‘Dying off’?

Written By: - Date published: 7:07 am, November 16th, 2011 - 116 comments
Categories: accountability, act, election 2011, john banks, john key, national, nz first, Steven Joyce, superannuation, winston peters - Tags:

Winston Peters is suggesting that in the transcript of the PM’s meeting with Banks, John Key made some derogatory remarks about the older New Zealanders that tend to support New Zealand First, along the lines of “not to worry [about Winston’s support] they’re dying off”. Slagging off older New Zealanders (ie. the ones that always vote) is a sure way to lose an election.

Could Key really be so clueless? Well yes, when you look at the excuses he’s trotting out – probably.

116 comments on “‘Dying off’? ”

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  1. Tombstone 1
    16 November 2011 at 7:35 am

    Revolting! My great grandfather fought like Hell for this country in WWII. He was shot in the head in Crete, survived despite a serious wound and went on to become a prisoner of war. He returned home and worked bloody hard to build this nation back up to the great country it became known as. Men like Key have brought it to it’s knees through selfish bloody greed and comments like that should be more than enough to see the guy gone. What a sad excuse for a Kiwi. Go to Hell Key!

    • The Baron 1.1
      16 November 2011 at 7:49 am

      You realise that there is no quote from Key here, right? This is all based the idle speculation of Winston Peters – he of massiv integrity when it comes to the truth.
      So let me get this straight. This is a posting criticising Key, based on the theories of a proven liar who has a clear motivation for stimulating his base; a person who otherwise has utterly no clue wha was said on that tape, just like e rest of us? Do you think that’s worth publishing Sproit, cos it seems pretty lame and desperate to me.
      What I would be net rested in however is your views on the Green’s illegal attack on Billboards – worse than the Brethren or not, Sprout? Or are you really just a one eyed hypocrite after all?

      • mickysavage 1.1.1
        16 November 2011 at 7:55 am

        All Key had to say was “I did not say that” and “here is the transcript”.

        Until he does that he is skewered.  I must admit that I am enjoying watching this.  Time for more popcorn! 

        • The Baron 1.1.1.1
          16 November 2011 at 8:04 am

          That is such a lame argument, Greg.
          Example: I heard you told your wife the other night that you want all gingers to be burned at the stake. Now go and prove that I am lying by releasing all the details of that private conversation please – otherwise I assume your a liar.
          Key doesnt have to release ANYTHING to disprove the politically motivated rankings of a proven liar like Winston. I know you dearly want the latter in parliament to prop up Philin, but this strains even your minuscule credibility as a reasoned and considered commenter.

          • mickysavage 1.1.1.1.1
            16 November 2011 at 8:13 am

            If you accused me of saying that I would say:

            “I did not say that and would never say such a terrible thing.  I think gingas are wonderful people.”

            Instead the Key conversation went like this:

            Garner: “Do you think you may have offended elderly people or NZ First supporters in any way in what you spoke about with John Banks?”
            Key: “Well I’ve never listened to the tape, and so I can’t recall everything that’s on there. No one’s ever given me a copy of that.”
            Garner: “Would you like to see a transcript?”
            Key: “Nah I’m not bothered about it.”
            Spot the difference?

          • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.2
            16 November 2011 at 8:14 am

            Like ms said, all Key needs to do is categorically deny he made those derogatory statements.

            Why doesn’t he?

      • fmacskasy 1.1.2
        17 November 2011 at 5:54 am

        “…Green’s illegal attack on Billboards…”?

        The Green Party didn’t orchestrate any such attack.

        It was carried out by individuals, one of whom was a Green Party member.

        That’s kinda like saying that because Pansy Wong misused Pareliament Travel perks, that the National Party as a whole was involved in planning it.

        Doesn’t make sense, does it?

    • burt 1.2
      16 November 2011 at 7:51 am

      My great grandfather fought like Hell for this country in WWII

      And it wasn’t so that proven liars like Winston Peters could take secret donations from their big business backers via secret trusts.

    • Rob 1.3
      16 November 2011 at 10:20 am

      So did a lot of our grandparents & great grand parents, you don’t have the mortgage on that one dude.

  2. burt 2
    16 November 2011 at 7:40 am

    True! But he should never have said it.

  3. mikesh 3
    16 November 2011 at 7:46 am

    Matthew Hooten said in Bomber Bradbury’s iPredict show a couple of nights ago that some of Winston’s 2008 support will have died by now, so perhaps it is an idea that is circulating in National Party circles.

    • Matthew Hooton 3.1
      16 November 2011 at 7:55 am

      I don’t know if it is “circulating” but its not a new or profound observation that a party that gained its initial support in the 1990s, as a result of the surtax/surcharge, issue from people who were then in their 60s and above has a problem with long-term voter retention 20 years later.

      • mickysavage 3.1.1
        16 November 2011 at 7:57 am

        But it is still a disgusting thing to say Matthew, waiting for a group of people to die off for political advantage, doncha think?

        • Lanthanide 3.1.1.1
          16 November 2011 at 8:54 am

          Personally I don’t think it’s “distasteful” for a commentator like Matthew to say that in a matter of fact way in a conversation (note: haven’t seen the show itself).

          For John Key to say something along the same lines, presumably in a gleeful or smiley way, is, however.

        • grumpy 3.1.1.2
          16 November 2011 at 9:41 am

          Do you reckon it’s worse than Labour wishing for the Mad Butcher to “hurry up and die”?

          • mickysavage 3.1.1.2.1
            16 November 2011 at 9:57 am

            Memo from Crosby Textor
            To Grumpy
             
            Subject: way to go boy
             
            Well done with your latest comment.  It is not true but you should never let the truth get in the way of a good attack.  Keep up the good work.

            • chris73 3.1.1.2.1.1
              16 November 2011 at 11:26 am

              Well we don’t know what was actually said (although I’m guessing more then a few people probably do) and Winnies only suggesting, yet you and others are assuming its true

              • felix …
                16 November 2011 at 11:38 am

                Well I’m not assuming it’s true chris, I’m assuming it’s a coincidence that everyone who has heard the tapes seems to be asking the same questions.

                John Key’s emphatic denial is good enough for me, a man’s word is his bond after all.

                I expect he’ll be releasing the recordings any minute now to prove me right.

          • Campbell Larsen 3.1.1.2.2
            16 November 2011 at 10:05 am

            Lame Grumpy, Lame.

            I am not a member of the Labour party, and I am not their spokesperson.

            • Rob 3.1.1.2.2.1
              16 November 2011 at 10:08 am

              I dont think anyone is saying you are Cambell, nor does anyone care who you are spokesperson for. Just maybe you have learnt some basic life skills about not wishing anyone to be dead.

              • Campbell Larsen …
                16 November 2011 at 10:20 am

                Gee thanks for the *concern* Rob – I will file it along with the impartial and helpful advice from family health diary /sarc.
                Got to dash, voodoo to do, have some pins to stick into a figurine called, coincidentally, Rob.

            • grumpy 3.1.1.2.2.2
              16 November 2011 at 10:12 am

              Seem to remember a few actual Labour MP’s (Darrien Fenton springs to mind) joining in the attack. Good topic for Labour to push, especially as Sir Mad is so universally popular.
              Nats could use the opportunity to highlight Labour’s established attitude to the ill and elderly.

      • burt 3.1.2
        16 November 2011 at 8:00 am

        Also it has a problem with retaining voters who can remember Winston’s behaviour in the last few terms he was in government.

  4. Hilary 4
    16 November 2011 at 7:47 am

    All this needs to do for Winston is shift 2 or 3% of older people from National to New Zealand First and it could make a big difference to the election. I imagine there is quite a lot of discussion about politics going on in retirement homes today.

  5. mickysavage 5
    16 November 2011 at 7:53 am

    I bet over in Crosby Textor HQ there is a meeting going on right now with one agenda item:

    “Feck, what do we do now?” 

    • Rob 5.1
      16 November 2011 at 10:34 am

      Greg, I would say not to do to much at all. All anyone has to do is wait for the first combined press presentation where Winston and Phil have to get together and act like they actually know what to do. Geez just imagine it.

  6. Carol 6
    16 November 2011 at 7:57 am

    Own goal by Brand Key! I suspect Key’s tea-for-two was aimed at sidelining NZF and shoring up Act, partly by starving Winton of media oxygen. But it has resulted in Winston getting a lot of media space he probably wasn’t expecting.

    There’s an irony in Key’s alleged dismissal of NZF supporters – the old style conservatives – by relegating them to the dustbin of history. In fact, it is NAct and the neoliberal policies and ideas that are the relects of the 1990s, now teetering on the edge of collapse.

    And some of the NZF old conservative values will strike a chord with quite a few conservatives of all ages – retaining state assets for instance.

    • The Baron 6.1
      16 November 2011 at 8:06 am

      My god you people are delusional. KEY HASN’T SCORED AN OWN GOAL COS HE DIDN’T SAY THIS. This is all just idle speculation from the proven liar that is Winston Peters, all to help him drum up votes.
      So why would anyone be panicking at all?

      • mickysavage 6.1.1
        16 November 2011 at 8:07 am

        Well tell your mate to release the transcript.  

        • Pete George 6.1.1.1
          16 November 2011 at 8:10 am

          Should everything said off the record be able to be open slather? For all politicians?

          • felix 6.1.1.1.1
            16 November 2011 at 8:35 am

            That’s not how you spell “in front of invited media at a photo op”.

          • Lanthanide 6.1.1.1.2
            16 November 2011 at 8:57 am

            Pete, you should watch Campbell Live’s coverage of “was it really private?” that they did last night.

            There was an open door right behind Key. There was a camera man standing in that open door filing Key. Earlier in the exchange, before they were ushered outside, they show a reporter standing in that same spot with a notebook taking notes on what Key and Banks were saying. Clearly some of the reporters would have heard the conversation. Banks would have seen the guy standing there and said nothing.

            According to the crimes act, it’s only a private conversation if you can reasonably expect that it was a private conversation. That is not a reasonable expectation in this case.

            IMO I’d give it 50/50 odds that TV3 will release the tape tonight.

        • The Baron 6.1.1.2
          16 November 2011 at 8:11 am

          See above, Greg. that argument is pretty pathetic, even for you.

          • Galeandra 6.1.1.2.1
            16 November 2011 at 8:16 am

            Is The Baron understudying for Cap’n Panic Pants? All that block lettering, the hysterical tone….. I’m loving it.

          • mickysavage 6.1.1.2.2
            16 November 2011 at 8:17 am

            Key should have said “I said no such thing” but he is skewered because he went down the suppress the news path rather than by fronting and allowing it to be published.

            He has well and truly jumped the shark on this one. 

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.2.3
            16 November 2011 at 8:21 am

            Why doesn’t Key just categorically deny that he made those derogatory comments then?

            It would take him like 5 seconds to do.

      • The Voice of Reason 6.1.2
        16 November 2011 at 8:14 am

        Key’s failure to handle this competently is the own goal. If he’d just fessed up when the brown stuff first hit the fan, then we’d all have moved on by now. But, instead, he’s fanning the flames by feigning outrage and he has added to the growing perception that he is a liar and a braggart. And probably got NZF back into parliament, which is almost certainly going to mean he (or Goff) will have to form a minority Government on the 26th.

      • Carol 6.1.3
        16 November 2011 at 8:18 am

        Whatever Key did or didn’t say, the own goal owes a lot to the way he is handling the discussion of the tape.

      • Hami Shearlie 6.1.4
        16 November 2011 at 9:07 am

        Let Key prove he didn’t say derogatory things about older people then! Too scared for the recording to be released. Why? Methinks he doth protest too much!

    • Rob 6.2
      16 November 2011 at 10:18 am

      Carol, I am suprised you haven’t link us to the Wiki eplanation of an own goal.

  7. mickysavage 7
    16 November 2011 at 8:06 am

    How about this for a quote from the slithery one:

    “I’ve always said that a good hard cold winter and a virulent dose of bird flu would solve the Peters problem.”

    I won’t link to it but it was posted today.

    And he keeps saying that Labour is the nasty party?

    Utterly appalling. 

    • Pete George 7.1
      16 November 2011 at 8:12 am

      I agree that’s an appalling thing to post. As is deliberately perpetuating things that are made up by people like Winston Peters.

      • Galeandra 7.1.1
        16 November 2011 at 8:18 am

        Gosh, Petey, they’re starting to think the same stuff about people of your age. Hide the zimmer.

      • mickysavage 7.1.2
        16 November 2011 at 8:22 am

        Memo from Crosby Textor
        To all United Follicle candidates

        Subject:  Meltdown

        CT has for reasons of quality control not required you to post comments on blogsites until now.  But we are in the midst of a major emergency.  Brand Key is under major threat and is facing considerable if not irreversible damage.  Our work in presenting John Key as a generous friendly compassionate PM will be destroyed if the news gets out of what he actually said.

        So please post repeatedly.  If the subject is on what Key said just say “nothing has been proved” but do not commit to releasing the transcripts.  And divert as much attention onto Winston Peters.  Previous work in denigrating his character is still having a residuary beneficial effect. 

        • Pete George 7.1.2.1
          16 November 2011 at 8:27 am

          Greg, it would help my cause if National dropped 10 points, I doubt many of those would go to Labour.

          But I think this election circus of raw opportunism is a disgrace. Voters deserve far better from potential leaders of the country and their parties.

          BTW, your repeated CT lines are more than pathetic (you once claimed not to accuse peoplke of that connection, remember?).

          • vto 7.1.2.1.1
            16 November 2011 at 8:36 am

            “But I think this election circus of raw opportunism is a disgrace”

            It is not raw opportunism you silly egg, it is bringing out the true nature of two politicians who want to rule the world. Quite different things. The public is entitled to better understand what each of these slimedogs are like.

          • the sprout 7.1.2.1.2
            16 November 2011 at 11:01 am

            😆 you are so full of shit Pete George 😆
            i pity your deluded self

      • wtl 7.1.3
        16 November 2011 at 1:48 pm

        I agree that’s an appalling thing to post. As is deliberately perpetuating things that are made up by people like Winston Peters.

        If Key really did say what Peters reckons he did, he deserves to be called out on it. I note that Peters says he is aware of what was said during the conversation, and you have no way of knowing he is lying (unless you have also heard the tape). The way Key has handled this issue is also particularly poor – comparing it the the NoTW scandal and more recently, youth suicide, is appalling.

        Yesterday you were happy to apportion blame to the Greens for the billboard scandal. However, I have not seen you blame Key for this and you continue to defend him. IMO, recent weeks and this episode has just shown how much of a National/John Key fanboy you are, despite being a UF candidate. And I can only conclude that if you were to be elected you would simply be all too happy to support any and all National party policies, despite your rhetoric.

    • Tom Gould 7.2
      16 November 2011 at 8:27 am

      These Tories are in ‘blind panic’ mode alright. That smiling cuddly Mr. Key has a mean and nasty streak for all to see, and is clearly prepared to say anything to up the ante or divert attention. Dragging in youth suicide is beyond contempt, especially from a Prime Minister. It was always only a matter of time until the real John Key was revealed to the public, but I never figured it would be now? A week is certainly a long time in politics.

      • Hami Shearlie 7.2.1
        16 November 2011 at 9:13 am

        People who watch parliament have always known John Key has a very vicious side to his character. Wait – National have changed their anthem – out with the Feelers song in with…”What a Difference a Day Makes”!!!

  8. Pascal's bookie 8
    16 November 2011 at 8:17 am

    Baron. Garner has heard the tape. Most likely others at TV3 have as well. They know for a fact what is on there.

    Now tell me why they are asking the questions they are asking given they know what is on the tape, and that they know it will eventually come out anyway.

  9. vto 9
    16 November 2011 at 8:31 am

    Did nothing of similar ilk ever get talked about in Clark and Cullen circles during their time? Not something in private which is much worse than “rich pricks” or “feral inbreds” or “chinless sandal wearers”?

    All just in keeping with the base standards of human conduct …..

    • r0b 9.1
      16 November 2011 at 8:39 am

      “rich pricks”

      Didn’t happen, though Cullen called Key [one specific individual] a rich prick.

      “feral inbreds”

      Didn’t happen, though Clark did refer to “fairly feral attitudes”

      or “chinless sandal wearers”?

      Trevor Mallard did say “chinless scarf wearers”, and also apologised for it.

      • vto 9.1.1
        16 November 2011 at 8:45 am

        he he, well done r0b, I thought it may have taken you a bit longer than that to correct…

        But I mean – is the same attitude and sentiment that is, according to the claims on here, shown with teatape not an attitude and sentiment that was ever present in Labour govt circles? Eaxmple – if Clark referred to “haters and wreckers” in public, how would she have described them in private?

        • r0b 9.1.1.1
          16 November 2011 at 8:51 am

          Not sure she could have said worse in private – silly thing to say!

          All parties say silly things at some point, many of them get caught out for it and punished. At the moment it’s the Nats’ turn. So it goes.

        • felix 9.1.1.2
          16 November 2011 at 8:51 am

          Probably in exactly the same terms she used in public. That’s kinda the point.

      • burt 9.1.2
        16 November 2011 at 8:52 am

        “rich prick” did happen rOb

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/2329749/Regrets-I-ve-had-a-few-Michael-Cullen-reflects

        MICHAEL CULLEN didn’t mean to call John Key a rich prick. At least, not out loud.

        STOP re-writing history rOb.

        [I see your reading skills are as sharp as ever burt. — r0b]
        oops! – burt

    • felix 9.2
      16 November 2011 at 8:50 am

      The other difference, vto, is that those comments (the actual versions, not the kiwiblog versions you quoted) were made out in the open.

      The issue for Key and Banks is they say things when they think no-one is listening that they’d be scared or embarrassed to say out loud.

      It speaks to matters of honesty, integrity, and character. And even more so now that he won’t cop to it after being caught.

  10. Pascal's bookie 10
    16 November 2011 at 8:33 am

    Baron and Pete and whoever else wants to maintain that this is just ‘made up’ or ‘lies’ or whatever should have a read of Hooten’s comment.

    Get with the program guys, ‘What he said is no big deal’

  11. anne 11
    16 November 2011 at 8:34 am

    In nz we are taught to respect the elderly,this is something i have installed in my kids,I also had an uncle who was shot in the water by the japanese after jumping out of his plane,another uncle
    fought in the war overseas as well.
    It shows that key has only one thing in mind,win at all costs,even if it goes against majority feeling that they dont like brash or banks or the party act.
    What key and his co-horts have planned for nz is total domination and that is why he likes
    the fpp,key is a closet dictator,with the same personal attributes.
    Given his treatment of the children in poverty,saying ” National standards in all schools,and victims rights,will address that” and his funding cuts of crucial social services when he gives
    fonterra and the meat industry $300grand for promotion and advertising costs and gives sky tv
    $600grand,this came from nz on air,why? who knows tax payers dont need to know,could it
    be for TV7 which the govt is ending and should be another election issue,a great free to air
    channnel for nz,burgled by a capitalist controlling sky leeches that have taken other free to
    air channels,just because they can.
    This election is so crucial for nz on a number of fronts,Labour just have to get there.

  12. felix 12
    16 November 2011 at 8:44 am

    Yet another indication that Key doesn’t intrinsically know what’s acceptable behaviour for a human.

    He didn’t know he’d said anything offensive until he was told.

    What a scumbag.

  13. just saying 13
    16 November 2011 at 8:51 am

    Still have a bad feeling about how the tea party tape thing is going to play out. This is the guy who chose to talk on Veitch’s radioshow, (before the dust had even settled on that one), even brought up the subject of hot babes he’d like to bang. He made a throat-slitting sign to his opponent on live TV. His audacity is outrageous, and seems to kind of thrill, rather than repel many ordinary people. I think he could turn this into an unfair media witchhunt, against which he stood his ground on principle (what a guy!) the transcript revealing his to being “real” and “telling it how it is” (rather than showing what a two-faced jerk he is). The media would be even more cowed, the opposition will end up looking far worse than Key does. And all the emerging doubts about Key’s integrity now plausibly looking like all part of a concerted campaign against him

    Key beats the odds again. And don’t we all want to be on the winner’s side of the divide, as the shit is so evidently begins to hit the fan.

  14. graeme 14
    16 November 2011 at 9:11 am

    John Key is a fucking idiot. Neither of those two idiots even thought to ask whose the bag was, and we trust him to run the country?

    Not me….he had his transrail eyes on last night.

  15. Blue 15
    16 November 2011 at 9:16 am

    Further proof that we need to hear the tape, rather than just read a transcript of it.

    If it’s in print, Key can try to spin it, but if we actually hear the arrogant, glib tone in his voice he’s going to be trouble.

  16. Penny Bright 16
    16 November 2011 at 9:24 am

    hmmmm…………… I wonder if this ‘top-secret’ discussion between the Johns included concern over the numbers of UNDECIDED Epsom voters?

    Wonder if this has anything to do with the effective corporate media ‘BLACKOUT’ on anything to do with my candidacy, the issues that I am raising?

    An ACTION PLAN to help stop ‘white collar’ crime, corruption and ‘corporate welfare’?

    And the fact that as one of the Epsom candidates, I have formally requested that the Director of the Serious Fraud Office equally charge Don Brash and John Banks as fellow former Director of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, for signing Registered Prospectuses which contained untrue statements?

    Don’t you think that one or two of the voting public might be more than a little interested in these matters?

    (Given that in the wealthy Epsom electorate – there are liable to be a few investors who have been ‘bitten’ by ‘white collar criminals’ – like the yet-to-be charged – let alone convicted John Banks and Don Brash?)

    If mainstream corporate media continue to ignore these issues – then I will persistently continue to take this message out to the streets of Remuera, Newmarket and Mt Eden, in new and varied ways to directly reach the voting public.

    Anyone who lives in the Epsom electorate who would like to assist in any way – please contact me:

    Penny Bright
    Independent Candidate for Epsom
    [email deleted]

  17. Penny Bright 17
    16 November 2011 at 9:31 am

    Ok folks!

    So you can read for yourself what the mainstream media are effectively censoring:

    ACTION PLAN TO PREVENT CORRUPTION – ‘WHITE COLLAR’ CRIME & ‘CORPORATE WELFARE’ IN NZ:

    1. Get our anti-corruption domestic legislative framework in place so NZ can ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption.

    2. Set up an NZ independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the public and PREVENTING corruption.

    3. Change NZ laws to ensure genuine transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central government level.

    4. Legislate for an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Members of Parliament (who make the rules for everyone else).

    5. Make it an offence under the Local Government Act 2002 for NZ Local Government elected representatives to breach their ‘Code of Conduct’.

    6. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government elected representatives.

    7. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Government staff responsible for property and procurement, (including the Ministry of Health), in order to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    8. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government staff, and Directors and staff employed by ‘Council-Controlled Organisations (CCOs) responsible for property and procurement.

    9. Make it a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Government Public Sector, and Local Government (Council), and ‘Council-Controlled Organisation (CCO) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny.

    10. Make it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Government, and Local Government public finances be undertaken to prove that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority. If not – then return public service provision to staff directly employed ‘in-house’ and cut out these private contractors who are effectively dependent on ‘corporate welfare’.

    11. Legislate for a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary, to ensure they are not ‘above the law’.

    12. Ensure that ALL NZ Court proceedings are recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them.

    13. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’, to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    14. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’ at Central Government Ministerial level.

    15. Make it a lawful requirement at NZ Central and Local Government level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine’ period from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector. (Help stop the ‘revolving door’).

    16. Make it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central or Local Government level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships (PPPs).

    17. Make it unlawful for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level.

    18. Make laws to protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local government level and within the judiciary.

    19. Legislate to help stop ‘State Capture’, a form of ‘grand corruption’ arguably endemic in NZ – where vested interests get their way at the ‘policy level’ before legislation is passed which serves their interests.

    Prepared and authorised by Penny Bright, Independent Candidate for Epsom 2011
    ( 86A School Rd, Kingsland. [email deleted])

  18. KJT 18
    16 November 2011 at 9:32 am

    Bad news for National.

    The age range of National voters shows that it is mostly the senile who vote for them.

  19. ianmac 19
    16 November 2011 at 9:39 am

    One serious factor that must seep through is about Key’s truthfulness.
    What judgement would we make if a PM claims that he couldn’t remember what he said last Friday? That must be a lie. “I can’t remember.”
    If he couldn’t remember then then he would be in serious mental decline. Dangerous.
    If can remember but denies that then he is telling lies.

  20. graeme 20
    16 November 2011 at 9:45 am

    19….how could any pm not remember a conversation, thats a few days old.

    its on the same scale as not being able to remember how many transrail shares he has…

    • ianmac 20.1
      16 November 2011 at 9:57 am

      A casual voter maybe only taking a passing interest might easily say, “He says he can’t remember!!! That’s what my 8 year-old says when caught abusing his little sister. Really?”

  21. Treetop 21
    16 November 2011 at 9:57 am

    When it came to Debbie Gerbich the NZ Herald were more than happy to print the story of her releasing footage to the media. Debbie partly did this out of public interest.

    NZ Herald have a taped conversation of Key and Banks which is of public interest.

    Debbie later went on to take her life and I did not hear ANY politician stick up for how Debbie was treated by the media.

    Key has gagged the media by going to the police. Muldoon used the police when it came to Moyle in November 1976 because Muldoon knew there were two versions to what happened in June 1975 when a 21 year old cop spoke to Moyle in Harris Street Wellington.

    I have asked Key to have a barrister appointed to look into my historical complaint with the police and he sent my request to Power and Power suggested that I go to the IPCA. IPCA is not an option so I languish out here.

  22. mickysavage 22
    16 November 2011 at 10:02 am

    You know how people have been joking about how Key would have to massacre babies publicly to dent his popularity.  Well abusing the elderly is almost as bad …

  23. Jackal 23
    16 November 2011 at 10:08 am

    Both of my grandfathers were in WW2 and they went through horrendous things. They fought hard for this country against fascism. Some of the things they experienced were truly amazing!

    You won’t hear many from the older generation speak out against authority… because they have respect for the thing they fought for. To see those in power corrupting the very thing their friends died for must be difficult.

    If it’s Peters speculating, why doesn’t Key just say so? Either way my respect for politicians is at an all time low.

    The disrespect shown by Key and Banks towards the older generation is simply unacceptable! Chatting about how it’s good for Nact that the old people are dying is the epitome of nastiness.

    Key is not a leader, he’s an egocentric prick who’s been elevated far beyond his capabilities.

    • chris73 23.1
      16 November 2011 at 11:33 am

      Tell you what, how about we wait until we know whats on the tape before we accept as truth what winstonfirst says is on the tape

      • Jackal 23.1.1
        16 November 2011 at 11:50 am

        In the mean time we have Peters word against Keys avoidance of the issue. Being that Key is a habitual liar who has very little concept of respect… my monies on Peters actually knowing what was said and telling the truth.

        • chris73 23.1.1.1
          16 November 2011 at 11:54 am

          You can take Peters word (because it suits you to) I’d however take someones word that has a little more credibility

          • Zorr 23.1.1.1.1
            16 November 2011 at 1:18 pm

            You been talking to your courier driver again then? (because I personally consider have Key to have just as much credibility as Winston)

  24. gobsmacked 24
    16 November 2011 at 10:13 am

    Statement from National Campaign HQ:

    We totally reject the outrageous suggestion that the Prime Minister talked about people “dying off”.

    After hours of desperate brain-storming, we are finally able to clarify this misunderstanding.

    Mr Key was, in fact, talking about “Dyeing Goff”, a reference to the Labour leader’s hair.

    This puts the matter to rest. Let’s now get back to the real issues facing New Zealand, like Mr Key’s next visit to a kindergarten and a photo-op with teddy bears.

  25. idlegus 25
    16 November 2011 at 11:58 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5972674/Key-storms-out-of-media-conference

    holy hell, things are not going to plan for national are they? who woulda thought, after all the lies before, this one is sticking.

  27. chris73 27
    16 November 2011 at 1:20 pm

    So all this means is that National will have to have the support of the Maori Party rather then choosing to have the support of the Maori Party

  28. randal 28
    16 November 2011 at 1:33 pm

    I am a wrinklie.
    I dont mind.
    what I object to is parvenus like kweewee coming along and selling all the states assets that dont belong to him and to which he never in his working life contributed to.
    That is just pelf.

  29. The Pink Postman 29
    16 November 2011 at 3:02 pm

    Brian Gould’s and Jim Tulleys statements on morning report today should go out to all voters.This incident has shown just what a sleazy crafty man this Key is,
    What Labour must now watch is that Crosby-Textor will be working overtime to smear Labour.
    There must certainly be something bad in these or else “Old smile and wave would have released them.

  30. rod 30
    16 November 2011 at 5:02 pm

    The real John Key has finally stood up.

  31. Carol 31
    16 November 2011 at 5:23 pm

    The latest RNZ report on Key says he seemed to have tapped into the mood of the public by taking the line that people weren’t interested in the secret tapes. They had comments from members of the public who told Key they were on his side over the issue.

  32. the sprout 32
    16 November 2011 at 5:26 pm

    seemed to have tapped into projected the mood of the public

  33. Roy 33
    17 November 2011 at 9:35 am

    If Key did diss the elderly, it doesn’t bother me at all. Although both my grandfathers fought at the Somme and I admire them for that, my surviving parent is your bog-standard NZ wrinkly: authoritarian, National-voting, racist, homophobic, illogical, greedy, pocketing super when already very wealthy, reviling the young, hypocritical, and expects to be worshipped and pandered to simply by virtue of age. Newsflash: if you were a stupid asshole before your hair turned grey, you will remain a stupid asshole. Personally I think that once people retire they should be disenfranchised, because it disgusts me that the over-65s are the wealthiest demographic in the country while we have 25% poverty in children. Also, I am genuinely concerned that many old voters are too senile to vote. If children and teenagers are ‘too immature’ to vote, why aren’t the elderly ‘too senile’?
    One of the things I most loathe about the loathsome Key is his pandering to wrinklies while he callously ignores poverty in children and unemployment in youth. The Grey Greedies have a massive sense of entitlement and are quite happy to vote National to serve themselves, with no thought for children or young people. They are contemptible and so is Key.
    Flame away…you won’t change my mind.

  34. jack 34
    29 November 2011 at 8:53 am

    I use to be a National supporter till I saw their real agenda the news media will never print. Key has a side that is extremely vicious but the media won’t show it. I believe Key said those things about the elderly and has absolutely no values only a desire for money and power He’s put there by the banks. I really believe it was Key that gave Nicky Haggard Don Brash’s emails because he had the most to gain. Remember those Don Brash comments?? His throat cutting gesture and eyes rolling is in Parliament as a reaction to that man attempting to jump off the balcony. He’s passing bills under urgency more than any other Prime Minister.. I am not a labour fan either. I watch people what they do and Key worries me. The naive public is going to get a SHOCK very soon.

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