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	<title>Comments on: CCDs. Worms perhaps?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: DavidW</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174318</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174318</guid>
		<description>You are damned right that I trust proven science backed up by many experiments with known outcomes when I get on an aeroplane.

I wouldn&#039;t pay to be a guinea pig on a new aircraft design on its maiden flight however.

There seem to have been a number of unpredicted outcomes coming from the climate models, outcomes that in some cases are diametrically opposed to the model&#039;s predictions.  Shoot, if that doesn&#039;t throw some doubt on the model design, nothing does.  Like the plane crashed, do you re-design the plane or send your kids up on the test flight of the duplicate prototype.

Scientists can be so dumb really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are damned right that I trust proven science backed up by many experiments with known outcomes when I get on an aeroplane.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t pay to be a guinea pig on a new aircraft design on its maiden flight however.</p>
<p>There seem to have been a number of unpredicted outcomes coming from the climate models, outcomes that in some cases are diametrically opposed to the model&#8217;s predictions.  Shoot, if that doesn&#8217;t throw some doubt on the model design, nothing does.  Like the plane crashed, do you re-design the plane or send your kids up on the test flight of the duplicate prototype.</p>
<p>Scientists can be so dumb really.</p>
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		<title>By: zelda</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174239</link>
		<dc:creator>zelda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174239</guid>
		<description>What about statistics, are any of the leading &#039;geographers and geologists&#039; sorry climate  scientists  qualified in statistics or have co authors who are?

Mann said he  was &#039;self taught&#039; from a seismologist in statistics. Handy when you are a geologist by training</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about statistics, are any of the leading &#8216;geographers and geologists&#8217; sorry climate  scientists  qualified in statistics or have co authors who are?</p>
<p>Mann said he  was &#8216;self taught&#8217; from a seismologist in statistics. Handy when you are a geologist by training</p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174235</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174235</guid>
		<description>Call it frustration. After you&#039;ve read the same daft opinions on climate change, challenged them, and had them run away saying that asking questions is a bad idea so many times, you get peeved. If they act like children, then I treat them that way. 

BTW: I&#039;m not all that tolerant IRL either. If someone talks to me about a topic then I expect them to be able to talk about it. Otherwise there are other things I could do.

The point is that I can&#039;t write a serious post on climate change without have clone-an-opinion statement commentators descending on them. Frequently you just scan google with the phrases and pop up the same thing all over the web.

These days I mainly write about climate change as established. And CCDs as an interesting phenomenon in their own right. But they&#039;re simply incapable of engaging in actual dialogue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Call it frustration. After you&#8217;ve read the same daft opinions on climate change, challenged them, and had them run away saying that asking questions is a bad idea so many times, you get peeved. If they act like children, then I treat them that way. </p>
<p>BTW: I&#8217;m not all that tolerant IRL either. If someone talks to me about a topic then I expect them to be able to talk about it. Otherwise there are other things I could do.</p>
<p>The point is that I can&#8217;t write a serious post on climate change without have clone-an-opinion statement commentators descending on them. Frequently you just scan google with the phrases and pop up the same thing all over the web.</p>
<p>These days I mainly write about climate change as established. And CCDs as an interesting phenomenon in their own right. But they&#8217;re simply incapable of engaging in actual dialogue.</p>
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		<title>By: prism</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174233</link>
		<dc:creator>prism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174233</guid>
		<description>Every opinion is not of equal value.  (The law of blogger judgement).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every opinion is not of equal value.  (The law of blogger judgement).</p>
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		<title>By: prism</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174232</link>
		<dc:creator>prism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174232</guid>
		<description>Scientists disagreeing - criticising each other, that&#039;s only new to people who have no broad education and no interest in getting one.  For instance heavyweights like Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibniz were involved in heavy dispute with charges of stealing the other&#039;s ideas.

Incidentally, interesting in the present situation of national testing attempting to search and destroy all non-performing students here is a quote from Newton&#039;s life summary, &quot;Newton had a bad start with his schooling; he has been described as having been one of the poorest performing students in the grammar school in which his grandmother had placed him&quot;  He also was a child from a broken home, in that his father had remarried and placed him in another&#039;s care, his grandmother&#039;s, a common event over the years, not recent as appears from some &#039;commontaters&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scientists disagreeing &#8211; criticising each other, that&#8217;s only new to people who have no broad education and no interest in getting one.  For instance heavyweights like Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibniz were involved in heavy dispute with charges of stealing the other&#8217;s ideas.</p>
<p>Incidentally, interesting in the present situation of national testing attempting to search and destroy all non-performing students here is a quote from Newton&#8217;s life summary, &#8220;Newton had a bad start with his schooling; he has been described as having been one of the poorest performing students in the grammar school in which his grandmother had placed him&#8221;  He also was a child from a broken home, in that his father had remarried and placed him in another&#8217;s care, his grandmother&#8217;s, a common event over the years, not recent as appears from some &#8216;commontaters&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174222</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174222</guid>
		<description>Usually called GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out. That is why the models keep moving as they find sources of error and new data.

The problem is that I suspect that many of the CCD &#039;scientists&#039; spend their time reviewing other peoples data and reinterpreting it. Since they start with a precept about what they want and don&#039;t look for errors in it, and fail to get their methodology reviewed  - then they get crap out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Usually called GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out. That is why the models keep moving as they find sources of error and new data.</p>
<p>The problem is that I suspect that many of the CCD &#8216;scientists&#8217; spend their time reviewing other peoples data and reinterpreting it. Since they start with a precept about what they want and don&#8217;t look for errors in it, and fail to get their methodology reviewed  &#8211; then they get crap out.</p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174220</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174220</guid>
		<description>Yeah, my problem about finishing one is that I was always doing a contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, my problem about finishing one is that I was always doing a contract.</p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174217</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174217</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always noticed that CCDs dislike being challenged about their knowledge and understanding of science. 

Yours is the standard response...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always noticed that CCDs dislike being challenged about their knowledge and understanding of science. </p>
<p>Yours is the standard response&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: NickS</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174211</link>
		<dc:creator>NickS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174211</guid>
		<description>Right...

Because we all should be falsely civil to posters and others who have a long-term history of being utter morons. Like certain climate change denialists here and elsewhere. 

So please, get back to your hugboxs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right&#8230;</p>
<p>Because we all should be falsely civil to posters and others who have a long-term history of being utter morons. Like certain climate change denialists here and elsewhere. </p>
<p>So please, get back to your hugboxs.</p>
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		<title>By: jaymam</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174201</link>
		<dc:creator>jaymam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174201</guid>
		<description>Yes mehere, the standard of debate here, especially by lprent, is very poor.
As an LEC member I am disgusted.  I hate to say it but Kiwiblog and Poneke are doing a better job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes mehere, the standard of debate here, especially by lprent, is very poor.<br />
As an LEC member I am disgusted.  I hate to say it but Kiwiblog and Poneke are doing a better job.</p>
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		<title>By: mehere</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174198</link>
		<dc:creator>mehere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174198</guid>
		<description>lprent, have you ever considered engaging commenters on your posts as adults with a differing opinion to yours? Whenever I read your comments it nearly always contains some personal abuse which undermines The Standard as a blog to read for reasoned political comment. Of course, you don&#039;t have much control over what your commenters write, but as a post author and the site admin I thought you might show some better manners towards the guests on your site. You can disagree without making it personal. At least not in your first reply! Go ahead, delete this or tell me I&#039;m illiterate or worse...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lprent, have you ever considered engaging commenters on your posts as adults with a differing opinion to yours? Whenever I read your comments it nearly always contains some personal abuse which undermines The Standard as a blog to read for reasoned political comment. Of course, you don&#8217;t have much control over what your commenters write, but as a post author and the site admin I thought you might show some better manners towards the guests on your site. You can disagree without making it personal. At least not in your first reply! Go ahead, delete this or tell me I&#8217;m illiterate or worse&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: illuminatedtiger</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174189</link>
		<dc:creator>illuminatedtiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174189</guid>
		<description>You cannot get &quot;post graduate qualifications in programming&quot; although you can get a post graduate degree in Computer Science with a focus on computer simulation - an area well utilised throughout climate science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You cannot get &#8220;post graduate qualifications in programming&#8221; although you can get a post graduate degree in Computer Science with a focus on computer simulation &#8211; an area well utilised throughout climate science.</p>
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		<title>By: Galeandra</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174186</link>
		<dc:creator>Galeandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174186</guid>
		<description>You wouldnt fly in plane that has a 10% chance of crashing


But, Zelda, I live on  a planet that has 100% chance of burning. Catch an ice floe and sail to freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You wouldnt fly in plane that has a 10% chance of crashing</p>
<p>But, Zelda, I live on  a planet that has 100% chance of burning. Catch an ice floe and sail to freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: Draco T Bastard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174179</link>
		<dc:creator>Draco T Bastard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174179</guid>
		<description>Yep, you&#039;re still stupid.

Climate change happens, this is correct. What mankind has done is change the parameters of that change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, you&#8217;re still stupid.</p>
<p>Climate change happens, this is correct. What mankind has done is change the parameters of that change.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrei</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/ccds-worms-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-174171</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25889#comment-174171</guid>
		<description>The thing to remember when dealing with computer programs is the old JIJO principle - that would be &lt;b&gt;Junk In&lt;/b&gt;  ==&gt; &lt;b&gt;Junk Out&lt;/b&gt;

mind you having followed these characters careers for some years now, call it morbid fascination if you like, the suspicion arises that   maybe

&lt;b&gt;JI&lt;/b&gt; ==&gt; &lt;b&gt;hockey stick out&lt;/b&gt; and when the expected hockey stick fails to materialize the frustrated remark  concerning reality follows</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing to remember when dealing with computer programs is the old JIJO principle &#8211; that would be <b>Junk In</b>  ==&gt; <b>Junk Out</b></p>
<p>mind you having followed these characters careers for some years now, call it morbid fascination if you like, the suspicion arises that   maybe</p>
<p><b>JI</b> ==&gt; <b>hockey stick out</b> and when the expected hockey stick fails to materialize the frustrated remark  concerning reality follows</p>
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