How to: Pick an Excuse for Not doing Anything About Poverty

Written By: - Date published: 11:08 am, December 12th, 2013 - 97 comments
Categories: benefits, capitalism, class war, cost of living, Economy, economy, employment, poverty, socialism, tax, uncategorized, welfare - Tags:

Right wing, excuses reasons, for not doing anything about children in poverty.

1. “It costs too much”.
2. “Taxation is theft”.
3. “They are not as poor as they are in (Insert a third world Nation with less than half our GDP, and a 10th of our resources per capita)”.
4. “The statistics are wrong”.
5. “It is not as many as they claim”.
6. “You can’t get rid of poverty by giving people money”.
7. “I was in a poor persons house and they had “Chocolate biscuits, a colour TV, or, horrors, a bottle of beer”!!
8. “It’s all those solo mothers on the DPB breeding for a living”.
9. “I know a person who…………..”
10. “It is a choice they make”.
11. “It is people who make poor choices”.
12. “They shouldn’t have had kids they couldn’t afford”.
13. “Why should “I” pay for other peoples kids”.
14. “The centre will never vote for it”.
15. “We will do something if finances allow”.
16. “Giving them money made them poor”.
17. “Those socialists made them poor by giving them benefits”.
18. “I pay enough taxes”.
19. “There are no poor in New Zealand”.
20. “Not now, later!”

97 comments on “How to: Pick an Excuse for Not doing Anything About Poverty ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. scotty 1
    12 December 2013 at 11:35 am

    21. Not educated.

    Cos if everyone had a degree , the wages for lowly paid service jobs would increase overnight.

    • phillip ure 1.1
      12 December 2013 at 1:57 pm

      um..!.just as a bit of an historical-tidy-up..(just so we can get things/nationals’-inaction into some kind of perspective/context..)

      ..how about a listing of the excuses from labour/those who were there…

      ..for those nine long years of the clark govt/labour doing nothing about poverty..?

      ..that could be both useful and enlightening..

      ..eh..?

      ..and while we are there..cd anyone give us the date that labour renounced/denounced that poverty-neglect/inaction..?

      ..what’s that i hear you say..?..they haven’t yet..?

      ..they are..to date..a mea culpa-free zone..?

      ..that’s a bit of a worry..eh..?

      ..phillip ure..

      • phillip ure 1.1.1
        13 December 2013 at 8:46 am

        and of course..that decade of labours’/clarks’ inaction/stigmatising of the poorest..

        ..could not have prepared the ground better – for what then bennett wrought..

        ..eh..?

        ..phillip ure..

    • Francis 1.2
      14 December 2013 at 12:21 pm

      Yep. Instead of having a minimum wage job, they’d have a minimum wage job and a huge student debt.

  2. Paul 2
    12 December 2013 at 11:40 am

    22. The money will trickle down…

  3. Colonial Viper 3
    12 December 2013 at 12:07 pm

    23. I was poor too once, but after a bit of honest hard work I’m now a multi-millionaire.

  4. Rogue Trooper 4
    12 December 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Midday Report:
    Reserve Bank- Interest rates highly likely to rise in March, or thereabouts. Will continue to rise in the order of 2% over the next two years; rising consumer spending and construction activity. “Inflation pressures building” -Wheeler
    Here’s some ‘excuses’-
    Grocery price rises this year
    -Milk 67%
    -Butter 23%
    -Cheese 5%
    -Chicken 8%
    -Beef / Lamb around 4% (was distracted by the implications).

    The squeeze is tightening it’s grip, as those cups are applied to more udders.

    PS, encouraging quote heading your blog KJT

    • KJT 4.1
      12 December 2013 at 12:31 pm

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderata

      I try to live up to it. Not always as successfully as I would like!

      I also like the seafaring version of Kipling.
      “If you can keep your head, when all about you are losing theirs” You don’t know what the fuck is going on!

      • Rogue Trooper 4.1.1
        12 December 2013 at 12:39 pm

        helpful to have some guidance when all at sea. Minimises the frequency of ‘rants’, although, they relieve the boiler pressure . 😀 : aye aye , it’s a sailor’s life to be.

  5. Balanced View 5
    12 December 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Until initiatives are put in place to restrict welfare abuse, the wider public will forever be reluctant to support the poor, especially when they are struggling themselves.
    I haven’t met anyone that isn’t prepared to help someone that is willing to help themselves, and this would include the right wingers you refer to in your unhelpful article.

    • KJT 5.1
      12 December 2013 at 1:25 pm

      Yeah. Right!

    • KJT 5.2
      12 December 2013 at 1:32 pm

      Welfare abuse.
      Less than 0.6%. And most of it was by WINZ staff, or someone who forgot to tell them a minor detail. A few mill a year.

      Tax dodging. By those who refuse to pay their fair share. No one knows, but definitely in the billions.

      No 24. ” There are thousands dishonestly ripping off the welfare system”.

      Complaining about a person who, mostly mistakenly, gets a few hundred more in welfare than their measly entitlements, often because of a WINZ staff mistake, compared to someone who rips us off for hundred of thousands by fudging their tax accounts.

      • phillip ure 5.2.1
        12 December 2013 at 1:47 pm

        welfare rip=offs = $23 million per yr..

        ..tax-rip-offs by corporates/elites/1% = $2.5 billion per yr..

        (there is yr ending/solving-poverty-solution right there..)

        ..phillip ure..

        • Balanced View 5.2.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 1:50 pm

          This is a separate argument. And one I agree with.
          But this should not be aligned at all to the poverty debate.

          • McFlock 5.2.1.1.1
            12 December 2013 at 2:40 pm

            It’s relevant in that it illustrates how some people advocate the complete elimination of an already small rate of welfare offending, yet ignore a substantially larger rate of white-collar offending.

            But I guess that just as they believe in the “deserving poor”, they also believe in the “deserving criminal”.

          • Frank Macskasy 5.2.1.1.2
            13 December 2013 at 12:05 pm

            “But this should not be aligned at all to the poverty debate.”

            Rubbish.

            It is INTRINSIC to the poverty “debate”. Though why anyone would be debating poverty rather than addressing it escapes me.

            It is intrinsic because the above are excuses employed by those with rightwing inclinations to choose not to address this growing problem.

            It is intrinsic because these are all cliches which give those who parrot them an excuse to do precisely nothing.

            Your ‘beef’, BV is that KJT has called you and others like you on these cliched excuses and you can’t handle it.

      • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5.2.2
        12 December 2013 at 1:59 pm

        No 25. The wealthy in society must be given freedom to make money on their money and do whatever they want because we depend on them for our wellbeing

        …we depend on them because they have so much money because we give them the freedom to increase their wealth regardless of what effect that has on the rest of us.

    • Arfamo 5.3
      12 December 2013 at 1:33 pm

      The problem is how do you define welfare abuse?

      Giving tax breaks to corporates, bailing out failed finance companies with taxpayer money, giving tax cuts to the wealthy, lowering real incomes in the face of cost increases as well as reducing job protections and conditions and effectively increasing taxes (with hidden levies and gst increases) on those who have the lowest incomes is basically abusing their welfare.

      • Rogue Trooper 5.3.1
        12 December 2013 at 1:35 pm

        Key, Joyce and Bennett would say “it’s all semantics”.

        • Arfamo 5.3.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 1:37 pm

          So – fine, I’m anti-semantic, and I don’t mind admitting it. 🙂

          • Rogue Trooper 5.3.1.1.1
            12 December 2013 at 1:38 pm

            to the point. I experience a regular struggle to not loathe, despise and critique Tories, Conservatives and Libertarians, yet I overcome it. 😀

            • Arfamo 5.3.1.1.1.1
              12 December 2013 at 1:53 pm

              Fair enough. Can I interest you in a tumbril or a guillotine? Just as a possible investment for the future. Get in now while they’re cheap. You can maybe onsell them or rent them out to disgruntled mobs at some point in the maybe not too distant future?

              • Rogue Trooper …
                12 December 2013 at 2:56 pm

                ‘tumbrel’; reluctantly, even Ellul had to reconcile his Christianity with revolutionary violence. Could need troopers to lead the horses. 😉

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5.4
      12 December 2013 at 1:48 pm

      @ Balanced View
      Until people realise the interconnected nature of our society where one person’s freedom can affect another’s freedom then we will continue to have people who don’t understand that there is a large chunk of people in this country who are not placed in a good position to create a ‘good life’ for themselves due to our enabling of licentious behaviour for a few in our society.

      Realising the interconnected nature of our circumstances leads to the realisation that helping people in poor circumstances lifts the quality of life of most people in society (apart from those who are creaming it as things are now)

      Whereas when ‘competition’ and ‘dog eat dog’ are the standard messages we receive and live by then there will continue to be only a few ‘dogs’ at the top and increasing numbers of people who are at the bottom of the heap ‘competing’ with one another and suffering for no reason other than the misguided and alienating attitudes we are fed and believe by those who are ‘winning’ as things stand and that are creating this state of inequity – because they benefit from it.

      So ‘Balanced View’, why do you mention welfare abuse and not have tax evasion foremost in your mind – because if everyone paid their fair share then there would be more money flowing to create jobs and less being hidden away doing jackshit apart from raising prices of everything via the futures market and there would not be a problem with joblessness nor welfare ‘costs’.

      • Balanced View 5.4.1
        12 December 2013 at 8:31 pm

        I’m pointing out WHY a lot of people are reluctant to provide additional welfare, after all, that’s fundamentally what this article is about.
        I wasn’t discussing HOW to pay for it, or HOW to reduce poverty.

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5.4.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 10:40 pm

          Yes Balanced View I did get what you were saying, and I am asking why you [and others] don’t focus on things that would actually serve people.

          • Balanced View 5.4.1.1.1
            12 December 2013 at 11:34 pm

            Why the assumption that I don’t?
            In fact that is why I commented on this. Articles like this are inflammatory and tend to polarise opinions on both sides of the argument, making the solutions harder to achieve.

            • Colonial Viper 5.4.1.1.1.1
              12 December 2013 at 11:47 pm

              Articles like this are inflammatory and tend to polarise opinions on both sides of the argument

              Fuck off, there is no “other side of the argument” relating to ensuring economic justice for all NZers.

              You either hold that as a value, or you don’t. And you don’t.

              • Balanced View …
                12 December 2013 at 11:57 pm

                Clearly there is an opposing view, or you wouldn’t be so angry all of the time 🙂
                If there’s no willingness to understand each other’s view in a sensible and pragmatic way, the gap between views will never be bridged.

                • McFlock …
                  13 December 2013 at 12:02 am

                  we understand your view.

                  You oppose the microscopic amount of welfare fraud, but seem to ignore tax evasion.

                  • Balanced View …
                    13 December 2013 at 12:08 am

                    Obviously you don’t understand my view, I don’t ignore tax evasion, executive salaries, monopolistic industries or any other facet of inequality.

                    • McFlock …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:16 am

                      You don’t seem to oppose them, though, especially compared to your comments on welfare fraud.

                    • Balanced View …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:24 am

                      Actually I don’t think I mentioned welfare fraud.
                      But anyway, Your mistake is thinking that a comment about wishing that some of the poor would make better decisions is somehow endorsing corporate tax avoidance. That is incorrect.

                    • McFlock …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:30 am

                      sorry, welfare “abuse”.

                      Fucking obnoxious, people getting their full legislated entitlements.

                      I never said you “endorse” tax evasion (not “avoidance, which is also shit, “evasion”). But you’re always so quick to raise the matter of welfare “abuse”/fraud, displaying a keenness that you don’t similarly show when white collar fraud comes up.

                      Anyway, I’m off to bed too.

                    • Balanced View …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:34 am

                      Ahh we’ll i do that as a lone voice on right leaning blogs like whale oil. No need to do it here, 40 others would beat me to it.
                      Goodnight Flocker.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  13 December 2013 at 12:38 am

                  If there’s no willingness to understand each other’s view in a sensible and pragmatic way, the gap between views will never be bridged.

                  And thus it shall be. So?

                  • Balanced View …
                    13 December 2013 at 12:55 am

                    And that CV, in my opinion is your problem. You’d rather have a “hung jury” in holding out for what you see is right, than compromise a little in order to make progress on the issue.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      13 December 2013 at 1:27 am

                      Huh? Are you an MP with a casting vote in Parliament?

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) …
                      13 December 2013 at 11:49 am

                      @ Balanced View
                      Oh well…I missed that conversation, however if you are still around Balanced View – I made no assumption re your not focussing on things that would actually serve people – you chose to write a comment to point out an issue regarding welfare abuse, however made no mention of the much more costly phenomenon of tax abuse.

                      To be frank I agree that what you wrote is probably how some people think and I was suggesting that instead of buying into this way of thinking it might be more helpful to look at what can be done to really improve things. Informing those who hold such views on what is really going on would be a good start.

                      It really isn’t reasonable at all to say ‘Until initiatives are put in place to restrict welfare abuse’

                      Where have you been in the last year [even]??

                      There are plenty of initiatives in place to restrict welfare abuse and if people are still thinking there aren’t or want more then it really seems like some type of obsessive-compulsive disorder going on in the way such people are thinking.

                      Here is an initiative that has been in place for decades. If you rip off the system for $20 such as work a few hours and not let Winz know and are caught you are expected to pay back the entire benefit you’ve received – not solely the $20. This is why the cited dollar ‘amounts’ of benefit fraud are so high. People aren’t physically ripping off the system as much as is stated- what is stated is the amount they have to pay back. This in itself is a huge deterrent from not declaring what one has earned.

                      When the amounts of dollars in tax fraud is cited I suspect [unclear – but think this is so] that the amounts cited – 1-6 Billion- is the amount being ripped off – unlike benefit fraud where the amounts are deceptively inflated – so the real costs to this country re tax fraud is even greater than that of welfare fraud than has recently come to light.

                      It was interesting to hear on parliament channel last week a Labour member (Andrew Little if I recall correctly – yet might be wrong!) explaining that benefit fraud has commonly been targeted because it is easier to discover – tax fraud is trickier to uncover. I emphasise the point that it is not because welfare fraud is more damaging or a greater problem that there has been a focus on it – simply [according to that speaker] that it is easier to uncover and ‘score points’ with. ‘Look we are doing something’.

                      Sadly this has the effect of making the general population believe that there is a huge problem with welfare recipients and creating very little awareness on how vast the problem is with tax abuse. A very false fixation has developed.

                      You and others can carry on explaining why welfare abuse is worth commenting on whenever poverty comes up -yet I hope what I write goes some way to helping you understand such explanations provide very little progress when poverty is being discussed or on what is causing the most damage to general wealth in this country. You would be better speaking with those of your friends who hold such views and informing them on how small the numbers really are.

                      [lprent: He picked up a ban in the post about Jason Ede and Cameron Slater.

                      He was trying the plausible deniability technique (“I didn’t actually state what it looked like”) whilst trying to tell us how to run our site – which is on the list of self-martyrdom offences.

                      Plausible deniability may be a good trick in political forums and debating. But it is bloody lethal when I look at it. I also look at why they feel the need to use it and I usually come up with the answer of “troll”. It is actually safer to say what you think here than it is to try to insinuate it.

                      You’ll notice that Balanced View always tries to insinuate a viewpoint than simply stating his own views? ]

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      13 December 2013 at 11:42 pm

                      guess your “Balanced View” balanced you off the pendulum.

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) …
                      13 December 2013 at 11:42 pm

                      Thanks for the explanation lprent – I had been reading that thread, however must have missed the banning of Balanced View.

                      Rogue Trooper LOL!

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      13 December 2013 at 11:48 pm

                      I only returned to read your comment and acknowledge the thought that went into it. (now I’m getting tired, gardening in the hot sun ….)

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) …
                      14 December 2013 at 10:36 pm

                      Thanks Rogue Trooper 🙂

            • Arfamo 5.4.1.1.1.2
              12 December 2013 at 11:48 pm

              The problem is BV telling us some people are reluctant to provide more welfare for whatever reason is stating the obvious. So unless you have some solutions to propose what is the point of commenting? If you don’t have any practical suggestions for how to reduce poverty why bother.

              • Balanced View …
                12 December 2013 at 11:54 pm

                Did you read the article? Why bother? My point exactly.

                • Arfamo …
                  12 December 2013 at 11:58 pm

                  Yeah, I did. Before I replied to you. I wanted to see how many you ticked off.

                  I reckon yours are 1, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16 and 17.

                  • Balanced View …
                    13 December 2013 at 12:04 am

                    Excellent, then you’ll agree that the article by Karol was pointless.
                    Actually, I would in some part tick off all except 1,2,15,18,20

                    • Arfamo …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:07 am

                      Well, no, I think the article was on point. And you are the perfect illustration of the point. But you can’t see that. Do you see what I mean?

                    • McFlock …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:12 am

                      If you’re that predictable, then it seems some do understand your point of view.

                      Unfortunately, your point of view is a promontory overlooking a sea of despair and self-absorption. If you look to your left you’ll see a flower-laden path to a distant but sunny field where children play and lambs frolic to the sound of Beethoven’s Pastorale.

                  • McFlock …
                    13 December 2013 at 12:04 am

                    tory bingo 🙂

                    • Balanced View …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:12 am

                      Arfamo – so me pointing out reasons why some people are reluctant to help children in poverty is pointless, but an article pointing out reasons why some people are reluctant to help children in poverty was on point? Hmmmm

                    • Arfamo …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:14 am

                      Yes. Exactly. But I see that the significance of who these “some people” are escapes you, and it is late, very late. So I will bid you good night.

                    • Balanced View …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:31 am

                      Goodnight, thanks for the debate

            • Frank Macskasy 5.4.1.1.1.3
              13 December 2013 at 12:12 pm

              “In fact that is why I commented on this. Articles like this are inflammatory and tend to polarise opinions on both sides of the argument,…”

              Oh, BV, you have such a blinkered view. I’d say opinjons are already polarised – especially on right wing websites where commentary on welfare beneficiaries can only be described as hate speech.

              The polarisation is there for anyone with the eyes to see and the neuron-connectivity to understand.

              KJT has taken many of the comments used in polarised comments and shown them up for what they are; mindless cliches to be parrotted ad nauseum, in lieu of actual thinking.

              You can’t for one moment tell us that you’ve never seen those remarks made on websites like Trademe, Whaleoil, Kiwiblog, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc…

              What is really troubling is that you’re more interested in KJT’s insight rather than what this whole issue is about; growing poverty and income inequality in this country.

              Wait, let me guess “throwing money at the problem, yada yada yada…”

        • Colonial Viper 5.4.1.2
          12 December 2013 at 11:43 pm

          I’m pointing out WHY a lot of people are reluctant to provide additional welfare

          Social welfare for corporates and big investors is OK though, just so we are clear.

          • Balanced View 5.4.1.2.1
            12 December 2013 at 11:55 pm

            Off topic here CV. Another issue entirely.

            • Colonial Viper 5.4.1.2.1.1
              13 December 2013 at 12:23 am

              Rubbish. The topic is social welfare. You begrudge a beneficiary getting an additional thirty dollars pw but suddenly have no comment when it comes to corporates getting millions in sweetheart deals, or big investors getting bailed out 100 cents on the dollar plus interest.

              • Balanced View …
                13 December 2013 at 12:27 am

                Wrong and wrong

                • Colonial Viper …
                  13 December 2013 at 12:32 am

                  You have a problem with a $200,000M GDP country spending a measley extra $300M pa on welfare to lift NZers and their children out of poverty?

                  What the fuck is your problemo?

                  • Balanced View …
                    13 December 2013 at 12:39 am

                    No, I don’t think I ever said I have a problem with the cost. I’d happily pay 100 times that if it was going to people in genuine need.
                    But I do have a problem with it going to people that continue to make decisions that restricts their own ability to move out of a vulnerable position. Fix/prevent that and I’ll support it all the way.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:56 am

                      Bull shit.

                      Anyways your support is neither requested nor required.

                    • infused …
                      13 December 2013 at 1:10 am

                      Nope, can’t have people accountable.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      13 December 2013 at 1:21 am

                      Fine. Provide 100,000 new decent paying full time jobs and make people fully accountable for performing in the roles, then.

                    • Frank Macskasy …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:23 pm

                      But I do have a problem with it going to people that continue to make decisions that restricts their own ability to move out of a vulnerable position.”

                      What is the percentage of those people you refer to?

                      If you can’t provide that data, then you position is untenable as it relies on prejudice, not reality.

                      The fact is that that sentiment of Un-deserving Poor vs Deserving Poor is one of the cliches used by those who have a resentment against the welfare system, and denigrate all recipients based on a stereotype rather than reality.

                      Let me frame it this way; if we had enough jobs (and jobs with decent hours and pay, not McJobs that keep people trapped in poverty) for everyone – how many Deserving Poor would be employed, leaving only Undeserving Poor left?

                      (I seriously doubt you can answer that question in any meaningful way that provides actual figures – but I thought it only fair to ask. Surprise me.)

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      13 December 2013 at 11:44 pm

                      so productive of excuses; Post’s objective achieved.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.4.2
        13 December 2013 at 6:34 am

        Balanced View is delusional: pays lip service to the Tory mantra of “poor choices” – a callous and utterly discredited meme that only a dupe or a liar would still trot out.

        Which is it BV: are you too fucking stupid to understand that “poor choices” are not the reason for poverty, or do you know that and lie about it like low-life trash? Where’s your personal responsibility for your mendacious drivel?

      • Lloyd 5.4.3
        13 December 2013 at 11:20 pm

        Actually even the people who are creaming the top of the economy may well be better off in the long run if they give a little of the cream to the poorest in the economy. This can be by taxes or by benevolence.
        Social welfare prevents social instability. You can’t enjoy your excessive profits if a revolution occurs triggered by gross inequities.
        Even before such massive social upheavals inequities drive crime and even the super-rich are affected.
        Poverty is a reservoir for all those third world diseases we hear New Zealand shouldn’t have. The thing about infectious diseases is that they are infectious. Again even the mega-rich are more likely to get the diseases of poverty if they are rife in the poorest classes.
        When an economy is booming the richest get richer, as does everybody else. The best way to get an economy humming is to make sure the poorest in society have enough money to spend on all their basic needs, as the poor have to spend the money straight away, which gets the economy spinning.

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5.4.3.1
          13 December 2013 at 11:38 pm

          I thoroughly agree with you Lloyd and find it odd that the wealthiest ( who are the ones benefiting the most from this system) are trashing the system by their insistence on not sharing and having it all!

  6. Balanced View 6
    12 December 2013 at 1:35 pm

    I didn’t say dishonestly ripping off the system. It’s about taking actions to improve your position, or to reduce your dependence on others. Your stats don’t include that.

    • Rogue Trooper 6.1
      12 December 2013 at 1:37 pm

      for a start, you equate poor with welfare recipient…, and that’s just for starters.

      • Balanced View 6.1.1
        12 December 2013 at 1:48 pm

        Not necessarily, but including welfare yes.

        • Rogue Trooper 6.1.1.1
          12 December 2013 at 1:51 pm

          Balanced View, or bay view? Furthermore, concerning “improving their position”, we live a comparatively unforgiving and risk-averse ‘market’ environment, wherein folk face many external barriers to “improvement” beyond their own efforts. Can be very difficult for people with episodes of “going off the tracks” in their history to re-enter the employment market, regardless of how extensive their CV, qualifications, experience and obvious talent.

          • Balanced View 6.1.1.1.1
            12 December 2013 at 8:38 pm

            And I’m sympathetic to these people, and would have no problem in supporting them.
            However, I am less sympathetic to people that are struggling that choose to spend unwisely, or decide to have children etc.
            A lot of people like myself are concerned that increasing welfare support (however funded) encourages dependence and a sense of entitlement. I don’t believe that this is healthy for society.

            • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1.1
              12 December 2013 at 11:48 pm

              You’re not their Mum, but out of their lives.

              A lot of people like myself are concerned that increasing welfare support (however funded) encourages dependence and a sense of entitlement.

              Then ensure that there are enough decent paying full time jobs to go around, instead of soap box moralising with your croc tears like a dick head.

              • Balanced View …
                13 December 2013 at 12:18 am

                So you don’t believe that people should be allowed to express opinions on how others choose to spend their (or others) money?

                • Colonial Viper …
                  13 December 2013 at 12:20 am

                  What, you still want to be every poor person’s Mummy?

                  • McFlock …
                    13 December 2013 at 12:22 am

                    well, maybe their Big Brother.

                  • Balanced View …
                    13 December 2013 at 12:30 am

                    Not really, but did want to point out the hypocrisy of allowing the poor to make unhelpful decisions for society, but decrying corporates when they do the same

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:35 am

                      but did want to point out the hypocrisy of allowing the poor to make unhelpful decisions for society,

                      So you decide to wail on the most powerless, under-represented, financially weak and victimised sections of NZ communities for the “unhelpful decisions” they make on behalf of our whole society?

                      What the hell are you smoking?

                    • Balanced View …
                      13 December 2013 at 12:50 am

                      We’ll your assumption that I ignore the contribution the wealthy have to this issue is incorrect.
                      And two wrongs don’t make a right. So your position of ignoring the issue I’ve raised is really no different than someone like Cameron Slater ignoring yours.

            • Frank Macskasy 6.1.1.1.1.2
              13 December 2013 at 12:40 pm

              However, I am less sympathetic to people that are struggling that choose to spend unwisely, or decide to have children etc.

              BV, are you aware that the numbers on DPB are dropping, not increasing?

              And what does a worker with three kids do when the Global Financial Crisis made them redundant? Slit his children’s throats so that opponants of welfare can sleep easy knowing that their aren’t more families with kids going onto a benefit?

              So how does a worker look into the future to see if they’ll have a job, before deciding to have a family? How does one predict something like that?

              And why should workers with children who are made redundant, and happen to have children, be blamed for shenanigans on Wall Street and City of London? That’s 95,000 people here in NZ you’re trying to blame for events out of their control.

        • Rogue Trooper 6.1.1.2
          12 December 2013 at 2:05 pm

          Personally, I’d love to be offered part-time employment to “improve my position” (I possess no money from Friday till the following ‘pay-day’), yet despite how wonderful the mainstream believe John Kirwan to be, experiences of mental-unwellness still attract more stigma than merely being on a benefit.

    • BM 6.2
      12 December 2013 at 1:40 pm

      This.

      People being lazy useless pricks really chaffs peoples balls.

      • Arfamo 6.2.1
        12 December 2013 at 1:44 pm

        Not enough. Key’s still the PM.

      • KJT 6.2.2
        12 December 2013 at 1:45 pm

        Yes it does mine. Especially when they are in Parliament getting 300k a year.

        Or a Manager who just got a bonus after he lost the company owners 34 million and counting.

        Someone who is out of work because said Managers and politicians have ensured there are NF Jobs. Not so much!

      • Rogue Trooper 6.2.3
        12 December 2013 at 1:47 pm

        and why’s that? Are they not happy in themselves such that they reference themselves to others.
        Of course, a literate chappie such as yourself would be aware of The Fundamental Attribution Error , correspondence bias-attribution effect; ” One of the root principles of social psychology” and regularly assess your own ramblings through such a filter?, or maybe not it appears.

      • Frank Macskasy 6.2.4
        13 December 2013 at 12:45 pm

        People being lazy useless pricks really chaffs peoples balls.

        Posted by BM at 1.40pm. Shouldn’t you be at work, mate?

  7. Ake ake ake 7
    12 December 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Sharp title.

    As an aside, should there be a post about –

    “How to: Pick an Excuse for Not Prosecuting a Company where 29 Lives Have Been Lost”

    • KJT 7.1
      12 December 2013 at 1:52 pm

      I don’t think it is the company that should be in the gun so much as the regulators and politicians who allowed it.

      A large fine/compensation is appropriate for the company management, unless negligence is proven.

      Those with the real power should get jail terms.

      • Arfamo 7.1.1
        12 December 2013 at 1:58 pm

        The problem I suspect is that the deficiencies in the regulatory departments are the result of the cost-cutting, corporate style way both national and labour administrations have governed their departments. No one could isolate which Ministers or Senior Executives were the most culpable in all probability.

        One of the things I remember most about the report into those departments is how the reviewers found that the DoL’s ordinary business plan risk assessments were mainly about managing the risks to their reputation, not the risks to workers.

  9. mike 9
    16 December 2013 at 9:58 pm

    there are no children in poverty just totally neglectful parents. Sort this out and the problem goes away

    No 27? (KJT)

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    32 mins ago

  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago

  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago

  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • NZ and the US: an ever closer partnership
    New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Joint US and NZ declaration
    April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • NZ and US to undertake further practical Pacific cooperation
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further New Zealand cooperation with the United States in the Pacific Islands region through $16.4 million in funding for initiatives in digital connectivity and oceans and fisheries research.   “New Zealand can achieve more in the Pacific if we work together more urgently and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Government redress for Te Korowai o Wainuiārua
    The Government is continuing the bipartisan effort to restore its relationship with iwi as the Te Korowai o Wainuiārua Claims Settlement Bill passed its first reading in Parliament today, says Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith. “Historical grievances of Te Korowai o Wainuiārua relate to 19th century warfare, land purchased or taken ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Focus on outstanding minerals permit applications
    New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals is working to resolve almost 150 outstanding minerals permit applications by the end of the financial year, enabling valuable mining activity and signalling to the sector that New Zealand is open for business, Resources Minister Shane Jones says.  “While there are no set timeframes for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Applications open for NZ-Ireland Research Call
    The New Zealand and Irish governments have today announced that applications for the 2024 New Zealand-Ireland Joint Research Call on Agriculture and Climate Change are now open. This is the third research call in the three-year Joint Research Initiative pilot launched in 2022 by the Ministry for Primary Industries and Ireland’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Tenancy rules changes to improve rental market
    The coalition Government has today announced changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to encourage landlords back to the rental property market, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “The previous Government waged a war on landlords. Many landlords told us this caused them to exit the rental market altogether. It caused worse ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Boosting NZ’s trade and agricultural relationship with China
    Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay will visit China next week, to strengthen relationships, support Kiwi exporters and promote New Zealand businesses on the world stage. “China is one of New Zealand’s most significant trade and economic relationships and remains an important destination for New Zealand’s products, accounting for nearly 22 per cent of our good and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Freshwater farm plan systems to be improved
    The coalition Government intends to improve freshwater farm plans so that they are more cost-effective and practical for farmers, Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay have announced. “A fit-for-purpose freshwater farm plan system will enable farmers and growers to find the right solutions for their farm ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New Fast Track Projects advisory group named
    The coalition Government has today announced the expert advisory group who will provide independent recommendations to Ministers on projects to be included in the Fast Track Approvals Bill, say RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Regional Development Minister Shane Jones. “Our Fast Track Approval process will make it easier and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Pacific and Gaza focus of UN talks
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters says his official talks with the United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres in New York today focused on a shared commitment to partnering with the Pacific Islands region and a common concern about the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.    “Small states in the Pacific rely on collective ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government honours Taranaki Maunga deal
    The Government is honouring commitments made to Taranaki iwi with the Te Pire Whakatupua mƍ Te Kāhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its first reading Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “This Bill addresses the commitment the Crown made to the eight iwi of Taranaki to negotiate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Enhanced partnership to reduce agricultural emissions
    The Government and four further companies are together committing an additional $18 million towards AgriZeroNZ to boost New Zealand’s efforts to reduce agricultural emissions. Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says the strength of the New Zealand economy relies on us getting effective and affordable emission reduction solutions for New Zealand. “The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • 110km/h limit proposed for Kāpiti Expressway
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) will begin consultation this month on raising speed limits for the Kāpiti Expressway to 110km/h. “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and this proposal supports that outcome ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-04-18T01:33:07+00:00