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I, Vipertacus

Written By: - Date published: 10:28 pm, December 8th, 2012 - 190 comments
Categories: democracy under attack, democratic participation, The Standard - Tags:

Just wanted to say, seeing so many of the regulars change their name in honour of Colonial Viper is awesome. That tells me this is a real community. We discuss, argue, fight, and we respect. We’re not like the disgrace of an MP who has hounded CV into silence because she can’t handle honest criticism (and she’s not just a disgrace for that – she’s the first Labour MP in the history of her seat to let it go blue). Proud of you lot for standing beside our own against a bully.

190 comments on “I, Vipertacus”

  1. Visubversaviper 1

    I have been bullied before in the Labour Party, but always by the loosing side!

  2. the sprout, coronial piper 2

    Agreed Zet. Great to see the real left standing up against the rogernome retread hijackers currently running the Labour caucus.

    My friends were heavied in an attempt to intimidate me to stop posting during the leadership contest between Shearer and Cunliffe. Clearly someone in Wellington didn’t like me saying their pony was a rightwing puppet who couldn’t lead a party to save himself. Despite me only stating the obvious, it spurred a pretty awful and nasty intimidation campaign. They knew the people being threatened weren’t me, but they knew too that doing that to my friends would quieten me. How shitty North-Korean is that?

    So far it’s been CV, millsy, Peter Wilson, and me – that I know of – but who knows who else has been leaned on to shut up?

    Here are some more eloquent comments from other leftwing bloggers on the jaw dropping stupidity of some in the caucus (and the rest of the caucus that doesn’t stop it and thereby tacitly endorses it):

    http://ideologicallyimpure.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/i-thought-no-one-read-blogs-anyway/
    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/gagging-membership.html
    http://tumeke.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/labour-to-censor-mps-from-blogosphere.html
    http://www.recessmonkey.org.nz/2012/12/07/stopwhinging/

    This shit really has to stop or the whole caucus will be on the receiving end of a no-win escalation.

    • QoTViper 2.1

      Sprout posts links so I don’t have to look egotistical. Ta! :)

    • David Viperious H 2.2

      Well there you go now, you labourite traitorous witch, now you have enough Vipers, to keep you busy for a while. And you do know how dangerous a nest of Vipers is. Don’t you?

    • Craig Glen viper 2.3

      I was leaned on by Mr Robertson via one member who we are not allowed to talk about because he’s been naughty he voted for members to have more of a say in the Labour Party leadership.

  3. ColonialPete 3

    It’s a shocking state of affairs. Who the bloody hell does she think she is?

  4. Zorrviper 4

    Ah, so that is what it has been all about…

    CV shouldn’t be put through that at all

    Also, New Zealand, I’m going to miss you. I’m not going anywhere but another term under these NActoids will make you virtually unrecognizable to me and the Labour party are proving just how much they are striving to lose…

  5. Copperhead 5

    Right, time for me to start really writing and blogging myself. I welcome any politician and/or their flunkies to try to bully me, in fact, I almost look forward to it :) It would seem to me, that whoever is calling the shots in the Labour party is failing to get any synapses to fire. The entire caucus seems to open there mouths to change feet.

    Kia Kaha Tangata, they need us more than we need them, somehow some have forgotten this and will have to be reminded gently, loudly and as often as possible! Night folks.

  6. fender/same sentiment less eloquent Viper 6

    Yes it’s great the way people have rallied in support of CV and free speech for all. And some of the names thought up are brilliant, I like Vindow Viper especially.

    Hope this blows up in “her” face like “she” never expected, but seriously who in their right mind would attempt such a vile witch hunt? Can’t be anyone worth having in a NZ parliament, “she” should come clean and apologise or be sent packing.

    • Odds on that nice Mr Shearer doing anything about it?

      • QoTViper 6.1.1

        Hey now, it’s not like displaying a complete lack of interest in criticism or debate or understanding of how the internet works could damage the party. Not the way a trumped-up media-created logistically-impossible leadership challenge could. No discipline necessary.

      • fender/same sentiment less eloquent Viper 6.1.2

        About as likely as hearing him say something without the awkward stumbling of a toddler?

  7. Rhinoviper 7

    Well I, not being a Labour party member, have nothing to lose, so I enjoy a certain freedom to say that I am quite astonished – not at the audacity, the cruelty, the authoritarianism, but the sheer bloody stupidity of Curran, someone I already knew was not not quite the sharpest tool in the shed full of blunt instruments.

    How the Hell did she delude herself into thinking that this wouldn’t get out? This is the member delegated to deal with social media and, well, as Talleyrand said, her behaviour is not only wrong, it is is a mistake, and if she can’t comprehend how withering such a criticism might be, then…

    Sorry, I’m going to need surgery to remove my palm from my face. It’s almost as dumb as something Mallard might do (and I know that this is not the first time that she has shown herself to be an utter incompetent when it comes to understanding the web).

    The blogs could be Labour’s strongest tool, and yet they think this Internet fad thingy is just going to go away or can be “managed” somehow.

    Words fail me – really – how can anyone be so stubbornly thick ?

    What century do these fools inhabit?

    Anyway, since I’m sure that this metaphor will come up soon, King Canute did indeed stage a demonstration at the seaside in which he ordered the rising tide to retreat. However, the real king did so to demonstrate to his sycophantic courtiers that no-one, not even a king, could command tides.

    There’s a lesson in that, Curran, Mallard, Goff, King, Robertson and Shearer, and all your Mini-Me’s like Hipkins.

    • rosy viper 7.1

      but the sheer bloody stupidity of Curran

      But. Is it [only] Curran? Doesn’t this suggest a different Shearer groupie?

      she’s the first Labour MP in the history of her seat to let it go blue

      • Rhinoviper 7.1.1

        I agree absolutely.

        I merely pointed out that one more idiot was making one more fuck up.

        If there’s one thing, one slogan to deliver, it is this, and it should be repeated to the Labour caucus at every opportunity every time they screw up, every time they are asleep at the wheel – which means all the time:

        YOU CALL YOURSELVES OUR REPRESENTATIVES. YOU WORK FOR US – REMEMBER THAT. YOU ARE DELEGATED TO WORK FOR US AND WE DESERVE BETTER

    • Copperhead 7.2

      +1

      • Colon Viper 7.2.1

        +2

        • Copperhead 7.2.1.1

          +6 for your new name, very creative.

          • viperidae 7.2.1.1.1

            +2

            The viper formerly known as KJT.

            I found out how important anonymity was when POAL heavied my employer after I posted about the fuckup that is POAL, in another blog, under my real name.

            Also years ago when I was on a US oil rig opposing the removal of cabotage.
            I will always be grateful to the American toolpusher, who refused to sack me for my politics, even though he did not agree with them.

            Fortunately my current employer works well with unions, and had no problem with me, but that is not always the case.

            I no longer think that the current Labour caucus are different enough from National to be worth getting them in.

            It may be better to let National, and the current Labour caucus, fuckup, another three years so we actually get a Government that believes in democracy (even if it is only the travesty called representative democracy) and free speech. Let them fuckup so badly that we start to demand real democracy and real rights to protest without being heavied.

            At present I cannot see any other answer.

            Instead of attacking National’s reverting to authoritarian dictatorship, Labour are joining it!

            • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 7.2.1.1.1.1

              viperidae 7.2 1 1 1
              Leave the present political shower to fight over the leavings of our country and then we come in after and try and fix?? There has already been much lost that we hold dear in our democracy. Another three years, we just might be left with the bare boards of a warehouse empty of valuable society-building and maintaining policies and further we’ll find we’re under surveillance to ensure that we can’t get capacity to attempt a reinstall of the good stuff.

              There are numbers of political tools that can be used against the people’s best interests in a democracy. Look at the other democracies ‘real’ and sham. It’s hard to tell which is which sometimes. Democracy is just a vehicle for running the country and needs constant checking and oversight to keep it running right. We’ve found sadly, that you can’t take your eyes off the road without damage.

              We have had our system badly overhauled by neo lib contractors with no commitment to the clients, the stakeholders, the people, except themselves and their next payoff. What’s left of our precious must be fought for. They don’t make them like this any more.

    • David Viperious H 7.3

      “There’s a lesson in that, Curran, Mallard, Goff, King, Robertson and Shearer, and all your Mini-Me’s like Hipkins.”

      The Lesson is that they don’t get back in. And we get some people who actually know how to turn on and use a Computer. Who, if really pushed can actually string words together, to make things called sentences.

  8. Neoleftie Viper 8

    Clare is caucus sec and rep to council so she is the front person on this and spokesperson for ITC logic would place her at the front of this issue within the power clique.

    Context Clare has said some unusual statement over the last few years even posting on whale oil etc.

    I think this is a witch hunt to silence dissent within the ranks, limit freedom of speech and opinions and stop the power balancing shift to the members and is out to protect the great leader. After all the clique have a plan to win the election.

    First cunliffe, then left active bloggers, who next I wonder. Couldn’t they just take it to the Tories and do the job we demand of them. They represent us after all.

    Words have power after all, I wonder what deeds and real actions could do.

  9. R 9

    Honestly, if you pay membership fees or vote as part of that crew you’re condoning the bullying treatment they’ve handed out to your mate. Disgusting. Anyone who thinks they can effect change by remaining a member of that party is now tarred with the bullies’ brush.

    • bill-viper-browne 9.1

      Bullshit,

      I just renewed my membership as the only way, if we get a chance in Feb, of pushing these bastards out.

      • AkldASP 9.1.1

        I call bullshit on that as well – my membership is there for the same reasons it’s always been which has nothing to do with the bullying of bloggers, as b-v-b said Feb will give us the chance to remove the leadership and any soft right leaning policy shifts the party may be heading toward.

    • Tree Viper 9.2

      You cannot defend the indefensible (bullying internally or externally) and those causing the bullying need to ask themselves what do they expect to gain from silencing and bullying members just because they do not agree with the leadership of the Labour party?

  10. Neoleftie Hidden Viper 10

    The first viper to post at red alert

    I propose we show solidarity and swamp red alert with the innocent comments.
    Come on I cry rise rise up the Viper Army.

    • Viper73 10.1

      I would but I’ve been (cue irony) banned…

      • rosy viper 10.1.1

        haha that’s too funny!. Well done (but I’m guessing it didn’t take much to be banned from there).

        Sorry Neoleftie, I won’t post on RA. I hear the sysop is a bit dodgy on the privacy side of things… just a rumour ;-)

      • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 10.1.2

        They deleted the post.
        Very innocuous post agreeing with the post.
        Oh well at least they have my email address and full name now.
        Every work day I look out at Clare office….funniest thing ever is design of office, a small hatch slide window is access for the people, not open at all.
        A walled off outpost in a sea of desperate people that is South D where Clare when she is there can look out the glass walls and see…what I wonder…her reflection.

        Still I am a double ticker call me thicker than water if you may or feb

        • Just viping 10.1.2.1

          You gonna call in at her next clinic?

          • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 10.1.2.1.1

            Good idea,
            “free CV” badge and t shirt.
            What do you think…time for some accountability. All part of reconnecting to the electorate and base members.

    • Colonial Weka 10.2

      People need to be aware of the risks of posting at Red Alert
       
      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-07122012/comment-page-1/#comment-559704

    • mike e vipee 10.3

      a viper pit

  11. SouthDeezViper 11

    Can anyone please give me some more detail of what’s happened here?

    I’ve been coming here on a regular basis for a few years now and, although I rarely post anything, I often find the comments to be more stimulating than the article they’re attached to. By no means is this to suggest that I find the articles to be ill informed nor poorly written, or whatever, but that statement is a testament to how illuminating I find much of the debate that takes place on this blog. For example, I’m currently taking a Bachelor of Social Work, and I’ve trawled through here on several occasions looking for ideas when I’ve had assignments due that covered social policy. Especially so when I’ve wanted to check for some well-crafted musings on neoliberal welfare discourse, the social effects of free-market policies, and general critiques of capitalism.

    Anyway, one of the names that has always stuck out for me here is Colonial Viper. Admittedly, I didn’t always agree with the dude, but I most definitely always took the time to read through what he had to say if he was discussing a topic of interest for me. I don’t really know what else to say other than, this is fucking bullshit.

    Kia Kaha CV

  12. Jenny 12

    All the signs are that the Shearer gang still have the numbers in caucus to prevent a membership vote in February.

    They have achieved this by using the current rules, threatening to demote any MP who dares stand up to them.

    I thought that this would remain the current state of affairs up to and past February.

    And that’s where it would have ended. The membership may have been disgruntled but would have still got behind caucus come the election.

    However this latest effort to crush democracy inside the Labour Party that has so incensed people, makes me wonder if the Shearer gang has gone to far.

    There is no doubt that the Shearer gang controls caucus. But now that they are determined to reach down into the lower ranks to exert their authority, (that is barely legitimate), they may have started something they cannot stop.

    That is, a will from the membership to have their way. Against the minority of caucus that seek to frustrate that will. The ABCs did it in the original selection for leader and they did it again by demoting Cunliffe from any responsible role post conference. And they intend to continue to frustrate the membership desire for change come February……..

    Unless…….. the membership are so upset they choose to go to defcon 1, and react to caucus threats with threats of an organised membership strike against any MP that overrides the wishes of their LEC and votes with the Shearer gang.

    So all bets are off.

    And there is still a chance that the current leadership could be overturned come February and a more left leaning caucus united by a forceful, tested and experienced leader could see the Nats and Key facing a real and determined opposition party.

    • Colon Viper 12.1

      If they are being bullied into keeping quiet, it just shows what a gutless bunch of lackeys they are then…..

      • Grant Hay 12.1.1

        What kind person stops posting their passionately held opinions just because a chinless wonder in the Labour hierarchy goes on a “witch-hunt”. They dont actually burn witches any more and the ruling faction doesn’t have the powers of a witch-finder pursuivant. If Labour’s activist base is more concerned with membership of a dysfunctional party which ceased representing the working class decades ago, rather than the right to freedom of expression, then there truly is no hope for reclaiming the party from the clique that hijacked it in the first place.

    • Colonial Weka 12.2

      Karol, that deserves a post of its own. For instance, why do you think that the ABCs have the numbers? If they only won by 1 or 2 votes last year, have so many MPs shifted that the 60% +1 threshold is a given?
       
      Also, an explanation of how things work at the local level would be useful eg the relationship between the LEC and the electorate MP (what about the list MPs?). And isn’t the vote confidential, so how would the members know who voted which way?  Or is that an open secret?

      • karol 12.2.1

        Weka, I think your reply and questions are for Jenny, not me.

      • Jenny 12.2.2

        ……why do you think that the ABCs have the numbers? If they only won by 1 or 2 votes last year, have so many MPs shifted that the 60% +1 threshold is a given?

        Colonial Weka

        David Shearer appears to be weighing up his options for deputy prime minister between Green co-leader Russel Norman and NZ First leader Winston Peters as he looks for ways to reward support partners without letting go of the key finance portfolio.

        Vernon Small

        IMO It is also through his power over appointments and demotions that Shearer is threatening, or rewarding members of the Labour Party caucus.

  13. Adele Te Viper 13

    I used to enjoy commenting on another site called Aocafe. The site was a host for Māori opinions and dissent. The site also attracted a great deal of expert commentary on various aspects of Te Ao Māori, the Māori worldview. Much like this site it was very much a community of diverse peoples – coming together to debate issues far-ranging and wide of particular importance to whānau, hapū and community.

    The site dissappeared from the netscape when Police siezed its servers as part of the Urerewa raids. Until that time I never thought it possible to miss people you have never met, or miss something that never was. Aocafe was an important contributor to the Māori body politic.

    The Standard is an important part of the political scape of this country. Absolutely, we must stand against those that would seek to silence its voice or erase its effectiveness at exposing the incompetence and immorality of the government and its opposition counterpart.

    • Saarbo 13.1

      Adele, I assume the Blog never got up and running again? The Urerewa raids are clearly a case of where police power was out of control. Being from the Eastern BOP and knowing a number of people from Ruatoki and Taneatua, who know Tame well, are absolutely adamant that there is no way these guys were doing what they have been allegedly sent to jail for. 

      The relevance of this in terms of this particular post is when people are in powerful positions (Police, Caucus members, who ever) they need to treat it with respect, I would have hoped that Labour Party caucus members would be the last group that would abuse power. I’m absolutely  comfortable that my Labour party rep has integrity and would not abuse her power but clearly other caucus members have issues. 

      • Adele Te Viper 13.1.1

        Tēnā koe, Saarbo

        You assume correctly, Aocafe was never able to relaunch itself back onto the web. I am also from the Eastern Bay of Plenty and also share the view that there is no way that Tame and the others were ever intending to harm other human beings.

        I think we share the same Labour MP and I agree that she has integrity in spades. I do however think that it is possible for a person of integrity to support something inherently wrong because they lack sufficient depth and breadth of analysis – the very reason why the dissenting voice is invaluable to decision-making. The dissenter provides the counter-argument and an astute and noble leader would rather cultivate the dissenting voice than seek to cull it.

  14. kiwi_prometheus 14

    “There is no doubt that the Shearer gang controls caucus. But now that they are determined to reach down into the lower ranks to exert their authority”

    Yeah they are trying to root out the source of the trouble making and get some discipline back amongst the rank and file.

    You lot would do THE EXACT SAME THING if the tables were turned.

    I think the Listener summed it up nicely:

    http://www.listener.co.nz/current-affairs/politics/david-cunliffe-shearer-coup-history/

    “For all that [ Cunliffe’s ] supporters, inside and outside the caucus, are insisting that he did nothing wrong, he really and truly did the coupster’s equivalent of waving his knickers at disembarking sailors. He followed several of the bog-standard, by-the-numbers steps taught in Coups 101, to the point that he might have studied at the knee of Maurice Williamson, Brian Connell or Richard Prebble…

    …his failure, as party finance spokesman last election, to produce his policy work on time and to do sufficient heavy lifting on the campaign trail. At one crucial point, he even went on holiday. Either he was lazy, or was deliberately being unhelpful, colleagues fumed…most concluded the latter: that he had deduced that Labour would lose quite badly (admittedly not a daring conclusion) and had decided to assist Phil Goff’s image of weakness by not helping too much…when an MP as olde-worlde courteous and decent as Goff goes openly dog on you, it’s time to reflect.”

    LOL.

    And you ninnies are now wailing about the purging being undertaken by the top brass.

    Anyway you can go join the Greens, so its not like you will be left homeless.

    • Jenny Kirk 14.1

      Come on Kiwi Prom – look who is writing that tripe in the Listener. Non other than the latest hand-holder of the drake Mallard. I watched Cunliffe at election time : he was superb with a low income, state housing audience in the north. He didn’t talk down to them, they understood him – and they wanted more ! Its a pity the rightwing caucus are so blind that they cannot see what they’re losing.

      • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1

        Its a pity the rightwing caucus are so blind that they cannot see what they’re losing.

        And that’s your answer right there. We see it from National and Act all the time when they absolutely refuse to see the evidence that their policies and beliefs are contrary to reality.

      • Grant Hay 14.1.2

        “Come on Kiwi Prom – look who is writing that tripe in the Listener. Non other than the latest hand-holder of the drake Mallard.”

        HANDHOLDER (snort)!! I thought she was holding his…….speechnotes……..

    • Draco T Bastard 14.2

      Yeah they are trying to root out the source of the trouble making and get some discipline back amongst the rank and file.

      It’s not caucuses place to discipline the rank and file. The caucus works for the rank and file and so it should be the rank and file that does any disciplining that needs doing.

      You lot would do THE EXACT SAME THING if the tables were turned.

      Nope, I’d be asking why the rank and file think I’m doing something wrong and either change what I’m doing or step down. That really is the only two options an MP has.

    • Saarbo 14.3

      when an MP as olde-worlde courteous and decent as Goff goes openly dog on you, it’s time to reflect.””

      or maybe Goff was looking for a scape goat for his below par performance, he simply did not get the facts together to support his Policy. The sad thing is that Shearer looks very similar when discussing the new Housing Policy…who does Shearer blame? They need to take responsibility for their own hopelessness. 

      You only have to view Mood of The Boardroom performance by Cunliffe to see his form in Nov 2011. 

  15. Fucking awesome! Way to go Standardistas. You may lead the revolution yet!

  16. colonial locus 16

    You lot would do THE EXACT SAME THING if the tables were turned

    From your ill-considered use of the phrase “you lot” it appears that you blithely assume the wide array of TS contributors supporting CV and others in the face of bullying – actually it’s more akin to blackmail – are all Labour Party rank and file.

    The issue you need to get your head around is that the people you are superciliously talking down to and calling “you lot”, represent many who value freedom to debate under a pseudonym on the web.

  17. Viperous Descendant Of Smith 17

    Til this happened I had little interest in the leadership of the Labour Party. For me I was waiting for some left wing policy to emerge – I even proffered the sorts of policies I would welcome – a decent increase in benefit rates, a commitment to an 8 hour working week (you know that thing the pretend to be Labour Party is so proud of on their website), a increase in taxation for people like me who can afford it, strengthening union members powers including the right to strike, etc.

    After the increased powers given to members I seriously considered for the first time joining the Labour Party and not just voting for it. I held off knowing one swallow a summer does not make.

    I’ve managed teams where I have had people undermining the team. In my experience engaging with them, particularly when you know deep down they are there because they care, is the most effective strategy. It’s a people focussed strategy that doesn’t treat the dissenter as a human resource. It also means that sometimes you find out that you the boss aren’t always right or on the same wavelength as your staff. You cannot order someone to willingly follow.

    It takes a bit more time and takes a bit more effort and doesn’t guarantee success but is successful more often than not but importantly builds a stronger more committed team over time.

    Why am I now interested in the leadership – because such an approach and the alternative of forced compliance can only come from the person running the team.

    If you can’t bring people who are committed to good things for the ordinary working people onside and I have no doubt from his postings CV does – those who know him personally and within the Labour Party would have a much better idea than I.

    Forcing compliance and silence is not the answer here.

    It will be interesting to me then how Shearer responds. Will we see a backdown, an acknowledgement that the party got this wrong and that Shearer will personally engage with those who are being pushed out of the way and marginalised?

    Will he alternatively come out and explain why they have taken the position they have and why the Labour Party needs to do this?

    Or will we just hear zilch from him while minions behind the scenes carry out his bidding, putting their own twists on it like prison camp commanders or southern Texas sheriffs.

    But me I’m just a voter commenting on a blog. Apparently I’m not read and I don’t count.

    Btw Isn’t

    • Viperous Descendant Of Smith 17.1

      BTW Isn’t Shearer supposed to be good at solving problems between warring factions?

      PS I won’t sooty any politician who suppresses anyone’s freedom of speech

      • Viperous Descendant Of Smith 17.1.1

        Support not sooty big fingers little ipad

        • George Viper. 17.1.1.1


          I was waiting for some left wing policy to emerge – I even proffered the sorts of policies I would welcome – a decent increase in benefit rates, a commitment to an 8 hour working week (you know that thing the pretend to be Labour Party is so proud of on their website), a increase in taxation for people like me who can afford it, strengthening union members powers including the right to strike, etc.

          THIS. These are the questions I ask Labour MPs when I see them. “Do you support compulsory overtime for a person working more than 8 hours in one day, or 40 hours in one week?” If they cannot give me an unadulterated and unqualified yes, then I don’t really have anything more to ask them.

          Though I’m a Green member, and my identity is pretty transparent (its only function is to sidestep Google, not who I am), I’m still very concerned by this. And rather outraged by the way in which those I know are being marched towards “managed democracy”. Good luck to you all.

    • viperidae 17.2

      This is why I finally decided that Shearer was absolutely hopeless as a leader.

      I had no particular brief for Cunliffe or any other Labour politician, but he has proved to be the most effective one they have.

      A leader finds a way to keep people working together for the goals.

      The present leadership hasn’t got a clue.

      In fact the whole of our Parliament at the moment shows why we cannot leave running the country to that bunch of clowns and why we need binding referenda, and recalls!

    • Jenny 17.3

      After the increased powers given to members I seriously considered for the first time joining the Labour Party and not just voting for it. I held off knowing one swallow a summer does not make.

      Viperous Descendant Of Smith

      Me too.

      I even considered letting them see my
      CV.

      But after this development I would feel that I was back in Syria.

      Luckily I have got away (again) my honour and anonymity intact.

    • Saarbo 17.4

      I agree with you whole heartedly!!! This is exactly what I would expect an experienced Leader to do. Shearer’s leadership style is simply not suited as Leader of a major political party, and I cannot see for the life of me  how anyone could think that he has what it takes to Lead Labour to victory in 2014. I wouldn’t be surprised if Curran didn’t pass this in front of Shearer before she started down this path, clearly under Shearer there is a huge void in leadership and the caucus (Shearer’s mob) are free to do what they want. 

      I’m a relatively new member and I am incredibly disappointed at how Labour is operated. In my view it comes back to Leadership. For example, at the conference I would have expected Shearer to open the Conf on both Sat and Sun, he should have rallied the Caucus members, let a few of them say a few words, just create a bridge between the members and caucus, instead the caucus members wondered around randomly and there was just a lack of connection. 

       If you can’t bring people who are committed to good things for the ordinary working people onside and I have no doubt from his postings CV does – those who know him personally and within the Labour Party would have a much better idea than I.
       
      You have nailed it VDOS, great leaders rarely use their formal power, and that is the problem with this lot in Caucus, they have the formal power to do what they are doing but in doing so, they are losing  a group of members who are probably the most passionate and committed.

      Shearer is not the answer, nor is it any of his ABC supporters in Caucus. This group have done a lot of damage, they have created a big divide within Labour. I am sure that many of the ABC’ers have managed to convince their LEC/Branches that Cunliffe is evil (as we witnessed at the Conf) and Shearer is the answer but the free thinking/cleverer members can see the situation for what it is worth. Keeping Shearer at the helm is handing power to National in 2014.

      The situation in Labour is not flash, we have a below average leader, we have a caucus who are leaderless and out of control, trying to exert what ever power they can get a hold of. We have a proven/outstanding MP who only has the support of 12 of his caucus members however has the majority membership support. 

      I dont know what the answer is,  but I do know that who ever becomes Leader in the future she/he needs to take some advice from Viperous Descendant of Smith…because that is the only way this faction issue is going to be mended.

  18. Ad 18

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    If this site rained scrutiny down upon any other industry, each commentator would need to be equally debt free and commercial interest free.

    We are contesting in a real market where many here have real interests at stake.

    We always knew the counterattack would come. It’s here. They won’t stop. They have everything in their market to lose: power.

    We will win if we strengthen our allies, and continue to beat the MSM, because the media is our battlefield, our market. Their interests converge so they have allied close and are in formation.

    Remember we are fighting both the MSM and the core ofLabour caucus together, which is more powerful than us.

    Events are in the saddle, and we ride, my friends.

  19. karol thrace viper 19

    What an ugly place the Labour Party caucus has become!  And in doing it, they are becoming everything they were set up to oppose.
     
    I will continue to vote Green (or vote Mana).  Unfortunately, any Labour led government will likely contaminate it’s support partner with its undemocratic and dictatorial practices.  Unless the Labour Party can be turned to a better course, the future of NZ’s political landscape is bleak.
     
    I made a comment or two yesterday about how the Labour caucus has become the Menz Party – they have been sucked into the NAct agenda, and are making the main battlefield the economy, and between alpha males.  Now we see there are at least a couple of women acting behind the scenes to support suich a macho-caucus front.  What a disgrace! 
     
    There are plenty of competent women in the Labour and Green Party caucus. Some, along with some men, ARE working on very important policies for struggling and low income kiwis.  I’m sorry to see such efforts marginalised.
     
    I’ve never been a member of any political party, and my work life is drawing to an end.  I will continue to post and comment on any failings I see in opposition parties.  And I certainly won’t stop writing about the disgrace the Labour Party caucus has become.
     
    All this has happened before, and it will happen again.

    • David Viperious H 19.1

      Something along the lines of Power corrupting and Absolute power yada yada you get what I mean. But why are they so scared of little ol’ us???

  20. karol thrace viper 20

    And from Bomber, viperously this morning:

    The censorship of members dissent in this manner is a new low by Labour post their character assassination of Cunliffe. …

    I’m not sure this ruthless level of intimidation will do anything other than provoke a long running online guerrilla campaign by left wing activists savaging Shearer on a weekly basis all the way to the election. 

    It seems Shearer has replaced Pagani with a kamikaze pilot for a political advisor. 

    The only winners from this kind of behavior are the Greens and MANA. 

    • Colonial Weka 20.1

      I’m not sure this ruthless level of intimidation will do anything other than provoke a long running online guerrilla campaign by left wing activists savaging Shearer on a weekly basis all the way to the election.
      – Bomber
       

      Interesting phrasing, because I’ve been thinking about the comparisons between the Labour party membership/left wing blogosphere and guerrilla/freedom fighters. And how the ABCs don’t realise they’re fighting a war that that can never win.

  21. Wayne 21

    Karol,

    If you and others here keep saying “I will continue to vote Green”, don’t be surprised if the leadership wants you out. Having said that of course I have no idea if you are a member of the LP, so my comment is not actually directed to you. More an observation of how parties work.

    So therefore if I was in a party and some of the members were fomenting “trouble”and saying they were going to vote for another party, I would want them out of positions or responsibility, say electorate secretary or on an electorate executive, and I would organise to get that outcome.

    • karol thrace viper 21.1

      Wayne, as I’ve always said, I’ve never been a member of a political party – not the NZ Labour Party or any other.  If they start taking repressive action against people like me, they truly show they are anti-democratic.

      • Wayne 21.1.1

        As indeed they cannot, which of course you know. Party rules can only apply to Party members, but as a general rule no major party would allow office holders to state they will vote for another party and that person to then continue in office. The proper course is to resign. Parties might be voluntary organisations, but they can have rules applying to their members.

    • David Viperious H 21.2

      It looks like they want to purge this nest of vipers from the party’s books. Gotta rig the Feb vote somehow. Won’t win the Election tho’ as they will have very little help. Will be good for the Greens tho’. Maybe that’s whats needed, a complete thrashing with all dinosaurs out. And a stunning Green victory.

  22. Viper73 22

    If she thinks she can do this in opposition to members of her own party what will she be like once shes in power?

    This is not good

    • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 22.1

      Christ, Clare is just the front for this attackers on free speech by a scared and desperate clique around the great bumbler…
      Preamble shearer is a middling nice guy should have a minor portfolio but that it…

    • felixviper 22.2

      Exactly my first thought V73. Trust her with the full power of the state? Yeah nah.

      • One Tāne Viper 22.2.1

        Paula Bennett, or Paula Bennett lite?

        National, or National lite?

        So, Dunedin South LEC, what are you going to do?

  23. The damn ‘Nactoids’ need to be sent a clear message that their actions will have consequences
    in 2yrs time or even in february.
    When the lion really awakes and roars, those who choose to take away democracy will
    find their ‘undemocratic’ seats and arses turfed out of government and electorates.

  24. tc 24

    the mallarfia is determined to sink their ship, they’ve shown utter contempt for the rank and file and an intolerance of diversity and talent. They fear Cunliffe like most inept management fear the up and coming more talented and able candidates.

    Agree with a prior post, the winners are other parties. I know of many labour supporters who will turning green next poll. WTF is their to vote for with this self serving wannabes.

    These jokers are treating the party as their own fiefdom not a vehicle to unseat a nasty, corrupt, dickensian, uncaring gov’t to restore some balance to workers and the hard done by, SHAME ON THEM ALL.

    • Draco T Bastard 24.1

      These jokers are treating the party as their own fiefdom…

      That seems to be the end result of any and all hierarchies. The people at the top really do start believing that they’re special and acting as if the rest of us owe them obeisance.

      • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 24.1.1

        For me that stated observation started at high school when myself , a very high up LP Member and others within the wider group challenged the Tory elitist DP over where the student raised funds held in bank account where spent on and not on the intended common room.we threatened to sue the school, interestingly we organised a socialist group at school as a focal discussion
        I’ve battled the elite management class and owner class ever since.

        Had one business owner call his employees his slaves as he laught his was to being extremely wealth so yes I agree with you DTB part of the revolution is post post capitalism and a reallocation of profit – well my dream and hope.

    • “Mallarfia”

      Very good TC.  Mind if I plagarise it? 

  25. bad12 25

    I am amused, even slightly bemused, the Labour Caucus of NOW is nothing new and has been with us since 1984,

    Even during the Clark Labour Governments the Labour Caucus was still that of a 1984 Lange/Douglas Government,

    The disconnect becomes apparent when i read the pages of The Standard, the majority of comments, even those from declared Labour Party members, show on the whole that what is being espoused is in fact Green Party policy in 90% of comments posted,

    Hence my slight bemusement, anyone believing that Labour are anything but the Socialist Party OF, BY, and FOR the middle class of New Zealand seems from where i sit to have been engaged in a Rip Van Winkle episode for quite some time,

    It then becomes obvious that any threat to those middle class aspirations espoused from within the Labour Party will be viewed, (by those supporting the middle class agenda), as a threat, hence the recent treatment of Cunliffe and those who agitate on His political behalf openly in on-line forum,

    How wide-spread the anger from Labour Party stalwarts is at the overt threats against those who continue to agitate on behalf of a Cunliffe lead Labour Party is i have no means of judging except from the on-line comments posted,

    However, besides venting their on-line fury at such tactics from within the Labour Caucus those who agitate for Cunliffe should be (a), lobbying their nearest Labour MP to vote in February to trigger a Party wide vote on the leadership, and (b),advocating and agitating at Local Electorate Committee level to have remits passed that their local MP vote to trigger the leadership vote in February,

    Other than the above, the only reasonable action that those so threatened from the Labour Caucus would seem to have at their disposal would be to, (tongue firmly in cheek), join a party such as the Greens who seem to in the social/economic policy areas espouse the exact same policy that was prior to 1984 central to the Labour ism,

    Please note,(with a snigger),this HAS NOT been an official Green Party recruiting message, Bwana Dave Shearer et al are busy filling that role in a freelance capacity at the moment…

    • viperidae 25.1

      Yes well. Labour left me in 1984.

      Now a Green.

      It is obvious that most of Labours R and F now have more in common with the Greens than their own caucus. I hope they can get their own party back.

      But I don’t care which party gets rid of National and gets rid of the mean spirited and dysfunctional neo-liberal dog eat dog society we are becoming. So long as we do.

      Unfortunately it no longer looks like it will be Labour.

    • bad12 25.2

      Anyone not having a context from within which to view my contention of the 2012 Labour Party being solely a socialist party of, for, and by the New Zealand middle class need only look at the relevant party’s, (Labour/Green), housing policy,

      Labour = borrow 1.5-2 billion dollars and build 30,000 houses at a retail price to those who will buy them, (presumably), on market terms of $300,000+, thus, in it’s announced form such a housing policy by it’s adherence to ‘market qualification’, (deliberately???), excludes from such housing those with insufficient income to service a 300 thousand+ mortgage,

      Greens= build 30,000 new State houses, if their is budgetary constraint to construction simply print the monies necessary and build the housing at such a pace as to spend the monies into the economy while paying due regard to the Reserve Bank’s inflation targets band,

      30,000 new state houses would allow for the ‘working poor’, those who daily toil in the non-professional areas of economy at or just above the minimum wage while raising families who have no hope of becoming financially upwardly mobile to enjoy a fixed rent regime of 25% of household income thus freeing them from the current norm of paying between 50-60% of their income into the private rental market, as such families are housed they would by dint of household income and rents paid reduce the overall taxpayer subsidy in the whole State owned housing portfolio,

      The Green housing policy is nothing ‘new’, it was once at the core of Labour Party values and while Labour still hold to the 25% of income as the benchmark rent for ‘the poor’ their ‘will’ to increase markedly the number of such houses is sadly lacking,

      While the economics of construction within both Party’s policy vis a vis employment and further ongoing production are much the same the end result is obviously quite markedly different,

      Under the Labour housing proposal,(in it’s current form), the recipients of such would need an income sufficient to service a 300 grand+ mortgage, (why not just put up a poster saying middle class income earners only need apply),

      In such a case more of the production of New Zealand will simply flow out of New Zealand as bank profit for the foreign owned banks NOT having transited the local economy,

      Under a Green policy however the reverse would be true,the ‘working poor’ would see themselves housed at 25% of household income thus freeing themselves from the private sectors 50-60% of income private rentals and freeing them to either save or spend into the local economy the difference in dollars between the two rental regimes,

      That’s all a bit of a long-winded,(understatement),stating of the perceived difference in policy between Labour and the Greeens, there’s nothing frighteningly radical in the Green policy it is simply a copy of what was Labour policy,

      The radicalism is tho apparent in the announced Labour policy and it is the radicalism of the middle class where the recipients of such Governmental largesse wont by dint of income be those who daily toil to clean the offices and infrasructure of those who devised it…

      • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 25.2.1

        How about do both policies

        • bad12 25.2.1.1

          Touchee, good point, indeed why not???, the only constraint being that both Party’s would have to halve their relative policy,

          In terms of the Reserve Bank’s inflationary targets building 10,000 extra houses a year would in terms of current and future short to medium term economics probably not create any inflationary problems within the current targets,

          Building 20,000 extra houses a year tho probably would, the same ends tho would, sooner or later, be met in building 10,000 extra houses and allocating half that build to State rentals while allowing the ‘working poor’ access to these,(IE, those with an income insufficient to service a 300+ grand mortgage being accorded access on a priority basis)…

          • Draco T Bastard 25.2.1.1.1

            Building 20,000 extra houses a year tho probably would, the same ends tho would,

            There’s ways to prevent that and one of the easiest and simplest would be to ban exporting of any and all construction materials such as wood. This would, effective;y, flood the local market with these materials dropping the price except that the government would then be using those same materials for house house building.

            • MrSmith 25.2.1.1.1.1

              Problem is I’m not sure we export that many building materials apart from timber, and the ‘A’ grade log price remains at around US$130 a cubic metre, believe me there are not that many cubes in a house.

      • Draco T Bastard 25.2.2

        Labour’s housing policy is for the Bankster class. Sure, the middle class will think it’s for them as they get to buy affordable homes but the real benefits go to the banks who get to create more money at interest.

    • R 25.3

      +1, but don’t forget Mana too.

  26. vto viped 26

    Well all this palava is just another reason to push my now left-heading vote to someone other than labour. I recall the shenanigans that went on when labour were last in power and did not like it not one little bit.

    And from what I can tell things would be exactly the same if they are in power again.

    And Clare Curran’s machinations around this particular issue confirms it.

    Power to the people!

    edit: beware the instinctive urge in labour to act as school teachers. it never seems to go away.

  27. viperfreedom 27

    I have been head down in the workshop lately trying to pay bills, failing mostly, and have missed much of what has been going on. The little I have gleaned leaves me staggered and disgusted by the corrupt temerity of the Labour Party MP’s who have, by their silenct lack of action, given tacit approval of this abusive activity. The cadre of cowards that seem to be at the helm have done little but prepare the grave for what was once, yet is no longer, a political party NZ could be proud of.

    Like many i have a few friends, i am not talking ‘friends with influence or position’ but real friends. Something Labour has obviously forgotten as it is friendship which built their Party. It is likely it is friendship which will also destroy it. Friends value and appreciate the efforts of all those who want the world to be a better place. Something else Labour has forgotten was their job to help achieve. Why these friends matter is simple and is well understood. You tell two friends and they tell two friends, and so on and so on and so on. The Labour Party, and their siamese sibling the NActs, deserve to lose handsomely at the next Election.

  28. vto viped 28

    What was the problem with colonial viper and his posts on here anyway?

    From what I read the points were always well made, incredibly well supported by knowledge and facts, and done with rspect and humour. So what was the problema?

    I guess it must have been something to do with internal labour party politics…… which is oh so important. ffs. Stupid. stupid stupid stupid. Cut off your nose to spite your face.

    • ColonialPete 28.1

      From what I read the points were always well made, incredibly well supported by knowledge and facts, and done with rspect and humour. So what was the problem?

      I think you’ve answered your own question.

  29. Viper73 29

    I know I’ve ragged on the looney lefties in the past (and deservedly so) but this would be one of the most (if not most) dumb-ass things counter-productive things I’ve ever heard an MP propose…

    Whats an electorate MP get a year, $150 grand or something and this is what it produces?!?!?

    What next, every right wing blogger gets put in prison for dissension?

    • TighyVipey 29.1

      As one who detests the faux socialism and other pretensions of CV, I feel for him over this. I may not like what he says, but I defend his right to say it.

      • Craig Glen viper 29.1.1

        Thanks for showing your solidarity lol! Tighy Vipey im sure CV would say the same back at you.

        • TightyVipey 29.1.1.1

          You know what? I honestly don’t think he would. but that doesn’t mean that I would ever stand by and let some shit tell someone else what to say, or even if they could say it.

          I’d like to think that no matter how misguided CV is, he would echo my sentiments, but I think he has a personal visceral dislike for me that would probably get in the way. a la clare curran. the difference being that she has the power to affect him, CV doesn’t with me. No matter, I hope he is ok.

      • ColonialContrarian 29.1.2

        Damn right. You don’t have to agree or like the person but they have the right to be disagreeable.

        • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 29.1.2.1

          More like..
          Damn the right
          And irony as pointed out by CGE is apt.
          Solidarity from a righty…the world has hope yet.
          Bring on Xmas

        • TightyVipey 29.1.2.2

          If you believe in freedom of speech, you have to protect the speech you disagree with the most.

      • TightyVipey 29.1.3

        Clare Curran having policy dictated to her by the authoritarian states?

        http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/the-meeting-that-could-kill-the-internet-20121207-2azj9.html

  30. Colonialoscopic Monkey 30

    Spectacular own-goal by the Shearer-gang and their elite backers… at least they’re showing themselves clearly for what they are.

    Kia kaha CV.

  31. Ant 31

    Clare Curran is totally Tori.

    • One Tāne Viper 31.1

      Let’s make sure (in the absence of a public apology) she wears all the consequences of her disgusting behaviour.

      Authoritarian scum have no place on the left.

      • Peter 31.1.1

        There are plenty of issues for the membership in Dunedin South to discuss I think.

        • Macro_adder 31.1.1.1

          Yes I think that the membership of Dunedin South should be, taking their representative in hand, and explaining a few facts of life. The damage that this stupidity is causing is getting out of hand.

  32. Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 32

    Just a quick comparison between 1984 and Now.

    We might have to be carefully actually as in our haste to rein in the reign of coming terror and night of the knives in per feb, we might cause labour to implode.
    Remember the affiliates has a sniff of their 40 percent and have a union block as MP, combined with a untamed and unbowed membership.
    Perhaps time for each LEC to take stock, poll the members and quietly issue a internal directive stating exactly which direction the members want labour to take.
    Do we want a more continual drift to the right or is it time to correct the electorate drift by reorganising and reconnecting thru active participation in the electrorate from MP as drivers of change.
    Shall we sink beneath the Tory blue wave or do we take a stand and fight for what the real labour stands for….betterment of all and not the few.

    We need a strong powerful Labour, an open inclusive labour with clear direction signalled early, a pathway outa the mire of neo lib, post capitalism darkness.

    We don’t need a Tory light party that props up or harnesses the old dying one horse capitalist system to fund pet social program’s we need a New Direction completely.
    Coming crunch of oil shock and climate change are our twin towers to be faced.

    • bad12 32.1

      The problem tho is that while what you are saying is true we all have been saying the same thing over and over again since Sir(spit) Roger Douglas unleashed His brand new world vision upon us in 1984,

      In that time we have had The Alliance and now the Green’s with the latter,(in my opinion being far more politically astute),

      My devious self here urges me to invite a spanking by inserting my vote g…Gr…Gree…(can’t quite get it out), message because what you so rightly elucidate in your comment is encompassed in that Party’s policy,

      My above comment’s in the post,(at first reading having little to do with the specific topic,sorry), address at one policy level the fact that on an economic level we all cannot keep expecting more, bigger, and better,

      Even if one does not adhere to ‘Peak isms’ in resource based economics the basic tenet of ‘globalization’ says that as a population we have to expect wages not to rise markedly,(and view with disparagement those who attempt to sell us the snake oil of equality of income with out bigger neighbor)…

    • Draco T Bastard 32.2

      …a pathway outa the mire of neo lib, post capitalism darkness.

      Um, what? neo-liberalism is the height capitalism. What we really need is to become post capitalist.

    • Ad 32.3

      Good suggestion there Neoleftie.

      Every LEC should check whether it wants to resist. Note that New Lynn LEC’s complaint, rather than being dealt with by the central committee, was sent straight up to the Leader of Caucus for comment.

      So don’t expect any protection, irrespective of any newfangled rules.

      Each LEC could ask itself over the break:

      – How is what they are doing advancing the cause of the Labour Party?

      – How much willingness, energy, and funding can they generate to sustain the Labour Party cause?

      – Can they join in solidarity with other supportive LEC’s or Affiliates or friendly NGO’s in common cause, or do they need to be more in recovery mode? And if so how?

      Some may say it is better to fireworks and burn out, than to fade away.

      Maybe that’s the trajectory for some once a decision has been made in February.

      But at some point we will all have to decide where we stand, and either be in the game for whatever team, or retreat gracefully to the commentariat, or have the official cup of tea and a lie-down.

      • Viper Anne 32.3.1

        Note that New Lynn LEC’s complaint, rather than being dealt with by the central committee, was sent straight up to the Leader of Caucus for comment.

        Thanks for that info. AD. To be fair, they would have to pass it to the Leader of Caucus for comment, but it’s got to come back to the NZ Council for a ruling. It won’t be a satisfactory ruling – that’s a given. But they might have the guts to remonstrate with the ABC club privately, and tell them to pull their horns in. Or: am I being overly optimistic?

        • Ad 32.3.1.1

          Central Committee has had plenty of chances already – Tamihere being the latest.

          Process is fine until the Leadership has a specific interest. Then its simply game on.

          Sorry if it wasn’t fair. But what in the last year has?

  33. Tazireviper 33

    PG and CC meeting of the minds???

  34. Jum 34

    I don’t comment here anymore, but I often read the threads. The one person that always stood out for me as being objective, thoughtful, politically knowledgeable and fair was CV. If he/she said something, I respected it. She/he is a lateral thinker which is rare and quite frankly this blog has lost someone very valuable. Hope she/he returns soon.

    I have always voted Labour, both ticks, but Roger Douglas the chicago boys Pinochet NZ clone ensured I would never risk becoming a Labour member. Now I am forced to consider other voting options because of this latest nonsense and the TPPA double-speak from Labour which risks our children’s health, welfare, working rights, because it still plans to sign the pledge to American control with a few remit points that would be swallowed up in the small print.

    Merry Christmas and a better New Year to CV.

  35. Visubversaviper 35

    If it is any consolation – this has all happened before and the Labour Party came out of it much stronger.

    In the early 1990’s we had the Backbone Club, a bunch of Rogernomes who could not accept that it was their crap policies which had cost Labour the 1990 election. They buggered off to ACT but not before they has asset stripped several electorates where their candidates had not got selected. They left one electorate with $7 in the bank and another with a disfunctional computer supposedly worth $6,000 and pages and pages of supposed members who did not actually exist, or if they did, had no idea they were in the Labour Party.

    After them were the followers of the biggest cult of the leader since Kim Il Sung. The bully boys of the MMSC swaggered around electorates as if they owned the place, paid for by the an early equivalent of a Super PAC. Canvassers for Labour now had an extra question added – “are you a Mike Moore supporter” and material which had previously had “NZLP” on it now had the dreaded “MMSC” logo.

    The rank and file revolted, the leader changed, and the bully boys either repented or vanished.

    Now that we have the internet, the disinfecting sunlight can be shone on these things a lot easier.

    I will never vote anything other than Labour and I still pay my sub and my VFL. I hope history repeats, and from the look of it – aided by blogs like this, good people are coming to the aid of the Party.

    • Jenny 35.1

      Mike Moore was also sullied by his advocacy for the Compact, a tripartite agreement for a super collaboration between union leaders, business leaders and government which required major concession from the unions and which gave up the trade unions role as an independant advocate for their members but which proved to be very unpopular amongst many rank and file. Many trace the decline in union power in this country to the Union leaders top table imposition of Mike Moore’s Compact.

      • Jenny 35.1.1

        Maybe the Labour Party top table could take heed and learn from this example. The bureaucratic imposition of authority risks collapsing your organisation.

        Former union delegate and TUAC member (Trade Unionists Against the Compact)

  36. Ms X 36

    Two things bother me about all this – aside from the major issue of trying to curb freedom of speech, which is a basic human right.
    1. Come February, what happens to little clusters of Labour members who do not belong to an LEC because of their size? If a vote should take place, will they have a voice? After the last election, branches were decimated.
    2. WHEN has a new mp shot to the top of the tree and succeeded? It didn’t work for Don Brash and I don’t see it happening now.

    • jenny Kirk 36.1

      To Ms X. The Party council did say that if the 60% threshold wasn’t reached and there was to be a party-wide vote, it would be a postal vote to all financial members.
      However, from comments on this post, it doesn’t look as if there is likely to be a vote – sounds as if Shearer and his mates have tied up the whole of caucus to vote for him S.

      By the way – I missed the comment about Goff being olde world and courteous. Ms Clifton hasn’t been given the full story about Goff in the late 1980s by her hand-holding drake – he (Goff) was one of the most vocal and brutal in attacking Lange in caucus – lots of nasty dog in that guy and in the others, of course.

      • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 36.1.1

        Oh thank that was very interesting about goff.
        Guess who models himself on Lange in Wellington or at least admired the man.?
        Oh CV come back soon.

        Once there was a man or woman brave bold and tall in the time of the Pax USA
        Who told it how it is was and could be.
        A man or woman who saw the future and wasn’t afraid to speak out.
        Until the day up came a a loud silly animal with two humps who didn’t like noise one wee bit.
        Either sling it or shut it cause I’ve got two humps big and strong….then
        The clouds hid the sun, day went to night and the knives came out.
        Rest in peace CV.

    • geoff 36.2

      2. WHEN has a new mp shot to the top of the tree and succeeded? It didn’t work for Don Brash and I don’t see it happening now.

      Does John Key count?

  37. veutoviper 37

    I have read all the comments on this apparent situation of intimidation of people like CV and others here over the last few days and have been utterly disgusted that any Labour Party caucus members would take such an approach to the rights of people to freedom of expression – whether or not they are party members and active in the party. If they thought that this was OK and would be kept under wraps, then they are very naive and should not be in senior positions in the party. Such actions are bound to back fire – both on them personally and on the party as a whole.

    I had a quick look at KB earlier for the first time for months, and to give him his due, even PG is up in arms and supporting the views of many here. And under fire for doing so.

    My support and best wishes go to CV and the others – hang in there and don’t give in. You have a lot of support. Kia Kaha.

    • seeker 37.1

      Well said veutoviper.This is so not a Labour Party that I can vote for. What has happened to them? First the monstrous leadership charade and now this. I am beginning to see how Douglas highjacked the Labour party in the eighties. Without principles one is asking for trouble and I am not at all sure of the principles and values of today’s Labour anymore. I am not sure that I can trust them anymore than I can national. WOW, did I just type that???

  38. Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 38

    Just been whispered that the hold up from central processing the new membership is due to understaffing of course but also to hold off all the new change supporters until next year registration where their voice and vote can’t be heard or count.
    Whisper only at this stage….

    • New LP member maybe 38.1

      That is interesting.

      I “joined” via the internet in early Dec and paid via the internet. I received a stock email back the same day which says amongst other things:

      “Date”
      “Subject: Receipt – Annual Membership – Welcome to the Labour Party”

      “You may print this email as proof of provisional membership until your offical membership card arrives in the post’ and

      “Once again we sincerely thank you for being a member of the Labour Party, it is very much appreciated” and

      “Please print this confirmation for your records.”

      As far as I am concerned, the wording above constitutes acceptance of my membership. AND I have it printed out on that same day. There was nothing on the internet form suggesting it was for next year’s subscription, so if there are any problems or attempts to suggest that, I will not let it rest.

      • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 38.1.1

        Great mate you’re in….welcome to the party, wine or beer in the chiller, it’s a buffet not a BBQ.

    • mac1 38.2

      All I can say there is a lot of whispering not worth listening too at this stage. Also a lot of shouting.

      What I’d do is find a NZLP member with a membership book, slip him/her the current fee (I don’t know what that is since my membership comes with my ongoing automatic contribution to the annual giving plan) and have the little chittie that comes from the membership book all dated and fully kosher.

      That’d have to fill the bill for membership.

  39. KhandallaMan-an Absolutely Fabulous Viper 39

    Sunday Quiz Time:

    Q1. 
    What does Clare Curran and Chris Hiplins have in common?
    A1.
    They both were given good solid seats that they are screwing-up and leaving open to a National take-over. ( and are thus sucking up for high list positions)

    Q2.
    What does Darien Fenton and Jacinda Ardern have in common?
    A2.
    They both failed to ever win Electorate seats and build support among branch members.  (and are thus sucking up for high list positions)

    try setting up your own quiz!
     

    • Ant 39.1

      I always had the impression that Jacinda was far more interested in Wellington than in winning Auckland Central.

      She really should have won it last time it but is pretty much invisible in the electorate. You’d see more of David Parker in Grey Lynn than her LOL.

      • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 39.1.1

        That’s the half the trouble MP have evolved into beltway hacks and have let the local party organisation run down terrible and have little involvement in their communities.
        There are so so soooo many operational tactic and strategies that could be adopted for local elections.
        Did CC Dunedin south even consider why the party vote swung away from her and labour in such a traditional safe and resourced seat.

      • Veutoviper 39.1.2

        But Jacinda has time to do this

        http://t.co/ID0bNmKd

        Thanks to Kim Dot.com’s Twitter site for the link.

        Incidentially, by coincidence (?) about 13 hours ago, Dotcom retwittered a conversation with Clare Curran dated 26 Nov re the new Mega. Mallard was also in the conversation.

        About halfway down – click on the conversation to see it in full

        https://mobile.twitter.com/KimDotcom

        Wonderful picture of his swans in love there also in his latest tweet.

  40. Didn’t turn out too well for Lange either.

  41. Skinny 41

    After reading the anger of a good number of the punters on here & who’s  sentiments are also reflected by a good deal of the voting public. 

    Perhaps consideration should given to forming a ‘new’ political party to the Left. 5% to 8% is not  unrealistic given the wave of unsatisfied punters out there. Certainly be a good way of keeping a Labour/Green coalition where they should be, ‘on a bloody LEFT course.’   

  42. SHG (not Colonial Viper) 42

    Clare Curran’s greatest hits (this is an update of a post I made on Danyl’s blog a while back)

    I keep hearing how Curran is a communications expert, and seeing absolutely no evidence of it. As Labour’s telecommunications spokesperson she appears to be technically ignorant and of average literacy at best. Examples:

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/05/27/lets-all-admit-it-our-internet-speeds-are-rubbish/
    Curran finds out about a site on the interwebs called “speedtest.net” (/facepalm) and has discovered that NZ is actually geographically remote and its “bandwidth data” or something is, um, less good than that of someone somewhere else.

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/05/28/advertised-vs-actual-broadband-speed-there-is-a-difference/
    Curran discovers that broadband in South Korea and Japan is faster than in NZ and DEMANDS AN EXPLANATION.

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/07/03/beyond-lol
    Curran, Labour spokesperson for Communications and Information Technology, proclaims that typing “LOL” is silly and that everyone should stop it.

    Do you do Droopol (sp?) tell me. Would you do some stuff for us? #pleasenicely—
    Clare Curran (@clarecurranmp) May 10, 2011

    Curran, Labour spokesperson for Communications and Information Technology, seeks crowd-sourced assistance with Open Source content management framework. Shortly before it was revealed that Labour’s “Droopol” installation was sharing confidential donor information with the entire Internet.

    Oh yeah, there was her hard-hitting poll on Red Alert:

    “Internet speeds: are they fast enough?”

    [ ] YES
    [ ] NO

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/08/10/explaining-netflix-to-simon-power/
    Curran, Labour spokesperson for Communications and Information Technology, lectures Simon Power on this thing she’s discovered called the Internet, informing him that (and I quote) “Bit Torrent is one of the major sites where you go to get content and download it for free (and illegally).”

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/08/22/the-importance-of-being-labour/
    http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/08/22/the-importance-of-being-labour-2/
    Curran posts to Red Alert basically saying “Fuck the fucking Greens, those bastards are stealing left-leaning voters and those votes belong to Labour BY RIGHT.”

    https://twitter.com/#!/clarecurranmp/status/117484871269617664
    Curran goes full retard by accusing Cameron Slater, David Farrar, Matthew Hooton, the Young Nationals, and (this is a verbatim quote) “the non-Labour left” of conspiring together to attack Labour. No shit, she said “the non-Labour left”. So there’s an evil conspiracy against Labour being masterminded by the National Party, right-leaning private citizens, and everyone else in the world who isn’t part of Labour. That’s a pretty big conspiracy, eh.

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/04/14/no-new-zealander-can-be-disconnected-from-the-internet/comment-page-2/#comment-167800
    Curran, Labour spokesperson for Communications and Information Technology, defends the bill which makes NZers guilty upon accusation by opining that it does NOT make NZers guilty upon accusation. In spite of all legal advice to the contrary.

    https://twitter.com/#!/clarecurranmp/status/110122884172759040

    Are there loudness discrepancies found on NZ TV adverts vs progs and if so should they be monitored and a unified national standard created?

    Curran, Labour spokesperson for Communications and Information Technology, decides that the subjective difference between the loudness of TV shows and TV ads is so important as to require monitoring and national standards. For bonus lols: check the datestamp, she decided and proclaimed this DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN. Presumably there was nothing else important going on.

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/2012/06/17/john-keys-ghost-followers/
    Curran, Labour spokesperson for Communications and Information Technology, decides it would be a good use of taxpayers’ money to investigate if John Key’s twitter-follower count is accurate. Seriously.

    Remember, this is a person who thought that of all the issues facing families, workers, and beneficiaries in Dunedin South the most important thing to thrust into the spotlight in Parliament was her support of the Highlanders Super Rugby jersey. Understandable of course, what with it being a taonga with the cultural significance that only comes with not actually existing before 1996 and being manufactured by a German sportswear company in China.

    • QoTViper 42.1

      Epic comment is epic. I’ve long been an avid consumer of Curran’s social media fuckups (and I would dearly love to know how much of her handiwork went into the fucking ridiculous #Labour2012 guidelines) but seeing it all laid out in one go is … epic.

      There’s such an immediate, obvious difference between people who have come to use social media and online engagement “naturally” (usually Gen Ys but not always, and not all Gen Ys are social media geeks) and those who, usually due to working in marketing, are trying to muscle in on the cool new territory. Curran is most definitely in the latter camp.

      • karol 42.1.1

        those who, usually due to working in marketing, are trying to muscle in on the cool new territory. 

        One of my major dislikes.  Every time people put effort into developing excellent communication systems for people to use socially for free, the marketing & biz types want in on the action, thus undermining the initial purpose. 

        • QoTViper 42.1.1.1

          The thing is, I can see how there’s a right way for corporate organisations to use social media. If they’re providing their services or information about their services on a platform where their audience is, kind of thing.

          But then you get the ones who are all “we have to be on Twitter! Because that’s what organisations do!!!” and then they hire marketers who suggest obnoxious things like sponsored ads and then it all goes to shit and the people find a new platform to have their conversations the way they like them.

    • Viper Anne 42.2

      SHG @42
      Lolz lolz lolz and more lolz. And for good measure I’ll do a Spud.

      :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) phew that’ll do. Lady C doesn’t like smiley faces either.

    • Just viping 42.3

      Hilarious report, SHG (not CV)!
      You couldn’t make this shit up.
      LOL-LOL-LOL………

      • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 42.3.1

        It gets worse and goes downhill from there.
        Now poor Clare I know naughty us but she is a symbol for what’s wrong with the labour party, perceived as right of centre and weak disconnected to the community as the last election results portrayed.
        The pizza crew waving signs on street corners do a better job advertising their brand and message.
        A local Maori community service provider recently opened their newly renoed modest premises at a function….was labour there I wonder.

    • dancervipereke 42.4

      LOLOLOLOLOLOL. 

      As QOT said, “epic comment is epic”.  

    • danylmc 42.5

      I also enjoyed it when Idiot Savant criticised Labour on Twitter, and Curran demanded he make atonement by going door-knocking for Labour in South Dunedin.

  43. ColonialPete 43

    If Colonial Viper is reading this, I suggest he make a complaint to the Privacy Commissioner.

    • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 43.1

      Ohhhhh escalation that would cause such severe media and potential poll hit that CV would be demonised and shot at dawn, and if we lose in 2014 cause of any distraction….
      It would play into the Tories smug hands.

      • ColonialPete 43.1.1

        If I were in CV’s position, I would make a complaint right away, consequences be damned. People who engage in what is essentially blackmail do not belong in government.

        • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 43.1.1.1

          Well at least we still able to vote…last freedom in our democratic society…vote em in or down maybe, roll on feb. who know we might have a selection process for some local mp yet come feb too.

        • Colonial Weka 43.1.1.2

          I tend to agree Pete, although I’m not sure how the privacy act would cover this situation. I can’t find a privacy policy on either Red Alert or the main Labour party website :-(

        • Rhinoviper 43.1.1.3

          CV would have my support if they didn’t make a complaint. I’ve been subjected to the analogous situation of workplace bullying in the past, and went through a protracted complaint process. I fully appreciate how how gruelling it can be, how it can leave permanent effects in terms of relationships and health. It’s all very well to say “damn the consequences”, but if CV goes ahead, CV will have to endure the consequences. What they need is the support of other people. That’s why I was in a union and why I’m staying in one.

          Yes, Curran is an utterly vile individual, and that “nice guy” Shearer, by enabling her at the very least, is culpable.

          • Veutoviper 43.1.1.3.1

            +1, Rhino. It is strictly up to CV and the others as to how they handle this. I have also been “there” and know how much it takes at the time and the longer term effects – even if you win at the time. I will respect them – and any decision that they make. They are all people whose comments on here I have appreciated and respected even if I have not necessarily agreed.

            What has amazed me is the number and range of people who have come out in support of CV and the others’ democratic rights to express their views. In fact I have found it quite uplifting and feel that we can work together for the greater good – while respecting that we are not all going to agree all of the time. If we can meld this into something bigger, then there is hope. Lets turn a negative into a positive.

  44. Coronial Typer 44

    Perhaps Dunedin South needs a more active selection process coming up.

    Let’s just dump her and get a better candidate.

    It’s time they figured out the true power of this site.

    And while we’re at it, get that NZCouncil to demand a new Caucus rep as well.

    Fire this useless thing before she requires us to have something stitched on our clothes:
    “Standard Raiser”

    And yeah Claire, you do work for us. Not the other way around.

    We are Labour Party Members!

  45. Binders full of viper- women 45

    Thanks for outing this weirdo. Us Waitakere men hate censorship which is why I migrated over here from red alert cos of the censoring and abuse from a sad lycra 50 something bully.

  46. Matthew 46

    Is there link where one could go to see eveerything thats happened on one page?
    im confused as all hell

    • QoTViper 46.1

      This post by IrishBill:
      http://thestandard.org.nz/just-how-wrong-can-you-get-it/

      This comment by Colonial Viper:
      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-07122012/comment-page-1/#comment-559626

      And thus Vipertacus was born.

      See also this comment for why you should never comment at Red Alert (because as far as Labour/Clare Curran is concerned, “Open Government” means “we demand transparency of the government while in opposition but deny basic freedom of expression to people who disagree with us”)
      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-07122012/comment-page-1/#comment-559704

    • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 46.2

      A summary if I may be so bold…
      CV and a few others so far have been nobbled by either direct approach and or complaint to labour party HQ, by um well a unnamed labour MP, about their online blogging so have gone into hiding so to speak, apart from the odd beer or two with his mates. Virtual and otherwise.
      Then behold the true and bold on here stood up in solidarity and did a grand show of support via the name game thing.
      Now the game is up and the call has gone out far and wide. Sharpen your pen sword as it would seem blogging members are for the chop or knife.
      My take wheel within wheel within another wheel as the party members find there voice and demand meaningful and directional change and this is causing discomfort to the ruling labour elite.

  47. Mongoose 47

    Wow, some pretty strong hating going on on this page. Whatever your perception of some Labour MPs and your own ideals, just remember you are talking about/hating on another human being here, and as we have seen recently in the UK, disparagement of others can have nasty consequences.
    Are you all so absolutely sure of your claims, accusations? Sure hope so.
    Just noticing and just saying.

    • MrV 47.1

      Not dubbed the hate blog for no reason.

    • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 47.2

      Ohhhhhh very good point, thanks for that mongoose.
      Angst – actually from my understanding CC doesn’t need any more pressure…forgot about that.

    • BM 47.3

      Civil war

      • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 47.3.1

        Well cc won selection by one floor vote it would seem, I was sick that day and could not make it, got some flack for that one my bad.
        I hate hate hate the Tories and this evil system that shackles the people to provide wealth to avert few.
        We need each and every electorate to provide the maxamum amount of party votes come election time. We need unity and connective ness and a modern operational approach to systematically lockin voters now now one not in two years time.

        This election starts now for the LP but we need strong caucus and strong policy, we need motivated and strong activist who have a plan to get the message out.
        Bold thinking is needed now…

    • QoTViper 47.4

      Oh, fuck off. We’re criticising the actions of a person. Shitty actions, pointless actions, destructive actions, and you want to fucking guilt-trip us by associating blog comments with driving people to suicide?

      I say again: fuck off.

  48. Ennui in Requiem Mass for CV 48

    Here in Purgatory we sing songs to sooth the soul of CV. We also have the devils lining up to punish his oppressors: so cut the bollocks please, wont somebody name and shame the guilty party please in full detail, technicolor with damning evidence.

    • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 48.1

      Hersay from those directly involved and a blogger on Michael winters blog stating they have seen the letter should be enough….
      One peasant to another “what’s that smell”
      Oh that the elites they are revolting.

    • Drakula 48.2

      “Ennui in Requiem Mass for CV” I like it keep up the support !!!!

  49. lurgee 49

    Has anyone seen any evidence to establish what CV is saying is actually A Real Thing and (if it is) looked at both sides of the story? It wouldn’t be the first time in history that someone has decided it is more fun to be the news, rather than just comment on it.

    Worth while pausing and reflecting before we break out the torches and pitchforks, perhaps?

    • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 49.1

      You mean private conversations and a letter From the caucus rep….only hearsay.

      • lurgee 49.1.1

        I have no idea. Nor, I suspect, do most of the infant vipers squirming about here. But I see a lot of people running very fast in one direction, shouting “Burn the Witch!” and that’s usually not a good thing.

        • Neoleftie friend in arms of cv 49.1.1.1

          It would seem that we are the red red witches and they wana burn us one by one at the steak…BBQ

  50. Jester 50

    Is this guy for real? He is got to be taking the piss.

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/2012/12/09/sunday-sport-omnishambles/

    • rosy 50.1

      I sort of hope that it’s clever, but really he can’t see that the Labour caucus is NZ Cricket.

    • fender/same sentiment less eloquent Viper 50.2

      I wasn’t aware G.Robertson was the Henry Blofeld of the Beehive.

      He better place Clare Curren in the silly-mid-off fielding position, oh too late.

    • mac1 50.3

      Mmmm….. cricket.

      A team game where the captain makes the decisions supported by loyal players, a game plan is followed by bowlers and fielders when the opposition is batting and by the batsmen when their turn is to bat even at the cost of sacrificing their wickets for the good of the team, different skill sets are exercised by various players from a variety of backgrounds, with the same basic rules applying to both sides.

      Each team tends to have ardent followers and trenchant critics, especially when the team is not playing well. Individual players can be also criticised for uneven performances even at a distance from the game and with little knowledge by the critics of the playing conditions, captain’s instructions and the basis for his decisions.

      Ground staff, umpires, coaches, selectors can also be held accountable reasonably or unreasonably by dissatisfied fans.

      Especially known for bias and favouritism are commentators and sports writers. Some have even been accused of interviewing their own typewriters.

      Generally, the critics most informed are those who turn up for the actual game, sit on the boundary and watch the action, knowledgeably. Some even keep scoring books.

      Some, however, don’t watch matches, and even support other teams. Others only support their team when it is winning. Others again know that cricket is most of all a confidence game where players are easily distracted by sledging and barracking.

      A few even run betting schemes and try to influence the play by match fixing and improper use of appeals and review authorities.

      Lastly, most of the public take a slight interest in the game at peak times when important tests are being played and for the rest of the time follow other sports, if at all.

      And some say cricket has no relevance to life.

  51. Drakula 51

    Sorry; I have been a bit out of touch, I have just read the above and No Right Turn’s take on this and he was brilliantly succinct as usual. I say to CV don’t be intimidated, stand tall and if this bitch insists on her bullying tactics then threaten to DEFECT! EN MASS ! There is always the Greens and the Mana Party.

    I am a Greenie but having said that I am getting disillusioned with the partisan political system and I will explain why. It has one fundamental weakness; it focuses on personalities rather than the issues which is why it is very easy for ‘business groups’ to infiltrate a number of parties.

    Remember politicians don’t like referendums and the neo liberals have had headaches infiltrating the Swiss system.

    • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 51.1

      Well I for one have a end goal. Unity and a solid leadership team with members in support taking it to the street to get the vote in

  52. Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 52

    Yes he most certainly is for real mate.
    He is quite well rounded for a pollie just like Lange was too.
    Hmmmm Lange was betrayed by the right bush wackers too.

    • Drakula 52.1

      Yes I remember that but I didn’t feel that sorry for Lange because a few years earlier when Labour was in opposition Douglas was sacked by Rowling! Remember? Lange should have learnt from that but Oh no Douglas and Prebble were dangling the golden grail of power to get rid of Muldoon.
      Strange I remember that better tan last week.

    • Neoleftie friend in arms of cv 52.2

      Um talking about Robertson there…well rounded.

  53. Greg M, the Ex Navy viper 53

    This whole situation is appalling. While I hardly ever agree with CV, his writings are always well considered and well written. Someone needs to give a certain south Dunedin MP a swift kick up the slats. Anyone that thinks muzzling genuine criticism and robust discussion is a help to democracy, needs to stand aside. I respect CV’s, and Millsy’s comments and I look forward to their early return to these pages.
    Greg.

    • SHG (not Colonial Viper) 53.1

      his writings are always well considered and well written

      Bollocks, he’s a frickin’ lunatic. Half the time arguing with him is like talking to a religious nut with his fingers in his ears chanting “lalalala can’t hear you Jesus Jesus Jesus”.

      But that’s entirely beyond the point. To have been threatened with naming and shaming for posts made pseudonymously on one site by person(s) who have access to logs of posts made on another is disgusting.

      I don’t care if he’s a drooling halfwit or Thomas Aquinas, Colonial Viper is now “us” and those threatening him are now “them”.

      To have inspired in me feelings of solidarity with Colonial Viper is yet another crime to add to the list for which the current Labour management cabal should be held accountable.

  54. burt - Viper without the rose tinded glasses 54

    Get some balance CV, but don’t loose your passion.

  55. xtasy 55

    I have so far resisted to get “vipered”, am not intending to “viporise”, but am impressed by this convincing viper passion shown in this thread. It will surely send a message “home”, wherever that may be in future.

  56. Blue 56

    Just read about CV. Did this seriously happen? Clare Curran is one of the electorate MP’s down here and is not well liked, lost the party vote to National in a strong Labour seat. I don’t agree with much (anything?) CV has to say, but his right to say it in anonymity needs to be protected. The fact that Curran beleives she should ‘out’ him, to exert control over the message is the lowest form of censorship. What a scumbag.

  57. Treetop 57

    I am left wondering that if by association in agreeing with CV when he blogged regarding the Labour leadership that in future when I correspond with a labour MP on a matter of complaint unrelated to the leadership, that I will be treated in a different manner (marked for pay back) than I have formerly been treated.

  58. Richard Down South (Will wingman for CV) 58

    Labour need to pull their head out of their you know where, and im a long time Labour supporter :/

  59. Assviper 59

    Poor show all round really…….

  60. Huginn all God's Vipers 60

    I’m really struggling with this. If Claire Curran did this, then she should have known better.
    But if she did, then I wouldn’t be surprised.

    Her stupId idea that she could moderate National’s ammendments to the Copyright Act by ‘working from the inside’ and effectivrly supporting them caused a huge shift of young voters to the Greens.

    Her Red Alert posts are unreadably long winded. She doesn’t seem to get the Interweb at all.

  61. twist 61

    Well you can all read her response
    Notice the parts where she says “not at any point have I sought disciplinay action against any indvidual” & ‘she had not used individual names’ & that CV had identified themself
    You guys at the standard are pretty good at organising a witch hunt. There is always more to hearsay than meets the eye.
    [Bunji: fixed link]

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    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
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    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
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