Look, I can’t make there be a perfect political party for you, sorry I can’t. All I can do is present the choices you and I face. If that’s not good enough for you, if you would rather aid the Right by default. That’s your choice.

The Workers Party in particular claims an affinity with the working class, but its candidates were mostly teachers and students. It didn’t have any support amongst the working class, and its total votes prove this. RAM is politically confused and doesn’t really count as a left-wing party in my view. Similarly, while it talks about the “grass-roots” there is no evidence of worker support for RAM.

I don’t agree that a vote for these parties is a wasted vote, people should vote for who they believe in. That is the point of a democracy. A dictatorship occurs when you always vote for the winner.

However, I do agree that these parties spend more time criticising others than doing something constructive. There is so much internecine conflict between the various factions on the left which most workers think is completely irrelevant. While debate on the left is important, people should be free to criticise and the Labour Party does deserve a lot of criticism, it seems to me that a lot of people on the left would rather debate ideologies than do something practical for the working class.

Voting in an election is about getting your voice heard. Political parties are a vehicle for your voice. No party will perfectly equate to your voice, so select the one that most closely adheres to your views but also consider whether that party is going to get into Parliament. If it isn’t you will have no voice at all, the same as if you hadn’t voted at all. I would rather have my voice imperfect heard than not heard at all.

The basic choice is this:
- a person has political views
- no party will have exactly the same views
- there is a trade-off to be made between a party that closely matches a person’s views and one that will be able to have an influence on the decisions that get made
- where the optimal point in that trade-off is will vary from person to person, Most people opt for the major party on their side of the left-right divide, others go for a minor party that better represents their views, some go for a mirco party that represents their views even better. The last end up having no influence over who gets to make the decisions in Parliament.

But unfortunately you don’t have the realistic option of having your views represented in parliament at present. Presently, your realistic options are having a Labour led gov’t or a National one.

You can choose to not make the perfect the enemy of the good, and vote Labour to keep the National party out, or you can decide to help the National party to win by casting an irrelevant vote. This may heighten the contradictions and possibly people will start to vote communist, but they’ve not done so yet in any great numbers.

Oliver. I’m not a Labour anything. I’m simply saying if a few votes had gone to Labour rather than other left parties, we would have one more left seat and a weaker right-wing government. That’s a good thing in my books.

You can encourage leftwingers to waste their votes on RAM etc if you like, I will continue to encourage them to vote for the party that will be in parliament that most represents their political views

“Like say, a well known folk singer, who is also a lifelong union activist and has written a book, and articles for both the left-wing press and mainstream media, someone Audrey Young described as “a great Wellington identity of the Left’?

You’re talking about Don Franks, who I have great respect for and really like. He would never win Wellington Central, unfortunately. He has good support among the left community but isn’t well enough known and trusted outside it. But that doesn’t mean a strong left candidate couldn’t do the same in another electorate.

No, no, no. I am not saying that whatsoever. I’m saying they have stretched themselves so far and waded into so many issues that if anything their core principles are being ignored. And that’s what is keeping them back from getting a greater share of the vote. Go back to their core principles stop wanting to have a say in anything. That will make them a greater party and something I think would garner more votes.

You don’t seem to understand our core principles. Finite planet. Society designed for infinite growth and minimal social interaction. Both ecological reform and social reform are necessary because they are both part of the same problem of waste-driven capitalism. You talk about “communists” (read: people concerned with social issues and reform) as if they’re not inherently connected to the changes we need to make to eliminate waste- but they are. Socialist democrats want to internalise social costs for businesses, so that wages include the costs of basic healthcare and food, for example. So that we don’t poison ourselves with what we eat. The more costs we internalise into business- social or environmental, as if the two were completely distinct*- the more business is forced to face the reality that our culture of obsolescence is in crisis.

Essentially, you might say that Green economics could ruin the economy. I say it just exposes the existing flaws for all to see, and starts gently nudging back in a safer direction. Would it cost too much for goods under this system? That’s because goods already cost too much in resources or in social injustice, and we’re just trying our best to ignore those costs and pretend we can loan ourselves an extra two to five planets.

There is a reason that social justice and democracy and peace are part of our four core principles in addition to ecological wisdom.

As many have pointed out, while we’d LOVE to be the major party in a government someday, ultimately if the other parties come around significantly enough to our agenda, we’re still succeeding even if our vote stays constant, as we’re concerned chiefly with implementing pragmatical approaches to our policies. If all you’re concerned about is someone occupying the high ground, you can either climb yourself with some friends or drag someone else who’s out to take the credit along behind you. Either way results in someone reaching the summit.

*They’re not. Why are we in an ecological crisis? Because society didn’t care about the planet and how we’re poisoning it. The social reform- being fully aware of social and environmental costs- is just as important as the economic reform where businesses have to pay some of those costs.

Like say, a well known folk singer, who is also a lifelong union activist and has written a book, and articles for both the left-wing press and mainstream media, someone Audrey Young described as “a great Wellington identity of the Left”?

[lprent: yes]

Thanks for your deeply meaningful comments about our party. Your comment above proves that blog bottom trawlers don’t know how to take a joke!

Cheers,
Oliver

Go you K1W1′s.

If only the Labour Party hadn’t wasted 796,880 left-wing votes!