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Curiosity – 5:30pm

Written By: - Date published: 3:40 pm, August 6th, 2012 - 106 comments
Categories: International, science - Tags: , , ,

At around 5:30pm this evening Curiosity will either touch down safely on Mars, or make (another) expensive smudge on the surface. Various links below – tune in. Good luck Curiosity…

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/participate/

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/index.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/08/120805-nasa-tv-mars-landing-rover-curiosity-science-how-watch-see/

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/370520/20120805/nasa-mars-landing-curiosity-live-stream-watch.htm

106 comments on “Curiosity – 5:30pm”

  1. Draco T Bastard 1

    I find it good that enthusiasm for space exploration seems to be increasing again after the doldrums it’s been in for the last couple of decades.

    Or it’s that the MSM are feeding us this to cover the lack of news coverage that they actually do.

  2. Kotahi Tāne Huna 2

    A “sky crane”????

    Top marks for imagination.

    • r0b 2.1

      It’s a clever idea. Even cleverer if it works.

      • lprent 2.1.1

        Yeah – half a million lines of code for the landing sequence running on electronics and hardware that has been frozen and then carefully warmed up in circumstances that’d be nigh well impossible to reproduce in test scenarios. Ummm….

        Mind you if it all works, then it will be a stunning achievement. Probably far more than most people will realize…

        • r0b 2.1.1.1

          I really feel for the programmers and mission controllers. One shot, impossible to test, all the blame if it fails, no attention if it succeeds.

          Ahh but if it does succeed, how cool is that!

          • Tiger Mountain 2.1.1.1.1

            In our cold uncaring quantum universe this type of project does cheer one up. One of the few reasons for having a long life, to see how some of it turns out. Peter Higgs would have been grinning for days.

          • Pascal's bookie 2.1.1.1.2

            And waiting 14 minutes, which is an astoundingly short time really, but Laaaaaaagg.

          • lprent 2.1.1.1.3

            Was kind of amusing watching the various teams looking VERY relieved as their part of the sequence worked.

            That was pretty damn amazing. I was somewhat freaked this morning reviewing the landing sequence…

  3. Awesome.

    I nearly cried during the live stream from CERN when the Higgs was announced so if this succeeds I am imagine I’ll get weepy…..yes, I am a real science geek. 

  4. King Kong 4

    I for one am against this.

    It is just a thinly disguised right wing imperial plot.

    Peacefull science mission today then heavilly armed at-at walkers decimating the locals tommorow.

    This is the thin end of the wedge I tell you.

  5. shorts 5

    as an unemployed father of four – where does one sign up for work on an at-at walker?

  6. joe90 6

    I’m watching the NASA stream.

    http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ustream.html?curiosity

    And a metafilter post with a bucket load of links relevant to Curiosity.

    http://www.metafilter.com/118584/Oh-man-look-at-those-cavemen-go

  7. Pascal's bookie 8

    Go the parachute.

  8. joe90 9

    http://twitter.com/MarsCuriosity

    Parachute deployed! Velocity 900 mph. Altitude 7 miles. 4 minutes to Mars!

  9. Pascal's bookie 11

    Touchdown confirmed. Continuuing to recieve telemetry. You magnificent bastards.

  10. Colonial Viper 12

    Wow a few peeps in that control room seemed pretty happy 😀

  11. Colonial Viper 13

    Its at moments like this you remember why the USA has been such a magnificent, great nation.

    • Tiger Mountain 13.1

      Ahem, and so was the USSR. Space is now another corporate opportunity. But great to be able to view this event regardless.

      • Colonial Viper 13.1.1

        NB Russia can still send men into orbit, the USA has lost that ability 😉

    • Te Reo Putake 13.2

      Yep, it’s a triumph of their free enterprise system, fer sure. Oh, wait … 😉
       
      Loved the old hippy looking dude, I think he only took the gig at NASA coz the Dead stopped touring.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.3

      We could do the same thing if we decided to invest in researching and producing stuff rather than concentrating on farming, house speculation and capital gains.

    • muzza 13.4

      Get some cold water on those hard ons fellas eh…

  12. It’s amazing what the Human imagination is capable of! Faaaan-bloody-tastic!! (played Jeff Wayne’s “War of the Worlds”)

    Now if only we can do something equally imaginative back home. with all our problems…

    Left our good wishes on the JPL Facebook site. http://www.facebook.com/NASAJPL

  13. bad12 17

    Yeah that a good one from Nasa, space the final frontier and all that, a total facination, some primitive echo from deep within me likens it to going home,

    And for the next amazing trick?, How bout tests show that there is liquid H2O in the Martian soil, the chemical composition of the soil and atmosphere is a known and thus the same conditions can be recreated as a sealed enviroment back here to test what plant life will grow in such conditions,

    Next machine down to the Mars surface an automated seed drill complete with seeds???…

  14. lostinsuburbia 18

    I understand that NASA’s next mission is to send a probe to the National Party headquarters to see if they can find intelligent life….

    • bad12 18.1

      Cross the fingers it aint old Lizard Eyes Nick Smith that gets the honor of probing, it’s a given that if that happened the result would be a finding of only primitive amoeba having been discovered…

    • prism 18.2

      lis 18
      😀

  15. weka 19

    At the risk of becoming a pariah here, how do you all reconcile this with the looming energy, climate, economic and environmental crises?

    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      You appreciate it all the more because we’re not going to be able to do much more than this, for much longer.

      By the way, the US Viking Program put a lander on Mars in 1976. You might notice that 35 years later, they’ve just achieved essentially the same thing, albeit with more up to date technology and a wider mission.

      • weka 19.1.1

        You appreciate it all the more because we’re not going to be able to do much more than this, for much longer.
         

        Understandable.

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      how do you all reconcile this with the looming [1] energy, [2] climate, [3] economic and [4] environmental crises?

      Easy:
      1.) Space program doesn’t use that much energy. Effective power down will save far more (of course, we’re not actually doing that yet but I’m sure we’ll get around to it).
      2.) While the initial launch would have produced some pollution most of it would have been water.
      3.) We’re not actually having an economic crisis yet – we’re having a financial crisis.
      4.) This is a bit more of a concern considering the destructive mining techniques used to get the resources to actually build the spaceship.

      • weka 19.2.1

        1) did you include all energy costs eg manufacture, running costs of infrastructure etc?
         
        2) again, any cc related pollution audit would need to take into account total outputs, not just launch.
         
        3) point taken but I did say ‘looming’
         
        4) I was more thinking of the money/time/energy/scientific development being better spent elsewhere.

        • Draco T Bastard 19.2.1.1

          1.) Most of the infrastructure is in place and mostly used for other stuff. The space program would be a small diversion of that existing energy use.
          2.) See 1.)
          3.) I’m reasonably certain that even after the economic crisis hits we’ll still be able to afford a space program.
          4.) You may not have noticed but a hell of a lot of information about the climate comes from NASA. In fact, if it wasn’t for the space program we probably wouldn’t know as much as we do. A ‘space program’ covers a hell of a lot more than just a few space ships which is why I think we (NZ) need one with at least $1b/year government funding.

          • TheContrarian 19.2.1.1.1

            “You may not have noticed but a hell of a lot of information about the climate comes from NASA. In fact, if it wasn’t for the space program we probably wouldn’t know as much as we do. A ‘space program’ covers a hell of a lot more than just a few space ships which is why I think we (NZ) need one with at least $1b/year government funding.”

            This one rover mission cost over 3b NZD. Plus we have to build it, train people, house everyone, feed everyone, educate everyone, mine everything, provide everything for everyone from our own resources (this is of course what Draco has suggested NZ should do)

            You can’t have it all, Draco.

            • McFlock 19.2.1.1.1.1

              True.
              Let’s regulate the finance companies better so they don’t have to be bailed out. That’d sort us for most of the costs.
              Increase income tax levels to be more in line with Aus, an FTT and a CGT would fund the needed social services expenditure.
                   
              Hell, we can have it all – except for growing inequality and financial traders who have minimal oversight. Those we will have to drop, sadly. 

            • Draco T Bastard 19.2.1.1.1.2

              This one rover mission cost over 3b NZD.

              And took how many years to develop?

              You can’t have it all

              Yes, actually, we can. We presently produce more food than we can eat using a small fraction of the population. Same goes for housing, training and mining. Thing is, if we actually limited our economy to provide only that which we need as far as those essentials go we could actually have a hell of a lot more than we do now as we wouldn’t be wasting so much of our economy producing cheap food to buy expensive toys. Back 30 years ago when we actually had a major manufacturing sector the service sector made up only about 5% to 10% of the economy, now it makes up about 30% which really is a huge waste of resources. Do more stuff, be richer and all we have to do is sacrifice McDs. I think we can live with that.

              • weka

                We presently produce more food than we can eat using a small fraction of the population.
                 

                But only because we’re strip mining the fertility from the soil that was built up over millennia. It ain’t going to last. Wanting to run a space program when we are likely to struggle to feed ourselves some time this century is a very strange idea. But even if that weren’t true, there are still better things to spend our money/time/energy on.
                 
                 

                • Weka, I think you may find that the space programme spends only a fraction on the most colossal waste of time, money, and energy in human history; the arms trade.

                  At least with the space programme, we’re furthering the boundaries of our collective knowledge.

                  With the arms trade, we’re creating novel ways to slaughter each other.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  But only because we’re strip mining the fertility from the soil that was built up over millennia.

                  There’s a solution to that, one that’s been known for centuries:

                  1.) Only produce enough food for us so we’re no longer strip mining the nutrients
                  2.) Once we’ve finished with the produce we treat it and then return it to the soil using suitable field rotation so that the earth can fully reintegrate the nutrients (no more need of artificial fertilisers)
                  3.) Make sure our population never goes above what the land can support

                  Throw in renewable power generation to run the electric tractors and we still only use a small fraction of the population to feed ourselves. Besides, farming has always resulted in lots of people with nothing to do. It’s how civilisation developed, how the sciences came to be understood etc etc so even if we were back to the same productivity that the Romans had 2000 years ago (which isn’t going to happen) we’d still be able to support a space program.

                  But even if that weren’t true, there are still better things to spend our money/time/energy on.

                  You let people work where their interests lie and some people are going to want to do space. Probably several thousand in fact.

                  • weka

                    “There’s a solution to that, one that’s been known for centuries:”
                     
                    But not one that’s practiced on land that’s already been stripped mined (and they didn’t use electric tractors, for very good reasons). I understand what sustainable agriculture is, and I agree that stopping exporting food is crucial whatever we do next.
                     
                    However, see if you can produce one reputable source that shows NZ’s capacity to produce food sustainably, what the population would be, and how we would manage all our other needs within an acceptable footprint. AFAIK that work hasn’t been done yet.
                     

                    You let people work where their interests lie and some people are going to want to do space.
                     

                    At the moment, many want to make shit loads of money from growing and exporting industrial milk. Many also want to eat at McDs.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Unfortunately, the country can’t and won’t stop exporting food unless we want to cease buying items and energy from overseas.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      AFAIK that work hasn’t been done yet.

                      No it hasn’t and so it needs to be done. The fact that it hasn’t been done isn’t an argument against the basic premise.

                      At the moment, many want to make shit loads of money from growing and exporting industrial milk.

                      So? Regulation prevents over use of the land meaning that they can’t no matter how much they want to.

                      Many also want to eat at McDs.

                      But nobody wants to work there.

                      @Colonial Viper

                      Unfortunately, the country can’t and won’t stop exporting food unless we want to cease buying items and energy from overseas.

                      We’d need a transition period but the sooner we start it the sooner we finish it.

                    • weka

                      No it hasn’t and so it needs to be done. The fact that it hasn’t been done isn’t an argument against the basic premise.
                       

                      Er, yes it is. What you are proposing isn’t possible given peak oil, economics, the size of our population relative to land, the state of our agricultural sector and the fact that most of the population will have a very hard time getting its head around giving up their flat screen TVs (amongst many other things).
                      If we’re lucky we might successfully transition to a low energy society. Transitioning to sustainable food production will take time, and then we won’t have cheap oil to build the wind farms to power the electric tractors, let alone build spaceships.
                       

                      At the moment, many want to make shit loads of money from growing and exporting industrial milk.

                      So? Regulation prevents over use of the land meaning that they can’t no matter how much they want to.
                       

                      Right, but in this brave new world where people have accepted sustainability as a baseline, they’re willing to let the last of our precious metal resources be sent into space? Resources that will be needed by generations to come? I don’t think so.

                      Sorry, but none of this stacks up, not the economics, the resources, or the politics.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      And at the fundamentals, it’s actually the psychology which doesn’t stack up. The psyche of the modern, growth expecting, convenience seeking consumer is (very) badly adapted cope with what needs to be done over the next 20 years.

                    • weka

                      Yep.
                       

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      @CV
                      Well then, we need to change the psychological make up of society. We do that all the time.

                      @weka

                      Er, yes it is.

                      No it’s not.

                      What you are proposing isn’t possible given peak oil, economics, the size of our population relative to land, the state of our agricultural sector and the fact that most of the population will have a very hard time getting its head around giving up their flat screen TVs (amongst many other things).

                      Don’t need oil, economics is the distribution of scarce resources not the movement of money and we have the resources and agriculture needs to decline so as to protect the environment. Won’t be giving up flat screen TVs. They may not have two or more to a house but we can still have them. As I’ve been saying, we have the resources and the knowledge needed to make our own. Such knowledge also goes towards the space program. In fact, if it hadn’t been for the US space program we probably wouldn’t have them today.

                      Transitioning to sustainable food production will take time, and then we won’t have cheap oil to build the wind farms to power the electric tractors, let alone build spaceships.

                      Don’t need oil to do that. Sure, makes it easier but we don’t need it.

                      …they’re willing to let the last of our precious metal resources be sent into space?

                      Two things:
                      1.) We won’t be. Even at present rates of consumption it’s going to be centuries before we (NZ) even start look at running our metal resources dry. The biggest problem will be mining them without oil but there are ways around that to.
                      2.) There’s resources in space that we can start bringing back which don’t come with all that environmental damage that comes with mining on Earth.

                    • “They may not have two or more to a house but we can still have them. As I’ve been saying, we have the resources and the knowledge needed to make our own. Such knowledge also goes towards the space program. ”

                      Quite frankly that is delusional. Some of the materials involved, the precious metals, do not exist in NZ or, if the do, need to be extracted in such a manner as to strip mine large chunks of land for very small, an economical, amounts.

                      This has been pointed out to you several times.

                      “There’s resources in space that we can start bringing back which don’t come with all that environmental damage that comes with mining on Earth.”

                      We are decades away from that.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      This has been pointed out to you several times.

                      Really? I haven’t seen them so point them out to me.

                      BTW, I assume you mean rare earth metals rather than “precious metals”.

                      We are decades away from that.

                      So the earlier we start the better.

                    • Without trawling through the archives Draco you’ll remember the discussion you have with higherstandard (I believe it was) and myself about the manufacturing of surgical equipment in New Zealand. And I have also discussed with you the feasibility of this also re: New Zealand having little in the way of radioactive materials. Don’t play dumb.

                      “There’s resources in space that we can start bringing back which don’t come with all that environmental damage that comes with mining on Earth.”

                      We are decades away and no matter how soon we start we are still going to have to find our own rare metals first and construct, test and more than likely lose many probes before getting it right. Metals NZ doesn’t have without significant investment in mining

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Oh, that short spiel where I proved you wrong by linking to the official geo-data. Got it. IIRC, I even said that I supported building a research reactor for the medical supplies.

                      Metals NZ doesn’t have without significant investment in mining

                      And I’ve even said that I supported such mining. My biggest problem with most mining plans in NZ is that it ends up without NZ actually benefiting from it due to:
                      1.) It’s usually done by an offshore company that has the mining rights
                      2.) Which then sells the produce offshore for a huge profit usually in its raw format (little or no processing is actually done here)
                      3.) That huge profit is then also shipped offshore except for the minimal royalties we demand
                      4.) We then have to buy back the products produced from those resources at higher prices than what it would have cost to make them here

                      Private companies should not be benefiting from our resources (much better for us if the government did the mining) and raw resources should not be exported at all.

              • Indeed, Draco.

                On top of that, when we had our own manufacturing sector, we had low unemployment and few people on unemployment welfare.

                Now we have cheap showes from China – and a whopping huge social welfare bill with it. No wonder we can’t afford free tertiary education any more.

                So those “cheap” chinese shoes ain’t so cheap after all.

                Interestingly, Bernard Hickey said something about our non-productive service sector a few months back, He stated that having thousands of people working in service, retail, and other similar sectors was a drag on the economy because it wasn’t supporting a productive export sector…

              • bad12

                No please No, anything but macca’s, take Pizza-sh*t and Kentucky-turd, but please oh please leave us with our Macca’s…

  16. Kotahi Tāne Huna 20

    Yay! Amazing. Fantastic. Something for humans to be proud of.

  17. Adele 22

    Frankly, I am hoping that if there are Martians, they will tell humanity to keep the fuck off their planet.

    Until we learn to look after our own we should not be going anywhere near another planet.

  18. prism 23

    The graphic looks like parts of Blenheim in the dry summer. Why not spend the money frittered away on ‘nice to have’ science for rich kids and spend the money supplying watering systems that conserve water to poor countries? We don’t want to end up looking like Mars.

    The Sahara and such is similar with sand rolling ever on to make a good photo op of a dry area with great images of shadow and sand troughs and lines of people and camels in lonely stark isolation that’s almost as hostile as Mars.

    • joe90 23.1

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/12/senegal-great-green-wall

      Senegal is one of 11 countries in the Sahel region of Africa looking towards the same solution to the desertification problem: The Great Green Wall. The goal of the project is to plant a wall of trees, 4,300 miles long and 9 miles wide, across the African continent, from Senegal to Djibouti. African leaders hope the trees will trap the sands of the Sahara and halt the advance of the desert.

      P

    • weka 23.2

      That photo made me wince, because it’s similarity to places we’ve created 🙁 Glad the irony wasn’t lost on quite everyone prism.

    • Draco T Bastard 23.3

      Those poor countries are probably quite rich and are certainly quite capable of administering their own resources. Sure, help them with the knowledge they need to do that administration better but, other than that, leave them to it.

      • weka 23.3.1

        I think NZ has already demonstrated that its not capable of administering its own resources.

        • Colonial Viper 23.3.1.1

          Partly disagree here. NZ was one of the first jurisdictions in the world to electrify. We did extremely well with our natural resources and infrastructure planning between the 1930’s and the 1960’s. (Much credit goes to the MoW and its forerunners which like idiots we broke up and sold off to the private sector).

          During WWII our vertically integrated rail systems kept the country running. The railways ran coal mines, forests, foundries, design offices and engineering workshops, virtually everything it needed to keep going, under its own control and co-ordination.

          Muldoon showed some vision on the transport and energy side of the equation, too.

          We were once a powerful nation in our own right.

        • Draco T Bastard 23.3.1.2

          We can but not under free-market capitalism. Free-market capitalism actually makes it impossible to manage the economy.

  19. joe90 24

    Just four more years until Juno arrives.

    • prism 24.1

      Juno – great technology, great expenditure. Poor people and infrastructure on earth for non-scientists and non-technocrats. Squillions spent on technology – thousands spent on humans and caring for our environment.

      And technology’s use – the drone planes – robot murderers from the sky, the stealth plane a black Darth Vader so expensive, to spy undetected. Some good things in the mix, but what a brew.

      A constant turning away from people, soft objects – to technology producing hard objects. Really an art installation of man’s death wish. No wonder that women and babies have to struggle for consideration and respect in this world.

  20. Richard Christie 25

    Awesome, NASA rocks,
    A shame William Pickering is no longer here to enjoy the Jet Propulsion Lab’s continuing triumphs.

  21. Carol 26

    The space beyond earth, is an imaginary space for humans to exercise their mental exploration of what might have been, and what might be in the future.

    I enjoy space fiction – it is a fertile site for the imagination to roam, especially when it is visualised on screen with accompanying sound effects.

    I rarely get excited by actual space exploration – I think it’s appeal to many is via imagination, but, for me, fiction does it better.

    It’ll be interesting if something is learned about the existence of life in the universe. But I still can’t get that excited about so much effort (and resources) for relatively limited gain.

    • lprent 26.1

      I’m far more interested in the geology than I am in the search for life. While I suspect that Mars did in fact have life from several billion years or more ago, I also suspect that its traces are going to be pretty hard to locate from the current surface.

      Like most of the early life (and the vast majority of current life) on earth most of the biomatter would have been and maybe still is well underground and away from the rather toxic environment on the surface.

      However the geology of the planet surface that hasn’t had the massive amount of rework that earth’s surface has had will in all liklihood reveal a lot about things that we simply can’t see on earth, but which are important to us now. In particular the interactions between atmosphere and rock are going to be massively easier to see on mars than they are on earth

  22. sophie 27

    Hope there are no cats on Mars.

  23. TT 28

    … meanwhile, as the USA spends billions on the pissing contest known as the space race, millions starve here on earth. Priorities?

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1

      If it were a case of “either the space race or an end to starvation” you’d have a point, but it isn’t. The fact is that historically, there has been enough food to go around. It wasn’t NASA preventing it reaching the mouths that needed it, it was politics and war.

      NASA employees are also at the cutting edge of Climatology, which warns of the threat of genuine (as opposed to politically driven) future food shortages.

      We could all learn something from NASA’s priorities.

      • weka 28.1.1

        Climate isn’t really the issue though either. Humans can grow food in a wide range of climates. The problem is whether we can grow food sustainably and without cheap oil. In that sense the criticism of space exploration stands. We are wasting much, including critical time, by pursuing mars instead of looking at crucial issues like loss of soil.
         
        Is there a reason why NASA can’t study climate without going into space?
         

        • Draco T Bastard 28.1.1.1

          Yes, they need the satellites and being able to study the Martian climate helps to understand ours.

          • weka 28.1.1.1.1

            But it’s not necessary to go to Mars to understand our own climate.

            • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1.1.1.1.1

              Perhaps not, but it is inspiring, and will yield unexpected knowledge, and both of those things are “necessary”.

            • Draco T Bastard 28.1.1.1.1.2

              But it is necessary to go into space and so, while we’re there, we may as well go to Mars and get the extra data.

              • prism

                DTB
                Jokey Hen can use that argument. It is necessary for me to travel to Hawaii and while I’m in that part of the world I can look around and research and find out what’s going on under the surface and bring this life-giving knowledge back to NZ to aid us all. What a sweet excuse that sounds.

        • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1.1.2

          “Humans can grow food in a wide range of climates.”

          A true statement. No-one has yet worked out how to get high crop yields from deserts.

          • weka 28.1.1.2.1

            We don’t need high yield crops, unless we want to run food production as commodities through a capitalist model. What we need is produce food that people eat and sustains them, and that can be done in a desert. Humans have been living in deserts for a very long time.
             
             
             

            • Kotahi Tāne Huna 28.1.1.2.1.1

              Well sure, apart from the fact that this scenario involves mass starvation before the new equilibrium is reached. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

              • weka

                You seem to think we have a choice about that. Which is ironic, given I am the one arguing for better use of the resources we have eg improving food security rather than doing space exploration.
                 
                The way we feed the world now is unsustainable. Even if peak oil weren’t in the picture we would be facing some serious problems from the loss of topsoil which is a direct result of modern farming practices (other cultures have lost arable land through farming practices too but they tend to do it over a much long time period and with less population pressure). We can’t keep doing what we are doing and increase population and go to space. 
                 
                We have a window of opportunity here, one that is rapidly shrinking. I understand the excitement and inspiration people feel about the mars landing. I just don’t see how that stacks up against the future we are facing. Yes we need inspiration, but only crazy people value that over survival needs.
                 
                http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/feb/14/science.environment
                 
                Note the date on that article. It’s not like we haven’t been warned.

                • Kotahi Tāne Huna

                  I am under no illusions about “choice”. I think the “window of opportunity” has closed. Adaptation is now far more important than mitigation, and with that in mind, NASA will have a very important role to play.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Which is ironic, given I am the one arguing for better use of the resources we have eg improving food security rather than doing space exploration.

                  The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Farming allows the population to be fed at a sustainable level using only a small fraction of the population which leaves people and resources available to do other things such as space exploration.

                  The big problem with food security is over population and increasing food production actually increases the over population. This is why it’s important that we find out just what the carrying capacity of the Earth and individual nations is and then communicate that to the individuals that make up those nations with the information about how to limit population growth (contraception, abortion etc). But even doing that would still leave enough resources to support a space program.

                  • prism

                    DTB
                    Space program – an expensive way for men to get far away from mundane tasks of being with family, doing the dishes and mowing the lawn.

            • prism 28.1.1.2.1.2

              weka
              I guess you have come across these names that have stayed in my memory as inspiring and achieving people in environmental matters.
              – Richard St Barbe Baker is a name to think of and here is link of one project – http://www.menofthetrees.com.au/
              In his retirement he lived in NZ till his death I think.

              Also – Wendy Campbell-Purdie is a name that should be known.
              http://www.primitivism.com/tree-of-life.htm
              She worked on the fringe of a desert planting trees that could handle the conditions and were strong growers and then crops under the shade of their canopies so there was less evaporation. She was very successful to get a working system established in a male-oriented area and rather corrupt political system.

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  • Brexit vote costs NZ effective EU voice
    Despite being extremely close the result of the referendum in Britain reflects the majority voice, Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson David Shearer says. “While we respect the decision to leave the EU, it goes without saying the move will usher in ...
    2 days ago
  • Pasifika Education Centre doomed
    The Pasifika Education Centre appears doomed to close down this December, says Labour’s Pacific Island Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio  “In a written question I asked the Minister whether he would put a bid in for more money. His answer ...
    3 days ago
  • Onetai Station review a shameful whitewash
    A report released today on the Overseas Investment Office’s (OIO) good character test is a whitewash that does nothing to improve New Zealand’s overseas investment regime, says Labour’s Land Information spokesperson David Cunliffe. “The review of the good character test ...
    3 days ago
  • We need a national strategy to end homelessness now
    Long before I entered Parliament, housing and homelessness were issues dear to my heart. I know from personal experience just how hard it is to find an affordable home in Auckland. In my maiden speech, I talked about how when ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    3 days ago
  • Capital feels a chill economic wind
      Wellington is on the cusp of recession with a sharp fall in economic confidence in the latest Westpac McDermott Miller confidence survey, says Labour’s Regional Development spokesperson David Clark.  “Economic confidence amongst Wellingtonians has dropped 12% in the past ...
    3 days ago
  • Dive school rort took six years to dredge up
    News that yet another private training establishment (PTE) has rorted the Government’s tertiary funding system since 2009 shows that Steven Joyce has no control of the sector, says Labour’s Associate Education (Tertiary) spokesperson David Cunliffe. “Like Agribusiness Training and Taratahi, ...
    4 days ago
  • National’s housing crisis hitting renters hard
    National’s ongoing housing crisis is causing massive rental increases, with Auckland renters being hit the hardest, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    4 days ago
  • A Day with the PSA
    This week, along with Labour MP Kris Faafoi, I accepted an invitation to spend a day working alongside the good folk at the Public Service Association in Wellington. As the Workplace Relations and Safety spokesperson for the Greens, I was ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    4 days ago
  • A Day with the PSA
    This week, along with Labour MP Kris Faafoi, I accepted an invitation to spend a day working alongside the good folk at the Public Service Association in Wellington. As the Workplace Relations and Safety spokesperson for the Greens, I was ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    4 days ago
  • Government holds Northland back
    New information shows Northland remains the most economically depressed region in New Zealand, says Labour’s Regional Development spokesperson David Clark. “The latest Westpac McDermott Miller regional survey found that more Northlanders believe their local economy will deteriorate this year than ...
    4 days ago
  • Rebstock report into MFAT leaks a disgrace
    An Ombudsman’s report on the Paul Rebstock investigation into MFAT leaks shows the two diplomats at the centre of the case were treated disgracefully, says Labour’s State Services spokesperson Kris Faafoi.  “The Ombudsman says one of the diplomats Derek Leask ...
    4 days ago
  • More families forced to turn to food banks for meals
    Increasing numbers of families are having to go to food banks just to put a meal on the table, according to a new report that should shame the Government into action, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni. ...
    4 days ago
  • We have a housing emergency in New Zealand
    Auckland, New Zealand, where house prices have risen 20 percent in the last year alone We have a housing emergency in New Zealand.  Like many people we are ashamed and angry that in a wealthy country like ours, we have ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    5 days ago
  • We have a housing emergency in New Zealand
    Auckland, New Zealand, where house prices have risen 20 percent in the last year alone We have a housing emergency in New Zealand.  Like many people we are ashamed and angry that in a wealthy country like ours, we have ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    5 days ago
  • Aussie reforms signal trouble ahead for school funding plan
    Plans by the Government to return to bulk funding are likely to see increased class sizes and schools most in need missing out on much-needed resources, Labour’s Acting Education spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The signaled return to bulk funding is ...
    5 days ago
  • Toxic Sites – the down low on the go slow
    In  2011, I negotiated an agreement with the National Government to advance work on cleaning up contaminated sites across the country. This included establishing a National Register of the ten worst sites where the creators of the problem could not ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    5 days ago
  • Aucklanders face new motorway tax of up to $2500 a year
    The Government wants to tax Aucklanders thousands of dollars a year just to use the motorway network, says Labour’s Auckland Issues spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Officials estimate the average city commute is 11.8km. This means for the average Aucklander commuting five ...
    5 days ago
  • 15 corrupt bank managers identified in student fraud
    New information show 15 bank managers in India have been identified by Immigration New Zealand as presenting fraudulent documents on behalf of foreign students studying here, Labour’s Immigration spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “Documents obtained by Labour under the Official Information ...
    5 days ago
  • National leaves Kiwi savers the most vulnerable in OECD
    News last week that Israel’s Finance Minister will insure savers’ bank deposits means New Zealand will be left as the only country in the OECD that has no deposit insurance to protect savers’ funds should a bank fail. Most Kiwis ...
    GreensBy James Shaw
    6 days ago
  • Comprehensive plan for future of work needed
    A Massey University study showing many New Zealanders are unaware of the increasing role of automation in their workplace, highlights the need for a comprehensive plan for the future of work, says Grant Robertson, Chair of Labour’s Future of Work ...
    6 days ago
  • Another National Government failure: 90 day work trials
    On Friday last week, the Treasury released a report by MOTU economic consultants into the effectiveness of the controversial 90-day work trial legislation. The report found that there was “no evidence that the policy affected the number of hires by ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    6 days ago
  • Iraq mission extension case not made
    The Prime Minister has not made the case for extending the Iraq deployment another 18 months nor the expansion of their mission, says Opposition Leader Andrew Little.  “Labour originally opposed the deployment because the Iraqi Army’s track record was poor, ...
    6 days ago
  • Denial is a long river
    William Rolleston from Federated Farmers made the absurd claim on RNZ on Saturday that “we actually have very clean rivers”. This statement doesn’t represent the many farmers who know water quality is in big trouble and are working to clean ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    7 days ago
  • Denial is a long river
    William Rolleston from Federated Farmers made the absurd claim on RNZ on Saturday that “we actually have very clean rivers”. This statement doesn’t represent the many farmers who know water quality is in big trouble and are working to clean ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    7 days ago
  • Melanoma deaths could be avoided by an early access scheme
      The tragic death of Dunedin’s Graeme Dore from advanced Melanoma underlines the cruelty of this Government in promising a treatment but delaying for months, says Labour’s Health Spokesperson Annette King.  “Graeme was diagnosed with Melanoma last year. He used ...
    7 days ago
  • Assessing the Defence White Paper
    The Government’s recently released Defence White Paper has raised questions again about New Zealand’s defence priorities, and in particular the level and nature of public funding on defensive capabilities. The Green Party has a longstanding belief that priority must be ...
    GreensBy Kennedy Graham
    7 days ago
  • Kiwis’ confidence drops again: Economy needs a boost
    Westpac’s consumer confidence survey has fallen for the seventh time in nine quarters, with middle income households ‘increasingly worried about where the economy is heading over the next few years’, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “This survey is a ...
    7 days ago
  • Relocation grant simply kicks can down the road
    The response by state house tenants and social agencies to the Government’s rushed plan to shift families out of Auckland tells us what we already knew – this is no answer to the chronic housing shortage, Opposition Leader Andrew Little ...
    7 days ago
  • Peace hīkoi to Parihaka
    On Friday a Green crew walked with the peace hīkoi from Ōkato to Parihaka. Some of us were from Parliament and some were party members from Taranaki and further afield. It was a cloudy but gentle day and at one ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    7 days ago
  • Children’s Commissioner right to worry about CYF transition
    The Government must listen to the Children’s Commissioner’s concerns that young people under CYF care could be ‘negatively impacted’ as the new agency’s reforms become reality, says Labour’s Children’s spokesperson Jacinda Ardern. “Dr Russell Wills has used the second annual ...
    7 days ago
  • Bill English exaggerates PPL costs to justify veto
    The Finance Minister has used trumped-up costings to justify a financial veto against parents having 26 weeks paid parental leave, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “Bill English’s assertion on RNZ yesterday that the measure would cost an extra $280 million ...
    1 week ago
  • Government must refund overcharged motorists
    Labour is calling on the Government to refund motor registration fees to three-quarters of a million Kiwi motorists whose vehicles were wrongly classified under National’s shambolic ACC motor vehicle risk rating system, Labour’s ACC spokesperson Sue Moroney says.“Minister Kaye’s ridiculous ...
    1 week ago
  • 90-day work trials an unfair failure which must change
    A new Treasury report shows the Government’s 90-day trials haven’t helped businesses and are inherently unfair, Labour’s Workplace Relations spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “The Motu report found that 90-day trial periods had no impact on overall employment and did not ...
    1 week ago
  • Massey East houses a start but Nick Smith should think bigger
    The Massey East 196-home development is a start but the Government must think bigger if it is to end the housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “It is great the Government is finally realising it needs to build ...
    1 week ago
  • More changes needed to ensure fewer cases like Teina Pora’s
    Teina Pora spent 21 years behind bars for a crime he didn’t commit, shafted by a Police investigation that prioritised an investigator’s hunch over the pursuit of credible evidence. Yesterday’s announcement that the government is to pay him $2.5m in ...
    GreensBy David Clendon
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand Labour sends condolences to UK
    The New Zealand Labour Party is sickened and saddened by the murder of British Labour MP Jo Cox, Labour Leader Andrew Little says. “Ms Cox was killed in cold blood while simply doing her job as a constituent MP. She ...
    1 week ago
  • Shameful refugee quota increase still leaves NZ at the bottom of the list
    Minister for Immigration Michael Woodhouse announced this week that the government will put off increasing the refugee quota by 1000 places until 2018.  It’s a shameful decision that undermines the Government’s claim that it takes its international humanitarian obligations seriously, ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Paula Bennett as a victim hard to swallow
    The National Party spin machine has gone into overdrive to try and present Paula Bennett as the victim in the Te Puea Marae smear saga, says Labour Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Bill English in Parliament today tried valiantly to paint ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Voters to have the final veto on paid parental leave
    New Zealanders will have the final right of veto on a Government that has ignored democracy and is out of touch with the pressures and demands on families, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “Today’s decision by National to veto 26 ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Collins should put Kiwis’ money where her mouth is
    Labour’s Police spokesman Stuart Nash is calling on anyone who has received a speeding ticket for going up to 5km/h over the 100km/hr open road speed limit to write to him and he will take it up on their behalf ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Where is the leadership on equal pay for work of equal value?
    The gender pay gap in the public service is worse than in the private sector. I’ve always found this particularly galling because I expect our Government to provide an example to the private sector on things like human rights, rather ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    2 weeks ago
  • Kiwis’ real disposable income goes nowhere for the year
    New Zealanders’ hard work for the last year resulted in no increase in real disposable income, showing Kiwis aren’t getting ahead under National, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Today’s GDP figures reveal that real gross national disposable income per ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Pora case a case to learn from
    Conformation that Teina Pora will receive $2.5million from the Crown for more than 20 years of wrongful imprisonment does not fix the flaws in our system that led to this miscarriage of justice, Labour’s Justice spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. “The ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government needs to start again with RMA changes
    The National Government’s proposed changes to the Resource Management Act have attracted more than 800 submissions, many of them critical of key aspects of the Resource Legislation Bill. There has been much criticism of the new regulation making powers given ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    2 weeks ago
  • Bennett’s briefing completely unacceptable
    It is completely unacceptable that Paula Bennett briefed her political staff on the police investigation into Hurimoana Dennis after her meeting with him, despite it having nothing to do with her social housing portfolio, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to Green Building Council
    Building smarter, greener cities It will be clear to anyone who has been watching the public debate on the housing crisis that housing in New Zealand is sadly far from being economically sustainable when Auckland has the fourth most unaffordable ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Paula Bennett has more questions to answer
    It is unthinkable that Paula Bennett’s press secretary went rogue and tried to smear the reputation of someone involved in helping the homeless, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Political staff would not take such serious unilateral action without the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech on Notice of Motion on Orlando
    Mr Speaker, The Labour Party joins with the government in expressing our horror at this atrocity and our love and sympathy are with the victims and their families. Our thoughts are with the people of Orlando and of the United ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Tiakina Ngā Wai – Swimmable Rivers Report June 2016
    The campaign to clean up our rivers was launched at the Green Conference at Queens Birthday weekend. However, the work prior to the launch goes back a number of years. Russel Norman and Eugenie Sage deserve full credit for the ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    2 weeks ago

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