know best. Certainly, that’s what King Charles I thought, and King John, and Louis XVI.
But “trust us … we know best” just isn’t a very good election slogan.
r0b, they only acknowledge the concerns of New Zealanders if you accept that Labour knows best.
OK so the “media gaffe” balloon has gone flat. Quick… flick back to the arrogant Labour, “We know best” meme.
Sighs.
RedLogix: eh? I don’t understand your point.
r0b, they only acknowledge the concerns of New Zealanders if you accept that Labour knows best.
So you have to sign a loyalty pledge to get your tax cut? I don’t think so Milo. You go so far as to accuse this government of being “extremely anti-intellectual”, so I think it’s pretty safe to say that you aren’t actually willing or able to think clearly about them.
But “trust us we know best’ just isn’t a very good election slogan
I quite agree, but given the absence of policies (other than Labour Lite) it does seem to be National’s stance.
Milo,
It’s a media game. If the polly gives a straight answer, then it’s fodder to be twisted into a beatup. If they avoid it, then they get portrayed as evasive, arrogant and out of touch.
The “we know best” meme that you used is straight out of that playbook.
RedLogix, r0b, listen to yourselves. It sounds like you think everybody is the enemy. Or they’re all misguided. Or some combination of the two.
WAKE UP !!!
(Or alternatively, go to bed)
Phil Goff saying he’s not going to depose Helen being interpretted as a leadership challenge: The ultimate storm in the media’s teacup!
Seriously, this is high-class comedy. We should splice together videos of the commentary with what Goff actually said and sell it.
I agree with the title of this post. It is a simple beatup. Do the media think we are idiots?
Of course when Helen decides to step down, then Phil will throw his hat into the ring. But it will be when she decides to step down.
Whats the bet that when the nats lose an election that there will be people throwing their hat into the ring to replace Key. It is a 100% based on past performance. Typically it will be prefaced with a lot of hidden circling to get behind peoples backs.
Labour doesn’t have quite that same level of knife in the back stupidity. Helen lost the election in 1996 (well sort of – NZF picked the wrong partner), and wasn’t rolled. Bill Rowling lost a couple of elections before losing the leadership.
When was the last time that a leader of the National Party managed to lose and election without getting knifed in the back.
Whoever raised this should have a profile done on them – in category ‘fuckwits’.
Oh come on, lets be real Hulun is dog tucker and Goff is the only credible politician of experience who isnt one of Huluns lapdogs – of course he’s going to roll the old trout.
When does Hulun start talkback on 95-bfm? Her and fat boy Havok are a couple made in heaven.
[lprent: expat - to me mangling names is the action of a schoolyard idiot. It is a key indicator of a troll. Especially when they spread it over threads. Use your brain otherwise if you continue to act like a troll then I'll boot you.]
Milo,
Take a long hard look at this agitprop from Stuff this morning:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4554949a10.html
Headline:
Goff drops leadership denials
Intro Para:
Helen Clark’s heir apparent, Phil Goff, appears to be positioning himself for a leadership tilt if Labour loses the election, dropping his previous denials that he had ambitions for the job.
Actual Quote:
“There is no question about leadership at the moment. There is 100 per cent support for Helen Clark and I have been 100 per cent in support of her right through this term of office … The question about leadership will take place at the point in the future when Helen Clark feels that she is going to move on to something else. That point has not yet arisen. We are not looking at losing the election, we are looking at fighting through to the election with a good chance of winning that election.”
This is a classic example of propaganda. The headline is 180deg opposite to what Goff is actually saying. The real PURPOSE of this story is for the headline to create an entirely false, but seductive hook and premise that Goff is about to challenge Clark, and then subsequently to make Goff look untrustworthy by having his actual words say the exact opposite.
The trick works because the mind tends to give most credibility to information received first and given the highest prominence. A reasonable, but naive person reading the story tends to accept the headline and intro (that were entirely made up by the sub-editors) as the truthful template for the story, and if they DO read further down to Goff’s actual quotes, the dissonance effectively sticks to what Goff has said. (There are other linguistic tricks at work here but I don’t have the time to draw them out right now.)
It’s a close cousin of the dogwhistle, ie the article is defendable on a rational level, but it’s real purpose is a smear coded up in the structure and use of language. It’s not news, it’s not journalism… it’s an agenda dressed up as such.
Oh come on Red- be a grown up; Goff is signalling a transition process is in place. Its done to give some hope to the plebs who will otherwise abandon labour for family first or the greens. Its meant to signal hope to the faithful.
Oh come on Red- be a grown up
This from someone who still cannot spell Helen Clark’s name correctly?
Its done to give some hope to the plebs who will otherwise abandon labour for family first of the greens
Then why Alt-TV, where it lay almost ignored for several days until the jackals swooped on it? If it was an intentional signal, why use such an obscure channel to do so? Not convincing.
Its a word play on Huluns gutatural vowles Red.
By leaking the play into the press Goff can deny any intention to offend. Its called realpolitik.
Goffs signalling that Hulun has no support and the most senior member of the party is walking her out the door.
hmmmm, you guys can defend this till you are blue in the face, but, its is now out in the real world, not played nicely in the blogs or in the beltway, the perception that Goff thinks Labour will loose and HC will be rolled by Goff. The geenie is out of the bottle and you can’t put it back inside. While in may be a media beat up, people, yup, real people will now begin talking about the last days of HC, labour loosing and being replaced by Goff.
SD: I realize that you’re probably young and can’t remember last week. But on average this kind of speculation arises at least once per year.
I remember this happening for national every other week. The only real problem is that the national party has kind of run out of potential leaders. Their talent pool is shallow, and they’ve used up most of the potential in failed elections already.
Helen will leave when she feels like it.
red: He is an obvious illiterate – they can’t even spell ‘vowels’.
Word plays on people’s names is something you are supposed to grow out of in the fifth form.
Their talent pool is shallow
Looking at their front two benches, I reckon it could do with a spot of clhorine.
SD, a few days ago I put up a thread asking why people would vote for National. There were very few solid answers. Now this pathetic beat up. I would suggest that if you don’t know why you want a National government and the best you can do is gleefully celebrate the fact a beat-up will harm perception (exclusive of fact) then you should probably ask yourself what the point of democracy is at all.
AncientGeek, I realize you are probably old and have trouble remembering yesterday, but this is an actual challenge on HC, and as she said in the house yesterday, has been the labour party leader for over coming on 15 years. To have someone mounting a challenge on her, and to have that taken up in the wider press is big news, when, in all reality, labour have very few if any other credible leadership contenders. HC/Labour have lost the support of the people, the media and now senior labour party members are making public noises.
Like I said, the geenie is out on the bottle on this one, correct perception or not. People are talking, and perception has a way of becoming reality.
PS, you have no idea how old I am.
W. E. M. L is the correct response to you AG.
[lprent: whatever that means. Since expat obviously hasn't read my previous warnings. I'll put expat into moderation]
Hey guys – lets keep to the topic – Goff rolling Clark because she IS an electoral liability now.
Face up to the facts and stop the character assasinations. This site is supposed to be about debate not abuse yes? And try to focus on the issues not the spullin and grama yeah?
Okay, IrishBill, I don’t think I was being gleeful, just pointing out this is the first cedible challenge to HC is a very very very long time. That is what makes it big news. Second, this is more than some inner Wellington talk, but front page news. That is what makes it the more important and puts the question of HC’s leadership in everyday conversation amongst the peeps.
As I said, beatup or not, it is now out there.
If you want to go back to your thread on why people vote for national we can talk about that there, I thought this tread was on the Goff story?