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	<title>Comments on: Flippin&#8217; Bill</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: Pacific Empire &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Common Sense at The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-152066</link>
		<dc:creator>Pacific Empire &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Common Sense at The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-152066</guid>
		<description>[...] I will, however, applaud lprent today.  He got something right yesterday when he withdrew Bill English&#8217;s address from a post. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I will, however, applaud lprent today.  He got something right yesterday when he withdrew Bill English&#8217;s address from a post. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: English in serious trouble at The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-152036</link>
		<dc:creator>English in serious trouble at The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-152036</guid>
		<description>[...] John A pointed out yesterday, English has not only been living in Wellington for yonks, he even told the companies [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] John A pointed out yesterday, English has not only been living in Wellington for yonks, he even told the companies [...]</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-152018</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-152018</guid>
		<description>ha you said it tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ha you said it tim</p>
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		<title>By: BLiP</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151921</link>
		<dc:creator>BLiP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151921</guid>
		<description>No. I do not believe there was any attempt at intimidation. I thought I&#039;d made that clear. My initial response was too hasty and I pushed the button  - which proves your point.

(Note To Self: take a deep breath before hitting REPLY.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. I do not believe there was any attempt at intimidation. I thought I&#8217;d made that clear. My initial response was too hasty and I pushed the button  &#8211; which proves your point.</p>
<p>(Note To Self: take a deep breath before hitting REPLY.)</p>
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		<title>By: BLiP</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151920</link>
		<dc:creator>BLiP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151920</guid>
		<description>Fair nuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair nuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151919</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151919</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just catching up with this but I find it strange. Does anyone truly believe John was trying to intimidate Bill English and his family? This is  a blog, there&#039;s no editorial checks, no team of researchers. You write your post and you hit the publish button.

Sometimes that means you don&#039;t consider all the possible consequences of your words or how some people might take them. Sometimes that means you make mistakes. Hell, I&#039;ve made some myself. I think people should take John&#039;s explanation, appreciate his quick response to the feedback and move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just catching up with this but I find it strange. Does anyone truly believe John was trying to intimidate Bill English and his family? This is  a blog, there&#8217;s no editorial checks, no team of researchers. You write your post and you hit the publish button.</p>
<p>Sometimes that means you don&#8217;t consider all the possible consequences of your words or how some people might take them. Sometimes that means you make mistakes. Hell, I&#8217;ve made some myself. I think people should take John&#8217;s explanation, appreciate his quick response to the feedback and move on.</p>
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		<title>By: Anita</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151918</link>
		<dc:creator>Anita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151918</guid>
		<description>BLiP,

John A owes me nothing. The only thing I ever argued that he ever owed anyone he did some time ago and with excellent grace.

(For clarity, that is he removed the English children&#039;s home address from the public sphere)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BLiP,</p>
<p>John A owes me nothing. The only thing I ever argued that he ever owed anyone he did some time ago and with excellent grace.</p>
<p>(For clarity, that is he removed the English children&#8217;s home address from the public sphere)</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151917</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151917</guid>
		<description>Two mistakes, sausage. First, to  give The Standard a hive mind. Second, to mistake a deliberate attempt at incitement from the permed one with John A&#039;s use of an address to illustrate a point in a legitimate debate on issues of public importance. 

Obviously some have argued subsequently that the actual residential address wasn&#039;t necessary for the argument and pointed out some of the issues around publishing it, so John took the feedback onboard and decided to remove it.

All seems pretty sensible to me, only blown up by the usual right-wing trolls who want to continue to distract from the real issue, and the intemperate response from some on the left who prefer to assume the worst of their comrades rather than give them the benefit of the doubt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two mistakes, sausage. First, to  give The Standard a hive mind. Second, to mistake a deliberate attempt at incitement from the permed one with John A&#8217;s use of an address to illustrate a point in a legitimate debate on issues of public importance. </p>
<p>Obviously some have argued subsequently that the actual residential address wasn&#8217;t necessary for the argument and pointed out some of the issues around publishing it, so John took the feedback onboard and decided to remove it.</p>
<p>All seems pretty sensible to me, only blown up by the usual right-wing trolls who want to continue to distract from the real issue, and the intemperate response from some on the left who prefer to assume the worst of their comrades rather than give them the benefit of the doubt.</p>
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		<title>By: BLiP</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151916</link>
		<dc:creator>BLiP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151916</guid>
		<description>My initial response to your comment was not clear.  I should have said &quot;he owes an explanation as to why his post could have been interpreted as intimation&quot;. My apologies to you and John A.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My initial response to your comment was not clear.  I should have said &#8220;he owes an explanation as to why his post could have been interpreted as intimation&#8221;. My apologies to you and John A.</p>
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		<title>By: BLiP</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151914</link>
		<dc:creator>BLiP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151914</guid>
		<description>Like I said, I don&#039;t believe he was trying to do that, rather, it was the effect of what he did. 

To use an over-the-top example, why would &lt;a href=&quot;http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/07/thug-and-intimidation-tactics-of-far.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; extremists&lt;/a&gt; publish the addresses of those with whom they disagreed? Intimidation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I said, I don&#8217;t believe he was trying to do that, rather, it was the effect of what he did. </p>
<p>To use an over-the-top example, why would <a href="http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/07/thug-and-intimidation-tactics-of-far.html" rel="nofollow"> extremists</a> publish the addresses of those with whom they disagreed? Intimidation.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151905</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151905</guid>
		<description>What makes you think he was trying to do that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes you think he was trying to do that?</p>
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		<title>By: SPC</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151904</link>
		<dc:creator>SPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151904</guid>
		<description>I presume MP&#039;s and Ministers pay tax on their salary as others do. If others received travel allowances and accommodation allowances would they not be taxed? Fringe benefit/perks as income and also taxed? 

If there is no tax liability as occurs with tax paid benefits - do a form of means tests apply instead (income and assets of the MP/Minister and their partner)? 

I am at a loss to see why a Minister has a greater entitlement to help with accommodation when he receives an increase in pay on becoming a Minister. If it has something to do with promotion and salary package then it&#039;s all taxable. If not, why the extra amount - it costs the same to house a person and or their family whatever job they have. 

I know this is far too generous, why not stay with the maximum allowance of  $24,000 pa for MP&#039;s (use for Ministers also as it seems close to an average  Wellington family home rent cost. And tax the amount received as income (reducing it by 38 cents in the dollar - they receive enough pay to contribut towards their own housing costs).   

And a definition - if their family/partner is living with them it is the prime family home (so Bill would not qualify). However of course any Wellington based MP has other costs in representing an electorate (complicated with list MP&#039;s - no doubt Roger will be at our tourist resort hotels for ACT party meetings) so should be claiming for their electorate accommodation costs and or &quot;cost of&quot; use of an owned home for this purpose - based on what this home could be rented out for if not used for this purpose (the same $24,000 maximum should apply).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I presume MP&#8217;s and Ministers pay tax on their salary as others do. If others received travel allowances and accommodation allowances would they not be taxed? Fringe benefit/perks as income and also taxed? </p>
<p>If there is no tax liability as occurs with tax paid benefits &#8211; do a form of means tests apply instead (income and assets of the MP/Minister and their partner)? </p>
<p>I am at a loss to see why a Minister has a greater entitlement to help with accommodation when he receives an increase in pay on becoming a Minister. If it has something to do with promotion and salary package then it&#8217;s all taxable. If not, why the extra amount &#8211; it costs the same to house a person and or their family whatever job they have. </p>
<p>I know this is far too generous, why not stay with the maximum allowance of  $24,000 pa for MP&#8217;s (use for Ministers also as it seems close to an average  Wellington family home rent cost. And tax the amount received as income (reducing it by 38 cents in the dollar &#8211; they receive enough pay to contribut towards their own housing costs).   </p>
<p>And a definition &#8211; if their family/partner is living with them it is the prime family home (so Bill would not qualify). However of course any Wellington based MP has other costs in representing an electorate (complicated with list MP&#8217;s &#8211; no doubt Roger will be at our tourist resort hotels for ACT party meetings) so should be claiming for their electorate accommodation costs and or &#8220;cost of&#8221; use of an owned home for this purpose &#8211; based on what this home could be rented out for if not used for this purpose (the same $24,000 maximum should apply).</p>
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		<title>By: BLiP</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151903</link>
		<dc:creator>BLiP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151903</guid>
		<description>No. He owes Anita an explanation of why he tried to intimidate the English family. I&#039;m not for a second saying that was his intention, but rather what led up to that effect and what can be done to prevent it happening again. 

Despite my flippant comments in this post, and as was said above by a wiser commentator, there&#039;s a difference between information being publicly available and publicising it. I&#039;m happy to emulate some of the Right&#039;s tactics in debate but I&#039;d rather not stoop to their nadir - it incites escalation (or, more accurately, &quot;devolution&#039;) from the nutters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. He owes Anita an explanation of why he tried to intimidate the English family. I&#8217;m not for a second saying that was his intention, but rather what led up to that effect and what can be done to prevent it happening again. </p>
<p>Despite my flippant comments in this post, and as was said above by a wiser commentator, there&#8217;s a difference between information being publicly available and publicising it. I&#8217;m happy to emulate some of the Right&#8217;s tactics in debate but I&#8217;d rather not stoop to their nadir &#8211; it incites escalation (or, more accurately, &#8220;devolution&#8217;) from the nutters.</p>
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		<title>By: toad</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151901</link>
		<dc:creator>toad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151901</guid>
		<description>I preferred the &quot;Duke of Dipton&quot;.

Now that Key has brought back titular honours, hereditary peerages have to be next don&#039;t they?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I preferred the &#8220;Duke of Dipton&#8221;.</p>
<p>Now that Key has brought back titular honours, hereditary peerages have to be next don&#8217;t they?</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/flippin-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-151895</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=18272#comment-151895</guid>
		<description>Anita&#039;s post over at Kiwipolitico was totally over the top. John&#039;s response has been nothing but reasonable, and given the amount of vitriol Anita poured on him and the way she questioned his integrity he&#039;s been remarkably restrained. I think Anita owes him an apology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anita&#8217;s post over at Kiwipolitico was totally over the top. John&#8217;s response has been nothing but reasonable, and given the amount of vitriol Anita poured on him and the way she questioned his integrity he&#8217;s been remarkably restrained. I think Anita owes him an apology.</p>
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