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Frankly Speaking: Identifying a hypocrite in three easy steps

Written By: - Date published: 11:13 am, July 31st, 2012 - 103 comments
Categories: benefits, class war, john key, poverty - Tags: ,

Many of those who participate in the comments here at The Standard also run their own excellent blogs. We regularly feature No Right Turn and Imperator Fish. Today we’re reposting (with permission) pieces from two other blogs that attracted some attention in Open mike recently. First up here’s Frankly Speaking


Identifying a hypocrite in three easy steps

1.

Source

2.

Full story

3.

Full story

So poverty is a result of  “poor choices”?

I guess that justifies Dear Leader John Key turning his back on society’s most vulnerable. After all,  “poor choices” justifies blaming the poor for being poor, instead of having $50 million in their bank account.

So Mr Key, how did that free tertiary education and subsidised state house work out for you?

103 comments on “Frankly Speaking: Identifying a hypocrite in three easy steps”

  1. captain hook 1

    They dont serve two minute noodles at Bellamy’s.

  2. captain hook 2

    or canned spaghetti either.

  3. Kotahi Tāne Huna 3

    “Mr Key, how did that free tertiary education and subsidised state house work out for you?”

    Answer: “It turned me into a mendacious looter with flexible ethics…”

    • weka 3.1

      You think Key has ethics?

    • Gosman 3.2

      Are people no longer able to get subsidised state housing?

      • fender 3.2.1

        Yeah Gosh man there’s so many state houses for the increasing number of poor.

        Just keep your head in the sand golly gosh.

        • Gosman 3.2.1.1

          So there are still subsidised state houses then. Thanks for confirming that.

          The entire last sentence from Frank Macasey sums up the intellectual emptyness of ,many on the left. Not only do we still have subsidised state housing but our Tertiary education sector is also heavily subsidised as well. On top of this simply because we had a policy that some people benefitted from before doesn’t mean that policy should be always followed. If we took that to the logical conclusion the age of eligibility for National superannuation should never ever be altered to a higher age. In short a nonsensical argument.

          • Frank Macskasy 3.2.1.1.1

            Aside from empty, snide remarks such as , “the entire last sentence from Frank Macasey sums up the intellectual emptyness of ,many on the left” – do you actually have any facts to present to us?

            I notice you don’t address any of the points I raised. I suspect that’s because you don’t really care, Gosman, and are more interested in your own ego, rather than the growing poverty that afflicts our society.

            In fact, your argument here, beggars belief,

            “On top of this simply because we had a policy that some people benefitted from before doesn’t mean that policy should be always followed.”

            Why shouldn’t we follow policies that were successful and benefitted us? Especially, my little arrogant, close-minded friend, when you propose NO ALTERNATIVE whatsoever.

            • Gosman 3.2.1.1.1.1

              There are plenty of reasons why we should no longer follow policies that benefitted people in the past. In the case of both Superannuation age of entitlement and requiring Tertiary students to help fund part of their studies the main case is the cost of continuing the previous policy becomes higher due to changing demographics and/or behaviour from those taking advantage of the policy. You yourself have made noises about the costs of National Superannuation and seem to be supportive of the Labour party’s position regarding changing the age. However if we followed the same faulty logic you apply to Tertiary education funding this shouldn’t een be considered.

              As for mispelling your name my apologies but this is a blog comment and if spelling mistakes is of concern to you then you are going to be wasting a lot of your time trying to get these corrected.

              • mike e

                Goose last year you had go at me for being an uneducated idiot when I misspelt a couple of words however when I pointed out you had misspelt a few yourself
                you disappeared for several weeks.
                Don brashes productivity Commission reported back to your Nactuf govt that the single most important thing the country to improve productivity was to provide cheap housing so poor families can go to work and have enough money left over to provide for a stable family.
                OECD figures show we have some of the highest costs for housing families in the world,
                Also that keeping our children in poverty is a $6 billion a year cost to our economy.
                Making people pay to much for their education is going to make a Dumber economy!
                Obviously you want the economy and society built in your own image!
                Dumb and Dumber!

                • Gosman

                  As usual you spout BS mike e. Unless you have evidence of me picking you apart on your spelling. I suspect not. Please be aware highlighting your ignorance about the difference between the EU and the Eurozone is not mere semantics about spelling if that is what you are referring to.

              • “You yourself have made noises about the costs of National Superannuation and seem to be supportive of the Labour party’s position regarding changing the age. However if we followed the same faulty logic you apply to Tertiary education funding this shouldn’t een be considered.”

                Indeed I do support raising the age of retirement, Gosman (with some provisos.)

                However – and please note – the rationale for raising the age of retirement has been carefully considered, using arguments that are difficult to counter.

                There was never such a rationale put forward for user pays in tertiary education except to cut state spending and fund tax-cuts for those very people who had benefitted from free tertiary education. People like Dear Leader and many of his cronies.

                For you to maintain that user-pays was introduced because “requiring Tertiary students to help fund part of their studies the main case is the cost of continuing the previous policy becomes higher due to changing demographics and/or behaviour from those taking advantage of the policy” is bunkum. That is rhetoric unsustained by any facts.

                Try again.

                • Gosman

                  There are lots of arguments to support the view that Tertiary Students should make some sort of effort to pay for some of the cost of their education. ne of the arguments is why should people who don’t go to University subsidise those that do. It also tends to be a form of middle and upper class welfare.

            • prism 3.2.1.1.1.2

              Frank Macskasy
              I understand that Gooseman is tolerated because he occasionally makes a good point. But to me he and PG are on a see saw – if one is down the other comes up and fills the gap. Arguing with the Goose man is a waste of time because he just wants to make statements critical to most of the bloggers here which he then repeats in different words.

              • felix

                I’m yet to see one of these points you mention. Usually just an endlessly dull game of changing the subject with no point at all.

              • Oh, I’m fairly aware of Gosman’s performances here, and on other fora, Prism.

                Part of his “style” is to demand answers to a whole host of questions – though it becomes evident he’s not in the slightest bit interested in facts. It can become tedious after a while…

                It’s amusing that he seems to have jumped onto this particular thread. I think he likes me. :-D

                • Gosman

                  I provide shed load of facts Frank. I certainly back my opinions up with links when requested. You on the other hand seem to run for the hills when asked to back up your more wacky ideas such as your view that Chinese investment in Dairying will lead to higher milk prices in NZ.

                  Most of the time I enjoy pointing out the flaws in leftist logic such as in this case or when you got into that argument with the person on Tumeke about whether Jesus would have sanction Gay marriage. Your little rant about how her Religious beliefs were silly completely missed the point she was making which was there is plenty of evidence that Jesus supported the concept of a traditional marriage being between a man and a woman. Trouble is you are so high up on your horse you fail to notice these fundamental issues.

                  • In that case, feel free to comment on the ISSUES raised here instead of focusing on ” flaws in leftist logic”.

                    Because so far, you’ve done precious little of that. Which is why I lost interest in your posts a while ago; you were more interested in point-scoring and meaningless mind-games rather than,

                    * growing child poverty
                    * a lack of decent housing in this country
                    * a desperate need to more state housing
                    * not vilifying unemployed, solo-mums (but never solo-dads), widowws, low-income workers, etc,

                    Your first post was an inane question was “Are people no longer able to get subsidised state housing?”.

                    When you open you discussion with that kind of sheer drivel, then we know you’re not taking this matter seriously.

                    As for my comments on another blog – focus on this one instead of flaying all over the place.

                    • Gosman

                      No, I pointed out the basic flaw in the argument you continue to use against John Key and the National party policy decisions. Hopefully you will refrain from using this illogical argument in future.

                      Discussing those other matters is an entirely different matter. You obviously favour a more State interventionist approach, whereas others prefer to grow the productive sector to allow a surplus to spend on the less fortunate. The debate around this is called politics Frank and it isn’t as settled as you like to make out.

          • Frank Macskasy 3.2.1.1.2

            And by the way, Gosman, my surname is spelt Macskasy – not ‘Macasey’. C&P is your friend.

            • Frank Macskasy 3.2.1.1.2.1

              “No, I pointed out the basic flaw in the argument you continue to use against John Key and the National party policy decisions.”

              No, you pointed out no such thing. You just pointed out more of your own “aren’t I clever” attitude. Fail.

              “You obviously favour a more State interventionist approach, whereas others prefer to grow the productive sector to allow a surplus to spend on the less fortunate”

              Ah, now you’re focusing.

              Why do you assume that a state interventionist approach is exclusive to spending on the less fortunate?

              New Zealand actually has a proud history of doing both; the state providing cheap housing or finance for housing; milk in schools; free education; free heathcare, dental nurses in our schools, etc. As a child I even recall free doctor’s visits – housecalls – when I was ill.

              We offered free tertiary education for our children and the deal was that they, the students, would pay it forward to the next generation through their taxes.

              Until our society, through misguided governments and a blind Middle Class broke that covenant. The consequences are now upon us.

              And at the same time, NZ was in trade surplus with our exports. Unemployment was measured in the dozens or hundreds. And there wasn’t a yawning gap in incomes/wealth that we now have.

              Gosman, we’ve had 30 years of your liberal economics and we still have high unemploymwent; a growing current account deficit; housing shortage, etc. How long before you accept that it’s not delivering?

              Your ideology is a failure. No amount of smart-aleck sneering from you changes that reality.

              Point out any socio-economic indicator that has improved for New Zealanders since the mid-1980s.

              • Gosman

                NZ and the rest of the world is not the same society as it was pre 1980’s. We have a far more dynamic and open culture now than we did back then. You might like to turn back the clock to one which is White male dominated focusing on Rugby, Racing, and Beer culture. I don’t.

          • fender 3.2.1.1.3

            Your inability to comprehend and to see the wider picture sums up the ignorance and lack of intelligence of many on the right. It’s a good thing you have your conscience hidden in a blind trust.

          • rosy 3.2.1.1.4

            “The entire last sentence from Frank Macasey sums up the intellectual emptyness of ,many on the left. Not only do we still have subsidised state housing…”

            The only thing wrong with that last sentence is that Frank didn’t turn it into an essay so people like you, Gosman, would understand the difference between state housing in John Key’s youth and the state housing that is available now to some of the otherwise destitute.
            http://www.hnzc.co.nz/about-us/history-of-state-housing/

          • Vicky32 3.2.1.1.5

            Not only do we still have subsidised state housing but our Tertiary education sector is also heavily subsidised as well

            How do you make that out? Seriously?

            • Gosman 3.2.1.1.5.1

              See my comments and associated link below. Tertiary education is subsidsed by the State by the tune of 70% of the total cost per student.

              • Can you answer the questions I’ve asked you, Gosman?

                You demand responses from everyone else, why don’t you reciprocate?

                I think the questions I’ve asked you are fairly simple. No research required.

                • Gosman

                  Which question Frank? Was it the one regarding rosy’s asertion the John Key’s mother wouldn’t be eligble for a State House now? If so then I have given you my answer.

      • bbfloyd 3.2.2

        @gossamer….Irrelevant, and obnoxious comment…. try harder to make adult noises next time…

      • Gosman: “Are people no longer able to get subsidised state housing?”

        Short answer; no.

        Long answer: we have a massive housing shortage in New Zealand.

        Feel free to research this subject at some length, Gosman.

        • Gosman 3.2.3.1

          Since you think you have a handle on this topic Frank please advise me how the waiting list for State Houses has changed over the past 10 years. You do have that information don’t you Frank? It isn’t as if you are just spouting off on this topic without being fully versed with the facts of the matter I hope.

            • Gosman 3.2.3.1.1.1

              Are you deliberately avoiding answering my question? That link did not provide me with the detail I asked you about. Surely someone like you who is blogging about the waiting lists for State Houses and demanding the Government spend billions on a massive State House building programme knows how the waiting list has changed over the past decade.

              • The link is there. Read the data. The fact you choose to ignore facts and figures is not my problem.

                As for “how the waiting list for State Houses has changed over the past 10 years” – what possible relevance does that have on 4,000+ waiting for a state house?

                You are so obssessed with pointless trivia.

                Why are you not more concerned with the here-and-now, Gosman? Is it because it is disturbing to pweople like you?

                Some time ago, you made a post about children on a protest march. You complained that it was unfair on children. You utterly ignore the fact that the protest directly affcted their wellbeing – but you didn’t concern yourself with that. You were more interested in using that situation to score a moral “point”.

                But no one took you seriously, because we know you are utterly unconcerned with the wellbeing of others. You are a typical free market individualist, Gosman. Which makes it so laughable when you feigned concern for children.

                You are a child of Ayn Rand, and I am thankful that you exist and post your garbage here, so we are reminded where your dgma would lead us.

          • rosy 3.2.3.1.2

            The thing is Gos, that fact is completely unrelated to Frank’s post. You’d need to compare the waiting list from about 40-45 years ago with the list now. And compare eligibility – which really is the point. John Key’s mother would not have got a state house now, You’re simply playing games.

            • Gosman 3.2.3.1.2.1

              Why wouldn’t John Key’s mother have got a State house now? Are you implying she would have been homeless?

              • bad12

                ( :roll: )

              • Why do you think she would?

                • Gosman

                  Do you have those statistics regarding the change in waiting lists Frank or are you simply wasting time trying to avoid dealing with the fact that you are blogging about a topic without fully researching and understanding it?

                  • Not interested, Gosman.

                    But feel free to answer why you feel Key’s mother wouldn’t have been given a State house?

                    And why is historic data more important to you than hundreds of families on current State housing lists?

                    • Gosman

                      The problem is Frank you have defined this issue as if ANYBODY on a waiting list is problematic. I have no idea if that is the case at all. Perhaps 4000 people on a waiting list is historically a standard number of people for such a waiting list. As you haven’t provided any data supporting your view that the 4000 people on the list is high by historical standards why whould I be overly concerned about this issue?

                      As for John Key’s mother and her eligibility for a State house, it was not I who made an asertion that she would be eligible for one now. This was rosy. She seemingly can’t back this statement up with any evidence. Take your concerns up with her.

                    • “As you haven’t provided any data supporting your view that the 4000 people on the list is high by historical standards why whould I be overly concerned about this issue?”

                      Oh my god.

                      You really do exhibit psychopathic tendencies.

                      That statement was as cold and callous as your remark on my blog that millions of unemployed was a necessary result of the GFC…

                    • “The problem is Frank you have defined this issue as if ANYBODY on a waiting list is problematic.”

                      Incorrect. I haven’t defined anyone or anything.

                      I was quoting Housing NZ figures – which you obviously didn’t bother to check.

                      THAT, Gosman, is why I can’t be arsed spending time doing research for you. And it’s not the first time you wilfully chose to ignore data I looked up for you. You may get some kind of weird kick out of sending people off to do research for you, like a puppet, but not me.

                      Not when you ignore what I do give you.

                    • Gosman

                      So why do yu think 4000 people on a waiting list for a State House is a terrible thing Frank? Unless you are comparing it to some other figure we can’t really quantify it at all. For example if the Waiting list was 8000 two years ago then 4000 is actually a positive figure in that it is coming down.

                  • rosy

                    This will answer your questions. It’s all there… I’ve checked.

                    • I have no idea whether she would or woiuldn’t qualify for a State house now and on top I think it is irrelevant to the discussion for the points I outlined originally in this discussion.

                      I have no idea whether she would or woiuldn’t qualify for a State house now and on top I think it is irrelevant to the discussion for the points I outlined originally in this discussion.

                      “I think it is irrelevant to the discussion…”?!

                      In which case, Gosman, why did you bring it up?

                      Why is is “irrelevant” now – but not “irrelevant” that you demanded answers from Rosie to your “irrelevant” questions?

                      It appears, Gosman that you can’t even answer questions based on points that YOU raise. Incredible.

                      And I repeat:

                      C’mon, Gosman, you must have an actual belief in this matter? Show some intellectual honesty for once and lay your cards on the table.

                      Or are you afraid that by voicing your own beliefs, that your views will be shredded to pieces as utter BS?

                  • As for John Key’s mother and her eligibility for a State house, it was not I who made an asertion that she would be eligible for one now. This was rosy. She seemingly can’t back this statement up with any evidence. Take your concerns up with her.

                    No, Gosman. You’re evading.

                    You made the following statement,

                    1 August 2012 at 9:31 am

                    Why wouldn’t John Key’s mother have got a State house now? Are you implying she would have been homeless?

                    Now, please tell us why you think Key’s mother WOULD have been eligible for a state house, and not been relegated to Category C or D on their waiting list.

                    Simple question, Gosman.

                    • Gosman

                      No, Rosy made the statement. Trying to get me to answer it for her is just plain silly. She has basically admitted that she can’t back her view up. That is enough for me. Her statement is without factual basis at this stage.

                    • It was a simple question, Gosman.

                      But let me simplify it further for you; Why do you think Key;’s mum would’ve been in Category A of the State Housing List rather than B, C, or D?

                      You suggested in your reply that you couldn’t see why she would qualifity; “Why wouldn’t John Key’s mother have got a State house now? “.

                      I’m asking you why you think she would, as opposed to over 4,000 other people.

                      I think that’s a simple question. Are you unable to answer it?

                    • rosy

                      Jeez Gosman, I lived in a state house around the same time Key did – half the country did! (exaggerating only marginally). You’re being ridiculous and if you’d bother to check Frank’s link you’d know she wouldn’t meet today’s eligibility criteria. And given the marginalised state of state housing she would probably not want it (which means she wouldn’t have met the criteria – circular reasoning – if you’re picky, you’re not desperate, if you’re not desperate you don’t meet the criteria). End of.

                    • Gosman

                      You haven’t explained why she wouldn’t meet the criteria. All I see is that in your , (quite obviously prejudicial), opinion she would fail to meet the criteria. I have no idea if she would or she wouldn’t. You seem to think she wouldn’t but don’t want to actually confirm whether your opinion is based on fact. Your choice but don’t expect people to just accept your opinion as valid without being challenged on it.

                    • @ Gosman,

                      All I see is that in your , (quite obviously prejudicial), opinion she would fail to meet the criteria. I have no idea if she would or she wouldn’t. You seem to think she wouldn’t but don’t want to actually confirm whether your opinion is based on fact.

                      Where did I state that “she would fail to meet the criteria” or that “seem to think she wouldn’t” qualify for State Housing? Where did I say that?

                      And if you “have no idea if she would or she wouldn’t” qualify, what was you point in asking “Why wouldn’t John Key’s mother have got a State house now? Are you implying she would have been homeless?”

                      Do you think Rosy was wrong in her assessments?

                      C’mon, Gosman, you must have an actual belief in this matter? Show some intellectual honesty for once and lay your cards on the table.

                      Or are you afraid that by voicing your own beliefs, that your views will be shredded to pieces as utter BS?

                    • Gosman

                      I have no idea whether she would or woiuldn’t qualify for a State house now. On top I think it is irrelevant to the discussion for the reasons I outlined originally in this discussion.

                      What benefits someone had 30 to 40 odd years ago should not colour the argument over whether these same benefits should still be applied at the same level today.

                      By all means argue the merits of your case based on today’s reality but it is an illogical argument to state that what we had in the past should somehow always be what we have now.

                    • rosy

                      Here’s an idea Gosman – seeing as you’re not into checking links… phone HCNZ and tell them your husband has just died, you’ve got 2 or 3 kids of school age (I can’t recall if Key has 2 siblings or one), you work part-time, you’re in good health (so are your children) and have a few assets. And no you don’t live in over-crowded conditions or in a car, and you really want to move for family support (seeing as your husband has just died).

                      Let me know how you get on.

        • prism 3.2.3.2

          Frank Macskasy
          Do you think that it would be best to give Gosman the icon answer to match the worth of his thinking? Honouring his testy questions to which he wants replies to troll through for the next inane question and so on, is a waste of your time. People like him are psychologically warped to find pleasure in disagreeing with other people’s ideas. They have time to indulge their interests in a version of an on-line game with real people’s scenarios expressed in words.

  4. Tracey 4

    Bear in mind that the PM can pull this off with a straight face because the industry he careered in has, generally, ethics driven by one thing, profit. Accordingly he probably believes much of what he says because his moral compass has been skewed from 30 years in a business area with little or no moral compass.

  5. Dv 5

    “If one budgets one can pay its bills”

    SO how come the Nats have borrowed billions!!

    • Matthew 5.1

      poor choices, obviously

      • alwyn 5.1.1

        Very poor choices in some cases.
        Keeping WFF going for families on over $100,000/annum
        Keeping interest free student loans.
        Pouring more money into the 19th century technology which is the railways.
        Yes, very poor choices.

        • Frank Macskasy 5.1.1.1

          Alwyn,

          Those “poor choices” resulted from failed neo-lib, free market policies;

          “Keeping WFF going for families on over $100,000/annum”

          After so much user-pays and higher government charges introduced, WFF was Labour’s tagetted tax cuts for families.

          Just as National cut taxes in 2009 and 2010 – leaving a gaping hole in the government’s budget.

          “Keeping interest free student loans.”

          We have student loans and debts because tertiary education is now (mostly) user-pays. We once had free tertiary education, which John Key himself benefitted from.

          Just as we once had a Training Incentive Allowance, which Paula Bennett benefitted from.

          “Pouring more money into the 19th century technology which is the railways.”

          And yet, our Japanese cuzzies have high-speed bullet-trains and China is inventing billions in high speed rail.

          If you’re going to call rail “19th century technology” – does the same apply to automobiles, also a relic from the 19th century?

          • Gosman 5.1.1.1.1

            It is incorrect to state that Tertiary education is mostly user pays. The State still subsidises the vast majority of the total cost of Tertiary education for students (around 70%). Nice bit of spin their though Frank.

            http://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/publications/tertiary_education/31473/4

            • Frank Macskasy 5.1.1.1.1.1

              Congratulations; I was wondering when you’d notice.. When you focus on the ISSUES, instead of your ego-games, is when you can pick up on points like that. On a previous occassion you didn’t even *click* when I referred to the wrong Prime Minister.

              It’s called staying focused.

              • Gosman

                This was posted yesterday Frank. It’s taken you this long to notice it. In fact your posts about me not addressing the issue was made AFTER I posted this.

                BTW are you going to address the point I made or run away like you usually do?

                  • bad12

                    here borrow mine, :roll:

                  • Gosman

                    So that would be a no then.

                    • No, you twit, that would be a Stay Focused on ISSUES!! Oh gawd, no wonder your precious ACT Party polls less than 1%…

                    • Gosman

                      It is you who seem to be failing to stay on issue Frank. Where is the evidence that waiting lists for State houses has increased dramatically over the past decade or so? Surely you have this information. You aren’t just blogging about this topic without having fully researched it now are you?

                    • “It is you who seem to be failing to stay on issue Frank. Where is the evidence that waiting lists for State houses has increased dramatically over the past decade or so? Surely you have this information.”

                      And why is it, Gosman, that that is more important to you than 4,000-plus people waiting for a state hiouse now?

                      If you want the data, find it. Don’t be so bloody lazy. I’m not going to waste time doing your research only dfor you to dismiss it; ignore it; or ask more pointless questions.

                      But I’m still curious as to why a historic waiting list is more important to you rather than 4,000+ peoples – families – on waiting lists right now?

                      Are you so disjointed from your felliow man and woman that historic stats matter more than the present?

                      Are you, Gosman?

                    • Gosman

                      So that would be a big fat – No then. If you want to be taken seriously in your blogging you really should spend more time researching the topic.

                  • mike e

                    goose you provide all the research we need by shooting youself in the foot with your own links save hours thanks goose.

        • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.2

          Pouring more money into the 19th century technology which is the railways.

          Railways are going to be used long after the rest is gone mate. Don’t push the country into a logistical dead end because of your ignorance please.

        • mike e 5.1.1.3

          Alwyn During that time we actually caught up with Australia for the first time in thirty years the economy grew by more than 1%.
          Boris Johnston and your other Tory morons have put nearly 100billion pounds into rail and just about cut out all motorway construction.
          Yes poor argument Alwymp.

        • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.4

          Pouring more money into the 19th century technology which is the railways.

          Have you ever considered the reason why rail came before cars? It’s relatively simple – it’s cheaper and far more efficient.

          • mike e 5.1.1.4.1

            60 times cheaper per person moved thats the way I like My out of date technology.
            Boris Johnston has more brains than all the right whingers in this country.

  6. fender 6

    John Key is the Mitt Romney of NZ. We don’t need him and his low intelligence style, and like my late grandmother would warn: don’t trust him, his eyes are too close together.

    • seeker 6.1

      Talking about Mitt Romney. A large front page headline in a British tabloid aptly blazed”Mitt the Twit” last Saturday. Could we have similar with”John the Con” ?

  7. bad12 7

    I whole-heartedly agree with Slippery the Prime Minister, that we have an uncounted number of beneficiaries and their children living in Poverty is in fact the result of poor choices,

    The poor choice of having as Government those who have instituted the economic policies of Neo-Liberalism,

    The poor choice of that Government that applied income tax to welfare benefits,

    The poor choice of the next Government not to remove that taxation from welfare benefits,

    The poor choice of a later Governments to cut those welfare benefits by 20 dollars,

    The poor choice of the next Government to not restore those welfare benefits back to their previous level,

    The poor choice of a later Government to not include the children of beneficiaries in the Working for Families tax credit scheme,

    And last but hardly least,

    The poor choice of the present Slippery National Government to apply a higher rate of GST to the economy thereby increasing as a % of earnings the taxation on beneficiaries AND rack-raising the excise tax upon tobacco products which effects beneficiaries at a higher % than the rest of the community thus becoming benefit cutting by stealth by this Government,

    Gee, looks like i just out-lined a blue-print of how to drive a particular income group into poverty and keep them there,

    Slippery, the present Prime Min ister should be hanging His head in shame at the part He and His Government have played in this impoverishment but Labour are hardly knights in shining armor when their actions in such impoverishment are viewed through the lens of history…

    • Macro 7.1

      Sad but true.
      A succession of governments in this country have completely abrogated the responsibility to which the were duly elected. The protection and welfare of the most vulnerable.

  8. fabregas4 8

    We have a NZ housing home near my school. It has been empty for two months whilst we also have a whole lot of people living in very poor housing with kids with asthma etc. But I’m sure its their fault – if only those kids could breathe better.

  9. lprent 9

    This post has had a lot of interest – 10,437 views of which 1867 have been from today – almost a week after the post went up. Comments stopped about 5 days ago.

    I guess that it is on someone’s mailing list as it isn’t obvious from ten referrals where people are coming in from and it is a wide range of reasonably local IP’s

    Take a bow Frank…

    • bad12 9.1

      That’s interesting alright, do you have an average of how many page views the average post receives,

      Perhaps the subject has become topical as a school subject somewhere???…

    • Awwww, thanks, Lprent…

      I know there are a couple of people who spread links far and wide, especially on Twitter.

      Funny thing… we recently purchased a copy of Bryan Bruce’s doco, “Inside Child Poverty”, and lent it to some family. She is a Labour voter, He is a Nat voter. When we got the dvd back, He and I had a chat. Upshot, I think the Nats have just lost a vote…

      So the word is spreading, albeit slowly.

      • weka 9.2.1

        Those stats are very cool. I think it’s a good post in terms of readability and getting the point across easily for people that might not otherwise be bothered, but there is more to read if people want to. Well done Frank.

  10. captain hook 10

    go Frank.
    looks like you got the weasel in your sights.
    +2

Important links

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Recent Posts

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    The Daily Blog | 26-09
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    DID IT REALLY HAVE TO END LIKE THIS? Reading through the commentary threads of the left-wing blogs it is impossible to not feel the anger; the sense of betrayal; the impression of having had something vital ripped from their grasp;...
    The Daily Blog | 26-09
  • GUEST BLOG – Myles Thomas: The media won it!
    Make no mistake, John Key is a clever communicator – reasonable, authoritative and relaxed – but without the media he wouldn’t be PM. Depending on your viewpoint, New Zealand’s news media are either a bunch of Grey Lynn lefties or...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • Not Learning Lessons Past: the West’s Response to IS
    In an earlier posting Ukraine, United Kingdom, Ireland, Scotland, I noted that the first lesson of conflict learned by Robert McNamara was “understand your adversary”. If we have honourable objectives, our first and most important weapon is empathy. In the Vietnam War,...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Dr Jarrod Gilbert – Proof of David Farrar’s deception: my ...
    In the lead up to the election the Minister of Corrections Anne Tolley launched a gang policy. In order to justify the government’s approach she used gang figures that overstated the gang problem. Not by a little bit, but a...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • SPECIAL FEATURE: Stuart Nash – Red To The Rescue?
    SPECIAL FEATURE by Selwyn Manning. IF THE ELECTION RESULT which was dished out to Labour was not enough to incite an immediate leadership primary, then the caucus’ refusal to recognise David Cunliffe as the leader should cement it. Now is...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • Has the one party state crackdown begun already? Left wing NZ activist grou...
    Well known left wing activist social media group, ‘John Key Has Left Down NZ’ has been shut down on Facebook. At 11.40pm last night, Facebook, without any warning shut the group down siting a breach of terms of service as...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • Why Cunliffe should probably just let Nash & Robertson win
    We have to face some very unpalatable home truths. If you are a left wing political person, best you put your vote now to the Green Party, although you’ll have to do that all the while the Greens frantically tell you...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • The graceless win of Kelvin Davis
    The graceless win of Cameron Slater’s mate in the North, Kelvin Davis is difficult to swallow. Here Cameron Slater’s mate in the North is shitting on Hone Harawira by calling Hone all steam, no hangi as Kelvin rubs his ganged up win into...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • So Labour shifted too far to the left?
    So Labour shifted too far to the left?   Here’s the ill-judged view of Josie Pagani in the Pundit “Labour must change”: “At the last election I made myself a heretic when I wrote a column mentioning how unpopular the...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • Uncomplicated Loyalties: Why Cunliffe and the Labour Left Cannot Win
    THE STORY of David Cunliffe’s leadership of the Labour Party has been one of missed opportunities and unforced errors. That he was the only choice available to those who wanted to rid the Labour Party of its neoliberal cuckoos is...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • So we can expect this now?
    So we can expect this now?...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • Can Labour be saved? Why Whaleoil & National won and why we need a new ...
    As the shock of my optimism that NZers would recoil from the real John Key as exposed by Dirty Politics and mass surveillance duplicities wears off, I am surprised to find that the right in NZ are not content with...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • Three more years (up shit creek and paddling hard)
    “If the future is not green, there is no future. If the future is not you, there is no future”. Emma Thompson’s stirring words to the climate marchers in London last Sunday are worth considering in the aftermath of the...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • One Party State
    In years to come this election will be seen as a historic turning point towards one party rule. I don`t mean this literally, absolute single party dictatorship is not in prospect. In the New Zealand context though, one party has...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • No More. The Left Falls.
    . We cannot be beaten down Because we are down already. We can only rise up and if you should beat us down, We will rise again. And again. And again… And when you tire of beating us down, We...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • Hang tight everyone – Marama Davidson campaign reflection
    To the many people who had expressed their overwhelming support for me to enter Parliament this election – thank you. That the Greens held steady in a big loss for progressive politics is an achievement. We are hopeful that after...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • How You Can Help the Homeless
    At any one time, there are an estimated 357 homeless people in Central Auckland alone, many enduring hardships beyond the rain, wind and cold of sleeping rough. October 10 is World Homeless Day when the public are invited to learn...
    Scoop politics | 02-10
  • Over 20% of Gold Production Now Pledged to Kiwifruit Claim
    Kiwifruit growers representing over 20% of New Zealand gold kiwifruit production have already pledged to join The Kiwifruit Claim, the chairman of the claim’s grower committee, John Cameron, said today....
    Scoop politics | 02-10
  • ‘Creepy’ Decision on Up-Skirt Filming Slammed
    Family First NZ says that a discharge without conviction given to a man who filmed up a woman's dress in a Wellington department store is a ‘creepy’ decision that should concern all people who value their privacy. “This decision by...
    Scoop politics | 02-10
  • Speaker leads delegation to CPA Conference
    Strengthening New Zealand’s ties with parliaments from across the world will be the focus of the upcoming delegation to the 60th Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA) Conference in Yaoundé, Cameroon from 4-10 October and the 131st Inter-Parliamentary...
    Scoop politics | 02-10
  • Response to Russell Brown and Tertiary Education Union
    The allegation that I have worked with others to discredit public health efforts is wrong. My public comments in relation to public health researchers have been where academics have mislead the public about official support or endorsement, and where...
    Scoop politics | 02-10
  • 17 jobs lost as Bridon/Cookes reaches the end of its rope
    Seventeen workers at the iconic Bridon/Cookes wire rope company in Auckland are to be made redundant as the company ceases production in New Zealand. The company has blamed the high New Zealand dollar for making it uncompetitive to keep the...
    Scoop politics | 02-10
  • Slip in University Rankings – Funding Not the Problem
    Responding to the slippage of New Zealand universities' rankings , Jordan Williams, Executive Director of the Taxpayers’ Union says:...
    Scoop politics | 02-10
  • Time to rethink police chases, says safety campaigner
    Police chases are dangerous and generally unnecessary, says the American Federal Bureau of Investigation....
    Scoop politics | 02-10
  • Robertson now expected to be Labour leader by Xmas
    Grant Robertson is now overwhelmingly picked to become the next leader of the Labour Party by the end of the year, according to the combined wisdom of the 8000+ registered traders on New Zealand’s predictions market, iPredict. Another potential Labour...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Documenting historic Māori land law cases for the first time
    A new book from Victoria University of Wellington’s Faculty of Law will continue to put the spotlight on Māori Land Law judgments which have never before been published....
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • ‘Oily’ people greet Petroleum Summit diners
    Greenpeace activists smeared in fake oil have greeted guests arriving at the part-Statoil sponsored Petroleum Summit dinner this evening....
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Key Decisions Made About Labour’s Leadership Election
    Labour’s New Zealand Council has made the key decisions about the timetable and process around the election of Labour’s Party Leader. The result will be announced on Tuesday 18th November, following a comprehensive and extensive process unique...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Suspected $6 Million Dollar Wananga Fraud Alarming
    The Taxpayers’ Union is calling on on the Te Whare Wananga o Awanuiarangi to front up over claims the Wananga has pocketed government overpayments amounting to $6 million of taxpayers' money. Jordan Williams, Executive Director of the Taxpayers’ Union...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Submissions sought on herbicide for weed control in maize
    The Environmental Protection Authority is calling for submissions on a herbicide to improve broadleaf weed control in maize. The substance CADET contains 100g fluthiacet-methyl in the form of an emulsifiable concentrate and would contain a new active ingredient...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Jesse Mulligan Lives Below Poverty Line
    Jesse Mulligan Lives Below Poverty Line TV personality Jesse Mulligan will live on the equivalent of the extreme poverty line this October in order to raise awareness of sex trafficking. Mulligan will survive on $2.25 for his food from October...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Narratives from the 2014 Election: What do we learn?
    Narratives from the 2014 Election: What do we learn? - Sue Bradford, Russell Brown & Kirk Serpes discuss....
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Voices from Oceania to speak out on climate change
    Voices from Oceania to speak out on climate change at launch of Pacific environment report...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Changes to Pacific Tsunami Warning Centre messages
    The Ministry of Civil Defence & Emergency Management advises that while changes to Pacific Tsunami Warning Centre messages come into effect from today (Wednesday 1 October), the Ministry has been, and remains, the authoritative voice for tsunami...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Police remove banner at Statoil Offices in Wellington
    Oil Free Wellington hung a banner at 9:30 this morning at the Statoil office headquarters in Wellington as the Petroleum Summit opened in Auckland. The banner, which read 'Statoil out of Northland: Stop Deep Sea Oil', has now been removed...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Mixed massages raise concerns
    Mixed massages raise concerns for Te Taumata Kaumatua Ngapuhi nui tonu, and Te Wakaminenga O nga Hapu Ngapuhi....
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Union Slams Port Boss’s Pay Rise
    The Rail and Maritime Transport Union (RMTU) says Lyttelton Port CEO Peter Davie’s 18% wage rise, taking his pay packet to $1.24m, is unjustified and inflammatory. ‘Lyttelton port has an appalling health and safety record, with three deaths on...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Prisons expert Ron Nikkel to speak in Auckland October 15
    Prison Fellowship NZ and JustSpeak have the privilege of hosting the former president of Prison Fellowship International, Ron Nikkel....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Hundreds of educators protest IES in Rotorua
    Four hundred educators from around the country took their opposition to the Government's controversial Investing in Educational Success policy to the public today....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Crime drops by 3.2 % in the 2013 / 2014 financial year
    Criminal offences dropped by 3.2 % in the last financial year according to figures released today through Statistics New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Narratives from the 2014 Election: what do we learn?
    I would like to invite you to a Fabians Reflection on "Dirty Politics, Dotcom and Labour’s worst result" with Colin James, Keith Ng, Stephanie Rodgers and Richard Harman. They will provide a debrief of analysis and lessons from the 2014...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Oil Free Wellington drops banner from Statoil headquarters
    Today members of Oil Free Wellington have targeted the offices of Statoil, by attaching a banner reading 'Statoil out of Northland: Stop Deep Sea Oil' to the entrance of Vodafone on the Quay Midland Park, where Statoil's New Zealand office...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Media Statement from Karen Price
    “After a period of intense media attention and scrutiny of our family, I set up and used an anonymous Twitter account over the weekend and made a number of comments that I deeply regret....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Greenpeace disrupts Simon Bridges’ speech to oil industry
    Greenpeace activists have disrupted the opening speech by Energy and Resources Minister Simon Bridges at the Petroleum Summit in Auckland this morning....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • New Zealand Red Cross Responds to Drought in Tonga
    New Zealand Red Cross has sent an aid worker and two desalination units, to turn seawater into safe drinking water in the drought-hit Ha’apai islands of Tonga....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Can you ever tell if an email is real or forged?
    Computer industry veteran Brian Eardley-Wilmot warns that we should never take claims about stolen emails at face value....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • NZ MPs to attend the ASPG Annual Conference in Sydney
    New Zealand MPs to attend the Australasian Study of Parliament Group Annual Conference in Sydney...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Independent Maori seats still needed in Parliament
    “He’s got to be joking!” is the reaction of the president of the Maori Party, Rangimarie Naida Glavish to a call by a former Labour Minister of Maori Affairs, Dover Samuels, for debate by Maori on whether the Maori electorates...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Support for Democratic Rights in Hong Kong
    Rallies supporting the rights for universal suffrage will take place all over New Zealand today and tomorrow...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Trout Mass-Poisoned in New Zealand
    Trout Mass-Poisoned in New Zealand The Graf Boys New Zealand has some of the best trout fishing in the world! Every year thousands of international visitors wade pristine rivers in search of the freshwater game fish....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • New Zealand’s 2014 Hottest Vegetarians Crowned
    With winter gone things are heating up, and things just got even hotter with the crowning of New Zealand’s hottest vegetarians, says animal advocacy group SAFE. Marking World Vegetarian Day, 1st October, director James Napier Robertson and actor...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • A day to remember our duty to look after our senior citizens
    Human Rights Commissioner Dr Jackie Blue says International Day of the Older Person (1 October) is a United Nations day to celebrate our senior citizens, but also acknowledge the need to protect our kaumatua, or older people from abuse and...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Clear data needed on impact of benefit sanctions on children
    A lack of data on benefit sanctions means there is no way of knowing whether welfare reform is helping or harming children, says Child Poverty Action Group....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • The socialist alternative to austerity and war
    Public meeting: After the New Zealand election—the socialist alternative to austerity and war By Tom Peters 29 September 2014...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • New recruits to boost border protection
    Twenty six new recruits began an intensive nine-week training course in Auckland today that will see them graduate as Customs officers in time for the busy summer season....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Dwindling Mallard population shows up ‘pest’ myth
    The pro hunting organisation Fish & Game is researching the causes of the decline of the mallard duck population, upset at the prospect of fewer ducks to kill....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Support for Democratic Rights in Hong Kong
    New Zealanders in Auckland will gather on Wednesday to support the rights for universal suffrage in Hong Kong....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Campbell Live Exclusive Interview with David Cunliffe
    David Cunliffe resigned as leader of the Labour party on Saturday; but he still wants the top job....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Action needed on cycling safety
    “Clearly we aren't doing enough to protect the 1.5 million New Zealanders who ride bikes,” said Mr Morgan....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • World Rivers Day Passes Without A Whimper
    Sunday 28 September was World Rivers Day to celebrate clean, flowing rivers and caring about them. But a recreation-conservation advocacy the Council of Outdoor Recreation Associations of NZ (CORANZ) says the day seems to have slipped by without...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • The Kiwifruit Claim: Q&A
    1. Who is running The Kiwifruit Claim? The Kiwifruit Claim was founded by kiwifruit growers representing well in excess of 10% of the industry. 2. Why are you running this claim? The introduction of Psa into New Zealand had devastating...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Fed Farmers Need to Be Weaned
    The Taxpayers’ Union is calling on Federated Farmers to make a firm commitment to reject any future Government funding, after it was revealed that the lobby group had received over $200,000 of payments in recent years....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Children paying the price for charter school stitch up
    New Zealand children will be paying a high price for a one-seat deal between ACT and National, with an expansion of the beleaguered charter school system says education union NZEI Te Riu Roa....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Hikoi From North Reaches Oil Conference Tomorrow
    Today: The Hikoi opposing Statoil plans for seismic testing and deep sea oil drilling has marched through Dargaville and later be welcomed to Piringatahi Marae, West Harbour,Tamaki Makaurau/Auckland....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Communities Still Count
    The efforts of many organisations to influence the electorate and the political parties they voted for in the lead up to the 2014 Election is over. The voting public has spoken and provided a strong endorsement to the centre-right National...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Eleven social enterprises get ready to take off
    Eleven teams from across the country will take part in the Launchpad, Ākina’s programme to get social enterprise ideas off the ground....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
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lprent: At the request of Tim Barnett, Labour's returning officer, the Karen Price/Clayton Cosgrove post has been withdrawn during the primary.