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Curiosity – 5:30pm

Written By: - Date published: 3:40 pm, August 6th, 2012 - 106 comments
Categories: International, science - Tags: , , ,

At around 5:30pm this evening Curiosity will either touch down safely on Mars, or make (another) expensive smudge on the surface. Various links below – tune in. Good luck Curiosity…

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/participate/

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/index.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/08/120805-nasa-tv-mars-landing-rover-curiosity-science-how-watch-see/

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/370520/20120805/nasa-mars-landing-curiosity-live-stream-watch.htm

106 comments on “Curiosity – 5:30pm”

  1. Draco T Bastard 1

    I find it good that enthusiasm for space exploration seems to be increasing again after the doldrums it’s been in for the last couple of decades.

    Or it’s that the MSM are feeding us this to cover the lack of news coverage that they actually do.

  2. Kotahi Tāne Huna 2

    A “sky crane”????

    Top marks for imagination.

    • r0b 2.1

      It’s a clever idea. Even cleverer if it works.

      • lprent 2.1.1

        Yeah – half a million lines of code for the landing sequence running on electronics and hardware that has been frozen and then carefully warmed up in circumstances that’d be nigh well impossible to reproduce in test scenarios. Ummm….

        Mind you if it all works, then it will be a stunning achievement. Probably far more than most people will realize…

        • r0b 2.1.1.1

          I really feel for the programmers and mission controllers. One shot, impossible to test, all the blame if it fails, no attention if it succeeds.

          Ahh but if it does succeed, how cool is that!

          • Tiger Mountain 2.1.1.1.1

            In our cold uncaring quantum universe this type of project does cheer one up. One of the few reasons for having a long life, to see how some of it turns out. Peter Higgs would have been grinning for days.

          • Pascal's bookie 2.1.1.1.2

            And waiting 14 minutes, which is an astoundingly short time really, but Laaaaaaagg.

          • lprent 2.1.1.1.3

            Was kind of amusing watching the various teams looking VERY relieved as their part of the sequence worked.

            That was pretty damn amazing. I was somewhat freaked this morning reviewing the landing sequence…

  3. Awesome.

    I nearly cried during the live stream from CERN when the Higgs was announced so if this succeeds I am imagine I’ll get weepy…..yes, I am a real science geek. 

  4. King Kong 4

    I for one am against this.

    It is just a thinly disguised right wing imperial plot.

    Peacefull science mission today then heavilly armed at-at walkers decimating the locals tommorow.

    This is the thin end of the wedge I tell you.

  5. shorts 5

    as an unemployed father of four – where does one sign up for work on an at-at walker?

  6. joe90 6

    I’m watching the NASA stream.

    http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ustream.html?curiosity

    And a metafilter post with a bucket load of links relevant to Curiosity.

    http://www.metafilter.com/118584/Oh-man-look-at-those-cavemen-go

  7. Pascal's bookie 8

    Go the parachute.

  8. joe90 9

    http://twitter.com/MarsCuriosity

    Parachute deployed! Velocity 900 mph. Altitude 7 miles. 4 minutes to Mars!

  9. Pascal's bookie 11

    Touchdown confirmed. Continuuing to recieve telemetry. You magnificent bastards.

  10. Colonial Viper 12

    Wow a few peeps in that control room seemed pretty happy 😀

  11. Colonial Viper 13

    Its at moments like this you remember why the USA has been such a magnificent, great nation.

    • Tiger Mountain 13.1

      Ahem, and so was the USSR. Space is now another corporate opportunity. But great to be able to view this event regardless.

      • Colonial Viper 13.1.1

        NB Russia can still send men into orbit, the USA has lost that ability 😉

    • Te Reo Putake 13.2

      Yep, it’s a triumph of their free enterprise system, fer sure. Oh, wait … 😉
       
      Loved the old hippy looking dude, I think he only took the gig at NASA coz the Dead stopped touring.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.3

      We could do the same thing if we decided to invest in researching and producing stuff rather than concentrating on farming, house speculation and capital gains.

    • muzza 13.4

      Get some cold water on those hard ons fellas eh…

  12. It’s amazing what the Human imagination is capable of! Faaaan-bloody-tastic!! (played Jeff Wayne’s “War of the Worlds”)

    Now if only we can do something equally imaginative back home. with all our problems…

    Left our good wishes on the JPL Facebook site. http://www.facebook.com/NASAJPL

  13. bad12 17

    Yeah that a good one from Nasa, space the final frontier and all that, a total facination, some primitive echo from deep within me likens it to going home,

    And for the next amazing trick?, How bout tests show that there is liquid H2O in the Martian soil, the chemical composition of the soil and atmosphere is a known and thus the same conditions can be recreated as a sealed enviroment back here to test what plant life will grow in such conditions,

    Next machine down to the Mars surface an automated seed drill complete with seeds???…

  14. lostinsuburbia 18

    I understand that NASA’s next mission is to send a probe to the National Party headquarters to see if they can find intelligent life….

    • bad12 18.1

      Cross the fingers it aint old Lizard Eyes Nick Smith that gets the honor of probing, it’s a given that if that happened the result would be a finding of only primitive amoeba having been discovered…

    • prism 18.2

      lis 18
      😀

  15. weka 19

    At the risk of becoming a pariah here, how do you all reconcile this with the looming energy, climate, economic and environmental crises?

    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      You appreciate it all the more because we’re not going to be able to do much more than this, for much longer.

      By the way, the US Viking Program put a lander on Mars in 1976. You might notice that 35 years later, they’ve just achieved essentially the same thing, albeit with more up to date technology and a wider mission.

      • weka 19.1.1

        You appreciate it all the more because we’re not going to be able to do much more than this, for much longer.
         

        Understandable.

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      how do you all reconcile this with the looming [1] energy, [2] climate, [3] economic and [4] environmental crises?

      Easy:
      1.) Space program doesn’t use that much energy. Effective power down will save far more (of course, we’re not actually doing that yet but I’m sure we’ll get around to it).
      2.) While the initial launch would have produced some pollution most of it would have been water.
      3.) We’re not actually having an economic crisis yet – we’re having a financial crisis.
      4.) This is a bit more of a concern considering the destructive mining techniques used to get the resources to actually build the spaceship.

      • weka 19.2.1

        1) did you include all energy costs eg manufacture, running costs of infrastructure etc?
         
        2) again, any cc related pollution audit would need to take into account total outputs, not just launch.
         
        3) point taken but I did say ‘looming’
         
        4) I was more thinking of the money/time/energy/scientific development being better spent elsewhere.

        • Draco T Bastard 19.2.1.1

          1.) Most of the infrastructure is in place and mostly used for other stuff. The space program would be a small diversion of that existing energy use.
          2.) See 1.)
          3.) I’m reasonably certain that even after the economic crisis hits we’ll still be able to afford a space program.
          4.) You may not have noticed but a hell of a lot of information about the climate comes from NASA. In fact, if it wasn’t for the space program we probably wouldn’t know as much as we do. A ‘space program’ covers a hell of a lot more than just a few space ships which is why I think we (NZ) need one with at least $1b/year government funding.

          • TheContrarian 19.2.1.1.1

            “You may not have noticed but a hell of a lot of information about the climate comes from NASA. In fact, if it wasn’t for the space program we probably wouldn’t know as much as we do. A ‘space program’ covers a hell of a lot more than just a few space ships which is why I think we (NZ) need one with at least $1b/year government funding.”

            This one rover mission cost over 3b NZD. Plus we have to build it, train people, house everyone, feed everyone, educate everyone, mine everything, provide everything for everyone from our own resources (this is of course what Draco has suggested NZ should do)

            You can’t have it all, Draco.

            • McFlock 19.2.1.1.1.1

              True.
              Let’s regulate the finance companies better so they don’t have to be bailed out. That’d sort us for most of the costs.
              Increase income tax levels to be more in line with Aus, an FTT and a CGT would fund the needed social services expenditure.
                   
              Hell, we can have it all – except for growing inequality and financial traders who have minimal oversight. Those we will have to drop, sadly. 

            • Draco T Bastard 19.2.1.1.1.2

              This one rover mission cost over 3b NZD.

              And took how many years to develop?

              You can’t have it all

              Yes, actually, we can. We presently produce more food than we can eat using a small fraction of the population. Same goes for housing, training and mining. Thing is, if we actually limited our economy to provide only that which we need as far as those essentials go we could actually have a hell of a lot more than we do now as we wouldn’t be wasting so much of our economy producing cheap food to buy expensive toys. Back 30 years ago when we actually had a major manufacturing sector the service sector made up only about 5% to 10% of the economy, now it makes up about 30% which really is a huge waste of resources. Do more stuff, be richer and all we have to do is sacrifice McDs. I think we can live with that.

              • weka

                We presently produce more food than we can eat using a small fraction of the population.
                 

                But only because we’re strip mining the fertility from the soil that was built up over millennia. It ain’t going to last. Wanting to run a space program when we are likely to struggle to feed ourselves some time this century is a very strange idea. But even if that weren’t true, there are still better things to spend our money/time/energy on.
                 
                 

                • Weka, I think you may find that the space programme spends only a fraction on the most colossal waste of time, money, and energy in human history; the arms trade.

                  At least with the space programme, we’re furthering the boundaries of our collective knowledge.

                  With the arms trade, we’re creating novel ways to slaughter each other.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  But only because we’re strip mining the fertility from the soil that was built up over millennia.

                  There’s a solution to that, one that’s been known for centuries:

                  1.) Only produce enough food for us so we’re no longer strip mining the nutrients
                  2.) Once we’ve finished with the produce we treat it and then return it to the soil using suitable field rotation so that the earth can fully reintegrate the nutrients (no more need of artificial fertilisers)
                  3.) Make sure our population never goes above what the land can support

                  Throw in renewable power generation to run the electric tractors and we still only use a small fraction of the population to feed ourselves. Besides, farming has always resulted in lots of people with nothing to do. It’s how civilisation developed, how the sciences came to be understood etc etc so even if we were back to the same productivity that the Romans had 2000 years ago (which isn’t going to happen) we’d still be able to support a space program.

                  But even if that weren’t true, there are still better things to spend our money/time/energy on.

                  You let people work where their interests lie and some people are going to want to do space. Probably several thousand in fact.

                  • weka

                    “There’s a solution to that, one that’s been known for centuries:”
                     
                    But not one that’s practiced on land that’s already been stripped mined (and they didn’t use electric tractors, for very good reasons). I understand what sustainable agriculture is, and I agree that stopping exporting food is crucial whatever we do next.
                     
                    However, see if you can produce one reputable source that shows NZ’s capacity to produce food sustainably, what the population would be, and how we would manage all our other needs within an acceptable footprint. AFAIK that work hasn’t been done yet.
                     

                    You let people work where their interests lie and some people are going to want to do space.
                     

                    At the moment, many want to make shit loads of money from growing and exporting industrial milk. Many also want to eat at McDs.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Unfortunately, the country can’t and won’t stop exporting food unless we want to cease buying items and energy from overseas.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      AFAIK that work hasn’t been done yet.

                      No it hasn’t and so it needs to be done. The fact that it hasn’t been done isn’t an argument against the basic premise.

                      At the moment, many want to make shit loads of money from growing and exporting industrial milk.

                      So? Regulation prevents over use of the land meaning that they can’t no matter how much they want to.

                      Many also want to eat at McDs.

                      But nobody wants to work there.

                      @Colonial Viper

                      Unfortunately, the country can’t and won’t stop exporting food unless we want to cease buying items and energy from overseas.

                      We’d need a transition period but the sooner we start it the sooner we finish it.

                    • weka

                      No it hasn’t and so it needs to be done. The fact that it hasn’t been done isn’t an argument against the basic premise.
                       

                      Er, yes it is. What you are proposing isn’t possible given peak oil, economics, the size of our population relative to land, the state of our agricultural sector and the fact that most of the population will have a very hard time getting its head around giving up their flat screen TVs (amongst many other things).
                      If we’re lucky we might successfully transition to a low energy society. Transitioning to sustainable food production will take time, and then we won’t have cheap oil to build the wind farms to power the electric tractors, let alone build spaceships.
                       

                      At the moment, many want to make shit loads of money from growing and exporting industrial milk.

                      So? Regulation prevents over use of the land meaning that they can’t no matter how much they want to.
                       

                      Right, but in this brave new world where people have accepted sustainability as a baseline, they’re willing to let the last of our precious metal resources be sent into space? Resources that will be needed by generations to come? I don’t think so.

                      Sorry, but none of this stacks up, not the economics, the resources, or the politics.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      And at the fundamentals, it’s actually the psychology which doesn’t stack up. The psyche of the modern, growth expecting, convenience seeking consumer is (very) badly adapted cope with what needs to be done over the next 20 years.

                    • weka

                      Yep.
                       

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      @CV
                      Well then, we need to change the psychological make up of society. We do that all the time.

                      @weka

                      Er, yes it is.

                      No it’s not.

                      What you are proposing isn’t possible given peak oil, economics, the size of our population relative to land, the state of our agricultural sector and the fact that most of the population will have a very hard time getting its head around giving up their flat screen TVs (amongst many other things).

                      Don’t need oil, economics is the distribution of scarce resources not the movement of money and we have the resources and agriculture needs to decline so as to protect the environment. Won’t be giving up flat screen TVs. They may not have two or more to a house but we can still have them. As I’ve been saying, we have the resources and the knowledge needed to make our own. Such knowledge also goes towards the space program. In fact, if it hadn’t been for the US space program we probably wouldn’t have them today.

                      Transitioning to sustainable food production will take time, and then we won’t have cheap oil to build the wind farms to power the electric tractors, let alone build spaceships.

                      Don’t need oil to do that. Sure, makes it easier but we don’t need it.

                      …they’re willing to let the last of our precious metal resources be sent into space?

                      Two things:
                      1.) We won’t be. Even at present rates of consumption it’s going to be centuries before we (NZ) even start look at running our metal resources dry. The biggest problem will be mining them without oil but there are ways around that to.
                      2.) There’s resources in space that we can start bringing back which don’t come with all that environmental damage that comes with mining on Earth.

                    • “They may not have two or more to a house but we can still have them. As I’ve been saying, we have the resources and the knowledge needed to make our own. Such knowledge also goes towards the space program. ”

                      Quite frankly that is delusional. Some of the materials involved, the precious metals, do not exist in NZ or, if the do, need to be extracted in such a manner as to strip mine large chunks of land for very small, an economical, amounts.

                      This has been pointed out to you several times.

                      “There’s resources in space that we can start bringing back which don’t come with all that environmental damage that comes with mining on Earth.”

                      We are decades away from that.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      This has been pointed out to you several times.

                      Really? I haven’t seen them so point them out to me.

                      BTW, I assume you mean rare earth metals rather than “precious metals”.

                      We are decades away from that.

                      So the earlier we start the better.

                    • Without trawling through the archives Draco you’ll remember the discussion you have with higherstandard (I believe it was) and myself about the manufacturing of surgical equipment in New Zealand. And I have also discussed with you the feasibility of this also re: New Zealand having little in the way of radioactive materials. Don’t play dumb.

                      “There’s resources in space that we can start bringing back which don’t come with all that environmental damage that comes with mining on Earth.”

                      We are decades away and no matter how soon we start we are still going to have to find our own rare metals first and construct, test and more than likely lose many probes before getting it right. Metals NZ doesn’t have without significant investment in mining

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Oh, that short spiel where I proved you wrong by linking to the official geo-data. Got it. IIRC, I even said that I supported building a research reactor for the medical supplies.

                      Metals NZ doesn’t have without significant investment in mining

                      And I’ve even said that I supported such mining. My biggest problem with most mining plans in NZ is that it ends up without NZ actually benefiting from it due to:
                      1.) It’s usually done by an offshore company that has the mining rights
                      2.) Which then sells the produce offshore for a huge profit usually in its raw format (little or no processing is actually done here)
                      3.) That huge profit is then also shipped offshore except for the minimal royalties we demand
                      4.) We then have to buy back the products produced from those resources at higher prices than what it would have cost to make them here

                      Private companies should not be benefiting from our resources (much better for us if the government did the mining) and raw resources should not be exported at all.

              • Indeed, Draco.

                On top of that, when we had our own manufacturing sector, we had low unemployment and few people on unemployment welfare.

                Now we have cheap showes from China – and a whopping huge social welfare bill with it. No wonder we can’t afford free tertiary education any more.

                So those “cheap” chinese shoes ain’t so cheap after all.

                Interestingly, Bernard Hickey said something about our non-productive service sector a few months back, He stated that having thousands of people working in service, retail, and other similar sectors was a drag on the economy because it wasn’t supporting a productive export sector…

              • bad12

                No please No, anything but macca’s, take Pizza-sh*t and Kentucky-turd, but please oh please leave us with our Macca’s…

  16. Kotahi Tāne Huna 20

    Yay! Amazing. Fantastic. Something for humans to be proud of.

  17. Adele 22

    Frankly, I am hoping that if there are Martians, they will tell humanity to keep the fuck off their planet.

    Until we learn to look after our own we should not be going anywhere near another planet.

  18. prism 23

    The graphic looks like parts of Blenheim in the dry summer. Why not spend the money frittered away on ‘nice to have’ science for rich kids and spend the money supplying watering systems that conserve water to poor countries? We don’t want to end up looking like Mars.

    The Sahara and such is similar with sand rolling ever on to make a good photo op of a dry area with great images of shadow and sand troughs and lines of people and camels in lonely stark isolation that’s almost as hostile as Mars.

    • joe90 23.1

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/12/senegal-great-green-wall

      Senegal is one of 11 countries in the Sahel region of Africa looking towards the same solution to the desertification problem: The Great Green Wall. The goal of the project is to plant a wall of trees, 4,300 miles long and 9 miles wide, across the African continent, from Senegal to Djibouti. African leaders hope the trees will trap the sands of the Sahara and halt the advance of the desert.

      P

    • weka 23.2

      That photo made me wince, because it’s similarity to places we’ve created 🙁 Glad the irony wasn’t lost on quite everyone prism.

    • Draco T Bastard 23.3

      Those poor countries are probably quite rich and are certainly quite capable of administering their own resources. Sure, help them with the knowledge they need to do that administration better but, other than that, leave them to it.

      • weka 23.3.1

        I think NZ has already demonstrated that its not capable of administering its own resources.

        • Colonial Viper 23.3.1.1

          Partly disagree here. NZ was one of the first jurisdictions in the world to electrify. We did extremely well with our natural resources and infrastructure planning between the 1930’s and the 1960’s. (Much credit goes to the MoW and its forerunners which like idiots we broke up and sold off to the private sector).

          During WWII our vertically integrated rail systems kept the country running. The railways ran coal mines, forests, foundries, design offices and engineering workshops, virtually everything it needed to keep going, under its own control and co-ordination.

          Muldoon showed some vision on the transport and energy side of the equation, too.

          We were once a powerful nation in our own right.

        • Draco T Bastard 23.3.1.2

          We can but not under free-market capitalism. Free-market capitalism actually makes it impossible to manage the economy.

  19. joe90 24

    Just four more years until Juno arrives.

    • prism 24.1

      Juno – great technology, great expenditure. Poor people and infrastructure on earth for non-scientists and non-technocrats. Squillions spent on technology – thousands spent on humans and caring for our environment.

      And technology’s use – the drone planes – robot murderers from the sky, the stealth plane a black Darth Vader so expensive, to spy undetected. Some good things in the mix, but what a brew.

      A constant turning away from people, soft objects – to technology producing hard objects. Really an art installation of man’s death wish. No wonder that women and babies have to struggle for consideration and respect in this world.

  20. Richard Christie 25

    Awesome, NASA rocks,
    A shame William Pickering is no longer here to enjoy the Jet Propulsion Lab’s continuing triumphs.

  21. Carol 26

    The space beyond earth, is an imaginary space for humans to exercise their mental exploration of what might have been, and what might be in the future.

    I enjoy space fiction – it is a fertile site for the imagination to roam, especially when it is visualised on screen with accompanying sound effects.

    I rarely get excited by actual space exploration – I think it’s appeal to many is via imagination, but, for me, fiction does it better.

    It’ll be interesting if something is learned about the existence of life in the universe. But I still can’t get that excited about so much effort (and resources) for relatively limited gain.

    • lprent 26.1

      I’m far more interested in the geology than I am in the search for life. While I suspect that Mars did in fact have life from several billion years or more ago, I also suspect that its traces are going to be pretty hard to locate from the current surface.

      Like most of the early life (and the vast majority of current life) on earth most of the biomatter would have been and maybe still is well underground and away from the rather toxic environment on the surface.

      However the geology of the planet surface that hasn’t had the massive amount of rework that earth’s surface has had will in all liklihood reveal a lot about things that we simply can’t see on earth, but which are important to us now. In particular the interactions between atmosphere and rock are going to be massively easier to see on mars than they are on earth

  22. sophie 27

    Hope there are no cats on Mars.

  23. TT 28

    … meanwhile, as the USA spends billions on the pissing contest known as the space race, millions starve here on earth. Priorities?

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1

      If it were a case of “either the space race or an end to starvation” you’d have a point, but it isn’t. The fact is that historically, there has been enough food to go around. It wasn’t NASA preventing it reaching the mouths that needed it, it was politics and war.

      NASA employees are also at the cutting edge of Climatology, which warns of the threat of genuine (as opposed to politically driven) future food shortages.

      We could all learn something from NASA’s priorities.

      • weka 28.1.1

        Climate isn’t really the issue though either. Humans can grow food in a wide range of climates. The problem is whether we can grow food sustainably and without cheap oil. In that sense the criticism of space exploration stands. We are wasting much, including critical time, by pursuing mars instead of looking at crucial issues like loss of soil.
         
        Is there a reason why NASA can’t study climate without going into space?
         

        • Draco T Bastard 28.1.1.1

          Yes, they need the satellites and being able to study the Martian climate helps to understand ours.

          • weka 28.1.1.1.1

            But it’s not necessary to go to Mars to understand our own climate.

            • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1.1.1.1.1

              Perhaps not, but it is inspiring, and will yield unexpected knowledge, and both of those things are “necessary”.

            • Draco T Bastard 28.1.1.1.1.2

              But it is necessary to go into space and so, while we’re there, we may as well go to Mars and get the extra data.

              • prism

                DTB
                Jokey Hen can use that argument. It is necessary for me to travel to Hawaii and while I’m in that part of the world I can look around and research and find out what’s going on under the surface and bring this life-giving knowledge back to NZ to aid us all. What a sweet excuse that sounds.

        • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1.1.2

          “Humans can grow food in a wide range of climates.”

          A true statement. No-one has yet worked out how to get high crop yields from deserts.

          • weka 28.1.1.2.1

            We don’t need high yield crops, unless we want to run food production as commodities through a capitalist model. What we need is produce food that people eat and sustains them, and that can be done in a desert. Humans have been living in deserts for a very long time.
             
             
             

            • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1.1.2.1.1

              Well sure, apart from the fact that this scenario involves mass starvation before the new equilibrium is reached. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

              • weka

                You seem to think we have a choice about that. Which is ironic, given I am the one arguing for better use of the resources we have eg improving food security rather than doing space exploration.
                 
                The way we feed the world now is unsustainable. Even if peak oil weren’t in the picture we would be facing some serious problems from the loss of topsoil which is a direct result of modern farming practices (other cultures have lost arable land through farming practices too but they tend to do it over a much long time period and with less population pressure). We can’t keep doing what we are doing and increase population and go to space. 
                 
                We have a window of opportunity here, one that is rapidly shrinking. I understand the excitement and inspiration people feel about the mars landing. I just don’t see how that stacks up against the future we are facing. Yes we need inspiration, but only crazy people value that over survival needs.
                 
                http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/feb/14/science.environment
                 
                Note the date on that article. It’s not like we haven’t been warned.

                • Kotahi Tāne Huna

                  I am under no illusions about “choice”. I think the “window of opportunity” has closed. Adaptation is now far more important than mitigation, and with that in mind, NASA will have a very important role to play.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Which is ironic, given I am the one arguing for better use of the resources we have eg improving food security rather than doing space exploration.

                  The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Farming allows the population to be fed at a sustainable level using only a small fraction of the population which leaves people and resources available to do other things such as space exploration.

                  The big problem with food security is over population and increasing food production actually increases the over population. This is why it’s important that we find out just what the carrying capacity of the Earth and individual nations is and then communicate that to the individuals that make up those nations with the information about how to limit population growth (contraception, abortion etc). But even doing that would still leave enough resources to support a space program.

                  • prism

                    DTB
                    Space program – an expensive way for men to get far away from mundane tasks of being with family, doing the dishes and mowing the lawn.

            • prism 28.1.1.2.1.2

              weka
              I guess you have come across these names that have stayed in my memory as inspiring and achieving people in environmental matters.
              – Richard St Barbe Baker is a name to think of and here is link of one project – http://www.menofthetrees.com.au/
              In his retirement he lived in NZ till his death I think.

              Also – Wendy Campbell-Purdie is a name that should be known.
              http://www.primitivism.com/tree-of-life.htm
              She worked on the fringe of a desert planting trees that could handle the conditions and were strong growers and then crops under the shade of their canopies so there was less evaporation. She was very successful to get a working system established in a male-oriented area and rather corrupt political system.

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  • Labour and Greens sign historic agreement to change the Government
    The Labour Party and the Green Party have announced today they have signed an historic agreement to work cooperatively to change the Government. The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the parties commits them to working cooperatively to change the Government… ...
    4 hours ago
  • Budget ignores vital role of quality ECE
    Last night I watched a fascinating programme about the Otago University 45 year study of 1000 New Zealanders. It concluded that there are ways to intervene and support people who are at risk of becoming violent. One of the key… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 day ago
  • More ice for Radio NZ in Budget
    Budget 2016 once again left our only public broadcaster, Radio NZ (RNZ), worse off. After eight years of funding freezes, you have to wonder if RNZ is being iced-out for ideological reasons. I believe public broadcasting is an important cornerstone… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    1 day ago
  • Fisheries inquiry must be widened to include Trident
    The Government must widen its inquiry into the Ministry for Primary Industries to include its awarding of a company owned by Sanford and Moana Pacific Fisheries to monitor commercial fishing vessels, Labour’s Fisheries spokesperson Rino Tirikatene says. The Ministry for… ...
    1 day ago
  • Government spend up on state house sell off
    The Government has spent $28.9 million and has 129 officials working on its misguided state house sell-off, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.  “This is a scandalous waste of taxpayers’ money on a policy that won’t deliver a single extra… ...
    2 days ago
  • Housing crisis has huge impact on education
    The National Government’s failure to get on top of the housing crisis is having a major impact on the quality of education a lot of school kids are getting, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says.  “There are thousands of kids… ...
    2 days ago
  • Minister celebrates while arts organisations face cuts
    Maggie Barry was full of self-congratulations for her small arts announcement in the budget, ignoring the pain that a large number of organisations are facing due to her inaction, says Arts, Culture, Heritage spokesperson Jacinda Ardern.  “The Budget delivered a… ...
    2 days ago
  • Regions miss out again in Joyce’s Koru Lounge Fund
      The regions have missed out yet again with Steven Joyce offering just $10m a year for key regional development projects while trumpeting a bunch of re-heated announcements, says Labour’s Economic Development spokesperson David Clark. “The dairy downturn has put… ...
    3 days ago
  • Children’s Commissioner misses out in Budget
      The Office of the Children’s Commissioner has missed out on a much needed boost in this year’s Budget, meaning they will be forced to continue their reduced monitoring role of CYFs residences, says Labour’s spokesperson for Children Jacinda Ardern. … ...
    3 days ago
  • Communities miss out in Budget
    Budget 2017 has left community and NGO providers feeling exposed about the services they provide to vulnerable families especially in smaller towns and communities, says Labour’s Whānau Ora Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta. “Approximately $40m will go into Whānau Ora to work… ...
    4 days ago
  • Budget2016: Two Worlds
    Sometimes I feel as if I live in two worlds. The world created by the National Government where everything is great and they’re doing a great job and the world as seen through the eyes of child advocates, community workers,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    4 days ago
  • Parekura would be proud – MTS gets boost
    The Labour Party is ecstatic that the Māori Party have shown support for one of Labour’s proudest policies, says Labour’s Māori Broadcasting Spokesperson Peeni Henare.  “The Māori Television Service was launched in 2004 by the late Hon Parekura Horomia. ...
    4 days ago
  • Māori housing in state of emergency
    The Government needs to declare a state of emergency for Māori Housing, says Labour’s Māori Development spokesperson and Te Tai Tokerau MP Kelvin Davis. “The extra $3 million a year Māori Housing Network fund will not scratch the surface in… ...
    4 days ago
  • State house sell off in disarray after provider pulls out
     The Government should cancel its planned sell-off of state houses after the second big community housing provider pulled out leaving the process in disarray, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.  “It is time for the Government to back away from… ...
    4 days ago
  • Nothing in Budget to help police to solve crime
    The Police Minister has failed to make communities safer with virtually no new money in yesterday’s Budget for police to address the appalling burglary resolution rates, says Labour’s Police spokesperson Stuart Nash.  “It’s a disgrace there’s no money or aspiration… ...
    4 days ago
  • Blog – Budget 2016: What about ordinary working people?
    Ordinary working New Zealanders don’t fare very well from this Budget. Setting aside the spin from the Government, it contains a lot to be concerned about and a fudging of the numbers. Green Party workplace relations spokesperson Denise Roche For… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    4 days ago
  • Real wages go backwards for next two years
    New Zealanders’ real wages will fall for the next two years as the cost of living outpaces forecast pay rises, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “New Zealanders have been doing it tough for far too long. They expect… ...
    4 days ago
  • The Attack on Public Education – by a thousand cuts
    Budget 2016 is another step towards the free public education system being a memory from the past. The Budget freezes the operations grant for schools and does not sufficiently cover the real increase in numbers of students entering the education system.… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    4 days ago
  • The Attack on Public Education – by a thousand cuts
    Budget 2016 is another step towards the free public education system being a memory from the past. The Budget freezes the operations grant for schools and does not sufficiently cover the real increase in numbers of students entering the education system.… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    4 days ago
  • The give with one hand – take with the other Budget
    The Minister of Health has pumped out media releases to 20 District Health Boards heralding increases in funding for their regions, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. “But when you add population growth and inflation into the figures you get… ...
    4 days ago
  • Budget offers no hope of fixing housing crisis
    The Budget’s underwhelming housing measures will give New Zealanders no hope that National is capable of fixing the housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “There isn’t a scrap of an idea to help desperate young Kiwi families into… ...
    5 days ago
  • How the budget fails new New Zealanders
    Greens co-leader James Shaw was absolutely correct to say the 2016 budget is just papering over the cracks. There’s nothing in this budget to increase wages, address inequal pay for carers or deal with the shocking pay rates and employment… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    5 days ago
  • Parents will pay more as school budgets frozen
    Parents will pay more for their kids’ education as a result of this year’s Budget after the Government froze operational funding for schools, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “This means schools are effectively going backwards. They will need to… ...
    5 days ago
  • Sticking Plaster Budget fails the test
    Bill English’s penultimate Budget fails to tackle the structural challenges facing the economy – a housing crisis, rising unemployment, underfunded health and creaking infrastructure, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “This Budget applies a sticking plaster to a compound fracture.… ...
    5 days ago
  • John Key fails middle New Zealand with no fix for housing crisis, more underfunding of health
    Middle New Zealand has again missed out in this year’s Budget with not a single fix for the housing crisis, and health and education woefully underfunded again, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “This Budget is just a patchwork… ...
    5 days ago
  • Labour Bill would back Kiwi jobs
    The Government’s $40 billion of buying power would go towards backing Kiwi businesses and jobs under a Labour Member’s Bill which will be debated by Parliament, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “My Bill – which was pulled from… ...
    5 days ago
  • Julie Anne Genter: My Budget 2016 wish is fairness
    When my parents first visited me in Auckland ten years ago, they remarked on how there were no homeless people on the streets. Coming from Los Angeles, they were used to seeing the impacts of horrendous inequality and a lack… ...
    GreensBy Julie Anne Genter
    5 days ago
  • Steffan Browning: Pesticide reduction and Organic Growth Strategy in Budget 2016
    Pesticide reduction The Budget is an opportunity for the Government to launch a pesticide reduction strategy that multiplies the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) and the Ministry for Primary Industries’ capacity to reassess pesticides and other toxins.  The Agricultural Compounds and… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning
    5 days ago
  • Steffan Browning: Pesticide reduction and Organic Growth Strategy in Budget 2016
    Pesticide reduction The Budget is an opportunity for the Government to launch a pesticide reduction strategy that multiplies the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) and the Ministry for Primary Industries’ capacity to reassess pesticides and other toxins.  The Agricultural Compounds and… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning
    5 days ago
  • Minister won’t fess up on wrong figures
    The Minister of Health was caught out telling porkies in Parliament today when he was asked about the number of people getting access to mental health and addiction services, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. ...
    6 days ago
  • Budget 2016 and our LGBTQI communities
    LGBTI people make up about a tenth of our population, and our communities face a unique set of needs and challenges. These challenges are caused or exacerbated by discrimination, invisibility and barriers to appropriate support. We have a long way… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    6 days ago
  • Budget 2016 and our LGBTQI communities
    LGBTI people make up about a tenth of our population, and our communities face a unique set of needs and challenges. These challenges are caused or exacerbated by discrimination, invisibility and barriers to appropriate support. We have a long way… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    6 days ago
  • Scrambled announcement policy on the hoof
    Paula Bennett’s scrambled desperate announcement that she will pay homeless people to move to the regions is just the latest evidence of the disarray this Government’s housing policy is in, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “This is policy… ...
    6 days ago
  • Police Minister admits resolution rates fall short of expectation
    Police Minister Judith Collins has admitted in Parliament current burglary resolution rates are not meeting the expectations of our communities, says Labour’s Police spokesman Stuart Nash “Out of 284 police stations in New Zealand in 2015, 24 stations recorded zero… ...
    6 days ago
  • Mojo Mathers: A better deal for animals in Budget 2016
    Currently we are failing animals in NZ. On the face of it farmed and domestic animals in this country have strong legal protection from abuse, cruelty and neglect. In reality it seems that only the very worst, most extreme cases… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers
    6 days ago
  • Metiria Turei: What we need from Budget 2016
    Every family deserves a warm decent home.  Everyone believes that. This housing crisis is just the latest consequence of a Government who puts the interests of the few wealthy people above the needs of NZ families.  Families are doing it… ...
    GreensBy Metiria Turei
    6 days ago
  • Dairy exports fall of 11%: Budget action on diversification needed
    Dairy exports have fallen 11 per cent compared to this time last year, a fall of almost $1.5b, showing the Government must take clear action on diversifying the economy in tomorrow’s Budget, says Labour’s Trade and Export Growth spokesperson David… ...
    6 days ago
  • Investors driving families out of homes in South and West Auckland
    Investors cashing in on skyrocketing Auckland house prices are driving families out of homes in South and West Auckland and causing homeownership rates in some of our poorest suburbs to plummet, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “New analysis shows… ...
    6 days ago
  • Budget must deliver on paid parental leave
    Budget 2016 must deliver 26 weeks paid parental leave by April 2018 – anything less will be short-changing families, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “My Bill which is before Parliament this afternoon has majority support and does just that. I… ...
    6 days ago
  • Key’s “brain fart” on tax cuts news to English
    John Key didn’t tell his own Finance Minister he was about to go on radio and announce he wanted $3b of tax cuts, just days after Bill English ruled them out, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “In Parliament today… ...
    1 week ago
  • What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 – A better start for our tamariki
    Ensuring the best start for our tamariki is a priority for me in everything I do. And so in Budget 2016, my first budget as an MP, I looking for the Government to make a real investment in the wellbeing… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    1 week ago
  • What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 – A better start for our tamariki
    Ensuring the best start for our tamariki is a priority for me in everything I do. And so in Budget 2016, my first budget as an MP, I looking for the Government to make a real investment in the wellbeing… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    1 week ago
  • Denise Roche: What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 Pt II
    Aotearoa’s new New Zealanders,  come to our country in vulnerable position: – often away from the culture, communities and families they know, sometimes in neighbourhoods without familiar faces and often encountering barriers to employment. With net migration at 50,000+ a… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Equal Pay and Budget 2016
    The last few years we’ve seen equal pay for women flagged as an undefined risk in the budget. This year we should expect to see this, as well as budgeted money to deliver equal pay to caregivers and funding for,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • Equal Pay and Budget 2016
    The last few years we’ve seen equal pay for women flagged as an undefined risk in the budget. This year we should expect to see this, as well as budgeted money to deliver equal pay to caregivers and funding for,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • A great Budget would
    A great Budget would embrace the challenge of our polluted rivers and move the money away from justifying the status quo water rules into cleaning up waterways. A great Budget would take the Ministry for the Environment freshwater budget and… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 week ago
  • Budget building materials policy backfires
    On the eve of this year’s Budget official figures show Nick Smith’s Budget 2014 centrepiece to reduce the cost of building materials has backfired, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment officials have spent the… ...
    1 week ago
  • Smarter, Better, Cleaner, Stronger
    This Thursday Bill English will deliver his eighth Budget. Will it continue the trend of previous National budgets, making tertiary education less affordable, putting only token funds into innovation, and subsidising polluters? Budgets aren’t what they used to be. Once… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    1 week ago
  • Govt must come clean on tax cuts in Budget
    National is making a mockery of the Budget process by dangling the promise of tax cuts but failing to include them in the Budget, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “National’s tax cut promises have turned into a farce. One… ...
    1 week ago
  • Grant Robertson Pre-Budget Speech
    Today I want to talk about success. As we know success can come in many different forms, from the fact you all made it here at such an early hour on a Monday, for which I am very grateful, to… ...
    1 week ago

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