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Collins is in even more trouble?

Written By: - Date published: 3:22 pm, May 2nd, 2014 - 177 comments
Categories: Judith Collins, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

Judith-Collins-AAP-1200

A classic sign that a Minister is in trouble is if they engage in a Friday afternoon drop of information requested under the OIA.  And it seems that Judith Collins is in serious trouble.  Because it has been disclosed that she asked for a MFAT briefing before that dinner that she keeps on insisting was a private dinner.

From stuff:

Justice Minister Judith Collins’ office initially asked for a foreign affairs briefing before a controversial dinner in China with Oravida representatives and an unnamed border official.

Collins has insisted the dinner was a private affair with no official business discussed.

However, documents released to Fairfax Media under the Official Information Act show that five days before the dinner her office sought the briefing from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Mfat).

An October 15 email from her office noted:

“On Sunday, October 20, the minister will be having a dinner that will include (redacted name). He has agreed to meet with the minister arranged by Mr Stone Shi, Oravida. The minister would like ambassador Carl Worker and his wife to attend this dinner. A briefing from Mfat will be required.”

She subsequently cancelled the briefing but you have to ask why she asked for it in the first place and why she then thought it best not to receive the briefing.  Whatever the answer is the likelihood that she did not discuss official business with the unnamed Chinese Official which had a direct impact on the company her husband is a director of and who is a major donor to the National Party is becoming less and less.

Tick tock, tick tock …

 

177 comments on “Collins is in even more trouble?”

  1. Hayden 1

    It must have been a good dinner, they tipped Judy a further $30,000 in December.

    • mickysavage 1.1

      Ouch!

    • Ad 1.2

      Great hits Hayden and Mickey.

      • Bunji 1.2.1

        Surely she’s got to go now. Lying to parliament, re: setup of meeting for specific interest of massive National Party donor… How can this be defended?

        • Jim Nald 1.2.1.1

          “How can this be defended?”

          Umm, how about for the price of $86,600? And a game of golf with Key?

          (as noted below)

          Big Money talks to Natz. And Collins stays. She is a good fun(d)-raiser!

    • Naki Man 1.3

      “It must have been a good dinner, they tipped Judy a further $30,000 in December.”

      There are no secret trusts involved here, no laundered money, its been disclosed and its all above board.

      • Hayden 1.3.1

        Who suggested otherwise? (Except for the nature of the dinner, which, as you may have noticed, is the subject of some dispute) They seem to have taken lessons from John Banks and gave the largest amount possible without the donation requiring immediate disclosure.

        “Laundered money” refers to funds that have been obtained from illegal sources, so if you’re referring to Cunliffe’s anonymous donations then you should probably avoid that term unless you have some evidence of illegality.

      • Paul 1.3.2

        That’s why it was released on a Friday.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.4

      Judith Collins.

      The gift that keeps on giving.

  2. Pascal's bookie 2

    Deary me.

  3. Naki Man 3

    More wheel spinning from Mickey but still no traction with Judith Collins.

    • fender 3.1

      The big wheel will soon crush the crusher..

      tick tock tick tock…

      • Jim Nald 3.1.1

        Corrupt Collins has important wheel-spinning duties for Natz party donations :-)

        Today’s chat during office afternoon tea proceeded along the lines of –

        “Why has Maurice gone but not Judith, what is the difference?”

        “At least $58,000.”

        “And a game of golf with Key?”

        (Someone can factcheck …… Stone Shi/Oravida gave a total of at least $80,000. Donghua Liu/Roncon Pacific Hotel Mngt gave $22,000. The figures have been updated after the latest mid-afternoon news broke.)

        • Hayden 3.1.1.1

          Oravida are in for $86,600 so far, according to the article (and assuming I can add).

          • Jim Nald 3.1.1.1.1

            Indeed.

            Tip of the iceberg stuff. Standards are going down, down, down, while Natz coffers are being filled up and going up, up, up.

            What else and how much more are under the Natz deep, dark, murky waters of Big Money with Big Donors lurking?

            Go on, Key, show us your Big Donations and Big Donors!
            Nothing to hide, nothing to fear :-) :-)

        • Ben Adam 3.1.1.2

          Those are the known knowns. We don’t know about the unknown unknowns!

    • Skinny 3.2

      Hang in there girl racer Judy Dolly you have enough rubber to limp into the home straight, but the wheels of National clunker your driving will come off you won’t get across the line. But hey no one will begudge you sculling a jug of milk sharing the victory podium with Labour’s pit boss Grant Robertson. :)

  4. Red Rosa 4

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10002636/Oravidas-30-000-donation-to-National

    Was that for the milk, or the Northland logging operation?

  5. i reckon one of the final shoes/(milking-cups?) to drop..

    ..will be the i.d. of the un-named chinese official..

    ..i am picking there will be many clear lines to be drawn between the specific tasks/role of that official..

    ..and the commercial interests of oravida..

    ..i cannot think of a more compelling reason for collins to be so fixated on not revealing that name/role..

  6. Pascal's bookie 6

    Unresolved question is the advice from Cabinet Office to Key.

    Seem to recall that someone has gone to the Ombudsman to get it released, (which will take a while due to underfunding though, obvs).

    Did the Cabinet Office know Collins had asked MFAT for advice?
    Did she tell the PM?

  7. BLiP 7

    Saturday afternoon Trivia Question:

    In a speech entitled “New Zealand’s Experience in Building a Clean Government’ delivered in China, which Minister in the John Key-led National Government said . . .

    . . . But creating and maintaining a clean government requires ongoing work and constant vigilance, and even New Zealand cannot afford to be complacent.

    In New Zealand we believe clean transparent government is built on three pillars: fighting corruption, having an independent judiciary that can be trusted, and a government that promotes transparency both domestically and internationally . . .

    • fender 7.1

      “lip service”…

      “do as I say, not as I do”..

      • Jim Nald 7.1.1

        Perhaps it was the Minister of Justice who is now busy swallowing the death of integrity.

        The Prime Minister should quickly bestow her new, additional portfolios such as Minister of Truth, Minister of Honesty, and Minister of Trust.

        For her to live up to.

    • toad 7.2

      …and a government that promotes transparency both domestically and internationally…

      Guess that means she’s finally going to tell us the name and position of the “unnamed Chinese border official”?

      • Hayden 7.2.1

        He’ll be of no use to Oravida if he loses his job. But why would he lose his job (or suffer any negative consequences) for having dinner with friends? Or even friends of friends?

        • Weepu's beard 7.2.1.1

          “Close, personal friends”, no less. Must have been quite a dinner party.

    • Tracey 7.3

      it seems odd to me that no opposition member has been quoting her speech back at her.

      • Anne 7.3.1

        Parliament sits next week. Saving it…?

      • felix 7.3.2

        Pretty sure I heard that section quoted in the house the other week.

        But yeah, should be repeated and repeated and repeated.

    • Ben Adam 7.4

      To quote, Sir Walter Scott, ‘Oh what a tangled web this crooked National party and their cronies weave when at first they practice to deceive’!

      I Wonder if there is even a single person in the country, including Collins herself, that believes her story regarding Oravida!

    • Mary 7.5

      “…an independent judiciary” but only one “that can be trusted”.

      Say it all, really.

  8. chris73 8

    Mfat’s China unit policy officer, Nicholas Clutterbuck, advised that “while the dinner can be regarded as private, the minister cannot make unplanned/uncommunicated travel movements around Beijing during her stay”.

    Asked why there was an initial request for a briefing before the dinner, and then it changed, Collins said:”My office naturally asks for briefings for everything but it was a private dinner so it wasn’t needed.”

    ”My office naturally asks for briefings for everything but it was a private dinner so it wasn’t needed.”

    • Hayden 8.1

      He has agreed to meet with the minister arranged by Mr Stone Shi, Oravida.

      He has agreed to meet with the minister arranged by Mr Stone Shi, Oravida.

      Doesn’t really sound like a friendly private dinner, does it? I guess the border official must have been single, otherwise it’s odd that they didn’t invite his wife.

      • chris73 8.1.1

        Badly handled yes by Collins however as Mfat’s China unit policy officer, Nicholas Clutterbuck, advised: “while the dinner can be regarded as private, the minister cannot make unplanned/uncommunicated travel movements around Beijing during her stay”.

        So slap on the wrist for Collins

        • Hayden 8.1.1.1

          As I read it, MFAT’s advice was given before the dinner in regards to Collins’ movements. The timeline appears to be:

          Collins’ office requests MFAT briefing re now unnamed Chinese official.

          Collins goes to China

          MFAT go “Hey, do you want that briefing? How about some transport?”

          Collins says “Actually, it’s a private dinner, so no thanks.”

          Clutterbuck says “It can be regarded as a private, but you cannot make unplanned/uncommunicated travel movements” note the use of “cannot”, implies immediacy

          Collins goes to dinner.

          Oravida make large donation (coincidentally within the limit for immediate disclosure) to National Party

        • Tracey 8.1.1.2

          wonder why she wasnt transparent about all this right from the beginning if… as you suggest… she had nothing to hide.

          you told people to lay off winston and clark over the owen glenn thing aye chris…

          Buwahahahaha

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 8.2

      Collins is playing on cultural ignorance. A private dinner in China has similar, yet substantially more connotations.

      One word: Guanxi

    • Tracey 8.3

      funny they didnt know. perhaps it was the invite to the ambassador that confused them and the border official who spoke a language collins doesnt understand.

  9. toad 9

    Bring on the John Banks trial.

    That should be the last straw for ridding ourselves of these corrupt, cronyist, venal plutocrats.

  10. Jim 10

    The Collins/ Key Oravida is the never ending story that just keeps giving. Collins has obviously lied to parliament, so watch out for next week. Yes and there is a lot more to come out yet. John Key is very involved in this, and he needs to be the main target in coming weeks. Sacking Collins if it happens will not make it go away, it will just turn the heat on John Key and his involvement in the whole Oravida scandal.

  11. chrissy 11

    So in what sense is it possible for Collins to call this a ‘private’ dinner? It was clearly specifically set up to be an official dinner, with a Chinese official, commanded attendance from the Ambassador and his wife, an MFAT briefing.

    Then at some point Collins decided- was in fact told- that it wasnt to be an official dinner, and that the NZ ambassador wouldnt be attending… So, a dinner which was to have been official is now much less clear: but is it now in fact private?

    She might like to represent it as such: but clearly, it still involves her (travelling to China as Minister of Justice), her executive assistant, and a Chinese border official. And Oravida’s Stone Shi. No ambassador, and doubtless a ‘private’ discussion away from the Ambassador’s ‘official’ ears: but private in the official/ private sense, now? My god its a big stretch.

    Everyone official would have seen she was skating over the line in commanding the Ambassador to attend and the briefing.

    But in my mind, and doubtless others’, simply uninviting the ambassador and cancelling the briefing doesnt make it entirely private, not at all.

    She should at least acknowledge it for what it was: a public turned ‘private’ meeting. or, in my estimation ‘but not quite turned private’, in that the official was still there, and so was the Minister etc, with all that signifies in China (ie, official power). A private meeting, then, that still applied the requisite official impression on the official, and left the rest of us struggling to believe nothing about Oravida was ‘privately’ discussed with the official official.

    A meeting, I would say, that she wasnt prepared to renounce, even when MFAT people told her what she was proposing was an abuse of official power they wouldnt be part of. A meeting she hung onto, for all its unclarity and basic ‘officialness’, still seeking to influence things Oravida’s way? A meeting she thought she could get away with calling private, now, even as she met the Chinese official?

    • dv 11.1

      AND
      Does she speak Mandarin? to her close friend the border official?

      Williamson could could not talk to Liu so Liu couldn’t be a friend.

      • Jim Nald 11.1.1

        What has Pansy been up to these days?

      • Tracey 11.1.2

        c aide said people couldnt understand each other… doesnt seem like the usual definition of friend. mind you it might be in the national party.

    • Sacha 11.2

      Collins did not “uninvite” the ambassador.
      He was ethical and smart enough to do that himself.

      In fact, what’s the timeline on him refusing and her office rescinding the MFAT briefing?

  12. irascible 12

    Judith Collins- the national albatross hanging around Key’s unethical neck. Corruption appears to be acceptable under Key’s governance… from Pansy Wong onwards this is a government proving to be the most questionable in NZ history.

  13. One Anonymous Bloke 13

    The National Party must find some way to distance itself from Judith Collins before she does more damage.

  14. ScottGN 14

    Collins’ isn’t going to resign and Key ain’t gonna sack her – to do either now would fatally undermine the Nats re-election chances. The problem for Key (and Joyce who’s tasked with the election strategy) is that the longer Collins stays is now as toxic an option as sacking her.

    • Skinny 14.1

      Yes I agree caught between a rock and a hard place. This week National have been like a possum stunned frozen in the head lights.

      I feel a protest march is inorder since the Minister of Higher Standards-John Key won’t disclose the details of the boarder official his Minister of Milking It-Judith Collins met with.

      A anti cronie capitalism rally at Cornwall Park followed by a march to the nearby Chinese Embassy on Great South road, with a petition to be presented, seeking the detainment of the Chinese Boarder Official to be interviewed seeking information as to any preferential treatment given to Oravida Limited.

      • srylands 14.1.1

        I can’t tell if you are joking about the last part. I assume so.

        • Skinny 14.1.1.1

          What the rally/protest or have I got the company name wrong is there a 2012 or something in the company name? Don’t worry the paperwork will be correct if that’s the case. Apart from that I’m serious. I organise protests, pickets, rallies the old husting meetings on a regular basis. This one would be ideal for a Saturday or Sunday be quite nice promoted as a picnic gathering in the park prior, good for those with kids too. Great for me I can walk from my family’s on Gardner rd. I’ll do the media liaison as per usual.
          Be worth a go plenty of switch off votes to the Government.

      • BLiP 14.1.2

        . . . A anti cronie capitalism rally at Cornwall Park followed by a march to the nearby Chinese Embassy on Great South road, with a petition to be presented, seeking the detainment of the Chinese Boarder Official to be interviewed seeking information as to any preferential treatment given to Oravida Limited . . .

        Yep, I’d be in for that, although I would also request that the Chinese Government investigate the financial affairs of the Border Control Official and other government contacts Oravida has been dealing with. We know Oravida has no qualms about corrupting our own government ministers and, well, lets face facts, the greasing of palms is an unfortunate aspect of Sino business life. Thing is, the Chinese government acts fairly swiftly when officials are drawing attention to the Fǔbài Way by being clumsy about it. It would be handy if we could identify the official concerned. Is it someone as high up in the General Administration of Quality Supervision Inspection and Quarantine as, say, Wei Chuanzhong or Mei Kebao? Perhaps Oravida’s connection go as high as Wang Yong?? Or what about Xiang Yuzhang, it could have been him.

        • Skinny 14.1.2.1

          Jolly good, doubt it would be too much hassle getting a couple of thousand concerned citizens along.

          Yes I agree the Chinese Government will act swiftly, they take a dim view of officials that may bring their administration into disrepute, especially Internationally.
          Unfortunately for Shrillands and his ACT party mates their local Epsom MP old Bent Bankie has precluded them from joining in, can’t have any conflicts of interest spoiling the day. Oh well they can watch the goings on the 6.pm News.

    • toad 14.2

      Indeed. Key is in a real bind now. Having not sacked Collins when her very real – not just a perception – conflict of interest was revealed, he is now lumbered with her as an albatross around his neck all the way to the election, just as Clark was with Peters over the Owen Glenn donation saga.

    • srylands 14.3

      She is not going to get sacked because she has done nothing wrong. You sound hysterical.

      • McFlock 14.3.1

        lol
        keep grasping at those straws, SSpylands

      • felix 14.3.2

        She has used her Ministerial office to advance her own business interests.

        She has repeatedly lied to Parliament and the public to cover it up.

        That may be “nothing wrong” in your country srylands, but it won’t fly here in kiwiland.

        • srylands 14.3.2.1

          Felix there is no evidence that she has done anything wrong. I suggest you enrol in an anger management course

          • Stephanie Rodgers 14.3.2.1.1

            When you have to use moves like painting people’s comments as ‘hysterical’ and ‘angry’ it really shows how insecure your argument is.

          • Tracey 14.3.2.1.2

            I suggest you enrol in an english comprehension course so you can under stand the difference between wrong and illegal.

            The market says noooooooooo.
            slylands

      • emergency mike 14.3.3

        Yes. Maybe srylands is right. These are not the droids we are are looking for…

        • McFlock 14.3.3.1

          Maybe.
          But maybe that funny looking little one has the stolen plans…

      • Skinny 14.3.4

        I must admit the laughter was quite hysterical after Williamson told of his handy man skills on holiday home of his friends.

        Forget about Collins she is fine, there is bigger fish to fry. By the time Key gets to the leaders debate he will be burnt milk. He is already looking like an old wineo these days. Stress is not his friend and there is plenty of that coming starting in the house next week. And the press are circling like vultures sensing the death of a Government. Tough times ahead.

      • Tracey 14.3.5

        you read like someone who doesnt understand the difference between wrong and illegal.

        slylands

        the market will determine if ms collins has done anything wrong. market says nooooooo.

  15. Tanz 15

    will this affect the election result? Probably not, Key seems to be one lucky dude.

    • Skinny 15.1

      I don’t think Chinese Kiwi’s will be thinking of testing if Key’s luck is going to continue. I was speaking to one today who said all this bad press of corruption talk will keep the already low numbers of Chinese Kiwi’s who vote away.

      Paranoid of association by voting for National.

  16. ScottGN 16

    You reckon? This week may well come to be seen as the turning point for this government.

    • chris73 16.1

      and how many times has that been said about John Keys National government, this’ll all blow again

      • felix 16.1.1

        Turn it up.

        The Slater boy is very quiet on this. Under strict instructions no doubt.

        • Tracey 16.1.1.1

          the poster boy for bringing corruption in politics to the light is silent? must be upset he didnt break the stories…

          oh wait….

          • srylands 16.1.1.1.1

            What corruption would that be? You are being hysterical. There is no evidence of any wrong doing by Collins at all. Nil. Maurice was a twit. It doesn’t mean he was corrupt.

            Get out and visit countries where there really is corruption. You are behaving like the worst elements of the US Republicans who hounded the Clinton presidency. Pick an issue. Make a mountain out of a mole hill. Build a bigger mountain. Until the allegations get their own momentum. Your rhetoric and those of your Green fellows is pure right wing tactics. They should have no place in New Zealand.

            • fender 16.1.1.1.1.1

              Open your eye(s) srylands, the corruption is obvious.

              Collins must go, TINA.

            • Tracey 16.1.1.1.1.2

              go away slylands with your market induced confusion between illegal and wrong.

            • felix 16.1.1.1.1.3

              Yes indeed, there is corruption elsewhere in the world that is worse that we have here.

              Therefore until corruption in NZ is equal to or worse than the worst corruption in the world…

              …we should all just keep quiet.

              Got that, folks? Until it’s equal to the worst in the world. :roll:

              ditto poverty. :roll:

              ditto violence. :roll:

              ditto fraud. :roll:

              etc

              And that’s what we call “Ambushus fu Noo Ziln”

            • Craig Glen Eden 16.1.1.1.1.4

              Real corruption as opposed to …………….. just corruption.

      • Tracey 16.1.2

        and you will vote for them again cos you dont give a shit about this behaviour and the leaders lies as long as you can still see the carrot dangling just beyond your grasp.

  17. i wonder if collins has told key that she will take him down with her..?

  18. Redzone 18

    All of the above.
    Great to see this back on the menu again. I was having withdrawals and MW didn’t really do it for me . Next week should prove to be fascinating. Looking forward to the main course. The appetiser has been juicy…what a lovely “private ” dinner with close friends we are having!

    Collins your horror vida milkshake will not be over until you go the right thing. Can you do it? No? Key -how bout you? Can you fire her. No? That’s right you are deep in this shit too.
    Actually don’t fire her – keep trying to defend her and make this dinner last a little longer. I don’t want to go home yet, having too much fun!

    • blue leopard 18.1

      Yes…very enjoyable watching National crumble, painfully and slowly, piece by piece …National are a trainwreck….almost worth all the torture they put us through….almost

      • freedom 18.1.1

        National are more like a 58 car pile up on one of their roads of freight-run significance.
        With a train wreck, the clean up can often be straightforward and progress quickly resumed.
        It is going to take decades to recover the survivors, let alone clear the wreckage strewn across NZ over the past two terms.

        If we can at all

  19. freedom 19

    Reality is though, there was that meeting with JK that preceded the no more surprises statement.
    After which the PM said Collins has told him everything. As there are no notes from the meeting (conveniently) they both simply say [insert new information here] was discussed at the time.

    By not immediately demanding any specifics of the meeting’s dialogue, the MSM have once again let the Government create any retro-use declaration they want to about anything, anywhere, any time there is new Oravida info discovered.

    Message Control 101 and credit where it is due, JK and co play the media like the pros they.

  20. felix 20

    Remember this? http://www.3news.co.nz/Collins-taxpayer-funded-petrol-bills-top-11000/tabid/419/articleID/209944/Default.aspx

    Paddy asks Collins why the public bought her husband $11,000 worth of petrol to burn in a publicly owned car that he drives to work. It’s worth another look for 3 reasons:

    1) Because it’s another example of Collins using the privileges of public office to advance her and her family’s private interests.

    2) Because her smug “within the rules” answers demonstrate her utter contempt for transparency and accountability.

    3) Because Paddy nearly makes her cry, and it’s awesome when bullies and cheats break and cry.

  21. fisiani 21

    Please please keep asking Judith questions. She will bat them away as usual because nothing has changed. Of course this will be the great triumph as she breaks down in tears Meanwhile the election gets closer and closer. Robertson gets to look good and The Cunliffe beams. Problem is no one cares. No one.

    • joe90 21.1

      Problem is no one cares. No one.

      Thing is fizzy perception is all that matters and the seed that’s been sown is the notion that it’s a done deal – National is the party bought, paid for and wholly owned by wealthy mainland business people.

      • srylands 21.1.1

        A perception that is rubbish. You know it has no basis yet you are happy to promote propaganda.

        • McFlock 21.1.1.1

          So says the king of delusional categorical pronouncements. You just have absolutely no self-awareness whatsoever, do you?

          The behaviour of Collins and Williamson would seem to be what we in the real world call “evidence”. Intervening in a criminal case andthe Oravida Tour, both coincidentally seemed to benefit personal interests and party donors.

        • Mary 21.1.1.2

          What do think Collins is doing with all her crap about Ross Robertson? Collins needs medical help.

        • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1.3

          A perception that has been further reinforced by the NAct MP Maurice Williamson. you may not like it but that happens to be the truth.

    • Mary 21.2

      Well fizzy, up until Collins trying to drag Ross Robertson into all of this I didn’t really give a stuff either. Your mates Key, Joyce, Collins, Bridges, Ross and others are such lying conniving scum they’ve created a culture within the right-wing where getting away with bare-faced bullshitting earns them a badge of honour and the more money’s involved the greater respect they get. But now that Collins is crying to mummy with all this crap involving Ross Robertson I’m beginning to care, and not because of all this Orivida rubbish, but because it proves she’s a fucking sociopath who’s unfit to be a member of parliament let alone in government.

  22. georgecom 22

    Is this perhaps a turning point for the Nat Govt. Tonight news was cynical about the stuff oozing out of the government. Favours, donations, money for favours, money getting access the normal person cannot. Williamson, Collins and Key all covered by the same tar brush. Might be the trigger for a shift in the govts support, people getting tired of all the shady dealings.

  23. Jrobin 23

    Judith has one crowning glory though, she succeeded in making the ever stony Mary Wilson giggle. A must listen (Checkpoint Friday) as the claims become ever more farcical Ms Wilson begins to crack up. Priceless. Judith the Queen of Hearts fromAlice in Wonderland now has serious competition. Only now it may be her head on a plate.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1

      Wilson mocks Collins directly. The sign off is particularly dismissive :lol:

      • Jim Nald 23.1.1

        Collins is losing it big time. The lies are poorly constructed and sound bloody puerile. Her falseness is now really transparent!

      • coolas 23.1.2

        “.. that (liar) was Judith Collins, the Justice Minister.”

        Yep, big licks to Mary Wilson.

      • freedom 23.1.3

        There have been many comments from Judith Collins about her lack of awareness of Oravida’s business.

        I am single, (who’s really surprised? ;) ) so probably lacking in the full comprehension of the finer details, but I find this mantra of ignorance a bit sad. Oravida is a big part of her husband’s world. Every couple I know have clear understandings of the other’s days. They are interested in and supportive (or combative) of the decisions they are facing. Especially when addressing the difficulties or successes of their significant other’s world.

        guess some couples just don’t talk enough :(

      • Weepu's beard 23.1.4

        She should really have asked Collins why, when her own husband (and close, personal friend no doubt) is a director, she didn’t know a thing about Oravida’s $30K donation to the Natzi party in December 2013.

        Mary tried hard but got too worked up to make a dent.

    • Bearded Git 23.2

      And Grant Robertson nicely sums up the glaringly obvious cronyism in the interview before the Milky-Bar Minister comes on.

  24. tricledrown 24

    Aron Gilmore unfairly dismissed while Keys Cronies get off with a demotion.

  25. Brian 25

    How is this woman still in parliament? More neck than a homeless turtle.

    • chris73 25.1

      How is this woman still in parliament?

      Because she did nothing wrong, is respected and (hopefully) is the next leader of National (and NZ of course)

      • TheContrarian 25.1.1

        “(hopefully) is the next leader of National (and NZ of course)”

        That’ll never happen. National will tank if Collins is leader. She has no charisma and has all the warmth of a rattlesnake.

        • chris73 25.1.1.1

          In your opinion, in my opinion she’d make a fine, strong leader of NZ

          • TheContrarian 25.1.1.1.1

            Yeah but in an election we are not talking about your opinion but a majority opinion. And, though I am going out on a bit of a limb here, I think you’ll find the majority wouldn’t find her to attractive as PM.

            • chris73 25.1.1.1.1.1

              I think NZ likes strong, capable female leaders so I disagree

              • Pascal's bookie

                “strong, capable female leaders”

                Collins gets 3 strikes on that then. She is a woman, so it’s not a complete 0/4.

              • yeah..we’re all jonesing for a female latter-day muldoon..

                ..to bark and snarl at us each and every nite..

                ..dream on..!

                ..both collins and joyce are unelectable..

                ..which is why bennett is practising her karate moves/chops..

                ..she sees herself leading the opposition national into the ’17 election..

                ..so it’d be her or bridges..

                ..the next generation of the unelectables..

                ..national are quite spoilt for bad choices..

                ..aren’t they..?

                ..and i guess to disprove the truth that part of being a rightwinger is having a sense of humour byepass at birth..

                ..that this is part of the package..

                ..a joke-candidate cd stand..

                ..can i nominate foss-the-hapless..?

                ..that’ll raise a laugh or two..

                ..around the traps..

                • chris73

                  I’m sure you’re making some really good points but its difficult to follow what you’re trying to say

                  • is there a semi-literate adult around who could explain it for/to you..?

                    ..would drawing/pictures/visual-aids help..?

                    ..i’ll try and simplify it for you..

                    ..joyce..collins..bennett..bridges..

                    ..all unelectable..

                    ..foss-the-hapless is a joke..

                    ..(and commiserations on yr s.o.h.-byepass at birth..eh..?..

                    ..a life without being able to cackle at the clowns..

                    ..must be a grim/grey affair..)

                    • chris73

                      Heres the thing, you want to type like that and thats cool but don’t take it to heart when some people don’t get what you’re on about

                    • and given the actual number of cars crushed..

                      ..her crusher-moniker is just part of the cloud of total bullshit she peddles..

                  • Paul

                    For once, I agree with you c73

              • miravox

                “I think NZ likes strong, capable female leaders”

                Collin’s is more Shipley than Clark, don’t you think? And not many voted for Shipley.

      • Brian 25.1.2

        She has clearly used her ministerial position for personal and party gain and she has the proverbial snowballs chance of ever leading this country and for that we can be grateful.

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 25.1.2.1

          Brian +1

        • Red Rosa 25.1.2.2

          +1.

          And every day she stays in office is another nail in the coffin for the Nats, this election.

          Minister of Justice? Justice?? Hilarious.

          • Clemgeopin 25.1.2.2.1

            The other potential ‘leaders’ in the party must be rubbing their hands in glee to become the next leader of the National party as soon as Key takes off to Hawaii.

            The internal tussle between the very ‘efficient’ and ‘honourable’ remaining MPs such as Joyce, English, Brownlee, Tolley, Bridges, Bennett, Guy, Bhakshi would be a treat to watch…..or may be they might wait to get some other unknown wealthy foreign exchange currency gambler from somewhere else to wreck more havoc again here! Hope not!

      • Mary 25.1.3

        I hope she’s the next leader of the national party, too. What a hoot that’d be?!!!

  26. TheContrarian 26

    Collins should step down in lieu of a full independent investigation.

  27. Tanz 27

    so, there is corrupiton in NZ politics. thught so.

    • chris73 27.1

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/2720587/Taito-Phillip-Field-guilty

      “Taito Phillip Field, the first New Zealand politician to be convicted of corruption, faces up to seven years in prison.”

      Always has been

      • RedLogix 27.1.1

        Glad you mentioned Mr Feild as some sort of benchmark for misusing his Parliamentary role.

        At the time it was reliably estimated that he’d personally benefited by maybe as much as $55,000 by having the tiler do various works for him.

        Now if Oravida benefits by potentially tens of millions because Collins misuses her role as Minister of Justice to leverage special access terms – how long a prison sentence do you think this should attract chris?

        Just an estimate will do.

        • chris73 27.1.1.1

          it should attract whatever sentence is legally passed which of course won’t happen because Collins did nothing wrong and as much as the left would like to she did fortunately it means diddly squat

          • Tracey 27.1.1.1.1

            you understand elected reps can do wrong but not break the law? in some circles people call this morality or ethical values.

            then theres the cabinet manual that the pm seems to have finally aquainted himself with

            ” Key said the event clearly breached the Cabinet manual, but had already paid for it. “

          • felix 27.1.1.1.2

            Red said “if”. He’s asking for your opinion on a hypothetical situation.

            (Using Field’s $55k as a benchmark, how long a jail sentence do you think would be appropriate if Collins were found guilty of corruption amounting to tens of millions?)

            So now that you’re armed with a full understanding of what the question is, you can have another go.

            • chris73 27.1.1.1.2.1

              You can’t compare apples with oranges, what did Field did is a lot worse then what (for arguements sake) Collins has done

              • RedLogix

                How?

                As I said Field’s personal benefit was relatively modest in the scale of things. It involved one other person’s illegal interaction with an MP. By contrast Collins as a the Minister for Justice – interacting in a potentially illegal manner with the officials of another country, over a matter that carries considerable economic and political implications for New Zealand.

                At this stage we can only speculate on the potential benefit to Oravida – and how it might accrue to Collins – but given the scale these dairy businesses operate at I’m struggling to see how ‘what Field did (is) a lot worse’.

                • chris73

                  Its difference because was using the tiler as slave labour whereas Collins (for the sake of the argument) may have got some extra business for a company her husband is involved with

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    …for a company the National Party is donkey deep in. FIFY

                    • chris73

                      Allegedly

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Not allegedly. Key models for advertising campaigns, Collins allows herself to be paraded in front of border guards like bloodstock in front of investors, somehow government departments end up sharing a building with them.

                      These are not allegations. They’re colourful descriptions of some very dodgy goings on.

                      I’m sure Labour did it too, somehow, and yep that was wrong too.

                      You can figure out what kind of wrongdoing politicians get up to by reading their rulebook: no-one makes up rules about stuff that never happens, Chris.

                    • chris73

                      Meh its just politics as normal

                    • Clemgeopin

                      @Chris73

                      Corruption in a supposedly ‘least corrupt’ country just
                      ‘politics as normal’?

                    • chris73

                      Except this isn’t corruption even though the left would like it to be

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Sorry Chris, yeah, it is corruption.

                      I don’t mean by that that Key and Collins are necessarily venal people looking to do evil at every turn.

                      I mean that the law around political donations is so full of holes you can drive a fat German truck through, unless you’re John Banks in which case you crash it into a ditch.

                      It’s an invitation for them to make politicians of themselves and take the money. All of them. Time out.

                    • chris73

                      Well thats an argument I can agree with, so whats the solution?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Is it not blindingly obvious. If the problem is private money in politics the answer is…?

                      They’re administrators, how much money will make them more competent?

                    • chris73

                      If you’re suggesting funding for political parties out of tax payers money I’m not down with that at all

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Tax payers’ money is just private money minus private influence.

                      They’re administrators.

                    • chris73

                      Be that as it may if a party can’t convince people to donate money based on its own merits I don’t see why they should get it from tax payers money as a right

                    • Paul

                      @chris they get funding based on their support.
                      So your ACT mates wouldn’t get much.

                    • chris73

                      I’m saying there shouldn’t be any so not sure what your point is (or if in fact you’re trying to make a point)

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Yeah, Chris, because people just dip into their pockets and fund political parties out of altruism. Naivety is cute, but not that cute.

                    • felix

                      “if a party can’t convince people to donate money based on its own merits…”

                      Cool, that’s fair because parties with policies that appeal to rich people are intrinsically more worthy of funding than parties with policies that don’t.

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      If you’re suggesting funding for political parties out of tax payers money I’m not down with that at all

                      Wait, you’re saying that the only people who should be able to fund political parties are those who don’t pay tax?

                      That’s just fucking daft.

                  • freedom

                    hi chris73,
                    As you were discussing political party funding I thought I would drop this off. Happy to hear what you think. It was first posted during your ban. http://thestandard.org.nz/corrosive-anti-democratic-power-of-big-money/#comment-807974

                    Obviously it would be well into next term before a solid idea would be presented to anyone in any detail, but it is something to ponder in the meantime. I sincerely want input from people on the concept. Having a had a handful of real world discussions on it with various people to date, I have realised it is the stark simplicity of the idea that seems to initially throw people. Once that has been overcome the conversations’ [momentum of interest] swiftly shifts to the positive. I believe it is a viable method of funding politics in New Zealand and that it is fair, transparent, and accountable.

              • David H

                Are you drunk or something C73 what Collins IS STILL doing, is way worse than TPF getting free tiling work.

        • Tracey 27.1.1.2

          actually field is a benchmark for criminal behaviour by politicians.

          there is a lower threshold for ethical and moral transgressions, despite the right pretending this doesnt exist. funny given their standing ovation when key made this rousing statement about the high standards he would have for ministers.

      • David H 27.1.2

        @C73 I just want to back you up a sec here to your last comment with the link to the Nat donation page, and this little gem at the bottom of the page.

        “I am an overseas donor. I understand that overseas donations must be less than or equal to $NZ1500″

        So why (and how are they getting around this limit) is Stone Shi and other wealthy CHINESE giving 10’s of thousands in donations, when the LIMIT is (and it’s on their own page) $1500?

  28. captain hook 28

    Collins main problem is that she has a fathead and no matter what sort of trick cyclist or headshrinker she engages it wont go down.

  29. NickK 29

    It’s a lot like this: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=2874

    Similarly eerie except Collins is not PM.

  30. McGrath 30

    It was not like this $30k donation was hidden. The only ones interested in this story are the political tragics. Outside in the real world, the average Joe and Jane don’t really give that much of a toss about this story.

  31. Red Rosa 31

    Now, Prime Minister, about your photo in the Oravida ad.

    Would you mind just explaining that again?

    We know it’s all legal and OK by you. Not endorsing the product of course, no, no….

    A subtle point, but the plebs are having some bother with it. Can you put them straight?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9944178/John-Key-OK-with-photo-on-Oravida-ad

    Over to you, Mr Key….

    • One Anonymous Bloke 31.1

      I’m relaxed about it. It’s a private company that asked me to pose for a photo, in exchange for a monetary donation to my party, which is why we were all there in the first place, and that’s what we do.

  32. Owl 32

    Labour may cry crocodile tears over corporate donations to National but they ignore their own political corruption by involving themselves with unions. While the demand answers over private dinners perhaps they might like to declare all the “private dinners” they have with union bosses, declare all the union resources they share and come clean how much influence and input unions have in their policy making.

    It will make a dinner in Beijing seem rather small beer if Labour came clean on all that.

    • mickysavage 32.1

      Why is that Owl? I have read your stuff on the union movement and I am certain you have no idea what support the unions give Labour.

  33. Clemgeopin 33

    The Justice minister has been very unjust to an ordinary person by naming her and unjustly sullying her reputation for some cheap point scoring. What a disgrace! Collins deserves to be sacked for this callous behaviour alone.

    I am referring to her shocking disgusting behaviour today: See this news report and the video:
    http://www.3news.co.nz/Judith-Collins-takes-swing-at-Press-Gallery-journalist/tabid/1607/articleID/342712/Default.aspx#disqus_thread

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