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Child beating petition falls short

Written By: - Date published: 12:45 pm, April 29th, 2008 - 93 comments
Categories: child discipline, election 2008, families - Tags: , , , , ,

Family First’s petition for a referendum on reversing the amendment to s59 of the Crimes Act that removed the defence of reasonable force for assault on a child (try saying that three times fast) has failed to get enough signatures. It needed 280,275 signatures and seemed to have enough but the Office of the Clerk found many of them were multiple or fake names.

Now, the pro-beaters have 2 months to find the 15,000 extra signatures they need to force a referendum. On the surface, that shouldn’t be hard. Family First has the money to get people out to collect names and polling data from David Farrar’s company Curia to help targeting groups. But it remains to be seen whether they will be able to get so many more names in time, they were already scrapping the barrel to get the names they have and some of the energy must be lost from their campaign after this failure.

93 comments on “Child beating petition falls short”

  1. Steve Pierson 1

    The delay may also raise problems regarding whether the referendum can be run simultaneously with the general election. The election is six and a half months, at most, away. The pro-beaters have two months to get the names they need. The Office of the Clerk then has two months to check they are valid and there are enough of them. The Governor-General then has one month to set a date, which can’t be too soon after for practical reasons.

  2. Matthew Pilott 2

    The question asked was “Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?”

    Would that be the actual question in the (non-binding) referendum?

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but how in Christ’s name would such a mindless Stuff/NZH opinion poll style question be of any use in a referendum?!

  3. Scribe 3

    Steve,

    Your “pro-beaters” language is charming. 265,000+ people signed the petition, and they’re all child abusers according to your language.

    That’s six times the number of people who signed the daylight savings petition that went through by right. Trust me, they won’t have any problem getting another 15,000 signatures, despite your attempts to paint those people signing it as child abusers.

  4. Matthew Pilott 4

    Scribe – you’re the one who implied they’re child abusers, as opposed to beaters. Guess it’s all semantics, but how do you really define that from a ‘loving smack’ and all that bullshit? A loving smack could be pretty damn hard, if you really loved them, right?

  5. Tane 5

    Scribe, I don’t believe for a second that everyone who signed the petition beats their children.

    However, what can not be disputed is that the petition, if successful, will legalise the beating of children including assault with items such as horsewhips.

    It is therefore entirely reasonable to label it a pro-beating petition, and its leaders as the pro-beating lobby, because that is precisely what its effect will be.

  6. Ari 6

    I don’t I’ve seen anyone imply that supporters of s59 are themselves child abusers. (although I’m sure both sides have their extremists who’ll say such stupid things) The real worry however is as Tane said, that with s59 in law, cases of violent child abuse, often using weapons, will be excused under the reasonable force defense- as they have been in the past.

    It’s also mystifying why we should need this special defense for parents, when the law serves perfectly well in cases where victims are far more able to defend themselves, and far less likely to be seriously hurt from the same level of force. If s59 were really necessary, it would apply to everyone, not just children.

  7. Scribe 7

    Tane,

    However, what can not be disputed is that the petition, if successful, will legalise the beating of children including assault with items such as horsewhips.

    Well, for a start, the petition, if successful, would only bring about a non-binding referendum, so I think you’re getting slightly ahead of yourself.

    And any rational person leading this discussion recognises that the use of items like horsewhips is totally unacceptable. No politician would have legislation that would allow such abuse — which that would undoubtedly be. I would imagine people like Family First and the petition’s initiator, Sheryl Savill, would want the use of “weapons” to discipline children prohibited.

    It is therefore entirely reasonable to label it a pro-beating petition, and its leaders as the pro-beating lobby, because that is precisely what its effect will be.

    Am I right in saying you’re a journalist, Tane? If so, write “pro-beating petition” and “pro-beating lobby” in your next story on this topic and see how it works out for ya.

  8. Tane 8

    Well, for a start, the petition, if successful, would only bring about a non-binding referendum

    Clearly. I guess we have different definitions of success.

    I would imagine people like Family First and the petition’s initiator, Sheryl Savill, would want the use of “weapons’ to discipline children prohibited.

    She may, she may not. The goals of the petition seem pretty simple – reverse the amendment to Section 59 of the Crimes Act. Nor does beating require weapons.

    Am I right in saying you’re a journalist, Tane? If so, write “pro-beating petition’ and “pro-beating lobby’ in your next story

    No, I’m not a journalist. But I’ve seen the misleading and loaded term ‘anti-smacking’ used frequently enough to know the media are hardly using neutral language in this debate.

  9. Steve Pierson 9

    Scribe. The effect of the petition is intended to be a reversal of the amendment to s59. before the amendment, beating your kid with a riding crop (or your bare hands) was legal, now it’s not – advocating a return to that state is, therefore, advocating a return to legal child beating.

    Obviously, I’m just talking about the leaders of the petition – not every signatory.

  10. jh 10

    The state has made a one size fits all rule by making smacking a technical offence and that case is helped if you believe that light occasional smacking is harmful. Despite what the Childrens Commisioner maintains about “meta analysis”, that say it is “never ok to smack” that is contradicted by the Otago Multi disciplinary Health and Development Study. People have their own life experience to draw on.

  11. Hillary 11

    I think it does not serve free speech or the left well to label the petition ‘the child beating’ petition. I don’t align myself in any way with Family First – quite the reverse – and will not be signing the petition because of the agenda they represent. But in terms of the repeal of s.59, I think alot of ordinary New Zealanders, myself included, feel quite alienated.

    I don’t defend beating children, which parents sometimes got away with using s.59 as a defence. But clearly beating is not ‘reasonable force’, and how juries could ever have found it was is beyond me.

    To compare the relationship between a parent and a child to any other human relationship is laughable. Children are the source of the greatest joy and the greatest despair possible.

    It’s a shame that s.59 has become so politicised as it detracts from far more important issues. If we are serious about child abuse, addressing alcohol and drug abuse and mental health problems would be far more effetive, but also far more difficult.

  12. Scribe 12

    Tane,

    “Anti-smacking” was Sue Bradford’s own language, so don’t blame the media for using it.

    Steve,

    Beating your kid with a riding crop was not legal, but parents did have a defence of reasonable force. If judges and juries made some very poor decisions, that doesn’t necessarily mean the law needed changing.

    I think the petition supporters, and I’ve spoken to some of them, would like to see some sort of middle ground whereby a smack has no chance of leading to criminal charges while people who use riding crops and bamboo or power cords are punished harshly.

    That, to me, would be a good compromise. In fact, it’s not far from what Chester Borrows suggested.

  13. mike 13

    I stopped reading at “the pro-beaters ”
    There are dickheads at both extremes of this debate. You are quite clearly one extreme SP

  14. randal 14

    either/or again…and again..and again…family first would have more cred if they spent some time working out why New Zealand has a pervading aura of violence and what we can do about it. otherwise just more blather.

  15. Billy 15

    It’s funny, isn’t it Mike. Any time any of our Standardista friends gets accused of being a communist, they point out that being a social democrat doesn’t mean you are a communist. But, if you think parents are in the best position to decide what punishment suits their kids and want to allow a parent to lightly smack their child, there are no such shades. You are a child beater equivalent to someone who beats electrical cord.

  16. Jum 16

    Hillary

    I agree with most of what you say, (1.56pm) especially about Family First, but when a group trivialises a serious piece of law by calling it the ‘anti-smacking bill’ then it encourages like-minded retorts with the ‘child-beating’ petition.

    Who is to say that down the track if the repeal is repealed, ‘they’ won’t want to repeal the outlawing of rape within marriage?

    Family First is even blaming feminists for child abuse. I wasn’t aware incest started in the 70s. Michael Bassett is blaming feminists for the breakdown of the family. I wasn’t aware women had so much power, except in the ability to attract violence.

    Now if there was a bill repealing Family First/Destiny Church/Promisekeepers/religionists which is all about taking away the small hard won freedoms of women and children in the dynamics of family set ups, I’d definitely vote for that.

    Scribe

    You’re saying a smack is a smack is a smack. It is not. It can be a smack or a whack or a hit or a clip or a belt or a bash, by another child, by an older child, by a large woman, by a small woman, by a large man, by a small man…….

  17. Billy 17

    “who beats a kid with electrical cord

  18. Scribe 18

    Jum,

    Check out this link. As I said above, anti-smacking is Bradford’s language. http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR6778.html

    Bloggers and the media should call it what the bill’s author called it, shouldn’t they?

  19. Matthew Pilott 19

    Scribe, unless you think police are not fit to be trusted with the application of our laws, the compromise you propose is already in place.

    Billy – it’s probably more of a reference to the conservative right-wing fundamentalist christian organisers, then the members of the public who were taken in with this talk of a ‘loving smack’ and all that other crap. If parents were perfectly honest, 99% of the time they smack, they do so in anger, after losing their tempers. That’s an attitude we’d do well to change, no?

    It is strong rhetoric, prevalent on both sides of the debate (as is often the case with a highly charged issue); I don’t believe that everyone against the repeal deserves to be called a ‘beater’ – but I will admit to a certain frustration with those that insist the law has done the country ill, with no evidence to back the assertion.

  20. Scribe 20

    Matthew,

    unless you think police are not fit to be trusted with the application of our laws

    Now we’re getting somewhere ;-)

    If parents were perfectly honest, 99% of the time they smack, they do so in anger, after losing their tempers.

    An unscientific assumption, but I’ll let it pass. I think a lot of parents try other methods that don’t work and they often find that a smack on the hand or the bum works, so they use that if other methods fail.

    I agree with you that we need to change the attitude of people, and I think that whoever wins this election should think long and hard about offering parenting classes, especially for first-time parents, to train them.

    People parent based on what they experienced growing up, and if that included physical discipline, and we deem that’s now inappropriate (which it is if violent and premeditated, rather than correctional), then the parents of tomorrow need to be edumacated.

  21. jh 21

    Scirbes right, it is an antismacking bill and that is the issue :the state came down on the side that it is never ok to smack and so dictate how people should behave with their children. When you do that you have to be right or be able to persuade people that you are right.

  22. Ruth 22

    Green MP and bill sponsor Sue Bradford is not surprised at the result, saying people have come to realise there are better ways to bring up children that do not involve violence.

    Bravo Sue Bradford! If you cannot raise and teach a child without resorting to hitting them, you do not deserve the privilege of raising one. And I speak as a mother of 3!

  23. Billy 23

    Sorry, Ruth. Didn’t realise you had three (count ‘em) kids. That obviously makes everyone else’s opinion invalid.

  24. Matthew Pilott 24

    Scribe – “now where getting somewhere?”

    My problem with this is that it seems that police are perfectly adequate to make these judgements on a daily basis with any other number of laws, but not with the disciplining of children. Can you tell me why this law is different?

    To use the most obvious example – a rugby game. Participating won’t get you done for assault, yet it’s not specifically mentioned in the crimes act as an act/activity to be excluded. If you give someone a wee clip in a maul, you might get a card, and a disciplinary hearing. If you king-hit some poor chap you might get arrested (although it’s not that likely), especially if they end in hospital with a wired jaw. However in all this, police excercise discresion. Every action we take could theoretically be seen by police and acted upon. Why must this be treated differently?

    I definitely agree with your other comments – education is the good for people’s. Over and above that, the repeal of S59 is no threat to that, and if it helps change attitudes – keep it! What is to be gained by reenacting a law that allowed for violence in the guise of ‘correction’?

  25. lprent 25

    Scribe was having problems entering this this afternoon with whatever was making the server go AWOL. So he e-mailed it for me to put up.

    Scribe writes

    Hillary,

    Good points.

    It’s a shame that s.59 has become so politicised as it detracts from far more important issues. If we are serious about child abuse, addressing alcohol and drug abuse and mental health problems would be far more effetive, but also far more difficult.

    What’s been lost in this “pro-beating” discussion is the fact that there was a second petition circulated along with the one we’re discussing that called on the Government to urgently examine the causes of child abuse and family breakdown in NZ, or words to that effect. That would be money well spent.

  26. Ruth 26

    Hardly “Billy”.

    What is irritating to many good parents is the fact that the pro-smackers have always said “How many kids do YOU have?” to anyone who supported this law change – as if it is a given that those who have children use pain as punishment.

  27. Linda Axford 27

    From Wikipedia ‘cos I couldn’t remember the details, just that it was a mother of a question:
    “The other referendum held in 1999 asked “Should there be a reform of our Justice system placing greater emphasis on the needs of victims, providing restitution and compensation for them and imposing minimum sentences and hard labour for all serious violent offences?”. This measure passed by 91.78%.”

    aladin

  28. Steve Pierson 28

    Linda. interesting thing about that question, apart from being awfully worded in general was that some voters from the term ‘imposing minimum sentences’ ambiguous – some thought it meant ‘minimial sentences’ and polling staff were not allwoed to give voters any direction as to interpretation of the question (for obvious reasons).

    So it probably would have got even more votes for it without the confusing wording.

    But asking people, essentially, whether they hate crime is like having a referendum on whether you would like a tax cut – it totally ignores the complexities and costs of the choice.

  29. spanner 29

    Just shows you how much both National and Labour care about addressing shameful child abuse statistics! What another sad indictment for the vulnerable kiwi children!

  30. outofbed 30

    I guess that if in the bible it said ” and lo Jesus said we shall not smite the small and defenseless but send their parents to a positive parenting course, Family first would have a different perspective.
    However it doesn’t. so lets apply some commom sense
    Basically if you are doing the job of parenting with love and skill there is absolutely no need whatsoever to smack children,lightly or otherwise,
    So if you are under pressure and feel the need to hit children may I suggest that you toddle of to the nearest parenting centre and enroll on a course. Your kids will love you for it

    Be aware though it will take more time then signing a petition

  31. Dean 31

    Tane:

    “Scribe, I don’t believe for a second that everyone who signed the petition beats their children.

    However, what can not be disputed is that the petition, if successful, will legalise the beating of children including assault with items such as horsewhips.

    It is therefore entirely reasonable to label it a pro-beating petition, and its leaders as the pro-beating lobby, because that is precisely what its effect will be.”

    You’re so close to being right but so damned wrong that it’s not even funny. Your inability to debate this issue dispationately – just like Steve’s post (no suprise there, however) – leads me to believe that you could never engage in debate on this subject meaningfully.

    Physically injuring children was never legal, and you know it. The law was very clear in this regard. Of course you’ll debate the semantics of this but you are dead wrong. You are simply parroting the Greens and their mindless mantra. Which is disappointing to me given that I’d always regarded your responses and posts as being reasonably balanced.

    Every person who has ever used physical discipline on their child is not a criminal. Even Clark said so a few years ago, before she chose to flip flop on the issue. Can you tell me why she had the change of heart?

  32. I’m sure its mostly tongue-in-cheek labelling it “the ‘child beating’ petition”, considering the same groups who opposed the end of the section 59 clause “the anti-smacking bill”.

    If they can’t stand the heat, they should get out of the kitchen.

  33. Dean 33

    Policy Parrot:

    “I’m sure its mostly tongue-in-cheek labelling it “the ‘child beating’ petition’, considering the same groups who opposed the end of the section 59 clause “the anti-smacking bill’.”

    If you’re that out of touch with the prosecutions that have occured then I suggest that you refrain from commenting on the matter altogether.

  34. Dean – a woman in Timaru beat her child with a riding crop. She was charged and put before a jury and plead section 59. She escaped conviction based on this defense. This situation happened reasonably often. I just don’t get why you would be against repealing a law that allowed this.

  35. randal 35

    probably because the only person he can beat with impunity is a child..q.e.d.

  36. Lyn 36

    “Physically injuring children was never legal, and you know it. The law was very clear in this regard.”

    The question is – is causing physical pain, even if not visible injury, to someone smaller and more defenseless than yourself ever actually ok? As Jum points out – how do we ever determine what exactly counts as acceptable? Obviously there have been significant problems in doing so in the legal system given what Robinsod has pointed out above. The safest thing is to just draw the line at physical contact intended to cause pain.

    I believe it’s the bible that says a man may use the rule of thumb to determine the thickness of the rod that he uses to beat his wife and there’s no way I’d want to go back to that, or legalised rape within marriage, or the “it’s just a domestic” argument. Activism followed by legislative changes and changes to police culture have made it completely unacceptable for adults within a family to hit each other. Why children shouldn’t enjoy the same protection is a mystery to me.

  37. mike 37

    “This situation happened reasonably often”

    Yes RS there were kids getting beaten with riding crops all over NZ until Aunty Sue and uncle Helen came to the rescue.

  38. Felix 38

    Lyn, I agree. In years to come this episode in NZ history will be seen in the same light as we now view the outlawing of rape within marriage, the homosexual law reform and just about any other progressive social legislation you can name – aggressively opposed by the creepy-with-agendas crowd, with everyone else looking back and wondering how it could have ever been a serious question.

  39. Lyn 39

    Felix – I certainly agree with the sentiment but (at the risk of showing a misreading of your comment) I think that these law changes are not just opposed by the “creepy-with-agendas crowd” – the surrounding debates always involve a significant chunk of the community and that’s why they’re so important – they really mark a shift in social thinking, so that after the fact posterity then has the luxury of thinking “how could that ever have been a serious question”. The Labour government has given us a number of really important pieces of progressive legislation and I reckon it’s what they’ll be remembered for most.

  40. Dean 40

    Rob:

    “Dean – a woman in Timaru beat her child with a riding crop. She was charged and put before a jury and plead section 59. She escaped conviction based on this defense. This situation happened reasonably often. I just don’t get why you would be against repealing a law that allowed this.”

    A guy in Christchurch got convicted of child rape and many years later most reasonable people see that as a miscarriage of justice.

    It doesn’t mean that the law needed tightening in the first place, but good on you for pretending that a few isolated incidents mean that we have to have an overreaction to correct it.

  41. Dean 41

    “The question is – is causing physical pain, even if not visible injury, to someone smaller and more defenseless than yourself ever actually ok? As Jum points out – how do we ever determine what exactly counts as acceptable? Obviously there have been significant problems in doing so in the legal system given what Robinsod has pointed out above. The safest thing is to just draw the line at physical contact intended to cause pain.”

    Sorry, but if you’re having problems comparing a light tap to a child compared to a savage, brutal beating – which you’ll notice haven’t stopped since the passing of the law – then you’re in need of more help than the people who wanted the law passed in the first place.

    It’s called common sense. You know, like the kind Annette King would like to espouse.

    “I believe it’s the bible that says a man may use the rule of thumb to determine the thickness of the rod that he uses to beat his wife and there’s no way I’d want to go back to that, or legalised rape within marriage, or the “it’s just a domestic’ argument. Activism followed by legislative changes and changes to police culture have made it completely unacceptable for adults within a family to hit each other. Why children shouldn’t enjoy the same protection is a mystery to me.”

    Sorry, but arguing with anything in the Bible is just utter BS. Argue with the contents of the Koran and what to do with homosexuals next time if you like; it makes just as much sense.

    Your selective moral equivalencies are, quite simply, stunning.

  42. Draco TB 42

    It needed 280,275 signatures and seemed to have enough but the Office of the Clerk found many of them were multiple or fake names.

    What a surprise – people who wish to be child beaters lying.

  43. Dave 43

    Many were false names?? Hahahahaha dont make me laugh. Family First’s petition? Hahaha again. It is not Family First’s petition. Get basic facts right.

    I know how many were illegible, how many were duplicates and how many were triplicates in the sample.It needed 285,027 signatures ( your number was incorrect.)

    If you want to see the facts on this this is the only place to go to date.

  44. AncientGeek 44

    I heard on the radio that they presented about 304k signatures. Now they need to get about 15k more. So about 35k or thereabouts must have been invalid. Over 10% is quite high.

  45. Dave 45

    Ancient Geek

    According to the petitinors, they handed in 324,511 signatures. The sample was 1/11th – so 29,501 signatures were checked.

  46. Lyn 46

    Dean – my point is simply that there should be a clear line drawn in the law. Otherwise its possible to get into situations where the law is interpreted in such a way that a riding crop beating is ruled essentially equivalent to a light tap. This is not about commonsense. If it was we wouldn’t need the law in the first place, since commonsense dictates that it’s not acceptable to hit children with a riding crop but there are still instances, however isolated, where this *is* ruled acceptable.

    If you read my comment with a little more consideration you’ll realise that my mention of the bible’s rod is really an allusion to the fact that setting parametres on violence is essentially impossible and that interpretation thereof is a bitch. I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “selective moral equivalencies” since the mention of the bible was a rhetorical device, however sadly this failed to register with you. Basically I think it’s shit that some humans were legally entitled to beat and enact other kinds of violence on other humans within the confines of the family. Socially and in law it has become unacceptable for men to do this to women, and now, with s59 it is defined as unacceptable for adults to do this to children. And these are changes I agree with. Call the mention of the bible a macguffin if it eases your mind. Really, I wasn’t being that deep.

  47. spanner 47

    Great to see that callous and selfish kiwi politicians are doing NOTHING to address rampant CHILD ABUSE and INFANTICIDE !!!!

    What a disgraceful Nation run by heartless and cruel aliens!!!!

  48. randal 48

    this country went down the drain after national brought in policies for people to self regulate along with post modern scepticism in the schools and what we have now is the result of 9 years of people doing what the damm hell they liked…ideas have consequences and now it is almost impossible to impose any sort of regulatory laws because of the howls from the rugged individuals protecting their freedoms…get it right spanner. you cant have it both ways.

  49. vto 49

    “pro-beaters”. ha ha you bunch of idiots.

    The state is the biggest “beater” of them all. The only way they get compliance with laws is through threat of physical action/internment. Same thing. Grow up.

  50. Steve Pierson 50

    vto. yes, the State, controlled by people that we elect, has the power to enforce the rules our elected officials set. Really insightful.

    spanner. Are you Peter Burns, Republican Party candidate for Christchurch Central and known as dad4justice? Becuase D4J is banned.

  51. vto 51

    whats your point mr pierson?

  52. Matthew Pilott 52

    Good call vto – since we need police to maintain law and order, I might go beat the crap out of a few kids. Any other witty remarks to contribute?

    (cap – syria wholesale – not if al-Assad has anything to do with it!)

  53. lprent 53

    Ummm. I have a look later. Sure looks like him.

    I stored his IP ranges before removing them from moderation, but he may have picked up another link.

    spanner is almost certainly Absolute Power, who has annoyed me previously. That was on a quick scan on IP’s, and it would not surprise me if he is a couple of other people as well.

    I’ll run a check later. I’m putting all of the current suspects into moderation. While I check it out.

    Sorry to anyone who gets caught there, but d4j is a real pain.

  54. AncientGeek 54

    Dave: I stand corrected, I dropped 20k should have been 324k presented. So that is an estimate based on a sample drawn from the petition.

    I read your link, and then went on to the NoRightTurn (your link to there is broken).

    Looks like a valid technique. Using the 99% confidence level seems reasonable as well. After all you’d hate to get to the presenting the petition and then failing on a full count.

  55. vto 55

    Matthew Pilott you are an idiot. Why do you keep referring to “beating”? What a waste of space your post is.

  56. Matthew Pilott 56

    Right-o vto, you’ve yet to make something approaching a useful or comprehensible (let alone intelligent) point, but keep it up if you will.

    If it helps you, feel free so substitute “beat” with “lovingly smack” in my last post, is that better?

  57. vto 57

    yes it is better mr pilott.

    But better still, you fullas on the so-called ‘left’ keep things up. The public clearly think this labour govt is doing the right thing on many fronts – ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

    [lprent: this one definitely looks like d4j as well - on file for later consideration]

  58. vto 58

    Well as usual, I dwell on my posts post-postage and regret the manner in which I lay out my ideas. Apologies for the roughness and rudeness to individual folk. I will try to keep it more seemly in future.

  59. vto 59

    I am not d4j btw.

  60. Millsy 60

    do you guys get off on hitting your kids? Is you willingness to hit your kids with jug cords and the like compensating for the lack of quality sex in your life?

  61. randal 61

    no millsy it is because of a general weakness in ego strength and compensating for it by beating people more helpless than themselves

  62. ropata 62

    why are socialist nanny control freaks so obsessed with taking over parenting and arrogating to themselves the right to attack families and decent parents? i surmise it is because they are disturbed individuals with no idea of boundaries, self-control, or healthy family life. so they are engaged in a mass psychological transference of their own problems onto normal kiwis. the lunatics are running the asylum!

  63. ropata 63

    do you think undermining parental authority is good for the future of nz? are you so demented that you cannot admit children need boundaries and occasionally forced to learn things anout life (not running away, not killing their sister, not destroying property) for their own wellbeing and the wellbeing of those around them?

    no you’d rather wreck a whole generation than give up your self-indulgent idealistic spoilt temper tantrums against families that recognise that children are children, and want to inculcate virtue and self-restraint. bradford and her venomous hordes of leftist outrage-a-trons are acting like bossy brats. god help us

  64. Lyn – fyi this is my first comment on this thread and I find it tragic for 180 000 of our children living in poverty. I bet none of those sad and vulnerable kiwi children would be the son’s and daughter’s of politicians.

    Lyn – fyi -yesterday ( my birthday) I was accused by anonymous camphylobacter keyboard creeps of murdering the Ashburton school girl Kirsty Bentley.

    What has New Zealand become?

  65. r0b 65

    Lyn – fyi this is my first comment on this thread and I find it tragic for 180 000 of our children living in poverty.

    Dad, I agree. Child poverty reached terrible levels under the National government of the 1990s, so that “New Zealand came third-worst in the developed world in a Unicef survey of child poverty around the year 2000″.

    Fortunately it has been slowly decreasing since.

    I was accused by anonymous camphylobacter keyboard creeps

    I’m very sorry to hear it. In what blog / place did that happen?

    What has New Zealand become?

    NZ has become and will become exactly what we make it.

  66. “I’m very sorry to hear it. In what blog / place did that happen?”

    My blog r0b. There is no doubt a sleeper cell from the insane extreme left who would like me off blogosphere permanently.

  67. r0b 67

    There is no doubt a sleeper cell from the insane extreme left who would like me off blogosphere permanently.

    I have no sympathy for aggressive extremists from either end of the political spectrum dad.

  68. higherstandard 68

    Child poverty reached terrible levels under the National government of the 1990s, so that ?New Zealand came third-worst in the developed world in a Unicef survey of child poverty around the year 2000?.

    Michael Cullen said it so it must be true.

    On a less cynical note while both sides berate each other it would be worthwhile having some useful measurements to detremine which kids are really missing out on education, going to school hungry and are at risk. The rather simplistic measures applied by the recent NZ report (I think it was looking at the percentage of children who lived in homes on 50% or less of the average wage) and probably similar reports from UNICEF while interesting and fodder for the politicians aren’t really getting to the crux of the matter.

  69. randal 69

    new zealand has become a nation of infantilised adults who think it is more important to have big bore cars and hardly davisions and trips to america to visit route 66 than it is to have social cohesion and harmony which they think they can obtain solely by coercing their children

  70. r0b 70

    Michael Cullen said it so it must be true.

    Ahh, Unicef said it HS, not Cullen. There’s no point in trying to deny the legacy of the economic policies of the 90s.

    it would be worthwhile having some useful measurements to detremine

    I agree. I’m not an expert in this area and don’t have time to look into it now, but perhaps someone with relevant expertise will comment.

  71. higherstandard 71

    r0b

    You live in some kind of delusional fantasy land if you think Cullen’s statements are not loaded with half truths.

  72. r0b 72

    HS, you’re a Tory, but you’re not usually a fool. So I’m going to assume that you’re just having a bad day today. I’ll say it again slowly.

    Unicef. Said. It. Not. Michael. Cullen.

    Ok? Clear now?

  73. “new zealand has become a nation of infantilised adults”

    No randal, sadly New Zealand has become a nation with high infanticide rates.

  74. higherstandard 74

    rob

    Your a socialist so I’ll assume you are being deliberately obtuse.

    I’ll say it again slowly – I don’t believe politician’s press releases and I suspect this one is much the same as the data on the trumpeting of NZ has the third best health system in the OECD that gets put up on this site every now and again which is also bullshit.

    Unless you can direct me to the actual study from UNICEF that says we’re the third worst amongst developed countries I will remain sceptical.

  75. r0b 75

    Your a socialist

    “You’re a social democrat” would be more accurate.

    I’ll say it again slowly – I don’t believe politician’s press releases

    Are you so desperate to avoid acknowledging the truth? The links I gave were to Herald articles, not press releases. One of them uses a stock photo of Cullen – who knows why because he’s not quoted. Is this the source of your confusion? Did you only look at the pictures?

    Unless you can direct me to the actual study from UNICEF that says we’re the third worst amongst developed countries I will remain sceptical.

    Knock yourself out: http://www.unicef.org/media/files/ChildPovertyReport.pdf

    Or see various summaries such as from Save The Children:
    http://www.savethechildren.org.nz/new_zealand/newsroom/nz_child_poverty.html

    “The Child Poverty in Rich Countries 2005 report shows that one in six children in New Zealand are still living below the poverty line. While this information was drawn from 2001 figures, the comparison against other developed countries is new, and provides a startling illustration of the fact that our international standing is falling, not improving.’

    It is no secret how this came about:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_National_Government_of_New_Zealand

    Richardson’s first budget, delivered in 1991 and named by the media as ‘the mother of all budgets’[1], introduced major cuts in social welfare spending. Unemployment and other benefits were substantially cut, and ‘market rents’ were introduced for state houses, in some cases tripling the rents of low-income people.[1] In combination with the high employment resulting from some of the 1980s reforms, this caused poverty to increase, and foodbanks and soup kitchens appeared in New Zealand for the first time since the Great Depression of the 1930s.

    Are you really so terrified of owning the legacy of the 90’s that you must try and write this off as a Cullen press release? Wake up!

  76. Billy 76

    Hey r0b, if National are responsible for poor social outcomes they must also responsible for the strong economy?

  77. Hoolian 77

    r0b, you’re a total knob. You cannot blame a 2005 report on the 1991 Budget (14 years before). If that is true, then none of Labour’s policies are going to help alleviate poverty/social welfare/social justice etc until, at least, 2014 (14 years on from the 2000 Budget). Now that’s ineffectiveness.

    It’s lazy politics. It’s not even worth arguing with you.

    But, while we’re making pathetically blind pot shots at random: I blame the Iraq War on David Lange’s Oxford speech, and the death of Mao is to blame for AIDS. How am I doing?

  78. r0b 78

    Hey r0b, if National are responsible for poor social outcomes they must also responsible for the strong economy?

    Billy, that seems fair. To the extent that it was strong (a different debate).

    r0b, you’re a total knob. You cannot blame a 2005 report on the 1991 Budget (14 years before).

    Hoolian, perhaps you should just let the grown ups talk here. The 2005 report was based on 2001 and earlier data which therefore reflects the performance of the 90’s (and the legacy of the 91 budget). Big complex social problems to not switch on and off like light bulbs, addressing them is a long slow process and the outcome is measured over many years.

  79. higherstandard 79

    According to the report you’ve kindly linked for me to there is no data that states we were the third worst country for child poverty in the developed world if you’re talking about the indicator of child income poverty in isolation I would suggest that this is a little misleading as it’s a household income measure and bizarrely the USA is the worst among developed countries.

    why not quote the deprivation index wherein NZ lies towards the middle or better of the field or medical deprivation etc etc .

    My point being as I said before it would be worthwhile having some useful measurements to detremine which kids are really missing out on education, going to school hungry and are at risk.

    r0b I also note your continued bleating about the previous National government and selective quoting from Wiki I’m not sure if you’re aware but Ruth Richardson is not running for parliament.

    captcha ate Copeland (no thanks)

  80. r0b 80

    According to the report you’ve kindly linked for me to there is no data that states we were the third worst country for child poverty in the developed world

    Well you’d better tell The Herald (which was who I was quoting). And you’d better tell Save The Children, because they seem pretty concerned.

    if you’re talking about the indicator of child income poverty in isolation I would suggest that this is a little misleading as

    First it was a plot by Michael Cullen. Now the stats don’t mean what they mean. Heaven forbid that HS is simply wrong.

    why not quote the deprivation index wherein NZ lies towards the middle or better of the field or medical deprivation etc etc

    Ask The Herald. Ask Save The Children.

    My point being as I said before it would be worthwhile

    So you did, and then you tried to blame it all on Michael Cullen.

    Ruth Richardson is not running for parliament.

    Which has nothing to do with the legacy of child poverty that her government left New Zealand.

  81. higherstandard 81

    r0b you clearly have no interest in rational debate keep on being a slippery socialist if you like….. sorry I mean a slippery social democrat.

  82. r0b 82

    Fine HS, and you keep trying to explain away the issues.

  83. higherstandard 83

    No that’s the politicans’ jobs … and yours apparently

  84. r0b 84

    HS, as the record shows, you have been desperately trying to first deny and then explain away the increase in childhood poverty that was a legacy of the National government of the 1990s.

    Perhaps you should ask yourself why you go to such lengths as persistently blaming Michael Cullen when it was repeatedly explained to you that he had nothing to do with the material cited. Why are you so desperate to avoid truth? Is it because you couldn’t bring yourself to vote for National if you acknowledged it?

    As a medical professional you must know first hand the long lasting health effects of child poverty (especially via maternal / prenatal / childhood nutrition). You are also presumably trained to evaluate facts. Perhaps you should take off your blinkers long enough to do so.

    This is my final contribution to a discussion that has gone on much too long. Farewell.

  85. higherstandard 85

    r0b your original link was to a press release from Michael Cullen’s office hence my scepticism.

  86. r0b 86

    HS, in a calmer mood now, and purely as a matter of fact here, my first post in this thread was “May 5, 2008 at 9:36 am” and contained links to two articles in The Herald. At no time have I linked to a press release from Cullen’s office.

  87. higherstandard 87

    Whatever r0b I pretty sure what I linked to originally but will take your word for it – as an aside in relation to your wittering about Richardson – remember why that budget was necessary.

    Helen Clark as deputy Prime Minister and Labour’s key strategist at the 1990 election helped perpetrate the big lie of that campaign.
    In 1990, New Zealand was teetering towards economic recession. But the Labour Cabinet kept claiming right up to election day that the Government’s accounts were in surplus.
    National Prime Minister Jim Bolger’s plans for a decent society were scuppered when he was confronted by officials just one day after the election with news of a serious fiscal crisis that they had kept secret under Labour’s orders.
    The Bank of New Zealand was about to go belly-up, something senior Labour ministers had known about for weeks, and the Treasury was forecasting a $3.7 billion deficit for the 1991/92 year which would blow out to a $5.2 billion deficit by 1993/94 unless drastic actions were taken.
    Bolger’s Cabinet had to cut costs to avert a major credit rating downgrade for New Zealand.
    These are the conditions that led to the mother of all budgets

  88. r0b 88

    Whatever r0b I pretty sure what I linked to originally but will take your word for it

    OK, that just pegged my bullshit meter again. You don’t need to take my word for it, the links are right there upthread for all to see. You bizarre Cullen obsession is yours and yours alone. I think you saw his photo in The Herald piece and just switched off your brain. Then you then ignored several direct statements that Cullen had nothing to do with it. Sorry HS, this is not your best work.

    as an aside in relation to your wittering about Richardson – remember why that budget was necessary

    Nice cut and paste plagiarism HS, that’s really putting the thought in. Yes, the incoming National government inherited a financial mess (though a much smaller one than the incoming Labour government before it in 1984). It was a mess created by the right wing extremists who went on to found ACT. Hurrah for right wing economic theory! And yes, bizarrely, that happened under the flag of a Labour government.

    A budgetary response was certainly required. But it didn’t have to be a sustained attack on the poor. Richardson could have raised taxes instead. She didn’t. The National government made a conscious effort to have the poorest members of society carry the can for failed right wing economic policy. This lead to increased poverty and child poverty in during the 1990s in NZ. Despite your delusional rearguard actions HS, the history of this period has already been written.

  89. Dan 89

    Looking back at Scribes comments on Bradford deeming it an “antismacking bill”, I am amazed to find that nowhere in his link does Bradford deem her bill “antismacking”.
    Have another look Scribe. Your comprehension skills are way off.

  90. higherstandard 90

    ‘She could have raised taxes’ – brilliant more insane carping from the Labour party

  91. higherstandard 91

    Get it Dan it’s “Child beating” anyone against this bill is supporting child beating and is a child beater – it must be true because the Standard said so.

  92. RedLogix 92

    hs,

    Yes the phrase “childbeating” is an err… beatup.

    But then so was the term “Anti-Smacking Bill”. That came from the well-funded fundamentalist groups who believe that they have a Divine Right to beat their children in order to instill the “Fear of God” into them. Yes I’m serious. I’ve listened to them with my own ears. But at the same time I accept that the vast majority of kiwis who have opposed the Bill are at the same time totally opposed to physically abusing children.

    So why then is it so hard to understand that those of us who supported the Bill were in the main not at all interested in banning the trivial and transient smacking that some parents occasionally resort to out of either monemetary frustration or lack of a better alternative to hand?

    The repeal of S59 was NEVER about most of the nonsense that has been spouted about it. It has however achieved two simple things:

    1. It placed the legal questions around assault on children on pretty much exactly the same grounds as assault on adults. There was never any reason why children should have enjoyed LESS protection at law than do adults.

    2. It has generated a long overdue debate over some deeply held and dysfunctional attitudes New Zealanders have around child-rearing, domestic violence. If it had done nothing else, this has made it all worthwhile.

  93. HIGHERSTANDARD 93

    Red

    agreed

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  • Swearing about swearing the oath
    Yesterday, I was swearing. Swearing the Parliamentary oath, that is. But, under my breath, I was also quietly swearing about the archaic, colonial form of that oath and its inappropriateness for today’s Aotearoa New Zealand. To be permitted to speak...
    Greens | 20-10
  • Damning report on Ruataniwha dam numbers
    When I presented my submission to the Board of Inquiry on the Tukituki Catchment Proposal I compared the proposed 83 metre high Ruataniwha dam with the Clyde Dam and noted the risk of cost blowouts in the construction process.  The...
    Greens | 20-10
  • Church congratulated on child poverty stand
    The efforts by the bishops of the Anglican Church to ensure that the issue of child poverty is not forgotten is a call to all New Zealanders to take action, says Labour’s Interfaith-Dialogue Spokesperson, Su’a William Sio.   “I think...
    Labour | 19-10
  • Labour names Review Team
    Labour’s New Zealand Council has appointed Bryan Gould as Convenor of its post-General Election Review.  He will be joined on the Review Team by Hon Margaret Wilson, Stacey Morrison and Brian Corban (see further biographical details here). The Review Team...
    Labour | 19-10
  • Labour backs urban development plans
    Auckland Council’s plan to set up an urban development agency is to be applauded and central government should get behind it to make it a success, Labour’s Auckland Issues spokesperson Phil Twyford says. Auckland Council CEO Stephen Town has indicated plans...
    Labour | 18-10
  • New Zealand can be rightly proud of seat on Security Council
    Gaining a seat on the United Nation’s Security Council shows the sort of standing that New Zealand has in the world and the quality of the long campaign that we ran over nearly a decade, says Foreign Affairs spokesperson David...
    Labour | 16-10
  • NZ has opportunity on UN Security Council
    New Zealand has an opportunity to make a major contribution to the strengthening of international law and institutional capacity through its upcoming two-year tenure on the United Nations Security Council, Green Party spokesperson on global affairs, Dr Kennedy Graham said...
    Greens | 16-10
  • MPI still dragging the chain over causes of food bug
    The Ministry of Primary Industries’ release of Environmental Science and Research’s initial reports regarding the sources of a nasty stomach bug will be little comfort to the 127 people affected by it, Labour’s Food Safety spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “This...
    Labour | 16-10
  • Treasury officials should try working without food
    The Green Party is challenging Treasury officials to work for a week without eating properly, in light of their advice to Government that a food in schools programme is not needed."Treasury's advice was that providing food for children in schools...
    Greens | 15-10
  • Councils need to better protect our drinking water
    Environment Canterbury (ECan) is proposing several variations to its regional land and water plan that will allow for increased nutrient and other pollution from irrigation and intensive agriculture on the Canterbury Plains. Commissioners are hearing submissions on Variation 1 to...
    Greens | 15-10
  • National needs to commit to making NZ workers safe
    The National Government must do more to help make New Zealand workplaces a safer place to work in, Green Party industrial relations spokesperson Denise Roche said today.Data released by Statistics New Zealand today showed that workers in the fishing and...
    Greens | 15-10
  • Key commits to deployment before consultation or analysis
    John Key’s offer to consult Opposition parties on whether to deploy New Zealand forces against ISIS looks increasingly like a PR exercise only, says Labour’s Defence spokesperson, Phil Goff. “The presence of New Zealand’s Chief of Defence Force at a...
    Labour | 15-10
  • National must end ideological opposition to raising income
    If John Key is serious about tackling child poverty he must approach it with an open mind, and overcome his ideological block to raising incomes as a solution, the Green Party said today.Papers released to Radio New Zealand today show...
    Greens | 14-10
  • Pentagon links climate change and terrorism
    Yesterday the Pentagon launched a plan to deal with a threat that “poses immediate risks to national security”; one that “will affect the Department of Defense’s ability to defend the nation”. It wasn’t referring to Ebola or ISIS. It was...
    Greens | 14-10
  • Four Nominees for Labour’s Leadership
    As at 5pm today four valid nominations had been received for the position of Labour Leader, as follows: Andrew Little(nominated by Poto Williams and Iain Lees-Galloway) Nanaia Mahuta(nominated by Louisa Wall and Su’a William Sio) David Parker(nominated by Damien O’Connor...
    Labour | 14-10
  • Green Party calls for consultation over terrorism law changes
    The Green Party has today written to the Prime Minister asking him to engage in wider consultation prior to changing any laws as a result of the recently announced terrorism law reviews, said the Green Party today. In a letter...
    Greens | 14-10
  • MPI must name product and supermarket chain
    The Ministry of Primary Industries must name the product responsible for severe gastroenteritis affecting people around the country, and the supermarket chain distributing it, Labour’s Food Safety spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “The Ministry seems to be more concerned about protecting...
    Labour | 13-10
  • John Key dishonest about reasons for wanting to change terrorism law
    John Key is misleading the public to push through terrorism law changes under urgency, the Green Party said today. On Sunday, John Key stated that it is not illegal for someone to fight overseas for a terrorist group, such as...
    Greens | 12-10
  • Law changes shaping up to be worse than first thought
    The Prime Minister needs to be up front about exactly what changes he is planning to make to the Employment Relations  Amendment Bill, Labour's spokesperson on Labour Issues Andrew Little says.Interviewed on Q&A yesterday John Key said he did not...
    Labour | 12-10
  • Rapists, not Tinder, the threat to women
    Blame for rape and sexual assault should only ever be laid at the door of the perpetrator, not dating services or the actions of women themselves, Labour’s Associate Police spokesperson Kelvin Davis says. “Tinder is not the problem and women...
    Labour | 09-10
  • Safer Journeys For People Who Cycle
    You have a rare opportunity to tell the people who are making the decisions on cycling how to make it better. The Cycling Safety Panel is seeking feedback on their draft recommendations for improving the safety of cycling in New...
    Greens | 08-10
  • Subsidising more pollution will undermine water clean-up plan at Te Waihora...
    In 2010, NIWA found Canterbury’s Te Waihora/Lake Ellesmere had the worst nutrient status of 140 lakes around New Zealand that it measured. In 2011, the National Government committed to spending $15 million across the country through the Fresh Start for...
    Greens | 08-10
  • Adding value not herbicides
    The HT swedes, and other brassicas, might seem like a good idea to farmers struggling against weeds but like the GE road, is this the path we want our agriculture to be treading? The Federated Farmers President, Dr William Rolleston...
    Greens | 07-10
  • ‘Blame the Planner’ bizarre approach to child poverty
    The National Government is stooping to a bizarre new low in blaming "planning processes" for poverty and inequality, after spending six years doing nothing about either the housing market or child poverty, the Green Party said today. Finance Minister Bill...
    Greens | 07-10
  • Media Advisory
    MANA Leader, Hone Harawira will not be available to speak with media today regarding his release “Recount Just One Step To restoring Credibility”. He is however available for media comment tomorrow, Tuesday the 8th of October, all media arrangements are...
    Mana | 07-10
  • RECOUNT JUST ONE STEP TO RESTORING CREDIBILITY
    “I have applied for a judicial recount of the votes in the Tai Tokerau election because it is one step in trying to restore credibility to the electoral process in the north, and, I suspect, in all other Maori electorates...
    Mana | 07-10
  • MANA SEEKS TAI TOKERAU RECOUNT
    The MANA Movement is supporting Leader Hone Harawira’s application for a judicial re-count in the Te Tai Tokerau electorate for the 2014 general election. President Lisa McNab says there are a number of serious issues of concern regarding the ability...
    Mana | 07-10
  • MANA to fight mass privatisation of state housing
    Announcements over the past 12 hours from the Minister responsible for Housing New Zealand, Bill English, and Minister for Social Housing, Paula Bennett, make clear the government’s intention for the mass privatisation of state housing. This comes during the middle...
    Mana | 07-10
  • Journalists have right to protect sources
    Legal authorities must respect the right of journalist Nicky Hager to protect the source of his material for his Dirty Politics book under Section 68 of the Evidence Act, Acting Labour Leader David Parker says. “It is crucial in an...
    Labour | 06-10
  • It shouldn’t take the Army to house the homeless
    National’s move to speed up its state house sell-off shows it is bankrupt of new ideas, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “National has been in office for six years, yet the housing crisis has got worse every month and...
    Labour | 06-10
  • Government must lift social housing supply, not shuffle the deck chairs
    National's decision to shift the state provision of housing to third parties is a smokescreen for the Government decreasing the provision of affordable housing, the Green Party said today."What National should be doing is increasing the supply of both social...
    Greens | 06-10
  • Election 2014 – the final count
    While we have to wait for the final booth level counts we can now see how well we did in the specials and look at electorate level data. First off special votes (and disallowed/recounted votes etc). There was a change...
    Greens | 06-10
  • We need more houses, not Ministers
    The Government’s decision to have three housing Ministers will create a dog’s breakfast of the portfolio and doesn’t bode well for fixing the country’s housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “New Zealanders need more houses, not more Ministers....
    Labour | 05-10
  • MANA’S CHALLENGE TO THE 51st PARLIAMENT
    Ten years ago I led 50,000 Maori on the historic FORESHORE AND SEABED MARCH from Te Rerenga Wairua to the very steps of this parliament, in a march against the greatest land grab in the history of this country –...
    Mana | 03-10
  • Is this really necessary?
    No one denies chief executives should be well paid for their skills and experience, but it is the efforts of all employees which contribute to company profits, Labour’s Acting Leader David Parker says. “Salaries paid to chief executives come at...
    Labour | 02-10
  • Lyttelton Port workers also deserve pay rises
    Hard slog by Lyttelton Port workers contributed to strong financial growth for the company and they deserve to be rewarded for their work as much as its chief executive, says Labour’s Acting Leader David Parker. “Lyttelton Port chief executive Peter...
    Labour | 02-10
  • 5AA Australia – NZ on UN Security Council + Dirty Politics Lingers On
    5AA Australia: Selwyn Manning and Peter Godfrey deliver their weekly bulletin Across The Ditch. General round up of over night talkback issues: Thongs, Jandals and flip-flops… ISSUE 1: New Zealand has been successful in its campaign to become a non...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • When I mean me, I mean my office & when I call whaleoil I mean not as m...
    This. Is. Ludicrous. Green Party co-leader Russel Norman put the first of what are likely to be many questions about Mr Key’s relationship with Slater, asking him how many times he had phoned or texted the blogger since 2008. “None...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • A brief word on describing the Government as ‘boring and bland’
    The narrative being sown is that this Government will be a boring and bland third term. Boring and bland. Since the election, Key has announced he is privatising 30% of state houses without reinvesting any of that money back into housing society’s most...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • More Latté Than Lager: Reflections on Grant Robertson’s Campaign Launch.
    BIKERS? SERIOUSLY! Had Grant Robertson’s campaign launch been organised by Phil Goff? Was this a pitch for the votes of what few Waitakere Men remain in the Labour Party? Was I even at the right place? Well, yes, I was....
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • About Curwen Ares Rolinson
    Curwen Ares Rolinson – Curwen Ares Rolinson is a firebrand young nationalist presently engaged in acts of political resistance deep behind enemy lines amidst the leafy boughs of Epsom. He is affiliated with the New Zealand First Party; although his...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • About Kelly Ellis
    Kelly Ellis.Kelly Ellis – As a child, Kelly Ellis didn’t so much fall into the cracks, but willfully wriggled her way into them. Ejected from Onslow College – a big job in the 70s – Kelly worked in car factories,...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • About Kate Davis
    Kate Davis.Kate Davis – Having completed her BA in English and Politics, Kate is now starting her MA. Kate works as a volunteer advocate at Auckland Action Against Poverty and previously worked for the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective. Kate writes...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Parker does a Shearer – oh for a Labour Leader who can challenge msm fals...
    Sigh. It seems David Parker has done a Shearer… Like a cult and too red – Parker on LabourLabour leadership contender David Parker says Labour borders on feeling like “a cult” and must look at its branding – including its...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • A brief word on the hundreds of millions NZ is spending on the secret intel...
    The enormity of the mass surveillance state NZ Government’s have built carries a huge price tag… Kiwis pay $103m ‘membership fee’ for spyingThe $103 million taxpayer funding of New Zealand’s intelligence agencies is effectively a membership fee for joining the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Where. Is. Jason. Ede?
    Where. Is. Jason. Ede?...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Labour’s Din of Inequity
    Watching Labour’s leadership candidates on Q+A on Sunday, I noticed the ongoing use of terms like “opportunity” and “aspiration”, and “party of the workers”. What do these mean? We glean much from Labour, and from the media about Labour, but not...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • “Blue-Greenwash” fails the test when it comes to endangered dolphins
    National’s pre-election promises saw some wins for the environment – perhaps as the party sought to appease its “Blue-Green” voters and broaden its popular appeal. Some of the ecological gains were a long time in the making, overdue even– such...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Reasons not to be cheerful, Part #272b
    Why don’t you get back into bed? The next few years — the rest of this century — are not going to be pretty. There is an obvious disconnect between any remaining political ambition to fix climate change and the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • OIA protocols and official advice ignored to hide Child Poverty
    It might not seem so now, but child poverty was a major election issue. What a pity we did not have the full debate. In that debate it would have been very helpful to have seen the Ministry of Social...
    The Daily Blog | 20-10
  • Previewing the 4 candidates for Leader of the Labour Party
    The extraordinary outbursts by Shearer last week highlights just how toxic that Caucus is. Shearer was on every major media platform as the ABC attack dog tearing into Cunliffe in the hope of diminishing Cunliffe’s support of Little by tearing...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – the sudden explosion of ‘left’ blogs
    Time to Teach or more people will suffer from P.A.I.D. Political And Intellectual Dysmorphia.I was on the Twitter and a guy followed me so of course I did the polite thing and followed him back. He wrote a blog so...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Ego vs Eco
    Ego vs Eco...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • We can’t let the Roastbuster case slip away
    Those of us (like me) left with hope that the police would aggressively follow through on the large amount of evidence on offer to them (let’s not forget they forgot they even had some at one point) in the Roastbusters...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Food, shelter and medicine instead of bombs and bullets
    The on-going conflict across the Middle East – due in large part to the US-led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq – has created another humanitarian crisis of biblical proportion. The essentials of life are desperately needed in Iraq and Syria...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • The politics of electorate accommodations
    National’s electorate accommodations with ACT and United Future were a big factor in it winning re-election. Interestingly, there is another electorate accommodation scenario whereby the centre-left could have come out on top, even with the same distribution of party votes....
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Why you should join the TPPA Action on 8 November
    On 8 November 2014, thousands of Kiwis will take part in the International Day of Action to protest the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA). The rally cry for us is TPPA – Corporate Trap, Kiwis Fight Back. Why should you join...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • GUEST BLOG – Patrick O’Dea: no new coal mines
    Green Party and Mana Party policy is “NO NEW COAL MINES!” Auckland Coal Action is trying to put this policy into action on the ground. ACA after a hard fought two year campaign waged alongside local residents and Iwi, in...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Comparing Police action – Hager raid vs Roast Buster case
    This satire had the NZ Police contact TDB and threaten us with 6months in prison for using their logo.   The plight of Nicky Hager and the draconian Police actions against him has generated over  $53 000 in donations so...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • Malala Yousafzai, White Saviour Complexes and Local Resistance
    Last week, Malala Yousafzai was the co-recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize. Since her exposure to the worldwide spotlight, her spirit, wisdom and strength have touched the hearts of people everywhere. However, there have been cynics who have argued that...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • Jason Ede is back – but no media can interview him?
    Well, well, well. Jason Ede, the main figure connected to John Key’s office and the Dirty Politics black ops is back with a company with deep ties to the National Party. One thing you can say about the right –...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Leadership Transitions In Other Parties: A ...
    As cannot have escaped anyone’s attention by now, the country is presently in the grips of an election and campaign that will help determine the fate of the nation for years to come. It’s gripping stuff – with clear divides...
    The Daily Blog | 17-10
  • SkyCity worker says she faces losing her house
    SkyCity worker Carolyn Alpine told the company annual shareholder’s meeting today that she faced the prospect of losing her house because the company had cut her shifts from two a week to one without consultation. The solo mother, has worked...
    The Daily Blog | 17-10
  • Greg O’Connor’s latest push to arm cops & 5 reasons not to
    I was wondering at what point within a 3rd term of National that Police Cheerleader Greg O’Connor would start trying to demand cops be armed. O’Connor must have thought to himself, ‘if bloody Key can get us and the GCSB vast new...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • You can’t have crisis without ISIS
    So the new scary bogeyman ISIS might have chemical weapons that the US secretly found in Iraq, but America didn’t want to expose this find because the WMDs were actually built and made by the US and Europe, the two powers...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • NZ WINS UN SPIN THE BOTTLE! Privately sucking up to America for a decade me...
    Oh, we are loved! Little old NZ, the 53rd state of America after Israel and Australia, gets to sit at the adults table for the special dinner party that is the UN Security Council. How delightful, a decade of privately...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • MEDIA BLOG – Myles Thomas – A World Without Advertising
    Non-commercial broadcasting and media. It’s a solution for all manner of problems ailing our tender nation… voter engagement, unaccountable governance, apathy, stupefaction, public education, science in schools, arts appreciation, cultural cringe… But no-one could’ve guessed that non-commercial media might solve...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • March against war – 2pm Saturday 25th October
    March against war – 2pm Saturday 25th October...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • Whack a mole as US govt foreign policy
    Whack-A-Mole was a popular arcade game from my youth.  It consisted of a waist high cabinet with holes in the top. Plastic moles seemingly randomly pop out of these holes. The purpose of the game was to hit as many...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • In Paean of Debt
    This week is ‘Money Week’. It’s an opportunity to promote to the middle classes, and anyone else who will listen, the virtues of wise ‘investment’. The aims are to promote the mystical (and indeed mythical) virtues of saving for the...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • The last 48 hours – Poverty denial, war denial and unapologetic abuse of ...
    The bewildering speed of events that simply end in Key shrugging and proclaiming he doesn’t really give a shit is coming think and fast as the Government suddenly appreciate the full spectrum dominance they now enjoy. Here is Radio NZ...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Pat O’Dea – Mana 2.0 Rebooted
    Internationally the news is that Evo Morales of Bolivia won big with Left Wing policies But what are the chances that the Left will make a resurgence in this country? As the internecine struggles between the Left and the Right...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • The Blomfield IPCA letter – Has Dirty Politics leaked into the NZ Police ...
    It’s difficult to know what to make of the IPCA letter to Matthew Blomfield over Slater’s continued insistence that the hard drive taken from Matthew wasn’t stolen.  Slater has selectively cherry picked the Police referring back to his claim that Blomfeild perjured...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • ​Media release: Rail and Maritime Transport Union – Auckland move for K...
    The Rail and Maritime Transport Union is questioning a KiwiRail proposal to progressively relocate its Zero Harm personnel from Wellington to Auckland. “The purpose of the Zero Harm team is to drive KiwiRail’s performance in health and safety.  Rail is a...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • Amnesty International – Friend request from an IS militant
    There’s always that one person, that one Facebook friend, usually a musician or event promoter, who, when you so foolishly accept their friend request, will completely inundate your news feed with copious event invitations and promotions. The person who, despite...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • NZ should follow the UK and recognize the Palestinian state
    Over the past two weeks, the United Kingdom and Sweden have made headlines through their decisions to recognize the state of Palestine. They are hardly the first nations to do so. Indeed, 134 countries have, in various ways, given formal...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • The Discordant Chimes of Freedom: Why Labour has yet to be forgiven.
    WHY DOES THE ELECTORATE routinely punish Labour and the Greens for their alleged “political correctness” but not National? It just doesn’t seem fair. Consider, for example, the Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Act 2007 – the so-called “anti-smacking legislation” –...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • Hosking or Henry – Which right wing crypto fascist clown do you want to w...
    So Mediaworks are finally going to make some actual money from their eye watering contract with Paul Henry by launching a new multi-platform Breakfast show over TV, Radio and internet. This is great news for Campbell Live who have dodged...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Families need more money to reduce child poverty
    Prime Minister John Key is mistaken to rule out extending the In Work Tax Credit to all poor children (The Nation 11th Oct) and Child Poverty Action Group challenges government advisors to come up with a more cost effective way...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – Don’t shit on my dream
    Once were dreamers. A large man, walks down the road and, even from 200 yards there’s light showing between his big arms and bigger body. It’s as if he’s put tennis balls under his arms. Two parking wardens walk out...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Labour and ‘special interests’
    The media narrative of Labour is that it is unpopular because it’s controlled by ‘special interests’. This ‘special interests’ garbage is code for gays, Maoris, wimin and unionists. We should show that argument the contempt it deserves. The next Labour...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Housing; broken promises, families in cars, and ideological idiocy (Part Ru...
    . . Continued from: Housing; broken promises, families in cars, and ideological idiocy (Part Tahi) . National’s housing development project: ‘Gateway’ to confusion . Perhaps nothing better illustrates National’s lack of a coherent housing programme than the ‘circus’ that is...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Here’s what WINZ are patronisingly saying to people on welfare when they ...
    Yesterday, a case manager from WINZ called to tell me that I needed to “imagine what I would do if I did not have welfare”. I replied “Well, I guess if I couldn’t live at home, I would be homeless.”...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • David Shearer’s ‘no feminist chicks’ mentality highlights all that is...
    Mr Nasty pays a visit Shearer’s extraordinary outburst last night on NZs favourite redneck TV, The Paul Henry Show, is a reminder of all that is wrong within the Labour Caucus right now… He said the current calls for a female or...
    The Daily Blog | 13-10
  • Greenpeace 1 – Shell 0
    Greenpeace 1 – Shell 0...
    The Daily Blog | 13-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – A Tale Of Two Cities
    Sunday was surreal. I went for a drive and ended up in a different country. It wasn’t intentional but those days of too many literally intertextual references seldom are. There is no doubt that the Sunday drive this week had...
    The Daily Blog | 13-10
  • Press statement in relation to search of Nicky Hager’s home
    On 2 October 2014, Nicky Hager's home in Wellington was searched by police. Mr Hager asserted that documents kept at his house were protected by privilege, including because they contained information that might identify confidential sources....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • The Sam Simon arrives into Auckland for new campaign
    This morning Sea Shepherd ship, the Sam Simon, arrived into Auckland harbour after its journey from Melbourne. The ship and its 25 crew from around the globe have come to New Zealand to source supplies and prepare for the upcoming...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Low inflation – time for meaningful wage increases
    With inflation low, now is a good time for workers to negotiate for pay increases that outstrip price rises and deliver real increases in wages and salaries. “For too many people, real pay increases have been missing for several years...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Auckland Rates Rises Out of Control
    Responding to the NZ Herald report that Auckland ratepayers will face an average of a 29 percent rates increase, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says: “These rate rises show that Len Brown's spending is out of control.”...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Protest at New Plymouth Oil and Gas Expo
    About 30 protesters from Climate Justice Taranaki, Frack-free Kapiti, Te Uru Pounamu Action Group, Oil Free Wellington, Frack-free Manawatu and the east coast protested yesterday outside New Plymouth's biennial Oil and Gas Expo at the TSB Stadium....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • FMA warns consumers about cold-calling investment offers
    The Financial Markets Authority (FMA) is warning New Zealand consumers and investors to be wary of cold-calls asking them to buy shares or put their money into offshore firms....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Comprehensive plan needed to end child poverty
    Child Poverty Action Group says it is vital the newly re-elected National government takes a planned and comprehensive approach to reducing child poverty in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Metiria Gets Feed the Kids
    Yesterday the Speaker of the House advised that he had accepted my request to transfer my Feed the Kids (Education (Breakfast and Lunch Programmes in Schools) Amendment) Bill to Metiria Turei of the Green Party....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • DIA undercover investigation leads to jailing
    An undercover Internal Affairs investigation has led to a Hastings man being jailed for three and half years....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Call on Minister McCully to pursue the case of Balibo Five
    Media Information: Call on Minister McCully to pursue the case of journalist Gary Cunningham and the Balibo Five...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Australia and NZ actions on press freedoms alarming
    Global support for investigative journalism in Australia and New Zealand is a welcome response to law changes and a police raid, says the Pacific Freedom Forum...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Call for release of French journalists in West Papua
    West Papua Action Auckland, the EPMU Print and Media Council and the NZ Media Freedom Network call on the Minister of Foreign Affairs to speak out in support of the two French TV journalists whose trial has just begun in...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Court of Appeal: Dotcom v 20th Century Fox Film Corporation
    A The appeal is dismissed. B The 20 August 2014 order of the High Court dealing with confidentiality and the 29 August 2014 order of this Court dealing with confidentiality are set aside. C The confidentiality orders set out in...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Glassons Blasted For Glamourising Animal Cruelty
    Clothing brand Glassons have found themselves embroiled in another controversy after launching a new advert featuring a girl riding a bull. Animal advocacy organisation SAFE have asked them to remove the ad immediately as it glamourises animal cruelty....
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Smuggling honey into New Zealand isn’t sweet
    Smuggling honey into New Zealand isn’t sweet Federated Farmers Bee Industry Group applauds the tough line taken by Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) Border Staff at Auckland Airport. In deporting the couple found trying to smuggle bee products...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Taxpayers’ Union Responds to Joyce on Corporate Welfare
    Responding to Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce’s defence of corporate welfare , Jim Rose, the author of Monopoly Money , a Taxpayers Union report on corporate welfare since 2008, says:...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Speech from the Throne brings welcome focus on children
    Today’s speech from the Throne confirms the Government’s focus on children, youth and their families in the areas of health, education, youth employment, poverty alleviation and Whānau Ora; now the challenge is to ensure every child in New Zealand...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • John’s Job Fairs no fix for unemployment and poverty
    “John Key has clearly been looking to the US for his latest bright idea on dealing with employment issues,” says Auckland Action Against Poverty coordinator Sue Bradford. “Job fairs where the desperately unemployed queue in their corporate best to compete...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Speech From the Throne Foreshadows More Corporate Welfare
    Responding to the Governor General’s Speech from the Throne, which outlined that the Government’s intentions for the next Parliamentary term would include further Business Growth Agenda initiatives, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Green MP to speak at panel on Rainbow Mental Health
    Hamilton, New Zealand: Recently re-elected Green Party MP Jan Logie will be a guest speaker at a panel on the mental health of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Trangender, Takataapui and Intersex people taking place on November 1st as part of the...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Evidence Supports GE Moratorium
    Federated Farmers spokesman Graham Smith's call for a 'rethink' on release of GeneticallyEngineered organisms is misguided, and instead it is time for a formal moratorium on GMOs in the environment.(1)...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Chatham Rise mining could have impact on whales and dolphins
    Wellington, 21 October 2014--Mining phosphate on the Chatham Rise, off the east coast of New Zealand’s south island, could potentially have many impacts on marine mammals like whales and dolphins, the Environmental Protection Agency was told today....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Council endorses Nanaia Mahuta as the next Labour leader
    Te Kaunihera Māori, the Māori Council of the New Zealand Labour Party, have passed a resolution to endorse the Hon Nanaia Mahuta as the next leader of the Labour Party...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Kaumatua to organise petition to end Maori seats
    Ngapuhi kaumatua David Rankin has announced that he will be organising a nationwide petition to seek support from Maori voters to end the Maori seats. “These seats are patronising”, he says. “They imply we need a special status, and that...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Announcing a New Voice for The Left
    Josh Forman is pleased to announce the creation of a new force on the Left of politics in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Public services held back by poor workplace culture
    A new report by Victoria University’s Centre for Labour, Employment and Work shows that public servants are working significant unpaid overtime to ensure the public services New Zealanders value are able to continue....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • iPredict New Zealand Weekly Economic & Political Update
    Andrew Little’s probability of being the next leader of the Labour Party has reached 70% and Jacinda Ardern is favourite to become his deputy, according to the combined wisdom of the 8000+ registered traders on New Zealand’s predictions market, iPredict....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Prison Drug Treatment Unit marks a milestone
    Christchurch Men’s Prison’s Drug Treatment Unit (DTU) celebrated the completion of its 50th six month Drug and Alcohol Programme today, with the graduation of a further twelve offenders....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Security Council seat a chance for NZ to empower women
    The UN Women National Committee Aotearoa New Zealand (UN Women NCANZ) welcomes New Zealand winning a seat on the United Nations Security Council and is calling on New Zealand to use its position to proactively promote effective implementation of the...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Waipareira and ACC sign Partnership
    Waipareira and The Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) have signed a Memorandum of Understanding at Whanau Centre, Henderson – marking a special day for the West Auckland Urban Maori organisation....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Humanitarian aid desperately needed in Iraq and Syria
    Global Peace and Justice Auckland is calling on the government to provide humanitarian funding for non-aligned NGOs (non-governmental organisations) in the Middle East rather than give any support whatever for the US-led military campaign in the area....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Court Judicial Decision: Dotcom v The USA: 17 October 2014
    The United States of America is seeking the extradition of Messrs Dotcom, Batato, Ortmann and Van Der Kolk. The matter has been before the Courts on numerous occasions, and no further recitation of the facts is needed....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Marshall Island poet speaks at UN climate summit
    “The fossil fuel industry is the biggest threat to our very existence as Pacific Islanders. We stand to lose our homes, our communities and our culture. But we are fighting back. This coming Friday thirty Pacific Climate Warriors, joined by...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Many tourist car accidents preventable
    Simple steps could dramatically reduce the number of accidents involving tourists, says the car review website dogandlemon.com ....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • RainbowYOUTH: 25 Years, 25 More
    In 1989, a group of young people in Auckland got together to form a support group for LGBTIQ youth. They called it Auckland Lesbian And Gay Youth (ALGY). After 25 years, several location changes, a name change, a brand reboot...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Outdated Oath shows need for Kiwi Head of State
    MPs are sworn in today and New Zealand Republic has written to MPs asking them to talk about why 121 New Zealanders elected by the people of New Zealand and standing in the New Zealand Parliament swear allegiance to another...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Council shouldn’t revenue grab from windfall valuations
    Auckland Council should state clearly they will not try and capture revenue as a result of the latest valuations and needs reminding that the City’s skyrocketing property values doesn’t change the level or cost of Council’s services, says...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • EPMU endorses Andrew Little for Labour leadership
    The National Executive of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union unanimously endorsed Andrew Little for the role of Labour leader, at a meeting held yesterday. “I have been speaking to our workplace delegates at forums across the country over...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • World Food Day promotes Agroecology not GE technology
    The UN has stated that agroecology is a major solution to feeding the world and caring for the earth....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Labour Names Review Team
    Labour’s New Zealand Council has appointed Bryan Gould as Convenor of its post-General Election Review. He will be joined on the Review Team by Hon Margaret Wilson, Stacey Morrison and Brian Corban....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Contenders for Labour leadership debate for first time
    The contenders for the leadership of the Labour Party debated for the first time on TV One’s Q+A programme today....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • UN Ambassador Jim McLay on TV One’s Q+A programme
    New Zealand's United Nations Ambassador Jim McLay on TV One’s Q+A programme....
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • The Nation: RSA President BJ Clark & Ian Taylor, New NZ Flag
    Lisa Owen interviews RSA President BJ Clark and tech innovator Ian Taylor about changing the NZ flag...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • The Nation: RSA President BJ Clark & Ian Taylor, New NZ Flag
    Lisa Owen interviews RSA President BJ Clark and tech innovator Ian Taylor about changing the NZ flag...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • Lisa Owen interviews Foreign Minister Murray McCully
    Murray McCully says New Zealanders can expect a 5-10 year engagement against Islamic State if we join military action in Iraq and the government will take that “very carefully into account”...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • Lisa Owen interviews Julia Gillard
    Julia Gillard says there is “sufficient evidence” to fight Islamic State and does not think it will increase the risk of a domestic attack...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • NZ businesses to make child abuse a priority conversation
    Many leading New Zealand businesses have partnered with national child advocacy organisation Child Matters to participate in the fourth annual ‘Buddy Day’ - New Zealand’s only child abuse prevention awareness day....
    Scoop politics | 17-10
  • Tribunal decision significant for SMEs
    The Human Rights Review Tribunal decided this week in favour of an employee’s right not to work on Saturdays for religious reasons. The decision may still be appealed but the Director of the Office of Human Rights Proceedings, Robert Kee,...
    Scoop politics | 17-10
  • On The Nation this weekend
    This weekend on The Nation… New Zealand has been elected to the United Nations Security Council, but what happens next? Lisa Owen interviews Foreign Minister Murray McCully from New York about our goals for reform, what America wants from us...
    Scoop politics | 17-10
  • 1000+ supported by Te Arawa Whanau Ora
    Over 1000 individual whānau members are leading happier, healthier, more successful lives as a result of eight passionate and committed Māori organisations working at the coalface to help whānau find success....
    Scoop politics | 17-10
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