Green Party for democracy

34 comments on “Green Party for democracy ”

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1. Macro 1

   31 May 2013 at 11:31 am

   I have been a voter for around 20 elections and have therefore witnessed at least 20 different governments as an adult. I have to say that apart from perhaps the Muldoon govt and the immediate Lange Govt (in which Prebble, Douglas et al held sway) this crowd have to be the most abusive of power that I have ever had the misfortune to witness. Indeed I would say that they outstrip even Muldoon; for theirs is not just a desire to control – but the blatant cronyism, the dishonesty, the greed, the complete disregard for the democratic process, the graft, not to mention blatant theft, makes them the most despicable of all. How ANYONE, who is not a direct recipient of their greed, can continue to support them, is beyond comprehension.
   • aerobubble 1.1

     31 May 2013 at 12:00 pm

     No, its not beyond comprehension. There’s a class of people who follow, who mimic their betters, and during the ever increasing oil surplus after the oil scare of the 70s, they were rewarded for their compliance to the Tory paradigm, loose monetary policy, banks rising leveraging ratios (banks printing money essentially), deregulation, regulatory capture, etc, all looked good because growth kept coming. But here’s the thing, the growth was going to come anyway, all the policies of the Tories was to funnel it, inhibit it (trickle down was all many were to get), and hand it over to a few global oligarchs. And there’s the rub, all these right of center voters, zombie voters if you will, have created a monster that they now have to consciously disown, yet they’ve spent their rational facilities on blindly supporting their own impoverishment, housing bubble, leak homes, regulation that incentives building a few large homes than lots of quite warm adequate small homes are in heavy demand. Its distortion capitalism gone mad, incapable of revising itself and heading for the cliff.
     So the answer is for voters to be led to the executioner either kicking and screaming (housing collapse) or by electing a rational government who will remove the distorting processes (regulation and laws, and introduce a CGT etc) and let the bubble deflate with some stability.
     • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

       31 May 2013 at 12:05 pm

       Jeremy Grantham, founder and investment strategist for hedge fund GMO, said that between 1902 and 2002 commondity, materials and energy prices collapsed by a real 75% – a huge boost for anyone trying to get rich during that time frame. People could look damn clever getting rich, without acknowledging that they were riding a much bigger wave.

       But between 2002 and 2010, that entire 100 years of commodity price deflation was reversed in just 8 years.

       His view – we have hit a one in a million turning point, a secular change in the availability and pricing of raw materials and energy.

       Next 50 years is going to be very very interesting, and not necessarily in a good way.
     • Macro 1.1.2

       31 May 2013 at 12:45 pm

       Yes I understand all you say aero. But actually I wasn’t talking about that……
       I was commenting on the abuse of power and the collapse of the democratic process, referred to in Karol’s post above, and I was also noting that not only was this Government abusing the process for their own ends and that of their mates, it was corrupt in other ways as well. It’s all very well for voters to support a Party because that is where they think their interest lies, but it is another matter for them to continually turn a blind eye to obvious corruption, blatant cronyism, and greed.
       • aerobubble 1.1.2.1

         6 June 2013 at 12:34 pm

         The lazy governing practices of our current administration is the culmination of thirty years of zombies voting for these idiot who believe all they need do is spin whatever policy they think in their tiny minds is the best. Unfortunately this both ignores the parliamentary process of consensus building and builds policy in a ever tightening list of neo-liberal assumptions that turns free market thinking on its head, i.e. intervention of govt to support casinos and leave miners high on exhaust fumes, etc, etc. Its precisely because they’ve had it so easy, that zombies kept selecting them for their ability to spin rather than to perform, that they can’t understand, don’t need, don’t care for government, governance, or consequence of poorly thought through policies. Take Judith Collins and her support for terrorism, her new objectionable legislation will make it illegal to depict the prophet, Muslims globally are in awe of her trashing our free speech liberties.
   • asd 1.2

     31 May 2013 at 2:04 pm

     Everything you said is why I can’t fathom why the polls are not responding more heavily against National than they should be for their continual terrible behaviour. My only guess is that once Shearer is gone and replaced with a stronger alternative the slide and the tide against National will accelerate until Labour/Greens win either the next election or the one after it.
     • aerobubble 1.2.1

       6 June 2013 at 12:39 pm

       One thought was that the new power policy left many who were asked did they feel the country was finally heading in the right direction more likely to leave the election question, as they know who they were going to switch to, but just had less buy in right now the good news of lower power prices…
2. fambo 2

   31 May 2013 at 11:35 am

   Yes, if anyone who is not well acquainted with the Greens investigated its party structure, it would find that the democratic political processes are paramount when it comes to keeping the party going and coming up with policies. This can be a weakness politically in that the public tends to latch on to personalities more easily than a party, but it gives long term strength in that it gives more stability over the longer term and personalities are not able to over-ride policies. However, I believe there is a place for personality in politics as human beings are emotional beings so some balance is required.
3. Yes 3

   31 May 2013 at 11:59 am

   I feel you are mis-guided by the former communist Russel Norman. national have taken austerity measures which i wont deny.

   Russel is taking Labour over by stealth I CANT BELIEVE YOU GUYS CAN NOT SEE THIS.
   • One Anonymous Knucklehead 3.1

     31 May 2013 at 12:14 pm

     Feeble. You need better lies.
   • Grumpy 3.2

     31 May 2013 at 12:17 pm

     News flash!!!

     Ex Aussie Communist Party illuminati goes “democratic” – Tui billboard designer “interested”.
     • Te Reo Putake 3.2.1

       31 May 2013 at 1:28 pm

       Norman was in the Democratic Socialist Party, not the CP. It’s a Trotskyist organisation not a communist one. Funnily enough, they cancelled my candidate membership because I advocated working with Labor and the leadership of the time actually considered social democracy to be a greater evil than neo liberalism, so I was swiftly culled.

       So, big ups to Russel Norman for leaving that blinkered perspective behind. He’ll be an excellent Minister in the next government.
       • Grumpy 3.2.1.1

         31 May 2013 at 5:42 pm

         Left it behind?? Yah reckon??
       • Jenny 3.2.1.2

         1 June 2013 at 5:09 am

         So, big ups to Russel Norman for leaving that blinkered perspective behind. He’ll be an excellent Minister in the next government.

         Te Reo Putake

         If Norman is to become a Minister in the next government, it will come at a cost.

         That cost will be the Green Party’s advocacy for the environment. In particular their advocacy for action against climate change.

         As you well know TRP, Labour are fully in support of coal mining the Denniston Plateau. Labour, also support Deep Sea Oil exploration drilling. (the same sort of drilling that led to the Deep Water Horizon disaster). As well as this, Labour also conditionally support Fracking. And until recently Labour championed the completely crazy coal to diesel scheme. A scheme that was launched under a Labour administration. This Labour Party supported, boondoggle on the edge of fantasy, as well as being extremely damaging to the climate, almost broke Solid Energy.

         The Labour Party will not bend on Denniston, or Deep Sea Oil Drilling, or even Fracking, as a condition of coalition with the Greens.

         For Norman to become a Minister in a Labour led administration, the Green Party will have to swallow these poisonousness climate changing dead rats.

         As members of the government Green MPs will not be allowed to put up bills opposing government policy. Effectively, this will end the Green Party’s opposition to climate change in parliament, for at least the next three years, (maybe even longer).

         Personally I think this cost is too high. And in my opinion could even, eventually see the end of the Green Party as a political force.

         The Green Party choice couldn’t be clearer.

         Adopt the Maori Party strategy that, “It is better to have a seat at the table”. Or, the Mana Party strategy that it is better to advocate for what you want to achieve in parliament outside of government.

         Which strategy has been more effective?

         I leave it to the readers to decide what strategy works best. But as is being proved daily by the Maori Party. And was proved earlier by the Alliance Party. Trading principal for Ministerial positions, rang their death knell.
   • Naturesong 3.3

     31 May 2013 at 12:27 pm

     Please explain; Russel Norman and stealth in the same sentence is a bit of a non sequitur.

     And when you say “communism” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism), are you actually aware of Dr Norman’s history?

     He has tied his colours publicly and consistently to the mast of Social Democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy). Centre left for those keeping score.

     Other ideas you may find useful;
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_think

     And a quote from one of the coolest people ever;

     Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.
   • weka 3.4

     31 May 2013 at 12:35 pm

     “I feel you are mis-guided by the former communist Russel Norman.”

     Ae, that needs a citation.

     “Russel is taking Labour over by stealth I CANT BELIEVE YOU GUYS CAN NOT SEE THIS.”

     He’s not even a member of the Labour party. Where is this stealth influence you speak of? I think what you mean is that Norman and the GP are talking over Labour policy and thus votes, and I’m pretty sure that most Labour people are well aware of this. The problem is that some don’t seem to care (and I’m not talking about ts commenters and authors).
     • Yes 3.4.1

       31 May 2013 at 2:05 pm

       he sees Shearer as weak – easy take over – it is a simple plan used a 100 times before.

       See my argument has always been – if labour want to get my vote again (which I have done before) – I want to know what labour stands for not labour/Green – I have no idea who I am following.

       Guys before you abuse me – please just think about what I am saying.

       I want one leader to follow – not 2 and a committee.
       • One Anonymous Knucklehead 3.4.1.1

         31 May 2013 at 3:09 pm

         The wingnuts must feel genuinely threatened. Watching them squirm makes good sport, despite the limited imagination on display.
         • Yes 3.4.1.1.1

           31 May 2013 at 5:04 pm

           who are the wingnuts? excuse my lack of understanding on some of the coined phrases on here about people.

           Democracy is important – all I am saying is that the Greens are working very hard to take over the left side of nz voters – attack the middle ground of the labour voters andinflict some damage on the nats.

           they are doing a very good job.

           Its strategic planning 101 and I just want labour to get shot of them – stand on its own to feet and give us some good policies.

           I like that labour defends the poor and trodden – but it will only labour who will be poor and trodden if greens are allowed to continue their march into headlines, policies and fighting for the lost causes.

           maybe I am fighting a lost cause – but at least here is my statement – greens are beating labour at every post – 33% poll vote is vulnerable – if labour got their act together they will get at least 40% – and regained the left wing vote or younger voters who are sitting the green 10 or 15%

           here is a brave move – david asks norman that greens now come under the labour umbrella, even the maori party and mana party.

           If Russell is a good man and cares about the country and democracy – he would say YES.

           bet you he wont
           • One Anonymous Knucklehead 3.4.1.1.1.1

             31 May 2013 at 5:19 pm

             It’s a contraction of ‘right wing nut job’.

             My expectation is that the Devil Beast will win the next election, and all the cry-baby pants-wetting wingnuts will look like complete tools when Labour/Green form a perfectly stable government that delivers better results than the incompetent troughers we’ve got at the moment.
           • karol 3.4.1.1.1.2

             31 May 2013 at 5:20 pm

             Yes, you are dreaming. The answer to the Labour caucuses current weak state is not to co-opt other parties that are in a healthier position.

             Of course the Greens are trying to increase their vote, as does any political party. If they are picking up left votes, it’s because the Labour Caucus have deserted the low income battlers, in their attempt to court the centrist voters.

             I have voted Green in recent years, and would be appalled if the Greens put themselves under Labour’s umbrella, especially given the current state of the Labour caucus. A smallish party does better staying independent. Look what has happened to the likes of the Maori Party when they cosy up to a bigger party. Staying independent gives the Greens more potential to develop clear left wing policies.

             It’s up to the Labour Caucus to get itself in order, rather than to try to hi-jack the Greens or any other smaller party.
             • Yes …

               31 May 2013 at 5:32 pm

               Thanks Karol..while I might be dreaming..at least you agree that labour needs to be dominate and get back to it’s traditional base. Maybe my posts aren’t in vain
               • One Anonymous Knucklehead …

                 31 May 2013 at 5:54 pm

                 Vain? Yep.
               • karol …

                 31 May 2013 at 5:58 pm

                 I don’t care which truly left party is dominant, or even if two are fairly equally dominant. Right now, the Labour caucus leadership has lost it’s way. Any party needs to be clear about its values and related policies, however big (or small) they are.
                 • Yes …

                   31 May 2013 at 6:07 pm

                   But why can’t labour ditch greens and be alone. Greens are taking over
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     31 May 2013 at 6:11 pm

                     You might as well ask why Key has kept John Banks around.
                   • Tim …

                     31 May 2013 at 7:18 pm

                     @ Yes
                     Does it really matter IF Greens are taking over – as long as they represent a democratic ‘left’?
                     Unless there is some of their policies you object to that are of such an overriding force that negates their positives, what’s in a name? – or is it just that you don’t like Norman (or some other personality). As you say – you want one leader to follow.
                     Personally I rather have a committee that’s representative of an electorate than one leader that sheeple ‘follow’.
                     I’ve given up on voting for Labour given their recent record. Under the current circumstances, IF I voted Labour, it would be for sentimental reasons only in a vain hope that one day they might wake up and return to their roots and principles. Meantime I’m running out of life waiting.

                     And does it matter if there has to be some sort of accommodation between parties in order to achieve that ‘better deal’ we all strive for? It is, after all an MMP environment.
                     I’m not voting Labour because they’ve quite simply lost their way, and a few over-ambitious self-interested people have managed to hijack the party. Others are showing more signs of stepping up to the plate to fill that vacuum.
   • bad12 3.5

     31 May 2013 at 12:44 pm

     Oh my god, you have just opened my eyes to the evil Doctor Norman’s plan, having voted for the nice Green Party on the basis of saving the planet i honestly am at a loss of what to do,

     Please help me with advice as even tho you give every indication of being some form of really fucked up retard you must be super-intelligent to have uncovered the devious plot by the Doctor…
4. Colonial Viper 4

   31 May 2013 at 12:54 pm

   Ahhh back to the Reds Under the Bed and the Dancing Cossack ads
5. Cant remember my last username 5

   31 May 2013 at 1:43 pm

   If the green party ever got into sole power, I wonder how long it would take for them to lose all democratic principles and initiate a secret police to keep the ‘naive’ populace in line with the revolution?

   Given how strongly the population rebelled vs. Labours ‘mini ‘nanny state they would have kittens with what the Green’s would ultimately introduce
   • karol 5.1

     31 May 2013 at 5:27 pm

     LOL. More spin lines from the right. It’s interesting that they are trying to smear the Greens as undemocratic left, when some Labour/left supporters have spent a lot of time on this site, in the last year or so, saying how “blue” and centrist or right wing the Green Party is.

     The NAct government’s record is now one of having made a long string of substantial attacks on democracy, in terms of over-riding democratic democratic process, and restricting citizens and workers’ rights. I just don’t know how right wingers can keep a straight face when attacking Clark’s alleged “nanny state” and the Greens as potentially being dictatorial.

     We already have a pretty radical right-wing Daddy state.
     • kiwicommie 5.1.1

       31 May 2013 at 7:43 pm

       They want to divide and destroy the center and center-left, by encouraging suspicion and distrust between Labour, the Greens and other opposition parties. Divide and conquer strategy.
   • Colonial Viper 5.2

     31 May 2013 at 6:09 pm

     You must be really worried about National’s snooping enabling legislation then.
6. Penny Bright 6

   31 May 2013 at 1:46 pm

   Holly Walker – Green Party Housing Spokesperson did a very good job yesterday, and I would like to publicly thank her for presenting the following petition:

   http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Presented/Petitions/5/0/5/50DBHOH_PET3157_1-Petition-of-Penelope-Mary-Bright-requesting-that.htm

   Petition of Penelope Mary Bright

   Requesting that Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics”high”population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated, taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon “medium” population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.

   Petition number: 2011/64
   Presented by: Holly Walker
   Date presented: 30 May 2013
   Referred to: Social Services Committee

   ______________________________________________________________________________

   EVIDENCE proving the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics”high”population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan can be found HERE:

   http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?page_id=145

   PS: I DID manage to get a submission in on this Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill, and it is my intention to address the Social Services Select Committee in person.

   Penny Bright
   ‘Anti-corruption/ anti-privatisation campaigner’

   2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

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