Herald calls win for Hide

Written By: - Date published: 10:16 am, August 24th, 2009 - 43 comments
Categories: act, auckland supercity, maori party, Maori seats - Tags:

The Herald has an exclusive claiming that National will go with ACT and reject the Maori Party over the issue of Maori seats on the Auckland supercity council. The Herald doesn’t present any rock solid evidence to back up this claim but it’s pretty obvious that’s the way National will go.

Creating Maori seats in the face of ACT’s opposition could cost them votes going to ACT whereas not creating the seats is unlikely to cost them any votes.

It’s not going to cost them in their relationship with the Maori Party either. The Maori Party have pinned all their pride on showing they can work with the Right. Every dead-rat that’s come up they’ve swallowed and each time they do that it just increases their determination to hold the relationship together – otherwise all that dead rat eating will have been in vain. This is a rankest rat of all but expect Sharples and Turia to put on a brave face, make some attacks on Labour, and get back to their flag competition.

It has emerged that Key wanted to put the Maori seats in and even considered a technical workaround of introducing an amendment to the legislation after Hide had tabled it so Hide could claim he hadn’t created the seats. But Hide wasn’t satifised with these currency trader tricks. He played brinkmanship to the hilt. He created a cost for National in going against him. The Maori Party, on the other hand, can’t risk even the appearance of a major split with National. So, they will bow and take whatever they’re given. Hide wins and his anti-democratic project in Auckland continues.

[PS. Just as I write, Sharples is on National Radio saying ‘we’ve made some incredible gains, you don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater’. Well, Pita, I see the bathwater, but I don’t see any baby]

43 comments on “Herald calls win for Hide ”

  1. infused 1

    About time we stop this one rule for us, one for them bullshit. They are quite capable of getting their message across.

    No more special treatment.

    • bill brown 1.1

      Who’s us and who’s them?

      • infused 1.1.1

        I was in a rush, but don’t be dumb.

        • Pascal's bookie 1.1.1.1

          So do you want to renegotiate the treaty, or just set fire to it?

          (And yes, I know the Treaty doesn”t mention seats, but the seats are a partial fulfillment of things that are promised in the treaty. If you want to get rid of the seats, you need to fulfill those promises in some other way.)

          • infused 1.1.1.1.1

            The seats wont do anything. Maori should be elected like everyone else.

            You should also know the treaty is in no way legally binding to anything.

  2. Tim Ellis 2

    Yawn. This diatribe from a person who supports the party that kept Winston Peters in his baubles. Talking about swallowing a dead rat, Eddie.

    • Tigger 2.1

      TE, argue the point or try posting somewhere your type of whining is appreciated.

    • snoozer 2.2

      Wow, so now we have to oppose Labour because Winston was just stood down, not fired?

      Do you oppose National because their leader lied about his tranzrail shares, the deputy leader is rorting the housing allowance, and various other members are under investigation or have resigned in mysterious circumstances?

      No? Well get off the high horse then.

  3. Eric C. 3

    Great move from a political perspective for that nice John Key and his mate Rodney.

    Wonder what Labour’s response will be?

    Sit quietly on the sidelines and pray the media see something to write about that doesn’t follow National’s spin?

    • Pascal's bookie 3.1

      It’ll be interesting to see how the Herald’s editorialists deal with it. On Saturday they reckoned Key should accept Hide’s resignation

  4. “The Maori Party have pinned all their pride on showing they can work with the Right.”

    Ummm don’t think so. You may think that but it’s not my reading of the maori party and where they believe their pride comes from.

    “The Maori Party, on the other hand, can’t risk even the appearance of a major split with National.”

    Don’t agree with that either. They can risk a split, when a split is needed to further move ahead the maori agenda.

    The maori party know that like labour, the nats will lower their principles, by appeasing the racists, to get more votes. So what – the maori party are working to a different agenda and they will be judged like them all, at the next election.

    Be interesting to see the upsurge in party votes for the maori party, at that time.

  5. To say that the Maori party will “bow and take whatever they’re given”
    seems odd considering they VOTED AGAINST THE SUPERCITY LEGISLATION and will probably vote against one which does not include maori seats.

    You can’t blame them for wanting to get something, atleast, achieved under the current government.

    Would you rather ACT and the Maori Party with confidence and supply agreements with National, or just ACT?

    • snoozer 5.1

      I for one would rather the Maroi Party was staying true to its principles and not voting supply and confidence for a government that’s working against the interests of Maori and working people in general.

      The Maori Party should stand up and say ‘we won’t support a government that works against our people’s interests’. It’s not sufficent to vote against individual bills but vote for the Budget and for the Government in confidence votes.

      • Tigger 5.1.1

        Agreed snoozer, they’re not just working within the system and trying to change it – they’re actually creating the system itself (by keeping the government in power).

    • Tim Ellis 5.2

      Good point, Mr Barber.

      The Maori Party apparently support mana whenua seats, which the royal commission advocated but the Labour Party opposes. If the Labour Party had formed a governing arrangement with the Maori Party (which seems unlikely to happen in the near future, because Labour seem determined to attack the Maori Party at every turn) then Labour wouldn’t have been able to deliver what the Maori Party want either.

      By Eddie’s standard, the Maori Party should spit the dummy every time they don’t get what he thinks they want. Seems to me not a very good strategy to keep a long term governing arrangement going. Then again Mr Key seems to be more concerned about building a government based on respect and trust than the dishonesty that was at the heart of the Labour-NZ First relationship.

      • Bright Red 5.2.1

        The Maori party were willing to comprimise on just elected Maori seats, which Labour says it supports.

        At some point, you’ve got to say bowing down isn’t worth it. The Maori Party is giving the National Government legitimacy, the appearence of broad support and crucial votes – what is it getting in return?

        captcha: none

        • Tim Ellis 5.2.1.1

          By the same token BR the Labour Party gave Mr Peters legitimacy by defending him to the bitter end.

          The National Party gets its legitimacy actually by receiving the largest number of votes at the election and being in a position to form a government.

          • Bright Red 5.2.1.1.1

            “The National Party gets its legitimacy actually by receiving the largest number of votes at the election and being in a position to form a government.”

            No argument there, but the Maori Party shouldn’t add to that legitimacy at the cost of its principles.

            You’ve already had your smackdown on Winston for today. Maybe you should just get over it because no-one’s buying the spin.

      • r0b 5.2.2

        The Maori Party apparently support mana whenua seats, which the royal commission advocated but the Labour Party opposes.

        Got a source for that there claim Tim? Because it looks like another of your apparently endless lies.

        Mr Goff is scathing of the Government’s handling of the Super City and says the select committee process is a belated chance for Aucklanders to have a say. “Labour has always supported the idea of a unitary council, but supports stronger, more effective second-tier representation and all councillors elected by wards,” he said. “It also supports Maori seats.”

        • Tim Ellis 5.2.2.1

          Oh yes I’m quite used to you calling me an endless liar and then going off into some obscure linguistic avenue where you split hairs r0b. Like the time you called me a liar when I suggested that UMR might have had questions proposed from the Labour Party in Eddie’s post about Len Brown’s mayoral chances, only to find a couple of weeks later Mr Twyford admitting that Labour had proposed super city questions to UMR.

          On this point however, r0b, Labour does not support mana whenua seats. They support elected seats with Maori consituencies, but not of the mana whenua kind proposed by the royal commission. I suggest you read Labour’s stated policy on this, if you can find it. I know Labour has been quite confused about what they believe on the super city issue at various times, but they certainly don’t support now iwi-appointed seats as advocated by the royal commission.

          • r0b 5.2.2.1.1

            some obscure linguistic avenue where you split hairs r0b.

            Your standard whine whenever you are called on your lies Tim.

            Like the time you called me a liar when I suggested that UMR might have had questions proposed from the Labour Party

            You mean this one where you are calling it an “internal labour party poll”? Pants on fire Tim!

            On this point however, r0b, Labour does not support mana whenua seats. They support elected seats with Maori consituencies, but not of the mana whenua kind proposed by the royal commission.

            Speaking of splitting hairs Tim, you are still wrong. You said that Labour opposes such seats. Source please?

            I suggest you read Labour’s stated policy on this, if you can find it.

            Sure, here it is (gee that was hard):

            Labour seeks to guarantee Maori seats on Super City

            Labour will today move an amendment to the Bill setting up the new Super City which guarantees Maori seats on the proposed Auckland Council, says Labour’s Maori Affairs spokesman Parekura Horomia. “Labour believes the Government should have adopted the Royal Commission’s proposals to include Maori seats on the council, but it hasn’t.

            “Just how that is reflected and how potential mana whenua seats might complement elected Maori seats is an issue which the select committee will hear submissions on and we will pay attention to this.

            Now just how do you twist this in your mind to the claim that Labour opposes mana whenua seats Tim? Do you have a source, or was it just an outright lie?

      • Pascal's bookie 5.2.3

        Then again Mr Key seems to be more concerned about building a government based on respect for Rodney 1%, and fuck everyone else”

        Fixed.

        Timmeh, care to talk about this years news mate?

    • Craig Glen Eden 5.3

      James I expect the Maori Party to better for Maori than Labour did for them. Because thats the mantra they went about spouting off, Labour bad our new Maori brand good, Labour has never done any thing for us , seabed and foreshore Bla Bla Bloody bla.

      So we should see less Maori unemployment, better Health care, increased achievement levels in education less Maori on benefits because the bad Labour Party have trapped Maori on benefits you know. Any thing less is Bullshit no excuses, (because Labour was not allowed any) lets see them deliver.

      Guess what James I bet they don’t!

  6. The Maori party is wedged between a rock and a proverbial hard place.

    I just relooked at the photos of the Hikoi protest. I was fortunate to be there on the day. There was intense passion and concern amongst Maori about the issue and this has not been abated.

    Turia and Sharples will ignore this at their peril. They are opening themselves to the complaint that they are just compliant poodles, there for the limos but not doing anything for Maori aspirations.

    Interesing that these leaks are happening. Helen would not have tolerated it.

  7. Jcw 7

    I don’t understand why maori seats should be legislated, surely maori candidaes are capable of being elected? And surely maori councillors would be taken more seriously and have more impact if voted in by the constituency rather than if they got in by the word of law. I for ne wouldn’t be against voting in a maori councillor, provided they are good quality, and there are enough maori in auckland to be able to vote in maori representatives – at the very least for at large seats.

  8. The Voice of Reason 8

    If this turns out as predicted, it will be a great day for the Maori Party, but a shocker for their MP’s. Tariana and the other bludgers need to be reminded that they are there for their constituents, not their mortgage brokers.

    If this is the wake up call to stop pandering to Mr Floppy and to start looking for a way to represent tangat whenua without selling out, then it’s a small price to pay. My prediction? The next Labour led government will legislate for the seats and deliver for all Maori, rather than deliver for four Maori.

    • Tim Ellis 8.1

      You mean the same way that Labour’s maori MPs voted with the Labour Party whip to introduce the foreshore and seabed legislation, which led to the rise of the Maori Party in the first place?

      Somehow I think the Maori Party are much more closely aligned to the interests of Maori voters than the Labour Party has ever been.

      • Zaphod Beeblebrox 8.1.1

        What was the Labour List vote in the Maori seats last election? Can’t remember off the top of my head, but it was pretty high.

      • ak 8.1.2

        Funny how actual Maori voters disagree, Tim. But keep up the fantasies, always good for a grin.

  9. Adolf Fiinkensein 9

    How tiresome it must be to be part of a mob of losers desperate to manufacture some issue, any issue, to reverse their decline in the polls.

    Wake up fellers. This ain’t going anywhere. Maori seats on Auckland City Council will be decided by Auckland rate payers, not some bunch of tossers from Wellington.

    This part Maori rate payer will vote “NO”

  10. J 10

    It’s the treaty of waitangi bro,…it’s a treaty and it means Maori can pretty much have all the assurances that they will not be the weaker partner, it was a deal.

  11. gobsmacked 11

    Audrey Young in the Herald today has nailed the real issue. Sadly, most of the media seem to have missed it.

    Key has been asked for months about why Aucklanders are not being consulted on the Super City. His response has been consistent: the select committe process is the consultation. Wait for the outcome.

    But now we know the select committee was a sham.

    And the Maori Party have been taken for fools.

    Here’s Hansard:

    4. TE URUROA FLAVELL (Māori Party—Waiariki) to the Attorney-General: Has he received any advice on whether constitutional rights and obligations of partnership under the Treaty of Waitangi apply between the Crown and the mana whenua who gifted land on which Auckland City is built; if so, what was that advice?

    Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General) : No, I have not received any such advice. However, I note that the principle of partnership was first identified explicitly in the Waitangi Tribunal’s Manukau reportin 1985, when the tribunal emphasised the obligation on both parties to act reasonably, honourably, and in good faith.

    Te Ururoa Flavell: How is the Government giving effect to those rights and responsibilities in the legislation to enable the new Auckland City governance arrangements?

    Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: The first thing that the Government has done is to support the establishment of a special select committee, which will consider the Auckland governance legislation. Everyone will have an opportunity to make submissions to it. There is also ongoing dialogue between the co-leaders of the Māori Party and the Government on this issue. The Prime Minister recently stated that nothing is off the table until the final legislation is drafted. This reflects the Government’s commitment to acting reasonably, honourably, and in good faith..

    (end)

    Key has not waited for the select committee. Its report is irrelevant. The submissions were a waste of time.

    There was no good faith.

  12. Adolf Fiinkensein 12

    Psssssssttttttttttttt ! ! !

    Wanna know a secret? Straight frm GHQ Gnats?

    Lord Mayor John Banks will conduct a non binding referendum of Auckland City rate payers on the matter of reserved Maori seats on Council. The referendum will be timed to play out about three months before the general election in 2011.

    You blokes can then go for your lives supporting your beloved Maori seats and watch yourselves overtaken in the only poll that matters by none other than The Greens.

    • wtl 12.1

      How is that going to work? The Auckland City Council is going to cease to exist in October 2010, unless you know something we don’t about the supercity implementation being delayed.

    • Rex Widerstrom 12.2

      “Non binding referendum” = pointless & expensive opinion poll.

      I’ve agreed with others before that the very concept of the “Supercity” ought to be subject of a binding referendum, and then, assuming it’s approved, the various questions of it’s make-up the subject of follow-up referenda.

      But the only thing more arrogant than a politician who won’t permit a referendum on an issue is one who permits one and then dismisses the outcome.

      Thing is, if Adolf is right and Banks holds a referendum, the majority votes for Maori seats but Banks then ignores it, I wonder if the referendum denialists that populate The Standard will give him a pass like they’re giving Key on the smacking referendum?

      Or will ignoring that one be outrageous because the intent behind it meets with their approval?

      • wtl 12.2.1

        Well, if the question is “Should reserved Maori seats, as part of good governance of the Auckland region, be part of the Auckland City Council?”…

        • felix 12.2.1.1

          “reserved Maori seats” is way too precise.

          How about “Should enhanced maori participation, as part of…”

          • Rex Widerstrom 12.2.1.1.1

            Ahhhh… so you’re saying, then, wtl and felix, that despite widespread publicity on the issue (which would increase exponentially if a referendum was held) that NZers would, in the main, be too dumb to know what it is they were voting for even if the drafters of the question were imprecise?

            Because I don’t think they would. Just as I don’t think 1.4 million people were that dumb last weekend. And I think their voices ought to be respected, regardless of whether or not I agree with them.

            Gawd knows, I currently live in a state that keeps voting no in referenda on daylight saving, late night shopping and anything else that risks acknowledging it’s no longer 1954. I’d like to stab most of them every time I realise I can’t buy something when I want to because they all think I should be home in bed by 7. Democracy can drive you to frustration, but that’s no justification for ignoring it.

            • wtl 12.2.1.1.1.1

              Its nothing to do with people being ‘dumb’ – when you ask a leading question, you influence the answer. Yes, even if the issue is well publicised, there will still be some effect of the question. Besides, do you really think they everyone will be informed enough about the issue to know, even with it being well publicised? What proportion of people in Auckland don’t keep up to date with the news? I suspect that it is a significant proportion. When faced with a question such as “Should enhanced maori participation, as part of good governance of the Auckland region, be part of the Auckland City Council?” (thanks felix!), people will be inclined to say yes.

            • Rex Widerstrom 12.2.1.1.1.2

              So what’s the alternative wtl? Deny people a voice? We give them a vote every three years… I doubt many of them could comprehensively outline the policies of the party for which they vote or what makes the person to whom they’re giving their electorate vote a better MP than the other candidates.

              Isn’t “the people of Auckland aren’t capable of assessing issues of this complexity” the very excuse being used by Hide and Key?

            • felix 12.2.1.1.1.3

              What the hell are you talking about, Rex?

              It was an example of a dishonest, leading, practically meaningless question. If anyone seriously asks a question like that about Auckland of course the resulting answers should be disregarded.

            • wtl 12.2.1.1.1.4

              Yes, my point wasn’t that referenda are useless, but that they need to be conducted properly to ensure meaningful answers. And to be honest, my initial comment which started all this off (about the question) was actually just a bit of a joke.

              I don’t agree that the Maori seats issue should be decided by a referendum put to the the general population, as the general population cannot be trusted to provide a fair result for a minority. But I would support the issue being put as a referendum to those on the Maori role.

              As for the whole supercity issue, I would say that a binding referendum must be be carried out before any changes are made to the governance of Auckland.

  13. the sprout 13

    “‘… you don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater’. Well, Pita, I see the bathwater, but I don’t see any baby”

    yeah that’s what i thought when i heard it. for any baby they’ve spawned, it’s so horribly mis-shapen the humane thing would be to let it pass over.

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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Chief of Army thanked for his service
    Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. “I would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders
    25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government commits nearly $3 million for period products in schools
    Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. “This is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women don’t ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech – Making it easier to build.
    Good morning, it’s great to be here.   First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning.  I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Government’s ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Pacific youth to shine from boost to Polyfest
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Government’s commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools Māori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. “The Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, I’m proud to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • 2024 Ngarimu VC and 28th (Māori) Battalion Memorial Scholarships announced
    ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to Breast Cancer Foundation – Insights Conference
    Before moving onto the substance of today’s address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Kiwi research soars to International Space Station
    New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Planning Institute
    Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and I’m sorry I can’t be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Support for Northland emergency response centre
    The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the Whangārei site where the facility will be constructed.  “Northland has faced a number ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Celebrating 20 years of Whakaata Māori
    New Zealanders have enjoyed a broader range of voices telling the story of Aotearoa thanks to the creation of Whakaata Māori 20 years ago, says Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a celebration marking the national indigenous media organisation’s 20th anniversary at their studio in Auckland on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Some commercial fishery catch limits increased
    Commercial catch limits for some fisheries have been increased following a review showing stocks are healthy and abundant, Ocean and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The changes, along with some other catch limit changes and management settings, begin coming into effect from 1 April 2024. "Regular biannual reviews of fish ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

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