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Gay marriage

Written By: - Date published: 9:17 am, July 28th, 2012 - 181 comments
Categories: gay rights, human rights - Tags: ,

This week Labour MP Louisa Wall’s marriage equality bill was drawn from the ballot, with a first reading reading expected within weeks. According to 3 News the “Gay marriage debate takes off”. I suspect that the Nats are smiling happily to themselves, and hoping for a nasty fight. It would be an excellent distraction from their damning list of incompetence and woes: the moribund economy, the unpopular and bungled asset sales, the record exodus to Australia, their dependence on John “technicality” Banks, and so on.

Wouldn’t it be great if we as a country were mature enough to avoid a demeaning circus, and resolve the issue quickly and without fuss. What possible reason is there to deny a couple marriage? With luck the only dissenting voices will be isolated extremists like Colin Craig:

Conservative Party leader Colin Craig has launched into the same-sex marriage debate with a controversial argument why it’s wrong.

He says same-sex couples who want to marry lack respect for what already exists. He also says it would allow them to adopt, which would be harmful for children.

The Christian party leader is not a Member of Parliament, but waded into the debate on Twitter this morning, saying it wasn’t intelligent to pretend gay relationships were normal.

His series of tweets was followed by a press release which said the minority were busy with their “social engineering” and trying to “meddle with the system”.

Mr Craig told 3 News that people choose to be gay rather than being born that way, many as a result of being abused as children.

Mr Craig is a tool of ignorance, superstition and prejudice. He represents a small minority of New Zealanders, and that’s all that needs to be said about him. In contrast, and true to his usual form, John Key is of no fixed opinion:

The Prime Minister won’t say whether he’ll support a bill allowing same sex marriage beyond its first reading, but says most of his MPs are likely to vote against it. … “Probably my electorate would be opposed to gay marriage. I might just decide to make my own mind up on it.”

Get back to us when you’ve run your focus groups John. With any luck they’ll tell you to do the decent thing, and you’ll throw your political influence behind supporting gay marriage. That way you can be remembered as a PM who got at least one thing right.

181 comments on “Gay marriage”

  1. Tigger 1

    So why the hell did you turn up to all this Big Gay Outs, John? Oh yeah, pandering, lying, giving the appearance of support. Tosser.

    • gobsmacked 1.1

      So why the hell did you turn up to all this Big Gay Outs, John?

      Yeah, that’s going to cause him real trouble, if the bill hasn’t been passed by the end of the year. There’s no way he’ll do the happy photo-op if he’s still on the fence (or even opposed).

      So, another reason for National to help this one along, get it out of the way ASAP.

    • mike e 1.2

      Shonkey turned up because he is a buysexual
      Vote buying
      The cat walk
      The RWC handshake
      Dogwhistle or is that cat

  2. Lanthanide 2

    Hey Mr Craig, I didn’t “choose” to be gay and I wasn’t abused as a child.

    His stance doesn’t make sense anyway: many people “choose” to be gay because they suffered abuse as a child?

    • felix 2.1

      Of course it doesn’t make sense. Look at the people he’s trying to “make sense” to.

    • Colin Craig said something verrry interesting about “choosing to be gay”, that makes me wonder if the CP leader has something he wants to “get of his chest”,

      ” He was so sure that homosexuality was a choice, he bet his own sexuality on it.

      “Do you think you could choose to be gay if that is the case?,” he was asked.

      “Sure. Sure I could,” he responded.

      “You could choose to be gay?,” he was asked again.

      “Yea, if I wanted to,’ he replied. “

      See: http://www.3news.co.nz/Colin-Craig-Gay-parents-not-good-role-models/tabid/1607/articleID/262919/Default.aspx

      • Populuxe1 2.2.1

        If he wants to prove that, I will offer myself as a sacrifice – but only under clinical trial conditions and with professional observers present. And then I want to bleach my brain.

        • felix 2.2.1.1

          “only under clinical trial conditions and with professional observers present.”

          Pretty specific, Pop. But that’s ok, we all got a freaky side.

          • Populuxe1 2.2.1.1.1

            This is science, Felix. And if it turns out he can’t “choose” to be gay, we will go on to phase two – which I like to fondly call “Clockwork Orange” time.

      • mike e 2.2.2

        Frank it sounds like he is really struggling to come out of the closet

  3. prism 3

    Gay married couples can only make the world a better place and strengthen society. Marriage says commitment, it says bonding between people, it says support and affection, and spells out legal responsibilities and sharing. Pity that The Dragon Tattoo writer and his partner didn’t marry. She in what I thought would be a modern Scandinavian country has no standing when it comes to his estate. This has happened to so many living togethers, pushed out by family and not even involved in their loved one’s funeral.

    And marriage is respected, more than a civil union. There was a golf tournament for married couples in Nelson I think, and a great upset when couples who weren’t married just living together were banned. Some people like the celebration of a marriage ceremony so much they go through it a number of times with different partners, sometimes renewing vows with the same partner. Devotion to each other isn’t only found between men and women – men and men, women and women can feel this bond too, marriage gives the real status to stable relationships that they deserve.

    The attitude that marriage is sacred, only between men and women and never shall it be otherwise doesn’t look at the quality of marriages after the ceremonials are over. But once you are married, there are ways to diminish that state such as beating up your wife your children or even your husband. And some women marry serially for the half split of goodies given out in divorce settlements. Is that what they got married for? Are they turning marriage into a business to enrich themselves? Like many modern churches that act as businesses but use the sacred mantle as a wealth making tax avoidance scheme?

  4. BM 4

    Why didn’t Labour push for gay marriage when they were in charge? the only reason I can think of is that they didn’t want to upset all the Catholics who vote Labour.

    • prism 4.1

      BM Irrelevant.

      • BM 4.1.1

        Not really, as the same applies to National.

        There’s quite a large religious block that votes National, are they ready for Gay marriage, I’m not sure.

    • Blue 4.2

      Labour’s Civil Unions bill was a closely fought one, BM. It passed 65 to 55 on a conscience vote.

      If it had been gay marriage Labour was proposing, I would say the bill wouldn’t have passed back then.

      The public mood has changed since 2004, and I think a gay marriage bill would pass now. So many countries around the world are now passing or looking at passing legislation on this.

      It should be very interesting to see how the vote goes this time. Labour, the Progressives and the Greens largely got Civil Unions over the line, along with half of Act and a few conscience votes in favour from parties that mostly opposed it.

      • Pete George 4.2.1

        Blue’s right, Labour got through what was deemed possible at the time.

        The public has changed a lot since then and seems ready for full equal marriage rights rather than a stepping stone second class status. Civil unions being in place already makes the change to equal status much easier.

    • Murray Olsen 4.3

      Because Labour were cowards. It’s a long time since they’ve done anything that took real political courage.

      • Populuxe1 4.3.1

        Um, no – it was because Labour realised you can’t change the world overnight and something like this requires baby steps.

  5. lostinsuburbia 5

    Colin Craig can go hang out with Louis Crimp, I’m sure they are singing from the same hymn sheet on this issue.

    I didn’t choose to be gay, in fact life would be a lot easier if I wasnt. But I am and is it so wrong to expect the same level of rights under the law? We’re not asking for special treatment, we just want to be treated the same as everyone else.

    • marsman 5.1

      I well remember Fran Wilde’s Homosexual Law Reform Bill and the nasty, ignorant, mainly male homophobes who travelled the country preaching ‘They will be into our twelve year olds’ which was a watershed for us gay men and lesbians who had pushed our way into their venues because we all stood up and ROARED.

      Personally I don’t give a rat’s arse whether people of whatever mix get married. It’s never been my desire to be married but have had a number of loving and satisfying long ‘gay relationships’.
      However if the likes of Colin Craig get on their hindlegs and do a tour of hate-mongering homophobia I will go out and confront them and ROAR, and I’m positive I will not be the only one.

  6. tracey 6

    The stupid thing is straight people dont ” respect the sanctity of marriage” given the high divorce and de facto rates. Times have changed. The bible has said all kinds of things that are no longer acceptable.

    • lostinsuburbia 6.1

      I think this video from the West Wing sums it up

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mfl01HnUrU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    • Dr Terry 6.2

      The Bible has always said things that are non-acceptable. The Bible’s main theme is Love, so for heaven’s sake allow people who love, to marry, and lay aside prejudices that lack love.

    • weka 6.3

      It’s not just about the bible though, it’s also homophobia.

      • mike e 6.3.1

        Homophobia and racism are mental disorders
        Insecurity about ones own race or sexuality.
        Low educational achievement and self esteem are common amongst this grouping .
        When someone is worried about what other people do .
        Is usually a sign they are a latent homosexual reading the Kinsey report would be a good start for these people.
        Fundamentalist autocratic types who promote homophobia , research has shown this group are twice as likely to be paedophiles a claim they often make about Gay people who research has shown are no more likely than the average person.
        The same sort of disgusting rhetoric was used by the KKK to say that all black men were rapists.
        Nothing has changed in redneck country.
        Graeme Capill was the last politician to promote this redneck BS!

  7. KJT 7

    Anyone who still thinks that Politicians are a better protector of minority rights, than democracy, please take note.

  8. bad12 8

    Gay marriage is one hell of a big yawn of a subject, my rule of thumb is that what adults choose to get up to in their private lives is their bizz SO LONG AS it aint hurting anyone,

    Here in lies my question tho,is gay marriage as such being used as the back door to allow same sex couples the right of adoption,

    On a personal level i have no real quantifiable objection to such adoption being legal, BUT, i aint ever likely in my advanced state to be the subject in the middle of a same sex adoption, and,while i have seen no evidence of harm caused to such children involved in such adoptions some thought needs be expended in that area on their behalf…

    • Tigger 8.1

      Actually this is a yawner too. Good parents are good parents, sexuality does not matter. This will be used as a wolf whistle against gay marriage. Think of the children! Funnily enough, those Nats who do this are also slashing welfare and voting down paid parental leave.

      • bad12 8.1.1

        That is hardly an answer, i for one can see a problem for kids adopted into such a relationship at the point where such children come to a realization that their parental configuration is not the ‘norm’ of their peers,

        As i have already said, same sex couples being married has to be one of the biggest YAWNIES issues of our time, the fact that we are having this discussion at all shows just how slow and primitive the race,and, the political process is,

        As a boring old ‘hetero’ i have no interest in the configurations within the institution of marriage and as an individual with a ‘free’ mind my usual thoughts on the issue of marriage is that most of it’s advocates belong in one,an institution that is,

        However, IF the legalization of same sex marriage is also the allowance of those in same sex marriages the ‘right’ of adoption then i feel that changes the discussion entirely…

    • prism 8.2

      bad12 8
      One thing at a time. Let’s look at gay marriage as a single entity and anything else be left to later. It will be on its own in reality a small step for the world and one big step for mankind and womankind.

    • weka 8.3

      I would have thought it was a given that once gay marriage is legal, then adoption by married gay couples would follow. AFAIK, single gay people can already adopt (don’t know how easy it is). Not sure what legislation prevents gay couples from adopting now.
       
      The idea that kids would be damaged by being raised by gay parents if pretty ridiculous. Unless you are also worried about all those gay kids being raised by straight parents, because let’s face it, this is what it comes down to – that the sexuality of the parent will somehow taint the child and oh how terrible to have more gay kids in the world.

  9. kiwi_prometheus 9

    lostinsuburbia -> “I think this video from the West Wing sums it up”

    A botoxed, pancake make up, yankee celeb actor, from the TV sitcom wasteland, reading a teleprompter scripted pro gay marriage tirade?

    Sums it up.

    • lostinsuburbia 9.1

      No sums out that the bible is a book written in ancient times that is full of ridiculous rulings. Sure there are some good themes in it about respecting other people etc but it must be placed in context as a book written by ancient people who were no where as advanced as our society (their belief in a creation myth, the flooding of the entire world, and the turning of a woman into a pillar of salt)

      • Populuxe1 9.1.1

        Actually there really isn’t much on homosexuality in the Bible. The sin of Sodom was lack of hospitality according to Ezekiel 16:49, and these days I doubt we’d condone handing over one’s daughters to be raped instead. Leviticus 18 and 20 are hard to take seriously as Leviticus also advocates things like putting to death people who wear mixed fibres and cut their hair, and in any case looking at the original it seems pretty clear the reference was to the sacred male prostitutes of the Canaanite goddess Shapash who occupied parts of the temple. The other references are Paul, but he hates all sex and women particularly, advocating for total celibacy for everyone.
        Jesus said be nice to other people and pay your taxes. He never said anything about homosexuality – and he was very fond of the beardless apostle John. Also there is David and Jonathan, and Ruth and Naomi, but you never hear much about that when the Fundies get going.

  10. kiwi_prometheus 10

    Marriage is between a man and a women. Only they can procreate. That deserves special status.

    • bad12 10.1

      Laugh, definitely, my modernist hetero view is that ‘they’ need an Institution…

      • kiwi_prometheus 10.1.1

        No they already have one, marriage. Why don’t the pro ‘gay marriage’ advocates get their own one instead of trying to take marriage?

        • Pete George 10.1.1.1

          No one is trying to “take marriage”.

          Those who believe that marriage has religious connections won’t be affected.
          Those who believe that marriage should involve procreating won’t be affected.
          Those who get married for love and partnership won’t be affected.
          Those who are in arranged marriages won’t be affected.
          Those who arev in mariages of convenience won’t be affected.
          Those who married for money won’t be affected.
          Those who can get married for many other reasons won’t be affected.

          All it does is make marriage an equal option for some people that are currently excluded.

          • kiwi_prometheus 10.1.1.1.1

            Excluded because they don’t qualify.

            It’s between a man and a woman. Only they procreate, it is central to the continuation of the human species.

            Change that definition and it is no longer marriage.

            So you are ‘taking’ marriage and turning it into something else.

            • Pascal's bookie 10.1.1.1.1.1

              Point me to where it talks about procreation in the Marriage Act.

            • weka 10.1.1.1.1.2

              Lesbian women can still procreate. And if you say they need a man, then what about a couple where he is infertile, and they need donor sperm? Should they be denied marriage too, because they can’t procreate on their own?

            • Clashman 10.1.1.1.1.3

              What about married people who have chosen not to procreate? I know of several who can have children but have chosen not to. Should they have there marriage annulled?

            • lostinsuburbia 10.1.1.1.1.4

              Guess we better start genetic testing of all couples to make sure they are compatible.

            • mike e 10.1.1.1.1.5

              kp the only thing you can procreate is bigotry!
              So all the hetro couples who have children who neglect and abuse their children and others ie Capill and yourself included the spiritually deluded.
              Gay couples have lower rate of child abuse than you and your cohorts its time you started
              protesting against your own kind then people may have some respect for you
              you are obviously a religious nutter.
              Religion which has an even murkier history on child abuse of all kinds yuk! your just a bunch of zealous bigoted hypocrites clean up your own morals before you even try with others that are superior to yours.

        • bad12 10.1.1.2

          ahh, my point was far too oblique for you, try an institution where they read your mind…

    • The special status of successful procreation is having children. Marriage isn’t necessaary for that. Many people get married knowing they will never have children in the marriage. Including me.

      Those that want an extra special status can create their own.

      • kiwi_prometheus 10.2.1

        So what if a few heterosexual married don’t have kids, that doesn’t change the principle.

        All you got there is some cold philosophical technicality.

        • Pascal's bookie 10.2.1.1

          Your principle is that gays cannot marry, because they cannot procreate.

          Therfore any couple that cannot procreate cannot marry.

          If you want to amend the Marriage Act so that infertile couples cannot marry, have at it. But at the moment people who cannot procreate can in fact marry.

        • QoT 10.2.1.2

          k_p, do you realise that transgendered people whose gender has been legally changed can marry someone of the opposite sex? Right now? Even though they may completely lack any biological ability to ever have kids, or at least to have kids with their cissexual partner?

          (I ask because one of my most treasured memories is of Georgina Beyer on Eye to Eye breaking this news to Brian Tamaki. Poor little man, he had no idea the big scary transgender woman had basic human rights.)

    • Draco T Bastard 10.3

      Ah, a fuckwit spouting lies and bigotry.

      Plenty of gay people out there with children.

      • kiwi_prometheus 10.3.1

        Yeah from their.previous marriage to the opposite sex.

        Or a Nigerian gayby bought off the internet. LOL

        Again, marriage is between a man and a woman. Only they can procreate.

        • McFlock 10.3.1.1

          Really?
          That’s in the Marriage Act “man and woman, because only they can procreate”? 
               
           Methinks you’re confusing bible-thumping with secular law. 

          • infused 10.3.1.1.1

            No, as defined: The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.

            You’re actually changing the meaning of marriage.

            • millsy 10.3.1.1.1.1

              didnt know you were a god bother as well infused…

            • McFlock 10.3.1.1.1.2

              Words can’t change meanings, or acquire additional meanings?
                   
              The gay divorcee thought same-sex marriage was terrific

        • millsy 10.3.1.2

          So what about those married couples who choose not to have children?

        • Draco T Bastard 10.3.1.3

          Not always. Gay people are still fertile and may get together with another gay couple to have children. That gives the children four or more loving parents.

          Your ignorance and hate is shining through for all to see.

          BTW:

          Various types of same-sex marriages have existed,[75] ranging from informal, unsanctioned relationships to highly ritualized unions.[76]

          While it is a relatively new practice to grant same-sex couples the same form of legal marital recognition as commonly granted to mixed-sex couples, there is some history of recorded same-sex unions around the world.[77] It is believed that same-sex unions were celebrated in Ancient Greece and Rome,[77] some regions of China, such as Fujian, and at certain times in ancient European history.

          Ancient Greece and Rome – the birthplaces of modern Western culture.

          • kiwi_prometheus 10.3.1.3.1

            These are all outlier examples again. So what.

            We all know that marriage is between a man and woman. It is only that combination that makes procreation possible. That’s what makes marriage so important and special.

            Sure a few couples choose careers over children, or can’t for health reasons etc. A few exceptions don’t change the rule.

            Ditto for adoption, surrogacy or buying a Nigerian gayby on eBay.

            What’s with this obsession with marriage by gays who want in or to get even – “It’s MY right! It’s MY right!”?

            Marriage is between a man and woman. Changing that in anyway means it is not marriage anymore no matter what you want to pretend.

            • felix 10.3.1.3.1.1

              I think you’ll find that procreation happens or not, entirely regardless of marriage.

              The causal link is between fucking and procreation, not marriage and procreation, and the human body simply doesn’t give a flying one what you think about it kp.

              • kiwi_prometheus

                Hi felix! wondered when you were going to rock on up.

                Who was talking about a causal link?

                Flying off at a tangent again, but then manhaters tend to do that.

                • felix

                  “Who was talking about a causal link?”

                  I was, see above.

                  You reckon marriage is for procreation and that without the ability to procreate it can’t be marriage. Yes?

                  Well I don’t think there’s ever been a recorded instance of a marriage resulting in procreation. Ever. And it would be nothing short of a miracle if it ever occurred, which it won’t, because that’s not where babies come from.

                  All the evidence points to fucking, which as I’m sure you know has nothing to do with marriage.

            • Draco T Bastard 10.3.1.3.1.2

              It doesn’t matter if they’re outliers. It’s their right to have the state recognise their relationship as they see it.

              We all know that marriage is between a man and woman.

              The majority of people in this country happen to disagree with you.

              Changing that in anyway means it is not marriage anymore no matter what you want to pretend.

              Wrong. Marriage, just like all cultural rules, is a social construct and the society as a whole and not the bigots within it get to define it however they like.

            • Populuxe1 10.3.1.3.1.3

              People seem to have been managing to have children without getting married since there were first people.

    • gobsmacked 10.4

      Marriage is between a man and a women. Only they can procreate.

      Looking forward to a lot more of this over the coming months. Anthony R0bins is wrong – it’s not a useful distraction for the Nats, it’s a potential wedge. (That’s not the reason I support Louisa’s bill … it’s the right thing to do, period. But the divisions on the Right will be an enjoyable by-product).

      Watch as various talkback Tories successfully alienate “ordinary New Zealanders”, precisely by assuming they are the ordinary (i.e. normal) ones. Oblivious to the realities of 2012, they assume that their narrow world is the real one.

      As this worldview is based on belief, not evidence or logic, it is impervious to reason. No point trying to reason with them, just let them froth and lose. “Give ‘em enough rope”, etc.

      John Key is amoral, but he’s not stupid. He won’t be siding with the bigots – because of polls, not principles. This bill will pass, Colin Craig (and maybe Winston) will benefit, and – much sooner than he wanted – Key will be under pressure to start “ruling in or out” (so will Shearer, and the answer’s obvious, though Labour’s so-called strategists are dumb enough to get it wrong).

      Interesting times.

      • Pascal's bookie 10.4.1

        Agree. There will be all sorts of discussions about ‘bottom lines’ for coalition talks and the conservatives will be in full poo flinging flight dragging up all sorts of questions the rest of the country has already settled an opinion on.

      • bad12 10.4.2

        Makes me wonder tho, the Roy Morgan Poll for the first time ever decides to include the Conservatives in its polling allowing them 3% of electoral support in it’s polling,

        The same week as the Lousia Wall legislation is pulled from the ballot,

        We need to understand one thing here when we look at the ‘politics’ involved and that is with the present numbers, John(the convicted)Banks, the ‘Hairdo’ from Ohariu + the Poodles National are for all money gone in 2014,

        Don’t think for a moment that Slippery,Captain Panic Pants and the rest of the National Party strategists are just going to let themselves be brushed aside by the electorate,

        National need another coalition Party that will deliver them more than 1 seat at the next election, and, should the Conservatives gain the oxygen necessary to have National think they can be assured of that 3% of electoral support National will gift the Conservative Party leader a safe National seat just as they gifted the flake Banks Epsom,

        Therein lies the political danger inherent in Lousia Wall’s legislation, my thoughts,at the risk of getting screeched at is that The Left should ensure that either Labour or the Greens (preferably both),have this legislation as part of their policy leading into 2014 and starve the moral/religious right of any oxygen on the issue by damping down the debate/expectations of the current legislation…

        • gobsmacked 10.4.2.1

          @Bad12

          Of course you’re right, the Nats will need partners, and they may accommodate Craig one way or another.

          But I think that will prove more trouble than it’s worth. There will be all kinds of matters arising … do they pick Craig over Winston, do they destroy ACT, do they lose more swing voters than they pick up on the Right, do they treat voters in Rodney or somewhere else the same way they treat voters in Epsom, does Key have another “cup of tea” with a leader who (by that time) will have called Key the Devil for his vote on Satan’s Sodomy, etc, etc …

          National = Brand Key. For that “nice” brand, hugging a loose unit like Craig is much more dangerous than hugging Banks the reliable, true blue Nat.

          The essential point about religious zealots like Craig (plus Tamaki et al) is that they don’t do grubby compromise. Somebody like Hide or Peters or Banks or Dunne could make all kinds of noise, but ultimately they’re politicians first … they know how far to push their luck. Colin Craig is doing God’s work. And, er … God only knows where that can lead.

          • bad12 10.4.2.1.1

            I find your last paragraph a wee bit naive, the religious right would sell their souls to the devil himself,(nah scratch that insert herself, can’t be being sexist here can i),to (a)get seats in the Parliament,and (b),gain a little lee-way from National to impose some of ‘their’ morals upon us all,

            If the Conservatives cannot gain an electorate on their own National will happily gift them a safe National seat so long as there is a good chance of the Conservatives bringing in 1 or 2 more MPs on top of the gifted seat,

            Roy Morgan didn’t just start polling the Conservative vote for the first time this week for the sheer hell of it, Roy either smelt something in the wind, or, Roy is an actual part of the plan to give the Conservative Party electoral oxygen,

            I will take it as written for now that it was pure coincidence that Roy Morgan started polling the Conservatives at this point in the electoral cycle AND the Clerk of the House just happened to pull Lousia Wall’s bill outta the draft at the same time, i have no evidence that said Clerk has acted with some dishonest deliberation in putting this particular legislation befor the House at this particular time so i will not accuse Him of deliberately having done so…

            • gobsmacked 10.4.2.1.1.1

              Last 2 paras are silly.

              First para … look at the record. Christian Coalition 1996, Destiny/Family, failed launch of Christian party in Clark’s third term (Copeland, Tamaki etc – they fought in public and killed themselves before they were born), Kiwi Party failing dismally, Craig killing Banks in Auckland mayoralty, etc.

              You are thinking pragmatically, but you need to try and see it through eyes of a True Believer. They are against Sin. Compromise is Sin. Why do churches have schisms every five minutes?

              Second para … already covered. The losses outweigh the gains. Gifting a seat means embracing Craig. Another Cup of Tea. The last one almost lost the unloseable election.

              David Farrar is adamantly opposed to Colin Craig. He sees where this would go. Key and Joyce do too. Losses major, gains minor. Basic electoral maths.

              • bad12

                Losses major,gains minor??? if as i suppose National are at this point in the electoral cycle are planning on gifting The Conservatives a seat your failure to see the elephant in the room is both laughable and a sheer tragedy,(no wonder the left spends so much of its time out of Government with thinking like yours),

                ACT if you havn’t noticed, was well f**ked befor the 2011 election and we all knew that even with the insertion of Banks as the ACT candidate who spent the election chanting john key john key john key like a love struck school girl ACT as a Party had not even the chance of a dead cats bounce in 2011…

            • Pascal's bookie 10.4.2.1.1.2

              Agree with gobsmacked.

              (This ended up getting way long, so there’s a tl;dr version down the bottom, feel free to scroll)

              There’s a lot of talk about how the Cons could provide National with it’s partner, and it’s a really superficial way of understanding MMP. It misses.

              What counts is the blocks right? The potential govts. Shuffling votes within those blocks doesn’t affect the outcome as the block is still getting the same number of votes. But what it does affect is the shape of the government that block will form. And that’s what can really shift the middle voters. It’s that secondary effect that is the crucial one, because it determines which block grows.

              So, if the cons start growing where do their votes come from?

              Labour : They’ll get a few, no doubt. But not many I think. Most of the voters that will shift over this will have already shifted. But there will be some.

              Greens None worth mentioning. The Greens and the Cons are just natural enemies, culturally. The urban liberal story about the greens is just true fact.

              Mana Could lose some, but I think not many. And this won’t affect the size of the left block unless Mana gets enough votes for a second MP in any case.

              National This will obviously be where most of the Cons votes have to come from.

              So what happens next, if the Cons are growing?

              National is still at historic highs. Key hoovered up an enormous amount of votes from people that had voted Labour. Why did they vote for Key, but not for Brash?

              What are those people going to think about a right wing block government with the Conservatives having a say?

              There is no sign that those people who voted against Brash would be keen on that. It was the Brethren crap that killed Brash.

              So I think that’s where we see people drifting from National to Labour, and some to the Greens. These will be urban liberals, (and I don’t necessarily think they’ll all be in the cities, read ‘urban’ as stereotype)

              —————
              tl;drSo the basic math comes down to something like:

              Do the Conservatives pick up more votes from the left block, than National loses from liberals?

              The numbers don’t have to be huge for it to be a bad news story for the tory. That’s why they are freaking out.

              Check out the kiwiblog threads on this. It’s all righties fighting righties, and it’s viscious. I think that so far at least, it looks like the right is going to get wedged on this one.

              It’s one of the rareish times when the right thing to do, is also the politically winning thing to do.

              • bad12

                there is a basic flaw in all of the elongated rant that you have put up as a reply to my previous comments,

                The best descriptive that can be applied fairly to this basic flaw in the whole of your comment is that it is utter BULLSHIT,

                it is obvious that you have not even checked the FACTS to ascertain what % of the Party vote The Conservative Party gained in the 2011 election,

                The Conservative Party gained 2.65% of the Party vote in the 2011 election,and as i said to gobsmacked above in my reply to him/her, your failure to see the elephant in the room is both laughable and a tragedy,(if your any gauge of the left’s intellect small wonder said left spends so much time in opposition),

                The fact that you have not even bothered to check the FACTS of what % of the Party vote the Conservatives gained in that 2011 election makes your whole rant as something made up inside your mind and as you have failed to see that 2011 % you will further not know that had the Slippery National Government gifted the Conservative Party Leader a safe National Party seat then the Conservatives would in fact have had 4 seats in the current Parliament,

                To gain the vote of those 4 seats National would have had to lose one of its electorates in the gifting of that seat to the Conservatives but would have gained another 3 support votes in the house as well as the vote of that gifted to the Conservatives,

                Lucky us, National took a gamble on getting a dead cats bounce out of the corpse of the ACT Party and chose not to back the ‘new’ kid on the block the Conservatives,

                I doubt for one moment that National in 2014 will ignore the Conservatives,the opposite will be true, faced with losing the 2014 election National will be falling all over itself to gift the Conservative Party Leader a safe electoral seat…

                • gobsmacked

                  @bad12

                  PB and I have both answered this at length, so there’s not much point going on. You choose to believe that people who take the trouble to comment in great detail, to explain the argument, aren’t even aware of last year’s results. Perhaps you could read it all again, slowly.

                  Ultimately your point is …

                  National will be falling all over itself to gift the Conservative Party Leader a safe electoral seat

                  And both PB and I have explained what that would mean. Can’t be bothered to do it yet again, you either understand or you don’t.

                  • bad12

                    Your basic electoral math are marked an F for failed…

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      Well I’ll take that under advisement. But seeing you seem to think Roy Morgan decided to start polling conservative voters, whatever that means (do you think they have some in a box?), I’ll be honest and say that I won’t be giving it too much weight.

                    • bad12

                      PB, i am not sure if you are being deliberately abstruse but it is pretty simple to understand that ”for the first time Roy Morgan has decided to include the Conservative Party in it’s published poll”,

                      In other words Roy Morgan has never had a % for the Conservatives in any of it’s published polls and the fact that i have to explain this to you makes me feel as if i address a five year old,

                      2.65% was the Conservatives share of the party vote at the 2011 election so i am assuming that is where Roy Morgan is taking it’s present level of 3% for the Conservatives in it’s latest poll,

                      There is of course another reason that the Conservative Party is included in the latest Roy Morgan at that level and that is that they are actually polling at that 3% as shown in the Roy Morgan poll,

                      The reason why Roy Morgan has belatedly included the Conservative Party in it’s published poll???,

                      My take on this,as per the rumors of National’s internal polling having shown a collapse of support both for the Party, and, for the first time a similar collapse of support for Slippery the Prime Minister not reflected in the mainstream polls, National have now realized that they need the Conservatives to gain a 3rd term in 2014 and Roy Morgan’s belated inclusion of the Conservatives in it’s polling is simply to give publicity, therefor electoral oxygen to that Party…

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      The reason they are included in the published poll is probably that this is the first time they’ve shown up in the results of the poll.

                      Take a look at previous results for “others” that is where they were recorded previously along with the Alliance and legalise pot and all the others.

                      The election result has nothing to do with a poll, so I’m not sure of your point there.

                      But the fact remains. they are now showing up in polls, and national’s on line mouth pieces are freaking out about it and their comment sections are full of righties arguing with each other and calling each other names.

                      If national gifts the Cons a seat, if they cut a deal in the campaign, what do you think will happen next?

                      That’s what you haven’t addressed. You seem to think that that wouldn’t affect National’s vote. Look at how people, including the media, reacted to the Banks deal.

                      I think the public’s appetite for thsoe shennanagins has faded for starters, and their appetite for a deal with the Cons will be even less.

                    • bad12

                      ”Look at how people reacted to the Banks deal”, (deliberately forgetting the media reaction as that reaction was more to do with beating up National over the Ambrose taping of the conversation),

                      Gosh when i LOOK at what happened, i see National +Banks+’the Hairdo’ which is a Government,

                      Had National also gifted the Conservative Party a safe electoral seat in 2011 the result would have been National+Banks+’the Hairdo’+3 more for a majority not requiring the Maori Party,

                      I wonder what YOU see when you LOOK at what happened at the 2011 election…

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      Yeah, I deliberately forgot about the media reaction, which is why I specifically said to bear it in mind. :roll:

                      You still haven’t addressed the point of how such a deal would affect swing voters. Your assumption is that it wouldn’t affect them at all. That’s the only way your simplistic adding up of the votes they got *without such a deal* makes sense.

                      The fact of a deal being in place, will influnce voters. Thta’s why they make the fucking deals. they weigh the pros and cons, and do what works.

                      Now why do you think they didn’t do a deal with the zcons last time B12? Riddle me that one. They were pollling better than ACT, so why didn’t they cut them in if it was such an obvious move? And why are they attacking them no? And why are the right wing comment threads all slagging each other off?

                      Could it be that internal polling tells them how swing voters would view such a deal? would that explain the observable facts?

                    • bad12

                      Can you show me a link to this ”better polling” by the Conservatives leading up to the 2011 election???

                      The right wing blog sites??? why the hell would i bother to read such rubbish, the meaningless gibberish fermented by the Farrer’s and blubber-boys of this world are best left for them to read,

                      Small sects of the right arguing are meaningless, they all will still be voting right,

                      The fact that a deal was in place over Epsom only goes to show that right wing voters will do as they are told by the hierarchy,

                      You are now dancing ever faster on the head of a pin making the discussion meaningless in terms of my original intent in mentioning the first inclusion of the Conservatives in a Roy Morgan poll,

                      The proof of the pudding will be in the lead up to the 2014 election where i fully expect the Slippery National Government to do a deal with the Colin Craig Conservatives,

                      My equation vis a vis such a deal= deal done chance of National 3rd term, deal not done bye bye National in 2014…

                    • gobsmacked

                      @B12

                      The fact that a deal was in place over Epsom only goes to show that right wing voters will do as they are told by the hierarchy

                      The deal in Epsom began in 2005, and evolved over three elections. The message in the last two elections was “Vote for me, get Key”. By 2011 it was totally, almost absurdly, loyal to Key. Banks talked about little else.

                      Do you think Craig will send the same loyal message (in Rodney, or any other electorate)?

                      Do you think Colin Craig will (simultaneously, somehow) pick up votes by slagging off Key?

                      Do you think National will embrace Craig, or attack him? Or … both?

                      Let’s assume I’m a fool. If you know National’s strategy, could you please explain it, by answering these questions?

                    • bad12

                      Yes i assumed i was addressing a fool at the point of you first commenting on what i was saying,

                      As nothing you have said further to that first comment has served to disabuse me of the original assumption there is little point in further discussion within this post on the issue vis a vis the Conservatives, their polling, and the coincidence of the Lousia Wall Legislation being pulled form the ballot as such will only serve to further drag the discussion away from it’s original intention,

                      I am sure the issue will arise for further discussion at some other point in time…

                    • gobsmacked

                      That first comment raised half a dozen questions, none of which you have addressed. Subsequently both PB and I have raised numerous further points, and you’ve ignored them too. Which is kind of rude, frankly.

                      At least your last sentence made sense.

      • Populuxe1 10.4.3

        To quote Dorothy Parker, “Heterosexuality isn’t normal, it’s just common.”

      • Populuxe1 10.4.4

        Gosh darn it and tarnation! Animals procreate all the time – we’d better start pairing off and marrying up our livestock. While we’re at it, we should probably make them wear clothes too – what if one of our ladyfolk should accidentally clap eyes on a nekkid animal?

    • marsman 10.5

      @ kiwi_prometheus. Yawn.

    • QoT 10.6

      So you would also advocate that the State forcibly divorce couples who choose or are forced to remain childless?

      I mean, if procreation’s your thing, surely infertile people don’t deserve to sneak in to your speshul liddle institution.

      • lostinsuburbia 10.6.1

        Don’t forget the medals for women who lots of kids (within wedlock of course!). There was a central European country in the 1930s that use to do it.

    • Daveosaurus 10.7

      Yes, because the world is grossly underpopulated and the entire human species is in danger of falling below the numbers essential for its continued survival.

      Oh wait….

    • Carol 10.8

      And what the world needs now is everyone procreating as much as possible. :roll:

      Or, we could encourage people to procreate less, and everyone to provide as much nurturing and care to children as possible.

    • Populuxe1 10.9

      Except the ones with fertility problems and older couples, but wait… They’re allowed to get married…

    • mike e 10.10

      kp rev Graham Capill would agree with you

  11. Dr Terry 11

    Christian Colin Craig asserts that we must “never change what already exists” Now were this true, today’s society would precede the dark ages. We are always changing things that already exist; Craig’s own Master (Jesus) radically changed what already existed in politics and religion in his day on earth.

    Is Colin presenting himself as the final arbiter of what is constitutes the “normal” in human life? There is no such thing as “normal”- there are but variations upon whatever the norm pretends to be. Every heterosexual person is to varying extents made up of male and female genes, so what the heck is “normal” Colin? (Possibly you fear your own more feminine traits).

    Then Mr Craig tries to assure us that “people choose to be gay”and with little intelligence completely contradicts himself with the rider, “Many as a result of being abused as children”. I suppose that is as good a wild guess as any (totally unsubstantiated). Colin’s best skills might lie in the composition of fairy stories.Moreover, do any of us possess altogether free choice over anything? Our choices and decisions in life arise from a myriad of circumstances (not limited the abuse in childhood).

    Key, of course, waits until he sees which way the wind is blowing. It will not be easy to fall out of line with his many red-necked adherents.

    This debate concerns loving human relationships, and is too often spoiled by acrimony. Let’s attend to the vast number of inter-relating concerns in country and world that are the diametric opposite of what Love stands for. Thank God if women can love women, men love men – thank God for any semblance of love in society, for it is rather in short supply.

    The issue at hand is gay marriage and raising the topic of adoption by gays is, of course, nothing but the old tactic of distraction. Once we have settled the question of gay marriage, then we can turn to the question of adoption, if this can be done intelligently and not with unproven and poisonous biases.

    • “The issue at hand is gay marriage”

      I disagree with that. The issue is equal rights to get married no matter what your sexuality is.

      • KJT 11.1.1

        For once I agree with PG.

      • kiwi_prometheus 11.1.2

        You have the equal right like every other NZer to get married to a woman if you are man and vice versa.

        • Pascal's bookie 11.1.2.1

          Do you think closeted homosexuals marrying heterosexuals is a good idea for the raising of children?

          How, odd.

          • kiwi_prometheus 11.1.2.1.1

            Whose forcing them to? There are Civil Unions to recognise same sex relationships.

            • Pascal's bookie 11.1.2.1.1.1

              I thought you were saying that if they want to get married now then they can, and that we don’t need to change the law to make the marriages legally availableto them, better.

              I admit though, that this thought was bsed on the idea that you could string a few propositions together to form a syllogism. I make that mistake quite often when talking about things with conservatives.

              • kiwi_prometheus

                Pete George claimed gays equal rights to marriage were being violated.

                They don’t have rights to marriage.

                Marriage is between a man and a woman. It’s not marriage otherwise.

                If you are attracted to the same sex then you can’t marry. You can get a Civil Union. Why would you want to go on the down low just to get married?

                What’s gays fixation with marriage?

                • Pascal's bookie

                  Here’s what you said:

                  “You have the equal right like every other NZer to get married to a woman if you are man and vice versa.”

                  so should they or shouldn’t they?

                  Or were you just being a dick?

                  • kiwi_prometheus

                    Rights aren’t about whether you should but whether you can.

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      So you were being a dick then. Shocked I tell you, just shocked.

                      have you found the part of the marriage act where it talks about procreation yet? It’s kind of crucial to your argument. It’d be a knock out blow, you should get right on to that.

                    • Populuxe1

                      I’m sure I just heard Helen Lovejoy shriek “Won’t somebody please think of the children!”
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

                • felix

                  “Marriage is between a man and a woman. It’s not marriage otherwise.”

                  I know a few woodworkers who’d disagree with you there kp. And Jesus was a bit of a woodworker. And they’ve got a magical book that proves they’re correct too. (A dictionary)

                  “What’s gays fixation with marriage?”

                  What’s women’s fixation with voting? One man one vote, it’s not even a vote if you’re not a man, obviously.

                  • kiwi_prometheus

                    Arguments for extensions to who votes are not arguments for extensions to who can get married, you disingenuous little pussy cat, you!

                  • QoT

                    Sure, k_p. You say “I define X as Y so if it’s not-Y it’s not-X”, felix copies that exact premise back to you, and when you refuse to take the point, felix is the one being disingenuous.

                    BTW, still no comment on the fact that people who have different legal genders yet identical biological sex and thus can never procreate can currently get married, making your tautological bullshit a load of … tautological bullshit?

                • RedBlooded

                  What’s your fixation with not allowing equal rights? Wailing “Marriage is between a man and a woman” endlessly still wont make it right under the law once this law passes. Hopefully equal rights are on the way and despite your fears and wailing the sky will not fall in and your marriage will in no way be affected.

                • Populuxe1

                  What’s gays fixation with marriage?

                  You’re the one that seems to be unhealthily preoccupied with the subject.

    • kiwi_prometheus 11.2

      Dr Terry -> “There is no such thing as “normal”.”

      Is that your professional opinion, Dr Terry?

      Marriage between a man and woman is normal mate. Just ask any NZer, you willfind they think there is such a thing as ‘normal’ otherwise the word wouldn’t enjoy such popular usage.

      Your semantic game to render the word ‘normal’ meaningless is a laugh.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.2.1

        Just ask any NZer, you willfind they think there is such a thing as ‘normal’ otherwise the word wouldn’t enjoy such popular usage.

        Um, either NZHerald or Stuff did on their online polling (which is notoriously inaccurate) and 80% of people thought that gay marriage was normal, i.e, they were supportive of it. What you’re really showing us with that sentence is your own bigotry and ignorance.

        • kiwi_prometheus 11.2.1.1

          Ok first you confess the polls don’t mean shit but then you use them to conclude I am ignorant and bigoted.

          Irrational.

          • NickS 11.2.1.1.1

            Awww, cupcake, can’t you grok polling 101? In that onlines polls due to their self-selective nature are a lot more biased than a phone poll that has random, stratified selection, and thus statistically are pretty fucking useless.

          • Draco T Bastard 11.2.1.1.2

            Actually, the whole point of me saying that they’re inaccurate is because of the bias of the readers of both Stuff and NZHerald. Generally speaking they’re the group that you’d expect to be most against gay marriage and they’re for it.

            BTW, I linked up a bit to an actual poll by TVNZ and that says that the people are ~75% in favour of gay marriage.

    • weka 11.3

      “Christian Colin Craig asserts that we must “never change what already exists””
       
      I think what he means is what already exists now. Otherwise there would be no JudeoChristian god, who was a latecomer to the scene anyway.

      • McFlock 11.3.1

        An ncremental change is disturbingly close to evolution, and we can’t have that…

      • Populuxe1 11.3.2

        So we go back to slavery, forbidding interracial marriages, killing disobedient children, concubines and so forth?

    • millsy 11.4

      If Colin Craig had his way, this country will be Taliban controlled Afghanistan. No politically correct social engineering there..

  12. millsy 12

    The way I see it, how people determine their sexual preferences, family arrangements, relationships is really not for the church, or for the government to decide and quite frankly, no one elses business.

    It really pisses me off how people who think someone with a magic(k) wand made everything about 3000-odd years ago, and read a fairy tale written by someone who was probably high on hashish at the time, should dictate how people should live their lives, which is pretty much swaddling people in a social straitjacket, forcing people into an arbitrary living arrangement of a man, woman and 2 kids, which IMO has lead to untold misery for thousands of people who don’t see that as suiting their needs. Divorce and domestic violence rates attest to that.

    I dont really see any harm in opening marriage up to same sex couples. In fact, I fully support it.

    And quite frankly the god-botherers can get fucked. Well kick the shit out of them like we did over the arrangement of the solar system, evolution, divorce, spousal rape, abortion, civil unions and smacking.

    • kiwi_prometheus 12.1

      Marriage is between a man and a woman.

      Marriage creates social stability – just take look at the alternatives attempted since the 1960s – Center Point anyone?

      No one is being forced to get married. There is the option of Civil Unions for those who don’t meet the criteria for marriage or prefer not to marry but want some kind of state recognition.

      • Pascal's bookie 12.1.1

        “Marriage creates social stability”

        That’s a great conservative argument for opening up mrriage to include the other sorts of relationships that humans want to have.

        • kiwi_prometheus 12.1.1.1

          “other sorts of relationships” aren’t marriage.

          Go make up a word for them if you like. Claim that they enhance social stability if you like.

          Leave marriage alone.

          • Pascal's bookie 12.1.1.1.1

            Marriage is defined in legislation. You can look it up. Change the legislation, change the definition. Logic see. Deal.

            • kiwi_prometheus 12.1.1.1.1.1

              Sure you can change it so someone can marry a horse or a magic blue leprechaun. Logic see.

              • Pascal's bookie

                Could indeed. Don’t think we should though. And have arguments for why I think that.

                But seeing you agree we can change the definition by changing the legislaition, ‘poof’, that was your argument disappearing in a puff of…logic.

              • RedBlooded

                Oh Jeez, we knew this was coming. Sure kp and if I’m allowed to marry my horse I promise I will allow you to marry yours as well. /sarc. There you go, it’s called equal rights.

                • felix

                  :D I hope this human/horse coupling isn’t going to be gay though. Marriage is only between male and female mammals.

                  • mac1

                    D’ja ever see a female centaur?

                    • felix

                      If I did I’d definitely propose.

                      Seriously though, this whole “next you’ll want to marry your dog” bit kind of implies that gay people are a bit like animals, with no ability to consent or decide.

                      Which makes me wonder how they’ll ever get married…

                  • RedBlooded

                    Oh yeah, and of course unless science finds a way to create children from this mythical marriage in k_p’s world then the marriage wouldn’t be real either. I obviously hadn’t thought through the seriousness of marrying my horse. :-)

                    • felix

                      “I obviously hadn’t thought through the seriousness of marrying my horse.”

                      If I had a bag of oats for every time I’ve heard that…

        • just saying 12.1.1.2

          The infamous English Wests anyone.

      • rosy 12.1.2

        Marriage creates social stability

        hmmm – not for my family. But if it did, that’s an excellent line in support of gay marriage.

      • millsy 12.1.3

        Social stability comes from a comprehensive welfare state, and extensive provision and funding of social services and assets from kindergartens to hospitals to libraries , as well as encouragement of high wages through fair employment law, not dictating to people what relationships to form with each other.

        And Bert Potter was a disgusting pervert who set up centerpoint so he would have a ready supply of 12 year old girls — same reason why other disgusting perverts enter the preisthood.

      • mike e 12.1.4

        kiddi phiddler Bigot
        Churches of one sort or another have a far worse record

  13. i agree mostly (not the kicking bit) with millsy on this. I support same-sex couples getting married if they want.

    I’ve been married twice and divorced twice. I believed in marriage when i made my vows, I’m not sure i do now.

    • bad12 13.1

      All this talk of marriage, how feudal can we all get, gods sake are we all that much into bondage, i find the whole issue of marriage to be a declaration of ones property rights over another…

  14. infused 14

    You should probably post JK’s entire speech about it. Reason for it being shot down was because it offered nothing over what’s there currently.

  15. Tanz 15

    A referendum though is a good idea for gauging the numbers for and against.

    • QoT 15.1

      Only if the question is unambiguous. Mind you, maybe the pro-marriage equality folks could get together on this and pull a Larry Baldock:

      “Should same-sex marriage for the purposes of good cultural inclusiveness not be considered an offence in New Zealand?”

    • millsy 15.2

      Sounds OK to me. It will enable the god-botherers to put their money where their mouths are.

  16. chris73 16

    I’ve always thought that anything that promotes monogamy and fidelity within a relationship can only be a good thing

    As for the adoption thing well if a child can have two loving parents then that’s better than most of us get so good on them

    • Pascal's bookie 16.1

      Very well said Chris.

    • Draco T Bastard 16.2

      I’ve always thought that anything that promotes monogamy and fidelity within a relationship can only be a good thing

      Only if you’re the monogamous type. Not really applicable to the polygynous, polyamory and swinger types.

  17. Murray Olsen 17

    Why is a closet homosexual like Kiwi PromQueen allowed to spew his filthy bile without moderation? Trying to use logic on that fruitcake is like reciting poetry to a rotting whale carcass. It won’t hear a thing and the smell just gets worse.

  18. I see this as an argument over the definition of a word – marriage = man and woman, and has done since the word was ‘created’. Now if the fags want all the legal rights of a married ‘straight couple’ most people don’t have a problem with that, so lets just have a different name, here are some suggestions

    Gayriage
    Homoriage
    Lesyrige
    Fagrige

    or whatever?
    Just leave the word marriage to the ‘people’ who started it.
    And all you gay fucks can have your own word?

    NB I’m ok with anyone fucking anyone, as long as both ‘fuckies’ are consenting adults, and there are no children produced.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    It is all bullshit

    • gobsmacked 18.1

      Just leave the word marriage to the ‘people’ who started it.

      You’ll need to think that one through.

    • felix 18.2

      The word is “fuckees“.

    • Te Reo Putake 18.3

      Jeez, Robert, there’s no need for the homophobia. Your other comments on the economy and the environment suggest you are an intelligent chap, if somewhat depressed. Lift your game, eh.

      • Robert Atack 18.3.1

        Sorry Te, just poking sticks at fools who want to argue about pointless crap

        And I had enough ‘gay’ contacts to know ‘they’ would not mind my comments.

    • I see this as an argument over the definition of a word – marriage = man and woman, and has done since the word was ‘created’

      Origin:
      1250–1300; Middle English marien < Old French marier < Latin marītāre to wed, derivative of marītus conjugal, akin to mās male (person)

      Word Origin & History
      marry
      c.1300, from O.Fr. marier, from L. maritare "to wed, marry, give in marriage," from maritus "married man, husband," of uncertain origin, perhaps ult. from "provided with a *mari," a young woman, from PIE base *meri- "young wife," akin to *meryo- "young man" (cf. Skt. marya- "young man, suitor").

      marry
      a common oath in the Middle Ages, c.1350, now obsolete, a corruption of the name of the Virgin Mary.

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/marry

      Nothing there definitively saying marriage = man and woman.

      And anyone who knows about language evolution will say the definition history is irrelevant. “Gay” has evolved to a variety of modern uses, eg merry, homosexual and lame.

      As others have said, how we legally define marriage is up to us now.

      It could be said that Louisa Wall is trying to make marry merry.

      • QoT 18.4.1

        marry
        a common oath in the Middle Ages, c.1350, now obsolete, a corruption of the name of the Virgin Mary.

        Now THAT I did not know. Today, I have learnt something via Pete George. Possible sign of the Apocalypse? :P

    • Another common anti equality line is that marriage should be left ‘as it always was’.

      Marriage used to commonly be a contract of a man taking ownership of a woman.
      Marriage used to commonly be the only financial security a woman could have.
      Marriage used to be a power arrangement (where one or both people being married had no say).
      Marriage used to often be under shotgun conditions.
      Marriage used to be the only acceptable way a child could leave the family home.
      Marriage used to be the primary ‘career’ choice of women.

      Most of that no longer happens (in New Zealand at least), fortunately.

      Marriage has evolved into being an optional voluntary equal arrangement and commitment between two people.

      A bit more evolution won’t hurt most people, but it will help some people and will be far better than some of the oppressive marriage practices of the past.

      • mike e 18.5.1

        By jeezzez Pg you can speak sense good on you.
        Don’t forget how many unhappy marriages their are and divorces once frowned on by the church.
        Any couple who are happy in their relationship good luck to them its not that common.

      • terryg 18.5.2

        dammit Pete, just when I had you pidgeonholed as a blithering idiot, you go and get all reasoned, rational and progressive on me. well done sir.

    • Populuxe1 18.6

      For the record, Robert, the only context where the word “fag” isn’t highly offensive is as slang for cigarette.

      • Robert Atack 18.6.1

        It is only a word, surly being rogered by the banks and government every day is more offensive?
        But what the hell, maybe you don’t have children to worry about, I haven’t, but I gave it 10 years of effort to help the unfortunate buggers.

      • mike e 18.6.2

        or a bunch thin branches or sticks in a bundle used for firewood possibly irish.

    • “I see this as an argument over the definition of a word – marriage = man and woman, and has done since the word was ‘created’. Now if the fags want all the legal rights of a married ‘straight couple’ most people don’t have a problem with that, so lets just have a different name, here are some suggestions

      Gayriage
      Homoriage
      Lesyrige
      Fagrige

      or whatever?
      Just leave the word marriage to the ‘people’ who started it.
      And all you gay fucks can have your own word?

      NB I’m ok with anyone fucking anyone, as long as both ‘fuckies’ are consenting adults, and there are no children produced. It is all bullshit”

      Are you even attempting to posit a rational argument? Or just reliant on naked prejudice and silly comments to make your point?

      • Robert Atack 18.7.1

        Just not giving a fuck really ;)
        Like I said before I was just poking a stick at people debating bullshit.
        You can walk around with a rasp shoved up your bum, and call it your true love as far as I’m concerned.
        We are a bunch of soon to be extinct monkeys, nothing matters.
        Apart from maybe algal blooms, locus swarms, and rat plagues, we are one of the only species ‘smart’ enough to destroy our future living arrangement.
        But yeah my naked prejudice for the truth, while surrounded by so much denial, does make me lose the plot now and then.

        • Populuxe1 18.7.1.1

          If you don’t give a “fuck”, may I respectfully suggest you “fuck” off.

          • terryg 18.7.1.1.1

            hmm, someone appears to have deliberately rammed their head up their bum. can we blame that on climate change? methinks not.

  19. Populuxe1 19

    I fail to see how that, whatever you actually mean, has anything to do with you being obnoxiously offensive. C**t is only a word. N****r is only a word. Grown ups still refrain from using them in polite, or at least public conversation.

  20. Johnm 20

    R. Atack’s comments have given me the best LOL, LOL, LOL I’ve had for a very long time ,thankyou Robert over and out!

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    Labour | 19-08
  • Phil Twyford Speech to NZCID
    "Labour's plan to build more and build better: how new approaches to housing, transport and urban development will deliver cities that work" Phil Twyford, Labour Party spokesperson on housing, transport, Auckland issues, and cities.  ...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Labour commits to independent Foreign Affairs and Trade
    “Labour is committed to New Zealand’s Foreign Affairs and Trade policy being independent and proactive, Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson David Shearer says. “We are a small but respected country. Our voice and actions count in international affairs. Labour will take a...
    Labour | 19-08
  • TheDailyBlog September Political Poll Has Been Kicked Off
    The Daily Blog’s August poll has concluded and the September poll has been kicked off, asking readers: What party will you likely vote for at this year’s General Election? You will see this month’s poll in the right-hand sidebar of...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – Jamie Whyte, leave that poor seal alone!
    Worse than showing mere lip service to Rainbow inclusion, ACT leader Jamie Whyte showed stunning arrogance when appeared at a candidates debate on rainbow issues hosted by the Auckland University Students’ Association last Thursday. The stunning hypocrisy was evident as...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Right wing can’t help but use scum
    Some people have been shocked that the traditional right wing party in New Zealand politics is so deeply embedded with scum like the blogger Whale Oil. We need not be so surprised. It takes a certain type to support the...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • EXCLUSIVE: National’s Ohariu candidate admits contact by Simon Lusk
    . . Wellington, NZ, 31  August – At a meet-the-candidates public meeting in the Rongotai Electorate, National’s Ohariu candidate, Brett Hudson, confirmed that he had been approached by “a mate”, who passed on a message from  National Party operative, Simon...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Auckland Broadcasting Debate 2014
    Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Auckland Broadcasting Debate 2014...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Petition for Governor General of New Zealand to Investigate all the allegat...
      Now we see the inquiry will be a whitewash, that is secret, won’t be consulted with the Opposition, will have limited scope and will ignore Nicky Hager’s book, we must demand the Governor General step in and demand an...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Ashburton, 1 September 2014
    I NEVER WENT BACK to Aramoana after the killing. I had been a frequent visitor to the tiny seaside village back in the late 1970s and throughout the 80s. Its tall cliffs and broad beaches providing a colourful backdrop to...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Checkmate in 1 move – how could Slater have known what was in OIA request...
    And now we get down to the final few moves before checkmate. If the following investigation is right, how could Slater and Collins have known what was in the Secret Intelligence Service Official Information Act request that hadn’t been released...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • The Edge Posts Naked Photos Of Jennifer Lawrence Without Consent
    Today the Edge website – owned by Media Works – published fully naked photographs of Jennifer Lawrence without her consent. It is not OK to publish naked media of any woman without her consent, full stop. It is absolutely disgusting...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Bomber, Laila and Maggie – a highlight from Auckland Broadcasting Debate ...
    Bomber, Laila and Maggie – a highlight from Auckland Broadcasting Debate 2014...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, how good was I i...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Maggie Barry slags Laila Harre & blogger, audience erupt
    The Coalition for Better Broadcasting held their public meeting in Auckland last night and it became a fiery shouting match when Maggie Barry decided to slag Laila Harre and me off. 250 people packed into the Pioneer Hall off High...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • It has to be a full independent public inquiry and Key MUST front
      You know things are bad when images like this start appearing in the media.  It isn’t a ‘left wing conspiracy’ to point out the over whelming evidence of what is clearly a right wing conspiracy! If it looks like a conspiracy, sounds like a conspiracy...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Political Party social media stats – National playing Dirty Politics on s...
    Interesting data from friend of the blog, Marty Stewart, on social media likes and it shows an interesting question that post Dirty Politics should probably get asked…   …it’s interesting that Key has so many personal followers.  One wonders if...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • The depth of the National rot and the compliance of our news media
    I’m so tired. Aren’t you? I don’t want to read the news anymore. It’s awful and I feel ashamed of it. We live in a country that people all over the world would give an arm, a leg; their life...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Conservative Party candidate links smacking ban with suicide, sexually tran...
    If Chemtrails, faked moon landings and climate change denial weren’t enough, welcome to your new Minister for Spanking,  Edward Saafi... The anti-smacking law is to blame for youth suicide, youth prostitution and even sexually-transmitted infections, a leading Conservative party candidate...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • A brief word on the canonisation of Matthew Hooton
    Before we all start the canonisation of Matthew Hooton, let’s consider some home truths here shall we? While the Wellington Ruminator Blog, the blog who was previously mates with Judith Collins, now seems to have a crush on Matthew Hooton… …I...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • A brief word on undercover cops in bars
    Dunedin police booze operation labelled ‘creepy’ Undercover police officers drank in Dunedin bars as part of an operation targeting liquor licensing offences. While police said the inaugural operation was a success — with most bars found compliant — the Hospitality...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Judith Collins press conference
    Judith Collins press conference...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Angry Lawyer – Collins, Odgers, Williams and legal ethics
    We deserve better lawyers than Judith Collins Three of the worst offenders exposed in Dirty Politics are lawyers: Judith Collins, Cathy Odgers, and Jordan Williams. What Nicky Hager exposed them doing would be out of line for anyone, but from...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Pat O’Dea – Necessary Defence
    Increasingly climate change is becoming the main fracture line between political parties. Where political parties stand on climate change defines political parties and movements like no other issue. The Mana Movement like the Maori Party it sprang from, came out...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Why it is all over for John Key
    Image: Melanie D I’ve been confident that National will lose this election and that our focus should be on what a progressive Government needs to establish as its agenda in the first 100 days. Past that point, the establishment pushes back...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • A brief word to everyone who voted National in 2011
    I received this interesting email from a National Party supporter today… …let me say this to anyone who voted National last election – you should be ashamed by what has been revealed and what your vote ended up enabling but...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • EXCLUSIVE: Déjà Vu All Over Again: John Ansell confirms his participation...
      THE MAN BEHIND the Iwi-Kiwi billboards that very nearly won the 2005 election for Don Brash and the National Party has confirmed his involvement in businessman John Third’s and former Act MP Owen Jennings’ campaign to drive down the...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Public Broadcasting Auckland debate 6.30pm tonight now with Colin Craig &am...
    The Coalition for Better Broadcasting debate on public broadcasting happens tonight at 6.30pm in Auckland at the Pioneer Women’s Hall, High Street, Auckland City.  In the light of Dirty Politics and the manipulation of the media, public broadcasting is more important for...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Winners & Losers in Collins sacking plus what’s the latest on Slater...
      Make no mistake, there was no way this was a resignation, it’s a face saving way out for Collins, she was sacked.  My understanding is that National internal polls are haemorrhaging and that the powers that be within National...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Third party propaganda attacks incoming Labour-led government
    . . Further to a report by Daily Blogger, Chris Trotter, on receiving information regarding planned attack-billboards, the following billboard is highly visible to traffic on the southbound lane of the Wellington motorway, just prior to the Murphy St turn-off....
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Labour wins the Internet
    I’m sure I’m not the only one who tried to vote online for the leaders debate and couldn’t because the website was down. The next option was the txt vote, 75c a pop of course. So I’m not surprised that...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Anjum Rahman – Rotherham and the need to challenge willful bl...
    I haven’t been following the events in Rotterham too closely.  I’ve read about the basic issues and the culture of silence that stopped action been taken even after complaints were made.  That culture of silence is incredibly familiar, and described...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Review: Hairspray
      Oh Hairspray! What fun! Somehow I managed to miss the movie when it came out, I had no idea really what it was about though I felt it had a vague relation to High School Musical. In retrospect, that...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Mounting global pressure against Timor-Leste’s ‘death sentence’ media...
    East Timor’s José Belo … courageous fight against ‘unconstitutional’ media law.Image: © Ted McDonnell 2014 CAFÉ PACIFIC and the Pacific Media Centre Online posted challenges to the controversial ‘press law’ nine months ago when it emerged how dangerous this draft...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Spies, Lies and When Campaigns Are Fried
    Like most of the rest of the nation’s political classes, I was eagerly affixed to TV One from 12:30 on Saturday afternoon to witness the downfall of Judith Collins.Whenever we witness the crumbling of a titan of the political landscape...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • BREAKING: Whaleoil crushes Crusher
    Judith ends up shooting herself A new email has been released suggesting that Collins was attempting to undermine the head of Serious Fraud Office with the help of far right hate speech merchant Cameron Slater. Unbelievable!   She has been forced...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • BREAKING: Rumours Judith Collins gone at lunchtime
    Brook Sabin first of the mark with rumours Judith Collins is about to resign – PM announcing a statement at 12.30pm… …Paddy follows… …Vance confirms..   …if Collins is gone by lunchtime, it will be because the PM understands the...
    The Daily Blog | 29-08
  • BREAKING: UPDATE on DIRT ALERT!
    Thanks to the information passed to Chris Trotter by “Idiot/Savant” from No Right Turn it is now possible to identify at least some of the persons involved in this latest example of attack politics. What follows is Chris’s response to Idiot/Savant’s timely assistance: Well done...
    The Daily Blog | 29-08
  • Comparing burning puppets, hip hop lyrics and drunk student chants to black...
    Watching the mainstream media try and obscure Cunliffe’s surprise win in the leaders debate  is a reminder the Press Gallery is in depressed shock. The current spin line from the Wellington bubble media in the wake of Dirty Politics is that...
    The Daily Blog | 29-08
  • Why has it all gone quiet on Charter Schools?
    They’re one of ACT’s flagship policies and the National Party have been gung ho in supporting them. So how come we’re not hearing Hekia Parata, Jamie Whyte, Catherine Isaac, et al singing from the rafters about what a resounding success charter...
    The Daily Blog | 29-08
  • Moment of Truth – September 15th – Auckland Town Hall
    Moment of Truth – September 15th – Auckland Town Hall...
    The Daily Blog | 29-08
  • EXCLUSIVE: Dirt Alert! Are the Greens and Labour about to become the target...
    WE’VE SEEN IT ALL BEFORE. In 2005 pamphlets began appearing all over New Zealand attacking Labour and the Greens. For a couple of days both the parties targeted and the news media were flummoxed. Who was behind such an obviously...
    The Daily Blog | 29-08
  • The Donghua Liu Affair: the Press Council’s decision
    . . 1. Prologue . The Donghua Liu Affair hit  the headlines on 18 June, with allegations that David Cunliffe wrote a letter in 2003,  on  behalf of  business migrant, Donghua Liu. Four days later, on Sunday 22 June, the...
    The Daily Blog | 29-08
  • The difference between Cunliffe & Key in the debate
    It was with much interest that I watched the leaders debate on Thursday night.  I watched with an open mind, always happy to have my opinion changed.  Maybe John Key is all the wonderful things that many say about him,...
    The Daily Blog | 29-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Denis Tegg – When Did We Agree To Our Data Being Shared with ...
    New shocking evidence has emerged from Edward Snowden’s trove of documents about a program called ICREACH under which data collected by the GCSB is shared with 23 US spy agencies. Under new sharing agreements which appear to have commenced immediately after...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Why Internet MANA are the best political friends the Greens could ever get
    Metiria at last nights #GreenRoomNZ: standing on the shoulders and camera cases of giants  NZers, regardless of political spectrum or apathy level, have a wonderful beach cricket egalitarianism about us. If we can objectively conclude a winner, then that person...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Sick of the Sleaze? Protest against National’s dirty politics THIS SATURD...
    Sick of the Sleaze? Protest now dammit! Three weeks before the election, action is being taken across the country voicing a rejection of the National Government’s track record and direction. Rallies are being held in Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Sir Edmund Thomas – Address at Nicky Hager public meeting
    I regard it as privilege to chair this public meeting. I have long had the greatest admiration for Nicky Hager’s work, and nothing I have read or heard in the media over the past week or so has caused me...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Labour and New Zealand Superannuation
    The kerfuffle in the wake of Nicky Hager’s Dirty Politics has had a detrimental impact on our discussion of economic policies. Signs are that the main beneficiaries of the dirty politics revelations will be Winston Peters and Colin Craig; certainly National suffered...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Mike Hosking and the Leader’s Debat...
    A few weeks ago I blogged that Mike Hosking was a terrible choice as moderator for the TV One Party Leader’s Debate, because he is so embarrassingly biased in favour of John Key. So I watched the show with curiosity,...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Democracy and Cancer: A critical analysis of Dirty Politics
    Twenty years ago, England’s renowned television playwright Denis Potter died of pancreatic cancer.  Readers may recall his two masterpieces ‘Pennies from Heaven’ and ‘The Singing Detective’.  During a final television interview with Melvyn Bragg, Potter declared that he had named...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Cunliffe beats Key in First Leaders debate
    I watched the First Leaders debate at the Green Party #GreenRoomNZ, they were very kind to include me and the atmosphere was great. The debate was a resounding victory to Cunliffe. He won Round 1, Round 2, Round 3 and...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • LIVE STREAM: The Green Room Leader’s Debate from 6:30pm
    The Green Room will be hosted by media commentator Russel Brown, and will feature Green Co-leaders Metiria Turei and Russel Norman responding to the debate live, along with comment from thought leaders and commentators. ‘The Green Room’ 6pm – 8.30pm...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Ngai Te Rangi Change to Tribal Elections
    Ngai Te Rangi has begun a postal vote of beneficiaries to change the way representatives are elected to the two Ngai Te Rangi tribal organisations....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Greens’ commitment to pay equity welcomed by workers
    The Public Service Association (PSA) says the 58,000 workers they represent will benefit from the announcement by the Green Party of a commitment to pay equity and to a living wage for core public servants and contractors....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Real People Powering Real Policy
    New Zealanders from all walks of life have helped the Internet Party create a full platform of strong, progressive and realistic policies that will create a better future for everyone, says leader Laila Harré....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • University of Canterbury to help with forestry safety
    The University of Canterbury is to launch a new research project to make sure New Zealand’s new forestry roads are safe and are established with minimal environmental impact....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Time to get serious about ending homelessness!
    New Zealand needs a comprehensive set of policies that address the housing and support needs of homeless people as well as significantly increasing the supply of affordable, good quality houses and flats....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Hundreds to join domestic, sexual violence march
    Several social service providers from across New Zealand have come together to call for an end to the epidemic level of domestic and sexual violence in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Students helped with debt repayments
    New Zealand students now living in Australia are being reminded not to ignore their student loan debt as Inland Revenue expands its latest tool to help with repayments....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Launch of GenderNeutral.co.nz website
    GenderNeutral.co.nz are excited to announce the launch of their new website, GenderNeutral.co.nz ....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Factory farming debaters to look chicken in the eye
    MPs participating in a panel discussion about factory farming will come face-to-face with a real live hen, rescued from the claws of the intensive farming industry. Hettie the Hen will demonstrate to the MPs what little space is afforded to...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Leadership stands strong behind Internet MANA relationship
    “There is now, and always will be, a range of views about many issues within our movement and members are free to express them, but Georgina’s views on Kim Dotcom are not shared by the MANA Movement leadership or the...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Personal Statement by Matthew Hooton
    Personal Statement by Matthew Hooton 1 September 2014 For Immediate Release “This morning I made comments on Radio New Zealand’s Nine to Noon programme about an attempt by staff in the Prime Minister’s Office to interfere in the appointment...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • The Worm turns down for John Key
    John Key struggled to coax The Worm above the line in Thursday’s Leaders Debate, according to Roy Morgan’s Reactor, the original Worm. John Key struggled to coax The Worm above the line in Thursday’s Leaders Debate, according to Roy Morgan’s...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • The Edge Posts Naked Photos Without Consent
    The Edge website, owned by Media Works have published fully naked photographs of Jennifer Lawrence without her consent....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Statement from the Governor-General on Ashburton Shootings
    The Governor-General, Lt Gen The Rt Hon Sir Jerry Mateparae, has expressed his deep shock following the shooting of three people in Ashburton today....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Update on IGIS inquiry into release of NZSIS information
    In recognition of the public interest, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, Cheryl Gwyn, took the unusual step of providing an update during the course of an inquiry and confirmed today that she would be summoning a number of individuals...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • An Open Government Plan developed in secrecy
    The State Services Commission sent NZ’s Open Government Action Plan to the international Open Government Partnership (OGP) Secretariat on 31 July. The countries involved in the OGP since its inception - from the UK and US to Indonesia and Brazil...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • KiwiRail; another year older and deeper in debt
    That is a lot of money and there are lessons that need to be learnt before we pour in another $1 billion....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Fonterra China Deal Demands Safe Supply Chain
    The future success of Fonterra’s deal to sell infant formula in China [1] requires all milk it uses be safe and for Fonterra to secure its supply chain from contamination by GE DNA and pesticide residues. There is now significant...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • HRC praises Auckland mum for speaking out
    Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy has praised an Auckland mother of four who went public after humiliating treatment by staff at The Warehouse....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Southern DHB refers disputed issue to Serious Fraud Office
    Following advice from forensic investigation firm Beattie Varley Limited, Southern District Health Board has referred the expenditure at the centre of its long running dispute with South Link Health to the Serious Fraud Office. The parties have been...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • The Letter 1 September 2014
    Last night’s TVNZ Colmar Brunton poll puts the left and right 60 MPs each. United and the Maori Party say they will go with the side that gets to 61 MPs. ACT just needs just 1.3% or 28 thousand Party...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Shopping Giveaway Harmless Fun For Kids
    Family First NZ is rubbishing claims by critics including Gareth Morgan that the New World ‘Little Shop’ promotion is harmful for kids, and says that kids should be allowed to be kids. “Children love acting like their parents and pretending...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Red Cross launches employment service for former refugees
    New Zealand Red Cross is encouraging employers to give refugees a fresh startwith the launch of Pathways to Employment, a nationwide work assistance service....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • EDS welcomes Labour’s Conservation Policy
    The Environmental Defence Society has welcomed Labour’s Conservation Policy including the key objective of halting the current pattern of indigenous biodiversity decline within ten years....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Poverty is falling and income inequality is not rising
    “A Roy Morgan poll shows that the issue people are most concerned about is income inequality. This just goes to show how the persistent repetition of a lie bewilders the public. Income inequality is not in fact rising. And the...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Rotary NZ responding to Fiji water and sanitation issues
    Clean water and sanitation are vital to health. In Fiji Rotary New Zealand have been targeting 22 communities that are experiencing severe hardship mainly because they don’t have access to clean water for their drinking, cleaning and cooking needs....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Work & Income shooting a Tragedy
    Kay Brereton speaking on behalf of the National Beneficiary Advocacy Consultancy group says; “Two people shot and another wounded, this is a tragedy and our deepest sympathy goes out to the family and whanau of the victims, as well as...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • 1080 Poison Deer Repellent not Effective – Farmers
    Four deer have been found dead within a farmer's bush block, after an aerial 1080 poison drop applied with deer repellent. The drop was part of a 30,000 hectare drop across the Northern Pureora Forest Park....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Employment Charter will strengthen migrants’ rights
    Establishing an Employment Charter for construction companies is a critical step to strengthening the rights of migrant workers that are fast becoming the face of the Christchurch rebuild, according to an alliance of union groups. The charter has...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Global March For Elephants and Rhino
    It’s a trans-national business that funds terrorist organisations, fuels conflict in Africa, and poses environmental, development and security challenges. The illegal wildlife trade is also a lucrative business, generating an estimated USD$20 billion...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • New series of videos aimed at disengaged youth
    From the people who brought you 'NZ Idle' (NZ's favourite web series about an artist on the dole) comes a new series about election time: Choice Lolz....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Picket Of Leaders Christchurch Debate
    KEEP OUR ASSETS PICKET OF LEADERS CHRISTCHURCH DEBATE TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 2nd, 6 p.m. ST MARGARETS COLLEGE, SHREWSBURY STREET, MERIVALE...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Vega Auriga should be detained in NZ until problems fixed
    Maritime Union of New Zealand National Secretary Joe Fleetwood says that the ship Vega Auriga should be detained in a New Zealand port until it is deemed seaworthy and crew issues have been fixed....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Minor Parties Added to Election ‘Bribe-O-Meter’
    The Taxpayers’ Union have added the Green, ACT, United Future and Conservative Parties to the ‘ Bribe-O-Meter ’ hosted at taxpayers.org.nz . Excluding ACT and New Zealand First, the total election ‘bribes’ - that is new spending not already...
    Scoop politics | 31-08
  • Fiery Broadcasting Debate in Auckland
    Over 250 people turned out for the Auckland Broadcasting and Media Debate in Auckland City last night to hear politicians give their solutions to NZ’s media and broadcasting woes....
    Scoop politics | 31-08
  • Independent Epsom Candidate: Adam Holland
    Today I am very proud to have been nominated to run as an independent candidate by the people of Epsom in order to work hard for the people of Epsom, Mount Eden, Newmarket and Remuera....
    Scoop politics | 31-08
  • Voters favour parties with factory farming policies
    A Horizon Research poll shows that 64.7% of adults are more likely to vote for a political party with a policy against factory farming....
    Scoop politics | 31-08
  • Collins And Dirty Politics Drive The #nzpol Wordcloud
    After Judith Collins' resignation as Minister from Cabinet on Saturday, the data insight organisation Qrious collected all tweets that used the hashtag #nzpol and for approximately the 24 hours since the announcement to produced this wordcloud....
    Scoop politics | 31-08
  • Bill English: allegations against Judith Collins are serious
    Deputy Prime Minister Bill English told TV1’s Q+A programme that the allegations against Judith Collins are serious and that’s why an inquiry is needed....
    Scoop politics | 31-08
  • Culture Change Required
    "There are serious issues raised in an Employment Relations Authority judgement released this week. The culture within the Whangarei District Council (WDC) organisation must change. The culture of any organisation is defined by its leadership starting...
    Scoop politics | 31-08
  • Reducing Reoffending Statistic Challenged
    In Rethinking’s latest blog, http://blog.rethinking.org.nz/2014/08/th-bps-reducing-crime-and-reoffending.html it closely examines the current claim that reoffending in New Zealand has reduced by 12.5% since June 2011, and reveals how that figure has been achieved. It argues...
    Scoop politics | 31-08
  • University economics team studying workers’ comparing wages
    A University of Canterbury economics research team is looking at fairness of the job assignments and whether workers are sensitive to the wages of their co-workers....
    Scoop politics | 31-08
  • Statement by State Services Commissioner
    30 August 2014 "The State Services Commission was contacted by the Prime Minister's Office over the last 24 hours on this issue." “Any activity that undermines, or has the potential to undermine, the trust and confidence in the public service...
    Scoop politics | 31-08
  • Christchurch Council Circus … Continued
    In 2010 the UK Daily Mail investigated the antics of a major bureaucratically bloated London Local Authority and reported with THE GREAT INERTIA SECTOR ....
    Scoop politics | 30-08
  • The Nation Housing Debate
    Patrick It's the great Kiwi dream, but is owning the roof over your head now just a pipe dream for many Kiwis? Homeownership is at the lowest level in half a century. National's answer is to double subsidies to first-home...
    Scoop politics | 30-08
  • Time to Shine Light on Shadowy Spies
    Internet MANA has promised to set up a Royal Commission of Inquiry into New Zealand’s intelligence agencies, with a view to transferring oversight of spying operations to a new, independent authority....
    Scoop politics | 30-08
  • New Zealand’s biggest problems are Economic Issues
    New Zealand’s biggest problems are Economic Issues (41%) while the World’s most important problems are War & Terrorism (35%) just three weeks before NZ Election...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • NZ 2014 Leaders Index – week ending 29 August
    Below is iSentia’s first weekly Leaders’ Index, showing the relative amount of coverage of nine Party Leaders in the lead up to the National Election across news media and social media. We will produce these reports for the next three...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Judgment in Paki v Attorney General
    Tamaiti Cairns said that today’s Supreme Court decision is complicated, but, in essence opens the door for Maori people to go forward with their essential claims to water. Further work is required and Pouakani Trust will continue to pursue its...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Supreme Court Decision on Maori Water Rights
    “ … the Supreme Court refused to give Pouakani people what they asked for, but may have given them something much, much better instead. The Appellants had argued that the Crown’s ownership of the River was as a fiduciary for...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
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