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	<title>Comments on: Courting the ethnic vote</title>
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	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: deemac</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-110320</link>
		<dc:creator>deemac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-110320</guid>
		<description>it&#039;s not a racist slur you berk - quite the reverse
yes the Nats are happy to adopt progressive policies once the public has accepted them but we never forget how bitterly they opposed them all at the time 
if you want moral leadership they are the last people you&#039;d look to</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s not a racist slur you berk &#8211; quite the reverse<br />
yes the Nats are happy to adopt progressive policies once the public has accepted them but we never forget how bitterly they opposed them all at the time<br />
if you want moral leadership they are the last people you&#8217;d look to</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ellis</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109863</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109863</guid>
		<description>Tigger wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I guess I know too much about Sam here - a friend gave me a bunch of info about him that I can&#039;t really share online but basicially used the term Uncle Tom to describe him &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh that&#039;s alright then.  As long as it was just your friend using that racist slur, then that&#039;s fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tigger wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I guess I know too much about Sam here &#8211; a friend gave me a bunch of info about him that I can&#8217;t really share online but basicially used the term Uncle Tom to describe him </p></blockquote>
<p>Oh that&#8217;s alright then.  As long as it was just your friend using that racist slur, then that&#8217;s fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Kerry</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109774</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 23:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109774</guid>
		<description>Hideous - shaking the hand of a nat supporter!! I think i just puked in my mouth a wee bit!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hideous &#8211; shaking the hand of a nat supporter!! I think i just puked in my mouth a wee bit!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Daveski</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109758</link>
		<dc:creator>Daveski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109758</guid>
		<description>Anonymouse - I agree entirely that Labour faces real challenges to redefine itself in an MMP environment.  For all Clark and Cullen&#039;s perceived and admitted successes, their version of realpolitik has left Labour exposed in the short term.

The Greens will be obviously disappointed with their failure to significantly increase their vote and as you point out, much of their support is the educated, urban Pakeha.

The Maori Party will always be at loggerheads with Labour unless they can reach agreement on the Maori seats which looks unlikely at present.

And the lower income &quot;middle NZers&quot; appear to be less frightened by National and more worried about Labour&#039;s social policies.

However, as some have already noted, National will score an own goal if there is a perception that they have simply carried on from where Labour left off and will drive through their own agenda regardless of the reaction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymouse &#8211; I agree entirely that Labour faces real challenges to redefine itself in an MMP environment.  For all Clark and Cullen&#8217;s perceived and admitted successes, their version of realpolitik has left Labour exposed in the short term.</p>
<p>The Greens will be obviously disappointed with their failure to significantly increase their vote and as you point out, much of their support is the educated, urban Pakeha.</p>
<p>The Maori Party will always be at loggerheads with Labour unless they can reach agreement on the Maori seats which looks unlikely at present.</p>
<p>And the lower income &#8220;middle NZers&#8221; appear to be less frightened by National and more worried about Labour&#8217;s social policies.</p>
<p>However, as some have already noted, National will score an own goal if there is a perception that they have simply carried on from where Labour left off and will drive through their own agenda regardless of the reaction.</p>
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		<title>By: Tigger</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109752</link>
		<dc:creator>Tigger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109752</guid>
		<description>And this self-congratulatory &#039;oh look, we let in a PI and and a Korean&#039; attitude from the Nats and their supporters like Kiwiblog feels very like a pat on the head...good ethnic minorities...we&#039;ll have you in our party but don&#039;t think we&#039;ll give you any real power.  

I guess I know too much about Sam here - a friend gave me a bunch of info about him that I can&#039;t really share online but basicially used the term Uncle Tom to describe him...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And this self-congratulatory &#8216;oh look, we let in a PI and and a Korean&#8217; attitude from the Nats and their supporters like Kiwiblog feels very like a pat on the head&#8230;good ethnic minorities&#8230;we&#8217;ll have you in our party but don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ll give you any real power.  </p>
<p>I guess I know too much about Sam here &#8211; a friend gave me a bunch of info about him that I can&#8217;t really share online but basicially used the term Uncle Tom to describe him&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109734</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109734</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s a bit too late for labour to stop being complacent.

National won the election based on large demographic changes on voting patterns in South Auckland, the immigrant vote generally, lower-income Pakeha, and (via the Maori party) in the Maori seats. 

gobsmacked: I think it very unlikely indeed that National&#039;s caucus will shrink significantly in 2011.  Labour increased in 2002, and even in 1987. The chance
of this being a one-term government is slim. 

I think it very likely indeed that Labour&#039;s caucus will continue to decline - partly for demographic reasons above.   Look at the post-election polls and you will see ACT&#039;s voting increasing (drawing some voters from National) while Labour is leaking voters in every direction - to National (lower income Pakeha); to the Greens (higher education Pakeha) and to the Maori party. 

National&#039;s lowest poll result - in 2002 - was clearly the result of a one-off flirtation with centre parties. Labour&#039;s loss is much more than that - it is systemic and demographic - and consequently, much more serious, even if the numbers look better overall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s a bit too late for labour to stop being complacent.</p>
<p>National won the election based on large demographic changes on voting patterns in South Auckland, the immigrant vote generally, lower-income Pakeha, and (via the Maori party) in the Maori seats. </p>
<p>gobsmacked: I think it very unlikely indeed that National&#8217;s caucus will shrink significantly in 2011.  Labour increased in 2002, and even in 1987. The chance<br />
of this being a one-term government is slim. </p>
<p>I think it very likely indeed that Labour&#8217;s caucus will continue to decline &#8211; partly for demographic reasons above.   Look at the post-election polls and you will see ACT&#8217;s voting increasing (drawing some voters from National) while Labour is leaking voters in every direction &#8211; to National (lower income Pakeha); to the Greens (higher education Pakeha) and to the Maori party. </p>
<p>National&#8217;s lowest poll result &#8211; in 2002 &#8211; was clearly the result of a one-off flirtation with centre parties. Labour&#8217;s loss is much more than that &#8211; it is systemic and demographic &#8211; and consequently, much more serious, even if the numbers look better overall.</p>
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		<title>By: Inventory2</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109732</link>
		<dc:creator>Inventory2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109732</guid>
		<description>Good post ayb - under Key&#039;s leadership, I&#039;d suggest that the National Party has taken a good look at itself, and come to the realisation that middle-aged, suit-wearing white men were not that representative of New Zealand. And to their credit, they&#039;ve done something tangible about it, in the space of two years. Labour on the other hand has had a belief that the immigrant vote would automatically be theirs, and has taken it for granted. And they have been gazzumped! And as Melissa Lee alluded yesterday, Labour must wear some fallout for their association with and support of Winston First.

Melissa Lee and Peseta Sam Lota Iiga are representative of the changing face of New Zealand. They are young, educated, urbane and ambitious. Both have enormous potential, as do many others of the class of 2008, from right across the House. It bodes well for the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post ayb &#8211; under Key&#8217;s leadership, I&#8217;d suggest that the National Party has taken a good look at itself, and come to the realisation that middle-aged, suit-wearing white men were not that representative of New Zealand. And to their credit, they&#8217;ve done something tangible about it, in the space of two years. Labour on the other hand has had a belief that the immigrant vote would automatically be theirs, and has taken it for granted. And they have been gazzumped! And as Melissa Lee alluded yesterday, Labour must wear some fallout for their association with and support of Winston First.</p>
<p>Melissa Lee and Peseta Sam Lota Iiga are representative of the changing face of New Zealand. They are young, educated, urbane and ambitious. Both have enormous potential, as do many others of the class of 2008, from right across the House. It bodes well for the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Tigger</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109715</link>
		<dc:creator>Tigger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109715</guid>
		<description>Having overheard Mr Lotu-Iiga agitate among Pacific voters in South Auckland on Labour &#039;social engineering&#039; (basically it was an anti-gay attack) I&#039;m unimpressed with his pretty words in a speech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having overheard Mr Lotu-Iiga agitate among Pacific voters in South Auckland on Labour &#8216;social engineering&#8217; (basically it was an anti-gay attack) I&#8217;m unimpressed with his pretty words in a speech.</p>
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		<title>By: all_your_base</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109712</link>
		<dc:creator>all_your_base</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109712</guid>
		<description>principessa - thanks for that, I&#039;m very happy to be corrected and delighted to hear it! I must have just missed it, good on them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>principessa &#8211; thanks for that, I&#8217;m very happy to be corrected and delighted to hear it! I must have just missed it, good on them!</p>
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		<title>By: gobsmacked</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109708</link>
		<dc:creator>gobsmacked</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109708</guid>
		<description>Tim, you forgot to mention your &quot;best friends&quot;.

Opposition to the Springbok Tour simply illustrates my point. Another anti-racist movement led by progressives, opposed by conservatives. (Feel free to prove me wrong by giving us the list of right-wing anti-Tour leaders). 

It has been that way throughout history. But again, thanks for following.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, you forgot to mention your &#8220;best friends&#8221;.</p>
<p>Opposition to the Springbok Tour simply illustrates my point. Another anti-racist movement led by progressives, opposed by conservatives. (Feel free to prove me wrong by giving us the list of right-wing anti-Tour leaders). </p>
<p>It has been that way throughout history. But again, thanks for following.</p>
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		<title>By: Praise for maiden speeches &#124; Kiwiblog</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109698</link>
		<dc:creator>Praise for maiden speeches &#124; Kiwiblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109698</guid>
		<description>[...] at The Standard has a very generous post on the maiden speeches of Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga and Melissa Lee. I&#039;ve just watched the first part of the Address in Reply [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at The Standard has a very generous post on the maiden speeches of Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga and Melissa Lee. I&#8217;ve just watched the first part of the Address in Reply [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ellis</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109692</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109692</guid>
		<description>Gobsmacked I marched against the Springbok Tour.  Did you? I&#039;ve lived in nine non-English speaking countries in the world.  But thank you for welcoming me out of my racist fold.  Very nice of you.

Can&#039;t say the same for Winston though.  Who was it who was in coalition with him last?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gobsmacked I marched against the Springbok Tour.  Did you? I&#8217;ve lived in nine non-English speaking countries in the world.  But thank you for welcoming me out of my racist fold.  Very nice of you.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t say the same for Winston though.  Who was it who was in coalition with him last?</p>
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		<title>By: The Optimist</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109688</link>
		<dc:creator>The Optimist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109688</guid>
		<description>Well it is early days for the new NZ govt. but good luck to them. It is a new era, and let&#039;s both 1) wish them well and 2) beat the crap out of them if they don&#039;t deliver.

Ethic-diversity is at best a diversion, more important what will they do?

Please can we see honest answers to questions in parliament? This is really important. Yes you can take sides, but when the enemy asks a question, understand that they represent a good chunk of us, and have the right to a proper answer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it is early days for the new NZ govt. but good luck to them. It is a new era, and let&#8217;s both 1) wish them well and 2) beat the crap out of them if they don&#8217;t deliver.</p>
<p>Ethic-diversity is at best a diversion, more important what will they do?</p>
<p>Please can we see honest answers to questions in parliament? This is really important. Yes you can take sides, but when the enemy asks a question, understand that they represent a good chunk of us, and have the right to a proper answer!</p>
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		<title>By: gobsmacked</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109679</link>
		<dc:creator>gobsmacked</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 10:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109679</guid>
		<description>Actually this is yet another example of Helen Clark changing the National Party. 

Three years ago National&#039;s policy on non-Maori minorities was:

1) &quot;My wife&#039;s from Singapore&quot;
2) &quot;Er ... did I mention my wife was from Singapore?&quot;

Now John Key has pushed National to build a more diverse caucus, reflecting Mainstream New Zealand (remember that lovely little label, Nats?). But the hard part for the new MPs will be keeping their seats, when the caucus inevitably shrinks in 2011.

But good to see some righties joining the anti-racism movement. As on so many issues, we lead, and you&#039;re always very welcome to follow, once the polls say it&#039;s safe to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually this is yet another example of Helen Clark changing the National Party. </p>
<p>Three years ago National&#8217;s policy on non-Maori minorities was:</p>
<p>1) &#8220;My wife&#8217;s from Singapore&#8221;<br />
2) &#8220;Er &#8230; did I mention my wife was from Singapore?&#8221;</p>
<p>Now John Key has pushed National to build a more diverse caucus, reflecting Mainstream New Zealand (remember that lovely little label, Nats?). But the hard part for the new MPs will be keeping their seats, when the caucus inevitably shrinks in 2011.</p>
<p>But good to see some righties joining the anti-racism movement. As on so many issues, we lead, and you&#8217;re always very welcome to follow, once the polls say it&#8217;s safe to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/courting-the-ethnic-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-109659</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 09:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6299#comment-109659</guid>
		<description>Rex this has long been my personal bugbear with our parliamentary system. I think MMP has improved things a little but there is still so much emphasis on party rather than ideas.

ps using &quot;insert&quot; in a sentence with &quot;David Benson-Pope&quot; is already joke enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rex this has long been my personal bugbear with our parliamentary system. I think MMP has improved things a little but there is still so much emphasis on party rather than ideas.</p>
<p>ps using &#8220;insert&#8221; in a sentence with &#8220;David Benson-Pope&#8221; is already joke enough.</p>
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