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	<title>Comments on: Get your house in order</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: Goff: yes, stuff-ups: no at The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-148612</link>
		<dc:creator>Goff: yes, stuff-ups: no at The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-148612</guid>
		<description>[...] elections as an opportunity to build momentum and build relationships across the Left. Irish has an excellent piece on these [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] elections as an opportunity to build momentum and build relationships across the Left. Irish has an excellent piece on these [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Credit where credit&#8217;s due at The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-146083</link>
		<dc:creator>Credit where credit&#8217;s due at The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-146083</guid>
		<description>[...] recently told them to get some decent key lines. I asked them (as have many others) to start talking about their vision, and when they do, to keep [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recently told them to get some decent key lines. I asked them (as have many others) to start talking about their vision, and when they do, to keep [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145815</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145815</guid>
		<description>Come on now Lew, 

The simple reason &#039;Trust&#039; was a monumentally-fucking-stupid platform was because the voting public don&#039;t trust the word of ANY politician.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on now Lew, </p>
<p>The simple reason &#8216;Trust&#8217; was a monumentally-fucking-stupid platform was because the voting public don&#8217;t trust the word of ANY politician.</p>
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		<title>By: IrishBill</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145811</link>
		<dc:creator>IrishBill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145811</guid>
		<description>Nope, but I&#039;m not spilling all the trade secrets on a public forum. Maybe I&#039;ll tell you over a beer one day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope, but I&#8217;m not spilling all the trade secrets on a public forum. Maybe I&#8217;ll tell you over a beer one day.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex Widerstrom</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145739</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex Widerstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145739</guid>
		<description>Let me guess. &quot;They&#039;re uniformly agreed we&#039;re completely and utterly wrong on x, but what do they know, they&#039;re only citizens. Clearly we need to either a) tell them to move on, we know best or b) devise a propaganda campaign to convince them we know best&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me guess. &#8220;They&#8217;re uniformly agreed we&#8217;re completely and utterly wrong on x, but what do they know, they&#8217;re only citizens. Clearly we need to either a) tell them to move on, we know best or b) devise a propaganda campaign to convince them we know best&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex Widerstrom</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145738</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex Widerstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145738</guid>
		<description>Thanks Daveski.

Building bridges is fine... but if the continent you&#039;ve built the bridge to starts sinking in an ocean of corruption it&#039;s time to pull back the bridge (if I may torture a metaphor to death in order to make a point).

The negatives outweighed the positives* almost from the outset and certainly by the time it was all sent to the Privileges Committee and Brian Henry started getting more &quot;recovered memories&quot; than a witness at the Peter Ellis trial.

Yes Labour outplayed the Nats in terms of using MMP to its advantage though to be fair it had a wider choice of stable coalition partners in that Anderton and the Greens were never going to cross the divide and the latter were always going to poll well unlike most of those who&#039;ve supported National (the cravenly ambitious rump of ex NZF MPs like Deborah Morris who refused to walk when Winston did, Ross Meurant, Graeme Lee... I mean &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; try forming a stable government with that lot, let alone getting them re-elected for next time).

A Winston comeback? I&#039;d suggest a laying a trail of whisky bottles to the edge of a cliff...

You &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt; asking how to prevent one, right? :-D

*and the only positive I could see was supposed &quot;stability&quot; - never a Winston strong point at the best of times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Daveski.</p>
<p>Building bridges is fine&#8230; but if the continent you&#8217;ve built the bridge to starts sinking in an ocean of corruption it&#8217;s time to pull back the bridge (if I may torture a metaphor to death in order to make a point).</p>
<p>The negatives outweighed the positives* almost from the outset and certainly by the time it was all sent to the Privileges Committee and Brian Henry started getting more &#8220;recovered memories&#8221; than a witness at the Peter Ellis trial.</p>
<p>Yes Labour outplayed the Nats in terms of using MMP to its advantage though to be fair it had a wider choice of stable coalition partners in that Anderton and the Greens were never going to cross the divide and the latter were always going to poll well unlike most of those who&#8217;ve supported National (the cravenly ambitious rump of ex NZF MPs like Deborah Morris who refused to walk when Winston did, Ross Meurant, Graeme Lee&#8230; I mean <i>you</i> try forming a stable government with that lot, let alone getting them re-elected for next time).</p>
<p>A Winston comeback? I&#8217;d suggest a laying a trail of whisky bottles to the edge of a cliff&#8230;</p>
<p>You <i>were</i> asking how to prevent one, right? <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>*and the only positive I could see was supposed &#8220;stability&#8221; &#8211; never a Winston strong point at the best of times.</p>
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		<title>By: BK Drinkwater</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145667</link>
		<dc:creator>BK Drinkwater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145667</guid>
		<description>Richard: spot on in general. (Though I&#039;m rather too loyal to National to see the Nats in quite the terms you do, you do identify a real danger for them.)

In Farrar&#039;s defence, well, he &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a pollster by profession, so it&#039;s kinda inevitable that he&#039;ll see more issues in these terms than you or I would regard as perfectly healthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard: spot on in general. (Though I&#8217;m rather too loyal to National to see the Nats in quite the terms you do, you do identify a real danger for them.)</p>
<p>In Farrar&#8217;s defence, well, he <i>is</i> a pollster by profession, so it&#8217;s kinda inevitable that he&#8217;ll see more issues in these terms than you or I would regard as perfectly healthy.</p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145615</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145615</guid>
		<description>Activists help a lot. Software that enables activists helps a lot. You trade time for people, brains for money. None of them are magic bullets but used effectively obviate a large chunk of the NACT&#039;s advantages (mostly money).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Activists help a lot. Software that enables activists helps a lot. You trade time for people, brains for money. None of them are magic bullets but used effectively obviate a large chunk of the NACT&#8217;s advantages (mostly money).</p>
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		<title>By: jarbury</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145613</link>
		<dc:creator>jarbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145613</guid>
		<description>Gingercrush, I think that would be a clever shift for Labour. They need to win back west Auckland and get out the South Auckland vote if they&#039;re to have any chance of winning the 2011 election. Those areas are full of the very people you suggest Labour are (or should be) aiming to go for. Plus, the time of a recession and rising unemployment is a clever time to go pro-worker.

Oddly enough, I&#039;m probably advocating for Labour to shift away from the direction where I personally would like to see them move to (somewhat of a cross between Labour and Greens). Then again, if they lose a few liberal votes to the Green Party it doesn&#039;t really matter in the end, as they&#039;re likely to need the Greens to help govern anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gingercrush, I think that would be a clever shift for Labour. They need to win back west Auckland and get out the South Auckland vote if they&#8217;re to have any chance of winning the 2011 election. Those areas are full of the very people you suggest Labour are (or should be) aiming to go for. Plus, the time of a recession and rising unemployment is a clever time to go pro-worker.</p>
<p>Oddly enough, I&#8217;m probably advocating for Labour to shift away from the direction where I personally would like to see them move to (somewhat of a cross between Labour and Greens). Then again, if they lose a few liberal votes to the Green Party it doesn&#8217;t really matter in the end, as they&#8217;re likely to need the Greens to help govern anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Quoth the Raven</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145610</link>
		<dc:creator>Quoth the Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145610</guid>
		<description>One should wish for a country where you&#039;re not judged on what you wear. What is a &quot;real kiwi&quot;? and why should one have to pretend to be one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One should wish for a country where you&#8217;re not judged on what you wear. What is a &#8220;real kiwi&#8221;? and why should one have to pretend to be one?</p>
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		<title>By: gingercrush</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145609</link>
		<dc:creator>gingercrush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145609</guid>
		<description>Some good points. I&#039;m not saying a recovery is going to be a winner for National. What I am saying, that by the time the economy recovers which looks likely to be before the 2011 election (though its unclear what will happen to economic growth or how quickly jobs will be created once the economy recovers). Labour isn&#039;t going to be able to hold that over National. In comparison to Australia. Australia will come out of this recession stronger because it never had an induced-recession and it tends to export to still-strong economies (Australia trades much more heavily with China and Asia than New Zealand and what it exports tends to always be in demand). But Australia is likely to have unemployment as bad as New Zealand. So whilst Labour is likely going to compare New Zealand&#039;s performance to Australia. I&#039;m not sure New Zealanders are going to buy that. Where the focus is economically will be what we do now that we are recovering. National is likely to point to structural problems in our economy whilst Labour is likely to focus on job creation and assistance to workers.

I would agree that if National runs a Mt. Albert like campaign they&#039;re in for trouble. I don&#039;t think that will happen. I think John Key stood up well in the 2008 election and if anything its Goff performance that is going to be important (on that count Goff will be good in debates but I do wonder whether he can get the message out). I also wonder how important Mt. Albert is on the whole. We know that by-election saw an increase in activists for the party. But by all accounts Mt. Albert already had organisation there. Its questionable whether they have that organisation in other electorates and National&#039;s organisation is far better elsewhere.

I agree that National have perhaps played it safe. But I think they had to and will keep doing so. National has to pander to its base but it also has to be moderate (though if you read this blog you&#039;d think National was a fascist party). Though I don&#039;t think Key was that far-right in the first place. Whilst Auckland Super-City will be an issue and you&#039;ve pointed to others. There are also a number of areas where National can get gains. A new electoral finance act will be one. The Foreshore and Seabed could potentially be a winner for National. We&#039;re still to see a proper infrastructure plan and its likely National will be moving with its broadband plan. So whereas there are some areas that could be problematic for National, there are also areas where National can make gains.

----

I do wish I could write much tighter. I tend to say too much whereas any other person would be able to say the same thing in just one paragraph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some good points. I&#8217;m not saying a recovery is going to be a winner for National. What I am saying, that by the time the economy recovers which looks likely to be before the 2011 election (though its unclear what will happen to economic growth or how quickly jobs will be created once the economy recovers). Labour isn&#8217;t going to be able to hold that over National. In comparison to Australia. Australia will come out of this recession stronger because it never had an induced-recession and it tends to export to still-strong economies (Australia trades much more heavily with China and Asia than New Zealand and what it exports tends to always be in demand). But Australia is likely to have unemployment as bad as New Zealand. So whilst Labour is likely going to compare New Zealand&#8217;s performance to Australia. I&#8217;m not sure New Zealanders are going to buy that. Where the focus is economically will be what we do now that we are recovering. National is likely to point to structural problems in our economy whilst Labour is likely to focus on job creation and assistance to workers.</p>
<p>I would agree that if National runs a Mt. Albert like campaign they&#8217;re in for trouble. I don&#8217;t think that will happen. I think John Key stood up well in the 2008 election and if anything its Goff performance that is going to be important (on that count Goff will be good in debates but I do wonder whether he can get the message out). I also wonder how important Mt. Albert is on the whole. We know that by-election saw an increase in activists for the party. But by all accounts Mt. Albert already had organisation there. Its questionable whether they have that organisation in other electorates and National&#8217;s organisation is far better elsewhere.</p>
<p>I agree that National have perhaps played it safe. But I think they had to and will keep doing so. National has to pander to its base but it also has to be moderate (though if you read this blog you&#8217;d think National was a fascist party). Though I don&#8217;t think Key was that far-right in the first place. Whilst Auckland Super-City will be an issue and you&#8217;ve pointed to others. There are also a number of areas where National can get gains. A new electoral finance act will be one. The Foreshore and Seabed could potentially be a winner for National. We&#8217;re still to see a proper infrastructure plan and its likely National will be moving with its broadband plan. So whereas there are some areas that could be problematic for National, there are also areas where National can make gains.</p>
<p>&#8212;-</p>
<p>I do wish I could write much tighter. I tend to say too much whereas any other person would be able to say the same thing in just one paragraph.</p>
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		<title>By: Bevanjs</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145608</link>
		<dc:creator>Bevanjs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145608</guid>
		<description>Phil would have to take his tie off and pretend to be a real kiwi.  Impressions count.  I think he&#039;ll struggle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil would have to take his tie off and pretend to be a real kiwi.  Impressions count.  I think he&#8217;ll struggle.</p>
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		<title>By: Kiwipolitico &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Optimism isn&#8217;t enough</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145606</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiwipolitico &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Optimism isn&#8217;t enough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145606</guid>
		<description>[...] for my critical tone is because the sort of Pollyanna bullshit exhibited by certain partisans on this thread (and elsewhere) is eerily similar to the rah-rah-it&#8217;s-all-good campaign of 2008, in which the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for my critical tone is because the sort of Pollyanna bullshit exhibited by certain partisans on this thread (and elsewhere) is eerily similar to the rah-rah-it&#8217;s-all-good campaign of 2008, in which the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145604</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145604</guid>
		<description>Edit: Bah. I should post this on my own soapbox.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edit: Bah. I should post this on my own soapbox.</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: gobsmacked</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/get-your-house-in-order/comment-page-1/#comment-145603</link>
		<dc:creator>gobsmacked</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=16789#comment-145603</guid>
		<description>ZB, your last sentence is particularly true.

I&#039;m intrigued by Key&#039;s strategy, really. It is against the grain to think that deferring decisions actually increases political capital (as opposed to taking the hit early). Perhaps there is a public need not to have to think about anything difficult, and Key has tapped into it. 

But it&#039;s not &quot;leadership&quot;, and that may be his undoing. The &quot;have a look at, yeah, I&#039;m relaxed, we&#039;ll see&quot; style of non-decisions has a limited shelf life, not least with his own base, who will want him to be &quot;tough&quot;, sooner or later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ZB, your last sentence is particularly true.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m intrigued by Key&#8217;s strategy, really. It is against the grain to think that deferring decisions actually increases political capital (as opposed to taking the hit early). Perhaps there is a public need not to have to think about anything difficult, and Key has tapped into it. </p>
<p>But it&#8217;s not &#8220;leadership&#8221;, and that may be his undoing. The &#8220;have a look at, yeah, I&#8217;m relaxed, we&#8217;ll see&#8221; style of non-decisions has a limited shelf life, not least with his own base, who will want him to be &#8220;tough&#8221;, sooner or later.</p>
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