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Being fired for union membership is disgraceful

Written By: - Date published: 3:37 pm, December 10th, 2012 - 204 comments
Categories: Unions - Tags: ,

CTU response to the appalling story here. (also NRT)

CTU Media Release

10 December 2012

Being fired for union membership is disgraceful

The story today that Vice President of Equity Todd Rippon was dismissed by a Lord of the Rings tour guide for being a union official in the union Actors Equity, is something the Prime Minister, including in his capacity as Tourism Minister, needs to take responsibility for, CTU President Helen Kelly said.

“Not only has John Key personally made it clear to employers in the entertainment industry that the Government will back them to undermine the rights of workers to join unions but he and his Ministers have made such derogatory and misleading statements about this union in particular, that the industry and those associated with it, appear to feel free to bully anyone that has a different point of view.”

Helen Kelly, CTU President says that losing your job for being a union member is illegal and unfair, and she is deeply concerned at the involvement of Positively Wellington in the process.

“The Prime Minister as Minister of Tourism needs to investigate this and assure New Zealand workers that he does not support this type of discrimination in the industry and contrary to this employers view, his Department will act fairly in relation to its procurement and not discriminate against companies that have union officials on their staff.”

Helen Kelly said “no union member should be persecuted for belonging to a union and we are supporting Todd, alongside Actors Equity, in taking this personal grievance.  What happened to Todd is very unfair and could have an alarming effect on any performer or other worker that is considering taking a role in this, or any other union, unless the Government takes a stand. We want this matter resolved fairly.”

204 comments on “Being fired for union membership is disgraceful”

  1. Being fired is disgraceful.

    So is being physically threatened for not wanting to join a union.

    • framu 1.1

      WTF are you on about brett?

      • QoTViper 1.1.1

        Allow me to run the Brett translator: “Unions may also have done bad things which exist entirely in my head, and which don’t actually relate to the current story, but I’m going to bring them up anyway and then vociferiously deny that I’m downplaying illegal activity as long as it’s against unions. Which is exactly what I’m doing.”

    • Bill 1.2

      Brett. Have you ever attempted any union recruitment? I’m guessing you haven’t. I have. And I was quite good at it. And never bullied or threatened any worker I approached. But here’s the thing. I can give you a string of incidents where I was the one being bullied, harassed and/or assaulted by (variously) non-union workers, bosses and privately hired security guards.

    • geoff 1.3

      Fuck you’re pathetic Brett

      [lprent: That was a pointless abuse comment. Read the policy. Don't repeat the practice - always say why you think something. ]

  2. I find it strange that the unions try to take the moral high ground, but have a history of violence and intimidation against those who dont want to join.

    • One Tāne Viper 2.1

      I find it tedious and somewhat pathetic that right-wingers think anyone here believes a single word they say without independent corroboration.

      To put it another way, citation needed.

      To put it another way, hi, I’m the third Billy Goat Gruff. What’s it like under that bridge?

    • Richard Down South 2.2

      Yeah sucks that unions have a history of violence… lets ban unions… oh wait… but then so does the police (not often, but it happens) and oh look, most organised religions, and in fact, the human race…

    • framu 2.3

      you dont find it strange at all

      i reckon its just another convenient strawman of your own creation, for you to get all “high horse” about whatever your fevered imagination thinks is reality

    • Draco T Bastard 2.4

      Not as much history of violence as the government and business.

    • Daveosaurus 2.5

      [[ citation needed ]]

  3. One Tāne Viper 3

    “We want this matter resolved fairly.”

    What would be a fair resolution, a measured response to this assault? The deliberate attack on a person’s ability to earn a living, the threat of financial ruin.

    The wider assault upon all working New Zealanders, the deliberate intimidation of the entire workforce.

    What’s the law on self-defence again?

  4. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 4

    It’s the Prime Minister’s fault. Course. Obvious when you think about it.

    • One Tāne Viper 4.1

      Do you support freedom of speech and association or not?

      • HS ChannelingClareCurran 4.1.1

        No.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 4.1.1.1

          Do you support freedom of speech and association or not?

          I do. I just was not aware that the PM had personal responsibility for every breach of every law in New Zealand. I accept I must be wrong about that. Otherwise, you know, what’s he for?

          • One Tāne Viper 4.1.1.1.1

            Well then, it’s a good thing the media release makes no such accusations, instead concentrating on specific examples of the low life’s betrayal of New Zealanders.

      • TheContrarian 4.1.2

        What always bothered me was the same people that talk about ‘freedom of speech and association’ were so anti the VSM bill.

        • McFliper 4.1.2.1

          Well, many students are no longer free to join an advocacy group that isn’t being fed from the university, tit like the ones down here. It’s like going to see the company doctor about workplace health problems. No more impartial representative organisations.
                
          The VSM bill was anti-freedom of association.

          • TheContrarian 4.1.2.1.1

            “The VSM bill was anti-freedom of association.”

            Being able to choose whether or not to join a student union is anti-freedom? Wow.

            (But this is getting off topic now)

            • McFlock 4.1.2.1.1.1

              There was always choice. It was just a question of what the default starting position was.

              • TheContrarian

                I didn’t have a choice. I was an extramural student, never set foot on campus except for exams doing one paper per semester because I had a busy full-job. Because I didn’t qualify for any type of loan I paid my fee’s upfront and having an extra $100.00 or so added for a service I never used as part of an organisation I had no dealings with nor had any desire to have any dealings with didn’t seem at all fair – particularly because I didn’t always agree with the unions politics so why should I be compelled to give support to it. I had no choice in the matter.

                That isn’t freedom of association

                • McFliper

                  Who forced you to study at that institution? What were the policies of your students’ association on conscientious objection? Why didn’t the VSM bill streamline conscientious objectors, rather than making the default position “non-membership”?
                         
                  trool 

                  • TheContrarian

                    “Who forced you to study at that institution

                    At the time (And I still think this is the case) Massey was only one institution that provided extramural political science. Is it fair to suggest that if I have a problem with it then tough luck, you either join or don’t study?

                    I couldn’t get my money back and why should I have to object, withhold funds, potentially forfeit my place in the semester and go through an objection when I am not even part of campus? Also, when I did draw a student loan I didn’t even have the option to withhold payment – comes right out on its own and I have no say.

                    No matter how you swing it, compulsory unionism is against ones freedom to associate – it is compulsory association.

                    Other unions were voluntary (I worked in public service for many years and never once joined the PSA nor did I join the Police Association when I worked in PNHQ for a spell).

                    disclaimer: I have no beef with unions themselves. Go for your life I say.

                    • felixviper

                      Out of curiosity, how did you manage to avoid using the services of the PSA for “many years? For example, how did you avoid the pay-rises?

                    • McFliper

                      So you wanted to go do a particular course and joining the association was part of that.
                           
                      Now if I want to do a particular course at an institution that suits me, I can’t join an independent student advocacy organisation. Your “freedom of association” fucks mine.  Thanks for that. Oh, and the levies are still charged – just by the university rather than the association. You love to whine about unrefundable, non-optional levies, don’t you?
                         
                      But because it suits you it’s the clear moral good. Just another tory…

                    • TheContrarian

                      Freedom to associate means the freedom to join, or not join, the organisation of your choice.

                    • McFliper

                      Absence of choice is absence of freedom.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  having an extra $100.00 or so added for a service I never used

                  Actually, you probably did but you just never realised it. Like many such organisations they perform services that are essentially invisible (ones that are necessary but not actively used) until they’re taken away.

                  • TheContrarian

                    The only difference I noticed in withdrawing from the union was I no longer got the magazine.

                • karol

                   an extra $100.00 or so added for a service I never used as part of an organisation I had no dealings with

                  Sometimes I feel that way about paying my annual insurance premiums.  But the one or two occasions I’ve made a claim, I’ve been glad it’s there.  The worst part of insurance is that the company’s profits go to enrich someone.

                  The difference from a Union is that, it doesn’t profiteer for the benefit of an elite group.  And, I am happy with the conditions the union negotiates for all of us.

                  I’m also happy that a union supports members like Todd Rippon….. the collective logic means, that it isn’t just a case of, “Today they came for Todd….”  the union’s support of one member in such issues, benefits all members.

                  • TheContrarian

                    Nonetheless, no matter how good or not a union is freedom of association means the freedom to join, or not join, a union.
                    Compulsory union membership is not freedom to associate.

                    • McFliper

                      Funnily enough, it wasn’t “compulsory” to join if you weren’t a student at the relevant institution.
                               
                      You were free to go somewhere else. But that extramural option was more convenient for you.
                             
                      Guess what: inconvenience does not equal compulsion. 

                    • TheContrarian

                      So I must quit my job and possibly move to another city in order to find a university where they had voluntary membership with a high likely hood of not finding any programme anywhere where membership wasn’t a requirement? Or else just don’t study at all.
                      Yeah that’s fair.

                    • vto viped

                      There is no choice in;

                      having to pay income tax if you choose to earn an income.
                      having to pay GST if you buy a banana.
                      having to pay rates and receive Council services if you choose to buy a property
                      having to keep quiet after 11pm if you choose to live around others.
                      having to drive at 100kmh if you choose to buy a ferrari
                      having to pay an EQC levy if you choose to insure your house (f#%*ing eqc…)
                      having to register or login if you want to participate in countless blogospehrics

                      I’m sure you get the idea of the principle at play behind these and countless other compulsory requirements that are tagged onto various so-called choices.

                      Have a look at that principle and think about how it applies in the bigger picture of creating an ordered and functioning society

                      simplistic views are just that

                    • McFliper

                      More fair than denying the possibility of joining an independent students’ association to every other student at the institution.Thanks for that, you selfish jerk.
                             
                      God forbid that anyone has to move town, quit their job to study, or be otherwised inconvenienced to get the education option they want – the university of Otago should have a campus in every small town! What the fuck are you, twelve years old?
                               
                      The only reason the government stepped in was because at most institutions, more students wanted independent associations than did not. The government (well, ACT and the young nats) decided to remove freedom of association for the majority just because the minority didn’t want to be inconvenienced. 
                           

                           
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      NZ Bill of Rights, Section 17:
                      “Everyone has the right to freedom of association.”

                      “A person’s decision to join or refrain from joining an organistion should be free from compulsion, intimidation, coercion, incentives or disincentives of a magnitude that effectively removes the exercise of choice.”

                      http://www.justice.govt.nz/publications/global-publications/t/the-guidelines-on-the-new-zealand-bill-of-rights-act-1990-a-guide-to-the-rights-and-freedoms-in-the-bill-of-rights-act-for-the-public-sector/section-16-freedom-of-peaceful-assembly#section17

                      A union is an association of people that under the Bill of Rights I should have the freedom to associate in a voluntary manner.

                      “More fair than denying the possibility of joining an independent students’ association to every other student at the institution.Thanks for that, you selfish jerk”
                      No-one is denied anything – membership is voluntary.

                      “decided to remove freedom of association for the majority just because the minority didn’t want to be inconvenienced.”

                      Care to identify which freedoms have been removed?

                    • McFliper

                      8 universities in NZ.
                           
                      Prior to the VSM bill, ISTR 2 of them were already “voluntary”.
                           
                      Not including conscientious objection clauses.
                                
                      Wanting to study at a particular institution is not exactly “of a magnitude that effectively removes the exercise of choice”. You had a choice. Hell, I don’t like lectures at a particular time of the day, but I bite that bullet as a cost of getting the degree. I don’t scream “oppression” about it.
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      Everyone, as per the Bill of Rights, has the right to join or not join an association free from compulsion. That includes the PSA, Student Unions, the cub scouts and political parties.

                      So can you now identify which freedoms have been removed?

                    • McFliper

                      I can’t join it if it doesn’t exist.
                           
                      And you were free to not join it in the first place. 

                    • TheContrarian

                      So which freedoms do you not have now?

                      “And you were free to not join it in the first place. ”
                      Yeah, but I still had to give them money.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      No you didn’t have to give them money. You could have refused to join on conscience grounds and you would not have had to pay. Students have now the lost the ‘right’ to an effective Student Organisation on all campuses as a result of a tiny minority of students being too lazy to put in those applications.

                    • McFliper

                      So which freedoms do you not have now?

                      I can’t join an independent students’ association. It no longer exists.
                       

                      And you were free to not join it in the first place.” 
                      Yeah, but I still had to give them money

                      Donate it to charity, if it was like Otago. And besides, at many unis now you still pay a compulsory levy for services that the university then contracts the association to provide. You’d still pay money studying today, but now you have no say in how it’s spent. Good score. You were on a better run squealing “oppression!”
                      Not that you were getting anywhere with that.
                           
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      “I can’t join an independent students’ association. It no longer exists.”

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_tertiary_students%27_associations

                      Quite a few student associations you can join eh? You have freedom to join or not join any number of these unions without having to force others to do so. Freedom for you and for me.

                      I haven’t screamed oppression. I didn’t want to be in the Student Union and now I don’t have to but have the choice to join in future if I want to.

                      “No you didn’t have to give them money.”

                      Why should I have to object, withhold funds, potentially forfeit my place in the semester and go through an objection when I am not even part of campus as an extramural student? Also, when I did draw a student loan I didn’t even have the option to withhold payment – comes right out on its own and I have no say.

                      But it’s all a moot point:

                      NZ Bill of Rights, Section 17:
                      “Everyone has the right to freedom of association.”

                      “A person’s decision to join or refrain from joining an organistion should be free from compulsion, intimidation, coercion, incentives or disincentives of a magnitude that effectively removes the exercise of choice.”

                    • McFliper

                      Quite a few student associations you can join eh?

                       How many of them are funded independently of their tertiary institution?
                      You had the option of objecting to membership of an independent and democratic students’ association. That would have been a moronic option, but you were free to choose it. You were never forced to join any particular association. I’ve gone my entire life without joining almost all of them, for example.
                          
                      Now my association is no longer independent. An independent advocacy association no longer exists, probably in NZ but definitely at my uni.

                            

                      Why should I have to object, withhold funds, potentially forfeit my place in the semester and go through an objection when I am not even part of campus as an extramural student? Also, when I did draw a student loan I didn’t even have the option to withhold payment – comes right out on its own and I have no say.

                      Oh, let’s see: because you wanted a degree from that university. And like other costs of going to that university, it was a necessary expense. But better than, say, a recreation levy, because the amount and necessity was democratically decided by students, not the university council. Which is now a compulsory levy from the university that then pays the association a contract for service. Same number of bands at orientation, but you’d better not have a major issue with a paper because the advocate is now a company doctor.

                             
                      Total freedoms “gained”: -1. Thanks for that. 
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      I’m sorry you find freedom of association under the NZ Bill of Rights to be so hard on you.

                      I can only imagine how you must feel to know that people can choose not to be part of a union.

                    • McFliper

                      Now you’re being intentionally obtuse.
                      You could always choose not to be part of the union.
                      Now there is no independent association for me to join. I am NOT free to join an association, because an independent association no longer exists.
                             
                      You are continuing the perverting of the BORA to impose your will on others. Literally, because ACT amended the BORA rather than the Education Act. 
                           
                       

                    • vto viped

                      I think I’m convinced on all this freedom of association…

                      I would like to get a degree next year. Anyone know of where that can be done without being compulsorily required to join a university?

                    • TheContrarian

                      there, there.

                    • McFliper

                      fuck you’re a tool.
                           
                      You claim it’s your right to shit in the pool because it’s too inconvenient to get out and go to the lavatory, and when someone else points out the repercussions for other people, you go “there there”.
                           
                      Tosser.

                    • TheContrarian

                      I am sorry you dislike Article 17 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights.

                      I mean, after all, making me pay for a union I don’t support, who’s politics I don’t support (for the most part) is the key to freedom.

                    • TheContrarian

                      “Now there is no independent association for me to join. I am NOT free to join an association, because an independent association no longer exists.”

                      Here’s one and, as you have already said, you have the choice to join.

                      http://exmss.org/

                      Oh look, here is another:
                      http://www.vuwsa.org.nz/support/advocacy-and-advice/

                      And another
                      http://www.musa.org.nz/

                      So, which freedoms have you lost again?

                    • McFliper

                      How are they funded? THEN we’ll see how “independent” they are…

                      Oh, and nobody “made” you join a students’ association. Stop lying.

                    • TheContrarian

                      So, which freedoms have you lost again?

                      “nobody “made” you join a students’ association.”

                      True, all they did was auto-enrolled me, took my money and wouldn’t give it back.

                    • McFliper

                       here  and here and here

                    • TheContrarian

                      So you can’t join those independent unions because they don’t exist despite several of them existing?

                      oh here’s another:
                      http://www.whitireia.ac.nz/student_services/Pages/WhitireiaIndependentStudentsAssociation.aspx

                      Oh look! and more:
                      http://www.mawsa.org.nz/
                      “Massey Wellington Students’ Association (MAWSA) is student-run, student-focused and funded by student money. All enrolled students at Massey Wellington are members of MAWSA.”

                    • McFliper

                      here and “All enrolled students at Massey Wellington are members of MAWSA.”
                       

                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      Nonetheless independent unions exist.

                      But again, I am sorry the freedom to associate, or not associate, is hard on you. Really, I am sorry.

                      And you do realise this also means that if a union started moving to the far-right an embracing things you don’t agree with you don’t have to support it financially or otherwise?

                    • McFliper

                      If a truly independent student association exists, it’s an endangered species. Whereas you were free to object to membership of whichever students’ association applied to whichever institution you studied at. The financial argument is bullshit, seeing most of the services have been taken over (well, plus a conflict of interest) by the institutions themselves.
                              
                      Your “lack of freedom” consisted of “you were too lazy to bother filling in the forms, and it might have taken a while”.
                              
                      My lack of freedom consists of “if I have perfect information, I might be able to find a students’ association that does not have a clear conflict of interest should I require advocacy against the institution – and there’s sure not one that can help me in the majority of institutions around the country”. 
                               
                      I just hope you meet someone who is as concerned for your freedom as you tory fucks were for mine. I really do.

                    • TheContrarian

                      You haven’t lost any freedoms.

                      Even if I opted out they still took my money. Woo Freedom! Freedom to give financial support to an organisation that doesn’t represent me and that a I rarely agreed with!

                      “there’s sure not one that can help me in the majority of institutions around the country”.
                      Hey, you could just move and find one? Isn’t that what you suggested I do? I mean God forbid that anyone has to move town, quit their job to study, or be otherwised inconvenienced to get the education option they want.

                    • McFliper

                      Well, my local advocate now has an incentive to cover up problems I might have rather than address them, given that he’s paid at the will of the the university. 
                             
                      And now the university takes the same amount or more money as a service charge. Woohoo! big difference. 

                    • TheContrarian

                      Well I am going out now anyway so I’ll leave you with

                      NZ Bill of Rights, Section 17:
                      “Everyone has the right to freedom of association.”

                      “A person’s decision to join or refrain from joining an organistion should be free from compulsion, intimidation, coercion, incentives or disincentives of a magnitude that effectively removes the exercise of choice.”

                    • McFliper

                      Yeah. Roger Douglas was a real Nelson Mandela.

                    • TheContrarian

                      Yeah fuck Douglas and the freedom of association as enshrined in Article 20 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

                      http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a20

                    • McFliper

                      Yeah. Having to fill in a CO form was suuuuch compulsion.

                      edit: argh fuck it this has gone on long enough and is now a broken record. Has been for ages. If you’re such a fucking moron you don’t get it by now, you’d be illiterate. You’re not illiterate, so you’re just a fuckwit.

                      another edit: actually, could a moderator shift this derail to open mike or something. Sorry I got dragged in.

                    • TheContrarian

                      “Yeah. Having to fill in a CO form was suuuuch compulsion.”

                      yeah but they still took the money…

                      I am sorry the freedom of association causes you such consternation McFlock. Really. I am also sorry your reaction always ends in personal insults towards others.

                      Oh well, we gotta use what we have, eh? When you don’t have a leg to stand on, insult your opponent. You may not win but at least you’ll feel like a big winner.

                    • McFliper

                      When exactly the same comments are repeated three times after it’s pointed out that, e.g., you still lose the money under the new regime, all that’s left is insult.
                         
                      You could have addressed the counterpoint, but no, you repeat the previous line like a dim-witted parrot. So you’re not interested in debate. And foolish me for falling for it yet again. Which is your objective, you trool.
                         

                            

                    • TheContrarian

                      You are full of shit McFlock because since leaving the union my study costs went down. My money is no longer going to an association which I have fundamental disagreements with. THAT is the difference and THAT is against my right to freedom of association. It isn’t about cost – it’s about funding an association which you do not want to associate with.

                      In McFlocks world I should be auto-enrolled and if I don’t like it I have to go to a protracted withdrawal from the association which keeps my money anyway and if i don’t like it then, tough, go to another university.

                      In my world when signing up for university there should be a tick-box “Do you wish to join the Student union: Yes/No”.

                      Freedom of association buddy. Calling me names and a trool is just your way of discrediting opposing opinion. A cheap trick from a cheap man

                    • McFliper

                      whatever, moron.
                               
                      At otago, the costs went up, only this time it’s a service levy from the uni. And because the association is dependent on uni funding, it is not an independent advocate.
                           
                      Freedom of association also means freedom to join. You can’t join an independent organisation if it doesn’t exist.   
                           
                      But of course we’ve been through this repeatedly, but you can’t face the fact that you and your comrades aren’t noble defenders of freedom, you’re just selfish, small-minded toryboys who despise democracy when it returns a decision you don’t like. Cut&pasting dogmatically doesn’t change that. The paperwork was too hard for you to deal with, and your obsession with money just kept you awake at night. 
                          
                      In your world you like to freeload off the gains made previously by association members, before self-absorbed morons like you ran to uncle roger. So yeah, I call you names. What, you want to shit in the pool and still be treated politely? Fuck you. Being called a moron is part of your choice to behave like a moron, just like joining an association was part of your choice to go to that institution. But the government can’t step in and change the law to enable you to behave like a moron without being called one.
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      “Freedom of association also means freedom to join. You can’t join an independent organisation if it doesn’t exist. ”

                      But some do exist. And you have the freedom to create an independent association yourself if you desire. If an organisation can only exist by forcing people to pay for it, even if they don’t want to join it then that organisation isn’t operating freely or fairly.

                      The rest of your comment is just a mess of childish
                      ad-homs. the written equivalent of foot stamping and wetting your pants.

                      In McFlocks world all arer auto-enrolled and if you don’t like it I have to go to a protracted withdrawal from the association which keeps my money anyway and if i don’t like it then, tough, go to another university.

                      In the free world when signing up for university there is a tick-box “Do you wish to join the Student union: Yes/No”.

                    • McFliper

                      And you have the freedom to create an independent association yourself if you desire.
                        
                      If an organisation can only exist by forcing people to pay for it, even if they don’t want to join it then that organisation isn’t operating freely or fairly.

                      Wow! it never rains, but it pours! Two new contributions to the thread, rather than parroting imaginary shit and unread google searches as if repetition means it’s true.
                                
                      To which I respond: signing a form was a barrier to you not joining an association, but creating a new one from scratch is a “freedom”? Do you even know how many forms are required to create a new society and operate it for a single year?
                          
                      Secondly, (under OUSA rules, anyway) the CO payment wasn’t retained by OUSA to keep it operating. The rule was that it needed to be paid to another charity.
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      “signing a form was a barrier to you not joining an association”

                      But they STILL take the money. I am STILL funding it regardless of whether I sign a form to withdraw. There is no freedom in funding an organisation you do not wish to belong and withdraw from. Even if it goes to a charity what gives the association the moral authority to take my money and give it to a charity? It has none and removes my freedoms.

                      Independent unions exist, you have the freedom to join one or create one. I have the freedom to not join and not fund one.

                      once again:
                      If an organisation can only exist by forcing people to pay for it, even if they don’t want to join it then that organisation isn’t operating freely or fairly.

                      In McFlocks world all are auto-enrolled and if you don’t like it I have to go to a protracted withdrawal from the association which keeps the money anyway (or gives it to a charity without your authority) and if i don’t like it then, tough, go to another university or don’t attend university

                      In the free world when signing up for university there is a tick-box “Do you wish to join the Student union: Yes/No”.

                    • One Tāne Viper

                      Shorter Contrarian:

                      “Come and see the violence inherent in the system! I’m being oppressed!”

                    • McFliper

                      aaaaaaannnd you’re back to parroting imaginary shit.

                       oh, wait, here’s a new point buried in the crap that’s been dealt with before:
                       

                      Even if it goes to a charity what gives the association the moral authority to take my money and give it to a charity? It has none and removes my freedoms.

                      Actually, it had the moral authority of a democratic decision by everyone else on campus choosing whether they wanted to associate with freeloaders at university. That’s why ACT had to step in, remember? Students kept voting to keep their associations independent.

                      And now for the rehashed drivel.
                          

                      Independent unions exist, you have the freedom to join one or create one. I have the freedom to not join and not fund one. once again: If an organisation can only exist by forcing people to pay for it, even if they don’t want to join it then that organisation isn’t operating freely or fairly.

                      You haven’t demonstrated they exist independently with no conflict of interest caused by funding, you just googled students’ associations. lame.
                         
                      If I have the freedom to go through the process of creating an association, why is it a barrier to sign a CO form?
                         
                      People who were truly opposed to joining an association did not fund the association.
                         
                      Oh, and in the free world central government doesn’t overrule the democratic decisions of communities, be it students’ associations or Environment Canterbury.
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      To sum up:

                      Despite compulsory membership of a student union being against Article 17 of the NZ Bill of Rights and Article 20 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, McFlock believes that being auto-signed into a union that may not represent the views of the member who then has to take the time to object, still has to fund the association even if they leave the association who either keeps the money or gives it to a charity without any moral authority to do so. Even though that money may go to something the payee has political objection to, McFlock still believes this is somehow within the bounds of ‘freedom of association’.

                      McFlock also believes a free, fair student union is one that must compel people to fund it.

                      Contrarian believes freedom of association is in the choice to join the organisation itself, in line with international (and national) human rights and that no one should be compelled to join or fund a student union or charity which they disagree with.

                      In the free world people decide themselves whether to join a student association.

                    • McFliper

                      :roll: 

                    • TheContrarian

                      Glad to see you negating fundamental human rights in the name of your political positions.

                      Hugs and kisses.

                    • McFliper

                      Just expressing my contempt for your blue-tinted, self-obsessed “summary”.
                      When you look in the mirror in the morning you must see this.
                           
                      I wonder if this is more accurate. 

                    • TheContrarian

                      Sorry, which part was incorrect?

                    • McFliper

                      :roll:
                         
                      Already covered. Extensively. 
                           
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      So I haven’t accurately summed up your position?

                    • One Tāne Viper

                      :roll:

                    • McFliper

                      your “summary” of my position was simple repetition of previous blue-tinted interpretations of my position that you have made and I’ve corrected.
                           
                      Stop pretending that you wrote something new. You didn’t. Obviously we’ve exhausted your quota of thought for the day, and you’re back to parroting.
                         
                      Ah well, you got my hopes for an actual debate up again, only to dash them once more. I’m the fool again.
                         
                        
                      I miss CV!!!
                      He could hold a debate without being an unimaginative parrot and trooling fuckwit.  

                    • TheContrarian

                      I either have or have not summarised your position accurately. Which is it?

                    • McFliper

                      Already addressed. Get something new.
                           

                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      OK – Does the fact that the association decides on whether or not an objection is upheld and can reject someones application to withdraw from the associations strike you as a freedom under the freedom of association article?

                    • McFliper

                      See? With a bit of work you CAN do it!
                           
                      And actually, yes [edit: erm - "yes" as in I agree with your implied point that the answer to your q is "no". Clear as mud? Sorry.]. I do tend to agree with your new point. However, the appropriate resolution to that would be to tweak the system of requesting objection (probably a legacy of the old military CO regulations – ’twas the style of the time).
                           
                      Personally, I’d be okay with the objections being referred to the institution and rubberstamped that way, especially if benefits of association membership could also be withheld from the freeloader sorry “objector”.
                           
                      Do you follow the principle that government interference in local matters should be as small as possible? And that keystones of our democratic system should not be used as political footballs by minor parties?
                         
                      If so, was adjusting the BORA an appropriate way to resolve a procedural issue within the education act? 

                    • TheContrarian

                      “If so, was adjusting the BORA an appropriate way to resolve a procedural issue within the education act?”

                      The VSM bill, as introduced by heather Roy, was an amendment to the Education Act, not to the Bill of Rights.

                    • McFliper

                      fair call. I was getting my tory fuckwits confused. Too many assholes in the country.
                           
                      Even so, doesn’t this seem to be a bit of overkill for tweaking CO procedures? 
                            
                      Surely the reasonable response would have been to keep the democratic choice of the students as to whether they were opt-in or opt-out, just insert a paragraph to say if someone doesn’t want to be a member, they just tell the institution in opt-out campuses?
                             
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      You mean would it be easier for students, when signing up for a course, to say “Yes I do/No I do not want to be part of the student association?

                    • McFliper

                      Not quite.
                      It would need to be a clear statement of intent by the person – initials at the very least. This is still a matter of belief, not a fecking impulse choice.
                               
                      Secondly, students should be able to choose democratically what a null-statement means.
                      Opt-out means no response=membership. Opt-in means no-response = non-membership.
                             
                      Thirdly, it would cut needless bureaucracy costs to the institution to not bother with tick-boxes if it’s opt-out, (given that so few actually bleat “help help I’m being oppressed”). But then manually processing separate opt-ins from the number of students who actually do want to join an association would be even more expensive than a tickbox system, so that might be useful for opt-in.
                             
                      But, to summarise your position ( ;) ), all the government had to do was amend the process for expressing individual objection for membership to simply making the institution aware of the choice? Rather than the overkill bumf they actually passed?
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      The way I would do it is not have automatic opt-in but when you first sign up, as a first year, your enrollment pack comes with all the information you require to make an informed choice in the matter. Detailing what you get (and what you miss out on) by electing to either join (or not join) the union. The union can write it in as much compelling language as they want (outside of obvious threats and emotive/leading language).

                      If someone chooses to join – all good.
                      If not then a second letter could be sent, say mid semester, detailing the things the union has done/will do/what you missed etc etc and asking if they want to join the following semester to take advantage of membership.

                      Finally all students receive an end-of-year union report, those that want to join will be able to make that decision on an informed basis. Those that don’t, well they don’t have to.

                      That is similar to how the PSA did it when I worked in Public service

                    • McFliper

                      you do realise that almost all of the bagfulls of material handed out at orientation ends up on the footpath or in the bin pretty sharpish?
                           
                      So what do you do with the null responses?
                               
                      My position is that is someone is opposed to membership, then fine, they shouldn’t be in the association. But an awful lot of folk don’t give a shit either way, even if they’re aware of great reasons to join like “we built the year’s social programme on a non-profit basis” or “we have an independent advocate who knows the labyrinthine academic appeals process better than most lecturers”. Remember the demographic – how many people that age by insurance for their car?
                             
                      But if they don’t give a damn either way, no harm no foul. 

                    • TheContrarian

                      I’m not talking about handouts rather something the is part of the documents sent to you when you first decide to start university. As part of enrollment.

                      There wouldn’t be a null response because it would be a required field as part of completing an enrollment form.

                      In saying that, although I disagree with auto-membership without choice, if there were to be some sort of auto membership then it should come with an expiry after the first semester. You’ll receive a letter/email explaining what you have paid for and what you received and to continue with membership simply free-post the envelope or reply to the email.

                      No response = membership voided.
                      But if people never noticed or never cared they are likely to conitnue membership, particularly if it is coming out of a student loan so it isn’t like you are getting any more money back as was the case with me as I was paying cash up front.

                    • McFliper

                      Well:
                      A) you still get a load of shite in the course approval pack, because it’s one of the earliest opportunities for every other institution service to get a look in.
                       
                      B) why on earth would you make membership of an external body a mandatory field for a tertiary institution? Will it be for just one body, or every association that wants to get a foothold on that campus? 
                         
                      C) why would you arbitrarily terminate a membership based on no guidance whatsoever? At least with my plan other students get to decide which is the better option.
                           
                      You seem to be fixated on low-intensity systems that are highly inappropriate to a tertiary education environment.
                           

                    • TheContrarian

                      You seem to be saying because there is so much shit for people to read and they ignore most of it anyway (or throw it out) then they should just be signed up without their knowledge or permission.

                      C) why would you arbitrarily terminate a membership based on no guidance whatsoever? At least with my plan other students get to decide which is the better option.

                      Or the other way round then, if you wish to leave the association then the onus is on you to reply in the negative.

                    • McFliper

                      sorry, went to pub

                      You seem to be saying because there is so much shit for people to read and they ignore most of it anyway (or throw it out) then they should just be signed up without their knowledge or permission.

                      But so were you, on your one semester trial plan.
                      If people care about membership one way or t’other, their decision should be abided by. I think we agree there.
                         
                      But if they don’t care enough to tick a box, that’s a null response. Why not go by the majority decision of students in that case? Surely that’s better than a default set by central government? 

                      C) why would you arbitrarily terminate a membership based on no guidance whatsoever? At least with my plan other students get to decide
                      which is the better option.

                      Or the other way round then, if you wish to leave the association then the onus is on you to reply in the negative.

                      erm – yes. that’s the “opt-out” option mentioned earlier. 
                           
                      ps: see how we’re having a real discussion? Amazingly off-topic and suited to open mike, but at the same time it’s not just a repetition of the same circular arguments? We’re a snifter close to agreement. 
                       

                    • TheContrarian

                      I can’t keep this discussion going any longer. It’s been 48 hours and that is enough I think.

                      My belief is that people should be free to join, or not join, an association or union in line with the Bill of Rights. Membership should be as easy to join as it is to not join. If someone chooses not to join they should be free to do so without having to make a CO (because personal choice shouldn’t be reliant on the say so of others) and no money should exchange hands if someone makes that decision.

                    • McFliper

                      48 hrs is long enough?
                         
                      well if you hadn’t dicked about with pointless repetition we might have gotten somewhere in that time. Remember that for later.

                    • TheContrarian

                      How about go fuck yourself.

                      [lprent: And there was a point there somewhere about why right? Ummm. Seems like a pointless comment. ]

                    • McFliper

                      awwww, now who’s doing ad homs?

            • Matthew Whitehead 4.1.2.1.1.2

              1) Did you just attempt to derail a discussion and then complain that it’s getting off topic? LOL.

              2) I don’t mind if you don’t join, but you should still have to pay. :)

  5. There is no way unions should be banned.

    If someone wants to join a union they should be allowed too.

    Just as there is no way someone should be forced to join a union or be abused for not joining a union.

    • One Tāne Viper 5.1

      Just as you shouldn’t be abused for peddling lame right-wing bullshit. Expressions of sympathy and offers of sheltered housing would be more appropriate.

    • Go away Brett.  You keep spouting a myth without a skerrick of evidence and you are attempting to derail the thread.

      • Brett Dale 5.2.1

        Hey micky:

        Uhm i worked as a kitchenhand in the 90’s didnt join a union and a few people had some choice words for me and told me to be careful, I know what they were inferring.

        Im not trying to derail the thread.

        Im saying it works both ways, EVERYBODY should have the RIGHT to join a UNION.

        Just as EVERYBODY should have the right NOT to join a union.

        There should be NO pressure wither way.

        • higherstandard 5.2.1.1

          So you support the employee in this case ?

        • Bill 5.2.1.2

          Hey Brett, hows about a response to my comment at 1.2 instead of peppering the thread with variations of the same line?

        • McFliper 5.2.1.3

          Were you taking the conditions gained by union negotiators? Did the union collective contract become the de facto individual contract?

        • framu 5.2.1.4

          well it did take you four comments to get to any sort of debateable point brett – i mean, if it quacks like a duck.

          now that you have made a point – how is it even relevant? If your trying to say that you support the employee here, just say so! – otherwise people will think your full of it

          i also worked as a kitchen hand in multiple places during the 90s – hardly a hot bed of unionism mate.

          your comments so far reek of overly precious BS

          • Brett Dale 5.2.1.4.1

            framu:

            Perhaps the place I worked in was the exception to the rule?

            In terms of the employee and employer in this case, well its a bit different, the left has
            a huge stake in The Hobbit, failing, because if it does, they think it makes John Key look bad.

            • Pascal's bookie 5.2.1.4.1.1

              What a crock of shit.

            • framu 5.2.1.4.1.2

              perhaps it was

              but you know that bit where you take four comments to get to a point?

              maybe you wouldnt get so much sh|t if you just got there on the first one?

              —————

              oh… i just read the second part of your reply – i see where back into utter unsubstantiated BS again

              Did you not listen to the audio where the employer specifically states that the problem is the union membership?

              you cant help yourself can you?

        • One Tāne Viper 5.2.1.5

          “Choice words.”

          Bludger. Freeloader. Treacherous cretin.

          That’s not abuse. It’s description.

          • Polish Pride 5.2.1.5.1

            Only in your world OTV

            • felixviper 5.2.1.5.1.1

              Good for you, PP, standing up for the right to benefit from the hard work of others without doing any yourself.

              • Blue

                Felix says “standing up for the right to benefit from the hard work of others without doing any yourself.” Oooooh the irony. I thought thats what left wing politics was.

                • KJT

                  Unions are about getting a fair price for someones work.

                  Talk about reversal.

                  The RIGHT is about parasites stealing the products of workers labour.

                  The left is about getting social insurance, that WE PAY FOR. Not these bludgers.
                  http://kjt-kt.blogspot.co.nz/2011/03/kia-ora-yeah-we-should-be-doing.html

                  “Yeah we should be doing something about those on State welfare.

                  Banks and finance companies who fail with Government guarantees. And the insider traders who buy into them knowing they will fail and be bailed out.
                  Employers who can pay low wages because the state takes up the slack with WFF and childcare allowances.
                  Poor employers who drive good ones out of business because labour laws are so slack.
                  State owned companies given away to corporates for cents on the dollar.
                  External subsidies from ratepayers to dirty Dairy.
                  Employers given handouts to employ people who then get rid of them when the subsidy ends so they can get someone else who is subsidised.
                  Employers whose workforce are trained by the State..
                  Banks getting windfall profits when the OCR is raised.
                  Currency speculators who short the NZ dollar.
                  Really wealthy people who use a larger share of the countries resources, but structure their affairs so they do not pay taxes to cover their costs.
                  Fathers who use trusts to avoid paying child maintenance.
                  Farmers who have their hands out when they have floods, but do not have any taxable income.
                  State funded Police protection against people they have disenfranchised.

                  Politicians who accept an income from the people of NZ, while they sell them, and the country out, to their sponsors from private corporates.

                  Yep we really do need to cut welfare.””

                • felixviper

                  What’s ironic about you being wrong?

        • quartz 5.2.1.6

          I know what they were inferring

          They were “implying”. “Inferring” is what you did.

        • mike 5.2.1.7

          Hey Brett I can’t seem find the post in this thread where someone argues that unions using intimidation to get people to join is ok.

          Or are you just saying that when someone gets fired for being a union member the union has no right to complain about it because someone tried to push you into a union when you were a kitchenhand in the 90s? If so please keep taking the pills.

          Or just having a wee tr0ll perhaps.

          • Brett Dale 5.2.1.7.1

            Mike:

            No one should be fired for wanting to join a union. Lets wait for the facts of this case to play out.

            I 100% believe the Unions and the left have used this to make The Hobbit fail because they think it looks bad for national, when if the Hobbit is a roaring success it create more EMPLOYMENT for New Zealand actors.

            Surly the Unions want that? Or are they just about their political ideology.

            • PJ 5.2.1.7.1.1

              The Union wanted NZ actors, working in their own country, to have the opportunity to discuss having the same terms and conditions applied to them as the overseas actors filling roles of the same scale. In any and all films shot here, not just The Hobbit.

              • Akldnut - ASP

                Brett
                “………… Lets wait for the facts of this case to play out.”

                then

                “I 100% believe the Unions and the left have used this to make The Hobbit fail because they think it looks bad for national”

                Did the facts come out between when you started typing and when you finished?

                I call Bullshit Troll

              • Skinny

                Right on PJ! I laughed when I heard Key got a payment for appearing on the Letterman show ‘ paid actor.’

            • One Tāne Viper 5.2.1.7.1.2

              “Used this to make the Hobbit fail”

              Yes, your Union overlords have the power to do this. On Planet Brett.

              Have a little lie-down before you get altitude sickness.

            • mike 5.2.1.7.1.3

              So you’re waiting for the facts before you pass judgement on the employees case, but you’re going ahead with claiming that the Unions and ‘the left’ have used this case to ‘make The Hobbit fail’? K. I mean it about the pills bro.

              If you’re saying that the Unions and ‘the left’ have used the National party’s balls up over employment issues in general regarding The Hobbit to willfully cause the film to fail, that would be a topic separate to the OP, (unless you’re trying to imply that this could be some kind of stunt by said devious players, but that would seem to be at odds with your staunch ‘wait for the facts’ philosophy).

              You’ve lost me on how this ties in with your kitchenhand days.

  6. higherstandard 6

    Idiot employer who clearly wants to get rid of someone he doesn’t like, hasn’t played by the rules and will now be fucked over mercilessly by the employee and fair enough to.

  7. Pascal's bookie 7

    bretty boy.

    In another thread you were saying the left blogs should just let evryone say what they want pretty much.

    On this thread you’ve spammed the same comment three times and failed to engage in any sort of rational discussion about your own comments.

    Are you seeing what I’m driving at?

    When you raise something, and get a reply, and respond by just starting another subthread based on the same damn thing, readers are going to assume you are being a dick. that’s because you are being a dick. And calling you a dick isn’t attacking you needlessly, or censoring you, it’s just describing your behavior.

  8. Cato 8

    To be fair to Brett, union violence, intimidation and corruption is a pretty well-documented phenomenon. I think you’d have to be more loyal to partisanship than reason not to concede that. It’s a big part of the reason why such large swathes of workers are sceptical of the union movement.

    That, however, has nothing to do with the case at hand PROVIDED that the CTU release is presenting all the relevant facts in a fair manner. That’s a big proviso though, and I don’t see any concession from the tour guide operator that that was the reaon for the sacking. I wouldn’t want to rush to judgment until the rest of it comes out.

      • sweetd 8.1.1

        Is this an illegal recording? If the other party was not aware of the recording and did not give permission I think it might be, therefore everything on it, is inadmissible.

        • Pascal's bookie 8.1.1.1

          AFAIK you can record any convo you are party to

        • felixviper 8.1.1.2

          Pascal is correct but it goes even further.

          Any conversation can be recorded by anyone as long as at least one of the parties in the conversation is aware that it is being recorded, i.e. you don’t have to be part of the convo to record it.

          Admissibility in court is another matter, but as far as I know this isn’t one.

          • McFliper 8.1.1.2.1

            Wow.
                   
            Listening to the tape certainly shows the true motives for dismissal. 
                 
             

    • One Tāne Viper 8.2

      “Well documented.”

      Your opinion ≠ credible source.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.3

      To be fair to Brett, union violence, intimidation and corruption is a pretty well-documented phenomenon.

      Yep, it is:

      When Union violence has occurred, it has frequently been in the context of industrial unrest.[1] Union violence is generally a defensive measure carried out against guards or strikebreakers during attempts to undercut strikes.[dubious – discuss][1] Violence has ranged from isolated acts by individuals, to wider campaigns of organised violence to further union goals within an industrial dispute.

      And so is anti-union violence:

      Violence against unions may be isolated, or may occur as part of a campaign that includes spying, intimidation, impersonation, disinformation, and sabotage.[1] Violence in labor disputes may be the result of unreasonable polarization, or miscalculation. It may be willful and provoked, or senseless and tragic. On some occasions, violence in labor disputes may be purposeful and calculated,[2] for example the hiring and deployment of goon squads to intimidate, threaten or even assault strikers.

      • Cato 8.3.1

        Sorry DTB went to post before but saw this comment instead.

        Oh absolutely – I’m not saying unions have a monopoly on intimidation and violence – not at all. And examples of union misbehaviour do not obliterate the fact that unions play a legitimate and important function in advancing members interests and evening up bargaining power.

        But unions are human institutions, right? Shop stewards aren’t morally impeccable. Like all human institutions there is a latent potential for corruption.

        That’s why its foolish to try and deny that, where unions have been powerful, abuse and intimidation have occured. If you’re open minded on the subject try reading The Enemy Within by Robert F Kennedy – hardly a raging right-winger.

        It’s naive in extremis to assume that, because on the whole unions are good things, that the history and reputation of union violence is a complete false-consciousness fabrication. Moreover, claiming that it hasn’t been a problem in the past so jars with the memory of any living person who worked a blue collar job when unions did have clout that it damages unions today. What is needed is an acknowledgment that unions are imperfect and a focus on ensuring they are transparent and deal fairly members and non-members alike.

        As I said, however, that doesn’t touch on the matters this case raises, however.

        • karol 8.3.1.1

          Robert Kennedy is hardly radical left – according to this, he was centre left on economic issues and left on social policies.

          I think he was a bit anti-union. 

          • Pascal's bookie 8.3.1.1.1

            And the US is kind of an exceptional case.

            Although, any Kennedy of that era lambasting the US unions for their well documented links to crime figures et al, takes some balls, as they say.

            • Cato 8.3.1.1.1.1

              I would agree that RFK was no radical leftist (at least not in that era) but the congressional findings speak for themselves. Furthermore, while the US is a special case (as is the case with US corporations) it would be naive not to heed the lessons learned there.

              • karol

                And, yet, we see more court cases in NZ involving mismanagement and corruption among business owners or managers, than among union leaders.

              • Pascal's bookie

                it would be naive not to heed the lessons learned there

                Well sure, but it would be foolish indeed to generalise from the US experience. What are the lessons? That unions will be corrupt in a corrupt milieu? That if you criminalise organisation, organisers will team up with criminals?

                The unions in the US didn’t hook up with the mafia because of any inherent thing about unionism, but because of things to do with the political and social environment, the same things that led to the rise and power of the mafia itself.

                One could draw the lesson for the US that the attitude towards labour that led to the use of groups like the Pinkertons, and events like the battle of Blair mountain ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain ) forced workers to be more militant in their organising.

                But I think the real lesson is that the US is an exceptional case, with many warnings that don’t really apply elsewhere due to the unique history of the left in the US.

    • Te Reo Viper 8.4

      “To be fair to Brett, union violence, intimidation and corruption is a pretty well-documented phenomenon.”

      Firstly, you don’t have to be fair to Brett, he’s already fair to middling. Secondly, it’s all Lombard Street to a china orange that you can’t substantiate the second part of the sentence in a local context.

      re: the recording, unless the other party consented to the recording, it’s inadmissable in court. But neither the Labour Department Mediation service nor the Employment Relations Authority are a court. The employer’s in deep doodoo and can look forward to copping substantial financial penalties and the reasonable prospect of having to rehire the worker concerned..

    • felixviper 8.5

      “To be fair to Brett, union violence, intimidation and corruption is a pretty well-documented phenomenon.”

      That’s true, but not in the sense you imagine. Industrial action has resulted in two killings in NZ to date, neither of them perpetrated by the workers’ side.

    • geoff 8.6

      Why the hell should anyone be fair to Brett?? He’s a completely ignorant right wing twat who has managed to hijack this entire post. I’m beginning to think he’s actually a spam-bot that’s running on one of the National Party Research Unit servers.

      [lprent: Unfortunately not. He is a real person, and as much as I frequently get personally irritated with his boneheaded stubbornness, he usually sticks within my interpretation of the policy so he doesn't get moderated. You just have to argue more effectively. He actually does respond to argument. It just may take a while. :twisted: ]

      • Brett Dale 8.6.1

        Geoff:

        Im right Wing huh?

        Lets see I hate fox news, I love President Obama, I hate the gop. Im pro choice, im for gay marriage, I believe the rich should be tax more, I believe tax dollars should go to health and education, I believe in climate change, I believe in gun control.

        How the heck is that right wing?

        I just hate hypocrisy, I believe the new zealand left wing blogosphere is turning into our left wing version of the disgusting Faux news.

        • framu 8.6.1.1

          “I just hate hypocrisy”

          you must really hate yourself then bretty brett

          do we have to go up thread where your saying that we should wait for all the facts then condemming and judging unionists in the same comment?

          dear mods – OK i’ll stop now – getting off topic and ending up brett baiting instead

          • Polish Pride 8.6.1.1.1

            I particularly like the fact that Brett can frame an argument WITHOUT having to insert an insult or put down or snide comment directed at the person whose post he is responding to. A skill many on here seem to struggle a great deal with. “bretty brett” – seriously!?!
            It is a sad but common theme..

            • framu 8.6.1.1.1.1

              oh cry me a river

              the reactions brett gets is solely because of the way he behaves

              if hes wants to behave like a kid who cant make a decent argument he will get treated like one

              geez PP its almost like you havent read the ongoing childish, trollish behaviour brett has displayed in this thread.

              Its funny this “oh, your calling him names” thing that crops up here from time to time. Ever notice how theres lots of discussion where people REALLY dont agree but theres no name calling because people are actually engaging in honest, well thought out debate? (thats not to deny the opposite doesnt happen of course)

            • Pascal's bookie 8.6.1.1.1.2

              PP, you may have missed that Brett hasn’t actually made much in the way of an argument. Lots of accusations and assertions, but a singular failure to justify them.

            • felixviper 8.6.1.1.1.3

              Err, in this very thread he has

              1. named an person who blogs under a pseudonym,
              2. lied about details of her real life,
              3. lied about her online activities as well, accusing her of some pretty horrible things,
              4. accused a political party of being responsible for the things he made up.

              Which of those do you not find insulting, snide, or sad?

              • hey felix:

                The person I name, has her name on her blog, and her name is known on the other blog she has written for.

                She has written opinion pieces at the Waikato times andnzherald under her name.

                So I havent outed her if that is what you are suggesting, she is known with her work with (IWCNZ)

                I have never lied about her online activities, go ahead ask her and she will admit deleting comments in the comment section and then telling that person where to go.

                I didnt lie about her details of her life, that was poor writing, I said she was labour list MP, which was factually incorrect, instead of saying “she was on the labour party list.

                • felixviper

                  I checked her blog.

                  She never did the things you accuse her of.

                  You lied.

                  • Yes she did felix and here is the link.

                    http://thehandmirror.blogspot.co.nz/2011/07/yet-another-burqa-post.html

                    stargazer said…
                    thanx cara, appreciate your post. lucy, sorry i haven’t got back to you, but was too tired last night & pretty busy today.

                    fish, i see that you don’t care to respect anyone’s boundaries or polite requests, so i’m telling you to piss off. you aren’t welcome on this blog, anywhere. an inability to respect that fact clearly shows you for the asshole you are. you are perfectly free to start your own blog & make as many moronic comments there as you like. just leave ours alone.
                    Saturday, July 09, 2011 6:55:00 PM

                    • One Tāne Viper

                      Yes, liar, you dig your hole even deeper when you prove that when you said she censors different opinions, you were lying.

                    • NoseViper (The Nose knows)

                      Is Brett a troll that wastes space and time here or not? Is he useful as an irritant like a thorn in the skin?

  9. Skinny 9

    Commonly known as Union Busting and it’s ‘illegal.’

      There is a terrible under tone happening here with active union members being targeted for standing up for workers rights. Take health & safety as an example. Raise concerns and get singled out for special treatment from the employer. It is unjust behavior that leads to workers not rocking the boat safety wise i.e. Pike River.

     Yes and John Keys Union busting antic’s fuels totally unacceptable behavior by mongrel Bosses, who are more interested in higher dividend returns for shareholders than the safety & wellbeing of the worker!

    Hearing today the crap the Justice Department ( National Government are pulling the strings on this) are trying on ‘affected’ IT workers is disgraceful. Basically the JD has facilitated jobs as contractors to a Jap outfit on inferior conditions, including no rights to redundancy payments & in the contract a waiver to litigating against the major 
    Contractor. This is a blatant attempt to shield the Justice Department thru a second tier layer by the right!

    Let’s see some action in the house from Fenton, Roche & Horan < '.' Stand up and deliver!   

    • Rosie 9.1

      Skinny is right. “Commonly known as Union busting and its illegal”. As is Helen Kelly of course.. Its not a case of Todd Rippon shouldn’t be fired for being a Union member, its he “can’t” be fired on those grounds. It should be a clear cut personal grievance claim.

      http://www.dol.govt.nz/er/starting/unions/rights-engaged-in-activities.asp

      It will be interesting to see if this latest bit of Hobbit news makes it to other countries who take their union rights and employment law a little more seriously than we do.

  10. If the union is trying to effect Hobbit tickets overseas, then one thats disgusting because it effects jobs here, secondly they are delusional, it will have no effect.

    • McFliper 10.1

      lol
           
      Besides the complete bullshit of your statement, if it exists but has no effect then there’s no need for disciplinary action of any sort. So why fire anyone?

    • VindowViper 10.2

      Well yes. Personally I hope The Hobbit bombs. (And some of the reviews suggest this is not such a vain hope.)

      Yes it’s a hard and bad thing for the jobs that will be lost; but our experience with this industry tells us that they were highly likely to be lost anyway. There will always be somewhere else willing to do it cheaper and as long as the industry is controlled by non-New Zealanders … cheaper will always win. Our national interests will not count.

      The sooner the illusion is popped the better in the long run.

    • fender/same sentiment less eloquent Viper 10.3

      This is getting stale Brett. Nobody is trying to flop a movie. A guy was sacked illegally.

      Wake up or keep off the ale Dale.

      • Brett Dale 10.3.1

        So fender with all the other cases there are around the country, why does the ctu mention this one?

        • fender/same sentiment less eloquent Viper 10.3.1.1

          Because it’s relevant and needs to be highlighted don’t you think? Gross abuse of workers rights Brett.

          It’s only a stunt in your movie plot mind because you seem to have strong dislike for Unions.

    • rosy viper 10.4

      If the union is trying to effect Hobbit tickets overseas

      I think you mixed up effect and affect. In the context of your post that’s important.

      On second thoughts – I’ll take it as written.

  11. Im saying the Union is doing its best to make the Hobbit look bad, because they think if they effect its ticket sales, it will look bad for John Key.

    The union should be hoping for its success.

    In the case of this union member that got fired, if its proven his firing was unjustified then yes he should get compensated.

    • fender/same sentiment less eloquent Viper 11.1

      “In the case of this union member that got fired, if its proven his firing was unjustified then yes he should get compensated”

      This is the only thing you have correct Brett. So stop repeating your other bs ranting.

      The Hobbit isn’t Keys’ movie no matter how much he may wish it to be Brett.

      • Brett Dale 11.1.1

        Will just have to wait until the facts come out with this case, and see what happens.

      • Brett Dale 11.1.2

        I agree, its got nothing to do with key, doesnt matter if its a success or not, some though are trying to paint that way.

        • fender/same sentiment less eloquent Viper 11.1.2.1

          There is a connection to Key though isn’t there, with his Warner/Jackson gang beating up on workers so movie makers can buy an extra mansion per film each with their added profit scam our PM arranged.

          They could star in their own Great Train Robbery remake and order some wagons from Hillside, oh hold on.

          • Brett Dale 11.1.2.1.1

            Fender

            Seriously?

            The warner/jackson gang, beating up on workers? to they can buy an extra mansion????

            Are you that dumb?

            • One Tāne Viper 11.1.2.1.1.1

              Careful Fender, the clown prince of unsubstantiated assertions thinks you might be making an unsubstantiated assertion. Don’t want to offend the hypocrite, now do we?

              • fender Viper

                I get the feeling Brett Dale is that fool james111 who used to come here spinning anti union crap.

  12. Richard 12

    Clearly a case of the powerful invisible hand sweeping all before him – how dare they threaten the golden egg. It’s got Politics written all over it. The guy has every right to join whatever union he chooses. You can’t however disect the actual dismissal publicaly but it sounded very unprofessional. Let’s face it National Govt hate unions and I would not be surprised if they get a third term the ERA will be ammended or scrapped. That’s why numbers are so important to National. We all know Hollywood have the govt on their knees over a few issues, it’s called a Fair Trade Agreement – dealing with the Stars and Stripes is one way traffic. Key has to stand up on this which will humiliate him. That’s why he won’t. Maybe Brendan Horan could do it.

    • higherstandard 12.1

      What’s this got to with the government.

      It’s an issue for the employment lawyers as it is a simple employment dispute, which does make one wonder why Todd chose to play this out in the media and why the CTU is blowing it up for their own particular political purposes ?

      • Te Reo Viper 12.1.1

        Yeah, HS, the government has no interest in the Hobbit at all. It’s not like they randomly changed employment law and bunged $30 million to the makers of the film, is it?

        • higherstandard 12.1.1.1

          What has this employment case got to do with the government ?

          • Te Reo Viper 12.1.1.1.1

            Have a coffee, HS, you’re not very sharp this morning. As well as the reason I’ve given above, the complaint about the sacked worker allegedly came from a government agency, and the minister responsible for that sector is John Key, the same man who authorised wasting taxpayer’s money on the film and briefly ceded our sovereignty to Warners at the same time.

            The Government is responsible for an atmosphere where not liking the Hobbit, or even being thought to not like the Hobbit, is considered a reason for dismissal. Hobbit hater, remember?

            • Pascal's bookie 12.1.1.1.1.1

              “There is no connection between the blacklist (and it’s eventual retraction) and the choice of production base for The Hobbit”

            • higherstandard 12.1.1.1.1.2

              I realise both you and the CTU are desperate for this to be pinned on Key and the government but there’s really quite weak justification for that when the allegation has already been denied by the agency in question.

              As I asked previously why isn’t this being progressed through an employment lawyer and what is the rationale for the CTU playing it out in the media ?

              More to the point what does Todd want as an outcome as he, IMO, is the injured party ?

            • Jenny Michie 12.1.1.1.1.3

              John Key said this morning on MR that:
              A) if someone wants to belong to a union, they can; and
              B) that he would never get involved an employment dispute.

              What on earth did he think he was doing 2 years ago when his government unilaterally changed NZ’s employment law to placate Warner’s in order to ‘settle’ an employment dispute?

              Hypocrisy. Historically something that will eventually bring politicians and governments down. Of course it does require a semi-conscious electorate so I’m not holding my breath.

  13. One Tāne Viper 13

    Dear sub-pontal wingnuts who have been waiting for all the facts to come out making up your own facts.

    Listen to the recording.

  14. One Tāne Viper 14

    NRT: “Hopefully this shitty little tourism company will receive an expensive reminder that the law still applies…”

    And there’s the problem right there. So long as the only penalty is a fine, criminal scum will continue to harass and attack working New Zealanders.

    Criminalise this treachery. The low-life should be looking at a five year stretch on top of the fine the company will receive.

    • Te Reo Putake 14.1

      Just back of the envelope stuff, OTH, but $5k for the unfair dismissal (maybe more for the aggravating factor), maybe another $5-10k for lost income, another few grand for hurt and humiliation, and a real possibility of being ordered to reinstate the worker. That’s a pretty comprehensive thumping for the employer, who is presumably running a relatively small business.

      Not excusing the behaviour, but it doesn’t require criminal charges to make this hurt the boss concerned.

      • One Tāne Viper 14.1.1

        I’m thinking more in terms of the stigma that a criminal conviction carries: the clear message it sends to the low-life that they are despised by society. The clear message it sends to employees that employers who treat them this way are regarded in the same way that most of us see violent gang members.

        The beneficial effect of removing scum from the pool of potential employers, with the flow-on effect that good employers no longer have to compete with the lowest common denominator.

        The elevation of basic human rights above the “nice to have” status that they are currently afforded.

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    Greens | 30-10
  • NZ goes backwards on gender equality
    It is no coincidence that in the same week New Zealand is singled out for going backwards on child poverty under National,  we’ve also dropped in global rankings for gender equality. In one year New Zealand has dropped from 7th...
    Greens | 30-10
  • Kevin Hague questions the Minister of Health on management of Katherine Ric...
    Is he satisfied that all conflicts of interest that arose by the head of Food and Grocery Council Katherine Rich being a member of the Health Promotion Agency were managed in accordance with the provisions of the Crown Entities Act...
    Greens | 30-10
  • Bennett parks numbers on social housing
    Social Housing Minister Paula Bennett admitted today that well over 1000 families have been subsidised through the accommodation supplement to stay in the Ranui campground, somewhere she has previously described as not the right place for children to be growing...
    Labour | 30-10
  • 50,000 sign petition against anti-worker law
    More than 50,000 Kiwis have signed Labour’s petition against the Government’s scrapping of tea break entitlements, Labour’s Acting Deputy Leader Annette King says. “That’s the equivalent of five people signing our petition every minute for a week. It shows the...
    Labour | 30-10
  • Address in Reply Debate – Dr Kennedy Graham on UN Security Council- 2...
    In the Speech from the Throne last week the Prime Minister identified the usual domestic goals for his Government. I counted 17. They are not my subject today. I wish instead to focus on matters beyond our shores. In the...
    Greens | 30-10
  • Climate change harming ocean health
    New Zealand is responsible for one of the largest areas of sea in the world – an area 14 times the size of our land area. The National Government is promising new marine protected areas legislation with a discussion document...
    Greens | 30-10
  • Key misled public over Jason Ede
    Information contained in a new chapter of the book Key: Portrait of a Prime Minister, that Jason Ede stopped working for the National Party on the night the book Dirty Politics was released, shows Mr Key and senior ministers hid...
    Greens | 29-10
  • Greenpeace report highlights better path for NZ agriculture
    A Greenpeace International report highlights a better way forward for New Zealand agriculture than the GE and chemical mutation technologies supported by Federated Farmers, and the National Government through its research funding packages, the Green Party said today. "This report...
    Greens | 29-10
  • BNZ post record profits while leaving savers vulnerable
    A small part of the $850 million record profit posted by the Bank of New Zealand (BNZ) today needs to be set aside to protect savers' deposits in the future, said Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman today.Dr Norman was...
    Greens | 29-10
  • RBNZ U-turn shows monetary settings were wrong
    The Reserve Bank's U-turn on interest rates today shows monetary policy settings were wrong and New Zealanders have suffered unnecessarily through the loss of jobs and having to pay higher interest rates, the Green Party said today.Reserve Bank Governor Graeme...
    Greens | 29-10
  • Ports must take responsibility for shameful death toll
    Port companies must step up and take responsibility for a shameful toll of seven deaths and 133 serious accidents in the past three years, Labour MP Iain Lees-Galloway says. The frightening figures – released by the Rail, Maritime and Transport...
    Labour | 29-10
  • Please help me get my Feed the Kids Bill to Select Committee
    Last week I took over the Feed the Kids Bill that Hone Harawira had introduced to Parliament. If passed, my Bill will provide government-funded breakfast and lunch in all decile 1 and 2 schools. Hungry kids can’t learn and are...
    Greens | 29-10
  • TVNZ Outsourcing Pasifika and Maori Programmes
    I’ve always been a big fan of our state broadcaster and I’ve particularly liked their range of current events programmes. But after Friday’s announcement that TVNZ will be sacking up to 40 staff by contracting out the Pacific and Maori...
    Greens | 29-10
  • Labour urges iwi leaders to meet with National
    Labour’s Māori Caucus has called on iwi leaders and national Māori organisations to seek urgent meetings with the National Government to directly express their concerns about employment law changes which will harm Māori workers. In an open letter sent today...
    Labour | 29-10
  • ACC’s reputation needs fix, not glitz
    Restoring public trust and confidence in ACC will take a lot more than a new communications strategy or social media blitz, says Labour’s ACC spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway. “Under National, ACC has come to be perceived as insensitive, difficult to deal...
    Labour | 29-10
  • Lessons to be learned from police investigation
    The outcome of the so-called Roast Busters case should not put victims off reporting sexual crimes, Labour’s Acting Deputy Leader Annette King says. “This case has been mishandled from the start. Within days of police initially saying no charges had...
    Labour | 29-10
  • Anti-worker legislation is anti-Pacifica
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, will go down in history as being part of a Government that harmed his own people through anti-worker legislation, says Labour’s Pacific Island Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio.  “Pacific people are among...
    Labour | 29-10
  • Five-year tax holiday for overseas tax dodgers
    National has just gifted a five-year tax holiday for foreign companies dodging their tax payments, says Revenue spokesperson David Clark. “Todd McClay has pretended he is doing something about overseas companies dodging their tax duties by joining an international initiative...
    Labour | 29-10
  • Traffic Jam Tax must be given the red light
    Auckland Council’s proposed Traffic Jam Tax could cost some households thousands of dollars a year just to use roads they had already paid for with their taxes and must be rejected, says Labour’s transport and Auckland Issues spokesperson Phil Twyford....
    Labour | 29-10
  • National has chance to show leadership on limos
    The National Party has the opportunity to show leadership by transitioning our vehicle fleet towards renewable electricity when a new contract to supply Government limousines for VIPs goes to tender next month, the Green Party said today. "This is a...
    Greens | 29-10
  • The Māori Party can’t have it both ways over labour laws
    The Māori Party has to fess up over its voting record on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, says Labour’s Māori Caucus.  “It’s simply not good enough to oppose the bill at the same time  as they helped speed up its progress through...
    Labour | 29-10
  • Equal pay and the aged care sector
    Today the High Court upheld the historic ruling by the Employment Court that our Equal Pay Act could be used to consider work of equal value cases; the government has been telling the UN and ILO that it could for...
    Greens | 29-10
  • Court case perfect opportunity for Government to improve gender pay gap
    If the Government wants to halt New Zealand’s slump in international rankings on the gender pay gap it should act on the court finding that women deserve equal wages, Labour’s Women’s Affairs spokesperson Sue Moroney says. “The World Economic Forum’s...
    Labour | 28-10
  • All Auckland transport options should be considered
    All options for meeting Auckland's transport needs should be considered, including reprioritising the transport budget away from wasteful spending on motorways, the Green Party said today.Auckland mayor Len Brown is today releasing a transport report by the Independent Advisory Board,...
    Greens | 28-10
  • Another report highlights Govt failure on child poverty
    An international report measuring the impact of the Global Financial Crisis (GFC) on child poverty rates, showing children in New Zealand have done worse than children in other countries, is further proof the Government needs to urgently take additional steps...
    Greens | 28-10
  • Address and Reply Debate Part 55: Inequality and Disability
    I rise on behalf of the Green Party to talk about inequality and disability.The recent census showed that nearly one in four New Zealanders lives with a disability—up from one in five in the previous census. These figures include some...
    Greens | 28-10
  • Address and Reply Debate Part 55: Inequality and Disability
    I rise on behalf of the Green Party to talk about inequality and disability.The recent census showed that nearly one in four New Zealanders lives with a disability—up from one in five in the previous census. These figures include some...
    Greens | 28-10
  • Child poverty: No more wake-up calls
    A new report which shows the National Government has made no inroads whatsoever into child poverty should do more than just set alarm bells ringing, Labour’s Acting Deputy Leader Annette King says. “UNICEF’s  latest Innocenti Report Card highlights the fact...
    Labour | 28-10
  • Eugenie Sage speaks in the 2014 Address in Reply Debate
    I congratulate you, Assistant Speaker Mallard, as Assistant Speaker and look forward to your knowledge, your fairness, and your light touch in being a referee of proceedings in this House. I congratulate also the other Assistant Speaker, Lindsay Tisch; the...
    Greens | 28-10
  • James Shaw’s Maiden Speech
    Tena Koe, Mr Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity to speak a little of the past, the present and the future. The privilege to serve in this Parliament was given to me by all those who gave their...
    Greens | 28-10
  • Govt airs real views on public broadcasting
    An admission by the Government that it is happy to experiment with Pacific and Maori audiences shows just how weak its vision for public broadcasting in New Zealand is, Labour’s Broadcasting spokesperson Kris Faafoi says. “National today admitted it doesn’t...
    Labour | 28-10
  • Does Judith Collins have a get out of jail card?
    Former justice minister Judith Collins appears to have been gifted a get out of jail free card based on the Prime Minister’s answers in Parliament today, Labour’s Acting Deputy Leader Annette King says. “Judith Collins claimed in an Official Information...
    Labour | 28-10
  • Solid Energy decision delay sensible
    Today’s announcement by the Board of Solid Energy that it will delay making a final decision on re-entering the Pike River mine is a sensible move, Labour’s MP for  West Coast-Tasman Damien O’Connor says. “It has been clear for some...
    Labour | 28-10
  • New York Green Bank off to a $1B start
    New York Governor Andrew Cuomo announced late last week the New York Green Bank’s first NZD$1 billion tranche of green energy investments. The projects, which are difficult for the private sector to finance, are now possible by New York Green...
    Greens | 28-10
  • The Final Fifth: The Last Great Task for Progressive New Zealand.
    MOST OF NEW ZEALAND’S social problems are concentrated among those living at the margins of what is otherwise a relatively wealthy society. Recently released international data on child poverty has exposed an acutely stressed social strata encompassing roughly 20 percent...
    The Daily Blog | 31-10
  • Myth Busting Rape Boasters
    In just one week a case that galvanised a nation into discussing rape culture is now being reframed as mischievous teen hi-jinx. One year ago the Roast Busters case came to the attention of the media and the public. This...
    The Daily Blog | 31-10
  • Workers rights weakened by new laws – fightback needed
    The government’s changes to the employment laws are designed to weaken workers bargaining power – at both the individual and collective level.   30-day rule The old law required an employer with a collective agreement in place to employ new...
    The Daily Blog | 31-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Simon Buckingham – Where are Labour Candidates on disability?
    For the few people who know me (hello Mum), I am proudly New Zealand’s first Autistic Spectrum Lawyer, as well as being the very bottom Candidate on the Labour Party List. (64 out of 64). Being honoured like this is...
    The Daily Blog | 31-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Blockade the Budget
    The ‘Independent’ Police Conduct Authority’s report into the policing of student protests in 2012 is a whitewash The report released by the Independent Police Conduct Authority into the policing of student protests in 2012 is a whitewash riddled with inaccuracies....
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • When National claim new anti worker laws provide ‘flexibility’ they mea...
    And so it comes to pass. The first law National ram through as part of their victory march are new anti worker laws they pretend will generate ‘flexibility’. The new law denigrate the unions ability to protect workers and provide...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • City Transport: A Taxing Matter
    This week the prospect of paying tolls on Auckland motorways became a hot topic. (See Mathew Dearnaley:Motorway tolling could hit some hard, NZ Herald, 30 Oct 2014.) As we might expect, the kneejerk response has been quite negative. But, as with...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • Open Letter to Amy Adams: Please Reopen The Review Into Sexual Violence Cou...
    Ms Amy Adams, Justice and Courts Minister, Right now in this country it seems that although rape is illegal, it is not being prevented by the agents who uphold the law. It almost feels like rape is only illegal on paper,...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • MEDIA WATCH: Does ‘No-Surprises’ Also Apply To TVNZ News?
    When you stand back and look at NZ media outlets, most of them have at least one or two people who attempt to hold the government to account: John Campbell on TV3, Guyon Espiner and others at Radio NZ, David...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • Things That Make You Go Hmmmmmmm
    Every so often in politics, a public figure comes out with something so absurd and so outlandish … that it really does just make you go “Hmmmmmmmmmm”. We’re accustomed to this from certain quarters – by mid point through the...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • Poverty & inequality don’t need protest marches – they need a riot:...
    The global level of inequality continues to skyrocket… Number of billionaires doubled since financial crisis The number of billionaires has doubled since the start of the financial crisis, according to a major new report from anti-poverty campaigners. According to Oxfam,...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • If Key knows who Rawshark is…
    I’m sorry, what? John Key ‘given Rawshark’s name’The Prime Minister believes he knows who hacked Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater’s computer and produced the source material for Nicky Hager’s Dirty Politics, according to a new edition of a recently published...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • Child Poverty stats in NZ
    Child Poverty stats in NZ...
    The Daily Blog | 30-10
  • Crimes Act + Police Investigation = WTF
    Just to frame the farce that is the Roastbuster’s investigation and conclusion – here are the parts of the Crime Act http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/whole.html#DLM329057  the Roastbusters are proven to have violated – that the police (and some suspects!) themselves acknowledge occurred: Crimes...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • Publishing Journalists’ Home Addresses Is A Tactic Of The Right, Not The ...
    I think I’m starting to get rather annoyed with the conduct of some pro-MANA people over this ongoing Parliamentary Services crew complement issue. Yes, we get that there are legitimate issues to be raised with how some political reporters in...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • Aucklanders caught between a tarseal-addicted government and a weak mayor
    Len Brown’s proposal for motorway tolls to reduce congestion and provide funding for better public transport is a weak response to a critical issue. The $12 billion dollar shortfall on transport funding he talks about is mainly for projected new...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • A Very Weird Story: Deconstructing Darren Aronofsky’s Noah.
    NOAH is a curious movie. Conceived as a biblical epic, it’s target audience was originally the millions of Americans who regard the Bible as God’s inerrant word. With the sin-filled works of Hollywood forbidden to these true-believers, Christian movie-makers have developed...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • You Can Get Away With Rape In New Zealand
    Jessie Hume with last years petition against rape     The police have sent a strong message today.  In fact they’ve been sending a strong message for a while; a message that our government supports. “You can literally get away...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • Roast Buster case – no charges. In the immortal words of NWA…
    Roast Busters case: No prosecutions Police are to make an announcement this afternoon on Operation Clover, the investigation into the “Roast Busters” allegations. The Herald understands the victim has been told that the alleged offenders will not be prosecuted due...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • Key’s flag change distraction to cost $26million!
    No. Way. Bid to change NZ flag to cost millions The cost of holding two referendums and consulting on a change of flag has been estimated to be just under $26 million. Look. We all appreciate that the sleepy hobbits...
    The Daily Blog | 29-10
  • Why NZ Herald’s Labour Party crocodile tears are so audacious
    The front page the NZ Herald would use if they thought they could get away with it No one can take the recent columns by NZ Herald seriously… John Armstrong: Shadow lingers on National John Roughan: Labour’s leadership vote matters...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • The beginning of the end of Cameron Slater?
    Slater postings on man bizarre, court told A businessman has changed his appearance and had to install extra security at his home after Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater posted his business and personal documents online, he says. Mr Slater has...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • We are a milk power republic and Fonterra our unelected senate
    Wow. Just wow… Deputy mayor says he’ll be sacked South Taranaki deputy mayor Alex Ballantyne says he expects to be sacked because he has spoken out about the impact gasses coming from dumped Fonterra dairy products have had on his...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • MEDIA WATCH: “…But *actually* this is about ethics in political-game jo...
    Yesterday, a piece of mine on the recent revelations about Hone Harawira employing several gentlemen either accused or convicted of sex offences was published on The Daily Blog. Predictably, given the fierce loyalty which Hone inspires in his party faithful and...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • Privilege cheque
    There was no race problem in my childhood. Living in central Wellington I was well-insulated from what was going on not so far away. This was the 60s and 70s, where the teachers enjoyed free love in the staff room...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • A brief word on Key’s claim that it will be raining carnage
    Isis will ‘rain carnage on the world’ – John Key Left unchecked Isis would “rain carnage on the world”, Prime Minister John Key says, but he has yet to make a decision on whether New Zealand troops will join a...
    The Daily Blog | 28-10
  • Meanwhile…
    ...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • How does Andrew Little win Labour Leadership and unify the caucus?
    Audrey Young’s excellent column on how the Caucus vote  is shaping up shows how Andrew Little becomes the next leader of the Labour Party. She identifies the factions as the following… Andrew Little 6: Andrew Little, David Cunliffe, Iain Lees Galloway,...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Joe Trinder – Right of response to Curwen
    You have asked that Hone Harawira deserves to explain what happened, how would he explain when his next door neighbour is an alleged sex offender. What explanation can Hone offer he wasn’t involved, Hone had no idea this offending was...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • MEDIA WATCH: That Hella-Weird Feeling When You Defend Tova O’Brien
    Oh dear. Yesterday morning I blogged that Hone deserved a chance to explain what exactly had happened as applies his office’s Parliamentary Services crew complement – and, importantly, that we deserve to be able to judge him on the strength of...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • Canadian Green MP warns against harsh anti-terror measures
    Canada’s Green Party has provided a welcome counterpoint to Prime Minister Harper’s call for tougher anti-terrorism laws in the wake of a soldier outside the Canadian Parliament. On October 22, while she was still locked in her parliamentary office, Green...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • When is an asset sale not an asset sale? When it robs from the poor and ste...
    National have turned state housing on its head. At no time during the 2014 election did the Key Government even hint that they were going to privatise 30% of the Housing NZ stock of state homes. Not once. Key even...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • Housing; broken promises, families in cars, and ideological idiocy (Part To...
    . . Continued from: Housing; broken promises, families in cars, and ideological idiocy (Part Rua) . Bill English comes clean on National’s intentions for HNZ privatisation . On 14 October, in a report on The Daily Blog, I wrote, In...
    The Daily Blog | 27-10
  • The Questions Have Been Asked – They Deserve An Answer
    A few days ago, allegations that had been percolating for some time about Hone Harawira employing three either accused or convicted sex offenders on his Parliamentary pay-roll came to light. (one imprisoned before working for MANA; one who found himself convicted and...
    The Daily Blog | 26-10
  • I have seen one future, and it is bleak
    . . Back in  March 2012, I wrote this story regarding a march to support striking workers at Ports of Auckland. It appears there was some prescience about some of my observations at the time… . | | 18 March...
    The Daily Blog | 26-10
  • US air strike war Key wants us in has killed a civilian a day so far
      The US air strike war that John Key wants us to join has killed a civilian a day so far. From the Washington Post... The United States launched its first airstrikes on militants in Syria on Sept. 23, and has continued...
    The Daily Blog | 26-10
  • The instant Jihad syndrome
    My favourite new term is ‘self-radicalised’ – it suggests the reasons for terrorism are totally divorced from the actions of the West. This need to suddenly ramp up terror laws because of lone wolf, self-radicalised Jihadists seems convenient and counter-productive....
    The Daily Blog | 25-10
  • We have nothing to fear from Ebola but fear itself
    I suspect most Americans perceive Ebola like this   I can’t work out if the fear being spread within the media about Ebola is deliberate or just ignorance. Yes Ebola is a terrible plague that kills a large percentage of...
    The Daily Blog | 25-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Anjum Rahman – “Meritocracy? I wish.”
    I’d like to start by linking to a post I had published at another site in support of Nanaia Mahuta for the Labour Party leadership election.  She has a reasonable chance, given that she already has the endorsement of Te...
    The Daily Blog | 25-10
  • Chocolate milk shortage and creepy Santa? Let’s talk about real news
    Child poverty is still a scarily serious problem in this country and house prices are soaring through the roof to the point where it is simply impossible for the average New Zealander to buy a home. There is also little...
    The Daily Blog | 25-10
  • It’s time to celebrate Kiwi schools and teachers
    Some would have you believe that New Zealand’s schools are in a state of collapse, that your children are not being educated well and that things are going to hell in a hand basket.  That there is no innovation, no...
    The Daily Blog | 25-10
  • Ideological Blitzkrieg – Privatization of state housing, more charter sch...
    Pundits in pundit land will tell you that this Government is boring, that Key is the great pragmatist and that it is his ability to create elegant solutions that keeps him the firm favourite in many Kiwi eyes. This ability...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • Hegemony rules but resistance is fertile
    The Prime Minister is a puppet. Not just our current Prime Minister, but given the forces of multinational globalisation, the role of any head of state, is less as independent actor, and more as a puppet of international trends and...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • An open Letter to Sir Bob Jones: demanding a ‘liveable wage’ is not “...
    How out of touch with reality is Sir Bob Jones? You know, that white dude who invested in privatised SOEs after the selling off of our assets in the eighties and made a ludicrous and disgusting amount of money and is...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • My insecurity about the Security Council
    As I write this (on 24 October) it is international UN Day. Of course, you all knew that already, right? Well, the day celebrates the entry into force of the UN Charter in 1945. With the ratification of this founding...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Catherine Delahunty – Back in That House
    Parliament opened this week and I still find it a very odd place. Most of the people are reasonably courteous and friendly, but the rituals are archaic and the rules around issues like the swearing in oath are oppressive and...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • Marae Investigates No More
    TVNZ yesterday announced the closure of their Māori and Pacific programmes department. That means they’ve chosen to stop making Fresh, Tagata Pasifika, Waka Huia and Marae Investigates to let independent producers get their hands on these lucrative contracts. This is...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • BLOGWATCH: An Un-Civil War in Labour, eh?
    Earlier today, my attention was directed to an entry that’s just recently appeared on the Slightly Left of Centre blog. It purports to contain the ‘inside word’ from a highly placed NZF source – which is funny, because I’m pretty sure...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • Santanomics 101
    Santanomics could mean a number of things. It could be the study and practice of giving. Or it could mean the study and practice of rampant end-of-year commercialism. However, for me today it is the economics of erectingAuckland’s giant Santa...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • SkyCity boss misleads public over workers lost shifts
    SkyCity CEO Nigel Morrison has defended the employment practices at his company in an “Opinion” piece entitled “Human Capital key to corporate success” in the NZ Herald on Thursday. A number of his claims are misleading, contain only partial truths...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • Roast Busters: Turn Indignation into Action
    People raged about the Roast Buster case. The indignation was justified – it was horrible. “Where were their parents!?” Fair question. I am sure the Roast Busters’ parents and the victims’ parents all wish they had been more proactive in...
    Scoop politics | 31-10
  • Stats NZ only have themselves to blame for postponement
    The Public Service Association (PSA) says Statistics NZ only have themselves to blame for the indefinite postponement of the release of the Food Price Index: November 2014....
    Scoop politics | 31-10
  • NZ Diversity Survey – benchmarking workplace diversity
    AUT University’s New Zealand Work Research Institute (NZWRI) has released a report on diversity in New Zealand workplaces....
    Scoop politics | 31-10
  • Māori Language (Te Reo Māori) Bill
    Tutehounuku Korako, Chair of the Māori Affairs Committee, is inviting further public submissions on this bill. The closing date for submissions is Friday, 5 December 2014....
    Scoop politics | 31-10
  • ERA amendments a mixed bag
    The Employment Relations Amendment Act has the potential to put vulnerable workers in a more precarious position, says Equal Opportunities Commissioner, Dr Jackie Blue. However, the commissioner says the right for all to request flexible work hours is...
    Scoop politics | 31-10
  • Sensible Sentencing calls for appeal of judicial activivism
    The Sensible Sentencing Trust is appalled that Justice Jill Mallon has today refused to apply the Life without Parole (LWOP) provisions of the Three Strikes law as enacted by Parliament....
    Scoop politics | 31-10
  • Global Rally against ISIS – for Kobanê – for Humanity, Nov 1
    The New Zealand Kurdish Community will march in solidarity with Kurdistan as part of the “GLOBAL RALLY AGAINST ISIS – FOR KOBANÊ – FOR HUMANITY” on 1 November 2014, 2pm....
    Scoop politics | 31-10
  • Does ‘No-Surprises’ Also Apply To TVNZ News?
    When you stand back and look at NZ media outlets, most of them have at least one or two people who attempt to hold the government to account: John Campbell on TV3, Guyon Espiner and others at Radio NZ, David...
    Scoop politics | 31-10
  • Safer roads are better for everyone
    Recent pedestrian versus vehicle incidents highlight the real issues being addressed by delegates as the 2Walk and Cycle conference concludes....
    Scoop politics | 31-10
  • Law change creates more flexible labour market
    The Employment Relations Amendment Act, passed yesterday, will bring new flexibility to the labour market and will reduce the ability of unions to organise and to recruit....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Bumper ANZ profits mean no excuse for insecure hours
    A big rise in profits at New Zealand's largest bank needs to be reflected in a better pay offer and more security around hours of work, the bank workers’ union said today....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Count down to lowered alcohol limit
    With just a month to go until a new lower alcohol limit for adult drivers comes into effect, Police and road safety agencies are reminding drivers of the impending change....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • WorkSafe Supports Forestry Review Findings
    WorkSafe NZ says the Independent Forestry Safety Review has clearly identified the problems facing an industry in which ten workers were killed last year. “The Review’s analysis matches our own view and leaves no doubt about the need for comprehensive,...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • CTU welcomes forestry review recommendations
    The CTU is welcoming the today's release of the independent forestry safety review panel findings. "These recommendations must be implemented to ensure that everything possible is done to make forestry safer." CTU President, Helen Kelly said....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Activists will confront animal abusers
    Today animal rights activists will confront a group of wealth advisers who want to build the biggest egg factory-farm in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Turia: Women’s Refuge Conference 2014
    This is a milestone moment in my life. This will be my last official address as Co-leader of the Maori Party. On Saturday night at our Hui-a-Tau, I will be standing down from that role and enabling a new co-leader,...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Rodeo Code of Welfare ‘Sick Joke’
    Animal advocacy organisation SAFE says the revised Code of Welfare for Rodeos just released is nothing but a sick joke. “Rodeo animals are goaded, tormented and forced to endure needless suffering and gross mistreatment, all for the sake of so-called...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Conservative Party applauds binding referenda on flag
    The Conservative Party are congratulating the Government on the decision to hold two binding referendums to decide the fate of New Zealand’s flag – and believes it will pave the way for binding referenda to form part of New Zealand...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Walk the Talk – Opposing violence against women
    Soroptimist International of Auckland have organised a walk on 22 November from Silo Park at the Wynyard Quarter through the Viaduct and back to Silo Park, to show their opposition to violence against women. This event hopes to raise awareness...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Recommendations on the Design of Pecuniary Penalties
    The Law Commission has reviewed the use of pecuniary penalties as a regulatory tool. Pecuniary penalties are financial penalties that policymakers are increasingly opting to use in place of criminal sanctions in order to punish and deter misconduct in...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Every worker will be affected by employment law changes
    Every worker will feel the effects of the government’s new employment laws and should join a union if they want to maintain and increase their wages and conditions, says New Zealand’s largest private sector union, the EPMU....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Shameful attack on all workers
    The Government has passed the Employment Relations Amendment Act slashing the rights of all Kiwi workers. “These changes are shameful. New Zealand now has some of the worst employment protections in the OECD. It is embarrassing that a country which...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Unnecessary law changes more to do with ideology
    The government’s employment law changes are simply ideological and are at odds with its approach in the related areas of health and safety and immigration law, FIRST Union said tonight....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • CTU Runanga calls on iwi leaders
    Maori workers are calling on iwi leaders to speak out against the employment law changes expected to go through today. “Iwi leaders have previously spoken out when workers in Aotearoa have been under attack, we believe they should do so...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Educating children not the best solution to alcohol harm
    Alcohol Healthwatch says we need to look beyond educating children and young people to address deeply embedded attitudes and behaviours concerning alcohol....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • New code of welfare for rodeos released
    New standards to strengthen the animal welfare requirements for rodeos have been issued today by the Minister for Primary Industries, Nathan Guy....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • IPCA report riddle with inaccuracies, say students
    A report by the Independent Police Conduct Authority into the policing of student protests in 2012 is riddled with inaccuracies, say students who laid the original complaint with the IPCA....
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • CT v The Queen – indecency convictions quashed
    This summary is provided to assist in the understanding of the Court’s judgment. It does not comprise part of the reasons for that judgment. The full judgment with reasons is the only authoritative document. The full text of the judgment...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Rameka v The Queen – murder convictions quashed
    This summary is provided to assist in the understanding of the Court’s judgment. It does not comprise part of the reasons for that judgment. The full judgment with reasons is the only authoritative document. The full text of the judgment...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Auckland Council Out of Control
    Responding to the NZ Herald article that some Auckland households will face a rates rise of up to 9.6 per cent next year, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says: “Len Brown’s pledge to cap rates rises at 2.5 per...
    Scoop politics | 30-10
  • Stats NZ staff escalate action with ‘no more meetings’ rule
    Statistics NZ staff have voted to escalate their ongoing industrial action in an effort to get Stats NZ back to the bargaining table with a reasonable offer. The staff, who are members of the Public Service Association (PSA), have been...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Rape Crisis calls for changes to criminal justice system
    Wellington Rape Crisis has added its voice to the public outcry following the announcement that there will be no charges in the teen rape gang case. Butterworth says the decision not to lay charges will not have been a surprise...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Police action justified in Blockade the Budget demonstration
    Police actions in dealing with a demonstration in Central Auckland known as Blockade the Budget on 1 June 2012 were justified and appropriate, an Independent Police Conduct Authority report released today found....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • NZDF Joins with Australia to Commemorate WWI Centenary
    A contingent of New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel will join their Australian counterparts at Australia’s first major commemoration of the First World War centenary in Albany, Western Australia this weekend....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Reserve Bank should reduce interest rate
    “The Reserve Bank should be reducing its policy interest rate, the OCR”, says CTU Economist Bill Rosenberg in response to the Bank’s announcement today that it is not increasing it....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • 2015 Stout Fellow will write about Māori & Criminal Justice
    Kim Workman, founder and advocate for the Robson Hanan Trust, which administers the Rethinking Crime and Punishment and Justspeak initiatives, has been awarded the 2015 John David Stout Fellowship at Victoria University....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • What John Key thought about ‘dirty politics’
    On September 20, John Key swept to victory to become one of New Zealand’s most successful and popular Prime Ministers. Rocked by scandal, the 2014 election campaign was one of the most brutal – and riveting – in recent history....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Trade Deal Threatens Farmers and Food Businesses
    The secret Trans Pacific Partnership negotiations are a direct threat to food businesses and farmers, and a moratorium on the release of GE crops must be enshrined in law before the TPP is signed....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • CTU announces election of new Secretary
    The contested election for the position of CTU Secretary has been won by Sam Huggard. Sam officially takes office on Monday 1 December 2014. Sam has worked in the union movement and brings a wealth of experience and a commitment...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Kim Workman awarded 2015 J.D. Stout Fellowship
    The Victoria University of Wellington 2015 J.D. Stout Fellowship, funded by the Stout Trust, has been awarded to justice reform advocate Kim Workman. Mr Workman (Ngati Kahungungu ki Wairarapa, Rangitaane) is well known for his work on criminal justice,...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • TPPA causing concern
    Concern over the secretive Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) negotiations is being expressed in two public meetings over the next week; one at a presentation on 5th November by former councillor Robin Gwynn to the Napier City Council, the...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Kiwis rally to demand justice for ‘Roast Buster’ survivors
    Over 1,500 kiwis have rallied to demand justice after the announcement of the NZ Police decision not to lay charges in the ‘Roast Busters’ saga....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • New employment law will hurt the most vulnerable NZers
    The Public Service Association (PSA) says changes to the Employment Relations Act, expected to be passed in Parliament tonight, will hurt vulnerable workers and their families more than anyone....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Consultation to close on proposed place names
    The New Zealand Geographic Board (NZGB) Ngā Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa today advised that only one month remains before public consultation closes for 18 name proposals for geographic features and places around Te Ika ā Māui (the North Island)....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Operation Clover – Statement from Police Commissioner
    I have taken a close interest in this investigation and I am confident police have conducted a thorough and professional enquiry in what has been a challenging and complex case. The Operation Clover team has ensured that victims have been...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Better policy would have protected children from recession
    Child Poverty Action Group says an international report released by UNICEF today shows good policy can protect and improve child well-being, even during a recession....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Outcome of Operation Clover investigation
    Police have completed a multi-agency investigation, Operation Clover, into the activities of a group calling themselves “The Roast Busters”. The 12 month enquiry focused on incidents involving allegations of sexual offending against a number of girls...
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • False birth registration brings home detention
    A Whangarei woman who attempted to register the birth of a fictitious child to claim a sole parent benefit was sentenced to six months home detention in the Whangarei District Court today....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Family of Robert Ellis demand a proper investigation
    The family of a New Zealander killed in Indonesia are growing increasingly concerned at the lack of information they’ve received, and the handling of the investigation into his murder....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
  • Minister of Health must account for aged care workers’ pay
    The New Zealand Federation of Business and Professional Women (BPW NZ) congratulates rest-home worker Kristine Bartlett on her landmark claim for equal pay from her employer and successfully pursuing this to the Court of Appeal....
    Scoop politics | 29-10
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