web analytics

Cynical Key

Written By: - Date published: 11:31 pm, September 24th, 2012 - 133 comments
Categories: accountability, john key, Spying - Tags: ,

So Key knew about the GCSB’s ‘unlawful’ actions for a week before he bothered to tell us.

He happened to know that this Monday state owned companies would be announcing they were causing the loss of 500-600 jobs (including contractors).  A terrible story for the economy.

Only one story would get its full due of airtime.

He had to tell us about the GCSB illegality before the next court appearance in a couple of days.  He could have been upfront and honest and told us 1 week ago, straight after calling in the Inspector-General.  But no, he wanted to hide his complete lack of oversight.  His complete loss of control of his department.

The investigation into whether his “don’t read, don’t care” philosophy went beyond Banks to his oversight of important national security issues.

Then it became clear it would come out.  So then it was a matter of when to slip the bad news out.  And before you can say “Media Management 101” it’s scheduled Monday afternoon in the middle of the job loss announcements.

Cynical.

133 comments on “Cynical Key”

  1. Colonial Viper 1

    So who has the counter media strategy. Anyone? Anyone?

    • Bunji 1.1

      a) call him on it
      b) having multiple opposition parties actually works quite well for this – different parties can choose to push more on either job losses / govt sending economy down tube or John Key, crap minister that isn’t safe as head of National Security…

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

        But who in NZ still believes that it is the Government’s duty to keep people employed in these tough economic times? Surely sensible belt tightening is in order? Especially when the for-profit businesses that they work in (and that Labour set up that way) are under financial pressure?

        You see, this is why Labour has no show of getting traction.

        • infused 1.1.1.1

          Pretty much.

        • muzza 1.1.1.2

          As I posted yesterday, why now, and where is the pressure coming from….I guess thats been cleared up. This is our politics, our country being mocked by “our representatives”, in front of our eyes! Spew worthy frankly! This bad joke of a PM should have the parliament floor wiped with him repeatedly, but it wont happen, again!

          Viper you must have seen the state of Aucklands roads works 20 years or more and the place still looks like its under contruction…Someone is making off like a bandit with all the contracts they must be getting…I sometime wonder if that is part of keeping people in some sort of work, or it is only the collateral that must be used to make the big contracts useful.

          Waiting for the day someone in parliant will just let it rip for the sake of the public, and stuff protocol, just tear into it and spill the beans on the inner goings on of our fucken joke of a governmnet, and opposition!

          Waiting…..

        • Dr Terry 1.1.1.3

          CV. Yes, “sensible” (the crucial word) belt tightening may be in order, providing it happens across the board. But the intelligent know too well that the belt-tightening is targeted toward the already poor, precariously employed workers, beneficiaries, children, youth, everybody on the “lower rung” of society. I would love to hear from you the exact nature of your personal belt-tightening.

      • David H 1.1.2

        Well there’s less than nothing about it on the MSM sites or if there is it’s pretty well hidden. And yes again a silent Well this afternoon in the house should let us know but i won’t hold my breath.

        • freedom 1.1.2.1

          any bets on how many opportunities to discover the truth this afternoon will be lost through the lack of clear single part questions from the opposition ?

        • Populuxe1 1.1.2.2

          Ahem, the post cites Stuff, which is as MSM as you can get.

  2. blue leopard 2

    Cheers Bunji, I really appreciate being alerted to these tactics, thank you. Hope the opposition parties do the same to the general public. 🙁

  3. Mary 3

    Just a shame Shearer’s too stupid to call it. Should’ve seen his ‘reactions’ to things today. The guy’s a liability.

    • David H 3.1

      Makes you wonder if the deafness the govt has, has infected the Labour caucus as well FFS get rid of Shearer, and put Cunliffe in or lose the next election.

    • Dr Terry 3.2

      Oh, did Shearer actually react? I must have missed it!

  4. mike 4

    Another week another revelation of shonkeyness from this govt, and another announcement of hundreds of jobs to be axed, (it’s a good thing Key promised 170,000 new jobs, phew!).

    This case just get more and more strange. So now we are to believe that the GCSB has gone rogue and skipped getting the permission it needed from Key. Akshully they just do what the FBI tells them to do.

    Key: “On the explanation I have at the moment, it was a mistake, an error, but that’s now subject to an inquiry.”

    Right. Whoopsie! We forgot to get the Prime Minister’s permission! That was silly of us wasn’t it!

    I’m more inclined to believe that this was one of those pieces of paper that Key decided not to read. After all, he’s got a got a history of that sort of thing.

    • Colonial Viper 4.1

      Maybe Labour will get some traction in the polls next week then. You reckon?

    • tracey 4.2

      Be fair, he was busy reading all the ns data…

    • mike e 4.3

      its just like the nz herald they seem to be in the loop as well

    • Dr Terry 4.4

      Most incredible of all is that Key would have us believe such a thing was a “mistake”! How do you “mistakenly” set up a surveillance system?

      • mike e 4.4.1

        RNZ this morning GSCB may have started monitoring Kim Dotcom before he was a citizen and carried on after!
        But no doubt they would have needed permission from KEY!

        • Fortran 4.4.1.1

          mike e

          If Dotcom was not a New Zealand Citizen at the time of the intercepts (which is plausible) then Key would not be required to sign anything.
          If they knew he was a New Zealand Citizen at the time, then the SIS would have been involved instead and he would have to approve a warrant.

          • mike e 4.4.1.1.1

            Fatrain your an example of new research that conservatism requires low effort low intelligence thinking!
            The prime minister is supposed to sign off any interceptions that’s why the prime mincer is having an enquiry!

          • Te Reo Putake 4.4.1.1.2

            Fortran, the SIS looks after domestic spying and requires the PM’s signature if the target is a Kiwi citizen or (as in Dotcom’s case) a resident. The GCSB is supposed to be working on offshore intelligence only.

          • lprent 4.4.1.1.3

            If Dotcom was not a New Zealand Citizen at the time of the intercepts

            He is not a NZ citizen now (please take some time to catch up.. This isn’t kiwiblog and being willfully stupid usually marks you out for my moderating attention as a probable troll).

            He has however been a NZ resident since for a while – 2010.

            However the GCSB appear to have continued doing surveillance on him after that residency was granted which would be illegal. It was not handed it over to the SIS as they should have. Now that gets interesting as the PM is the minister on both. But it appears that he has no idea of what the agencies he is meant he is meant to be overseeing are breaking laws.

            Why does that not seem to surprise anyone? Because they know he is incompetent at doing anything important?

            • McFlock 4.4.1.1.3.1

              Be fair: he hasn’t read the job description for PM, so can’t be blamed for being incompetent.
                 
              His nose is getting nicely rosy, though. I wonder if he’ll follow in Muldoon’s  “schnapps election” footsteps.

    • Dr Terry 4.5

      Most incredible of all is that Key would have us believe such a thing was a “mistake”! How do you “mistakenly” set up a surveillance system for a very well known public figure? Spare us from such future “mistakes”! He sure is careful NEVER to accept personal responsibility for anything. The most memorable saying of the late President Truman was “the buck stops here”.

      • Populuxe1 4.5.1

        Well known public figure? Few outside of Auckland knew he even existed and even then were unlikely to retain the information.

        • mike e 4.5.1.1

          Popuganda yeah right!
          The fireworks display the grovelling media circus stalking and showing off his massive mansion

          • Populuxe1 4.5.1.1.1

            I am amazed how much you overestimate the attention span of the general public and the MSM. 
            Had you heard of Alan Hubbard prior to the collapse of South Canterbury Finance? I doubt it.
            By the way, I think “mistake” here is a political euphemism for “bad judgement call, we really screwed the pooch on that one”

            • mike e 4.5.1.1.1.1

              Fuck off pop I’ve met Alan Hubbard you idiot he was idolised up an down the country for being a down to earth VW driving old fashion businessman!
              Who incidentaly was probably suffering from dementia when his company was high jacked by a fraudulent CEO!

            • felix 4.5.1.1.1.2

              “I am amazed how much you overestimate the attention span of the general public and the MSM.”

              Who’s talking about the general public? This is the Prime Fucking Minister and the Government Fucking Communications Security Bureau.

        • Colonial Viper 4.5.1.2

          Well known public figure? Few outside of Auckland knew he even existed and even then were unlikely to retain the information.

          About 1/3 of Queen St is still owned by South Islanders.

        • felix 4.5.1.3

          Prop, even if that were true, which it definitely isn’t – in fact even if no-one outside of Auckland had ever heard of him – that would still be irrelevant to the question of whether he could be called a “public figure”.

          Do you have any idea how few people live outside of Auckland?

  5. higherstandard 5

    It was a classic ‘yes Prime Minister’ play.

    Talking of which here’s another that might be put into action.

  6. tracey 6

    Interestingly the pm today said ignorance was dangerous, or something similar about ns data. Ignorance is obviously crucial to the sis.

    Why didnt shearer or anyone call the pm on this ignorance thing, afterall the data shows nothing new unless you wilfully ignored all data for the last twenty years while you dreamed of being pm…

    Of course now they have the data how will te govt spin their lack of action/ funding to address the results?

  7. Poission 7

    Crown lawyers have been aware of this for a month,whether they informed the Attorney general is the Question that needs to be asked.Did Finlayson know?.

  8. Logie97 8

    Those “assurances at the time” are becoming less and less credible.

    . Transrail shares
    . 1981
    . Lord Ashcroft
    . Blind trusts
    . Banks
    . Dotcom

    Who knows, maybe a party will run an election campaign on “Trust”. Now there’s a novel idea. (It certainly won’t be NACT.)

    • The Woodpecker 8.1

      Standard and poors downgrade.

    • muzza 8.2

      When foreign entities control our political parties, and hence our MP’s, then trust is only a word, like transparency, and brighter future which are lies.

      The only way NZ will have MPs it might be able to trust, is if every day people take take a very active role in politics, and that means no more parties, not the legacy anyway!

      • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1

        The only way NZ will have MPs it might be able to trust, is if every day people take take a very active role in politics, and that means no more parties, not the legacy anyway!

        Although I agree with the first parts I disagree with the last. ATM, Getting politically active means joining a political party. If you don’t do that then you can’t have any influence.

    • David H 8.3

      At the moment they could point to all that they have done, have Key give a sickly grin and still fuckin win!

  9. tracey 9

    Its ok, no one lied, key is always aspiring, which means you never have to achieve anything, and we are not achieving anything so ergo he tells the truth…

    • David H 9.1

      But Key knows he can get away with it, Whats Shearer going to say? Have you got faith in all your fellow thieves? FFS

  10. karol 10

    And Key fangirl, Tracy Watkins has labelled the Megaupload case a “Keystone Cops” farce.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/tracy-watkins/7724194/Megaupload-saga-resembles-Keystone-Cops

    Does she realise she’s handed the opposition a great line? Can’t wait for someone to do a photo-mashup!

    NB: I have a new look, but I sound the same – the k just gives me a bit of distinction.

  11. Brian 11

    And Key suggests the redundants should seek employment in the IT industry…. the man really is on another planet.

  12. tracey 12

    Oh i dont know, there are times i want to put a pick ax through my pc screen

  13. tc 13

    And in the Dim post one Richard Long declaring the Banks has survived the donations saga….being purely objective of course with some healthy doses of wishful thinking. Yet another nat shill getting column space to peddle the lines.

  14. Treetop 14

    19 January 2012 Key is put in the loop regarding the Dotcom raid on 20 January 2012. It takes Key (minister of National Security) until 17 September 2012 to become aware that the GCSB acted unlawfully. For sure Key has been on Planet Key as he alleges he was not aware of (unlawful spying) when it comes to a high profile case.

    Systemic failure once again between the police and the government security intelligence services.

    • karol 14.1

      There was just a couple of must hear interviews on Nine-to-Noon (not yet online) with Paul Buchanan and Nicky Hager:

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/20120925

      PS: now online:

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2533588/government-communications-security-bureau-investigated.asx

      Buchanan reckons the police were trying to please the FBI & called in GCSB. He reckons the police will take the blame for the errors.The FBI will be able to continue their case, but the evidence gathered by GCSB will be inadmissible. The outcome may or may not impact on NZ’s obligations to deport.

      Hager reckons this highlights the problem with the lack of accountability of the GCSB (and SIS). They are set up to operate in secret, and say “Trust us: we have sound systems”. They only have oversight from the PM, who is too busy to pay enough attention to their daily activities. He reckons it’ll take a strong, motivated and independent government to change it. He reckons the GCSB operates largely to do work for overseas interests and especially are closer to the US than any other NZ agency.

      There are still questions about whether the GG was head of GCSB when the surveillance was authorised 2010 to early 2011.

      Hager also thinks it is possible Key did know about the surveillance earlier than he is letting on – but the problem is we may never know the truth.

      • Treetop 14.1.1

        Thanks for this info I will follow it up.

        • Anne 14.1.1.1

          Yes that was very interesting – Paul Buchanan’s summation in particular.

          It should be pointed out that Kim Dotcom is wrong when he makes the comparison between the CIA and the GCSB. The actual equivalent is the NSA – National Security Agency.

          .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency

          • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1.1

            Ahhhh the NSA. They’ve just put absolutely massive resources into being able to intercept and permanently store EVERY single phone call, txt, and email sent in the USA by its own citizens and by anyone conducting business there.

            http://www.zerohedge.com/news/nsa-whistleblower-speaks-live-government-lying-you

            • Populuxe1 14.1.1.1.1.1

              Aside from most service providers doing that anyway in one form or another – thus only being a subpoena away – I find it nigh on impossible to believe that an NSA would be permitted to go into such details about data acquisition without serious repercussions. And computers aren’t magic – there are limits to the amount of data they can recognise and sort though. Smells fishy to me.

              • Colonial Viper

                And computers aren’t magic – there are limits to the amount of data they can recognise and sort though. Smells fishy to me.

                This is a 10 ha, $2B data interception centre, ready to roll end of 2013. It is designed to far exceed their previous capability of intercepting and recording 320M calls per day.

                http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1

                • terryg

                  indeed. there was an interesting article on Ars Technica (IIRC) a while back, that made the point that hard-drives have evolved to the point (capacity & cost) that not only is it feasible to record everything, its feasible to keep it forever. (for appropriate values of “everything” and “forever”). including things like surveillance video.

                  And of course big data sets have long been an active research topic (LHC for example), and data mining is becoming ubiquitous. Moores law has finally enabled big brother. yikes.

                  • lprent

                    There are some definite limits with current tech. Says the person who moved data from two dying terabyte drives in a RAID 1 this weekend. It takes so frigging long and the drives have pretty short lives. Same reason the site was down ? last week ? for most of a day. As the volumes increase the maintenance nightmare and power requirements increases geometrically. We need storage media with longer lives especially for video.

                    Turns out that my OS requires about 6GB with all of the multi architectures and tools. Feels pretty weird when my current target platform puts everything into 300mb including a 80mb geographic info file.

                    Everything else I have requires less than 150GB. Video for non programming projects makes up the rest of the terabytes of data.

                    Starting to move to SSDs. I figure that despite the smaller capacities and higher prices, they will last longer.

          • BernyD 14.1.1.1.2

            I wonder If they are looking for a real spy, should get my CV together.
            About 20 pages of blackedout blocks filled in with felt pen should do it 😛

  15. Jokerman 15

    “Prime Minister of Intelligence; Not So Intelligent”

    (just loaded)

    • Treetop 15.1

      What do you think happens when the prime minister is not intelligent, the country goes to the dogs. Just take a good look around at the performance of the police, national security, Work and Income, ACC, the health and education system, housing, poverty and people with high skills being laid off…

    • mike e 15.2

      Johnkey English bungling super spy.
      Mr bean brained bean counter intelligence!

  16. captain hook 16

    Kweewee thinks he has a “BLANK CHEQUE” to do whatever he likes.
    His vocabulary is so limited that words like democracy are new discoverys.

  17. Dv 18

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836388

    English knew about Dotcom spies

    Mr Key said this morning Mr English had signed a Ministerial Certificate to confirm the Government Communications Security Bureau was involved in the case in his capacity as acting Prime Minister while Mr Key was overseas.

    BUT isn’t this is retrospective permission for an illegal act.

    It was ell known that dot com was a nz resident at that time.

    Bizzarre

  18. Pascal's bookie 19

    RadioLIVE Newsroom ‏@LIVENewsDesk

    Labour says Bill English signed an indemnity order making NZ liable for any damages case taken by Kim Dotcom over unlawful spying by GCSB

    https://twitter.com/LIVENewsDesk/status/250362662532284416

  19. Pascal's bookie 20

    More on that here:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836388

    Mr Key said this morning Mr English had signed a Ministerial Certificate to confirm the Government Communications Security Bureau was involved in the case in his capacity as acting Prime Minister while Mr Key was overseas.

    That was back in August after Police were questioned about it in court by Dotcom’s lawyers during last month’s trial into the legality of the raids.

    At the time, Mr Key was in the United States watching his son play baseball.

    Mr Key said Mr English had not told him about it and at the time, Mr English had believed the GCSB’s involvement was lawful – it was only discovered after that that the GCSB had acted beyond their lawful powers because Mr Dotcom and his acquaintances were New Zealand residents.

    • karol 20.1

      Ha! Thanks. And we wondered at the time why Key suddenly felt it necessary to go to his son’s baseball game – 10 August 2011. Plausible dependability?

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7450343/Key-defends-hard-call-to-miss-service

    • freedom 20.2

      one would think spending 10 million bucks for NZ residency would mean the i’s get dotted and some t’s get crossed. Instead it seems the lies get spotted and the truth gets lost.

    • deuto 20.3

      Stuff now has their article up on Bill English’s signing of a document which provides some more interesting details

      But Key admitted today English was alerted to the involvement of spooks in August, while acting prime minister. Key was in the US watching teenage son Max compete in a baseball tournament.

      The role of the secretive GCSB began to unravel when Dotcom’s lawyer Paul Davison asked for the identity of mystery individuals at a meeting before police and FBI agents raided the entrepreneur’s Coatesville mansion in January.

      After the court hearing English signed a ‘ministerial certificate’ – an administrative document – relating to the court case.

      Neither Key nor English can recall the exact date. But Key left for a ten-day trip on on August 9 – the same day the mysterious group was first revealed in court.

      ”There was a ministerial certificate that was signed. That’s another technical issue, I haven’t actually seen the paper work on that, that would have indicated that the bureau was involved,” Key said this morning.

      ”A ministerial certificate is in relation to information about whether the bureau has acted, because a court, or someone might ask, for that information. So, it’s essentially a suppression order.

      Both the GCSB and English were unaware at the time that the covert eavesdropping was illegal. GCSB were alerted five days before Key – there was a delay in briefing him because director Ian Fletcher was overseas.

      The bugging is believed to have taken place under former head Simon Murdoch, who was director of GCSB between July 1 2011 and December 19 2011.

      Bolding is mine.

      The apparent timing of the bugging is interesting in that it predates KDC’s getting NZ residency.

      The timing of the signing of the ministerial certificate is also interesting – ie seems to be a (panic?) reaction to what came out in court; but again we have both English and Key are playing dumb on when the signing took place. And Key calling it a suppression order? What the f..k?

      The video is also worth watching – Key looking very uncomfortable, followed by Shearer speaking very clearly and well for once.

      • deuto 20.3.1

        “The apparent timing of the bugging is interesting in that it predates KDC’s getting NZ residency.”

        Ooops, got the wrong year – got residency in Dec 2010 not 2011, so he was a NZ resident at the apparent time of the bugging.

  20. Jackal 21

    Rogue spies or coverup at the highest level?

    In trying to say there is no warrant, Key is expecting us to believe that the entire chain of command has failed, and the GCSB is acting like a rogue agency, which goes far beyond it being a simple “disappointing mistake” by the Director Ian Fletcher. If the entire chain of command has failed because of gross incompetence, John Key as the Minister in charge is responsible…

  21. HG 22

    As Andrea Vance wrote in her DomPost article this morning Key “was unable to make public the breach until a memorandum was filed with the High Court yesterday”.

  22. handle 23

    Last week a certain US Defence chief visited. Might affect the timing?

    • Mary 24.1

      Key’s got that look on when he’s lying. Key just must’ve known. Nobody would keep that information from him, whether it was the GCSB, English, anyone. Key’s lying. Somebody needs to expose it. That would be so much fun to see.

  23. captain hook 25

    they aint to good at what they do.
    watching too much televison.
    gcsb in noo noo land.

  24. Poission 26

    Oh dear Oh dear its worse then we thought,

    RNZ reports Bill English Knew in August,and signed ministerial suppression warrant (and indemnified Dotcom for liability ) definitely an orchestrated litany of Spies.

  25. captain hook 27

    so Bill English has been watching too much television too?
    and tra daaaa…
    keystone cops!

  26. Tracey 28

    Ah but did English actually read what he signed? Doesn’t not reading make it null and void, accountability-wise?

  27. felix 29

    Does John Key not have a mobile phone?

    Shouldn’t the PM on NZ be provided with one?

  28. gobsmacked 30

    Suggested Qs for the opposition this afternoon …

    “When the PM said last week “I don’t run”, did he actually mean that he doesn’t run the government?”

    “When the PM said his favourite movie is “Johnny English”, was that a tribute to his deputy? Does the PM regard that film as a comedy, or a training manual?”

    “If Kim Dotcom is the James Bond villain, is John Banks Miss Moneypenny?”

    “How many meetings or conversations has he had with the Deputy PM in the six weeks since the warrant was signed?”

    etc, etc …

    But above all – think on your feet. Just listen to the answers and repeat them back. Less brawl, more brains.

  29. If Key had told us a week ago, he may have been committing a criminal offence.

    It is illegal to disclose the existence of unlawfully intercepted communications.

    • tracey 31.1

      is that comparable to deliberately breaching the privacy act?

    • Colonial Viper 31.2

      It is illegal to disclose the existence of unlawfully intercepted communications.

      So instead you should suppress the existence of unlawfully intercepted communications?

    • prism 31.3

      G E
      So any old law that gets passed without scruple or integrity should be bowed and scraped to.
      Laws if they are to be respected, should be respectful of the country’s standards, and respectable so that people see they fit to the ethical and social model that they expect and believe that their country follows.

      • Colonial Viper 31.3.1

        Indeed. Some orders should not – and must not – be followed.

        • Poission 31.3.1.1

          That is an argument used by Paul Volcker when discussing the problems of the GFC

          We have got to do something about the infrastructure of the system and we have to worry about the credit-rating agencies. And we have to look at the accounting system, at the system for dealing with derivatives and how they’re settled. So there are a lot of systemic issues. The main point I’m making is that we want to emerge from this with a more stable system. It will be less exciting for many people, but it will not warrant — I don’t think the present system does, either– $50-million paydays in that central part of the system. Or even $25-or $100-million paydays.

          If somebody can go out and gamble and make that money, OK. But don’t gamble with the public’s money. That’s an important distinction. One of the saddest days of my life was when my grandson — and he’s a particularly brilliant grandson — went to college. He was good at mathematics. And after he had been at college for a year or two I asked him what he wanted to do when he grew up. He said, “I want to be a financial engineer.” My heart sank. Why was he going to waste his life on this profession?

          A year or so ago, my daughter had seen something in the paper, some disparaging remarks I had made about financial engineering. She sent it to my grandson, who normally didn’t communicate with me very much. He sent me an e-mail: “Grandpa, don’t blame it on us! We were just following the orders we were getting from our bosses.” The only thing I could
          do was send him back an e-mail: “I will not accept the Nuremberg excuse.”

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcker_Rule

        • Herodotus 31.3.1.2

          Not sure how Key can know that an unlawful act was committed, as there has yet to be a court case to decide there maybe some extenuating circumstances – perhaps the police will not charge due to perhaps like Banks lack of evidence so no laws broken !!!!
          As I have not read, what laws were broken just that the GCSB acted beyond its brief. So would appreciate to know what actual law was broken and the ramifications to both the organisation and individuals e.g. fines , imprisonment etc ??

          • karol 31.3.1.2.1

            Key did say there was an unlawful act committed to the media. In the House today he quibbled on that:

            http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Business/QOA/3/5/9/50HansQ_20120925_00000001-1-Dotcom-Case-Actions-of-Government-Communications.htm

            1. Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister responsible for the GCSB: Does he consider that he should have been informed about the unlawful bugging of Kim Dotcom earlier than Monday, 17 September 2012; if not, why not?

            Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Minister responsible for the GCSB) : No, I was informed by the director of the Government Communications Security Bureau on 17 September, which was the first day I was in Wellington following travel to Russia and Japan, and the first opportunity I had to meet with the director in a secure environment once he had confirmed that it was likely an unlawful activity had taken place.

            Dr Russel Norman: Is it his understanding that the bugging was unlawful because Mr Kim Dotcom is a resident of New Zealand?

            Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I am not in a position to go through what the particular issues are. I can say that the law is quite clear in one regard about what sort of individual can have action taken against them, and in the fullness of time—hopefully, by the end of this week—Justice Neazor’s report will be available for people to be able to read.

            Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I have to check; I am not entirely sure. I have actually said it is likely to be unlawful, and, as I said, we will be in a better position to understand the reasons—

            • Tracey 31.3.1.2.1.1

              “Justice Neazor’s report will be available for people to be able to read.”

              And that’s when a follow up question was needed. “Will the PM confirm that he will read this report?”

  30. ed 33

    He can not hide his transrail eyes.

    he would be shit at poker.

    • mike 33.1

      Ha like at 0:35 when asked “Can you explain why GCSB were involved with this in the first place?”

      Key: “Um… Well, because they gather information… when they deem it to be necessary.”

      Thanks for clearing that up.

    • mike e 33.2

      good at swallowing dead rats though!
      Cup of tea on the ‘cards’ for Winston?

  31. Poission 34

    Nice report on Campbell Live tonight.there is some exceptional reporting and simplistic communication by this News team.

    They were onto the taskforce officer,who perjured himself on the stand.This should be either a PCA complaint or solicitor general complaint.

    There is a lot of mileage,and all the ministers need to be questioned.

    • karol 34.1

      The sum total of people who didn’t tell Key anything is beyond belief. Either most are lying, or Key is a lame duck PM.

      • Poission 34.1.1

        Amazing Hilary Clinton knew but did not share the intelligence.

      • gobsmacked 34.1.2

        Either most are lying, or Key is a lame duck PM.

        Neither. It’s called plausible deniability.

        http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2012/09/25/gordon-campbell-on-dotcom-spies-and-plausible-deniability/

        Key doesn’t say “Tell me”. He doesn’t say “Don’t tell me”. He has staff whose job is to be a barrier between the PM and the information. If the info is useful politically, it gets passed on to the PM. If it’s not, then he’s not told, so he can say “I wasn’t told”.

        As Gordon C points out, this is very different from his predecessor, but it’s not unusual in politics. Key just takes it further (and it’s worked for him so far).

        • mike 34.1.2.1

          Isn’t plausible deniability supposed to be plausible?

        • Tracey 34.1.2.2

          I recall in 2008 when Key was attacking clark over the glen/peters saga, he told Paul Henry he would answer questions not even asked of him, that’s how transparent he would be.

          Someone needs to find that clip from the Breakfast show… to show how far Mr Key’s lies extend…

  32. Ken Martin 35

    Hmm, While hindsight is 100%, I do think GCSB should have double checked the police advice about the status of Mr Dotcom and his employee. As President Ronald Reagan used to say, “trust but verify”. Or they could have checked with their domestic companion agency, the SIS, or the government’s immigration service. This whole sorry saga is another example of police incompetence compounded by a captive compliant police minister. Like the rest of her cabinet ilk, she is not worthy of her ministerial warrant.

    Personally, I am fed up with National, and with National-lite (Labour).

    What with bungles over the proposed part one asset sales process, and now a Megaupload mess, enough is enough. “The Face” aka John Boy, ought to seek a fresh mandate with a new election. Boy, is it so true that voters get governments they deserve!

    • Tracey 35.1

      I’m not in an intelligence service, heck I’m probably not even intelligent, but I would have asked Immigration about Mr Dotcom’s status, not the police. First, anyway.

  33. karol 36

    Another point just occurred to me. For some reason Garner has been running the story the last couple of nights that Nat strategists are looking at working with Peters & NZF next election. Seems like this was leaked to Garner from within National. Why now?

    Is this in fact, Key’s plan B if he has to jettison Banks before the end of this term….. thus the reason he’s looking to cultivate Peters now?

    • Poission 36.1

      Definitely inside test,I suspect suspect their internal polling is showing drift to NZF as seen in the horizon poll.

      I think the media needs to target Dunn on this issue.Also labour needs a strong local candidate in this electorate,some new blood time for a change etc.Selecting now would be a good strategy.

  34. appleboy 37

    Hello, am I missing something? Key says he didn’t know about it. Today, Oh Bill has just told me that he knew about it!!

    There’s no way that when Bill English signed off he would not have told Key. What the hell is going on with these clowns, are they falling over their lies?

    Key to English “Anything happen while I was away Bill?”, “Nah mate nothing I can think of….”.

    • mike e 37.1

      KB haven’t mentioned one single item on the fact that Blinglsh signed on the dotted line not once have they mentioned that fact!
      That says it all!

  35. AmaKiwi 38

    If Dotcom was not a NZ resident, the entire extradition process would have been unnecessary.

    The USA waits until Dotcom’s tourist visa expires. He has to leave NZ. The USA has him arrested at the first overseas airport he touches down at. Simple.

    The commando raid extradition drama was because the USA, Key, English, the police, and the GCSB knew Dotcom had a residence visa.

    I know governments lie. But these clowns aren’t even competent liars.

    • Tracey 38.1

      Interesting point.

      Maybe the quid pro quo for Key (from the USA in allowing the Dotcom seizure) was “if anything happens you protect me from the fallout”…

  36. Dv 39

    No fun in that.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Budget2016: Two Worlds
    Sometimes I feel as if I live in two worlds. The world created by the National Government where everything is great and they’re doing a great job and the world as seen through the eyes of child advocates, community workers,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    3 hours ago
  • Parekura would be proud – MTS gets boost
    The Labour Party is ecstatic that the Māori Party have shown support for one of Labour’s proudest policies, says Labour’s Māori Broadcasting Spokesperson Peeni Henare.  “The Māori Television Service was launched in 2004 by the late Hon Parekura Horomia. ...
    4 hours ago
  • Māori housing in state of emergency
    The Government needs to declare a state of emergency for Māori Housing, says Labour’s Māori Development spokesperson and Te Tai Tokerau MP Kelvin Davis. “The extra $3 million a year Māori Housing Network fund will not scratch the surface in… ...
    4 hours ago
  • State house sell off in disarray after provider pulls out
     The Government should cancel its planned sell-off of state houses after the second big community housing provider pulled out leaving the process in disarray, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.  “It is time for the Government to back away from… ...
    5 hours ago
  • Nothing in Budget to help police to solve crime
    The Police Minister has failed to make communities safer with virtually no new money in yesterday’s Budget for police to address the appalling burglary resolution rates, says Labour’s Police spokesperson Stuart Nash.  “It’s a disgrace there’s no money or aspiration… ...
    5 hours ago
  • Blog – Budget 2016: What about ordinary working people?
    Ordinary working New Zealanders don’t fare very well from this Budget. Setting aside the spin from the Government, it contains a lot to be concerned about and a fudging of the numbers. Green Party workplace relations spokesperson Denise Roche For… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    5 hours ago
  • Real wages go backwards for next two years
    New Zealanders’ real wages will fall for the next two years as the cost of living outpaces forecast pay rises, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “New Zealanders have been doing it tough for far too long. They expect… ...
    5 hours ago
  • The Attack on Public Education – by a thousand cuts
    Budget 2016 is another step towards the free public education system being a memory from the past. The Budget freezes the operations grant for schools and does not sufficiently cover the real increase in numbers of students entering the education system.… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    5 hours ago
  • The Attack on Public Education – by a thousand cuts
    Budget 2016 is another step towards the free public education system being a memory from the past. The Budget freezes the operations grant for schools and does not sufficiently cover the real increase in numbers of students entering the education system.… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    5 hours ago
  • The give with one hand – take with the other Budget
    The Minister of Health has pumped out media releases to 20 District Health Boards heralding increases in funding for their regions, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. “But when you add population growth and inflation into the figures you get… ...
    8 hours ago
  • Budget offers no hope of fixing housing crisis
    The Budget’s underwhelming housing measures will give New Zealanders no hope that National is capable of fixing the housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “There isn’t a scrap of an idea to help desperate young Kiwi families into… ...
    9 hours ago
  • How the budget fails new New Zealanders
    Greens co-leader James Shaw was absolutely correct to say the 2016 budget is just papering over the cracks. There’s nothing in this budget to increase wages, address inequal pay for carers or deal with the shocking pay rates and employment… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    22 hours ago
  • Parents will pay more as school budgets frozen
    Parents will pay more for their kids’ education as a result of this year’s Budget after the Government froze operational funding for schools, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “This means schools are effectively going backwards. They will need to… ...
    24 hours ago
  • Sticking Plaster Budget fails the test
    Bill English’s penultimate Budget fails to tackle the structural challenges facing the economy – a housing crisis, rising unemployment, underfunded health and creaking infrastructure, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “This Budget applies a sticking plaster to a compound fracture.… ...
    1 day ago
  • John Key fails middle New Zealand with no fix for housing crisis, more underfunding of health
    Middle New Zealand has again missed out in this year’s Budget with not a single fix for the housing crisis, and health and education woefully underfunded again, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “This Budget is just a patchwork… ...
    1 day ago
  • Labour Bill would back Kiwi jobs
    The Government’s $40 billion of buying power would go towards backing Kiwi businesses and jobs under a Labour Member’s Bill which will be debated by Parliament, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “My Bill – which was pulled from… ...
    1 day ago
  • Julie Anne Genter: My Budget 2016 wish is fairness
    When my parents first visited me in Auckland ten years ago, they remarked on how there were no homeless people on the streets. Coming from Los Angeles, they were used to seeing the impacts of horrendous inequality and a lack… ...
    GreensBy Julie Anne Genter
    1 day ago
  • Steffan Browning: Pesticide reduction and Organic Growth Strategy in Budget 2016
    Pesticide reduction The Budget is an opportunity for the Government to launch a pesticide reduction strategy that multiplies the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) and the Ministry for Primary Industries’ capacity to reassess pesticides and other toxins.  The Agricultural Compounds and… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning
    1 day ago
  • Steffan Browning: Pesticide reduction and Organic Growth Strategy in Budget 2016
    Pesticide reduction The Budget is an opportunity for the Government to launch a pesticide reduction strategy that multiplies the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) and the Ministry for Primary Industries’ capacity to reassess pesticides and other toxins.  The Agricultural Compounds and… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning
    1 day ago
  • Minister won’t fess up on wrong figures
    The Minister of Health was caught out telling porkies in Parliament today when he was asked about the number of people getting access to mental health and addiction services, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. ...
    2 days ago
  • Budget 2016 and our LGBTQI communities
    LGBTI people make up about a tenth of our population, and our communities face a unique set of needs and challenges. These challenges are caused or exacerbated by discrimination, invisibility and barriers to appropriate support. We have a long way… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    2 days ago
  • Budget 2016 and our LGBTQI communities
    LGBTI people make up about a tenth of our population, and our communities face a unique set of needs and challenges. These challenges are caused or exacerbated by discrimination, invisibility and barriers to appropriate support. We have a long way… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    2 days ago
  • Scrambled announcement policy on the hoof
    Paula Bennett’s scrambled desperate announcement that she will pay homeless people to move to the regions is just the latest evidence of the disarray this Government’s housing policy is in, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “This is policy… ...
    2 days ago
  • Police Minister admits resolution rates fall short of expectation
    Police Minister Judith Collins has admitted in Parliament current burglary resolution rates are not meeting the expectations of our communities, says Labour’s Police spokesman Stuart Nash “Out of 284 police stations in New Zealand in 2015, 24 stations recorded zero… ...
    2 days ago
  • Mojo Mathers: A better deal for animals in Budget 2016
    Currently we are failing animals in NZ. On the face of it farmed and domestic animals in this country have strong legal protection from abuse, cruelty and neglect. In reality it seems that only the very worst, most extreme cases… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers
    2 days ago
  • Metiria Turei: What we need from Budget 2016
    Every family deserves a warm decent home.  Everyone believes that. This housing crisis is just the latest consequence of a Government who puts the interests of the few wealthy people above the needs of NZ families.  Families are doing it… ...
    GreensBy Metiria Turei
    2 days ago
  • Dairy exports fall of 11%: Budget action on diversification needed
    Dairy exports have fallen 11 per cent compared to this time last year, a fall of almost $1.5b, showing the Government must take clear action on diversifying the economy in tomorrow’s Budget, says Labour’s Trade and Export Growth spokesperson David… ...
    2 days ago
  • Investors driving families out of homes in South and West Auckland
    Investors cashing in on skyrocketing Auckland house prices are driving families out of homes in South and West Auckland and causing homeownership rates in some of our poorest suburbs to plummet, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “New analysis shows… ...
    2 days ago
  • Budget must deliver on paid parental leave
    Budget 2016 must deliver 26 weeks paid parental leave by April 2018 – anything less will be short-changing families, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “My Bill which is before Parliament this afternoon has majority support and does just that. I… ...
    2 days ago
  • Key’s “brain fart” on tax cuts news to English
    John Key didn’t tell his own Finance Minister he was about to go on radio and announce he wanted $3b of tax cuts, just days after Bill English ruled them out, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “In Parliament today… ...
    3 days ago
  • What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 – A better start for our tamariki
    Ensuring the best start for our tamariki is a priority for me in everything I do. And so in Budget 2016, my first budget as an MP, I looking for the Government to make a real investment in the wellbeing… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    3 days ago
  • What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 – A better start for our tamariki
    Ensuring the best start for our tamariki is a priority for me in everything I do. And so in Budget 2016, my first budget as an MP, I looking for the Government to make a real investment in the wellbeing… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    3 days ago
  • Denise Roche: What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 Pt II
    Aotearoa’s new New Zealanders,  come to our country in vulnerable position: – often away from the culture, communities and families they know, sometimes in neighbourhoods without familiar faces and often encountering barriers to employment. With net migration at 50,000+ a… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    3 days ago
  • Equal Pay and Budget 2016
    The last few years we’ve seen equal pay for women flagged as an undefined risk in the budget. This year we should expect to see this, as well as budgeted money to deliver equal pay to caregivers and funding for,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    3 days ago
  • Equal Pay and Budget 2016
    The last few years we’ve seen equal pay for women flagged as an undefined risk in the budget. This year we should expect to see this, as well as budgeted money to deliver equal pay to caregivers and funding for,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    3 days ago
  • A great Budget would
    A great Budget would embrace the challenge of our polluted rivers and move the money away from justifying the status quo water rules into cleaning up waterways. A great Budget would take the Ministry for the Environment freshwater budget and… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    3 days ago
  • Budget building materials policy backfires
    On the eve of this year’s Budget official figures show Nick Smith’s Budget 2014 centrepiece to reduce the cost of building materials has backfired, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment officials have spent the… ...
    3 days ago
  • Smarter, Better, Cleaner, Stronger
    This Thursday Bill English will deliver his eighth Budget. Will it continue the trend of previous National budgets, making tertiary education less affordable, putting only token funds into innovation, and subsidising polluters? Budgets aren’t what they used to be. Once… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    3 days ago
  • Govt must come clean on tax cuts in Budget
    National is making a mockery of the Budget process by dangling the promise of tax cuts but failing to include them in the Budget, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “National’s tax cut promises have turned into a farce. One… ...
    4 days ago
  • Grant Robertson Pre-Budget Speech
    Today I want to talk about success. As we know success can come in many different forms, from the fact you all made it here at such an early hour on a Monday, for which I am very grateful, to… ...
    4 days ago
  • Budget must deliver for middle New Zealand
    The Government must ensure next week’s Budget stops the squeeze on middle New Zealand and delivers shared prosperity for all New Zealanders, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. The call follows new research commissioned by Labour that shows working… ...
    5 days ago
  • Our housing emergency – why we have to act
    Marama and Metiria at Homes Not Cars launch On Thursday, Metiria Turei announced the Green Party’s plan to start addressing the emergency housing crisis facing our country. Too many people are without homes right now – homeless. It is the… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    6 days ago
  • Will funding boost for sexual violence services go to the right places?
    This week the Government announced $46million for sexual violence services. This announcement was a result of decades of work by advocates and everyone who submitted to the Select Committee inquiry into funding for sexual violence services that I initiated with… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • Will funding boost for sexual violence services go to the right places?
    This week the Government announced $46million for sexual violence services. This announcement was a result of decades of work by advocates and everyone who submitted to the Select Committee inquiry into funding for sexual violence services that I initiated with… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • Denise Roche – What I’m looking for in this year’s Budget
    Two of the things I’ll be looking for in the Budget next week are more funding for refugees and for our arts and culture sector. More funding for refugees I’m a strong supporter of the #DoubleTheQuota campaign and its goals… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Denise Roche – What I’m looking for in this year’s Budget
    Two of the things I’ll be looking for in the Budget next week are more funding for refugees and for our arts and culture sector. More funding for refugees I’m a strong supporter of the #DoubleTheQuota campaign and its goals… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Car rego victims must get a refund
    Motorists who have been overcharged for their car registration should get a refund, says Labour’s Transport spokesperson Sue Moroney.  “Minister Nikki Kaye’s ‘faulty risk’ rating scheme has blown up in her face with over 170 different models of car having… ...
    1 week ago
  • Council statement shows they just don’t get it
    The Auckland Council’s statement today shows they don’t understand the problems created by the urban growth boundary, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.  “I have been the first to defend the Auckland City Council when Bill English has been blaming… ...
    1 week ago
  • Inspecting electronic devices a potential privacy threat
    Labour is expressing concern for New Zealanders’ privacy rights as the Government signals Customs will have the power to inspect electronic devices coming across the border, says Labour’s Customs Spokesperson Rino Tirikatene. “We agree that customs officers should have the… ...
    1 week ago
  • The Price of Water
    This week I hosted a public meeting at EIT in Hawkes Bay to discuss how we might put a price on the commercial use of water, so that water may be valued and treated more sustainably. I invited a… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 week ago

Public service advertisements by The Standard

Current CO2 level in the atmosphere