Goldman Sachs. Global Inc?

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1. Pascal's bookie 1

   29 November 2012 at 10:40 am

   “Oh, for a sperm whale”

   heh.

   I’d settle for a Roosevelt at this rate.
2. AAMC 2

   29 November 2012 at 10:57 am

   Another article on the Goldman Sac’s Global Coup;

   http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/12996-goldman-sachs-global-coup-de-tat
3. King Kong 3

   29 November 2012 at 11:29 am

   I was recruited by Goldman Sachs when I was only 11 years old. I recieved extensive training and have been a sleeper agent untill yesterday.

   My cell chief, John Key, contacted me and gave me orders to start taking deposits from innocent members of the public and lending to others at a higher interest rate than I am borrowing for.

   I simply can’t carry out such a monstrous act and am now on the run. I know they will find me and can only imagine the horror of what they will do to me when they do.

   Tell my wife I love her.
   • AAMC 3.1

     29 November 2012 at 11:35 am

     And if it wasn’t for the escalating suicide rates in Greece, that might be humorous.
     • King Kong 3.1.1

       29 November 2012 at 11:41 am

       Deleted.

       [RL: Nah… humour fail.]
     • Gosman 3.1.2

       29 November 2012 at 12:42 pm

       Pretty sure noone forced the Greeks to do anything they weren’t wanting to do prior to the recent problems.

       Why do many leftists treat sovereign nation states as if they are infants who are incapable of taking responsibility for their bad decisions?
       • vto 3.1.2.1

         29 November 2012 at 1:08 pm

         said from a bank bailed out
         • Gosman 3.1.2.1.1

           29 November 2012 at 1:14 pm

           Considering I’ve never argued for bank bailouts I fail to see why this is relevant.
           • vto 3.1.2.1.1.1

             29 November 2012 at 1:17 pm

             I am trying to do anonymous blogging. Answering your point with no reference to the past or future of the author.
       • AAMC 3.1.2.2

         29 November 2012 at 1:20 pm

         That’s exactly right Gosman, what were the Germans thinking with all that predatory lending.
       • thatguynz 3.1.2.3

         29 November 2012 at 1:26 pm

         It doesn’t really matter whether Greece were forced to or did so of their own volition.  The fact remains that there were two sides to the “secret” deal that enabled Greece to satisfy the Euro entry conditions.
          
         http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-06/goldman-secret-greece-loan-shows-two-sinners-as-client-unravels.html
       • Tracey 3.1.2.4

         29 November 2012 at 1:33 pm

         you mean like bailing out banks when they manage their businesses badly? Is that what you mean by taking responsibility for bad decisions. It’s not a “leftist” policy as such, it’s a capitalist policy.
       • AAMC 3.1.2.5

         29 November 2012 at 1:50 pm

         And why do “Rightists” treat corporate monopolists as benign actors disseminating perfect information to which ‘the market’ can act rationally and efficiently allocate resources?

         It’s not the ineffective Left standing in the way of a free market utopia, it’s the corporate central planners who’ve captured government. The last thing these guys want is a free market.

         I’ve had some very productive discussions with pure Austrians Gosman, none of them defend cronyism and corporate welfare the way you do.
   • KJT 3.2

     29 November 2012 at 1:25 pm

     “taking deposits from innocent members of the public and lending to others at a higher interest rate than I am borrowing for”.

     If that was actually what companies such as ‘Goldman Sacks everyone’, really did, we would not have too great a problem with them. In fact they would then serve a, somewhat, useful purpose.

     http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-how-goldman-gambled-on-starvation-2016088.html

     Instead off stuffing the world economy with gambling, expanding monied wealth beyound the ability to pay, losing pension funds, starving millions and then expecting those not involved, such as Greece’s poor, to pay the costs of bailing them out.
   • Tracey 3.3

     29 November 2012 at 1:32 pm

     I can believe you’ve slept alot.
4. euboulia 4

   29 November 2012 at 12:08 pm

   I know a guy who works for Goldman. “Amoral” would be putting it mildly.
   • Gosman 4.1

     29 November 2012 at 12:45 pm

     And I knew a guy who ran a left wing NGO in NZ who was a complete A-hole and nutter. That doesn’t mean all people who work for left wing NGO’s are like that or that the NGO it self was flawed.
     • euboulia 4.1.1

       29 November 2012 at 1:46 pm

       You don’t understand. All of Goldman is like this.
       • Populuxe1 4.1.1.1

         29 November 2012 at 3:32 pm

         So you have personally met and psychologically analysed every single person  who works for Goldman Sachs, or are you just making sweeping assumptions about hundreds of people you know nothing about to suit your own prejudices?
         • RedLogix 4.1.1.1.1

           29 November 2012 at 3:36 pm

           Then again there is the thought that anyone who can stomach working for them, or is capable of that level of self-deception, is probably worth making some sweeping assumptions about.
           • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1.1.1

             29 November 2012 at 3:39 pm

             GS doesn’t have the nickname “Vampire Squid” for nothing.

             For other insights, this is a great blog to read.

             http://www.theibanker.com/
           • Populuxe1 4.1.1.1.1.2

             29 November 2012 at 3:55 pm

             Which is equivalent to a right-winger comparing everyone on the left want’s to bring about a bloody armed revolution with all the delightful trappings Stalin had to offer.
             • RedLogix …

               29 November 2012 at 5:47 pm

               It’s probably worth committing a Godwin here and point out that if some had been a member of the Gestapo, no-one would be all that impressed if they bleated “But I knew nothing about the Jews”.

               Note carefully I’m not drawing a moral equivalence between the Gestapo and Goldman Sachs. But I am saying that if you work for an organisation that has been widely condemned for it’s predatory and entrenched amoral practises … pleading ignorance is not much of a defense, no matter how nice a person you are.
               • Populuxe1 …

                 29 November 2012 at 6:03 pm

                 But the Gestapo were only one part of the Nazi apparatus. It was revulsion among the officer class of the Wehrmacht at mass killings of Jews in Ukraine that inspired the assassination attempt on Hitler’s life. However way you cut it, it’s still a generalisation.
                 • RedLogix …

                   29 November 2012 at 11:15 pm

                   No. It’s a moral choice.

                   A few years ago I turned down a very well paid offer from a head-hunter who wanted me to work for an Australian coal mine. The job had my name all over it, the location was great and the conditions brilliant.

                   But I turned it down because if I ever worked for a coal company I’d never, ever be able to say anything about global warming ever again.

                   That’s what moral choice is really about pop … putting the truth ahead of your own personal interests. Anyone who works for GoldmanSachs is merely putting their own personal salary and career ahead of doing the right thing. They may be perfectly decent, hard-working people… but their loyalty to something that is not any of these things brands them as collaborators.
         • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1.2

           29 November 2012 at 7:01 pm

           http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/daily-pulse/murders-acquisitions-traders-are-psycho-study

           That’s the result of a study from the University of St Gallen in Switzerland, Der Spiegel reports. Researchers ran tests on 28 traders, and found that stockbrokers’ behavior is more reckless and manipulative than that of psychopaths.
5. Gosman 5

   29 November 2012 at 12:50 pm

   This smacks of the old Jew baiting tricks that used to go on in the first half of last century, although now it has morphed into the ‘Evil Goldman Sachs’ Investment bank rather than the Jewish money lenders.

   You are aware that Goldman Sachs isn’t like a big fraternity house which holds regular reunion’s for former alumni aren’t you?

   Are you also aware that the people you link to Goldman Sachs are also likely to have worked for other financial institutions as well?
   • thatguynz 5.1

     29 November 2012 at 12:52 pm

     Very simple question Gos – do you fundamentally agree with Goldman Sachs’ business practices?
     • Gosman 5.1.1

       29 November 2012 at 1:06 pm

       Not all of them. However we are discussing a large multi-national organisation with a huge range of business areas that it deals with. It would be like stating you think the NZ State sector is fundamentally wrong because of the actions of MSD around the Kiosk security lapse.
       • thatguynz 5.1.1.1

         29 November 2012 at 1:18 pm

         “It would be like stating you think the NZ State sector is fundamentally wrong because of the actions of MSD around the Kiosk security lapse.”
         
         Erm, no it wouldn’t.  It would be like stating that I think that MSD is fundamentally wrong because of the actions of MSD around the Kiosk security lapse.
          
         Just by virtue of being a large multi-national does not diminish the accountability of the hierarchy nor of the corporation as a whole.  GS are centrally controlled – irrespective of where in the world they operate.  William D. Cohen’s “Money and Power” offers a fairly good insight into the history of GS and how they operate internally.
         • Tracey 5.1.1.1.1

           29 November 2012 at 1:35 pm

           “Just by virtue of being a large multi-national does not diminish the accountability of the hierarchy nor of the corporation as a whole” – and yet they suffer few consequences.
   • muzza 5.2

     29 November 2012 at 1:13 pm

     How much tax do the banks pay on the sales of their toxic instruments, for using them to manipulate markets and destroy nations Gosman?

     GS is not the issue, its those who own GS, and all the major banks which are!
     • Gosman 5.2.1

       29 November 2012 at 1:27 pm

       Your first point is more errant nonsense. I have yet to see any country that was fundamentally sound being brought to it’s knees by dodgy trading by investment banks.

       Your second point actually has some validity.
       • thatguynz 5.2.1.1

         29 November 2012 at 1:36 pm

         “I have yet to see any country that was fundamentally sound being brought to it’s knees by dodgy trading by investment banks.”

         
         I thought that was Hank Paulson’s precise reason for bailing out the investment banks etc?  That the fall in liquidity and subsequent institutional failures would in essence trigger a domino effect that would bring world finances to its knees.  Not that I agree with it of course but that was the justification that he used..
         • Gosman 5.2.1.1.1

           29 November 2012 at 1:43 pm

           These evil bankers are intent on destoying nations by destroying themselves first are they? Gosh, they aren’t that clever then.
           • Macro 5.2.1.1.1.1

             29 November 2012 at 1:54 pm

             No they are not Gos in fact they are usually very unclever! Shifty, Unscrupulous, Duplicitous, maybe all of those, but clever. – NO.
           • thatguynz 5.2.1.1.1.2

             29 November 2012 at 1:56 pm

             Is that what I said?  Nice attempt at diversion Gos – I notice you don’t  address the point the point that I ACTUALLY raised.
           • Tracey 5.2.1.1.1.3

             29 November 2012 at 1:56 pm

             Why do you assume they are clever enough to not let their greed make them foolish? Look at the people caught in the latest scam in Aussie, business folks all… Mayors etc…
           • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1.1.4

             29 November 2012 at 3:30 pm

             These evil bankers are intent on destoying nations by destroying themselves first are they? Gosh, they aren’t that clever then.

             *SIGH*

             Let’s review Banksterism 101 shall we.

             1- The failure of a bank due to fraud is not necessarily the failure of the fraud. Bank executives and CEOs usually walk away keeping all their recent bonuses and pay, as well as getting a golden parachute.

             2- The bankruptcy of a bank’s clients due to bad banking and derivative advice from the bank is not necessarily the failure of the bank. Indeed, these investment banks often set themselves up on the other side of the trade. As their clients lose money, they make bigger and bigger profits.
       • Macro 5.2.1.2

         29 November 2012 at 1:42 pm

         You need to open your eyes a bit more Gos.
   • AAMC 5.3

     29 November 2012 at 1:23 pm

     “the Conservative technocrats currently steering or who have steered post-crash fiscal policy in Greece, Germany, Italy, Belgium, France, and now the UK, all hail from Goldman Sachs. In fact, the head of the European Central Bank itself, Mario Draghi, was the former managing director of Goldman Sachs International.

     And here in the United States, after Treasury Secretary and former Goldman CEO Henry Paulsen did his job in 2008 securing Goldman’s multi-billion dollar bailout, he was replaced in the new Obama administration with Tim Geithner who worked very closely with Goldman Sachs as head of the New York Fed and made sure Goldman received more than $14 billion from the bailout of failed insurance giant AIG. “
     • Gosman 5.3.1

       29 November 2012 at 1:38 pm

       Goldman Sach’s paid back all the TARP funds they received plus interest. The US Federal Government made money off them.
       • thatguynz 5.3.1.1

         29 November 2012 at 1:40 pm

         True but unless I’m very much mistaken, their payout from AIG (at 100c in the dollar) wasn’t a TARP bailout to GS.  It was payment from the govt to AIG to enable them to honour their debt obligations to GS.
       • AAMC 5.3.1.2

         29 November 2012 at 1:41 pm

         doing quite nicely outta that discount window, QE1,2 & 3, ZIRP. Not great proponents of your ‘Free Market” these monopolistic corporate welfare recipients you’re defending Gosman.

         The point of that quote was to illustrate how far they’ve infiltrated global governance, this merger of State and Corporation would have to be bordering on Socialism / Corporat Central Planning wouldn’t it Gosman, and you’re defending it?
         • Gosman 5.3.1.2.1

           29 November 2012 at 1:58 pm

           I’ve stated in the past that I am against the concepts behind QE on the whole. One of the reasons is because it enables players like GS to benefit massively. However QE is a Government/Monetary policy decision not Goldman Sachs’. You can hardly blame GS for profiting off State stupidity.

           GS haven’t infiltrated anything. Former employees of the organisations have gone on to other roles. The fact they used to work for an organisation is largely irrelevant unless you provide a current link between them.
           • Tracey 5.3.1.2.1.1

             29 November 2012 at 2:02 pm

             Do you believe that the Board/Chair of GS doesn’t have the ear of policy makers in various countries? Like in the USA for example?
           • AAMC 5.3.1.2.1.2

             29 November 2012 at 2:39 pm

             The architects of this Government Monetary policy? Ex bankers! Those who lobbied to repeal Glass–Steagall, Bankers. Those who crashed the economy with a ponzi scheme of sub prime debt and financial instruments necessitating TARP, QE, ZIRP, bankers.
           • AAMC 5.3.1.2.1.3

             29 November 2012 at 2:50 pm

             the entire banking / monetary establishment of Europe is now run by Goldman alumni, I take your point about them only being ex employees, if there were only a few spots filled by them I’d be prepared to accept it.

             But however you view it, it’s impossible to proclaim that the culture of Goldman Sac’s via these appointments hasn’t infiltrated the establishment. And as precedent has showed via TARP, ex Goldman staff tend to act in Goldman’s interests and definitely act in the interests of our monetary overlords, bot in the interests of the citizenry.
   • AAMC 5.4

     29 November 2012 at 1:39 pm

     Nice infographic in this piece,

     http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/what-price-the-new-democracy-goldman-sachs-conquers-europe-6264091.html
6. Ennui in Requiem 6

   29 November 2012 at 1:06 pm

   Thats right Gos…here in Purgatory we don’t see bankers at all: Satan decided that to fast track their disappearance into eternal brimstone and fiery torment. A few of the devils who prod us are Goldman Sachs execs…..their job is to bore us senseless, prodding us out of sheer frustration because Satan (in a concession to God) has banned usury, and they cant charge us any interest. Drives them into an absolute fury, especially as Lucifer runs an inflationary fiscal policy.

   PS Lucifer just went by saying something like “not a drop of blood”….he had some Venetian Jewish fellow in tow….the man in question I am assured is the great grand daddy of all GS bankers.
   • Tracey 6.1

     29 November 2012 at 1:57 pm

     By the sounds of it they dont know they’re dead, just at a corporate dinner
     • Ennui in Requiem 6.1.1

       29 November 2012 at 3:23 pm

       They soon realize when the Gucci shoes melt and the Armani suits immolate………the bit which causes them real pain is the realization that the wealth they “accumulated” in life is not transportable in death. We then taunt them about the pointlessness of their vile former life.
7. vto 7

   29 November 2012 at 4:37 pm

   The fact this conversation is even going on indicates the situation is one of extremity and out of the ordinary.

   The entire banking system has wormed and worked its way into becoming an integral part of each and every economy. Was having exactly this conversation just today when assessing how risk and return (margins etc) in two separate business models in the same sector of the economy can be so apparently different, even when accounting for their differences (the real ones)….

   … the conclusion come to pretty quickly was that the two models were each predicated on the basis of bank’s lending practices. i.e. the banking and financial systems have become so embedded that they distort the realities. Our current ‘reality’ involves the necessity of considering the payment system for the product as much as the actual use of the product.

   Now this of course, with some good thought, is ludicrous. Money is just a means of exchange, but by the century-plus long actions of the banking sector, money has become just as much the actual transaction. And this is the achilles heal, the fundamental flaw, the sign of breakdown, indicator of end-game, etc etc.

   The exchange is the exchange. Money just facilitates the exchange and is a very very minor minor component. Or should be. But is it? No way – for example, property invstment is integral with banking. How much of our housing sector involves payments to banks, in various forms?

   It is insidious. It is a ghastly poison that now runs in our veins.

   Getting rid of it will be like draining the veins.
   • RedLogix 7.1

     29 November 2012 at 4:46 pm

     It was once pointed out to me that all of the world’s major religions either prohibit usury altogether, or stipulate a very low interest rate. Indeed of all the things they could say about economics, placing strict limitations on the charging of interest is about the one thing on this theme they all have in common.

     For all that economics likes to parade about as a ‘science’; it would have done an awful lot better if had paid a lot more attention to this ancient and almost universal piece of wisdom.
     • vto 7.1.1

       29 November 2012 at 4:57 pm

       Exactly redlogix.

       By means of interest, usury, the banking system has wormed its way to being paid a mind-bogglingly large portion of the economy’s output. It is completely and utterly out of whack.

       The payment of interest for the use of capital / money serves no good or useful purpose for manwomankind.

       Of course that is hard for some in our current society to understand given its ingrained nature (e.g. “money in the bank earns interest blah blah always been like that” ” how do you earn money from your money then?” People who promote these lines always have no understanding of the system they have been embedded in. Sad but true, and a direct result of the banking system being kept from our education system, among others).

       Your point redlogix highlights a wisdom of the ages. It also highlights how far we in the west are out of sync with this issue.

       Ban interest. It is the only way.
       • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1

         29 November 2012 at 7:23 pm

         ” how do you earn money from your money then?”

         And the same people who do that will also castigate an unemployed person for not working even if they want to and say nothing against the person who has ten times the income from interest as the unemployed person and yet does less work.

         Ban interest. It is the only way.

         And stop private banks from creating money.
         • vto 7.1.1.1.1

           29 November 2012 at 7:54 pm

           Here is an estimate measure that should scare the undies off anyone with loose undies…

           I reckon at least 10% of a person’s working life (and probably closer to 20%) would go to paying banks.

           10-20% of a persons working life. For no good purpose.

           What a waste.
           • RedLogix 7.1.1.1.1.1

             30 November 2012 at 8:04 am

             You might want to have another read of this old post of mine:

             http://thestandard.org.nz/i-owe-my-soul%E2%80%A6-to-the-company-store/

             The main takeaway is the graph of Keen’s model. It demonstrates mathematically exactly how usury inevitably undermines society and the economy that is built upon it.

             The ancients had worked this out empirically; the were after all the masters of intelligent observation.
             • vto …

               30 November 2012 at 8:24 am

               That is exactly what I was hopelessly trying to say. Good post and worthy of repetitive repitition given its dramatic effect on all of our daily lives, right now today.

               Maybe John Key would also like to posit an opinion on such a major problem component of our economy and challenge to our society? Could one of our esteemed named journalists ask him perhap?
8. KhandallaMan 8

   29 November 2012 at 5:04 pm

   Bill
   I don’t like the hint of global-conspiracy in your story.

   At other times in history and in different continents people ascribed a grand-plan to the presence of one race or religion in particular trades or professions.  

   Don’t go down that path.  It leads to a very ugly place. 

   Let the RWNJs on Kiwiblog maintain their ascendancy on conspiracy stories: e.g. Global warming; Moon landing, Obama’s birth cert; Helen’s UN job et al….
   • vto 8.1

     29 November 2012 at 5:17 pm

     Mr Kandallala, humans have conspired since day dot. To conspire is to act in one of our base manners. In fact, it is one of the reasons we have ended up where we are on the planet.

     Don’t get sucked in by the “oh you’re just a conspiracy theorist” bullshit.

     Tell me you have never been subjected to a conspiracy…. In fact, I challenge anyone to claim they have never conducted a conspiracy or been subjected to one.
   • Colonial Viper 8.2

     29 November 2012 at 5:17 pm

     Get a grip and look at the facts, no matter how painful they may be. Which includes a massive globalised financialisation of the world economy, generally at the expense of the productive real economy. Wall St versus main St.

     Don’t go down that path. It leads to a very ugly place.

     The ugly place is actually right here right now. It’s ALL OF US who are getting destroyed by this scam, entire sovereign countries and peoples RIGHT NOW.

     Here’s the Banker’s Guide to Owning it All

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuIHSWRAz5Y&feature=g-all

     And here’s Max Keiser explaining it a little bit more

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XliTvxqTtsE
9. Rogue Trooper 9

   29 November 2012 at 7:55 pm

   Yes it was never gonna be just the “money”
10. JEHR 10

    30 November 2012 at 4:38 am

    See: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/11/mark-carney-vs-andy-haldane-the-bank-of-canada-governor-is-wrong-on-too-big-to-fail-and-wrong-on-canadas-banking-system.html

    Under Mark Carney, Canada’s banking system was bailed out to the tune of $114 which works out to more on a per capita basis than the TARP. It is just that our government lied to us about it:

    Also see: http://www.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/National%20Office/2012/04/Big%20Banks%20Big%20Secret.pdf

    And Mark Carney lied about not wanting to be Governor of the Bank of England:

    See: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-09/carney-says-yes-to-never-considering-bank-of-england-chief-job.html

    Maybe he deserves to go from the frying pan into the fire!
11. Johnm 11

    30 November 2012 at 11:35 am

    “The People vs. Goldman Sachs
    A Senate committee has laid out the evidence. Now the Justice Department should bring criminal charges ”

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28124.htm

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405
12. muzza 12

    30 November 2012 at 4:43 pm

    What, the justice departments which are controlled by the same influences that controlls GS..

    An out of court settlement and another fine equalting to single digit % of the fraud value, will be as much as might happen here!

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