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	<title>Comments on: Goff&#8217;s speech</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 22:29:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Getting it right &#171; The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-2/#comment-178639</link>
		<dc:creator>Getting it right &#171; The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-178639</guid>
		<description>[...] oh dear, Colin. Here&#8217;s what I actually wrote: It&#039;s possible that Goff might have won over some of the iwi/kiwi racists with the speech, he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] oh dear, Colin. Here&#8217;s what I actually wrote: It&#8217;s possible that Goff might have won over some of the iwi/kiwi racists with the speech, he [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Silly stories &#171; The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-2/#comment-177068</link>
		<dc:creator>Silly stories &#171; The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 21:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-177068</guid>
		<description>[...] rumblings because of Goff&#8217;s speech is silly. A number of people, including me, genuinely disagreed with the speech, not because of the issues it focused on but because it looked a hell of a lot like [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] rumblings because of Goff&#8217;s speech is silly. A number of people, including me, genuinely disagreed with the speech, not because of the issues it focused on but because it looked a hell of a lot like [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Orewa-lite reax &#171; The Dim-Post</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-2/#comment-175253</link>
		<dc:creator>Orewa-lite reax &#171; The Dim-Post</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175253</guid>
		<description>[...] Over at RedAlert, Clare Curran and Grant Robertson shill for their leader and insist that we listen to what Goff had to say. Eddie at The Standard did listen; he pours on the contempt: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Over at RedAlert, Clare Curran and Grant Robertson shill for their leader and insist that we listen to what Goff had to say. Eddie at The Standard did listen; he pours on the contempt: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175231</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175231</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Marty, your position is as I thought, but based on a coherent and pretty balanced analysis nonetheless. Which is more than can be said for some of this strategy&#039;s backers. 

L

Captcha: &#039;material&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Marty, your position is as I thought, but based on a coherent and pretty balanced analysis nonetheless. Which is more than can be said for some of this strategy&#8217;s backers. </p>
<p>L</p>
<p>Captcha: &#8216;material&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: poptart</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175229</link>
		<dc:creator>poptart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175229</guid>
		<description>Hi democracy mum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi democracy mum.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175132</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175132</guid>
		<description>I see http://www.democracymum.co.nz has more to say on Goff&#039;s speech and Pita Sharples on her blog this morning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see <a href="http://www.democracymum.co.nz" rel="nofollow">http://www.democracymum.co.nz</a> has more to say on Goff&#8217;s speech and Pita Sharples on her blog this morning.</p>
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		<title>By: Galeandra</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175129</link>
		<dc:creator>Galeandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175129</guid>
		<description>He does not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He does not.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Renouf</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175127</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Renouf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175127</guid>
		<description>BLiP - look forward to your critique of Jones&#039;s speech - presume you think it reeks of desperation and is either a cynical dog whistle or an example of a paucity of intellect or both</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BLiP &#8211; look forward to your critique of Jones&#8217;s speech &#8211; presume you think it reeks of desperation and is either a cynical dog whistle or an example of a paucity of intellect or both</p>
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		<title>By: goomba</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175118</link>
		<dc:creator>goomba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175118</guid>
		<description>Labour havent Goff a chance in the next election.

Andrew Little FTW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Labour havent Goff a chance in the next election.</p>
<p>Andrew Little FTW.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty G</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175116</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175116</guid>
		<description>Well, I haven&#039;t been quiet really, I had input into this post.

I think if you look at the substance of the speech, I agree with Gordon Campbell, Tumeke!, and Eddie.This isn&#039;t a rehash of Brash. The criticisms of the ETS stuff are legitimate and he&#039;s right that National will try to keep the existing F and S framework under a different name (where else can they go?)

On the politics, I&#039;m not so sure as Eddie that it&#039;s bad politics. Eddie&#039;s position is that Goff is pissing off large parts of Labour&#039;s base and courting rednecks. I disagree. Certainly (and I&#039;ve heard directly) a lot of Maori supporters of Labour are pissed and there may be a strategic error in that this speech could serve to solidify the Maori Party in the face of a &#039;common foe&#039; as it were just as it looked like falling apart. 

But I don&#039;t think that this speech panders to racists. Inevitably, some racists will be attracted by what they see as an anti-Maori message, just as their counterparts on the left are repelled by it but there&#039;s a larger group (one hates to use the term &#039;middle New Zealand&#039;) who are wondering just why National is making these uncosted deals that favour a few corporations who are lucky enough to be represented by a party in Parliament, and who are concerned to see that full and final settlements of Treaty breaches are now not full and final if it is politically expedient 

(there is obviously no legal case, and it cannot be that any new policy that impingements on property gained in a settlement gives rise to compensation anymore than a policy that benefits such property results in the iwi owing the Crown).

so in sum: the speech isn&#039;t anti-Maori but it was inevitably going to be interpreted that way by media and many on the left. in that respect it&#039;s a mistake and it remains to be seen if it is costly or not. but the speech does raise legitimate issues that will resonate with many (non-racist) people and I think it may come to be viewed as a success in  that respect. 

And if we look at the meta-narrative, this is about Labour not being seen as pandering to special interest groups in fact criticising National for favouring such a group (the iwi elite that is, not Maori in general), a further separation of Goff from the bad/unpopular side of Clark&#039;s legacy. 

I am completely of the mind that for the last 25 years Labour has been hijacked by the liberal wing and the socialist wing has been forgotten, and that is what National turned into the nanny state, &#039;out of touch&#039; memes - Labour wasn&#039;t doing enough for the working person, too much social policy, not enough economic.

If Goff can go aggressively left on materialist issues, I&#039;ll be happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I haven&#8217;t been quiet really, I had input into this post.</p>
<p>I think if you look at the substance of the speech, I agree with Gordon Campbell, Tumeke!, and Eddie.This isn&#8217;t a rehash of Brash. The criticisms of the ETS stuff are legitimate and he&#8217;s right that National will try to keep the existing F and S framework under a different name (where else can they go?)</p>
<p>On the politics, I&#8217;m not so sure as Eddie that it&#8217;s bad politics. Eddie&#8217;s position is that Goff is pissing off large parts of Labour&#8217;s base and courting rednecks. I disagree. Certainly (and I&#8217;ve heard directly) a lot of Maori supporters of Labour are pissed and there may be a strategic error in that this speech could serve to solidify the Maori Party in the face of a &#8216;common foe&#8217; as it were just as it looked like falling apart. </p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t think that this speech panders to racists. Inevitably, some racists will be attracted by what they see as an anti-Maori message, just as their counterparts on the left are repelled by it but there&#8217;s a larger group (one hates to use the term &#8216;middle New Zealand&#8217;) who are wondering just why National is making these uncosted deals that favour a few corporations who are lucky enough to be represented by a party in Parliament, and who are concerned to see that full and final settlements of Treaty breaches are now not full and final if it is politically expedient </p>
<p>(there is obviously no legal case, and it cannot be that any new policy that impingements on property gained in a settlement gives rise to compensation anymore than a policy that benefits such property results in the iwi owing the Crown).</p>
<p>so in sum: the speech isn&#8217;t anti-Maori but it was inevitably going to be interpreted that way by media and many on the left. in that respect it&#8217;s a mistake and it remains to be seen if it is costly or not. but the speech does raise legitimate issues that will resonate with many (non-racist) people and I think it may come to be viewed as a success in  that respect. </p>
<p>And if we look at the meta-narrative, this is about Labour not being seen as pandering to special interest groups in fact criticising National for favouring such a group (the iwi elite that is, not Maori in general), a further separation of Goff from the bad/unpopular side of Clark&#8217;s legacy. </p>
<p>I am completely of the mind that for the last 25 years Labour has been hijacked by the liberal wing and the socialist wing has been forgotten, and that is what National turned into the nanny state, &#8216;out of touch&#8217; memes &#8211; Labour wasn&#8217;t doing enough for the working person, too much social policy, not enough economic.</p>
<p>If Goff can go aggressively left on materialist issues, I&#8217;ll be happy.</p>
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		<title>By: luva</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175111</link>
		<dc:creator>luva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175111</guid>
		<description>Brilliant politics from Phil Goff.

He (and Labour) have been in real need of an issue that middle New Zealand will jump on board with them. The blue collar workers who deserted them over the past three years have had nothing from this &#039;offer nothing opposition&#039; to get them excited.

This is the issue that will bring those voters back home to Labour if Goff plays this correctly.

With the F &amp; S on the agenda Goff now has the opportunity to win back support and take on the Nats at their own game.

I expect a 5% boost following this speech to both Goff and Labour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant politics from Phil Goff.</p>
<p>He (and Labour) have been in real need of an issue that middle New Zealand will jump on board with them. The blue collar workers who deserted them over the past three years have had nothing from this &#8216;offer nothing opposition&#8217; to get them excited.</p>
<p>This is the issue that will bring those voters back home to Labour if Goff plays this correctly.</p>
<p>With the F &amp; S on the agenda Goff now has the opportunity to win back support and take on the Nats at their own game.</p>
<p>I expect a 5% boost following this speech to both Goff and Labour.</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175105</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175105</guid>
		<description>ZB, I&#039;m familiar with the speech, and familiar enough with the general discourse in which it is founded to see the copious handwaving which generalises &#039;the party&#039; out to &#039;the people&#039;. Yes, at a policy level it&#039;s explicitly directed at the party, but at a discursive level it speaks to the old tropes which are wheeled out every time this comes up in NZ politics: separatism, brown privilege, whitey being denied his birthright, race war. Labour should be better than that. 

You can read my expanded thoughts on the mÄori party&#039;s position WRT the ETS &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/09/hoiho-trading/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ZB, I&#8217;m familiar with the speech, and familiar enough with the general discourse in which it is founded to see the copious handwaving which generalises &#8216;the party&#8217; out to &#8216;the people&#8217;. Yes, at a policy level it&#8217;s explicitly directed at the party, but at a discursive level it speaks to the old tropes which are wheeled out every time this comes up in NZ politics: separatism, brown privilege, whitey being denied his birthright, race war. Labour should be better than that. </p>
<p>You can read my expanded thoughts on the mÄori party&#8217;s position WRT the ETS <a href="http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/09/hoiho-trading/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175104</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175104</guid>
		<description>Marty, you&#039;ve been curiously quiet on this, and I half expected you to come out in support (and not &lt;i&gt;just&lt;/i&gt; because we usually disagree). What&#039;s your take?

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marty, you&#8217;ve been curiously quiet on this, and I half expected you to come out in support (and not <i>just</i> because we usually disagree). What&#8217;s your take?</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: BLiP</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175103</link>
		<dc:creator>BLiP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175103</guid>
		<description>The speech reeks of desperation and is either a cynical dog whistle or an example of a paucity of intellect. Both probably.

Also, it pisses me off when simple historical facts are ignored or distorted by politicians. Perhaps Goff didn&#039;t know, but Maori and Pakeha have stood side by side on foreign battlefields since 1900. I have neither the time nor the inclination to address the other inaccuracies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The speech reeks of desperation and is either a cynical dog whistle or an example of a paucity of intellect. Both probably.</p>
<p>Also, it pisses me off when simple historical facts are ignored or distorted by politicians. Perhaps Goff didn&#8217;t know, but Maori and Pakeha have stood side by side on foreign battlefields since 1900. I have neither the time nor the inclination to address the other inaccuracies.</p>
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		<title>By: George D</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-175101</link>
		<dc:creator>George D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=26220#comment-175101</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re being an idiot and refusing to address the points I have made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re being an idiot and refusing to address the points I have made.</p>
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