Comments on: How did Nats know parents’ addresses?

By: Greg's Blog - principal (le?) learning Â» how?

Greg's Blog - principal (le?) learning Â» how? — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:53:20 +0000

[...] The Standard blog: You’ll recall that last week National spent $200,000 of taxpayer dollars on a proganda drop [...]

By: lprent

lprent — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:20:45 +0000

Given any database with some basic information in it (name, address, IRD, etc) and matching against something like say the tax records (or electoral roll) that has occupation in it; I’d have very little difficulty in doing either selection exclusion.

I routinely do this with the electoral roll and other associated data for targeted canvassing in the electorates I volunteer for. However I know where all of that info is coming from. I’m very uncertain where the ministry of education could have gotten theirs from legitimately.

Of course they could have just compiled a list of people that they wanted excluded from a mailout as well. But that raises just about as many questions.

By: Lew

Lew — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:02:31 +0000

If someone could be excluded due to working for a union, someone could certainly be excluded for having the surname “Hooton”.

I’m not saying this is what happened — only that your single data point is only a single data point.

By: Matthew Hooton

Matthew Hooton — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:47:15 +0000

Yes, but a ministry database wouldn’t know that.

By: mickysavage

mickysavage — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:45:23 +0000

Right you are.

Fron the Education Act 1989

“343 Assigning national student numbers
(1) The Secretary may assign a national student number to any student whoâ€”
(a) is enrolled with an education provider; or
(b) has been granted an exemption under section 21 or section 22.
(2) On the date on which this Part comes into force, every national student number that is already assigned to a person is deemed to be a national student number assigned under this section to that person.

“344 Use of national student numbers

…
(2) The Secretary may authorise or require an authorised user to use national student numbers only for the purpose of, or for a specific purpose falling within, any 1 or more of the following:
(a) monitoring and ensuring student enrolment and attendance:
(b) ensuring education providers and students receive appropriate resourcing:
(c) statistical purposes:
(d) research purposes:
(e) ensuring that students’ educational records are accurately maintained.”

There may be an issue about if it use of the information generally or use of the number only but well worth further investigation.

By: Lew

Lew — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:37:58 +0000

Matthew, you also don’t need a pamphlet to be converted to the cause.

By: Matthew Hooton

Matthew Hooton — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:35:14 +0000

I have a child at school but I don’t get the letter either. I don’t work for a union.

By: Roflcopter

Roflcopter — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:28:35 +0000

Well duh!

Just get the Ministry to send it on behalf of, and have all their costs covered. The party doesn’t need to even see the addresses.

It’s not rocket science, but it makes a great story, right?

By: tracey

tracey — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:45:42 +0000

The next question then is did anyone with no children get one? profiling or no profiling, people without children also pay taxes which go into children’s health and education. We do have a right to be informed and to have a say. Otherwise, if we follow the logic of the nats on this mailout, only dog owners and people who have been mauled by dogs will be educated on proposed dog legislation and so on…

By: randal

randal — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:50:32 +0000

new words from the tory backbench.
multivlication.
vulnable.
dimockasee.

By: randal

randal — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:47:27 +0000

must have come from from the ministry.
I listened to the speeches in the house last night and most of the tories couldnt even read their own speeches properly so looking through data would be impossible for them.

By: Julie Fairey

Julie Fairey — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:12:32 +0000

I just asked my colleague who has a primary aged child (mine is only 2) and he hasn’t received the pamphlet. Profiling probably would have excluded their family as he works for a union.

By: lukas

lukas — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:49:00 +0000

zorr, this will also effect your children in a couple of years… would you have preferred to not get it and be left in the dark as to what is going on?

By: Richard

Richard — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:43:34 +0000

The National party is not covered by the OIA…

Yes, that was why I said that it wouldn’t be possible to OIA the National Party.

If the source really is the Education Ministry, however, then I think that should be discoverable by an OIA. But you would probably effectively need to know the answer as to who provided the database beforehand (so that you can word your OIA request appropriately).

You are right that if there is evidence to be discovered that the OIA request would be obstructed. But that is interesting in and of itself.

By: Zorr

Zorr — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:35:52 +0000

Same as ieuan here Trev. 2 young boys but neither of them even preschool age yet but we still got the mailer.