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Conscience votes

Written By: - Date published: 7:06 am, August 28th, 2012 - 91 comments
Categories: alcohol, democratic participation, families, Parliament - Tags: ,

Two high-profile conscience votes are coming up in Parliament over the next two days, the marriage equality (gay marriage) bill, and a proposal to split the minimum age for buying alcohol (raise it to 20 for supermarkets and bottle stores, but leave it at 18 for pubs). It will be interesting to see the breakdown of who votes which way on the issues.

Stuff is reporting some of the responses from the public on marriage equality:

Emails already sent to MPs cite a “destructive homosexual political cult”, the “gay mafia” and even suggest the bill is “about legalised child abuse”. “You do not know that there [is a] silent majority who do not support gay marriage. Human rights do not equal marriage rights,” one email says.

Others in support of the bill cite equal opportunities regardless of sexuality. “The vast majority of Kiwis . . . know it’s time for full equality for gay and lesbian Kiwis and they want to finally see their friends enjoy the same rights as them,” a supporter says.

Green MP Kevin Hague said few of those writing to MPs against gay marriage were presenting “strong arguments or arguments that you wouldn’t expect”. Some amounted to “an expression of a view with a bit of menace attached”, he said.

The level of malice is disturbing not only in and of itself, but also as an indication of what it is that drives and motivates many of us to get involved. Not poverty. Not climate change. Not any one of the dozens of important social and political questions of our times. Rather it is the urge to interfere in other people’s bedrooms. Fear and anger. Let’s hope that our elected representatives are capable of rising above it.

91 comments on “Conscience votes”

  1. Carol 1

    The level of malice is disturbing not only in and of itself, but also as an indication of what it is that drives and motivates many of us to get involved. Not poverty. Not climate change. Not any one of the dozens of important social and political questions of our times. Rather it is the urge to interfere in other people’s bedrooms. Fear and anger.

    Actually, some people do get motivated to anger by poverty, but not in the way many of us would wish: it seems some people also get motivated by bennie-bashing.

    So the common theme is that significant numbers of people get motivated by scape-goating, and victimising the poor, the relatively powerless and the already-marginalised.

    It’s quite depressing to contemplate this level of nastiness: not wanting to hold out a hand to those in need or to be willing to empathise with our common humanity…… but kicking those that are already down or demonising those that are in some way different to themselves.

  2. Carol 2

    The youth wings of left and right wing parties are supporting the gay marriage bill. This includes Young Nats, ACT on Campus, Young Labour, Young Greens and Mana Rangatahi.

    http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_12174.php

    The five youth wings, representing youth members of parties comprising 110 of the 121 MPs in Parliament, believe their combined show of support reflects the overwhelming support for marriage equality amongst younger New Zealanders, which was 76 per cent in a Colmar Brunton May 2012 poll.

    • Lanthanide 2.1

      Pity the “ACT MP for Epsom” doesn’t believe in his party’s traditional standing on these sorts of issues. It’s almost like he’s not really an ACT MP at all.

    • Dr Terry 2.2

      To my bitter and embarrassed regret, it appears that many of the malicious and hateful messages are coming from people who presume to call themselves Christians. As a pastor, I do not associate myself with them in any way.

  3. BernyD 3

    It’s about time the whole “Marriage” contract was ripped up and re written.
    It’s allowed the “Legalised” Rape and Abuse of Women and Children since it started.

    NZ and many other countries have had to build Laws that allow prosecution of Men who think it gives them the right to rape their wife every night.

    If you removed the Bullshit of “Conjugal” rights from it, then there would be nothing they could deny to Gay and Lesbian celebrants and they could “Legally” marry without any legal obstruction being used to stop them.

    The Fact is men want to marry so they can force themselves on someone else regardless of the other parties wishes in the matter.

    It’s our bodies, we have the Ultimate right to say yes or no to whoever we want.

    • vto 3.1

      Was mindlessly reading through your ramble there BernyD, starting to think hmmmm this one’s on a bit of a one-eyed wagon and then this line pops up … “The Fact is men want to marry so they can force themselves on someone else regardless of the other parties wishes in the matter.” … You’re a fucking idiot.

      • BernyD 3.1.1

        It’s not marriage until it’s consumated is a Barabaric practice in 2012
        I’m a man that’s watched women tortured by this contract for 30years plus.

        • vto 3.1.1.1

          Well you need to pen your thoughts better and not say such stupid things.

          • BernyD 3.1.1.1.1

            I said it that way for a reason.

            All the Men and Women who don’t see it that way would be happy to drop “Conjugal” rights as it’s not the reason they married.

            The rest of the Vehement opposers …..

            • vto 3.1.1.1.1.1

              I think you’re living on another planet.

              And you do realise of course that women are well aware of conjugal rights, just like men as you point out, and expect to be so taken advantage of. So wtf the problem? Caveat emptor and all that. If they don’t like conjugal rights then don’t get married. Dipshits.

              • weka

                “and expect to be so taken advantage of.”
                 
                Excuse me? 
                 
                You do realise that Berny is talking about women being coerced into sex.
                 
                You do realise that there are people still living for whom getting married was an economic and/or social necessity.
                 
                Beyond that, I’m not sure how many women are aware that they need to service their husbands at his will upon marriage. I would say that most women don’t consider that an absolute duty.
                 
                 
                Berny, I think you overstated the case. Judicious use of the word ‘some’ might have allowed us to focus on the actual issue.
                 
                I agree with you that concepts of conjugal rights are bizarre, but I can’t find anything about that in the NZ Marriage Act. Can you point it out?
                 
                http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1955/0092/latest/DLM292028.html

                • Carol

                  Ah, consummation used to be a necessity, but apparently no longer is:

                  http://www.netlaw.co.nz/family.cfm?PageID=63

                  Netlaw replies: Non consummation is no longer a ground for dissolution but, under section 31 of the Family Proceedings Act 1980, a Family Court can declared void a marriage if there was an absence of true consent at the time of the marriage.

                • vto

                  weka, I am clearly trying to communicate with berny d in a form he is familiar with i.e. gross and unrealistic over-exagerration designed to raise the antagonism levels. My statement is obviously as ridiculous as his own.

                  Seriously though, if you don’t believe that it is a woman’s duty to so service or be subjucated then you should take it up with bernyd, as I did – he was the one suggesting it.

                  Anyways, this is such s stupid side thread, with an attachment to reality about the size of spiders webbing.

                  • weka

                    Ok, vto, sometimes those attempts at sarcasm/satire etc go over my head.
                     
                    I do think Berny was being unnecessarily offensive, but I don’t accept that he has no point at all. I have no trouble believing that some women in some marriages are coerced into sex. I’ve seen it to a lesser degree amongst my own friends where women have needed to have a break from sex for a while for various reasons and their husbands have not handled that at all well. Not that that is restricted to marriage.
                     
                    Despite our self image, NZ is not particularly enlightened about sex and equality.

                • BernyD

                  Fair enough, I was refering to these terms as our politicians were going on about a “Marriage” being between a man and a woman.

                  After a quick scan through the Marriage act(s) (Thanks for the link by the way), I can’t see any reference to “Between a Man and a Woman.”

                  So I wonder why they are saying it’s illegal for Man/Man or Woman/Woman.

                  And I recall some 20 years ago when women were powerless to prosecute their Husbands for rape, and new laws being instigated which allowed them to say “No” in no uncertian terms.

                  I guess the reall problem is peoples perceptions of what Marriage is, and they undertake a marriage with certian expectations which are based more on culture than truth, and the reality only becomes apparent after the fact.

                  • McFlock

                    The bill explains the problem. Although the Marriage Act does mention gender, practise has been to refuse marriage licences to same-sex couples. When it was initially tried, the courts found marriage was customarily defined as man+woman. So parliament need to provide a bit more guidance on the issue.

                    • BernyD

                      So “Marriage” was defined by common conception.
                      Which leads to all sorts of problems, the courts can only do so much.
                      If someone thinks they are acting within the Law it validates behaviour.

                    • McFlock

                      The courts thought that was the common definition at the time. But the precedent stands to this day. Hence the explicit change. Like when parliament explicitly went from saying a husband could legally rape his wife to explicitly stating that rape, even of a spouse, is illegal. Quite some time ago.
                           
                      How does marriage need changing again, in your opinion? 

                    • BernyD

                      It needs to be defined in such a way that people understand where they stand.
                      From young children through to adults.

                      I’m not saying remove peoples rights or choices, just make sure people understand what it does not grant them.

                      A lot of Domestic violence occurs because of these misunderstandings.

                      Many of them are created by Churches, and they are not legal.

                      But prosecuting someone who doesn’t believe they are in the wrong, is not as easy as people seem to think.
                      Let alone expressing remorse or trying to find a fitting punishment.

                      It sounds silly in this day and age, but if someone truly believes they are acting within the Law then they will act on it, what is a valid punishment for that someone ?, they were acting in good faith on an implied contract that had no real qualification.

                      The Equal rights for Gay and Lesbians were already allowed for in the Marriage Act, yet Church based interpretation made it impossible for them to actually marry.

                      The act should define what marriage actually is in a Civilised sense, all the personal choices and options are the participants to decide.

                      A Churchs’ ideology has no place in our Law system, until this is fixed there will always be people trying to abuse the whole concept of “Marriage” for their own advantage.

                    • McFlock

                      Church definitions of marriage have nothing to do with the current definition, other than that a lot of people were religious at the time the definition was fixed in the courts.
                           
                      We are talking about the secular registrar granting a marriage licence – what churches do in the privacy of their own congregation is nothing to do with me. The marriage act, in 1955, was framed around man+woman, e.g. the list of people a man is forbidden to marry involves close female relatives, and the list of people a woman is not permitted to marry involves close male relatives, but not vice versa.
                             
                      As for domestic abuse being the result of a misunderstanding of marriage entitlements, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Their behaviour is not “validated”.
                         
                      But then I notice you didn’t actually supply an alternative definition of your own.  

                    • BernyD

                      Like I said it’s hard to tell them what it is, we should be telling them what it isn’t

                      Without an actual definition (Which I’m not qualified to make), people have no ground to stand on, they just have to accept the common perceptions.

                      The Law enforcers are faced with the same delema.

                      And whilst their actions may be illegal and end up in court, it is after the fact, which doesn’t help women or partners in an abusive relationship.

                      If everyone knew where they stood from day one, they would have a lot more personal power to apply to themselves and their current situation.

                    • McFlock

                      I’m not sure whether an information pamphlet that says “you’re not allowed to beat or rape your wife” will have too much of an effect on someone who believes it’s okay to beat or rape their spouse.
                                 
                      This reminds me of the old employment law “but what does ‘good faith’ actually mean?” argument. Anyone who really needs to work off a definition is a dick, and (being a dick) will work to find loopholes in the definition and still not really get that they’re doing something wrong.
                               
                      And getting spouses to realise that they can get out of the situation could always do with more resources, but again often takes more than a definition. 

                    • BernyD

                      True, but these things are not Legislated in NZ, it’s currently a case of “Go and ask the Church”.

                      Which means the actual Law or Contract is based on Hearsay.

                      This isn’t “Ground to stand on” in a civilised world.

                      For evryones sake “Marriage” needs to be defined.

                      If we want our Kids to have a “Future” they need ground like this.

                      It’s a fundamental for everyone.

                      If we leave it up to the individual, then some fundamentalist could “Write” their own law, and enforce it within the family unit. Not legal, but still happening everyday.

                    • McFlock

                      No.

                      The trouble is that the marriage act was obviously designed around man+woman, even if not explicitly defined as such.      
                      Definitions are reached based on what is commonly understood at the time and what, as much as the courts can divine, parliament intended.  
                               
                      This is not the result of consulting churches.
                      This is not “hearsay”.
                      It is judicial interpretation.
                               
                      I don’t see what the problem is. If a religious couple wants to apply their own religious interpretation of “marriage” to the secular paperwork of the same name, then as long as they act within the law (assault, rape, drugs, etc all off the table), that’s none of my business. 

            • Carol 3.1.1.1.1.2

              Are conjugal elements not required to ensure the birth of children and a lineage to pass on property inheritance? And traditionally it has been tied to a patriarchal lineage.

              • weka

                Also traditionally the taking of the woman’s virginity, which establishes her as the property of her husband and no other man, and makes sure any children are his. That’s why the marriage has to be consummated soon after it takes place – proof of virginity ensuring the first born is the husband’s.

    • Carol 3.2

      I’m no fan of the traditional institution of marriage, but the reality is that it’s not going to die any time soon. It’s too embedded in our wider institutions and laws.

      As well as incorporating some dubious patriarchal values, I think traditionally marriage has a lot to do with socio-economic arrangements – ownership of property, role of children in inheritance etc.

      • vto 3.2.1

        You’re right Carol, it has a huge amount to do with the structure of society. It is clearly one of the base foundation blocks. This should be no surprise.

        So here’s a question – if you think society has done pretty well over the last few hundred periods of time then how much of that success can be put down to the particular base foundation stone of marriage?

        • weka 3.2.1.1

          Marriage as we know it now is not universal and not that common in the history of humans. I wouldn’t call it successful. Like Carol said, formalised marriage, sanctioned by the state, is about control of property and progeny.

        • Tracey 3.2.1.2

          vto – or in spite of it in the case of some women and children. Im not dissing “marriage” for those who want it but nor am I prepared to consider it is somehow a beacon for society “success”.

          • vto 3.2.1.2.1

            I don’t disagree that for some the institution has been less than favourable. The long term average is the consideration though, rather than the extremities at each end. But whatever the case there is no doubt that marriage is a beacon for society and its outcomes. Marriage has shaped our society as much as any other structure or institution, if not more. As such it has been one of the main influences on the shape and success of our society, or one of the base foundation stones. Whether it is considered a success or not is immaterial to the influence marriage has had.

            I am not saying it is good or bad, I saying it is one of the main influences. If you consider society relatively successful then marriage has contributed substantially to that, and if you consider society relatively unsuccessfully then marriage has contributed substantially to that.

            • weka 3.2.1.2.1.1

              Here’s another way to think about it. What happens to marriage when you give women economic emancipation?

              • vto

                Well that is quite unrelated to the point I was making.

                But nonetheless I imagine if that happenned then there would be far fewer marriages. Perhaps. I think that society would look rather different. Neither of the sexes would need each other except for procreation. Perhaps procreation emancipation would be an even greater change. But I don’t know – that would appear to be so far from the eons of history that our genes would react against it.

                You don’t seem to have much time for marriage as an institution that contributes to society, which would probably be contrary to the majority view.

                • McFlock

                  Um – surely it would be a marriage between economic equals (well, roughly). Like if same-gender people were to get married.
                         
                   

                • Colonial Viper

                  “economic emancipation”

                  Looking at it in a different way, the large scale entry of women into the workforce was largely forced by wage declines which meant that households needed a second income. Perversely, the entry of a large amount of new labour into the work force depressed wages even further making it worse (overall) for all, both men and women alike. And once you netted out the costs of being in a job eg childcare, transport, clothing, takeaways on the run, the boost to the household from a second income became minimal while life became more stressful.

                  Latest US research suggests that 2 income households are now worse off than 1 income households were 30 years ago.

                  And with both people in a household working, both family life and spousal relationships came under tremendous additional strain.

                  What we need is for households to be economically sustainable on one decent income, whether that is earned by a man or woman.

                  • vto

                    Oh but for that.

                    Perhaps a big brain from the right or from business could explain why that previous position has been lost and how it could be recovered?

                    Problem seems to be that there are no big brains from the right or from business who front on these questions. Perhaps it is worth re-visiting my suggestion of a blog bout with two or three combatants from each side arguing out these propositions. They could each tag-team it. No intruders allowed – only the combatants. There could be Hooton and Farrar from the right, and r0b and McCarten from the left (or some such).

                    There is no decent forum where these important matters can be genuinely and credibly exchanged.

                • weka

                  vto, it already happened, in the 70s with the introduction of the DPB. Once women had access to an income of their own, it was far easier to leave a marriage. And they have. I would guess that many men feel easier about leaving a marriage now too with the knowledge that they’re not leaving someone completely destitute (that’s me being generous, mostly women still end up significantly poorer when a marriage fails).

                  My point being that state sanctioned marriage has been about control of women, children and property rights, and when you take that control away there is less incentive to stay in that particular arrangement. Humans by and large seem much better off in extended family systems with more fluid concepts of partnership. Placing the responsibility for raising children with a wider net of family than with two people who often outgrow their initial attraction and desire to be with each other seems sensible.

                  So really, what is marriage for now? If we now give state sanction, protection and benefits to all couples who stay together a certain amount of time, what is the point of the state being involved in ‘marriage’ at all?

                  And why do those protections and benefits apply only to heteronormative relationships? Doesn’t this actively discourage other forms of family and thus make children more vulnerable?

    • Jaybob 3.3

      “The Fact is men want to marry so they can force themselves on someone else regardless of the other parties wishes in the matter.”

      That is definitely NOT a fact.

      ps Do the capitalised words indicate flecks of spittle?

    • Jackal 3.4

      Most men don’t marry so they can “legally rape their partners”. That’s clearly a statement only a misandrist could make.

      • BernyD 3.4.1

        So why not drop conjugal rights altogether then ?

        • McFlock 3.4.1.1

          sorry? What “conjugal rights”, just to be absolutely clear?

          • BernyD 3.4.1.1.1

            Consumation, ie not valid until sex

            • McFlock 3.4.1.1.1.1

              Can’t find it in the Marriage Act.
              Got a source for your claim that a marriage isn’t “valid” until the spouses have sex? 

              • Carol

                As I understand it, an un-consumated marriage can be reasons for voiding a marriage.

                • McFlock

                  I think the Catholic Church requires the marriage to be unconsummated to get an annulment, but civil law is simply “irreconcilable differences“.
                     
                  Basically, I think BernyD is quite anxious for a change that actually happened quite some time ago. 

            • Carol 3.4.1.1.1.2

              Consummation is required for birthing children and ensuring someone to bequeath property to.

              But the links between these have changed quite a bit in recent years with artificial insemination etc.

              • weka

                I would have thought they changed many decades ago. Many people get married with no intention of having children.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.5

      The Fact is men want to marry so they can force themselves on someone else regardless of the other parties wishes in the matter.

      Spousal Rape has been illegal in NZ for quite some time – I believe from the mid 1970s in fact.

  4. MJC 4

    These issues are distractions from the real issues facing working class new Zealanders.
    I suggest reading “Deer Hunting with Jesus” by Joe Bagent. This book explains why working class voters in the US have been voting for right wing parties– because the left wing parties have been hijacked by middleclass liberal social issues like gay marriage. This is happening in NZ too.

    http://www.amazon.com/Deer-Hunting-Jesus-Dispatches-Americas/dp/030733936X

    • Carol 4.1

      MJC, we can focus on more than one issue at once. And the US situation is not always immediately transferable to NZ. It looks like the marriage equality bill will pass with most young people well behind it…. and the left can continue to focus on crucial issues asset sales, poverty etc.

      It’s not an either/or situation.

    • weka 4.2

      So the left should be made of parties that support prejudiced working class white men?
       
      The US and NZ are such different sets of cultures that I don’t think a useful comparison can be made. 
       
      “This is happening in NZ too.”
       
      How come everyone round here is complaining about Labour moving to the right then?
       

      • Tracey 4.2.1

        weka, no the left should be made up of “right”-thinking people, like ACT and National. ;)

    • Tracey 4.3

      the sky didnt fall when civil unions were permitted (despite such dire predictions from many, including the faith-based) and it won’t when marriage is introduced to all. It’s not gay folks making this a bigger deal than it need be it’s faith-based folk and bigots.

    • gobsmacked 4.4

      Using the “distraction” argument is now itself a distraction.

      The bill was put in the ballot. Can’t be undone. The bill was drawn from the ballot. Can’t be undone.

      Unless you have a time machine, what exactly are you suggesting should be done to prevent the “distraction”? Do you want to make it go away? OK – how about … pass it quickly, with broad support? One injustice addressed, time for the next one.

      So this “distraction” argument clearly fails. Unless “distraction” is code for something else.

    • fatty 4.5

      “These issues are distractions from the real issues facing working class new Zealanders.”

      Typical statement from someone who is not being subjugated….as others have said, there can be more than one issue to focus on. There are many kinds of oppression/exclusion. To focus on one does not mean the others are forgotten, or less worthy. We have gender, ethnic, economic, generational, and sexuality inequality (plus many more). These should all be focused on, not just one.

  5. Tom Gould 5

    “But the level of malice expressed by some of those opposed to marriage equality is disturbing.”

    Compared to what, the level of malice of some of those supporting the Bill?

  6. ak 6

    It’s all over bar the warm glow of satisfaction at Progression’s inexorable march. The Greasy Geek wouldn’t have come out in favour without cast-iron polling confirmation of public opinion.

    The last vestiges of Victoriana and the victims of Catholic barbarism will squeal a bit, but most kiwis are no longer fixated on sex. Life beyond the groin is poised to blossom in all but the fatally afflicted.

    And coming soon, the final stake in ACT and racist hatemongering as Craig scoops up the dregs.

    Happy days.

  7. If we can tear ourselves away from the polarity of gay marriage for a second, is there a discussion here about the value of consciences votes? I’m not sure where I stand on the issue, but they do strike me as very undemocratic. I only ask, because I’m interested in the way politics and morality intersect. Take the US for example (a preoccupation of mine), there they are inextricably intertwined. We separate them with a democratic deficit. Is there a middle ground?

    As I say, I’m not taking a side on this, just interested in people’s views.

    • McFlock 7.1

      Personally, I think every vote should be along the lines of a conscience vote – each mp has to state their position. 
      Maybe the list MPs can to the party-based block/proxy voting, but electorates should be able to see exactly where and why their mp voted X.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2

      I’m not sure where I stand on the issue, but they do strike me as very undemocratic.

      Translation: I’m not taking sides but this is the side I’m on.
      Almost sounds like Pete G.

      Initially, when representative democracy was first formulated, each MP was envisioned as an independent representative of their electorate and thus only required to vote in accordance with their conscience. With the advent of parties this changed and MPs started voting in line with their party rather than in accordance with their conscience because they were assumed to have been voted for on the parties policies. So this brings us to a members bill where the party doesn’t have a specific political position for a policy. In such a case the vote is left to the MPs conscience as a representative of their electorate.

      For The Greens this isn’t a conscience vote as the party does have a position in favour of marriage equality.

  8. AmaKiwi 8

    Adolf Hitler, Stalin, and Mao all had a conscience. Big deal!

    Why should any of us give a damn about the consciences of Paula Bennett, Judith Collins, Key, Brownlee, Shearer, Cunliffe, or anyone in Parliament?

    Let the people decide in referendums. If I feel strongly on an issue, I can try to convince my neighbors of my view. If I fail, so be it. Maybe in time the majority will agree with me. Or maybe in time I will come to share their views.

    Do politicians have a conscience? Yes, but they aren’t worth shit because they also think they are entitled to dictate to us. Autocracy is immoral. We should decide. NOT them.

    • fatty 8.1

      I don’t like referendums.
      Sadly, I think the bigots would win a referendum on this issue, despite the majority being in favour of marriage equality.

      • AmaKiwi 8.1.1

        You have more confidence in politicians than you do in your fellow citizens?

        Referendums are not about YOU winning. They are about WHO decides.

        In politics we win some and we lose some.

        I would like to know the decision was NOT made by graft, corruption, and bullies.

        I would like to know when John Key, Bill English, Gerry Brownlee, Paula Bennett, and Judith Collins attempt to impose an unpopular law on us, the PEOPLE can veto it in a citizens initiated referendum.

        • fatty 8.1.1.1

          “You have more confidence in politicians than you do in your fellow citizens?”

          Generally yes, for example the anti-smacking legislation. The referendum was against the change, but the politicians were for it. I think the politicians made the correct call because they had better information and were not swayed by misinformation.
          Don’t get me wrong, politicians are dick-heads, and most of them are selfish idiots that should not be trusted, but I hate on the stupid citizens that vote them in. So, I kinda do have more confidence in politicians than I do in our fellow citizens.

          “Referendums are not about YOU winning. They are about WHO decides.”

          Of course its not about me ‘winning’, that’s illogical. How would I lose on every referendum?
          My issue is with how referendums are done, the wording can change the whole process, and those who vote on them are limited. If it was compulsory for everyone to vote, and everyone had access to a balanced argument from both sides, then a referendum would be better.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2

        I don’t like referendums.

        And I’m in favour of them. We decide what to do, the politicians and the ministries enact it as our administrators. I think we’d get better policies than we do now because the politicians cater to the capitalists rather than the people.

        Sadly, I think the bigots would win a referendum on this issue, despite the majority being in favour of marriage equality.

        Nope, if this issue was left to a referendum the bigots would lose.

        • TheContrarian 8.1.2.1

          Yah, but the risk you take with a referendum is having to accept you might lose. And that case you just have to suck it up.

        • AmaKiwi 8.1.2.2

          We have been taught to distrust ordinary people. Every day I trust my fellow citizens to not kill me on the road, to not adulterate my food, to care for me when I am ill, etc., etc. I trust them to keep my confidential information private, and they do. But Paula Bennett won’t!

          Why are so many of us afraid to trust our neighbors to make an intelligent political decision when we place our lives in their hands every day and they do not fail us?

          Referendums mean we won’t get extreme legislation.

          It takes a lot of work to write and pass a bill. No MP is going to write a bill they think might be overturned in a referendum.

          • vto 8.1.2.2.1

            Exatly right annakiwi.

            I often hear the smug call, when discussing referendums, “oooooh no, I don’t think those yucky people down the mall could be trusted to make such an important decision” while at the exact same moment, in reverse, be confident as all hell that their own decision in such important matters is one to be trusted.

            It is ignorant arrogance and I see it in the posts up and down around here.

            The exact parallel is the one whereby everyone considers themselves to be an above average driver. ha ha – fools.

            • fatty 8.1.2.2.1.1

              “The exact parallel is the one whereby everyone considers themselves to be an above average driver. ha ha – fools.”

              Not really, voting and political opinions are often shaped by the media, misinformation and a lack of understanding as to how policies will play out. In contrast, the ability to drive is dependant on a number of issues, none of which relate to political opinion.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Not really, voting and political opinions are often shaped by the media, misinformation and a lack of understanding as to how policies will play out.

                Well, the MSM and the misinformation that they publish can be addressed with suitable laws and regulations. Lack of understanding can be partially addressed by making the correct information available.

              • vto

                silly fatty. these decisions concern things that happen every day in every life. nothing more nothing less. it sounds like you consider your driving to be above average but i bet it isn’t.

                • fatty

                  “it sounds like you consider your driving to be above average but i bet it isn’t.”

                  Sorry, I’m a cyclist, don’t drive much these days, but I do have an opinion on drivers. Almost every time my life is endangered by motor-monkeys it is usually an old/middle aged white male who doesn’t have the courtesy to use an indicator, or turn his lazy fat head 90 degrees. I have never had an issue with boyracers, even though I live in Chch and often cycle late at night on weekends…so I get your point about shitty drivers are usually the most vocal about other people being bad drivers.

                  But I just don’t get how this is like political opinions…I also cannot understand why you would go on a political blog and accuse people of being arrogant because they believe they have superior political knowledge (why else would we be here?). Everyone on TS that posts their opinion has a superior knowledge of politics compared with the average person. And almost all are “confident as all hell that their own decision in such important matters is one to be trusted”…there is nothing wrong with that.

                  If I went on a computer blog and announced that everyone on here possesses an “ignorant arrogance” because they talk about their interests and opinions as if they know more than the average person…what would happen? They would tell me the average person doesn’t know shit about computers, they would tell me that they know a lot because computers are their interest, and then they would tell me I was a pompous dick…and they’d be right.

        • fatty 8.1.2.3

          “Nope, if this issue was left to a referendum the bigots would lose”

          I’m not so sure, I think almost all of those that are against marriage equality will vote against it in a referendum, whereas only some of those for marriage equality will vote for it. That’s why I don’t like referendums.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2.3.1

            So, no actual reason then, just a feeling.

            I’m reasonably certain that the bigots would vote against marriage equality and that everyone else, which makes up about 80% of the population, would vote for it. My reasoning for this is that a) research shows that most people aren’t bigots and b) the polls give such indication.

            • fatty 8.1.2.3.1.1

              No, its a feeling, based on reasons…

              I’ve never knew it was 80/20?…All I’ve heard is 63% in favour: http://www.researchnz.com/pdf/Media%20Releases/RNZ%20Media%20Release%20-%202011-07-12%20Same%20sex%20marriages.pdf

              “My reasoning for this is that a) research shows that most people aren’t bigots and b) the polls give such indication.”

              I agree with both those points, but questions remain regarding who will turn up to vote in the referendum. ResearchNZ shows that much of the support comes from 18-34 age group…we only need to go back a few months to note how politically apathetic this group is.
              If we look at what happened in Slovenia, more people wanted equal gay rights, but a referendum was forced by the bigot minority, who all turned up for the vote. Many of those (mostly younger) people who were for equality, were not ‘for it enough’ to get out and vote. So in Slovenia, they had opinion polls supporting equality, but when it came time to tick a box, many couldn’t be bothered. And from what I’ve seen, their younger people are far more politically engaged than ours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenian_same-sex_union_referendum,_2012#Opinion_polls

              So I agree that your A & B points are true, I just don’t believe it will carry on over into a referendum, With Family First, the conservatives and many churches bringing massive amounts of funding, it would be a close. Its hard to motivate people to vote on an issue which generally doesn’t affect them – it affects the bigots

              • Draco T Bastard

                I just don’t believe it will carry on over into a referendum,

                Well then, we have to work on getting our people engaged rather than just saying that it’s too hard.

    • QoT 8.2

      Switzerland. Women’s right to vote. 1971.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1

        Nobody said it was perfect. Personally, I suspect that they went about it the wrong way but that does seem to be how affirming basic human rights have gone in pretty much every country. Meanwhile:

        In a nationwide referendum on June 5, 2005, the Swiss people approved by 58% a registered partnership law, granting same-sex couples the same rights and protections as opposite-sex couples, except:

        It does seem that they weren’t that far behind us in same sex unions. Considering the numbers I’d say that was a result of that Universal Suffrage that you mentioned.

        • QoT 8.2.1.1

          Nobody said it was perfect.

          Well, no, Draco, but AmaKiwi did say Let the people decide in referendums. This is obviously not actually a guarantee of just or equitable outcomes when the people whose rights are being decided on are either a minority or, in the case of 1971, don’t get to vote at all.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1.1.1

            No, there’s no guarantees but, as I said, on human rights I believe it’s a question of how you ask. If you ask a dominant group if others should have the same rights as them then they will say no (especially if that dominant group is a minority) but if you format and phrase the question correctly then they will have no option but to say yes because saying no would remove their own legitimacy. i.e:

            Looking for universal human rights we would like you to answer these questions:
            Should you be able to vote?
            Should you be able to marry?
            .
            .
            .

            Throw in some counter balancing questions and I’m pretty sure that you’d find out basic human rights quick smart.

            • QoT 8.2.1.1.1.1

              Sure. If we remove all the problems with holding referenda on basic human rights, then they’re totally unproblematic!

              All I’m responding to is the notion that sitting back and saying ~let the people decide~ is an unproblematic statement that we can all aspire to.

  9. Richard Down South 9

    More proof the act of Marriage should have nothing to do with any religion, when it comes to the State. The Catholic church doesnt get upset if someone is married in a Hindu wedding, or a non church wedding (at the beach/in a park), so they and other churches should keep their noses out of this.

    “Thou shalt not judge” & the concept of free will, etc, surely

  10. AmaKiwi 10

    “churches should keep their noses out of this”

    But it’s OK for corporations to meddle in every parliamentary decision?

    • Richard Down South 10.1

      They should keep their noses out too…

      • AmaKiwi 10.1.1

        +1

        We will not get control of our country until we can limit election bribes (a.k.a. campaign donations) and Beehive bribes (a.k.a. lobbyists).

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    In 2010, NIWA found Canterbury’s Te Waihora/Lake Ellesmere had the worst nutrient status of 140 lakes around New Zealand that it measured. In 2011, the National Government committed to spending $15 million across the country through the Fresh Start for...
    Greens | 08-10
  • Adding value not herbicides
    The HT swedes, and other brassicas, might seem like a good idea to farmers struggling against weeds but like the GE road, is this the path we want our agriculture to be treading? The Federated Farmers President, Dr William Rolleston...
    Greens | 07-10
  • ‘Blame the Planner’ bizarre approach to child poverty
    The National Government is stooping to a bizarre new low in blaming "planning processes" for poverty and inequality, after spending six years doing nothing about either the housing market or child poverty, the Green Party said today. Finance Minister Bill...
    Greens | 07-10
  • Media Advisory
    MANA Leader, Hone Harawira will not be available to speak with media today regarding his release “Recount Just One Step To restoring Credibility”. He is however available for media comment tomorrow, Tuesday the 8th of October, all media arrangements are...
    Mana | 07-10
  • RECOUNT JUST ONE STEP TO RESTORING CREDIBILITY
    “I have applied for a judicial recount of the votes in the Tai Tokerau election because it is one step in trying to restore credibility to the electoral process in the north, and, I suspect, in all other Maori electorates...
    Mana | 07-10
  • MANA SEEKS TAI TOKERAU RECOUNT
    The MANA Movement is supporting Leader Hone Harawira’s application for a judicial re-count in the Te Tai Tokerau electorate for the 2014 general election. President Lisa McNab says there are a number of serious issues of concern regarding the ability...
    Mana | 07-10
  • MANA to fight mass privatisation of state housing
    Announcements over the past 12 hours from the Minister responsible for Housing New Zealand, Bill English, and Minister for Social Housing, Paula Bennett, make clear the government’s intention for the mass privatisation of state housing. This comes during the middle...
    Mana | 07-10
  • Journalists have right to protect sources
    Legal authorities must respect the right of journalist Nicky Hager to protect the source of his material for his Dirty Politics book under Section 68 of the Evidence Act, Acting Labour Leader David Parker says. “It is crucial in an...
    Labour | 06-10
  • It shouldn’t take the Army to house the homeless
    National’s move to speed up its state house sell-off shows it is bankrupt of new ideas, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “National has been in office for six years, yet the housing crisis has got worse every month and...
    Labour | 06-10
  • Government must lift social housing supply, not shuffle the deck chairs
    National's decision to shift the state provision of housing to third parties is a smokescreen for the Government decreasing the provision of affordable housing, the Green Party said today."What National should be doing is increasing the supply of both social...
    Greens | 06-10
  • Election 2014 – the final count
    While we have to wait for the final booth level counts we can now see how well we did in the specials and look at electorate level data. First off special votes (and disallowed/recounted votes etc). There was a change...
    Greens | 06-10
  • We need more houses, not Ministers
    The Government’s decision to have three housing Ministers will create a dog’s breakfast of the portfolio and doesn’t bode well for fixing the country’s housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “New Zealanders need more houses, not more Ministers....
    Labour | 05-10
  • MANA’S CHALLENGE TO THE 51st PARLIAMENT
    Ten years ago I led 50,000 Maori on the historic FORESHORE AND SEABED MARCH from Te Rerenga Wairua to the very steps of this parliament, in a march against the greatest land grab in the history of this country –...
    Mana | 03-10
  • Is this really necessary?
    No one denies chief executives should be well paid for their skills and experience, but it is the efforts of all employees which contribute to company profits, Labour’s Acting Leader David Parker says. “Salaries paid to chief executives come at...
    Labour | 02-10
  • Lyttelton Port workers also deserve pay rises
    Hard slog by Lyttelton Port workers contributed to strong financial growth for the company and they deserve to be rewarded for their work as much as its chief executive, says Labour’s Acting Leader David Parker. “Lyttelton Port chief executive Peter...
    Labour | 02-10
  • Māori Party must seek guarantees on Māori seats
    Labour is calling on the Māori Party to ensure protection of the Māori seats is part of its coalition deal with National which is being considering this weekend, Labour’s Māori Affairs spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta says. “For the third consecutive term,...
    Labour | 02-10
  • Donaghys job losses another blow to Dunedin
    The loss of 30 jobs from Donaghys rope and twine factory is yet another blow to the people and economy of Dunedin, says Dunedin South Labour MP Clare Curran. “Donaghys was founded in 1876; the company has survived two world...
    Labour | 02-10
  • 5AA Australia – NZ on UN Security Council + Dirty Politics Lingers On
    5AA Australia: Selwyn Manning and Peter Godfrey deliver their weekly bulletin Across The Ditch. General round up of over night talkback issues: Thongs, Jandals and flip-flops… ISSUE 1: New Zealand has been successful in its campaign to become a non...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • When I mean me, I mean my office & when I call whaleoil I mean not as m...
    This. Is. Ludicrous. Green Party co-leader Russel Norman put the first of what are likely to be many questions about Mr Key’s relationship with Slater, asking him how many times he had phoned or texted the blogger since 2008. “None...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • A brief word on describing the Government as ‘boring and bland’
    The narrative being sown is that this Government will be a boring and bland third term. Boring and bland. Since the election, Key has announced he is privatising 30% of state houses without reinvesting any of that money back into housing society’s most...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • More Latté Than Lager: Reflections on Grant Robertson’s Campaign Launch.
    BIKERS? SERIOUSLY! Had Grant Robertson’s campaign launch been organised by Phil Goff? Was this a pitch for the votes of what few Waitakere Men remain in the Labour Party? Was I even at the right place? Well, yes, I was....
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • About Curwen Ares Rolinson
    Curwen Ares Rolinson – Curwen Ares Rolinson is a firebrand young nationalist presently engaged in acts of political resistance deep behind enemy lines amidst the leafy boughs of Epsom. He is affiliated with the New Zealand First Party; although his...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • About Kelly Ellis
    Kelly Ellis.Kelly Ellis – As a child, Kelly Ellis didn’t so much fall into the cracks, but willfully wriggled her way into them. Ejected from Onslow College – a big job in the 70s – Kelly worked in car factories,...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • About Kate Davis
    Kate Davis.Kate Davis – Having completed her BA in English and Politics, Kate is now starting her MA. Kate works as a volunteer advocate at Auckland Action Against Poverty and previously worked for the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective. Kate writes...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Parker does a Shearer – oh for a Labour Leader who can challenge msm fals...
    Sigh. It seems David Parker has done a Shearer… Like a cult and too red – Parker on LabourLabour leadership contender David Parker says Labour borders on feeling like “a cult” and must look at its branding – including its...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • A brief word on the hundreds of millions NZ is spending on the secret intel...
    The enormity of the mass surveillance state NZ Government’s have built carries a huge price tag… Kiwis pay $103m ‘membership fee’ for spyingThe $103 million taxpayer funding of New Zealand’s intelligence agencies is effectively a membership fee for joining the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Where. Is. Jason. Ede?
    Where. Is. Jason. Ede?...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Labour’s Din of Inequity
    Watching Labour’s leadership candidates on Q+A on Sunday, I noticed the ongoing use of terms like “opportunity” and “aspiration”, and “party of the workers”. What do these mean? We glean much from Labour, and from the media about Labour, but not...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • “Blue-Greenwash” fails the test when it comes to endangered dolphins
    National’s pre-election promises saw some wins for the environment – perhaps as the party sought to appease its “Blue-Green” voters and broaden its popular appeal. Some of the ecological gains were a long time in the making, overdue even– such...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Reasons not to be cheerful, Part #272b
    Why don’t you get back into bed? The next few years — the rest of this century — are not going to be pretty. There is an obvious disconnect between any remaining political ambition to fix climate change and the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • OIA protocols and official advice ignored to hide Child Poverty
    It might not seem so now, but child poverty was a major election issue. What a pity we did not have the full debate. In that debate it would have been very helpful to have seen the Ministry of Social...
    The Daily Blog | 20-10
  • Previewing the 4 candidates for Leader of the Labour Party
    The extraordinary outbursts by Shearer last week highlights just how toxic that Caucus is. Shearer was on every major media platform as the ABC attack dog tearing into Cunliffe in the hope of diminishing Cunliffe’s support of Little by tearing...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – the sudden explosion of ‘left’ blogs
    Time to Teach or more people will suffer from P.A.I.D. Political And Intellectual Dysmorphia.I was on the Twitter and a guy followed me so of course I did the polite thing and followed him back. He wrote a blog so...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Ego vs Eco
    Ego vs Eco...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • We can’t let the Roastbuster case slip away
    Those of us (like me) left with hope that the police would aggressively follow through on the large amount of evidence on offer to them (let’s not forget they forgot they even had some at one point) in the Roastbusters...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Food, shelter and medicine instead of bombs and bullets
    The on-going conflict across the Middle East – due in large part to the US-led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq – has created another humanitarian crisis of biblical proportion. The essentials of life are desperately needed in Iraq and Syria...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • The politics of electorate accommodations
    National’s electorate accommodations with ACT and United Future were a big factor in it winning re-election. Interestingly, there is another electorate accommodation scenario whereby the centre-left could have come out on top, even with the same distribution of party votes....
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Why you should join the TPPA Action on 8 November
    On 8 November 2014, thousands of Kiwis will take part in the International Day of Action to protest the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA). The rally cry for us is TPPA – Corporate Trap, Kiwis Fight Back. Why should you join...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • GUEST BLOG – Patrick O’Dea: no new coal mines
    Green Party and Mana Party policy is “NO NEW COAL MINES!” Auckland Coal Action is trying to put this policy into action on the ground. ACA after a hard fought two year campaign waged alongside local residents and Iwi, in...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Comparing Police action – Hager raid vs Roast Buster case
    This satire had the NZ Police contact TDB and threaten us with 6months in prison for using their logo.   The plight of Nicky Hager and the draconian Police actions against him has generated over  $53 000 in donations so...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • Malala Yousafzai, White Saviour Complexes and Local Resistance
    Last week, Malala Yousafzai was the co-recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize. Since her exposure to the worldwide spotlight, her spirit, wisdom and strength have touched the hearts of people everywhere. However, there have been cynics who have argued that...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • Jason Ede is back – but no media can interview him?
    Well, well, well. Jason Ede, the main figure connected to John Key’s office and the Dirty Politics black ops is back with a company with deep ties to the National Party. One thing you can say about the right –...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Leadership Transitions In Other Parties: A ...
    As cannot have escaped anyone’s attention by now, the country is presently in the grips of an election and campaign that will help determine the fate of the nation for years to come. It’s gripping stuff – with clear divides...
    The Daily Blog | 17-10
  • SkyCity worker says she faces losing her house
    SkyCity worker Carolyn Alpine told the company annual shareholder’s meeting today that she faced the prospect of losing her house because the company had cut her shifts from two a week to one without consultation. The solo mother, has worked...
    The Daily Blog | 17-10
  • Greg O’Connor’s latest push to arm cops & 5 reasons not to
    I was wondering at what point within a 3rd term of National that Police Cheerleader Greg O’Connor would start trying to demand cops be armed. O’Connor must have thought to himself, ‘if bloody Key can get us and the GCSB vast new...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • You can’t have crisis without ISIS
    So the new scary bogeyman ISIS might have chemical weapons that the US secretly found in Iraq, but America didn’t want to expose this find because the WMDs were actually built and made by the US and Europe, the two powers...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • NZ WINS UN SPIN THE BOTTLE! Privately sucking up to America for a decade me...
    Oh, we are loved! Little old NZ, the 53rd state of America after Israel and Australia, gets to sit at the adults table for the special dinner party that is the UN Security Council. How delightful, a decade of privately...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • MEDIA BLOG – Myles Thomas – A World Without Advertising
    Non-commercial broadcasting and media. It’s a solution for all manner of problems ailing our tender nation… voter engagement, unaccountable governance, apathy, stupefaction, public education, science in schools, arts appreciation, cultural cringe… But no-one could’ve guessed that non-commercial media might solve...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • March against war – 2pm Saturday 25th October
    March against war – 2pm Saturday 25th October...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • Whack a mole as US govt foreign policy
    Whack-A-Mole was a popular arcade game from my youth.  It consisted of a waist high cabinet with holes in the top. Plastic moles seemingly randomly pop out of these holes. The purpose of the game was to hit as many...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • In Paean of Debt
    This week is ‘Money Week’. It’s an opportunity to promote to the middle classes, and anyone else who will listen, the virtues of wise ‘investment’. The aims are to promote the mystical (and indeed mythical) virtues of saving for the...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • The last 48 hours – Poverty denial, war denial and unapologetic abuse of ...
    The bewildering speed of events that simply end in Key shrugging and proclaiming he doesn’t really give a shit is coming think and fast as the Government suddenly appreciate the full spectrum dominance they now enjoy. Here is Radio NZ...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Pat O’Dea – Mana 2.0 Rebooted
    Internationally the news is that Evo Morales of Bolivia won big with Left Wing policies But what are the chances that the Left will make a resurgence in this country? As the internecine struggles between the Left and the Right...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • The Blomfield IPCA letter – Has Dirty Politics leaked into the NZ Police ...
    It’s difficult to know what to make of the IPCA letter to Matthew Blomfield over Slater’s continued insistence that the hard drive taken from Matthew wasn’t stolen.  Slater has selectively cherry picked the Police referring back to his claim that Blomfeild perjured...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • ​Media release: Rail and Maritime Transport Union – Auckland move for K...
    The Rail and Maritime Transport Union is questioning a KiwiRail proposal to progressively relocate its Zero Harm personnel from Wellington to Auckland. “The purpose of the Zero Harm team is to drive KiwiRail’s performance in health and safety.  Rail is a...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • Amnesty International – Friend request from an IS militant
    There’s always that one person, that one Facebook friend, usually a musician or event promoter, who, when you so foolishly accept their friend request, will completely inundate your news feed with copious event invitations and promotions. The person who, despite...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • NZ should follow the UK and recognize the Palestinian state
    Over the past two weeks, the United Kingdom and Sweden have made headlines through their decisions to recognize the state of Palestine. They are hardly the first nations to do so. Indeed, 134 countries have, in various ways, given formal...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • The Discordant Chimes of Freedom: Why Labour has yet to be forgiven.
    WHY DOES THE ELECTORATE routinely punish Labour and the Greens for their alleged “political correctness” but not National? It just doesn’t seem fair. Consider, for example, the Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Act 2007 – the so-called “anti-smacking legislation” –...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • Hosking or Henry – Which right wing crypto fascist clown do you want to w...
    So Mediaworks are finally going to make some actual money from their eye watering contract with Paul Henry by launching a new multi-platform Breakfast show over TV, Radio and internet. This is great news for Campbell Live who have dodged...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Families need more money to reduce child poverty
    Prime Minister John Key is mistaken to rule out extending the In Work Tax Credit to all poor children (The Nation 11th Oct) and Child Poverty Action Group challenges government advisors to come up with a more cost effective way...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – Don’t shit on my dream
    Once were dreamers. A large man, walks down the road and, even from 200 yards there’s light showing between his big arms and bigger body. It’s as if he’s put tennis balls under his arms. Two parking wardens walk out...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Labour and ‘special interests’
    The media narrative of Labour is that it is unpopular because it’s controlled by ‘special interests’. This ‘special interests’ garbage is code for gays, Maoris, wimin and unionists. We should show that argument the contempt it deserves. The next Labour...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Housing; broken promises, families in cars, and ideological idiocy (Part Ru...
    . . Continued from: Housing; broken promises, families in cars, and ideological idiocy (Part Tahi) . National’s housing development project: ‘Gateway’ to confusion . Perhaps nothing better illustrates National’s lack of a coherent housing programme than the ‘circus’ that is...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Here’s what WINZ are patronisingly saying to people on welfare when they ...
    Yesterday, a case manager from WINZ called to tell me that I needed to “imagine what I would do if I did not have welfare”. I replied “Well, I guess if I couldn’t live at home, I would be homeless.”...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • David Shearer’s ‘no feminist chicks’ mentality highlights all that is...
    Mr Nasty pays a visit Shearer’s extraordinary outburst last night on NZs favourite redneck TV, The Paul Henry Show, is a reminder of all that is wrong within the Labour Caucus right now… He said the current calls for a female or...
    The Daily Blog | 13-10
  • Greenpeace 1 – Shell 0
    Greenpeace 1 – Shell 0...
    The Daily Blog | 13-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – A Tale Of Two Cities
    Sunday was surreal. I went for a drive and ended up in a different country. It wasn’t intentional but those days of too many literally intertextual references seldom are. There is no doubt that the Sunday drive this week had...
    The Daily Blog | 13-10
  • Auckland Rates Rises Out of Control
    Responding to the NZ Herald report that Auckland ratepayers will face an average of a 29 percent rates increase, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says: “These rate rises show that Len Brown's spending is out of control.”...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Protest at New Plymouth Oil and Gas Expo
    About 30 protesters from Climate Justice Taranaki, Frack-free Kapiti, Te Uru Pounamu Action Group, Oil Free Wellington, Frack-free Manawatu and the east coast protested yesterday outside New Plymouth's biennial Oil and Gas Expo at the TSB Stadium....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • FMA warns consumers about cold-calling investment offers
    The Financial Markets Authority (FMA) is warning New Zealand consumers and investors to be wary of cold-calls asking them to buy shares or put their money into offshore firms....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Comprehensive plan needed to end child poverty
    Child Poverty Action Group says it is vital the newly re-elected National government takes a planned and comprehensive approach to reducing child poverty in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Metiria Gets Feed the Kids
    Yesterday the Speaker of the House advised that he had accepted my request to transfer my Feed the Kids (Education (Breakfast and Lunch Programmes in Schools) Amendment) Bill to Metiria Turei of the Green Party....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • DIA undercover investigation leads to jailing
    An undercover Internal Affairs investigation has led to a Hastings man being jailed for three and half years....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Call on Minister McCully to pursue the case of Balibo Five
    Media Information: Call on Minister McCully to pursue the case of journalist Gary Cunningham and the Balibo Five...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Australia and NZ actions on press freedoms alarming
    Global support for investigative journalism in Australia and New Zealand is a welcome response to law changes and a police raid, says the Pacific Freedom Forum...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Call for release of French journalists in West Papua
    West Papua Action Auckland, the EPMU Print and Media Council and the NZ Media Freedom Network call on the Minister of Foreign Affairs to speak out in support of the two French TV journalists whose trial has just begun in...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Court of Appeal: Dotcom v 20th Century Fox Film Corporation
    A The appeal is dismissed. B The 20 August 2014 order of the High Court dealing with confidentiality and the 29 August 2014 order of this Court dealing with confidentiality are set aside. C The confidentiality orders set out in...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Glassons Blasted For Glamourising Animal Cruelty
    Clothing brand Glassons have found themselves embroiled in another controversy after launching a new advert featuring a girl riding a bull. Animal advocacy organisation SAFE have asked them to remove the ad immediately as it glamourises animal cruelty....
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Smuggling honey into New Zealand isn’t sweet
    Smuggling honey into New Zealand isn’t sweet Federated Farmers Bee Industry Group applauds the tough line taken by Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) Border Staff at Auckland Airport. In deporting the couple found trying to smuggle bee products...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Taxpayers’ Union Responds to Joyce on Corporate Welfare
    Responding to Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce’s defence of corporate welfare , Jim Rose, the author of Monopoly Money , a Taxpayers Union report on corporate welfare since 2008, says:...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Speech from the Throne brings welcome focus on children
    Today’s speech from the Throne confirms the Government’s focus on children, youth and their families in the areas of health, education, youth employment, poverty alleviation and Whānau Ora; now the challenge is to ensure every child in New Zealand...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • John’s Job Fairs no fix for unemployment and poverty
    “John Key has clearly been looking to the US for his latest bright idea on dealing with employment issues,” says Auckland Action Against Poverty coordinator Sue Bradford. “Job fairs where the desperately unemployed queue in their corporate best to compete...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Speech From the Throne Foreshadows More Corporate Welfare
    Responding to the Governor General’s Speech from the Throne, which outlined that the Government’s intentions for the next Parliamentary term would include further Business Growth Agenda initiatives, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Green MP to speak at panel on Rainbow Mental Health
    Hamilton, New Zealand: Recently re-elected Green Party MP Jan Logie will be a guest speaker at a panel on the mental health of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Trangender, Takataapui and Intersex people taking place on November 1st as part of the...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Evidence Supports GE Moratorium
    Federated Farmers spokesman Graham Smith's call for a 'rethink' on release of GeneticallyEngineered organisms is misguided, and instead it is time for a formal moratorium on GMOs in the environment.(1)...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Chatham Rise mining could have impact on whales and dolphins
    Wellington, 21 October 2014--Mining phosphate on the Chatham Rise, off the east coast of New Zealand’s south island, could potentially have many impacts on marine mammals like whales and dolphins, the Environmental Protection Agency was told today....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Council endorses Nanaia Mahuta as the next Labour leader
    Te Kaunihera Māori, the Māori Council of the New Zealand Labour Party, have passed a resolution to endorse the Hon Nanaia Mahuta as the next leader of the Labour Party...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Kaumatua to organise petition to end Maori seats
    Ngapuhi kaumatua David Rankin has announced that he will be organising a nationwide petition to seek support from Maori voters to end the Maori seats. “These seats are patronising”, he says. “They imply we need a special status, and that...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Announcing a New Voice for The Left
    Josh Forman is pleased to announce the creation of a new force on the Left of politics in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Public services held back by poor workplace culture
    A new report by Victoria University’s Centre for Labour, Employment and Work shows that public servants are working significant unpaid overtime to ensure the public services New Zealanders value are able to continue....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • iPredict New Zealand Weekly Economic & Political Update
    Andrew Little’s probability of being the next leader of the Labour Party has reached 70% and Jacinda Ardern is favourite to become his deputy, according to the combined wisdom of the 8000+ registered traders on New Zealand’s predictions market, iPredict....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Prison Drug Treatment Unit marks a milestone
    Christchurch Men’s Prison’s Drug Treatment Unit (DTU) celebrated the completion of its 50th six month Drug and Alcohol Programme today, with the graduation of a further twelve offenders....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Security Council seat a chance for NZ to empower women
    The UN Women National Committee Aotearoa New Zealand (UN Women NCANZ) welcomes New Zealand winning a seat on the United Nations Security Council and is calling on New Zealand to use its position to proactively promote effective implementation of the...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Waipareira and ACC sign Partnership
    Waipareira and The Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) have signed a Memorandum of Understanding at Whanau Centre, Henderson – marking a special day for the West Auckland Urban Maori organisation....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Humanitarian aid desperately needed in Iraq and Syria
    Global Peace and Justice Auckland is calling on the government to provide humanitarian funding for non-aligned NGOs (non-governmental organisations) in the Middle East rather than give any support whatever for the US-led military campaign in the area....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Court Judicial Decision: Dotcom v The USA: 17 October 2014
    The United States of America is seeking the extradition of Messrs Dotcom, Batato, Ortmann and Van Der Kolk. The matter has been before the Courts on numerous occasions, and no further recitation of the facts is needed....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Marshall Island poet speaks at UN climate summit
    “The fossil fuel industry is the biggest threat to our very existence as Pacific Islanders. We stand to lose our homes, our communities and our culture. But we are fighting back. This coming Friday thirty Pacific Climate Warriors, joined by...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Many tourist car accidents preventable
    Simple steps could dramatically reduce the number of accidents involving tourists, says the car review website dogandlemon.com ....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • RainbowYOUTH: 25 Years, 25 More
    In 1989, a group of young people in Auckland got together to form a support group for LGBTIQ youth. They called it Auckland Lesbian And Gay Youth (ALGY). After 25 years, several location changes, a name change, a brand reboot...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Outdated Oath shows need for Kiwi Head of State
    MPs are sworn in today and New Zealand Republic has written to MPs asking them to talk about why 121 New Zealanders elected by the people of New Zealand and standing in the New Zealand Parliament swear allegiance to another...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Council shouldn’t revenue grab from windfall valuations
    Auckland Council should state clearly they will not try and capture revenue as a result of the latest valuations and needs reminding that the City’s skyrocketing property values doesn’t change the level or cost of Council’s services, says...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • EPMU endorses Andrew Little for Labour leadership
    The National Executive of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union unanimously endorsed Andrew Little for the role of Labour leader, at a meeting held yesterday. “I have been speaking to our workplace delegates at forums across the country over...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • World Food Day promotes Agroecology not GE technology
    The UN has stated that agroecology is a major solution to feeding the world and caring for the earth....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Labour Names Review Team
    Labour’s New Zealand Council has appointed Bryan Gould as Convenor of its post-General Election Review. He will be joined on the Review Team by Hon Margaret Wilson, Stacey Morrison and Brian Corban....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Contenders for Labour leadership debate for first time
    The contenders for the leadership of the Labour Party debated for the first time on TV One’s Q+A programme today....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • UN Ambassador Jim McLay on TV One’s Q+A programme
    New Zealand's United Nations Ambassador Jim McLay on TV One’s Q+A programme....
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • The Nation: RSA President BJ Clark & Ian Taylor, New NZ Flag
    Lisa Owen interviews RSA President BJ Clark and tech innovator Ian Taylor about changing the NZ flag...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • The Nation: RSA President BJ Clark & Ian Taylor, New NZ Flag
    Lisa Owen interviews RSA President BJ Clark and tech innovator Ian Taylor about changing the NZ flag...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • Lisa Owen interviews Foreign Minister Murray McCully
    Murray McCully says New Zealanders can expect a 5-10 year engagement against Islamic State if we join military action in Iraq and the government will take that “very carefully into account”...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • Lisa Owen interviews Julia Gillard
    Julia Gillard says there is “sufficient evidence” to fight Islamic State and does not think it will increase the risk of a domestic attack...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • NZ businesses to make child abuse a priority conversation
    Many leading New Zealand businesses have partnered with national child advocacy organisation Child Matters to participate in the fourth annual ‘Buddy Day’ - New Zealand’s only child abuse prevention awareness day....
    Scoop politics | 17-10
  • Tribunal decision significant for SMEs
    The Human Rights Review Tribunal decided this week in favour of an employee’s right not to work on Saturdays for religious reasons. The decision may still be appealed but the Director of the Office of Human Rights Proceedings, Robert Kee,...
    Scoop politics | 17-10
  • On The Nation this weekend
    This weekend on The Nation… New Zealand has been elected to the United Nations Security Council, but what happens next? Lisa Owen interviews Foreign Minister Murray McCully from New York about our goals for reform, what America wants from us...
    Scoop politics | 17-10
  • 1000+ supported by Te Arawa Whanau Ora
    Over 1000 individual whānau members are leading happier, healthier, more successful lives as a result of eight passionate and committed Māori organisations working at the coalface to help whānau find success....
    Scoop politics | 17-10
  • Nomination for Board Members Now Open
    CRF’s objective is to create opportunities for people from refugee backgrounds to lead fulfilling lives and contribute to every area of New Zealand society. It is an organisation that undertakes advocacy work using the strengths-based approach,...
    Scoop politics | 16-10
  • Anglican Family Care Otago staff to take industrial action
    Social workers, family workers and support staff working for Anglican Family Care in Dunedin and South Otago will take industrial action after their employer refused a pay increase that would keep up with the rising cost of living....
    Scoop politics | 16-10
  • Use UN Security Council role to overcome inaction and injust
    Amnesty International welcomes New Zealand winning a seat on the UN Security Council and is calling on New Zealand to use the role to ensure the body lives up to its role of safeguarding global peace and security....
    Scoop politics | 16-10
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