web analytics
The Standard
Advertising

Blood sport

Written By: - Date published: 8:23 am, March 28th, 2012 - 48 comments
Categories: ACC, Judith Collins - Tags: , ,

Judith Collins has twice told the Prime Minister that she didn’t leak Bronwyn Pullar’s information. But who else could have? The internecine fighting within National is heating up with Michelle Boag saying “When you can’t send a communication to a Government minister without fearing that the privacy of that communication is going to be breached, that’s very, very dangerous.” This is going to end badly for someone.

48 comments on “Blood sport”

  1. Carol 1

    So, am I right in concluding that all the people who received the email have stated they didn’t leak it to the media? If so, then someone is lying, either about linking the email to the media directly or giving/sending a copy to someone else.

    Will the liar be able to not blink under pressure?

  2. I understand that ACC has already done a sweep of its email system and confirmed that neither Judge nor Stewart forwarded Boag’s email.  Collins should have a sweep done on her office’s system so that the same amount of certainty can be achieved.

    • No certainty is possible. There are many ways of copying/forwarding emails with varying degrees of dectectability.

      For example, you could take a picture of an email that’s onscreen and send via personal cellphone.

      • mickysavage 2.1.1

        Surely Petey you should rule out that which you can rule out.

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.2

        For example, you could take a picture of an email that’s onscreen and send via personal cellphone.

        As if mobile phone messages aren’t stored and can’t be checked….

        • Reality Bytes 2.1.2.1

          lol so true. A digital camera with SD storage only (which you then remove and hide) would make more sense. Pete has a fair point, but ironically his suggestion would be just as dangerous as email. Funny as the irony is, I think many people struggle with this IT security stuff, and to be fair Pete was half-way there. Heck look at the fiasco by our elected officials trying to show off their understanding of the sky-net law.

          All the more reason I don’t think this government will make it to three years. Someone somewhere doing something naughty is BOUND to stuff up with IT security and get in the shit. I mean we’re barely into the first year and already we have a shitstorm brewing. There’s plenty of incidents like this occurring all the time by supposed intelligence experts in other countries. And I seriously doubt our politicians are as savvy as the cyber-crime unit in UK etc.

      • Rosemary 2.1.3

        Wormtongue – your wisdom is just overpowering.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 2.2

      If the only assurance Key has got out of Collins was that it “didn’t come from her office” that logically begs the question “so where did you send it from?” The fact that he asked her twice speaks volumes.

      • Pascal's bookie 2.2.1

        Raises the queston bro, raises.

        You did beg the question that she sent it though, by way of an example ;)

        • +1

          Begging the question is when you make an argument for something that assumes an unproven premise that would validate your argument.

          • Jasper 2.2.1.1.1

            [Deleted. While Matt posts under his real name… I’m not letting you do that…RL]

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 2.2.1.2

          A learning moment – thanks :)

          • Rosemary 2.2.1.2.1

            You’re right in this case, Kotahi Tane Huna, to say “begs the question”. Collins said the email wasn’t sent from her office, so, the question begged is where did Collins send it from? You’re right to say this.

            “Begging the question is when you make an argument for something that assumes an unproven premise that would validate your argument.”

            Collins’ argument is that she nor her staff were responsible for sending the email full-stop – this is what she wants people to believe. But she bases her position on the unproven premise that she or her staff did not send the email from anywhere else i.e. she leads people to believe that when she says “office” she means people, not premises. The assumption that is unproved is that she or her staff did not send the email from premises other than her office. So, you are right to say “this begs the question where did Collins send the email from?” You and MW are both right.

            I don’t think Collins going down over this could ever be beaten by anything else that could possibly happen to the Nactoids between now and the next election. Nothing could get close. It would be pure art.

    • deuto 2.3

      Collins’ performance in question time yesterday was interesting and worth watching – very uptight.

      In answering Grant Robertson’s supplementary questions under Question2, Collins stated that she was “100% certain, absolutely” that the leak did not come from her office and that only she and one staff member had seen it. The staff member sent it to the ACC chair and ceo only as directed by Collins. http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/12049

      In relation to Boag’s latest (link in post above), in answering Andrew Little’s later questions (Question 9) Collins also now appears to have tried to preempt Boag’s contention that the email was for the Minister only by stating that anyone who sent communications to the Minister on ACC could expect that the communication would be sent to ACC … that is what Ministers do, or words to that effect in her response to Little’s first supplementary question. http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/12056

      She certainly likes to live dangerously!

      .

      • deuto 2.3.1

        Question time today should also be interesting with Mallard’s question 4 –

        “Hon TREVOR MALLARD to the Minister for ACC: Does she stand by her answers to all supplementary questions to Oral Questions No. 2 and No. 9 yesterday”.

        Does he have something up his sleeve? Just hope he doesn’t blow it. I was impressed with Robertson’s handling of the issue yesterday and also Little’s. Clear and to the point questions and well-manouvered in the supplementaries.

        • ianmac 2.3.1.1

          I think Trevor’s strategy was to get some very careful questions and the answers from Judith, on the record. If at a later date information comes to hand that disputes Judith’s answers, then she might be in trouble. Of course Trevor might have some info which makes it worthwhile to develop this line. Tomorrow?

    • Ross 2.4

      Who says the info was sent in the form of an email…it could have been done verbally with no record of who supplied the info.

      • Jasper 2.4.1

        [deleted]

        [lprent: We’re interested in your opinions and we’re not interested in being a cut’n’paste repository for opinion already up on other sites as is explained in the policy. If you want people to read something, write something about it, put in one or more smallish quotes making it clear with quote, blockquotes, or italics what is their text, and put in a link. The idea is that what you say will be sufficient to raise other readers interest and draw them to the original post. It is what hyperlinks were invented for.

        Of course that does mean that you have to become more than a paste tool and have to think about how to entice people to look at something without simply being a blunt instrument and dumping it into their bandwidth. But don’t worry, the brain exercise will do you good and may even help you with your other personal issues.

        Your comment it appeared to be a complete dump of one of Whale’s posts and I couldn’t distinguish what if any of your own comment you’d left. So the whole thing got deleted. ]

  3. Blue 3

    I think Crusher is confident that she covered her tracks well enough that the email will never be traced back to her even if there is an enquiry.

    She likes to live dangerously, if that is the case. John Key had better hope she knows what she’s doing. At the moment it seems she’s better at crushing ministerial careers than cars.

    • rosy 3.1

      Boag is also saying she expected the email to be seen by Collins only. Not to be forwarded – even asked if it would be secure before she sent it.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 3.2

      Its simple the email was PRINTED and passed on to the PMs office who coordinate this sort of thing. One of Keys media advisors then passed it onto a tame journalist.
      All printed , nothing emailed so it cant be traced.
      This is what the PMs office do . They run these sort of media disinformation campaigns.

      “A totally separate body, the Office of the Prime Minister, also advises the Prime Minister: it is the primary point of responsibility for managing political issues and relationships with other political parties and for providing administrative and media support

      The ministers office only do factual stuff. ie today there is story about school kids sprained ankles and ACC. That would have been organised by Collins and her crew.

      • NickS 3.2.1

        Actually, it can be traced. Printers leave ink fingerprints on stuff printed from them, along with various accidental indicators, and then there’s human fingerprints.

    • NickS 3.3

      Unless she used an anonymous remailer, tor or a dodgy eastern EU/Russian proxy service, it’s not that hard to trace, it just requires court subpoenas for IP address to be sent to the relevant companies.

    • Rosemary 3.4

      Give it time. Collins surely must have sent the email. I have a good feeling about this.

  4. Bored 4

    Its all very squalid over on the Right side of the House (I could say currently but it seems the normal state of play)…where the Feck has Shearer been on this little fiasco?

    • Pascal's bookie 4.1

      I’m glad he’s staying out of it.

      Goff would have been in like flynn, at the speculatin stage, and distracting the discourse.

      Better to let 2nd and 3rd tier types hand out the shovels. Doesn’t matter if they get things wrong, the focus will stay on the minister.

      • Pete George 4.1.1

        I agree, Shearer is better keeping out of it.

        And the 2nd and 3rd tier types would be better to not overplay their hands, but they probably will. The number of calls for resignations far exceeds the number of actual resignations, the “wall of sound” approach seems to be favoured over picking the important fights.

        Governments mostly self destruct in their own time.

        • Pascal's bookie 4.1.1.1

          I view it to be something more like criminal prosecutions. They don’t always result in a guilty verdict. That doesn’t mean the case wasn’t worth taking. We learn something from a not guilty verdict.

          Oppositions are supposed to hold the government to account. That means going after them hard when it looks like something is wrong, if there is nothing wrong, that will be brought to light.

          If the opposition only goes hard when they know for sure that something bad has happened, then much that is bad will be overlooked, and never found out.

  5. Pascal's bookie 5

    I’m glad Collins invited everyone to speculate.

    Maybe those crack Labour party cyber-ninjas that STOLE @DRBRASH’s EMAILS!!ELEVENTYFUCK!! did it.

    Also

    Remember when McCully was busted using his personal email systems for work related stuff?

    Yeah, you do.

  6. Jim Nald 6

    oh dear oh dear oh dear ….. reckon that behind the scenes, the question will swiftly shift from ‘whether’ or ‘who’ to ‘how’

    looks like this could be material for a dvd on national’s hollow women

  7. Jasper 7

    Haha! This is great! Old enemies going into battle, Crusher versus Boag(an)! Boagan’s feeling a bit cocky & she’s trying to clean out the old school conservatives, Blinglish, BrownLee, Collins, Muzza, Smith, Williamson ect …. Bad blood going back years and if this plays out … with a bit of luck it will be the catalyst to destroy this government! The funny thing is PinoKeyo doesn’t have a f%$k’n clue how to control people in his cabinet & party that don’t support him! With the number of f^%k ups so far this year and a stagnant economy, high unemployment, 153,000 people have left the country since the Nact’s have being in government, gifting Fletchers $9Billion+ to build 70 temporary houses in Christchurch, giving bucket loads of cash to prop up Corporate Welfare in the building of prisons at $280Million+ a pop as well as the service contracts to SERCO, Spotless, Fletchers and 10’s of millions to consultants to stitch up these deals …. one scandal after another, Canterbury Finance $1.8Billion for less than $380M return, and Blinglish being caught out offering to sell SOE’s to Asian investors for 20% less than it is being offered to New Zealanders! This kind of behaviour demonstrates the incompetence of PinoKeyo & his merry band of idiots in his government which is more likely to humiliate & cause major embarrassment to the Maori party & Dunne which can give cause for the to consider them jump ship when they see the Nact coalition starting to sink! Banksey’s due to have a visit to court for his dodgy dealings at Hujlich Fund … being a director & signing off a dodgy prospectus! I’m looking forward to new elections 2013!!

    • starlight 7.1

      Not a pretty fiscally responsible picture, english still claims $900 pw accomodation allowance for his ‘home’ in dipton,when it is in a trust,english also being told by the treasury that he wasnt acting in accordance to the retail deposit scheme in dealing with the scf ,so english changed the rules and conditions,
      terms of the retail deposit scheme,the rest is history.
      All this information can be found on treasury and the national party internet site.

  8. muzza 8

    These people are running our farken country…It if was not serious, it would be very bleeden funny!

  9. tsmithfield 9

    I think the assumption that only a limited number of people has access to the e-mail is not neccessarilly correct.

    I assume that Boag would have CC’d anything she had sent back to Fuller. Fuller, by her own admission was firing off e-mails to anyone she thought could help. Who knows how many e-mails she sent away, and whether that was limited to the ACC and the government. Therefore, it is quite possible that the e-mail from Boag could have ended up in the possession of considerably more people than is being considered here.

    • deuto 9.1

      TS – I think you mean “Pullar” not “Fuller”.

      Natasha Fuller is one of the beneficiaries whose details were leaked by Minister Bennett and her case is still pending for possible legal action!

      LOL

  10. All of this is an example of ‘shtrong,shtable govment’ ‘yeh right’

  11. Draco T Bastard 11

    “When you can’t send a communication to a Government minister without fearing that the privacy of that communication is going to be breached, that’s very, very dangerous.”

    All communication with a government minister should, of course, be public as it allows us to hold our servants to account.

  12. Ross 12

    It’s pretty obvious that Collins can’t stand Boag, with the former saying:

    “The fact is it [the email] also came from Ms Boag, so there are possibilities.”

    Seems as if Collins is trying to defame Boag.

  13. felix 13

    I see John Judge has now denied it.

    The plot thickens.

  14. Treetop 14

    Why did Boag email Collins?

    1. Because ACC made derogatory comments about Pullar’s 1 December 2011 ACC meeting.
    2. Because Smith had not adhered to cabinet rules writing 2 – 4 letters.
    3. Because of Boag and Puller knowing about 6752 breaches of Privacy and that Pullar had not destroyed the spread sheet.
    4. Boag wanted Collins to go to ACC.

    Interesting that Boag wanted to know if the email link was secure but stupid of Boag as she must have known that Collins would go to ACC.

    Did Boag think that the matter could be handled internally/covertly between Collins and ACC?
    If she did, Boag has the morals of an alley cat.

    Interesting that the 1 December 2011 ACC meeting was about two weeks after a general election.

    • Ross 14.1

      Well, Collins is the Minister of ACC. Boag may have reasoned that Collins couldn’t deny she was aware of the problem with Pullar, a denial which Collins may have been able to make had not Boag informed her.

    • Treetop 14.2

      Meant to say about a week after the general election.

  15. Ross 15

    Judith Collins apparently printed out a copy of the email. Why she would do that God only knows.

    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8442683/acc-minister-printed-leaked-email

Important links

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Recognizing Palestine: The European Parliament Votes
    Last week I wrote a blog drawing attention to Sweden’s formal recognition of the state of Palestine (the second Western state to do so after Iceland).  That move has created ripples throughout the international community. In recent months the parliaments… ...
    GreensBy Kennedy Graham MP
    3 days ago
  • Recognizing Palestine: The European Parliament Votes
    Last week I wrote a blog drawing attention to Sweden’s formal recognition of the state of Palestine (the second Western state to do so after Iceland).  That move has created ripples throughout the international community. In recent months the parliaments… ...
    GreensBy Kennedy Graham MP
    3 days ago
  • Recognizing Palestine: The European Parliament Votes
    Last week I wrote a blog drawing attention to Sweden’s formal recognition of the state of Palestine (the second Western state to do so after Iceland).  That move has created ripples throughout the international community. In recent months the parliaments… ...
    GreensBy Kennedy Graham MP
    3 days ago
  • Minister has work to do over Xmas
    Red flags raised in a multi-agency review into how Phillip Smith was able to flee the country highlight the inadequacies of those very same agencies not having red flags in place that would have notified them of his plans, says… ...
    3 days ago
  • Minister has work to do over Xmas
    Red flags raised in a multi-agency review into how Phillip Smith was able to flee the country highlight the inadequacies of those very same agencies not having red flags in place that would have notified them of his plans, says… ...
    3 days ago
  • Minister has work to do over Xmas
    Red flags raised in a multi-agency review into how Phillip Smith was able to flee the country highlight the inadequacies of those very same agencies not having red flags in place that would have notified them of his plans, says… ...
    3 days ago
  • Gerry Brownlee’s revolving airport door story
    A new report shows Gerry Brownlee is the latest Cabinet Minister to have contracted the infectious tell-porkies-until-you-are-caught disease, Labour’s Chief Whip Chris Hipkins says. “A Civil Aviation Report out today shows that despite being an extremely recognisable figure, Gerry Brownlee… ...
    3 days ago
  • Gerry Brownlee’s revolving airport door story
    A new report shows Gerry Brownlee is the latest Cabinet Minister to have contracted the infectious tell-porkies-until-you-are-caught disease, Labour’s Chief Whip Chris Hipkins says. “A Civil Aviation Report out today shows that despite being an extremely recognisable figure, Gerry Brownlee… ...
    3 days ago
  • Govt spend on transport out of step with reality
    The National Government is planning to allocate ever increasing amounts of taxpayer funding to build expensive new motorways despite record numbers of New Zealanders flocking to buses and trains, said the Green Party. The Government released its Government Policy Statement… ...
    GreensBy Julie Anne Genter MP
    4 days ago
  • Govt spend on transport out of step with reality
    The National Government is planning to allocate ever increasing amounts of taxpayer funding to build expensive new motorways despite record numbers of New Zealanders flocking to buses and trains, said the Green Party. The Government released its Government Policy Statement… ...
    GreensBy Julie Anne Genter MP
    4 days ago
  • Solar homes stymied by Govt inaction
    Government inaction is allowing the big power companies to discourage the nascent solar power sector, the Green Party said today. Green Party MP Gareth Hughes launched a petition today calling on the Government to empower the Electricity Authority to act… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes MP
    4 days ago
  • Foreign buyers for iconic island must add value
    Labour will look very closely at any Overseas Investment Office application to purchase Pakatoa Island if it is not bought by a Kiwi, says Labour’s Land information Spokesperson Stuart Nash. “Pakatoa is an iconic island in the middle of Hauraki… ...
    4 days ago
  • Way opening for April Sun in Cuba
    The United States of America’s President’s historic announcement yesterday to restore diplomatic ties with Cuba should be applauded by the New Zealand Government. The announcement marks a turning point in more than five decades of hostility between the two countries… ...
    GreensBy Kennedy Graham MP
    4 days ago
  • Minister ducking for cover over ‘Diplomat Case’
    Apparently the Ministerial Inquiry into what now seems to be being referred to as ‘The Diplomat Case’ ( I have a few other names for it) has been completed and is in front of Foreign Affairs Minister McCully. Initial Reports seem to… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    4 days ago
  • Energy users need answers on Vector share plans
    Energy Minister Simon Bridges needs to stop ducking for cover about whether or not the Government will support plans to nationalise and then privatise $2.1 billion of shares in the Auckland Electricity Consumer Trust, Labour's Energy spokesperson Stuart Nash says. “It… ...
    5 days ago
  • Turning up the heat on working conditions
    A “Jobs That Count” campaign has the full support of Labour, the party’s Labour Relations spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. Organised by the Meat Workers Union, the campaign aims to put the spotlight on job insecurity in the meat processing industry. ...
    5 days ago
  • Biosecurity it’s everyone’s responsibility
    Biosecurity costs New Zealand millions of dollars in attempting pest eradication and much more in ongoing management of pests in farming, horticulture, beekeeping and conservation, as well as in our own backyards and recreation areas. More work must happen at… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    5 days ago
  • Failure to diversify puts prosperity at risk
    Beyond the news that a long-promised surplus is unlikely, further embarrassment is hidden in the fine print of the half year economic and fiscal update, Labour says. "National’s failure to rebalance the economy is further exposed in projections from its… ...
    5 days ago
  • Ombudsman probe targets Ministerial integrity
    John Key is on notice that the entrenched cynical and manipulative abuse of official information requests by his Government will no longer be tolerated, Labour’s Open Government spokesperson Clare Curran says. “The announcement by the Ombudsman of a wide-ranging review… ...
    6 days ago
  • Bill English’s face is redder than his books
    The Government owes New Zealanders an apology for failing to deliver the surplus it spent four years and two election campaigns promising, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Bill English’s face is redder than the Crown accounts. This is the… ...
    6 days ago
  • Is the Health Minister accountable to the public? He doesn’t seem to thin...
    Lately I’ve been involved in a sort of farcical standoff with the Health Minister, who seems to be under the illusion that I have no right to ask questions about conflicts involving Health Promotion Agency Board member Katherine Rich, and… ...
    GreensBy Kevin Hague MP
    6 days ago
  • Irresponsible tax cuts lead to seventh successive deficit
    National's borrowing to pay for cutting the top tax rate was irresponsible and will likely lead to a seventh successive deficit, the Green Party said today. Treasury have forecast a $572 million deficit this year in its Half Year Economic… ...
    GreensBy Russel Norman MP
    6 days ago
  • Irresponsible tax cuts lead to seventh successive deficit
    National's borrowing to pay for cutting the top tax rate was irresponsible and will likely lead to a seventh successive deficit, the Green Party said today. Treasury have forecast a $572 million deficit this year in its Half Year Economic… ...
    GreensBy Russel Norman MP
    6 days ago
  • Minister closes down dissent on climate change
    Minister closes down dissent on climate change In a threatening letter to Maori leaders, Minister for Climate Change Tim Groser says he will be requiring future international delegations to toe the party line, Labour’s Climate Change spokesperson Megan Woods says.… ...
    6 days ago
  • Heartfelt sympathy for Sydneysiders
    The Labour Party has offered its heartfelt sympathy to the people of Sydney after the hostage situation in the city, says Labour’s Acting leader Grant Robertson.  “Our thoughts are with all those who went through this horrific and traumatic experience. ...
    6 days ago
  • Farewell at Phillipstown
    Last Wednesday, I attended the farewell for Tony Simpson, Principal of Phillipstown School. It was a very emotional event where many of us in the large crowd shed tears. Bagpipes and tiny tamariki performing kapahaka brought the house down and… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    1 week ago
  • Farewell at Phillipstown
    Last Wednesday, I attended the farewell for Tony Simpson, Principal of Phillipstown School. It was a very emotional event where many of us in the large crowd shed tears. Bagpipes and tiny tamariki performing kapahaka brought the house down and… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    1 week ago
  • The CIA Torture Report
    Earlier this week, the United States Select Committee on Intelligence released the Committee Study of the Central Intelligence Agency’s Detention and Interrogation Program.  The report, which was five years in the making, looked into the CIA’s interrogation techniques from 2001… ...
    GreensBy Kennedy Graham MP
    1 week ago
  • The CIA Torture Report
    Earlier this week, the United States Select Committee on Intelligence released the Committee Study of the Central Intelligence Agency’s Detention and Interrogation Program.  The report, which was five years in the making, looked into the CIA’s interrogation techniques from 2001… ...
    GreensBy Kennedy Graham MP
    1 week ago
  • Haere Rā 2014
    We’ve almost reached the end of the Parliamentary year so I wanted to take a moment to reflect on some of my highlights of the term in this blog post. It’s been an absolutely hectic year juggling an election campaign… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes MP
    1 week ago
  • Labour applauds High Court decision on Ruataniwha
    Today’s decision by the High Court on the Ruataniwha scheme is a victory for NewZealand’s environmental groups, says Labour’s Conservation spokesperson RuthDyson. ...
    1 week ago
  • A welfare system for the 21st Century
    Today Child Poverty Action Group released a background paper on ‘The complexities of ‘relationship’ in the welfare system and the consequences for children.‘ The report includes 16 recommendations to modernise our welfare system which is no longer fit for the… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    1 week ago
  • Welfare system out of date and out of touch
    A new Child Poverty Action Group report released today highlights another example of how our outmoded social welfare system is harming kids, says Labour’s Social Development Spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni.  “The complexities of how a ‘relationship’ is defined in the welfare… ...
    1 week ago

Public service advertisements by The Standard

Current CO2 level in the atmosphere