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‘Dying off’?

Written By: - Date published: 7:07 am, November 16th, 2011 - 116 comments
Categories: accountability, act, election 2011, john banks, john key, national, nz first, Steven Joyce, superannuation, winston peters - Tags:

Winston Peters is suggesting that in the transcript of the PM’s meeting with Banks, John Key made some derogatory remarks about the older New Zealanders that tend to support New Zealand First, along the lines of “not to worry [about Winston's support] they’re dying off”. Slagging off older New Zealanders (ie. the ones that always vote) is a sure way to lose an election.

Could Key really be so clueless? Well yes, when you look at the excuses he’s trotting out – probably.

116 comments on “‘Dying off’?”

  1. Tombstone 1

    Revolting! My great grandfather fought like Hell for this country in WWII. He was shot in the head in Crete, survived despite a serious wound and went on to become a prisoner of war. He returned home and worked bloody hard to build this nation back up to the great country it became known as. Men like Key have brought it to it’s knees through selfish bloody greed and comments like that should be more than enough to see the guy gone. What a sad excuse for a Kiwi. Go to Hell Key!

    • The Baron 1.1

      You realise that there is no quote from Key here, right? This is all based the idle speculation of Winston Peters – he of massiv integrity when it comes to the truth.
      So let me get this straight. This is a posting criticising Key, based on the theories of a proven liar who has a clear motivation for stimulating his base; a person who otherwise has utterly no clue wha was said on that tape, just like e rest of us? Do you think that’s worth publishing Sproit, cos it seems pretty lame and desperate to me.
      What I would be net rested in however is your views on the Green’s illegal attack on Billboards – worse than the Brethren or not, Sprout? Or are you really just a one eyed hypocrite after all?

      • mickysavage 1.1.1

        All Key had to say was “I did not say that” and “here is the transcript”.

        Until he does that he is skewered.  I must admit that I am enjoying watching this.  Time for more popcorn! 

        • The Baron 1.1.1.1

          That is such a lame argument, Greg.
          Example: I heard you told your wife the other night that you want all gingers to be burned at the stake. Now go and prove that I am lying by releasing all the details of that private conversation please – otherwise I assume your a liar.
          Key doesnt have to release ANYTHING to disprove the politically motivated rankings of a proven liar like Winston. I know you dearly want the latter in parliament to prop up Philin, but this strains even your minuscule credibility as a reasoned and considered commenter.

          • mickysavage 1.1.1.1.1

            If you accused me of saying that I would say:

            “I did not say that and would never say such a terrible thing.  I think gingas are wonderful people.”

            Instead the Key conversation went like this:

            Garner: “Do you think you may have offended elderly people or NZ First supporters in any way in what you spoke about with John Banks?”
            Key: “Well I’ve never listened to the tape, and so I can’t recall everything that’s on there. No one’s ever given me a copy of that.”
            Garner: “Would you like to see a transcript?”
            Key: “Nah I’m not bothered about it.”
            Spot the difference?

          • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.2

            Like ms said, all Key needs to do is categorically deny he made those derogatory statements.

            Why doesn’t he?

      • fmacskasy 1.1.2

        “…Green’s illegal attack on Billboards…”?

        The Green Party didn’t orchestrate any such attack.

        It was carried out by individuals, one of whom was a Green Party member.

        That’s kinda like saying that because Pansy Wong misused Pareliament Travel perks, that the National Party as a whole was involved in planning it.

        Doesn’t make sense, does it?

    • burt 1.2

      My great grandfather fought like Hell for this country in WWII

      And it wasn’t so that proven liars like Winston Peters could take secret donations from their big business backers via secret trusts.

    • Rob 1.3

      So did a lot of our grandparents & great grand parents, you don’t have the mortgage on that one dude.

  2. burt 2

    True! But he should never have said it.

  3. mikesh 3

    Matthew Hooten said in Bomber Bradbury’s iPredict show a couple of nights ago that some of Winston’s 2008 support will have died by now, so perhaps it is an idea that is circulating in National Party circles.

    • Matthew Hooton 3.1

      I don’t know if it is “circulating” but its not a new or profound observation that a party that gained its initial support in the 1990s, as a result of the surtax/surcharge, issue from people who were then in their 60s and above has a problem with long-term voter retention 20 years later.

      • mickysavage 3.1.1

        But it is still a disgusting thing to say Matthew, waiting for a group of people to die off for political advantage, doncha think?

        • Lanthanide 3.1.1.1

          Personally I don’t think it’s “distasteful” for a commentator like Matthew to say that in a matter of fact way in a conversation (note: haven’t seen the show itself).

          For John Key to say something along the same lines, presumably in a gleeful or smiley way, is, however.

        • grumpy 3.1.1.2

          Do you reckon it’s worse than Labour wishing for the Mad Butcher to “hurry up and die”?

          • mickysavage 3.1.1.2.1

            Memo from Crosby Textor
            To Grumpy
             
            Subject: way to go boy
             
            Well done with your latest comment.  It is not true but you should never let the truth get in the way of a good attack.  Keep up the good work.

            • chris73 3.1.1.2.1.1

              Well we don’t know what was actually said (although I’m guessing more then a few people probably do) and Winnies only suggesting, yet you and others are assuming its true

              • felix

                Well I’m not assuming it’s true chris, I’m assuming it’s a coincidence that everyone who has heard the tapes seems to be asking the same questions.

                John Key’s emphatic denial is good enough for me, a man’s word is his bond after all.

                I expect he’ll be releasing the recordings any minute now to prove me right.

          • Campbell Larsen 3.1.1.2.2

            Lame Grumpy, Lame.

            I am not a member of the Labour party, and I am not their spokesperson.

            • Rob 3.1.1.2.2.1

              I dont think anyone is saying you are Cambell, nor does anyone care who you are spokesperson for. Just maybe you have learnt some basic life skills about not wishing anyone to be dead.

              • Campbell Larsen

                Gee thanks for the *concern* Rob – I will file it along with the impartial and helpful advice from family health diary /sarc.
                Got to dash, voodoo to do, have some pins to stick into a figurine called, coincidentally, Rob.

            • grumpy 3.1.1.2.2.2

              Seem to remember a few actual Labour MP’s (Darrien Fenton springs to mind) joining in the attack. Good topic for Labour to push, especially as Sir Mad is so universally popular.
              Nats could use the opportunity to highlight Labour’s established attitude to the ill and elderly.

      • burt 3.1.2

        Also it has a problem with retaining voters who can remember Winston’s behaviour in the last few terms he was in government.

  4. Hilary 4

    All this needs to do for Winston is shift 2 or 3% of older people from National to New Zealand First and it could make a big difference to the election. I imagine there is quite a lot of discussion about politics going on in retirement homes today.

  5. I bet over in Crosby Textor HQ there is a meeting going on right now with one agenda item:

    “Feck, what do we do now?” 

    • Rob 5.1

      Greg, I would say not to do to much at all. All anyone has to do is wait for the first combined press presentation where Winston and Phil have to get together and act like they actually know what to do. Geez just imagine it.

  6. Carol 6

    Own goal by Brand Key! I suspect Key’s tea-for-two was aimed at sidelining NZF and shoring up Act, partly by starving Winton of media oxygen. But it has resulted in Winston getting a lot of media space he probably wasn’t expecting.

    There’s an irony in Key’s alleged dismissal of NZF supporters – the old style conservatives – by relegating them to the dustbin of history. In fact, it is NAct and the neoliberal policies and ideas that are the relects of the 1990s, now teetering on the edge of collapse.

    And some of the NZF old conservative values will strike a chord with quite a few conservatives of all ages – retaining state assets for instance.

    • The Baron 6.1

      My god you people are delusional. KEY HASN’T SCORED AN OWN GOAL COS HE DIDN’T SAY THIS. This is all just idle speculation from the proven liar that is Winston Peters, all to help him drum up votes.
      So why would anyone be panicking at all?

      • mickysavage 6.1.1

        Well tell your mate to release the transcript.  

        • Pete George 6.1.1.1

          Should everything said off the record be able to be open slather? For all politicians?

          • felix 6.1.1.1.1

            That’s not how you spell “in front of invited media at a photo op”.

          • Lanthanide 6.1.1.1.2

            Pete, you should watch Campbell Live’s coverage of “was it really private?” that they did last night.

            There was an open door right behind Key. There was a camera man standing in that open door filing Key. Earlier in the exchange, before they were ushered outside, they show a reporter standing in that same spot with a notebook taking notes on what Key and Banks were saying. Clearly some of the reporters would have heard the conversation. Banks would have seen the guy standing there and said nothing.

            According to the crimes act, it’s only a private conversation if you can reasonably expect that it was a private conversation. That is not a reasonable expectation in this case.

            IMO I’d give it 50/50 odds that TV3 will release the tape tonight.

        • The Baron 6.1.1.2

          See above, Greg. that argument is pretty pathetic, even for you.

          • Galeandra 6.1.1.2.1

            Is The Baron understudying for Cap’n Panic Pants? All that block lettering, the hysterical tone….. I’m loving it.

          • mickysavage 6.1.1.2.2

            Key should have said “I said no such thing” but he is skewered because he went down the suppress the news path rather than by fronting and allowing it to be published.

            He has well and truly jumped the shark on this one. 

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.2.3

            Why doesn’t Key just categorically deny that he made those derogatory comments then?

            It would take him like 5 seconds to do.

      • The Voice of Reason 6.1.2

        Key’s failure to handle this competently is the own goal. If he’d just fessed up when the brown stuff first hit the fan, then we’d all have moved on by now. But, instead, he’s fanning the flames by feigning outrage and he has added to the growing perception that he is a liar and a braggart. And probably got NZF back into parliament, which is almost certainly going to mean he (or Goff) will have to form a minority Government on the 26th.

      • Carol 6.1.3

        Whatever Key did or didn’t say, the own goal owes a lot to the way he is handling the discussion of the tape.

      • Hami Shearlie 6.1.4

        Let Key prove he didn’t say derogatory things about older people then! Too scared for the recording to be released. Why? Methinks he doth protest too much!

    • Rob 6.2

      Carol, I am suprised you haven’t link us to the Wiki eplanation of an own goal.

  7. How about this for a quote from the slithery one:

    “I’ve always said that a good hard cold winter and a virulent dose of bird flu would solve the Peters problem.”

    I won’t link to it but it was posted today.

    And he keeps saying that Labour is the nasty party?

    Utterly appalling. 

    • I agree that’s an appalling thing to post. As is deliberately perpetuating things that are made up by people like Winston Peters.

      • Galeandra 7.1.1

        Gosh, Petey, they’re starting to think the same stuff about people of your age. Hide the zimmer.

      • mickysavage 7.1.2

        Memo from Crosby Textor
        To all United Follicle candidates

        Subject:  Meltdown

        CT has for reasons of quality control not required you to post comments on blogsites until now.  But we are in the midst of a major emergency.  Brand Key is under major threat and is facing considerable if not irreversible damage.  Our work in presenting John Key as a generous friendly compassionate PM will be destroyed if the news gets out of what he actually said.

        So please post repeatedly.  If the subject is on what Key said just say “nothing has been proved” but do not commit to releasing the transcripts.  And divert as much attention onto Winston Peters.  Previous work in denigrating his character is still having a residuary beneficial effect. 

        • Pete George 7.1.2.1

          Greg, it would help my cause if National dropped 10 points, I doubt many of those would go to Labour.

          But I think this election circus of raw opportunism is a disgrace. Voters deserve far better from potential leaders of the country and their parties.

          BTW, your repeated CT lines are more than pathetic (you once claimed not to accuse peoplke of that connection, remember?).

          • vto 7.1.2.1.1

            “But I think this election circus of raw opportunism is a disgrace”

            It is not raw opportunism you silly egg, it is bringing out the true nature of two politicians who want to rule the world. Quite different things. The public is entitled to better understand what each of these slimedogs are like.

          • the sprout 7.1.2.1.2

            :lol: you are so full of shit Pete George :lol:
            i pity your deluded self

      • wtl 7.1.3

        I agree that’s an appalling thing to post. As is deliberately perpetuating things that are made up by people like Winston Peters.

        If Key really did say what Peters reckons he did, he deserves to be called out on it. I note that Peters says he is aware of what was said during the conversation, and you have no way of knowing he is lying (unless you have also heard the tape). The way Key has handled this issue is also particularly poor – comparing it the the NoTW scandal and more recently, youth suicide, is appalling.

        Yesterday you were happy to apportion blame to the Greens for the billboard scandal. However, I have not seen you blame Key for this and you continue to defend him. IMO, recent weeks and this episode has just shown how much of a National/John Key fanboy you are, despite being a UF candidate. And I can only conclude that if you were to be elected you would simply be all too happy to support any and all National party policies, despite your rhetoric.

    • Tom Gould 7.2

      These Tories are in ‘blind panic’ mode alright. That smiling cuddly Mr. Key has a mean and nasty streak for all to see, and is clearly prepared to say anything to up the ante or divert attention. Dragging in youth suicide is beyond contempt, especially from a Prime Minister. It was always only a matter of time until the real John Key was revealed to the public, but I never figured it would be now? A week is certainly a long time in politics.

      • Hami Shearlie 7.2.1

        People who watch parliament have always known John Key has a very vicious side to his character. Wait – National have changed their anthem – out with the Feelers song in with…”What a Difference a Day Makes”!!!

  8. Pascal's bookie 8

    Baron. Garner has heard the tape. Most likely others at TV3 have as well. They know for a fact what is on there.

    Now tell me why they are asking the questions they are asking given they know what is on the tape, and that they know it will eventually come out anyway.

  9. vto 9

    Did nothing of similar ilk ever get talked about in Clark and Cullen circles during their time? Not something in private which is much worse than “rich pricks” or “feral inbreds” or “chinless sandal wearers”?

    All just in keeping with the base standards of human conduct …..

    • r0b 9.1

      “rich pricks”

      Didn’t happen, though Cullen called Key [one specific individual] a rich prick.

      “feral inbreds”

      Didn’t happen, though Clark did refer to “fairly feral attitudes”

      or “chinless sandal wearers”?

      Trevor Mallard did say “chinless scarf wearers”, and also apologised for it.

      • vto 9.1.1

        he he, well done r0b, I thought it may have taken you a bit longer than that to correct…

        But I mean – is the same attitude and sentiment that is, according to the claims on here, shown with teatape not an attitude and sentiment that was ever present in Labour govt circles? Eaxmple – if Clark referred to “haters and wreckers” in public, how would she have described them in private?

        • r0b 9.1.1.1

          Not sure she could have said worse in private – silly thing to say!

          All parties say silly things at some point, many of them get caught out for it and punished. At the moment it’s the Nats’ turn. So it goes.

        • felix 9.1.1.2

          Probably in exactly the same terms she used in public. That’s kinda the point.

      • burt 9.1.2

        “rich prick” did happen rOb

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/2329749/Regrets-I-ve-had-a-few-Michael-Cullen-reflects

        MICHAEL CULLEN didn’t mean to call John Key a rich prick. At least, not out loud.

        STOP re-writing history rOb.

        [I see your reading skills are as sharp as ever burt. -- r0b]
        oops! – burt

    • felix 9.2

      The other difference, vto, is that those comments (the actual versions, not the kiwiblog versions you quoted) were made out in the open.

      The issue for Key and Banks is they say things when they think no-one is listening that they’d be scared or embarrassed to say out loud.

      It speaks to matters of honesty, integrity, and character. And even more so now that he won’t cop to it after being caught.

  10. Pascal's bookie 10

    Baron and Pete and whoever else wants to maintain that this is just ‘made up’ or ‘lies’ or whatever should have a read of Hooten’s comment.

    Get with the program guys, ‘What he said is no big deal’

  11. anne 11

    In nz we are taught to respect the elderly,this is something i have installed in my kids,I also had an uncle who was shot in the water by the japanese after jumping out of his plane,another uncle
    fought in the war overseas as well.
    It shows that key has only one thing in mind,win at all costs,even if it goes against majority feeling that they dont like brash or banks or the party act.
    What key and his co-horts have planned for nz is total domination and that is why he likes
    the fpp,key is a closet dictator,with the same personal attributes.
    Given his treatment of the children in poverty,saying ” National standards in all schools,and victims rights,will address that” and his funding cuts of crucial social services when he gives
    fonterra and the meat industry $300grand for promotion and advertising costs and gives sky tv
    $600grand,this came from nz on air,why? who knows tax payers dont need to know,could it
    be for TV7 which the govt is ending and should be another election issue,a great free to air
    channnel for nz,burgled by a capitalist controlling sky leeches that have taken other free to
    air channels,just because they can.
    This election is so crucial for nz on a number of fronts,Labour just have to get there.

  12. felix 12

    Yet another indication that Key doesn’t intrinsically know what’s acceptable behaviour for a human.

    He didn’t know he’d said anything offensive until he was told.

    What a scumbag.

  13. just saying 13

    Still have a bad feeling about how the tea party tape thing is going to play out. This is the guy who chose to talk on Veitch’s radioshow, (before the dust had even settled on that one), even brought up the subject of hot babes he’d like to bang. He made a throat-slitting sign to his opponent on live TV. His audacity is outrageous, and seems to kind of thrill, rather than repel many ordinary people. I think he could turn this into an unfair media witchhunt, against which he stood his ground on principle (what a guy!) the transcript revealing his to being “real” and “telling it how it is” (rather than showing what a two-faced jerk he is). The media would be even more cowed, the opposition will end up looking far worse than Key does. And all the emerging doubts about Key’s integrity now plausibly looking like all part of a concerted campaign against him

    Key beats the odds again. And don’t we all want to be on the winner’s side of the divide, as the shit is so evidently begins to hit the fan.

  14. graeme 14

    John Key is a fucking idiot. Neither of those two idiots even thought to ask whose the bag was, and we trust him to run the country?

    Not me….he had his transrail eyes on last night.

  15. Blue 15

    Further proof that we need to hear the tape, rather than just read a transcript of it.

    If it’s in print, Key can try to spin it, but if we actually hear the arrogant, glib tone in his voice he’s going to be trouble.

  16. hmmmm…………… I wonder if this ‘top-secret’ discussion between the Johns included concern over the numbers of UNDECIDED Epsom voters?

    Wonder if this has anything to do with the effective corporate media ‘BLACKOUT’ on anything to do with my candidacy, the issues that I am raising?

    An ACTION PLAN to help stop ‘white collar’ crime, corruption and ‘corporate welfare’?

    And the fact that as one of the Epsom candidates, I have formally requested that the Director of the Serious Fraud Office equally charge Don Brash and John Banks as fellow former Director of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, for signing Registered Prospectuses which contained untrue statements?

    Don’t you think that one or two of the voting public might be more than a little interested in these matters?

    (Given that in the wealthy Epsom electorate – there are liable to be a few investors who have been ‘bitten’ by ‘white collar criminals’ – like the yet-to-be charged – let alone convicted John Banks and Don Brash?)

    If mainstream corporate media continue to ignore these issues – then I will persistently continue to take this message out to the streets of Remuera, Newmarket and Mt Eden, in new and varied ways to directly reach the voting public.

    Anyone who lives in the Epsom electorate who would like to assist in any way – please contact me:

    Penny Bright
    Independent Candidate for Epsom
    [email deleted]

  17. Ok folks!

    So you can read for yourself what the mainstream media are effectively censoring:

    ACTION PLAN TO PREVENT CORRUPTION – ‘WHITE COLLAR’ CRIME & ‘CORPORATE WELFARE’ IN NZ:

    1. Get our anti-corruption domestic legislative framework in place so NZ can ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption.

    2. Set up an NZ independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the public and PREVENTING corruption.

    3. Change NZ laws to ensure genuine transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central government level.

    4. Legislate for an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Members of Parliament (who make the rules for everyone else).

    5. Make it an offence under the Local Government Act 2002 for NZ Local Government elected representatives to breach their ‘Code of Conduct’.

    6. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government elected representatives.

    7. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Government staff responsible for property and procurement, (including the Ministry of Health), in order to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    8. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government staff, and Directors and staff employed by ‘Council-Controlled Organisations (CCOs) responsible for property and procurement.

    9. Make it a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Government Public Sector, and Local Government (Council), and ‘Council-Controlled Organisation (CCO) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny.

    10. Make it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Government, and Local Government public finances be undertaken to prove that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority. If not – then return public service provision to staff directly employed ‘in-house’ and cut out these private contractors who are effectively dependent on ‘corporate welfare’.

    11. Legislate for a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary, to ensure they are not ‘above the law’.

    12. Ensure that ALL NZ Court proceedings are recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them.

    13. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’, to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    14. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’ at Central Government Ministerial level.

    15. Make it a lawful requirement at NZ Central and Local Government level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine’ period from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector. (Help stop the ‘revolving door’).

    16. Make it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central or Local Government level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships (PPPs).

    17. Make it unlawful for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level.

    18. Make laws to protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local government level and within the judiciary.

    19. Legislate to help stop ‘State Capture’, a form of ‘grand corruption’ arguably endemic in NZ – where vested interests get their way at the ‘policy level’ before legislation is passed which serves their interests.

    Prepared and authorised by Penny Bright, Independent Candidate for Epsom 2011
    ( 86A School Rd, Kingsland. [email deleted])

  18. KJT 18

    Bad news for National.

    The age range of National voters shows that it is mostly the senile who vote for them.

  19. ianmac 19

    One serious factor that must seep through is about Key’s truthfulness.
    What judgement would we make if a PM claims that he couldn’t remember what he said last Friday? That must be a lie. “I can’t remember.”
    If he couldn’t remember then then he would be in serious mental decline. Dangerous.
    If can remember but denies that then he is telling lies.

  20. graeme 20

    19….how could any pm not remember a conversation, thats a few days old.

    its on the same scale as not being able to remember how many transrail shares he has…

    • ianmac 20.1

      A casual voter maybe only taking a passing interest might easily say, “He says he can’t remember!!! That’s what my 8 year-old says when caught abusing his little sister. Really?”

  21. Treetop 21

    When it came to Debbie Gerbich the NZ Herald were more than happy to print the story of her releasing footage to the media. Debbie partly did this out of public interest.

    NZ Herald have a taped conversation of Key and Banks which is of public interest.

    Debbie later went on to take her life and I did not hear ANY politician stick up for how Debbie was treated by the media.

    Key has gagged the media by going to the police. Muldoon used the police when it came to Moyle in November 1976 because Muldoon knew there were two versions to what happened in June 1975 when a 21 year old cop spoke to Moyle in Harris Street Wellington.

    I have asked Key to have a barrister appointed to look into my historical complaint with the police and he sent my request to Power and Power suggested that I go to the IPCA. IPCA is not an option so I languish out here.

  22. You know how people have been joking about how Key would have to massacre babies publicly to dent his popularity.  Well abusing the elderly is almost as bad …

  23. Jackal 23

    Both of my grandfathers were in WW2 and they went through horrendous things. They fought hard for this country against fascism. Some of the things they experienced were truly amazing!

    You won’t hear many from the older generation speak out against authority… because they have respect for the thing they fought for. To see those in power corrupting the very thing their friends died for must be difficult.

    If it’s Peters speculating, why doesn’t Key just say so? Either way my respect for politicians is at an all time low.

    The disrespect shown by Key and Banks towards the older generation is simply unacceptable! Chatting about how it’s good for Nact that the old people are dying is the epitome of nastiness.

    Key is not a leader, he’s an egocentric prick who’s been elevated far beyond his capabilities.

    • chris73 23.1

      Tell you what, how about we wait until we know whats on the tape before we accept as truth what winstonfirst says is on the tape

      • Jackal 23.1.1

        In the mean time we have Peters word against Keys avoidance of the issue. Being that Key is a habitual liar who has very little concept of respect… my monies on Peters actually knowing what was said and telling the truth.

        • chris73 23.1.1.1

          You can take Peters word (because it suits you to) I’d however take someones word that has a little more credibility

          • Zorr 23.1.1.1.1

            You been talking to your courier driver again then? (because I personally consider have Key to have just as much credibility as Winston)

  24. gobsmacked 24

    Statement from National Campaign HQ:

    We totally reject the outrageous suggestion that the Prime Minister talked about people “dying off”.

    After hours of desperate brain-storming, we are finally able to clarify this misunderstanding.

    Mr Key was, in fact, talking about “Dyeing Goff”, a reference to the Labour leader’s hair.

    This puts the matter to rest. Let’s now get back to the real issues facing New Zealand, like Mr Key’s next visit to a kindergarten and a photo-op with teddy bears.

  25. idlegus 25

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5972674/Key-storms-out-of-media-conference

    holy hell, things are not going to plan for national are they? who woulda thought, after all the lies before, this one is sticking.

  26. chris73 27

    So all this means is that National will have to have the support of the Maori Party rather then choosing to have the support of the Maori Party

  27. randal 28

    I am a wrinklie.
    I dont mind.
    what I object to is parvenus like kweewee coming along and selling all the states assets that dont belong to him and to which he never in his working life contributed to.
    That is just pelf.

  28. Brian Gould’s and Jim Tulleys statements on morning report today should go out to all voters.This incident has shown just what a sleazy crafty man this Key is,
    What Labour must now watch is that Crosby-Textor will be working overtime to smear Labour.
    There must certainly be something bad in these or else “Old smile and wave would have released them.

  29. rod 30

    The real John Key has finally stood up.

  30. Carol 31

    The latest RNZ report on Key says he seemed to have tapped into the mood of the public by taking the line that people weren’t interested in the secret tapes. They had comments from members of the public who told Key they were on his side over the issue.

  31. seemed to have tapped into projected the mood of the public

  32. Roy 33

    If Key did diss the elderly, it doesn’t bother me at all. Although both my grandfathers fought at the Somme and I admire them for that, my surviving parent is your bog-standard NZ wrinkly: authoritarian, National-voting, racist, homophobic, illogical, greedy, pocketing super when already very wealthy, reviling the young, hypocritical, and expects to be worshipped and pandered to simply by virtue of age. Newsflash: if you were a stupid asshole before your hair turned grey, you will remain a stupid asshole. Personally I think that once people retire they should be disenfranchised, because it disgusts me that the over-65s are the wealthiest demographic in the country while we have 25% poverty in children. Also, I am genuinely concerned that many old voters are too senile to vote. If children and teenagers are ‘too immature’ to vote, why aren’t the elderly ‘too senile’?
    One of the things I most loathe about the loathsome Key is his pandering to wrinklies while he callously ignores poverty in children and unemployment in youth. The Grey Greedies have a massive sense of entitlement and are quite happy to vote National to serve themselves, with no thought for children or young people. They are contemptible and so is Key.
    Flame away…you won’t change my mind.

  33. jack 34

    I use to be a National supporter till I saw their real agenda the news media will never print. Key has a side that is extremely vicious but the media won’t show it. I believe Key said those things about the elderly and has absolutely no values only a desire for money and power He’s put there by the banks. I really believe it was Key that gave Nicky Haggard Don Brash’s emails because he had the most to gain. Remember those Don Brash comments?? His throat cutting gesture and eyes rolling is in Parliament as a reaction to that man attempting to jump off the balcony. He’s passing bills under urgency more than any other Prime Minister.. I am not a labour fan either. I watch people what they do and Key worries me. The naive public is going to get a SHOCK very soon.

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    I feel the need to contribute to the discourse. This is a new experience for me. Not having an opinion, but expressing it on a popular forum in a public sphere. That’s why I have waited till now and put...
    The Daily Blog | 26-09
  • A dictionary of education terms and definitions, brought to you by the let...
    Free to all TDB readers, please enjoy your very own cut-out-and-keep handy primer of terms that I predict you will need to know over the next three years… Achievement Gap (noun) Synonym for wealth gap. ACT (abstract noun) Intangible. Reported to exist in...
    The Daily Blog | 26-09
  • A Mines Rescue brigadesman’s perspective on the Pike River Mine
    My husband and I lived in Greymouth in 2010, we were a coal mining family.  The day Pike River Mine blew up and the days following changed us profoundly, as it did for so many.  This is a Mines Rescue...
    The Daily Blog | 26-09
  • The Left Triumphant! A Counterfactual History of the Last Twelve Months.
    DID IT REALLY HAVE TO END LIKE THIS? Reading through the commentary threads of the left-wing blogs it is impossible to not feel the anger; the sense of betrayal; the impression of having had something vital ripped from their grasp;...
    The Daily Blog | 26-09
  • GUEST BLOG – Myles Thomas: The media won it!
    Make no mistake, John Key is a clever communicator – reasonable, authoritative and relaxed – but without the media he wouldn’t be PM. Depending on your viewpoint, New Zealand’s news media are either a bunch of Grey Lynn lefties or...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • Not Learning Lessons Past: the West’s Response to IS
    In an earlier posting Ukraine, United Kingdom, Ireland, Scotland, I noted that the first lesson of conflict learned by Robert McNamara was “understand your adversary”. If we have honourable objectives, our first and most important weapon is empathy. In the Vietnam War,...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Dr Jarrod Gilbert – Proof of David Farrar’s deception: my ...
    In the lead up to the election the Minister of Corrections Anne Tolley launched a gang policy. In order to justify the government’s approach she used gang figures that overstated the gang problem. Not by a little bit, but a...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • SPECIAL FEATURE: Stuart Nash – Red To The Rescue?
    SPECIAL FEATURE by Selwyn Manning. IF THE ELECTION RESULT which was dished out to Labour was not enough to incite an immediate leadership primary, then the caucus’ refusal to recognise David Cunliffe as the leader should cement it. Now is...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • Has the one party state crackdown begun already? Left wing NZ activist grou...
    Well known left wing activist social media group, ‘John Key Has Left Down NZ’ has been shut down on Facebook. At 11.40pm last night, Facebook, without any warning shut the group down siting a breach of terms of service as...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • Why Cunliffe should probably just let Nash & Robertson win
    We have to face some very unpalatable home truths. If you are a left wing political person, best you put your vote now to the Green Party, although you’ll have to do that all the while the Greens frantically tell you...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • The graceless win of Kelvin Davis
    The graceless win of Cameron Slater’s mate in the North, Kelvin Davis is difficult to swallow. Here Cameron Slater’s mate in the North is shitting on Hone Harawira by calling Hone all steam, no hangi as Kelvin rubs his ganged up win into...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • So Labour shifted too far to the left?
    So Labour shifted too far to the left?   Here’s the ill-judged view of Josie Pagani in the Pundit “Labour must change”: “At the last election I made myself a heretic when I wrote a column mentioning how unpopular the...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • Uncomplicated Loyalties: Why Cunliffe and the Labour Left Cannot Win
    THE STORY of David Cunliffe’s leadership of the Labour Party has been one of missed opportunities and unforced errors. That he was the only choice available to those who wanted to rid the Labour Party of its neoliberal cuckoos is...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • So we can expect this now?
    So we can expect this now?...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • Can Labour be saved? Why Whaleoil & National won and why we need a new ...
    As the shock of my optimism that NZers would recoil from the real John Key as exposed by Dirty Politics and mass surveillance duplicities wears off, I am surprised to find that the right in NZ are not content with...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • Three more years (up shit creek and paddling hard)
    “If the future is not green, there is no future. If the future is not you, there is no future”. Emma Thompson’s stirring words to the climate marchers in London last Sunday are worth considering in the aftermath of the...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • One Party State
    In years to come this election will be seen as a historic turning point towards one party rule. I don`t mean this literally, absolute single party dictatorship is not in prospect. In the New Zealand context though, one party has...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • No More. The Left Falls.
    . We cannot be beaten down Because we are down already. We can only rise up and if you should beat us down, We will rise again. And again. And again… And when you tire of beating us down, We...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • Hang tight everyone – Marama Davidson campaign reflection
    To the many people who had expressed their overwhelming support for me to enter Parliament this election – thank you. That the Greens held steady in a big loss for progressive politics is an achievement. We are hopeful that after...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • New flag for NZ once Key signs TPPA
    New flag for NZ once Key signs TPPA...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • Reflecting on Elections Past
    There are a number of past elections that can give the left in New Zealand guidance and hope. Two major points though. Major parties require leaders who can bridge the political divide through strength of personality, vision of what it...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – The Reptile Room
    I stress, at the outset, that I’ve got nothing against reptiles. Some of my best friends are reptiles. Some say I am one, but I’m not really. I just emulate that ability to sit, stationary for hours in court, eyes...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • The success of right-wing counter messaging in the election
    One of the reasons National won the election was due to its success in counter messaging – and the way so many media commentators ran with th the right-wing spin. Here are some examples. Dirty Politics The original message was...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • New Flag competition
    New Flag competition...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • No time for self-pity
    After 23 meetings across the largest non-Maori electorate in the country – almost all of which went fantastically, approx 4,500km on the odometer, positive MSM and social media coverage, and polling well, I admit my team and I headed to...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • The 30 second speech that could have saved the Moment of Truth
    As the dust settles and we struggle to understand what the bloody hell happened on Saturday, many point to Kim’s failure at the Moment of Truth to present his evidence. I think that Kim was poorly advised and that politics requires a...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • Internet MANA and the 2014 election
    It was always going to be a hard task for Hone Harawira to hold onto his Te Tai Tokerau seat when the political establishment united in a coalition to defeat him and the chance for Internet MANA to bring more...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • New Zealand Red Cross Responds to Drought in Tonga
    New Zealand Red Cross has sent an aid worker and two desalination units, to turn seawater into safe drinking water in the drought-hit Ha’apai islands of Tonga....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Can you ever tell if an email is real or forged?
    Computer industry veteran Brian Eardley-Wilmot warns that we should never take claims about stolen emails at face value....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • NZ MPs to attend the ASPG Annual Conference in Sydney
    New Zealand MPs to attend the Australasian Study of Parliament Group Annual Conference in Sydney...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Independent Maori seats still needed in Parliament
    “He’s got to be joking!” is the reaction of the president of the Maori Party, Rangimarie Naida Glavish to a call by a former Labour Minister of Maori Affairs, Dover Samuels, for debate by Maori on whether the Maori electorates...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Support for Democratic Rights in Hong Kong
    Rallies supporting the rights for universal suffrage will take place all over New Zealand today and tomorrow...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Trout Mass-Poisoned in New Zealand
    Trout Mass-Poisoned in New Zealand The Graf Boys New Zealand has some of the best trout fishing in the world! Every year thousands of international visitors wade pristine rivers in search of the freshwater game fish....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • New Zealand’s 2014 Hottest Vegetarians Crowned
    With winter gone things are heating up, and things just got even hotter with the crowning of New Zealand’s hottest vegetarians, says animal advocacy group SAFE. Marking World Vegetarian Day, 1st October, director James Napier Robertson and actor...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • A day to remember our duty to look after our senior citizens
    Human Rights Commissioner Dr Jackie Blue says International Day of the Older Person (1 October) is a United Nations day to celebrate our senior citizens, but also acknowledge the need to protect our kaumatua, or older people from abuse and...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Clear data needed on impact of benefit sanctions on children
    A lack of data on benefit sanctions means there is no way of knowing whether welfare reform is helping or harming children, says Child Poverty Action Group....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • The socialist alternative to austerity and war
    Public meeting: After the New Zealand election—the socialist alternative to austerity and war By Tom Peters 29 September 2014...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • New recruits to boost border protection
    Twenty six new recruits began an intensive nine-week training course in Auckland today that will see them graduate as Customs officers in time for the busy summer season....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Dwindling Mallard population shows up ‘pest’ myth
    The pro hunting organisation Fish & Game is researching the causes of the decline of the mallard duck population, upset at the prospect of fewer ducks to kill....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Support for Democratic Rights in Hong Kong
    New Zealanders in Auckland will gather on Wednesday to support the rights for universal suffrage in Hong Kong....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Campbell Live Exclusive Interview with David Cunliffe
    David Cunliffe resigned as leader of the Labour party on Saturday; but he still wants the top job....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Action needed on cycling safety
    “Clearly we aren't doing enough to protect the 1.5 million New Zealanders who ride bikes,” said Mr Morgan....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • World Rivers Day Passes Without A Whimper
    Sunday 28 September was World Rivers Day to celebrate clean, flowing rivers and caring about them. But a recreation-conservation advocacy the Council of Outdoor Recreation Associations of NZ (CORANZ) says the day seems to have slipped by without...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • The Kiwifruit Claim: Q&A
    1. Who is running The Kiwifruit Claim? The Kiwifruit Claim was founded by kiwifruit growers representing well in excess of 10% of the industry. 2. Why are you running this claim? The introduction of Psa into New Zealand had devastating...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Fed Farmers Need to Be Weaned
    The Taxpayers’ Union is calling on Federated Farmers to make a firm commitment to reject any future Government funding, after it was revealed that the lobby group had received over $200,000 of payments in recent years....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Children paying the price for charter school stitch up
    New Zealand children will be paying a high price for a one-seat deal between ACT and National, with an expansion of the beleaguered charter school system says education union NZEI Te Riu Roa....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Hikoi From North Reaches Oil Conference Tomorrow
    Today: The Hikoi opposing Statoil plans for seismic testing and deep sea oil drilling has marched through Dargaville and later be welcomed to Piringatahi Marae, West Harbour,Tamaki Makaurau/Auckland....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Communities Still Count
    The efforts of many organisations to influence the electorate and the political parties they voted for in the lead up to the 2014 Election is over. The voting public has spoken and provided a strong endorsement to the centre-right National...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Eleven social enterprises get ready to take off
    Eleven teams from across the country will take part in the Launchpad, Ākina’s programme to get social enterprise ideas off the ground....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • An open letter to the Prime Minister
    in which Transparency International New Zealand asks the Prime Minister to ensure integrity underpins all work he leads "in the best interests of all New Zealanders"...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Paula Bennett ‘great work’ acknowledged – McVicar
    “Paula Bennett, as Minister of Social Development, has contributed significantly in lowering our crime rate and preventing further victims.” - McVicar...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Key’s Restraint in Propping up ACT Welcomed
    The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming the announcement that ACT MP David Seymour will not be appointed as a Minister....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Only Concession is from the Taxpayer
    Responding to the confidence and supply agreement reached between John Key and Peter Dunne’s United Future Party, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says:...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • A Tent for Any Tenant
    AUT students and Salvation Army Manukau Community Ministries team up to raise awareness, as South Auckland’s housing situation moves from crisis to collapse...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Cycle Safety Panel Draft Report Seeks Comments
    The Cycle Safety Panel Draft Report and Recommendations was published on 25th September 2014 and the panel are inviting comments. Lucinda Rees from NZ School Speeds, the organisation campaigning for consistent speed limits outside schools, is encouraged...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Labour’s Review – Terms of Reference Agreed
    Labour's Review - Terms of Reference Agreed Following a meeting of its ruling New Zealand Council yesterday, Labour has released the terms of reference for the comprehensive review initiated following its 2014 election result. The review will comprise three...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • The final countdown for Kiwi smokers
    There are just two days left until many smokers stubb out their cigarettes for the last time and embark on Stoptober – New Zealand’s first national quit-smoking month....
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • “In A Democracy People Win And People Lose”
    “In A Democracy People Win And People Lose” – Chris Hipkins Labour Senior Whip I would say to all of the caucus and all of the members let's actually hear the arguments from the people who want to be leader,...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Campaign to make Murder of Unborn ”Safe and Legal”
    The IPPF have launched an international campaign through its 161 affiliates including the New Zealand Family Planning Association [NZFPA] to make the murder of the unborn safe and legal and accepted as a human right. This is an acceleration of...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Grant Robertson Labour leader hopeful on TVNZ Q+A
    “Look I think what we need to be is relevant, clear and consistent with New Zealanders about the Labour Party's values,” said Labour leader hopeful Grant Robertson on TVNZ’s Q+A programme....
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Labour Needs to Get House in Order Before Deciding Leader
    Ex Labour party leader and possible repeat contender David Shearer says the Labour Party is going about the post-election period in the wrong way....
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Hate merchants at it again with smear tactics
    “It’s disappointing to see the hate merchants at it again with yet another attempt to smear and silence a health professional who’s doing research they disagree with,” says Ian Powell, Executive Director of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Women’s group heartened by response to promo girls
    The National Council of Women of New Zealand is heartened by the strong response to the inappropriate use of bikini-clad girls at a technology expo....
    Scoop politics | 27-09
  • Owen interviews Jim Anderton, Helen Kelly and Selwyn Pellet
    Lisa Owen interviews Jim Anderton, Helen Kelly and Selwyn Pellet ___________________________________________ The Nation on TV3, 9.30am Saturdays and 10am Sundays. Check us out online , on Facebook or on Twitter . Tell us what you think at thenation@mediaworks.co.nz or text...
    Scoop politics | 27-09
  • Owen interviews Mark Boyd, Jonathan Milne and John Minto
    Lisa Owen interviews Mark Boyd, Jonathan Milne and John Minto ___________________________________________ The Nation on TV3, 9.30am Saturdays and 10am Sundays. Check us out online , on Facebook or on Twitter . Tell us what you think at thenation@mediaworks.co.nz or text...
    Scoop politics | 27-09
  • Prime Time on Labour
    Mike Smith - former General Secretary of the NZ Labour Party Jim McAloon, Assoc Prof, Victoria University of Wellington History Department (currently writing official history of the Labour Party) Rob Salmond, consultant to Labour Leader's office and...
    Scoop politics | 27-09
  • Korero Mai Ki Ahau – Saturday 27 & Sunday 28 September 2014
    Saturday 27 September 2014 | One million people voted for National in last week’s election. Another million didn’t vote at all. In Kia Korero Mai this week, Eru Morgan talks to political commentator Henare Kingi about the figures and what...
    Scoop politics | 26-09
  • On The Nation this weekend: Labour, National, The Media
    This weekend on The Nation… Labour’s had its worst election result in 92 years, so what happens next? We’ll talk to former Labour president Jim Anderton, CTU president Helen Kelly, and tech entrepreneur and past donor Selwyn Pellett about the...
    Scoop politics | 26-09
  • Red Cross, Pacific leaders prepare for cyclone season
    The New Zealand Red Cross Pacific Advisory Group, met for the first time this week, to develop a disaster response plan for the upcoming Pacific cyclone season, which is forecast to be severe....
    Scoop politics | 26-09
  • Teachers support PM’s call for solutions to child poverty
    NZEI Te Riu Roa is pleased to hear that the Prime Minister is calling for new ideas to address child poverty....
    Scoop politics | 26-09
  • First batch of household protection kits arrives in Liberia
    Kits containing protective gear will equip a network of community-based Ebola care centres nationwide...
    Scoop politics | 26-09
  • Dr Paul Hutchison praised for work to reduce child poverty
    The Association of Salaried Medical Specialists (ASMS) has thanked retiring National MP Dr Paul Hutchison for his work to reduce child poverty....
    Scoop politics | 26-09
  • Bag snatch hero deserves a medal – McVicar
    The Justice Spokesman for the Conservative Party, Garth McVicar, is calling for the woman known as the bag-snatch hero to be awarded a medal for bravery....
    Scoop politics | 26-09
  • Police Remembrance Day
    This week, Police staff and others have been wearing the distinctive huia feather-shaped Police Remembrance Pin as they reflect on those who have lost their lives in service to the society they swore to protect. Police Remembrance Day falls on...
    Scoop politics | 26-09
  • Affordable Auckland Attacks Creeping Apartheid
    Affordable Auckland Leader Stephen Berry is disturbed by developments increasing the number of local body regions choosing racially based representation. The Waikato and Bay of Plenty Regional Councils already have Maori wards, while New Plymouth...
    Scoop politics | 26-09
  • Dairy Strategy Proving to be a Disaster
    The intensification of the dairy industry is proving to be a disaster, says SAFE. This comes after the forecast 2015 milk price payout was cut 12% by Fonterra this week. “Last year, the government effectively gave the green light for...
    Scoop politics | 26-09
  • Where Next for the Left?
    26 September 2014 A discussion of the post-election prospects for radicals, facilitated by Fightback. 6pm | Monday 28th September | 19 Tory St [ Facebook event ]...
    Scoop politics | 26-09
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