web analytics
The Standard
Advertising

Collins is out of control

Written By: - Date published: 8:25 am, May 5th, 2014 - 230 comments
Categories: john key, Judith Collins, Kelvin Davis, national, same old national - Tags: ,

Grumpy Judith Collins

Let’s see if you hold your own people to account, shall we, after what you’ve done to Maurice.

I never thought that I would ever utter the phrase “go Judith go!” but after watching her on TVone and TV3 news last night that phrase left my lips.

Because, in my humble opinion, Collins is causing significant damage to National’s re-election chances.

She seems to think that the sacking/resignation of Maurice Williamson is unfair.  This, in my opinion, shows that her judgment is clouded.  Williamson’s approaching the police about the prosecution of someone who was not a constituent and who was a major donor to the National Party is wrong at so many levels.  As I noted previously the Cabinet Manual is very explicit, Ministers should in no way involve themselves in decisions concerning Police Prosecutions.  Williamson’s resignation/sacking was almost inevitable and completely justified.

Collins’ attacks on Labour’s Ross Robertson and then on Katie Bradford are frankly weird.  A Member of Parliament talking to her about his daughter or a reporter expressing concern that her husband may have been overlooked because his mother in law is a political activist are not in breach of anything and in fact at a human level they are the sorts of things that the Minister for the Police could and should expect people to talk to her about.

But it appears that Collins cannot see this.  Even if she thinks that it is all unfair her decision to attack a senior member of the media five months out from an election is bizarre.  And her decision to attack publicly is breathtaking.

The treatment by the media in response shows this. These are some of the headlines that I have seen:

Key defends Govt’s relationship with media after Collins targets TVNZ reporter

Judith Collins takes swing at Press Gallery journalist

Judith Collins lashes out at political reporter

Collins apologises to TV journalist

And these are from the four largest media outlets in the country.  Why you would without proper justification attack a respected political reporter and risk the ire of the Press Gallery is beyond me.

News from National’s Northern Conference has been completely obliterated.   The only other headline I saw was one from Bill English’s speech suggesting that Labour can still win this year’s election.  How true is that.

The Media’s response to Collins was immediate.  TVOne followed the story about Collins with one on Kelvin Davis which was worthy but it was very unusual that it would be given such priority.  Kelvin and Labour will love receiving the publicity.

And to top it all it was revealed by TV3 that Oravida Kauri Ltd, a subsidiary of Oravida is engaged in the extraction and export of swamp Kauri.  When asked about what she thought of the environmental damage caused to wetlands Collins said that she was not the Minister responsible for wetlands and she did not care.

Collins has issued an apology of sorts via twitter.  If she wants to make a proper one she should ask a Catholic because Twitter is hardly the way to make a fulsome apology.

So what does John Key do?  If he fires her then there will be significant repercussions and I am sure that National’s factional fissures will become evident.  If he does not fire her then the MSM will no doubt investigate the Oravida scandal probably with increased gusto.  And Key will continue to worry every time Collins says something public.  There are no upsides here.

As a minimum I would expect Collins to be put on stress leave.  And she must be close to the stage where her continued membership of Cabinet will no longer be an option.

230 comments on “Collins is out of control”

  1. Gruntie 1

    Judyth For PM – at least with her we all know she is a dodgy liar – what you see is what you get – unlike the current one

    • Scotty 1.1

      Surly wee sausage.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1

        Even Fairfax are putting the boot in:

        “Key said it was acceptable for a member of the public to raise matters with ministers about policing matters, something which was totally different to Williamson phoning a senior police officer on behalf of a Chinese businessman who had made a large donation to the National Party.”

        Slippery’s too close to this issue, what with his face all over the advertising.

        National needs a new leader. A strong leader. A leader who isn’t tainted by all the petty incompetences and brain fades, the forgetfullness, the slurring and the ridiculous clowning around on catwalks and chat shows.

        That winning smile says it all. All the way with JC in 2014!

        • toad 1.1.1.1

          National needs a new leader. A strong leader. A leader who isn’t tainted by all the petty incompetences and brain fades, the forgetfullness, the slurring and the ridiculous clowning around on catwalks and chat shows

          You mean Paula Bennett? God help us all!

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.1.1

            Judith must prevail. Slippery’s sloppy management caused this whole problem. He didn’t back her from the start, fell back on the weak “Cabinet” “Manual” excuse while those hateful newshounds and that awful Cunliffe went about their business.

            Leaders have to be strong. Judith is strong.

        • Tracey 1.1.1.2

          the fish rots from the head first.

          wait for key to be painted as some kind of victim of recalcitrant ministers rather than

          monkey see monkey do

          wow. just wow@ collins last night on the news. was she suppressing a smile/laugh.

          • freedom 1.1.1.2.1

            that unstable smile seemed more like a bully’s smarm,
            painted on with vitriol and bound by innate belief in her own righteousness

        • Clemgeopin 1.1.1.3

          [Re:National needs a new leader. A strong leader. A leader who isn’t tainted by all the petty incompetences and brain fades, the forgetfullness, the slurring and the ridiculous clowning around on catwalks and chat shows]

          Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi.

          • poem 1.1.1.3.1

            Bakshi is as dodgy as they come, he is a crook just like the rest of the nats under john key.

      • Bearded Git 1.1.2

        Granny poll has 53% Crusher should step down. This from Herald readers! She’s a goner.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.1

          We must defend Judith :D

          • Clemgeopin 1.1.2.1.1

            Yes, she must stay for the sake of a better New Zealand. Even Key thinks so. Good on you Jude. You go girl!

            • David H 1.1.2.1.1.1

              Especially with her literally saying she don’t care if Oravida Kauri LTD rip up the wetlands to get at the Kauri logs and ship them to China. This also has to be a biggie with the Greens and conservationists. Just to add another straw to the camels back.

              “And then we moved onto revelations from 3rd Degree that another company her husband is a director of, Oravida Kauri, has been digging up swamp Kauri to eventually send offshore. She told us to “mind your own business”.

              “Has that got anything to do with me? Am I the minister of wetlands? So go and find someone who cares about this, because I don’t.”

              http://www.3news.co.nz/Judith-Collins-takes-swing-at-Press-Gallery-journalist/tabid/1607/articleID/342712/Default.aspx

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                You see? Judith is strong. Watch what happens to “environmentalists” when she’s in charge.

                • poem

                  Judith Collins is an idiot and an egomaniac. Its election year, and she has just hammered some more nails into her political coffin.

        • Clemgeopin 1.1.2.2

          And on the STUFF poll,

          Q: Can Judith Collins stay on as a minister?

          Yes, the controversy doesn’t affect how she works
          121 votes, 19.9%

          Yes, but only just
          58 votes, 9.5%

          No, it’s the last straw and she should resign
          429 votes, 70.6%

          Total 608 votes

          See here:
          http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10007952/Pressure-on-Collins-following-outburst

          • fisiani 1.1.2.2.1

            The Upside for National is that Labour will waste another weeks worth of questions without making any progress at all.

            • mickysavage 1.1.2.2.1.1

              Is that it? Is this the extent of the RWNJ response to what has been the most sustained attack on a senior National Party figure in years?

            • Kaplan 1.1.2.2.1.2

              Brilliant strategy Fis. Is that something Joyce came up with do you think?

    • Tracey 1.2

      ms collins was a tax lawyer. her job was to lobby for, and exploit, loopholes.

  2. ghostwhowalksnz 2

    Surely the caption to the photo should have said :

    Zip it Sweetie

    • Tracey 2.1

      +1

    • ianmac 2.2

      Paula the Charming One was so proud of her “Zip it Sweetie” that she had/sold tshirts with it on and they sold well amongst Nats. She could give one to her mate Judy.

      • Tracey 2.2.1

        actually the other side of the house should all wear

        zip it sweetie

        and

        sensitive wee sausage

        under blazers at question time.

        • ianmac 2.2.1.1

          Too right Tracey! Yes. What goes around….

        • freedom 2.2.1.2

          they should also unfurl a banner across the front benches, where-on is printed Cabinet Rule 2.62

          then at least the Speaker would get to see it, which might be handy considering the range of questions now open to the opposition

  3. Ad 3

    Veutoviper predicted yesterday that she would go on leave.

    Any other takers?

    Any other proposals?

    My prediction is Key will just move her away from the media untiol after budget, and continue to front media himself – he needs her too much in caucus to sin-bin her.

    • Stuart Munro 3.1

      There’s a sporting chance one of Key’s GCSB henchbrutes will tranq her.

      • Anne 3.1.1

        But only in a nice way and for her own good and in the interest of New Zealand’s security.

        • Tracey 3.1.1.1

          chuckle

          • Kiwiri 3.1.1.1.1

            Not long to go now.
            “Word has it that” … some phone calls are being made about a possible announcement this afternoon or before midday tomorrow.

            • Kiwiri 3.1.1.1.1.1

              yup. it’s done. she has been put to bed.

              • Kiwiri

                btw, the responsibilities of governing do not go on sick leave

                the portfolio work and duties of the State must be passed on to other cabinet colleagues … Justice, ACC, Ethnic Affairs

    • veutoviper 3.2

      I am still standing by my predictions on OM last night that we will hear that she is going on leave either today or tomorrow morning.
      http://thestandard.org.nz/spin-slater-spin/#comment-808899
      http://thestandard.org.nz/spin-slater-spin/#comment-808907
      http://thestandard.org.nz/spin-slater-spin/#comment-808930

      IMO Key cannot stand her down as a Minister – she knows too much; she will spill the beans if he does. Espiner on Morning Report pressed Key on the possibility of Collins standing down as a Minister and/or her going on leave this morning and Key would not commit to a yes or no to any of his questions.

      BUT they will not want her in the House for Question Time tomorrow or the near future with the further revelations that are coming out of the release of the MFAT emails about the planning for her trip and the infamous ‘private dinner’.

      • mickysavage 3.2.1

        I should acknowledge that Veutoviper’s comments made me think about Collins going on stress leave.

        • veutoviper 3.2.1.1

          No need to, MS. Yesterday’s events just brought to mind the Nick Smith situation some years ago when he lost the plot. Couldn’t remember the exact details or date, but I see that Toad @7.2 has now provided a link.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 3.2.2

        Not turning up in the house to answer oral questions doesnt require leave. Key does this all the time. They just stay in their office and another Minister is allocated the question.

        • veutoviper 3.2.2.1

          Agreed, but Collins remaining in the Parliamentary precinct but not attending the House would lead to even more publicity etc than if she was offsite on leave. She was already using the back stairs etc before the current recess to avoid the press, but couldn’t avoid them.

      • David H 3.2.3

        And A question for TricKey in the House tomorrow. Did you send Collins on Leave ? and why ?

      • karol 3.2.4

        and… ding, ding, ding! veuto was spot on: Collins to take a few days off. – though she will front up to Question Time tomorrow – I guess that would have been too damning to dodge that.

        Key said Collins would front questions about Oravida in parliament this week and it was important she did so because neither she or the government had anything to hide over the affair.

        But after that she would take some time off.

    • ianmac 3.3

      Funny that her Caucus colleagues are not clapping every time she gives non-answer to questions at Question Time.This clapping is a usual way of Nats showing support but are strangely silent these days. Tomorrow?

    • ianmac 3.4

      Nat Caucus usually clap an answer after a Minister has been under pressure in Question Time but Judy is not getting the clap. Caucus strangely quiet. Distancing themselves perhaps?
      (My previous comment here disappeared.)

    • Craig Glen Eden 3.5

      Any other options? MEDICATION.

  4. toad 4

    Judith Collins, the gift that keeps on giving. Long may she remain a Minister (only up to the election, of course).

    Interesting to see Cameron Slater defending Collins & Williamson and attacking Key and Katie Bradford over at that site I can’t bring myself to link to.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 4.1

      Of course he is defending them , he is a mouthpiece for them and long time personal friend. Williamson, he has known for his whole life.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2

      For the good of the party I think it’s important that Judith prevails.

      • Arthur 4.2.1

        Which party?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1.1

          National. Key is weak, compromised by his Oravida modelling commitments, and he doesn’t back his ministers when they help constituents.

    • You_Fool 4.3

      I also like how they fail to realise the difference between an ordinary citizen having a moan and a minister of the crown abusing his position of power.

  5. felix 5

    Ok Judith, we’ll stop talking about Maurice and get back to looking into Oravida.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1

      :lol:

      • Akldnut 5.1.1

        Looks like this outburst may have had the desired effect of removing prying eyes from her personal (sarc) meeting and Orivida, but she gaffed by making a mortal enemy of the press, and opened the door for other issues.

        Her outburst over Williamson indicates she may have lost one of her Judith For PM stablemates.

        Weighing up everything in the past couple of months, this episode may just be “the straw that broke the camels back” She’s lost to much face and credibility to be a PM.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1

          Not exactly. Morning report was all over the new Oravida emails, Grant Robertson did a great job, and Judith can survive this, in fact this is her opportunity to show Key what a strong leader can do.

          He sealed his own fate when he used the Cabinet Manual as an excuse to humiliate her. He didn’t back her, he just threw her to the dogs.

          Go Judith.

  6. One Anonymous Bloke 6

    I expect there is a certain amount of embarrassment in the investor community over all this. Having Slippery’s brand on your scampi might not turn out that well after all.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 6.1

      Oravida doesnt make sense, there is no marketing genius in their promotional material. The products they choose are marginal ( fresh milk??)iIt defies sense to ship it halfway across the world- thats what milk powder is for- and it adds no value to what comes out of the cow.
      The owner of Oravida seems to spend all his time on the golf course, its laughable compared to other tycoons.

      • ianmac 6.1.1

        Fresh milk? They charge the Chinese $20 per bottle (per litre?) for airfreighted fresh NZ milk. Great profit while it lasts.
        Imagine if there was a hold up at the entry port. Disastrous! Why then they would have to get a NZ Minister to intervene with the border control to get their milk through as a special favour. Perhaps but that would never happen. Nah. Ridiculous!

      • Hayden 6.1.2

        The lever snapped off. The ship twisted sharply and rocketed upward. The crew were hurled violently back across the cabin. Ford’s copy of The Hitchhiker s Guide to the Galaxy smashed into another section of the control console with the combined result that the Guide started to explain to anyone who cared to listen about the best ways of smuggling Antarean parakeet glands out of Antares (an Antarean parakeet gland stuck on a small stick is a revolting but much-sought-after cocktail delicacy and very large sums of money are often paid for them by very rich idiots who want to impress other very rich idiots), and the ship suddenly dropped out of the sky like a stone.

        Never underestimate rich idiots.

      • Matthew Hooton 6.1.3

        In primary industries, the best marketing strategy is “fresh is best” – almost always the most valuable product (think apples v apple juice, kiwifruit v kiwifruit wine, fresh milk v milk powder, chilled v frozen meat). “Value added” usually involves destroying value and then trying to get that value back. So I think trying to sell fresh milk to China is a great (albeit very niche) idea. Better still would be NZ dairy companies setting up farms in China, close to the market – much cheaper transportation costs and also environmentally better.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1.3.1

          Reputation management business is looking up.

          • fender 6.1.3.1.1

            Reputation recovery must be a harder task though..

            …especially when it’s flat-lining..

            • McFlock 6.1.3.1.1.1

              still, pilots do most of their work when the plane’s either going up or coming down…

              Might as well milk this plane while it crashes (to mix metaphors)

        • mickysavage 6.1.3.2

          So what is your pick on Collins’s future Matthew?

          • Kiwiri 6.1.3.2.1

            Matt’s pick should be informed by Judith’s kind of advice that was twittered in response to a question by Danyl sometime ago – paraphrased here with editorial discretion:

            “You’re walking through the desolation of John Key’s caucus and you see a twit lying on its back, struggling and absolutely losing the plot. You don’t help it. Why is that?”

            Answer:

            https://twitter.com/JudithCollinsMP/status/334845576711634944#

        • Tracey 6.1.3.3

          we would have to lease land though matthew, they wont sell to us?

          • Draco T Bastard 6.1.3.3.1

            Actually, we’d just be investors that could be kicked out later. All the Chinese really need is the importation of some of our dairy stock and then they no longer need anything from us.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.3.4

          Better still would be NZ dairy companies setting up farms in China, close to the market

          I’m all for this as it would help destroy the rather stupid export industry we have here.

        • ianmac 6.1.3.5

          Yes Matthew. If the buyers are willing to pay top dollars then so be it. Mind you I have seen no real evidence that organic food is any better for you than non-organic. But if willing and able to pay more why not.

        • ghostwhowalksnz 6.1.3.6

          China is amoung the largest milk producers without our help.

          The order is India, USA, China , Pakistan, Brazil.

          We are of course the largest ‘exporter’ but I dont think China is interested in exporting milk products.

          And NZ cows are not especially high producers per cow by other western countries standards

          Mutton flaps are more important for the average Chinese as it used , thinly sliced, in hotpot dishes.

          Fresh is best ? Tell that to macdonalds. Seems like another fast food chain opens up every 5 years or so. Must be not listening to the media chefs and the upper middle classes

        • freedom 6.1.3.7

          Mr Hooton, as it is your article, can you clear this confusion up for us please?
          http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05052014/#comment-809146

      • Scott 6.1.4

        Having Keys face plastered on a slimy deep sea cockroach is pure marketing genius.

    • vto 6.2

      It is not often we agree oab, but this will be exactly the case.

      Investors / business people, despite being relative risk-takers, veer heavily away at speed in circumstances like these. There will be many unhappy people.

      • Tracey 6.2.1

        agree.

        although entrepreneurs are usually the risk takers. after tge initial risk they hire bcoms and mbas to come and run things. those folks are very conservative and very bottom line driven.

        they will veer toward absolute self interest which is exactly what collins and williamsons colleagues are also doing now.

    • Stuart Munro 6.3

      孔子reckons “Key’s promises are like dead fish – cannot stand the test of time.”

      • One Anonymous Bloke 6.3.1

        Exactly. Judith is made of sterner stuff. If you’re going to ask her questions and you’re on solid ground, make sure you aren’t standing on a plastic sheet.

        All hail Judith.

  7. Tiger Mountain 7

    ShonKey has got himself snookered here. Who will end up being crushed though at election time?

    Micky’s suggestion of “stress leave” is most thoughtful. If that reaches Judith via one of her minions it should really incite her to another Warthog style rampage.

    • Ant 7.1

      The pressure is on, Key is running out of options: Start to look powerless and accept the hits or stand down Collins and watch her go loco.

      • toad 7.1.1

        Yeah, having Collins, Williamson & Slater go renegade on the Nats’ right flank would be fun to watch. Key would be up against a pretty formidable team there.

        • Ant 7.1.1.1

          Well it looks like Slater is now going for Hooton’s throat, great to see them all turn in on each other. It really shows how brittle the National party is once they get exposed to a bit of daylight.

        • Murray Olsen 7.1.1.2

          Collins, Williamson and Slater might be formidable in their ability to inflict damage, but I doubt it would be very well targeted. They’d damage the whole National Party. The sooner they start, the better.

    • toad 7.2

      Yeah, there’s precedent. Nick Smith was put on stress leave shortly before his forced resignation as National Deputy Leader in 2003 following some similarly bizarre behaviour.

      But I’s hate to see that happen to Collins as she is doing as much to ensure a Labour-Green Government as anyone in Labour or the Greens at the moment.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 7.2.1

        In that situation, the leader didnt want him ( Don Brash) and Smith had a big row with the party whip.
        Collins is not having her arguments within the party

    • Anne 7.3

      Yeah watch out micky, You’re about to be twittered? Enjoy it. :)

  8. Stuart Munro 8

    Bill English got one thing wrong – “It’ll be close” he said. Corruption doesn’t go down well with the voters: it’s going to be a landslide.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1

      That’s what I’m thinking. The stink of corruption always emanates from National but it’s getting significantly worse as their time in government rolls on.

  9. fender 9

    “News from National’s Northern Conference has been completely obliterated.”

    I did hear on RNZ the PM say:

    “The Greens are against jobs, growth, etc, etc,…..and if you don’t believe me just ask…..

    Shane Jones”

    This could have been another one of Keys lame jokes, the delivery suggested it was an attempt to garner some laughs, but it fell flat possibly because the real joke is that Key now sees Jones as his trusted advisor.

    I’ve never thought much of Collins or her mean and nasty technique, but it’s been enlightening to see just how similar to Slater she is, it explains why they have such a close relationship.

  10. mickysavage 10

    What I am really interested in is the response to by the RWNJ’s. I thought my post from yesterday and this one would goad the usual suspects into responding. It is not as if they are ignoring either post. Both posts have had a large number of views.

    Bomber has suggested (http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/05/05/why-key-cant-punish-judith-collins-till-after-the-election-and-the-new-factional-war-inside-national/) that Collins targeting Katie Bradford was deliberate and a dog whistle to her supporters. He also notes that Hooton and Jordan Williams have had a major spat on twitter. He notes Slater complaining about MP selections that did not go Collins way.

    The premise is that we are seeing civil war break out in National’s ranks. Can’t say I disagree.

    • Ad 10.1

      I made same point as Bomber last week.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 10.2

      The three Billy Goats Gruff are getting bored and threatening to trash the green green grass unless they get some action soon.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.3

      The premise is that we are seeing civil war break out in National’s ranks.

      If so I wonder if it will result in the final breakup of National that’s been on the cards for decades.

      No, probably not. National are better collectivists than the left and want the power that comes from being a single party in government.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 10.4

      It has a lot of similarities to the Tea party: infiltration from within, media blowhards on blogs and talkback repeating your lines.

      The one name that I havent heard pop up, but who must be involved somewhere is Ruth Richardson

      • freedom 10.4.1

        and don’t forget Shipley, the most unseen of all shadows in NZ-China relations

      • Tracey 10.4.2

        national has long, imo, been made up of uf or act leaning people. perhaps this is the ideological split

        OR

        its just the natural result of the pursuit of self interest, and two have been caught out.

    • Tracey 10.5

      but why now?

      usually the self interest of keeping their power keeps their mouths shut.

      or have the just become so cocksure they assumed everything would stay under wraps or capable of going away with another lie?

      • mickysavage 10.5.1

        Maybe because the nats know that Key is leaving soonish. Whoever becomes leader may become the next PM. This is a fight for the future of the National Party and Collins does not intend to lose …

        • Tracey 10.5.1.1

          i wondered that, and then he gave that interview at his “bach” about being around for a fourth term. i know he lies, and maybe this was one of them.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 10.5.1.2

          National needs a strong leader. Judith is strong, and she takes care of her friends.

        • BLiP 10.5.1.3

          Maybe because the nats know that Key is leaving soonish . . .

          ^^^^ THIS.

          Its apparent that so far as John Key is concerned its pretty much game over. He’s had enough. I noticed this a couple of months ago when he made repeated references to his “legacy”. He stopped that pretty quick but, have you noticed his latest thought-stopping technique in media comments:

          ” . . . in the end . . .”

          He must have said this about 100 times in the last week. The use of the phrase carries within it the tacit notion that what ever current National Ltd™ crisis is being discussed is over, move along, nothing to see here. The thought-stopper is a little more sophisticated than his permanent state of “being relaxed” but, while it may be accidental, I think its also indicative of John Key’s internal state of mind in that he knows this is the end. My bet: this time next year he will be miles away twittering on in his usual blithe state as he lines up a shot on the vast greens of Planet Key.

          (Speaking of perception management techniques, and considering the wider goings-on within the National Ltd™ PR spin machine, I note that of the 25 Rules of Disinformation, National Ltd™ is applying just about all of them right across its entire engagement with the public, the media, and even with its own people. One of Crosby/Textor’s favourite techniques is to accuse your opposition of what it is that you are weak on. The narrative that Labour, and the left generally, are a disorganised rabble riddled with rifts actually, when you look at the facts, applies far more to National Ltd™ and is becoming more obvious by the day. )

          • Draco T Bastard 10.5.1.3.1

            The narrative that Labour, and the left generally, are a disorganised rabble riddled with rifts actually, when you look at the facts, applies far more to National Ltd™ and is becoming more obvious by the day.

            QFT

    • Paul 10.6

      Yes where is our friend srylands? Etc?
      Maybe they’re all the same person…

      • Tracey 10.6.1

        slylands starts work at ten, so hes still reading the posts here.

        • fender 10.6.1.1

          Plus there’s the time zone difference with Australia to consider..

          • Hayden 10.6.1.1.1

            No, he’s just walking from his employer-provided car-park halfway up the Terrace to his office on Pipitea St.

            • thatguynz 10.6.1.1.1.1

              Particularly given that the address provided (125 The Terrace) isn’t actually a car parking building… Yes, it contains car parks but I gather they are utilised by building tenants rather than the public..

              • srylands

                No I assure you that the Carpark at 125 The Terrace is run by Wilson Parking. Anyone can get a park there, but there is a wait. I pay for the carpark myself. But I do then walk to the office in Pipitea Street.

                I have no idea what the Australia crack is.

      • felix 10.6.2

        “Yes where is our friend srylands? Etc?
        Maybe they’re all the same person…”

        Dunno how many are the same person, but it’s a pretty neat trick to have them all appear and disappear together, isn’t it?

    • Tracey 10.7

      no

      national tearing about at the seams

      national in chaos

      headlines tho.

    • Anne 10.8

      The premise is that we are seeing civil war break out in National’s ranks. Can’t say I disagree.

      And its spilling out into the streets. I’d say there’s a lot of pent-up frustration in the Nat. Caucus – and even among activist members – because they’ve been under strict totalitarian rule since 2008. Even their local reports to constituents are written for them – remember the [insert name/electorate here] revelation? They have been told what to think… what to say… what to do… and woe betide anyone who steps out of line. Its coming back to bite them?

      • Tracey 10.8.1

        goldsmith has billboards with his and nick smiths face announcing a public meeting in epsom. i didnt know whether to laugh or cry.

    • geoff 10.9

      I think the RWNJs tactic is to go silent on bad news for them. It’s like there is a policy to not give negative stories any oxygen.

      • Colonial Viper 10.9.1

        “Why are you afraid of commenting”
        “Staying silent makes it look like you have something to hide”
        “Have you no defence against the allegations”

        • SpaceMonkey 10.9.1.1

          Suddenly they are staunch advocates for the right to silence…?

  11. karol 11

    Rob Salmond is predicting/promising more revelations re Oravida later today:

    To make it worse, my information is the Gallery’s phones are running hot with National insiders spilling their guts about how Collins has embarrassed them. When the Press Gallery is angry with you, the last thing you need is your own team supplying more ammo.

    And to make it worse again, later today I will post on even more new and damning information about Collins’ Oravida links. Stay tuned.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      But I do want to emphasise the silver lining for Judith Collins. I found 66 people on Twitter last night who wanted to show their support for her by favoriting or retweeting this:

      @rsalmond: RT if you agree: Dear @johnkeypm: Please do not fire @JudithCollinsMP. She is great. Yours sincerely, Labour/Greens supporters.

      :twisted: :lol:

    • northshoreguynz 11.2

      http://polity.co.nz/blog-front
      Lays it out beautifully.

      • Kiwiri 11.2.1

        The country knows from past incidents that John Key has problems making himself read documents and also major difficulties trying to remember.

        So can someone bring him the OIA-dumped papers that reveal Judith breached Cabinet Manual rules, lock the office door and watch over him to ensure he reads them, and then accompany him to a pre-scheduled press conference, as well as hang around to remind him the announcement that he needs to make.

  12. Bill 12

    So a daft bint with an enormous sense of entitlement has discovered fresh air and a long drop beneath her feet.

    But, she’s entitled! And so it’s all just a wee bit hard for her to grasp.

    She was entitled to do whatever she did with regards Orivida. No question. Did she feel entitled to take a tilt for the leadership of the National Party? If she did, she probably still does. And as said, I’d punt she can’t comprehend the unraveling that’s under way. So she lashes out at any and all ingrates who put any kind of focus on what she feels entitled to do.

    There’s no plan, no strategy or sense of timing. It’s just the desperate and blind flailing that comes from doomed, and not altogether bright bastards before the inevitable drop.

  13. Chooky 13

    Interesting comments and analysis from Bomber Bradbury on this issue…”Why Key can’t punish Judith Collins till after the election and the new factional war inside National” –

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/05/05/why-key-cant-punish-judith-collins-till-after-the-election-and-the-new-factional-war-inside-national/

    • Tracey 13.1

      if she is being denied her mp selections how can she also be well positioned post election? on the face of it those statements are contradictory.

    • Huginn 13.2

      Yes, Machiavellian

      The observation that none of her nominations were accepted makes me wonder whether we should be taking a closer look at what’s been going on in the National Party.

      The Right have been obsessing about what’s wrong with the Labour Party, and what David Cunliffe should do to sort it out, and what a massive blow Shane Jones’ resignation was. . . blah-de-blah-de-blah. . .
      All the time its been a huge distraction to keep them from looking too closely at the stealthy coup that’s been going on in their own party.

      Family psychologists have probably got a name for that

  14. Hayden 14

    Today’s Dominion Post 5-minute quiz, Question 1 (vaguely, from memory):

    In the hit 1963 song, whose turn was it to cry?

    Subtle?

  15. captain hook 15

    Judith Collins is a bully plain and simple. she has become so used to getting her own way and riding roughshod over all and sundry that she has come to believe that she is the only one with any rights whatsoever. Time for this haridan to get her pink slip.

    • karol 15.1

      Collins has become a parody of a Thatcher wannabe.

      • freedom 15.1.1

        skim read that as ‘a parody of a Thatcher womble”
        :) Mondays eh!

      • Anne 15.1.2

        My thoughts too. She’s modeling herself of Thatcher even down to her appearance and the way she walks. She sees herself as NZ’s Maggie Thatcher – strong, belligerent, clever and brooks no dissent.

        At least Thatcher did have a bit of class about her – Collins has none.

        • Murray Olsen 15.1.2.1

          She actually reminds me of Idi Amin in her approach to accountability, responsibility, and democracy. Just as well she can’t send the Whalespew Army out to attack people in their homes.

  16. weka 16

    “National needs a strong leader. Judith is strong, and she takes care of her friends.”

    I must say OAB it’s a delight seeing such a dedicated leftie consistently giving the right such useful and supportive political advice :-D

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1

      We’ll see who’s laughing when Judith has control of the GCSB. All the way with JC in 2014!

  17. risildowgtn 17

    Collins/Oravida have been busy buying up more than Kauri Logs

    Wonder when the proverbial SHIT really will hit the fan over THIS GEM

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbbus/266137544-oravida-expanding-into-gold-mining-

  18. veutoviper 18

    FULL UNCUT TV3 INTERVIEW – SABIN WITH COLLINS

    http://t.co/KcDTLUdZge

    TV3 have put up the full 10 minute uncut interview with Collins – as opposed to the 4 minute news item one that MS’ TV3 link in the post leads to.

    Well worth watching as it has a lot more bizarre comments (including about her trip to China, the dinner, her staff, kauri, the press etc) than in the cut version.

    Collins’ eye movements are revealing – constant movement, blinking, half lids etc. Could not stop focussing on them.

    • karol 18.1

      It’s the mixture of eye and mouth movements that’s intriguing – defensive, contained aggression, which explodes into an attack at various points.

      • Kiwiri 18.1.1

        grab the whole clip before/if it disappears please!
        this is The Interview that never stops giving

        and some treasured gems in there to be held up on wider public display as well as to be repeated back to john key and his ministers!

        • veutoviper 18.1.1.1

          If I knew how to “grab the whole clip”, I would but that is way beyond my abilities!

          Perhaps one of the many experts here could do so.

    • Red Rosa 18.2

      Collins looks like something out of a 1930s gangster movie!

      The narrowed eyes, the veiled threats, then finally the punch line.

      Sort of like a bent DA in Raymond Chandler’s Los Angeles…maybe not so far off? ‘We own this town, buddy. Better get used to it.’

      She has to have something big on Key. You’d never pin him down, but somewhere lurking in the background must be another explanation for his continued Collins support today. After all, she appears to have misled him as much as the NZ public on the Oravida scandal.

      Maybe time will tell, or maybe tomorrow’s QT in Parliament. Interesting times.

    • ianmac 18.3

      Full uncut interview. Crikey veuto. Weird. I reckon a carelessly struck match would spark a massive meltdown. Judith does not like being questioned does she.

      “You worm! How dare you ask me such questions! Don’t you know who I am?!!!”

      • veutoviper 18.3.1

        I did not say it in my comment at 18 – but I got the link to that video from Paddy Gower’s Twitter feed!

        https://twitter.com/patrickgowernz

        Gower has also now done a blog post on it at TV3’s website – http://t.co/Y7cWItsLEL

        • karol 18.3.1.1

          The link to the video was being cycled through Twitter this morning. Came into my twitter feed several hours – originally from Firstline, I think?

          • veutoviper 18.3.1.1.1

            Probably, Karol, but I don’t watch TV. I am also not on Twitter per se so don’t get the feeds – just read various people’s Twitter feeds from time to time but not a follower of anyone. I did a quick check here as to whether anyone had posted the full video, and then posted it as I thought it was worth while seeing the whole interview.

            • karol 18.3.1.1.1.1

              Yes, that video is well worth a watch. Predictably, her attack on the media has hit a nerve with many journalists. Duncan Garner hs also been highly critical of her today.

              Collins has now bought a fight. And the Press Gallery is a strange beast – it loves a target.

              Yes, it’s a competitive place, but I can imagine what’s happening today. They’ll be in each other’s offices ‘gossiping’ about how outrageous it was of Collins to attack Katie Bradford.

              It will only serve to rile up the most ruthless amongst them to nail Collins. Key knows that, which is why Key has told Collins to chill out. He will have told her to stay away from the media unless it’s on important justice issues.
              […]
              The truth is, her story about what she was doing in China with Oravida has completely collapsed. She has lost all credibility. What started as a pop-in cup of milk and a private dinner turns out to be a turbo-blasted official dinner involving both Governments, their officials, a senior Minister (Collins) and a National party donor (Oravida).

              Collins presented it totally differently and she’s been found out, case closed. She didn’t tell the truth to the PM – she misled him, she misled Parliament and she misled you, the voter.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 18.4

      That’s awesome – see how strong she is! Not like that weak lickspittle Key, bowing and scraping on Letterman. Judith would have Letterman boiled alive.

      She promises there’s more to come! Pledge allegiance if you know what’s good for you is my advice.

  19. karol 19

    Rob Salmond on what Friday’s OIA shows:

    It shows that Judith Collins’ visit to Oravida was an official, Ministerial visit specifically designed by the New Zealand government to improve Oravida’s, and only Oravida’s, business opportunities in China. That is something Judith Collins is strictly forbidden from doing in her Ministerial capacity, because her husband is a director of the company.

    This is further evidence that Collins has used taxpayer funds to help her husband’s business, and that she has spent the last two months lying about that fact to her boss, the Parliament, and the people of New Zealand. She must resign.

    • toad 19.1

      Surely she cannot survive that.

      • Draco T Bastard 19.1.1

        I suspect that National’s advisors are working on it now but it may be that she can’t.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 19.1.2

        Someone won’t survive it, that’s for sure.

    • Tracey 19.2

      if substantiated, surely its not just about resigning as a minister, she needs to be gone. she will go as minister cos she lied to key, but she needs to leave parliament cos she lied to the people of nz. its not just ministers who have to tell the truth and behave well, surely?

    • Disraeli Gladstone 19.3

      She’s gone.

      Key can’t not have her go.

      He’ll be wanting to get his timing right. Close enough to the budget that the budget will drown out news on her, not too close that she’ll drown out the budget.

  20. aerobubble 20

    So One minister makes three mistakes, not distancing themselves from a party donor, not checking their decision with others, and thus making a huge mistake of ‘as a minister’ telling police they were not on solid ground surrounding a ongoing investigation. Nuff said, he’s gone.

    Another minister, makes countless mistakes, a party donor, who is also her husbands company, has a sit down meeting with a border official during the time when her husband company is having border problems. Now she didnt distance herself, she didn’t check her decision with anyone, and now the clear perception of favoring her Husband business is all too real. Instead of going, she spits out odium on the messagers, she misleads parliament, and she doesn’t show one iota of political savvy. Astonishing.

    • Colonial Viper 20.1

      It says something about how much more political leverage and support Collins has at her disposal compared to Williamson.

      • aerobubble 20.1.1

        No. I think it says how utterly corrupt she is, too think she is so high and almighty.

        Its because politicians are burnt a bit that we grow to trust them, we see how they operate.

        Collins has lost any chance of being PM, voters just do not like power crazed.

        Sit it out Collins, stand aside, and watch Key’s government crash, and be available for the leadership. But no, shes too pig stupid to see anything but her own sanctimonious never
        do nothing wrong.

  21. Clemgeopin 21

    Thinking of Maurice Williamson and Judith Collins, the National MP that now I feel very sorry about is…….

    Mr Aaron Gilmore.

    • Tracey 21.1

      i dont. we need to cut this entitlement shit off at the early stages. he is young, he can rebuild.

      • Clemgeopin 21.1.1

        I am not sorry he resigned for his arrogant attitude, drunk or not.

        What I was referring to was the fact that Aaron Gilmore resigned/made to resign for a comparatively lesser offense than the hugely wrong/dodgy/corrupt behaviour of Williamson and Collins.

        This issue alone will hurt National at the next election.

  22. ianmac 22

    Russell Brown has an interesting take on “Spheres of Influence.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11249704

  23. MaxFletcher 23

    She’s got to go. The only option.

  24. Treetop 24

    I wonder what the retired Canadian judge who reviewed Bains right to compensation thinks of Collins?

    Bain has stated that he survived a decade in jail by doing the sentence 5 minutes at a time. Good advice for Collins during question time tomorrow.

    What goes around comes around.

  25. Yippee! When is the next poll?

    One issue not raised that I have is her attacking her Parliamentry staffers. Whatever their political persuasion (and I know that you do not have to associate with a Party to be a Parliamentary staffer), an attack from the Minister trying to blame her staff is cowardly, dirty and unethical.

    National try to pretend to hold the moral high ground. Sounding like a Tui ad yet?

    “Judith Collins is very sorry – Yeah! Right!”

    • Anne 25.1

      One issue not raised that I have is her attacking her Parliamentry staffers.

      Incredible wasn’t it. Calling them “control freaks” not once but several times. Always with a smile on her face and vindictiveness in her eyes. Wow!!! How to go about ensuring loyal staff. What’s the bet they’re squealing as we speak.

      • veutoviper 25.1.1

        I could not believe that Collins did that – but then again, I can. I know a number of people who have worked for her, and not a good experience. A control freak calling others that.

        I don’t know if you are referring to the original news item last night, but if you haven’t watched the full uncut 10 minute interview Sabin/Collins, she says a lot more in the full interview. link at 18 above.

      • Mary 25.1.2

        And tonight on TVNZ news she said she didn’t lie about what she said about Katie Bradford, but she said that Katie Bradford asked her to intervene. It’s accepted that’s not the case but Collins is still saying that what she said was the truth. More lies. She’s out of control, all right. Great stuff. Keep it coming, Judith.

      • felix 25.1.3

        “How to go about ensuring loyal staff. What’s the bet they’re squealing as we speak.”

        Haha not much time left for loyalty. May as well leak like a sieve.

  26. Pete 26

    When Collins goes, I guess it will have to be Finlayson to replace her. But somebody else will have to be A-G. The Attorney General sometimes has a role in making decisions about when to prosecute, so it would be a clear conflict if he kept both roles. I wonder who would be his replacement.

  27. ghostwhowalksnz 27

    So we have two unrelated controversies in the last 7 days.

    Williamson resigning from Cabinet and Collins and her links with Oravida.

    They arent related on the surface of it.

    But why did Collins lash out at a journalist over ‘what you have done to Maurice’

    Shes been a practicing lawyer and an MP for a while plus in Cabinet. Surely she would have kept her head down on the Williamson affair ( as she has her own troubles)

    Shes a friend of Williamson, and close colleague but it doesnt make sense why she should kicking heads in this making more controversy.

    Then there is this in Williamsons comments which adds an unknown person in the mix.

    He said he was told of the December incidentby a friend of Liu and was “shocked” due to Liu’s clean record required for citizenship here

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11247661

    Who could this friend be that galvanised Williamson into action.

    My belief is the “friend of Liu” was Collins herself

    Collins knew she couldnt call the Police herself as she was Minister of Justice.

    And once it all blew up and Williamson was forced out, Collins realized he took a bullet for her and this would explain her actions in going around kicking heads for him, thereby increasing the media storm.

    I wonder if Labour will explore this’ unknown friend’ once Parliament resumes.

    I repeat, I think Collins is the friend who alerted Williamson to Liu’s arrest

    • Anne 27.1

      Yep gwwnz.

      My immediate thought over Collins’ comment (mentioned on TS a day or two ago) was:

      Williamson is a scapegoat for the Collins affair.

      I didn’t know in what way, but your submission is a perfect fit!

      • veutoviper 27.1.1

        I am pretty sure that Williamson has said on several occasions over the last few days that the friend of Liu’s who he spoke to back in December (long before the Collins’ Oravida tour to China was an issue)was Liu’s translater.

        I don’t have time now to look for a link – menagerie feeding time before human tea is prepared.

        Sorry, I just don’t think it was Collins..

    • karol 27.2

      Well, Liu couldn’t have told Williamson himself because they speak different languages and cannot communicate with each other directly. They communicate through an interpreter.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 27.2.1

        The interpreter would have provided details to Williamson when he contacted Liu after Collins first told him about it.

        Id previously met Liu some years back relating to the Boulevard Motel. He has an entourage and a number of fixers with him most of the time.

        • karol 27.2.1.1

          It’s possible. But it could have been anyone linked with Liu who told Williamson.

        • Anne 27.2.1.2

          The interpreter would have provided details to Williamson when he contacted Liu after Collins first told him about it.

          Exactly. Williamson was being just a wee bit misleading? He wouldn’t have had much choice. If it is shown to be correct then I have to say I feel sorry for him. Setting aside his libertarian views, he’s not a bad person – likeable at times.

        • freedom 27.2.1.3

          That’s bugged me from day one. Liu is reportedly managing the investment of 70 million dollars in a complex construction project in our largest city.

          Why did Maurice Williamson think Liu needed the help of a Government Minister to communicate with the local Police on a domestic violence investigation?

  28. ianmac 28

    I read somewhere today that Williamson represented the Right in National. But so does Collins so that would be a reason that Key cannot afford to drop two right-wingers and both from Auckland. (Maybe heard that on 9 to Noon?) If so no wonder Key is boxed in.

    • Anne 28.1

      Ideologically speaking they both mirror the hard right libertarian wing of the National Party.

      There was an attempt back in the late 1990s/early 2000 to lure Willaimson away from National and into ACT.

      • felix 28.1.1

        Maurice represents the hard right libertarian wing.

        Collins is hard right, but she’s no libertarian.

  29. weka 29

    “Collins presented it totally differently and she’s been found out, case closed. She didn’t tell the truth to the PM – she misled him, she misled Parliament and she misled you, the voter.”

    Is there a reason to not use the word ‘lie’?

  30. Pete 30

    Andrea Vance just tweeted: I understand email went out to Ministers SPS’ in the last 90 mins asking for cover for Collins House duty for next two weeks #ttrtpt

    • Kiwiri 30.1

      and she continues to draw upon her ministerial salary, with her perks intact, thanks to the generosity of taxpayers

    • karol 30.2

      The article about it on Stuff (as linked above) says she will front to Question Time tomorrow then go on leave.

      • Kiwiri 30.2.1

        key playing with words and says “refresher”
        LOL!!!

      • yeshe 30.2.2

        hi karol .. hope you’re right .. but the link said only ‘this week’ for Collins to front up, did not say ‘tomorrow’, though it would make sense as you suggest.

        • karol 30.2.2.1

          One News tonight said Collins will be at Question Time tomorrow and Wednesday. This is interesting because those are the days Key is usually there.

          And also Key indicated that it was Collins idea to take a break. If Collins isn’t there the heat would turn on Key re-Oravida.

    • karol 30.3

      And so Vance got her info via someone who was in the ministerial loop? Nats are very leaky these days?!

    • ianmac 30.4

      The PM said at his press meeting that she would take 4 or 5 days off after Tuesday and Wednesday Q Time is over. Maybe back next Tuesday?

    • Ad 30.5

      Close enough in scenario to call VeutoViper’s prediction from yesterday correct.

    • Clemgeopin 30.6

      [Re: Andrea Vance just tweeted: I understand email went out to Ministers SPS’ in the last 90 mins asking for cover for Collins House duty for next two weeks #ttrtpt]

      And the little boy cried aloud, “Ha, ha! The empress has no clothes! She needs a cover!”

  31. Paul 31

    Judith Collins to take a few days off

    “Key said Collins would front questions about Oravida in parliament this week and it was important she did so because neither she or the government had anything to hide over the affair.

    But after that she would take some time off.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10010739/Judith-Collins-to-take-a-few-days-off

    • One Anonymous Bloke 31.1

      After Rob Salmond’s revelations will she be back?

      • Paul 31.1.1

        That’s dynamite.
        When did he post this today?

        • ianmac 31.1.1.1

          I read that post by Rob this morning.
          The short one by No Right Turn today is pretty explicit http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/ and the way that Brent Edwards tied the emails together just after 5pm tonight was interesting. He did say that the PM reads the emails in a different way to anyone else. Mmmm?

          • Paul 31.1.1.1.1

            “Mr Key has admitted he knows the name and occupation of the Chinese border control official that was also present at the controversial dinner that Ms Collins attended but won’t reveal the information.”

            Is Key himself compromised by the Oravida story?

            http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/judith-collins-take-time-off-amid-oravida-storm-5949107

            • Anne 31.1.1.1.1.1

              When Key is lying, his inability to pronounce words correctly becomes more noticeable.

              In Paul’s link he talks about “parisha”. It took me a few seconds to comprehend he meant “pressure”.

            • Anne 31.1.1.1.1.2

              Is Key himself compromised by the Oravida story?

              Course he is. That’s why he can’t sack Collins and is having to stick by her through thick and thin. That’s my conclusion anyway.

              On Campbell Live just now there’s been a re-run of part of the Paddy Gower video at Oravida’s headquarters in China. Not only was Judith Collins’ face prominent in the various photos on the walls and elsewhere, but so was John Key’s…

              Its getting more and more like our own Watergate every day and we know how the original ended.

              • felix

                And as Nixon may or may not have said, “It’s the lie that gets you.”

              • freedom

                Let’s remember, from the time the cops picked up the ‘burglars’ to the fall of Nixon, took the best part of two years. I think NZ can do better than that :)

    • Tiger Mountain 31.2

      “Everybody needs a little time away,” I heard her say, “from each other.”
      “Even lover’s need a holiday far away from each other.”

      An even longer stress leave, er, break would be in order, but we may have to wait until September.

    • Tracey 31.3

      does she have to provide a medical certificate?

  32. TheContrarian 32

    Key has got to sack her, or at least take her off ministerial duty for the time being. If this was a Left bloc MP National would be screaming fucking murder about it.

  33. feijoa 33

    Does Stephen Joyce have anything to do with this

    I’m sure it would be VERY convenient for him if Judith’s career went bust….

  34. dave 34

    keys up to his neck in this. this is not over by any means once Collins is disposed of key is next the opposition has found the smell where it goes is like following a rat up a drain pipe where it ends nobody knows. the beginning of the end of the donkey Govt.

  35. Clemgeopin 35

    I can only laugh at National’s spin, manipulation and BS about her going on stress leave. This whole scandal is created by Collins herself through her dodgy actions and dodgy statements. Her own behaviour and Key’s defense are entirely responsible for this despicable episode. If she has been truthful and has nothing to hide, then there is no reason for her to be stressed or to be running away! She and Key may want to hide from the media for a few days to hoodwink the people, but they can’t run for too long because the voters will stop them in Sept. Only the truth will set them free.

  36. felix 36

    When all this is over and we look back on Collins’ career, I think it will be best summed up in her own words:

    “Always kind 2 turtles.”

    • felix 36.1

      But now she’s admitted she doesn’t care about wetlands. Can’t both be true.

  37. Tanz 38

    oh, she is a fine pollie, and will be a great leader. give her a break..

    • Ben Adam 38.1

      Yes, she is a very honest pollie, and will be the best leader ever, give her a break….permanently.

  38. felix 39

    The pic is priceless. It’s the look of entitlement denied.

    Her brain is screaming WHY WONT THESE PEASANTS LET ME RULE THEM?!!???

  39. Populuxe1 40

    In your rush to gloat, you may at least like to pause and consider that Collins also put the ground work in place for therapeutic justice in our legal system.

Links to post

Important links

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

[tabs] [tab title="Feeds"]