web analytics

Geddis: Is someone trying to game the MMP review?

Written By: - Date published: 11:04 am, August 24th, 2012 - 31 comments
Categories: MMP - Tags: , , ,

The excellent Andrew Geddis at Pundit has an interesting post up this morning. You should head on over there and check it out. Here are a couple of extracts to get you started…


The Electoral Commission is in the midst of its second round of consultation on how to reform MMP. In recent days, it seems to be getting an oddly uniform message. …

For the first few days after the Commission’s report came out, there’s a pretty wide mix of views coming through. There’s a fair bit of support for what the Commission is saying. But there’s also some people who think it has got it wrong on one or more of the issues addressed, and tell it so. And there are a few folks who take off on odd tangents all of their own … but such is the beauty of asking the public what they think about anything.

However, over the last few days, the submissions have begun to take on a much more consistent message. They almost uniformly call for a retention of the “electorate lifeboat” rule and keeping the party vote threshold at 5%. And what is more, many of them do so in language that looks oddly familiar. …

Now, I have no conclusive evidence to prove that these similarities aren’t just a spontaneous outbreak of like-minded individuals who all believe the same thing for the same reasons and have chosen to express those beliefs in much the same way. But the alternative explanation is that there is an at least semi-organised attempt underway to impress a consistent message upon the Commission as it considers what its final recommendations to the Government should be. …


Go and read the whole post at Pundit.

31 comments on “Geddis: Is someone trying to game the MMP review?”

  1. Lanthanide 1

    Replying here since I don’t want to create a ‘pundit account’ (whatever that is) to comment. This is a reply to one Andrew’s own comments in the comment thread.

    “The real impact will come in terms of pure numbers – so if (say) the Commission recommends to the Government that the “electorate lifeboat” exception be abolished, but also reports that (say) 55% of those commenting on its recommendations opposed this move, then that’s going to make it a lot easier to ignore what it says.”

    Indeed this is the problem. So I think rather than report such a number, they need to highlight the fact that ‘apparent form submissions’ were a certain percentage of all submissions. I believe many select committees do the same thing and then count them as a single submission.

    • Bunji 1.1

      I don’t think that’s good behaviour by select committees. Every response from a member of the public is valid and where thousands are combined to 1 because they come from an easy aggregating site, that’s denying the number with those views.

      You may not agree with them, they may have had it made easy to submit those views, but those are legitimate views of members of the public. The correct response to opposing views being made easy to submit is to submit yourself, and ideally make it easy for like-minded others to do so.

      So say you agree with the electorate lifeboat being removed. Ask for a lower threshold. And anything else you want, or just go with something short.

      It is in fact very easy to put a submission in. It only takes a minute, and we all should do it. I have.

      • Lanthanide 1.1.1

        I’m not saying that they should be counted as one, and I agree it’s a poor thing to do.

        What I’m saying is that instead of only reporting a single number, they should report a number that excludes ‘form-like’ responses, and another number that includes them.

        • BernyD 1.1.1.1

          That’s a hard thing to do, and would only catch a few, many people might indeed do it without collusion of any kind.
          And how do you judge someones emotional state etc ?
          It’s all or nothing really.

  2. BernyD 2

    Surely its an invalid number as people who don’t comment or submit opinions should be a factor of the “Overall” submissions counted.

  3. DH 3

    Can see why he’s suspicious, odd grammar using the word elected & even odder that two unrelated people would use it in identical fashion …..

    First one….

    “…it is fair they receive the number of list seats the public have elected them to have.”

    Second one…

    “…it’s fair that they receive the number of list seats the public have elected them.”

    • BernyD 3.1

      True, it’s likely a “Highjack”, which is why in context it should be 1 opinion out of 3million

      • McFlock 3.1.1

        I recall filling in postcards on different issues and sending them to parliament as submissions. Not because I was paid, but because I agreed with the sentiment on the card and it expressed the issue better than I could.
                     
        Provided the submitters are all genuine, I have no problem with someone advising supported on wording or ideal topics to cover. 
             
         

        • BernyD 3.1.1.1

          Exactly, and what is “Genuine”, a comment is a comment

          • McFlock 3.1.1.1.1

            I was thinking “genuine” as in “actually intended to post”, not just fraudulently going around the rest home or taking advantage of ESL speakers, or even paying people to send them off.

            • insider 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Like paying people to drum up signatures?

            • BernyD 3.1.1.1.1.2

              Our systems simply have to allow for that possibility, it’d be street level enforcement.

              And in a civilised world those are still valid opinions, no matter how they arrived at them

              • McFlock

                The payment thing is debatable. But conning people that they are actually signing something else is illegal, I believe.

      • Anne 3.1.2

        Of course its a highjack. I saw it in action in the 1990s. The right are clever and well organised when it comes to block submissions, referenda and voting. Their apostles are willing to be led by the hand and will do as they are told. See Epsom!

        It will be some kind of NAct off-shoot that is organising it, so that the NAct govt. can deny any involvement. Indeed, I have a good idea who the principle organiser might be… and no, I don’t mean Shirtcliffe.

  4. captain hook 4

    ipredict that if anyone is trying to game the MMP review then it will be ipredict.
    they are the ones that stand to make an immediate profit out of the democratic process.

  5. joe90 5

    I’m surprised anyone thought Shirtcliffe had gone away

  6. Kotahi Tāne Huna 6

    If this is a coordinated campaign it is hiding its internet presence rather well.

    In the original set of submissions, according to the Commission:

    Of the 2,347 submissions received on this issue that expressed a clear opinion, 77% recommended that the one electorate seat threshold be abolished. 17% said it should be retained and nearly 6% proposed that it be increased to two or more seats (a further 88 submissions commented on this issue without stating a clear preference).

    So any attempt to go back on the proposal to abolish will have to justify ignoring the 77% in favour of the right’s little coordinated tantrum.

  7. aerobubble 7

    The one seat rule will go, Key would look bad if he ignored the anger on the issue of a
    graveyard identity robber getting into parliament due to Espom. Key’s more interest
    in the short term, i.e one more term, and that makes the Conservatist party a runner.
    So Key would want the 5% lowered. And good by Dunne and whoever is the next
    ACT MP standing in Epsom (unlikely to be a guy who could not remember a helicopter
    ride to a mansion, hasn’t ACT had enough of tossers as ACT MP for Epsom???).

  8. Draco T Bastard 8

    Just put in a submission. I wasn’t going to because, overall, I agreed with the proposals and didn’t see any need to change them. From reading Andrew Geddis article it seems that he’s advising that people don’t fall into the same trap and to get in there and submit.

  9. georgecom 9

    As already stated, if you think the electoral commission got it right, put in a submission.

    If you fear the process being swamped by ACT/National trying to game the system, put in a submission.

    I put one in saying the commission had got it about right. Scrap the provision for electorate seats permitting party votes to be counted and lower the party vote threshold to 4%.

  10. Clashman 10

    Just put my submission in and said that in particular the “electorate lifeboat” should be abloished.
    Thats one of the pro lifeboat submissions negated.
    Come on everyone do your bit.

  11. Ianmac from Vietnam 11

    Yes. Do it. I was a bit diffident but put a submission in this morning via Andrew’s page on Pundit. Easy actually. Just now I read the last submission on each of 12 pages and really we are just ordinary people expressing an opinion with as few as 10 words and not as I feared a legalistic treatise. Go for it folks.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Labour and Greens sign historic agreement to change the Government
    The Labour Party and the Green Party have announced today they have signed an historic agreement to work cooperatively to change the Government. The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the parties commits them to working cooperatively to change the Government… ...
    11 hours ago
  • Budget ignores vital role of quality ECE
    Last night I watched a fascinating programme about the Otago University 45 year study of 1000 New Zealanders. It concluded that there are ways to intervene and support people who are at risk of becoming violent. One of the key… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 day ago
  • More ice for Radio NZ in Budget
    Budget 2016 once again left our only public broadcaster, Radio NZ (RNZ), worse off. After eight years of funding freezes, you have to wonder if RNZ is being iced-out for ideological reasons. I believe public broadcasting is an important cornerstone… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    2 days ago
  • Fisheries inquiry must be widened to include Trident
    The Government must widen its inquiry into the Ministry for Primary Industries to include its awarding of a company owned by Sanford and Moana Pacific Fisheries to monitor commercial fishing vessels, Labour’s Fisheries spokesperson Rino Tirikatene says. The Ministry for… ...
    2 days ago
  • Government spend up on state house sell off
    The Government has spent $28.9 million and has 129 officials working on its misguided state house sell-off, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.  “This is a scandalous waste of taxpayers’ money on a policy that won’t deliver a single extra… ...
    3 days ago
  • Housing crisis has huge impact on education
    The National Government’s failure to get on top of the housing crisis is having a major impact on the quality of education a lot of school kids are getting, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says.  “There are thousands of kids… ...
    3 days ago
  • Minister celebrates while arts organisations face cuts
    Maggie Barry was full of self-congratulations for her small arts announcement in the budget, ignoring the pain that a large number of organisations are facing due to her inaction, says Arts, Culture, Heritage spokesperson Jacinda Ardern.  “The Budget delivered a… ...
    3 days ago
  • Regions miss out again in Joyce’s Koru Lounge Fund
      The regions have missed out yet again with Steven Joyce offering just $10m a year for key regional development projects while trumpeting a bunch of re-heated announcements, says Labour’s Economic Development spokesperson David Clark. “The dairy downturn has put… ...
    4 days ago
  • Children’s Commissioner misses out in Budget
      The Office of the Children’s Commissioner has missed out on a much needed boost in this year’s Budget, meaning they will be forced to continue their reduced monitoring role of CYFs residences, says Labour’s spokesperson for Children Jacinda Ardern. … ...
    4 days ago
  • Communities miss out in Budget
    Budget 2017 has left community and NGO providers feeling exposed about the services they provide to vulnerable families especially in smaller towns and communities, says Labour’s Whānau Ora Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta. “Approximately $40m will go into Whānau Ora to work… ...
    4 days ago
  • Budget2016: Two Worlds
    Sometimes I feel as if I live in two worlds. The world created by the National Government where everything is great and they’re doing a great job and the world as seen through the eyes of child advocates, community workers,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    5 days ago
  • Parekura would be proud – MTS gets boost
    The Labour Party is ecstatic that the Māori Party have shown support for one of Labour’s proudest policies, says Labour’s Māori Broadcasting Spokesperson Peeni Henare.  “The Māori Television Service was launched in 2004 by the late Hon Parekura Horomia. ...
    5 days ago
  • Māori housing in state of emergency
    The Government needs to declare a state of emergency for Māori Housing, says Labour’s Māori Development spokesperson and Te Tai Tokerau MP Kelvin Davis. “The extra $3 million a year Māori Housing Network fund will not scratch the surface in… ...
    5 days ago
  • State house sell off in disarray after provider pulls out
     The Government should cancel its planned sell-off of state houses after the second big community housing provider pulled out leaving the process in disarray, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.  “It is time for the Government to back away from… ...
    5 days ago
  • Nothing in Budget to help police to solve crime
    The Police Minister has failed to make communities safer with virtually no new money in yesterday’s Budget for police to address the appalling burglary resolution rates, says Labour’s Police spokesperson Stuart Nash.  “It’s a disgrace there’s no money or aspiration… ...
    5 days ago
  • Blog – Budget 2016: What about ordinary working people?
    Ordinary working New Zealanders don’t fare very well from this Budget. Setting aside the spin from the Government, it contains a lot to be concerned about and a fudging of the numbers. Green Party workplace relations spokesperson Denise Roche For… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    5 days ago
  • Real wages go backwards for next two years
    New Zealanders’ real wages will fall for the next two years as the cost of living outpaces forecast pay rises, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “New Zealanders have been doing it tough for far too long. They expect… ...
    5 days ago
  • The Attack on Public Education – by a thousand cuts
    Budget 2016 is another step towards the free public education system being a memory from the past. The Budget freezes the operations grant for schools and does not sufficiently cover the real increase in numbers of students entering the education system.… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    5 days ago
  • The Attack on Public Education – by a thousand cuts
    Budget 2016 is another step towards the free public education system being a memory from the past. The Budget freezes the operations grant for schools and does not sufficiently cover the real increase in numbers of students entering the education system.… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    5 days ago
  • The give with one hand – take with the other Budget
    The Minister of Health has pumped out media releases to 20 District Health Boards heralding increases in funding for their regions, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. “But when you add population growth and inflation into the figures you get… ...
    5 days ago
  • Budget offers no hope of fixing housing crisis
    The Budget’s underwhelming housing measures will give New Zealanders no hope that National is capable of fixing the housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “There isn’t a scrap of an idea to help desperate young Kiwi families into… ...
    5 days ago
  • How the budget fails new New Zealanders
    Greens co-leader James Shaw was absolutely correct to say the 2016 budget is just papering over the cracks. There’s nothing in this budget to increase wages, address inequal pay for carers or deal with the shocking pay rates and employment… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    5 days ago
  • Parents will pay more as school budgets frozen
    Parents will pay more for their kids’ education as a result of this year’s Budget after the Government froze operational funding for schools, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “This means schools are effectively going backwards. They will need to… ...
    5 days ago
  • Sticking Plaster Budget fails the test
    Bill English’s penultimate Budget fails to tackle the structural challenges facing the economy – a housing crisis, rising unemployment, underfunded health and creaking infrastructure, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “This Budget applies a sticking plaster to a compound fracture.… ...
    5 days ago
  • John Key fails middle New Zealand with no fix for housing crisis, more underfunding of health
    Middle New Zealand has again missed out in this year’s Budget with not a single fix for the housing crisis, and health and education woefully underfunded again, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “This Budget is just a patchwork… ...
    5 days ago
  • Labour Bill would back Kiwi jobs
    The Government’s $40 billion of buying power would go towards backing Kiwi businesses and jobs under a Labour Member’s Bill which will be debated by Parliament, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “My Bill – which was pulled from… ...
    6 days ago
  • Julie Anne Genter: My Budget 2016 wish is fairness
    When my parents first visited me in Auckland ten years ago, they remarked on how there were no homeless people on the streets. Coming from Los Angeles, they were used to seeing the impacts of horrendous inequality and a lack… ...
    GreensBy Julie Anne Genter
    6 days ago
  • Steffan Browning: Pesticide reduction and Organic Growth Strategy in Budget 2016
    Pesticide reduction The Budget is an opportunity for the Government to launch a pesticide reduction strategy that multiplies the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) and the Ministry for Primary Industries’ capacity to reassess pesticides and other toxins.  The Agricultural Compounds and… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning
    6 days ago
  • Steffan Browning: Pesticide reduction and Organic Growth Strategy in Budget 2016
    Pesticide reduction The Budget is an opportunity for the Government to launch a pesticide reduction strategy that multiplies the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) and the Ministry for Primary Industries’ capacity to reassess pesticides and other toxins.  The Agricultural Compounds and… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning
    6 days ago
  • Minister won’t fess up on wrong figures
    The Minister of Health was caught out telling porkies in Parliament today when he was asked about the number of people getting access to mental health and addiction services, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. ...
    6 days ago
  • Budget 2016 and our LGBTQI communities
    LGBTI people make up about a tenth of our population, and our communities face a unique set of needs and challenges. These challenges are caused or exacerbated by discrimination, invisibility and barriers to appropriate support. We have a long way… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    6 days ago
  • Budget 2016 and our LGBTQI communities
    LGBTI people make up about a tenth of our population, and our communities face a unique set of needs and challenges. These challenges are caused or exacerbated by discrimination, invisibility and barriers to appropriate support. We have a long way… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    6 days ago
  • Scrambled announcement policy on the hoof
    Paula Bennett’s scrambled desperate announcement that she will pay homeless people to move to the regions is just the latest evidence of the disarray this Government’s housing policy is in, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “This is policy… ...
    6 days ago
  • Police Minister admits resolution rates fall short of expectation
    Police Minister Judith Collins has admitted in Parliament current burglary resolution rates are not meeting the expectations of our communities, says Labour’s Police spokesman Stuart Nash “Out of 284 police stations in New Zealand in 2015, 24 stations recorded zero… ...
    6 days ago
  • Mojo Mathers: A better deal for animals in Budget 2016
    Currently we are failing animals in NZ. On the face of it farmed and domestic animals in this country have strong legal protection from abuse, cruelty and neglect. In reality it seems that only the very worst, most extreme cases… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers
    6 days ago
  • Metiria Turei: What we need from Budget 2016
    Every family deserves a warm decent home.  Everyone believes that. This housing crisis is just the latest consequence of a Government who puts the interests of the few wealthy people above the needs of NZ families.  Families are doing it… ...
    GreensBy Metiria Turei
    7 days ago
  • Dairy exports fall of 11%: Budget action on diversification needed
    Dairy exports have fallen 11 per cent compared to this time last year, a fall of almost $1.5b, showing the Government must take clear action on diversifying the economy in tomorrow’s Budget, says Labour’s Trade and Export Growth spokesperson David… ...
    7 days ago
  • Investors driving families out of homes in South and West Auckland
    Investors cashing in on skyrocketing Auckland house prices are driving families out of homes in South and West Auckland and causing homeownership rates in some of our poorest suburbs to plummet, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “New analysis shows… ...
    7 days ago
  • Budget must deliver on paid parental leave
    Budget 2016 must deliver 26 weeks paid parental leave by April 2018 – anything less will be short-changing families, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “My Bill which is before Parliament this afternoon has majority support and does just that. I… ...
    7 days ago
  • Key’s “brain fart” on tax cuts news to English
    John Key didn’t tell his own Finance Minister he was about to go on radio and announce he wanted $3b of tax cuts, just days after Bill English ruled them out, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “In Parliament today… ...
    1 week ago
  • What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 – A better start for our tamariki
    Ensuring the best start for our tamariki is a priority for me in everything I do. And so in Budget 2016, my first budget as an MP, I looking for the Government to make a real investment in the wellbeing… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    1 week ago
  • What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 – A better start for our tamariki
    Ensuring the best start for our tamariki is a priority for me in everything I do. And so in Budget 2016, my first budget as an MP, I looking for the Government to make a real investment in the wellbeing… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    1 week ago
  • Denise Roche: What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 Pt II
    Aotearoa’s new New Zealanders,  come to our country in vulnerable position: – often away from the culture, communities and families they know, sometimes in neighbourhoods without familiar faces and often encountering barriers to employment. With net migration at 50,000+ a… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Equal Pay and Budget 2016
    The last few years we’ve seen equal pay for women flagged as an undefined risk in the budget. This year we should expect to see this, as well as budgeted money to deliver equal pay to caregivers and funding for,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • Equal Pay and Budget 2016
    The last few years we’ve seen equal pay for women flagged as an undefined risk in the budget. This year we should expect to see this, as well as budgeted money to deliver equal pay to caregivers and funding for,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • A great Budget would
    A great Budget would embrace the challenge of our polluted rivers and move the money away from justifying the status quo water rules into cleaning up waterways. A great Budget would take the Ministry for the Environment freshwater budget and… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 week ago
  • Budget building materials policy backfires
    On the eve of this year’s Budget official figures show Nick Smith’s Budget 2014 centrepiece to reduce the cost of building materials has backfired, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment officials have spent the… ...
    1 week ago
  • Smarter, Better, Cleaner, Stronger
    This Thursday Bill English will deliver his eighth Budget. Will it continue the trend of previous National budgets, making tertiary education less affordable, putting only token funds into innovation, and subsidising polluters? Budgets aren’t what they used to be. Once… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    1 week ago
  • Govt must come clean on tax cuts in Budget
    National is making a mockery of the Budget process by dangling the promise of tax cuts but failing to include them in the Budget, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “National’s tax cut promises have turned into a farce. One… ...
    1 week ago
  • Grant Robertson Pre-Budget Speech
    Today I want to talk about success. As we know success can come in many different forms, from the fact you all made it here at such an early hour on a Monday, for which I am very grateful, to… ...
    1 week ago

Public service advertisements by The Standard

Current CO2 level in the atmosphere