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	<title>Comments on: Bursting the bauble</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gone By 2009</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-2/#comment-19820</link>
		<dc:creator>Gone By 2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19820</guid>
		<description>Dodgy dealings?  &lt;strong&gt;[deleted]&lt;/strong&gt;.

&lt;strong&gt;[lprent: goodbye dave]&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dodgy dealings?  <strong>[deleted]</strong>.</p>
<p><strong>[lprent: goodbye dave]</strong></p>
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		<title>By: outofbed</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-2/#comment-19818</link>
		<dc:creator>outofbed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19818</guid>
		<description>Seems a strange strategy for National 
Have ago at a billionaire  Labour supporter in an election year
seems a bit short sighted.
You can bet Owen and Helen didn&#039;t talk about the weather

And now the focus can legitimately go on Nationals dodgy dealings

Personaly I wish the media would focus on the difference between all the parties policies or lack of them
Isn&#039;t that what they are there for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems a strange strategy for National<br />
Have ago at a billionaire  Labour supporter in an election year<br />
seems a bit short sighted.<br />
You can bet Owen and Helen didn&#8217;t talk about the weather</p>
<p>And now the focus can legitimately go on Nationals dodgy dealings</p>
<p>Personaly I wish the media would focus on the difference between all the parties policies or lack of them<br />
Isn&#8217;t that what they are there for?</p>
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		<title>By: gobsmacked</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-2/#comment-19810</link>
		<dc:creator>gobsmacked</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19810</guid>
		<description>It should be on the TV3 website soon.

Dan is quite right. Glenn was totally at ease, no PR parroting, just saying what he thought. He was happy to relay that KORRUPT conversation he had with KLARK about being in KABINET, which turns out to be ... absolutely nothing. 

Meanwhile, at least one journalist has worked out there are questions National is hiding from: here&#039;s Colin Espiner&#039;s blog:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/politics/2008/02/22/time-to-tell-us-about-your-donors-national

Next week: Nats&#039; big donors front up to be interviewed on Campbell Live. Or ... not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be on the TV3 website soon.</p>
<p>Dan is quite right. Glenn was totally at ease, no PR parroting, just saying what he thought. He was happy to relay that KORRUPT conversation he had with KLARK about being in KABINET, which turns out to be &#8230; absolutely nothing. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, at least one journalist has worked out there are questions National is hiding from: here&#8217;s Colin Espiner&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/politics/2008/02/22/time-to-tell-us-about-your-donors-national" rel="nofollow">http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/politics/2008/02/22/time-to-tell-us-about-your-donors-national</a></p>
<p>Next week: Nats&#8217; big donors front up to be interviewed on Campbell Live. Or &#8230; not.</p>
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		<title>By: outofbed</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-2/#comment-19809</link>
		<dc:creator>outofbed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19809</guid>
		<description>Yes I would love to see it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I would love to see it</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19806</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Just watched Owen Glenn with Campbell Live. What a great fellow. Charismatic, hardworking, built himself up from nothing, articulate but low-key, a multi-millionaire businessman, ... you would think a best mate of Key. No wonder the Nats are so keen to put him down... a doer  who very succinctly and without drama says that Labour is doing a great job, and how much he dislikes the school-ground pettiness of much of NZ politics. Could someone please load the interview for anyone who missed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just watched Owen Glenn with Campbell Live. What a great fellow. Charismatic, hardworking, built himself up from nothing, articulate but low-key, a multi-millionaire businessman, &#8230; you would think a best mate of Key. No wonder the Nats are so keen to put him down&#8230; a doer  who very succinctly and without drama says that Labour is doing a great job, and how much he dislikes the school-ground pettiness of much of NZ politics. Could someone please load the interview for anyone who missed it.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Pilott</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19362</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Pilott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19362</guid>
		<description>Duly noted!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duly noted!</p>
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		<title>By: insider</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19356</link>
		<dc:creator>insider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19356</guid>
		<description>MAtthew

I never said this was of any great consequence. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MAtthew</p>
<p>I never said this was of any great consequence. <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Pilott</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19354</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Pilott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19354</guid>
		<description>Gobsmacked - this is the line that raised my ire:  

&quot;&lt;i&gt;It raises more questions at present than it answers and it is time Glenn gave answers.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

I&#039;ll calm down when she demands that Bell Gully, McVeigh and everyone else &quot;gave answers&quot; as to who all the Nats backers were.  She&#039;s a disgrace.

Insider - if you&#039;re right then Williams has put his foot in it a wee bit. If not, then it&#039;s equally inconsequential.  Either way, given that Labour is declearing it, there&#039;s very little substance, and seems to show how desperate National is to divert the house from discussing policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gobsmacked &#8211; this is the line that raised my ire:  </p>
<p>&#8220;<i>It raises more questions at present than it answers and it is time Glenn gave answers.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll calm down when she demands that Bell Gully, McVeigh and everyone else &#8220;gave answers&#8221; as to who all the Nats backers were.  She&#8217;s a disgrace.</p>
<p>Insider &#8211; if you&#8217;re right then Williams has put his foot in it a wee bit. If not, then it&#8217;s equally inconsequential.  Either way, given that Labour is declearing it, there&#8217;s very little substance, and seems to show how desperate National is to divert the house from discussing policy.</p>
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		<title>By: gobsmacked</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19345</link>
		<dc:creator>gobsmacked</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19345</guid>
		<description>From Audrey Young&#039;s blog:

&quot;It is hard to get through to Glenn to ask him directly ... his personal assistant has been engaged every time I have rung.&quot;

And yet John Key is right there in the building with you. 

&quot;It is important to get fuller disclosure on this, not least to ensure that mud does not stick where it is not warranted.&quot;

It is important to get full disclosure on John Key&#039;s donations to the National Party, not least to ensure that mud does not stick where it is not warranted.

&quot;If Glenn is not the NZ First donor it should be simple enough to say so.&quot;

If Key has made no anonymous donations to National it should be simple enough to say so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Audrey Young&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p>&#8220;It is hard to get through to Glenn to ask him directly &#8230; his personal assistant has been engaged every time I have rung.&#8221;</p>
<p>And yet John Key is right there in the building with you. </p>
<p>&#8220;It is important to get fuller disclosure on this, not least to ensure that mud does not stick where it is not warranted.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is important to get full disclosure on John Key&#8217;s donations to the National Party, not least to ensure that mud does not stick where it is not warranted.</p>
<p>&#8220;If Glenn is not the NZ First donor it should be simple enough to say so.&#8221;</p>
<p>If Key has made no anonymous donations to National it should be simple enough to say so.</p>
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		<title>By: insider</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19343</link>
		<dc:creator>insider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19343</guid>
		<description>Matthew

the 1993 law was in my view clear as Graeme Edgeler has demonstrated, and backed up by recent case law - Peters v Clarkson. 

I would have thought that if anyone should have been clear what the rules are it is the person primarily responsible for the party&#039;s finances (if he was doing his job properly). I have a similar view of the NAts &#039;forgetting&#039; to pay GST. 

I think Mike Williams has a history of saying what is convenient at the time and worrying about the clean up later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew</p>
<p>the 1993 law was in my view clear as Graeme Edgeler has demonstrated, and backed up by recent case law &#8211; Peters v Clarkson. </p>
<p>I would have thought that if anyone should have been clear what the rules are it is the person primarily responsible for the party&#8217;s finances (if he was doing his job properly). I have a similar view of the NAts &#8216;forgetting&#8217; to pay GST. </p>
<p>I think Mike Williams has a history of saying what is convenient at the time and worrying about the clean up later.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Pilott</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19335</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Pilott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19335</guid>
		<description>Audrey Young was enough of a tosser to demand answers from Glenn.  With all due respect, who the fuck is she to demand that Glenn give her answers?  (this was actally about NZF, not Labour btw)  If Glenn wants to make a private donation then he&#039;s entitled to.

Insider - I don&#039;t believe the 1993 EFA was as clear as the 2007 iteration - nice that the new law is making things more clear.  Seems the right just loves it, right about now :)  

So you think it&#039;s likely that Williams deliberately lied, as opposed to not considering that it wasn&#039;t a donation under 1993 electoral law? I guess that&#039;s what you&#039;re saying, but it seems...unlikely, to say the least.  Still, a bet-up&#039;s a beat-up, as you do...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Audrey Young was enough of a tosser to demand answers from Glenn.  With all due respect, who the fuck is she to demand that Glenn give her answers?  (this was actally about NZF, not Labour btw)  If Glenn wants to make a private donation then he&#8217;s entitled to.</p>
<p>Insider &#8211; I don&#8217;t believe the 1993 EFA was as clear as the 2007 iteration &#8211; nice that the new law is making things more clear.  Seems the right just loves it, right about now <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   </p>
<p>So you think it&#8217;s likely that Williams deliberately lied, as opposed to not considering that it wasn&#8217;t a donation under 1993 electoral law? I guess that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re saying, but it seems&#8230;unlikely, to say the least.  Still, a bet-up&#8217;s a beat-up, as you do&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: James Kearney</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19332</link>
		<dc:creator>James Kearney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19332</guid>
		<description>Audrey Young&#039;s blog post was a joke. If she&#039;d inserted one single fact in there maybe she&#039;d have some journalistic credibility but her piece read like a facsimile of a National party smear sheet. What passses for journalism these days aye?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Audrey Young&#8217;s blog post was a joke. If she&#8217;d inserted one single fact in there maybe she&#8217;d have some journalistic credibility but her piece read like a facsimile of a National party smear sheet. What passses for journalism these days aye?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Pierson</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19331</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Pierson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19331</guid>
		<description>Adolf. How much do you wnat your wage cut to be under National?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adolf. How much do you wnat your wage cut to be under National?</p>
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		<title>By: insider</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19330</link>
		<dc:creator>insider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19330</guid>
		<description>Matthew

I think the law is clear that you use a commercial rate. Could be mortgage rate, could be the finance rate for business loans (whihc is usually higher and given the status of labour;s finances....) Not hard to work out, partiuclarly if Labour has got commercial loans before. 

Given Mike Williams&#039; behaviour in the past, I don;t think it is too hard a stretch to think he might have lied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew</p>
<p>I think the law is clear that you use a commercial rate. Could be mortgage rate, could be the finance rate for business loans (whihc is usually higher and given the status of labour;s finances&#8230;.) Not hard to work out, partiuclarly if Labour has got commercial loans before. </p>
<p>Given Mike Williams&#8217; behaviour in the past, I don;t think it is too hard a stretch to think he might have lied.</p>
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		<title>By: Adolf Fiinkensein</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/bursting-the-bauble/comment-page-1/#comment-19329</link>
		<dc:creator>Adolf Fiinkensein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1170#comment-19329</guid>
		<description>Man the lifeboats, chaps.  Your ship just got torpedoed by Audrey Young.  The water is icy cold and there&#039;s a force nine gale blowing.  Good luck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man the lifeboats, chaps.  Your ship just got torpedoed by Audrey Young.  The water is icy cold and there&#8217;s a force nine gale blowing.  Good luck</p>
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