Written By: - Date published: 1:44 pm, June 24th, 2008 - 102 comments
Categories: labour, nz first, wages, workers' rights -
Tags: minimum wage
Labour, with the support of New Zealand First, has developed a bill based on Darien Fenton’s private members’ bill that will ensure tens of thousands of workers are no longer ripped off by ‘triangular employment’ situations, whereby their effective employer contracts out the actual employment of staff to a labour hire company.
It works like this: The labour hire companies cheaply and quickly provide businesses with labour that they can dispose of whenever they choose. The labour hire company makes a mint by charging out their workers for twice the rate that gets passed on to the worker. As the worker, you usually get minimum wage, the labour hire company makes $12 an hour off you, and your job can disappear at a moment’s notice. It really is the sharp end of surplus value.
The Bill will ensure that workers in triangular employment situations get the same work rights (including such basics as sick pay), the same wages, and same conditions as other workers in the same job, which many of them miss out on currently.
Business New Zealand, always a friend of the ordinary Kiwi, is complaining that these provisions to ensure workers get their basic rights will put the labour hire companies out of business. Good. The labour hire companies are scum. They take advantage of desperate workers and undermine workers’ rights by offering businesses a cheap way to get around labour law. My personal experiences and the horrific stories of other workers being exploited by labour hire companies make me think any law that sticks it to them and protects workers is good for the people of New Zealand.
Expect the Bill to pass with support from Labour, NZF, the Greens, the Maori Party. National will continue their perfect record of always voting against workers’ rights.
Facebook
Twitter
Scoopit!
As a parent of a young boy, I try to empower him to make choices. Sometimes he gets it all wrong, but that’s life. One thing it does give him is self esteem, confidence and respect. With those, he can achieve anything he wants to. Personal choice.
Sorry, I have trouble expressing my ethos, but I only have 5th form English.
Andrew Carnegie summed it up much better than I ever could:
Man does not live by bread alone. I have known millionaires starving for lack of the nutriment which alone can sustain all that is human in man, and I know workmen, and many so-called poor men, who revel in luxuries beyond the power of those millionaires to reach. It is the mind that makes the body rich. There is no class so pitiably wretched as that which possesses money and nothing else. Money can only be the useful drudge of things immeasurably higher than itself. Exalted beyond this, as it sometimes is, it remains Caliban still and still plays the beast. My aspirations take a higher flight. Mine be it to have contributed to the enlightenment and the joys of the mind, to the things of the spirit, to all that tends to bring into the lives of the toilers of Pittsburgh sweetness and light. I hold this the noblest possible use of wealth.
Instead of covering the problem with legislation, teach the people that they can do better. Give them the self esteem to look for something better, to be better, to do better. Their definition of better will be unique to them.
I am particularly lucky, I see my son most mornings, and in his three years have missed maybe a handful of good nights. Am I rich, financially no. But I consider myself wealthy beyond all the money in the world to have changed my life so that I can do that and pretty much live the way I want to live.
I would rather teach someone that they too can do that for whatever it is they value, and if they don’t want to be taught, that is their choice.
This really is a great example of talking at cross-purposes.
It does come down to attitude Karl, and yours is “devil take the hindmost”. Some of us don’t want those who made the wrong choices, or made the tough choices that they had to, to be left behind.
Some of us aren’t prepared to accept such mediocrity.
As for Tane’s comments about me being a capitalist, I vote Green and Labour, always have as long as I can remember. Self empowerment is not a capitalist attitude, it has nothing to do with money at all.
Picking up bins can be solved with technology, as can driving the dump truck and digging a ditch for foundations of an office block.
In fact, I would say there is very little in the way of manual labour that won’t be replace with technology in the next 50-60 years.
What then happens to the “serfs” who didn’t up skill? Will they then be complaining that technology put them out of work? You betcha they will. And they will have their hand out.
My father died of Alzheimers and my mother of old age depression. People who clean shit off old people, they are so underpaid it is unbelievable. Shows a complete lack of focus from the government.
They don’t care about people who really can’t help themselves. And that is where the real lack of empathy is.
teach the people that they can do better. Give them the self esteem to look for something better, to be better, to do better. Their definition of better will be unique to them.
Who the fu*k is this??? Tony fu*kn Robbins??? Dude do I get a free set of steak knives or something for having to read your bullsh*t??? Or is that only if I ring in the next 30 minutes…
“People who clean shit off old people, they are so underpaid it is unbelievable. Shows a complete lack of focus from the government.”
Why don’t thay take some responsibility and educate themselves? Get out of that job and on to better things…
I know that’s not what you mean by the comment, but there’s a massive contradiction in what you’ve just said.
“People who clean shit off old people, they are so underpaid it is unbelievable. Shows a complete lack of focus from the government.’
Why don’t thay take some responsibility and educate themselves? Get out of that job and on to better things
I know that’s not what you mean by the comment, but there’s a massive contradiction in what you’ve just said.
Simple; they are directly helping someone, and believe it needs to be done. As I said, not everyone values money as their highest priority. No contradiction there.
Robinsod, is your name S. Robinsod? Go watch a few episodes of Black Adder, you’ll get it eventually.
Also, take a look at:
$71 million boost for residential aged care in 2005 as one example from many, of not caring.
Karl, it’s not your fifth form English that’s the problem, it’s the fact you’ve picked up a few platitudes from Tony Robbins and mistaken it for a philosophy.
Instead of covering the problem with legislation, teach the people that they can do better. Give them the self esteem to look for something better, to be better, to do better. Their definition of better will be unique to them.
Good advice from a father to a son, but a bad basis for public policy. Someone has to do the menial, low-paid and often dangerous work. How do you think we should treat them as a society?
Matt – you’re looking at this all wrong. You need to visualise your success, to embrace your full potential and Karl can show you how! All it takes is three easy payments…
Simple; they are directly helping someone, and believe it needs to be done. As I said, not everyone values money. No contradiction.
No Karl Rohdes, they aren’t doing it for love. They’re doing it because they need money to feed their kids and put a roof over their head. Go ask a caregiver with three kids to support on $12 an hour if she cares about money.
“Simple; they are directly helping someone, and believe it needs to be done. As I said, not everyone values money. No contradiction.”
So now it’s ok to call for regulation to help people, where they can’t make some personal choice to improve their situation?
Still no contradiction registering?
Here’s another for you: $46 million more for injured New Zealanders
“Matt – you’re looking at this all wrong. You need to visualise your success, to embrace your full potential and Karl can show you how! All it takes is three easy payments ”
I was worried you’d find this thread…! (in the nicest possible way, ‘sod)
Bro – I can’t believe I missed it! Looks like Karl’s visulised himself skiving off from work early today though. I wonder if he power-walked home…
Nope; someone who is sick doesn’t have control over that. Someone who is in an accident probably didn’t have control over that.
Society is responsible for helping them. Same as people who are now retired and have paid their tax all their lives or contributed to society in other ways.
As for $46 million over 4 years… ummm… wow. I am sure the aid workers won’t spend it all at once.
One could say the government is as bad as the labour hire companies in this instance. They don’t value the young, sick or elderly. They just pretend to.
And National will just make it worse.
But as for unskilled workers… that is still their choice.
Karl. You say:
As for Tane’s comments about me being a capitalist, I vote Green and Labour, always have as long as I can remember. Self empowerment is not a capitalist attitude, it has nothing to do with money at all.
Yet you spout social darwinist crap and your website says:
VOTE RODNEY HIDE ELECTION 2008
Que?
“As for $46 million over 4 years ummm wow. I am sure the aid workers won’t spend it all at once.
One could say the government is as bad as the labour hire companies in this instance. They don’t value the young, sick or elderly. They just pretend to.”
I gather it was news to you, this $46m. So are you the type to complain about something, without looking at what’s actually happened? Given you’re taking that one example in isolation I assume so. Kinda goes against all your empowerment talk, I guess that’s all it is…
Here’s some advice, knowledge is power – go get some before complaining. I’ll resist the urge to quote Pokemon and talk about my Power Level.
As for your last comment, one could indeed say that. From a position of ignorance, one could say gosh darn near anything. Labour are not perfect, but have a record throughout their term of passing legislation that aids and assists in this area. Of course there’s still a long way to go, and they could have done better – but they can always do better.
And he’s still going… You’re just an energiser bunny today Karl – did you OD on your muscle mass builder? Or perhaps on your tooth-whitener…
See everybody this dogged repetition of badly thought out arguments could be yours if you just follow the Karl Rohde six step journey to personal self-fulfillment…
Ring 0800 Dull Libertarian right now and we’ll throw in the Karl Rohde guide to success and self delusion for half, yes HALF, price…
Order now stocks are limited…
How about this for an idea. Someone offers to go see these unskilled workers. Learn their jobs, learns what they want, understand what the labour hire companies are offering their clients.
The unskilled workers are being ripped off. Lets say the labour hire company is charging out the worker at $30.00 an hour, but paying them $12.00. That quite a bit of fat (not as much as some of you think though).
It takes a single manager plus admin person to manage 30 staff.
Manager, $55k/pa; Admin, $40k/pa; Other overheads like drivers, vans etc probaby couple of hundred thousand dollars a year. Then there is marketing; but that gets outsourced.
If someone showed those 30 staff how to put a co-operative together, they would no longer be on minimum wage. They would control their own life, they could put in place an education program to help up-skill, and bring in fresh staff and so on.
Eventually they would end up with a more skilled workforce and could go to higher paying contracts.
The profits would be shared.
They would have better working conditions, better pay, and they would be in competition with the existing hire companies.
They would attract better quality staff because they could pay more. The quality delivered to clients would be higher, and they would get a reputation for quality service.
All hypothetical, not libertarianism, not capitalist.
But the bottom line is they take ownership. It doesn’t require more legislation, it requires action. If the government was serious (any government); instead of putting money into the legislation, they put the money into education.
And guess what, I will offer to work these 30 people for free to get this venture off the ground. I will even help teach basic computer skills and budgeting; and see if there are government grants and work with the right people to get it happening.
But that means I might prove you moaners wrong about personal choice and you might discover that finding 30 people willing to take a risk is gonna be pretty hard.
But the offer is there; some of you have contacts in the labour hire market. Instead of moaning, why don’t you take action.
And yeah Robinsod, I don’t stop. I just get more focused until something gives.
Tane:
“VOTE RODNEY HIDE ELECTION 2008″
If you bothered to read, it was an attack on the electoral finance act.
No – I am not voting Rodney.
And yes, I knew about the 46mil and the 71mil and was completely underwhelmed. I was being sarcastic.
And yeah Robinsod, I don’t stop. I just get more focused until something gives.
Gives what? Free steak knives? Put me down for a set.
“Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
- H.L. Mencken
Your fetish with steak knives reminded me of this.
Karl Rohde:
Yes, everyone can be financially independent, society doesn’t exist, everyone is born with equal opportunity, and you’re a freaking moron.
Excellent, Roger Nome, so you are going to help 30 people get into their own business then, or just come out with negative drivel.
“Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.”
- Mark Twain
oh god, now with the Mark Twain quips as gospel.
The trouble with your Pollyanna Libertarianism is that it just doesn’t reflect reality. People are born into differing degrees of advantage, be it through inherited wealth, intelligence, energy, or just plain freedom from physical or mental illness/disability. It’s a childish view of the life, which if implemented on a society-wide level would just lead to more suffering, poverty and misery as the gaps between rich and poor widen exponentially, and poverty becomes more cyclical and entrenched.
Reality is just so much more complex than your silly reductive little paradigm, which is usually preached by the dull, and/or perennially privileged who are unable, or unwilling to take a more nuanced and balanced view of society/economic life.
That was bitchin’ Karl. They hurled themselves against you like flotsam against a light house, and still you shone.
Now that’s funny!
People are born into differing degrees of advantage, be it through inherited wealth, intelligence, energy, or just plain freedom from physical or mental illness/disability.
I agree with the illness/disability – definitely up to society to look after them. As well as orphans, elderly and people temporarily down on their luck.
However, the people, such as yourself who preach that aspects of society are stuck in cyclical and entrenched state always seem to want to keep them there when someone else comes along and offers real help.
Seems no one actually wants to make a difference except by blanket changes that chucks the baby out with the bathwater. It doesn’t make people feel better about themselves, or increase their productivity or opportunities.
As for Mark Twain, perhaps you better read his biography. One reason I consider him to be a great man is the following:
“Who are the oppressors? The few: the King, the capitalist, and a handful of other overseers and superintendents. Who are the oppressed? The many: the nations of the earth; the valuable personages; the workers; they that make the bread that the soft-handed and idle eat.”
I believe people can be empowered to be untouchable by the few, the King, the capitalist.
How? Education, self-esteem, confidence and empowerment.
In no way, shape, or form is that Libertarianism.
Have to fall back on a proverb; because it sums it up so well.
“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.”
My proposal for a co-operative to take on the “labour-hire vultures” leans more towards “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need”.
Where it differs is that you must still do the best that you can to improve what you do and what you can be. Can’t have a bunch of car assembly workers sitting around getting drunk on Vodka.
Education is the key. But as someone else once said, I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
Hmmm… I don’t hide who I am.
To the person who has levelled personal “anonymous” abuse through my blog’s contact page – I am in IT, have about 9 years in Internet consulting; guess what – I can track your IP – which I can trace to your ISP and then redirect to the appropriate people.
Since I have actually had death/violence threats for my opinions before, not too phased by your meaningless drivel. After all my comparisons of Adolf Hitler and Brian Tamaki were pretty emotive and ignorant Destiny goons had to react the only way they know how and call me at my private unlisted number.
But as this is the only place I have expressed certain view points I know it was a reader of this blog. How about you put your balls where your mouth is (or fingers in this case) and actually respond in an open forum where your points can be discussed?
And in response to your assumption; I am not jewish! And no – I am not a National supporter, nor do I have it in for Unions; although I believe they can be more constructive.
(for the other members of this community – sorry to the rest of you – there is always one rotten apple)
[lprent: Why bother putting it on here? Just send details and/or a link to me via e-mail (it is in the Contacts above). It is trivial to run an IP against the database and I can take much more direct action if it is any commentator here. I hate that kind of crap.
All of the people here are aware of tracing IP's. I use it on trolls all of the time whilst banning them. That is why I think it is unlikely to be one of our contributors - they aren't that stupid. It could be a lurker in which case I'll dig out whatever info I have to help lay a complaint to the ISP.
Mind you, all of that being said - you are pretty irritating - I tend to skip your comments when scanning because you often sound like you are talking to yourself.]
Ah… the power of the sysop. Reminds me of the good old BBS days when men were men, and monkeys danced in carnivals on street corners in pink tutus.
I put it here because I was wondering how the hell they thought I might be Jewish and pro-National. Seems an appropriate place. Had hoped they might fess up and actually come out with some real arguments.
The name Karl Rohde is about an un-Jewish as you can get.
Anyway – ’nuff said.
And I would prefer to be irritating than the alternative; most of my generation would vote with their feet, but never squeak a word of complaint.
And exactly what is wrong with talking to one’s self? Some of the greatest minds in history did it regularly.
[lprent: I didn't say it was bad behavior (that tends to have a short residency here). I said it was irritating, but that just means skip scanning. The anon's tend to never 'fess up - you usually have to track them back to their lair and educate them. I'm prohibited by law from educating their systems that ways that I used to.]
Karl, I didn’t see your post until this morning. Great idea and I hope you get the chance to have a bash. You might have trouble finding people who will be interested though, given that it’s essentially a gamble, and despite your admonitions people can’t just go about improving their lot, as it always comes with risks and people do, after all, have to provide for their families and such. Intersting that you conceed it’s not actually about ‘personal choice’, ‘ownership’, ‘empowerment’ or ‘opportunity’, though, it is about risk.
Interesting that we’re the moaners here, and not you. Apart from one constructive post you’ve been moaning for quite some time. Dressing it up with quotes and positive language doesn’t change the message, unfortunately. And at the end of the day, what you want to do might or might not help 30 people. What we’ve been on about isn’t so limited in scope.
And you also are in a prepetual state of denial about society – I think Tane summed it up very will with his comment that you make “the mistake of assuming that ‘anyone can beat the odds’ means ‘everyone can beat the odds’“.
What we’ve been on about isn’t so limited in scope.
That is completely incorrect. The only things that will occur from the proposed legislation is a) the workers will remain unskilled and vulnerable; b) they may be out of a job because the firms in question decide the cash cow is no longer worth it and reduce their workforce to balance it.
At least trying to get them to upskill and take control so they are not so vulnerable is moving forward and not sideways.
As for conceding it is about risk; risk is a big part of all growth. Doesn’t detract from the fact if you teach people to be self-sufficient and valuable from an employment perspective they feel better about themselves, they are less likely to be put into vulnerable positions and they will get paid more.
I also dispute that I am moaning. I am pushing an ideology that I strongly believe will assist the vulnerable workers and the country as a whole to become more wealthy as a nation. A wealthy nation is better able to support it’s vulnerable members. We are no longer a wealthy nation, and have not been for a very long time.
Just giving them a pay rise does not protect them long term. And they are already entitled to holiday pay as casual workers. As for sick leave; that is an issue across 90% of the workforce – employers such as myself who give unlimited sick leave are few and far between in this country.
Anyway – the offer of assistance is there; happy to spend time with a group of people who to want take action. But I am not holding my breath that even 10 can be found.
I am still waiting on my 30 people who don’t want to be treated like shit by the “labour-hire vultures”.
You can contact me via my blog.
I will even start with just 10 of you.
Oh… too busy watching American Idol… maybe next year then.