ImperatorFish: A statement from the Israel Defence Force

81 comments on “ImperatorFish: A statement from the Israel Defence Force ”

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1. vto 1

   5 August 2014 at 8:28 am

   So now that the Jewish army is pulling back a little, what is to happen to the 1.8million people there?

   The Israelis bombed their power station.
   The Israelis calorie-count the amount of food let through the blockade thereby starving them.
   The Israelis keep their economy in ruin.
   The Israelis don’t let people out or in.
   The Israelis have bombed their homes.

   You know, what the Israelis have done imo is shat all over their remaining credibility in the world. A gigantic stinking shit has been laid oozing all over their heads and now they stink.

   Netanyahu is a deeply unwise man.
   • Colonial Viper 1.1

     5 August 2014 at 8:56 am

     Old news now but:

     Wikileaks cable: deliberate Israeli effort to push Gaza to edge of collapse and keep economy at lowest functioning level

     http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40926651/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/t/israel-pushed-gaza-brink-collapse-wikileaks/
   • Roy 1.2

     5 August 2014 at 10:42 am

     A couple of additions:
     With the power station being out of operation, Gaza’s supply of potable water is in grave jeopardy.
     Israel has also bombed hospitals.
     • tricledrown 1.2.1

       5 August 2014 at 10:46 am

       and UN schools
       • tricledrown 1.2.1.1

         5 August 2014 at 11:13 am

         If the only example of life for Israeli’s has been persecution then they are like a dysfunctional family when the next generation becomes the abuser!
         Thats the way it seems to me the Gaza strip has become like the Warsaw ghetto Israel has become like its oppressors!
         The British are largely responsible for the mess that’s the middle east the meddling of the British Empire in the Middle East has lead to today’s conflict.
         WWI the British did a deal with the Arabs that allowed the Arabs control over Palestine to bring the the Arabs onside with the British and undermine the Ottoman empire .
         After WW2 the British handed Palestine to the Jews to live in peace alongside the Arabs after 3 years of fighting.
         Hitler tried to ferment Trouble by extraditing German Jews to Palestine from 1933 onwards to try and get the Arabs onside as he needed Arab Oil to run his war machine .
         for the prior 2,000 years and in the future this festering sore fostered by religious fanaticism will never bee healed.
         ie Monty Python life of Brian.
         While their is an unequal balance of power at the moment Israel is making a big mistake if it thinks it can Bully a complete Race into submission .
         You just have to look at Iraq and Afghanistan if super power and all its allies can’t control these countries Israel is doomed to failure unless it uses its Nuclear weapons but then Pakistan and Iran will retaliate eventually.
         Israel may have ascendency in Gaza but this is only fermenting more Islamic radicalism an we are going to pay the price in New Zealand with higher oil prices which will put most of the western world back into recession along with Russia who will stop Oil and Gas exports!
         Tough Times ahead!
         • Gosman 1.2.1.1.1

           5 August 2014 at 12:06 pm

           So many half truths there you might even think you knew something about what you were discussing.
           • North 1.2.1.1.1.1

             5 August 2014 at 3:18 pm

             Grossman – if you have an ounce of intellectual honesty and more, human decency, you must identify the half-truths you claim in Tricledrown’s comment AND demonstrate HOW they are half-truths.

             Alternatively you may choose to remain at a distance squawking a cacophany of love cries for NatziYahoo and Zionist Exceptionalism.
             • Gosman …

               5 August 2014 at 4:47 pm

               The British never did a deal with the Arabs allowing them control over Palestine. They did agree to support Arab nationalism and allow the Arabs control in Arab lands but the extent of those lands were not fully defined.

               Nazi Germany had little to do with Palestine beyond sponsoring and providing a safe haven to the Mufti of Jerusalem. Certainly there was no real official policy of sending Jews from German controlled areas to Palestine.

               Nazi Germany did not rely on Arab oil but on Rumania oil. The British and Americams controlled the oil from Arab nations pre and during WWII.

               The rest if the Arab world has been conspicuous by it’s absence over the current Gaza conflict. Certainly there is no indication that they are threatening an oil boycott of nations that they have deemed to be supporting Israel.

               Finally Israel has since it’s conception in 1948 has fought for it’s place amongst hostile Arab peoples who outnumber them many times and has been very successful. The Jews of Palestine don’t have any other place that they can go where they would feel safe so it is unlikely they will be forced in to giving up their right to a homeland without a massive struggle.
               • vto …

                 5 August 2014 at 9:10 pm

                 “The Jews of Palestine don’t have any other place that they can go where they would feel safe so it is unlikely they will be forced in to giving up their right to a homeland without a massive struggle.”

                 ” The Palestinians of Palestine don’t have any other place that they can go where they would feel safe so it is unlikely they will be forced in to giving up their right to a homeland without a massive struggle.”
                 • Gosman …

                   5 August 2014 at 10:53 pm

                   Really??? That would be like stating the French in Algeria or the British in Zimbabwe had nowhere to go.
                   • tricledrown …

                     5 August 2014 at 11:00 pm

                     goose again the Arab vs Jew battle has been going on for over 2,000 years Zimbabwe and Algeria less than a couple of hundred.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     5 August 2014 at 11:22 pm

                     And Arabs and Jews have spent centuries at a time getting on in that region, living, trading, inter-marrying and generally getting on with life and society.
2. Tautoko Viper 2

   5 August 2014 at 8:37 am

   The email I received in reply to my email to the Israeli Embassy has strong similarities to the post above.
   There was a complaint about the bias of the reporting.

   “The world media and public opinion (which was silent whilst thousands of Syrians were massacred by their brothers) has suddenly rushed to condemn Israel’s defensive acts. However, the media has been very biased in its reporting. Here is a list of social media channels which can be of use as a reliable source of information:

   https://www.facebook.com/IsraelinNewZealand

   https://www.facebook.com/IsraelMFA

   https://twitter.com/IsraelMFA ”
   I presume that the sites referred to above are supposed to be unbiased.
   • Roy 2.1

     5 August 2014 at 10:44 am

     The world has not been silent about Syria.
3. ianmac 3

   5 August 2014 at 9:34 am

   Trouble is Imperator Fish often writes so close to the actual reports. As this one shows it is so close to what the Israelis actually say that it might be just the essence of their responses to their unforgivable attacks.
   Surely there must be many decent ordinary Israelis who would be equally upset at the death and destruction that their USA equipped army afflicts on a severely diminished Palestine?
   • Anne 3.1

     5 August 2014 at 9:50 am

     Surely there must be many decent ordinary Israelis who would be equally upset at the death and destruction that their USA equipped army afflicts on a severely diminished Palestine?

     Of course there is. But like the many Germans in the 1930s who hated Hitler and his gang of thugs, they dare not raise their heads above the parapet.
     • Gosman 3.1.1

       5 August 2014 at 10:12 am

       Israel has a vigorous anti-war lobby.
       • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1

         5 August 2014 at 11:24 am

         Which is currently being violently intimidated by right wingers.
         • Gosman 3.1.1.1.1

           5 August 2014 at 12:00 pm

           Do they not have the same protection under the laws in Israel as everyone else?
           • vto 3.1.1.1.1.1

             5 August 2014 at 12:07 pm

             wtf does that have to do with it?
       • swordfish 3.1.1.2

         5 August 2014 at 12:21 pm

         @ Gossie: “Israel has a vigorous anti-war lobby.”

         @ ianmac: “surely there must be many decent ordinary Israelis who would be equally upset at the death and destruction that their USA equipped army afflicts on a severely diminished Palestine ?”

         @ Anne: “Of course there is. But….they dare not raise their heads above the parapet.”

         Nope. Polls show something like 90% of Israelis fully support the current bloodbath in Gaza.
         And the poll figures were very similar for Israel’s previous massacre in Gaza in late 08/early 09 and for its carpet-bombing of Lebanon in 2006.

         The true anti-war lobby in Israel is tiny (representing no more than 2-3% of the population). The mainstream PEACE NOW movement is little more than a charade, closely affiliated with the Israeli Labour Party (which, of course, has at least as bad a record in violently extending the Occupation as the Likudnik Right). PEACE NOW is always more than happy to cheerlead these regular Israeli massacres – whether they be of Palestinians in Gaza, Palestinians in the West Bank, or both Lebanese civilians and Palestinian Refugees in Lebanon.

         I think people need to get out of the habit of blaming everything solely on Netanyahu and the military elite and the Israeli political Right. It’s much more about an implicitly-racist and Sparta-like mindset that’s been fundamental to the whole Zionist project for many decades now. The blame needs to be spread much more broadly – supposed “peaceniks” like Labour’s Rabin, Peres and Barak have been just as complicit in the violence and ethnic-cleansing as the Netanyahu Right.

         I suspect some on the Left make the mistake of thinking it might seem “anti-Semitic” unless they restrict their blame to certain elites. But, like I say, you need to look at the extreme ethno-nationalist mindset inculcated into Israelis from a young age. People would do well to remember that Zionism derives from precisely the same deeply reactionary ideological mix (19C East European Romantic Nationalism/German Imperialism) that so inspired and animated the Nazis. Racism and ethnic-cleansing are absolutely inherent to the ethos.
         • Anne 3.1.1.2.1

           5 August 2014 at 3:09 pm

           I suspect some on the Left make the mistake of thinking it might seem “anti-Semitic” unless they restrict their blame to certain elites.

           Yes. I was accused of anti-semitism by Pop1 because I likened the current Israeli culture to that of their oppressors in the 1930s.

           My knowledge of the Israeli situation as it is today is somewhat wanting I grant you swordship. But I do recall contact with Jewish people in the 1960s and early 1970s as a young woman on her OE. There appeared to be a sizable anti-war lobby group within Israel, but I guess over time they have lost out to the present day war-mongers. Given that they are no doubt subjected to daily pro-war propaganda by their government it’s not surprising.
           • AmaKiwi 3.1.1.2.1.1

             5 August 2014 at 6:43 pm

             There was a sizable anti-Nazi group in Germany in the 1930’s, my gentile grandfather included.

             Those who were not killed or imprisoned shut up when they saw what the price could be for speaking out.

             P.S. The Warsaw ghetto Jews dug tunnels, just like the Gaza ghetto Jews.
             • swordfish …

               5 August 2014 at 8:19 pm

               Yeah, actually last year I read quite extensively about the German Resistance to the Nazis. It was particularly strong in Berlin and Hamburg and especially among German Communists, other Leftist groups and also some very heroic Left-leaning individuals.

               Of course, in the Cold War climate, from the late 40s to the late 80s, all we ever heard about was the conservative, mainstream Right and Christian minority of German Resistance activists. The fact is: the Left were far more numerous, important and influential.

               The awful thing was that when just one of these many groups / cells went a little too far (carrying out high-profile but ultimately pointless operations like bombing some Nazi exhibition in Berlin), then the Nazis would institute a crackdown, devoting the full resources of the Nazi State to infiltrating Resistance organisations throughout Germany. That happened particularly in the late 30s and during the War. And so groups and cells that had been doing useful low profile work for years and years, often since the Nazis first took over, were suddenly destroyed and their leaders and activists tortured and executed.

               But some really courageous Leftists, including a whole series of university students in their late teens and early 20s. So many of them ultimately caught and executed.

               They reckon about 60,000 Gentile Berliners helped Berlin Jews go underground to avoid what became The Nazi Holocaust. A minority of them were doing it purely for the money, essentially blackmailing desperate Jewish people, rather than doing it out of any kind of morality or basic human sympathy. But a significant majority of this 60k, were indeed acting on either Socialist or Christian principles. Anti-Semitism was always weak among the bulk of SDP and Communist voters and Berlin was a particularly Left-Wing City.
           • swordfish 3.1.1.2.1.2

             5 August 2014 at 7:55 pm

             Cheers, Anne. I wasn’t intending my comment to be quite as blunt as it appears. Re-reading it, there seems to be an unfortunate hectoring tone underlying it, like some sort of pompous know-it-all lecturing everyone, complete with wagging finger. Sorry about that.

             It would be true to say that, up until the Second Intifada, Israeli society was generally divided into thirds – one third supporting a withdrawal from Occupied Palestinian territory (although not all of them necessarily supporting a full withdrawal predicated upon International Law), one third adamantly opposed to any sort of withdrawal, instead advocating an extension and entrenchment of the Occupation, and the final third being purely pragmatic – quite happy to continue the Occupation indefinitely if it could be done without any unpleasant repercussions for Israel, but equally sanguine about a withdrawal if the circumstances meant that would be more beneficial for Israel, whichever made life easier for them.

             But there certainly has been a swing to the Right in Israel over the last decade or so (partly, though by no means only, due to changing demographics). It’s just that the true peace camp – those who believed in a full Israeli withdrawal according to International Law and who opposed Israel’s regular violence/massacres/carpet-bombing – were always a small sub-set of that broader one third “Peace Camp”.
             • Anne …

               5 August 2014 at 8:11 pm

               I have a vague recollection there was an Israeli election in the 1970s where the big election issue was the withdrawal (or otherwise) of the West Bank/Gaza strip. It was closely fought by both sides but the right-wing Likud Party won out in the end. If my memory is not faulty, that would have been Israel’s defining moment. It could have gone the other way, and if that had happened it’s possible Israel would not be fighting the Palestinians today.
               • Anne …

                 5 August 2014 at 8:21 pm

                 Won’t let me edit.

                 From wikipedia:

                 Likud (Hebrew: הַלִּיכּוּד, translit. HaLikud, lit. The Consolidation) is the major right-wing political party[10][11] in Israel. It was founded in 1973 by Menachem Begin in an alliance with several right-wing and liberal parties. Likud’s victory in the 1977 elections was a major turning point in the country’s political history, marking the first time the left had lost power.

                 It must have been the 1977 election.
         • Vicky32 3.1.1.2.2

           5 August 2014 at 5:47 pm

           “Nope. Polls show something like 90% of Israelis fully support the current bloodbath in Gaza.
           And the poll figures were very similar for Israel’s previous massacre in Gaza in late 08/early 09 and for its carpet-bombing of Lebanon in 2006.”

           Oh how I wish that wasn’t true…
           Vicky
         • Chooky 3.1.1.2.3

           5 August 2014 at 7:44 pm

           @ swordfish ..re …”Zionism derives from precisely the same deeply reactionary ideological mix (19C East European Romantic Nationalism/German Imperialism) that so inspired and animated the Nazis. Racism and ethnic-cleansing are absolutely inherent to the ethos.”

           ….you could also add to that mix/rationale the Old Testament concept of the Israelites God’s “the chosen” people …..and the similarities with the Nazi concept of a “master race”

           …ie eugenics …ie concepts of superior genes as in the late 19th century and early 20th century

           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

           “The methods of implementing eugenics varied by country; however, some of the early 20th century methods involved identifying and classifying individuals and their families, including the poor, mentally ill, blind, deaf, developmentally disabled, promiscuous women, homosexuals, and racial groups (such as the Roma and Jews in Nazi Germany) as “degenerate” or “unfit”, the segregation or institutionalization of such individuals and groups, their sterilization, euthanasia, and their mass murder.[13] The practice of euthanasia was carried out on hospital patients in the Aktion T4 centers such as Hartheim Castle.”
   • Roy 3.2

     5 August 2014 at 10:45 am

     Really good satire is often very close to the real situation. 🙁
4. Gosman 4

   5 August 2014 at 10:19 am

   Whilst this is all very good from a satirical point of view can we attempt to have a proper grown up debate about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without grotesque contortions of the issue in to a cartoonish world of black and white and good versus evil?
   • Anne 4.1

     5 August 2014 at 10:25 am

     Yes Gosman but with the hysteria that always surrounds warmongering activity, most are probably keeping their heads down. We’re certainly not hearing about them, but that might be because of government initiated censorship.
     • Gosman 4.1.1

       5 August 2014 at 10:32 am

       You have evidence of heavy handed Israeli censorship?
       • Anne 4.1.1.1

         5 August 2014 at 11:00 am

         Of course not. You have no proof there is no censorship either.

         I was actually having a ‘grown-up’ discussion with you Gosman. In these situations those who oppose their government’s actions are aware of what might happen to them if they stand up and express their opposition too loudly.
         • Gosman 4.1.1.1.1

           5 August 2014 at 11:22 am

           If you want a grown up discussion on this I suggest you don’t make allegations one way or the other about what one side does without some sort of evidence. The Israelis do this in relation to Hamas storing arms in or using civilian locations such as schools as bases. Just as you would expect somone making such a bold claim to back it up so you should expect to be asked to back up claims of heavy handed censorship of opinion in Israel.
           • Anne 4.1.1.1.1.1

             5 August 2014 at 3:18 pm

             You righties are the ones who make the bold claims. Either that or you can’t read properly. You claim I made claims of heavy handed censorship of opinion in Israel. What I said was … that might be because of government initiated censorship.

             Not exactly a bold claim of heavy-handed censorship. You chose to interpret it that way for your own purpose.
         • Tracey 4.1.1.1.2

           5 August 2014 at 12:15 pm

           If you want a grown up cdiscussion with gosman you need to agree with anything he writes.
           • Gosman 4.1.1.1.2.1

             5 August 2014 at 1:23 pm

             Not at all especially on a topic as complex and emotive as the Israel-Palestine conflict.
   • tricledrown 4.2

     5 August 2014 at 10:45 am

     Goose like your childish defence of failed economic policy
     • Gosman 4.2.1

       5 August 2014 at 11:26 am

       Slightly off topic don’t you think.
   • North 4.3

     5 August 2014 at 3:53 pm

     In which “proper grown up debate” you can deploy your shocking intellectual dishonesty Grossman ? And where you can attempt to conceal that you are an up-to-your-neck protagonist of the fascist Israeli rogue-state and the psychopathic NatziYahoo.

     In the interests of the “proper grown up debate” you plead for, please identify the half-truths you attribute to Tricledrown’s comment @ 1.2.1.1, and detail how these alleged half-truths are in fact of that character. That would be a good start.

     You may (probably will) choose to sit at a distance squawking cries of love for the fascist Israeli rogue-state and the psychopathic NatziYahoo. In which case enough of your bullshit persona of the ‘seriously learned gentleman’ calling for “proper grown up debate”.
     • Gosman 4.3.1

       5 August 2014 at 4:11 pm

       Thanks for highlighting the problem some on the left have with dealing with this issue in a grown up and sensible manner. Your attitude would not lead to any resolution of the conflict but merely strengthen Israeli instrangience. You are not going to convince enough people in positions of power around the world to place the sort of pressure that would get Israel to cave in (assuming they would anyway) with that view. Of course you yourself will feel morally superior on this topic and will tall your hard core leftist mates how great it is to stand in solidarity with the oppressed Palestinians.
       • North 4.3.1.1

         5 August 2014 at 5:19 pm

         Piss off with your condescension Grossman. It’s no more than an element of your love squawks for Nazis in any event.

         Even if standing in solidarity with an oppressed people, people in the sights of NatziYahoo, you and yours, even if that is of no immediate efficacy, it is where I and vast numbers worldwide sit. In diametric contrast to the dark place inhabited by NatziYahoo, you, and yours.

         And please, instead of your unedifying condescenion, respond to Tricledrown @ 1.2.1.1. C’mon. Demonstrate how his comment is full of the half-truths you claim. Back yourself up you seriously learned gentlemen.
       • Murray Olsen 4.3.1.2

         6 August 2014 at 12:23 am

         Goosemann – did you cut and paste them from something you said about South Africa in 1971? I remember when every moran was saying we had to build bridges, the whites were too wealthy and powerful, they were a bastion against Communism, and their real reason “We don’t like blecks.”

         Funnily enough, apartheid disappeared, despite the best efforts of that AWB fool who fell of his horse. He was bad, but nowhere near as bad as Likud.
   • Stuart Munro 4.4

     5 August 2014 at 9:36 pm

     “Can we attempt to have a proper grown up debate.”

     Not with you mate. Maybe when you grow up.
5. Colonial Viper 5

   5 August 2014 at 11:31 am

   Like a cartoon I saw: Israel wants everything. Unfortunately in some places, there are Palestinians on top of these things.
   • Gosman 5.1

     5 August 2014 at 12:04 pm

     Umm it was only a cartoon. Israel quite plainly doesn’t want everything otherwise they would have occupied the entire Gaza Strip and not be looking to withdraw at some stage.
     • Colonial Viper 5.1.1

       5 August 2014 at 1:16 pm

       It’s a process over decades Gosman. Compare the 1947 borders to today. Making Gaza unlivable so people clamber to leave. 20% or less of Palestine is left and it is all under Israeli lock down and blockade at the best of times.
       • Gosman 5.1.1.1

         5 August 2014 at 1:40 pm

         Which would make sense if Israel hadn’t voluntarily given up occupied land in the past. There is nothing stopping the Israeli military occupying the entire Gaza strip if they wanted to. They just have no desire to do it.
         • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.1

           5 August 2014 at 1:57 pm

           What occupied land have they given up in the past? What year are you pointing to that Israelis weren’t illegally settling Palestinian land?

           There is nothing stopping the Israeli military occupying the entire Gaza strip if they wanted to.

           They don’t want to occupy it. They want it, and they want the Palestinians off it. Its ethnic cleansing. Like wiping of the map over 500 Palestinian cities and towns 1947-1948.
           • Gosman 5.1.1.1.1.1

             5 August 2014 at 2:19 pm

             The Sinai and Southern Lebanon plus the Gaza Strip.

             As for wiping out the Palestinians, they could have cleared them out in 1967 if they had that as their end goal.
             • North …

               5 August 2014 at 4:22 pm

               Brilliant illogic, ignorance, and squawks of love for NatziYahoo and the fascist rogue-state of Israel there Grossman !

               Israel’s destruction of Gaza and the West Bank, genocidal ‘cleansing’, terror and torture is undertaken incrementally to limit world backlash and more particularly backlash from the paymasters of its paymaster the US government, viz. US taxpayers.

               They wouldn’t want to jeopardise $US 3,000,000,000 (three billion) of ongoing annual military funding now would they ? They’d never finish the job.

               http://rt.com/news/israel-gaza-hamas-war-103/

               Seems like any facile bullshit line is good enough for you midst your sqawks of love Grossman.
               • Gosman …

                 5 August 2014 at 4:54 pm

                 How is it being undertaken incrementally when they controlled the Gaza Strip from 1967 through to the late 2000’s?
                 • North …

                   5 August 2014 at 5:59 pm

                   Are you truly that stupid as to ask that Grossman ? Incremental because to seek to do the job in one fell swoop could threaten Israel’s very existence. Reread my comment above.

                   Instances of release of the stranglehold mean nothing when Israel effectively controls Gaza, the West Bank, everything Palestinian. ‘Slowly slowly catch the monkey’ ensures the ultimate march to genocide.

                   That at the highest levels genocide IS on the Zionist-Nazi table is undoubted.

                   http://rt.com/news/israel-gaza-hamas-war-103/
             • swordfish …

               5 August 2014 at 11:03 pm

               @ Gossie, your on-going gibberish can be disposed of quite easily…….

               (1) The Sinai – Israel was, of course, forced to give up the Sinai after Egypt gave it a bloody nose in the 1973 Arab-Israeli War. Israel’s leading military historians accept that the October War radically changed the whole political and psychological balance in the Middle East to Israel’s disadvantage. Some have gone as far as to suggest Israel suffered from a massive post-war trauma. After Egypt comes mighty close to whopping Israel’s ass, all of that post-67 Israeli triumphalism and determination to permanently settle the Sinai and its casual – almost scoffing – rejection of Egypt’s and the UN’s peace overtures flies completely out the window. The Country went from an exaggerated arrogance to a fundamental lack of confidence within weeks.

               Israel’s near loss in 1973 had also significantly enhanced the prospect of another round of hostilities – with Israel’s tacit “victory” at best uncertain. So under these new conditions, Israel was forced, against its will, to move towards a political settlement with the one Arab power that was clearly capable of giving it a bloody nose.

               But equally importantly, the obvious strength of the Egyptians in the October 73 War forced US policymakers to rethink the prevailing attitude in Washington. As a result, the US, really for the first time, began to commit its diplomatic resources to search for a political settlement. Or, to put it another way, in order to count, you had to be able to speak the language of force. And that’s just what Egypt had done. The US aim essentially became to neutralise Egypt. Hence, it began to join the UN in putting significant pressure on Israel to reach a compromise.

               That’s what forced Israel to finally make the fundamental concession at Camp David to withdraw (having refused to withdraw since 67) – the breakthrough not of Sadat’s journey to Jerusalem (the official Israeli version) but the breakthrough of Egyptian troops in 1973 and its diplomatic aftermath.

               However, even then Israel continued to haggle until the very end to retain parts of the Sinai. Despite formally agreeing to restore Egypt’s sovereignty, it strenuously sought to maintain control of its newly-built Sinai settlements, along with the airfields and oil refineries it had built over the previous 10 years. All of which led to some intense and often extremely bitter negotiations at Camp David in 1978.

               (2) South Lebanon – Once again, Israel was militarily forced to withdraw. It certainly didn’t do so voluntarily. Hezbollah forced Israel to end its violent 22-year occupation of South Lebanon in 2000. Hezbollah fought a very impressive guerrilla war against a far larger occupying power, turning Israel’s Lebanon occupation into what more than one commentator suggested was “Israel’s Vietnam”. An unwinnable war with escalating casualties, more than 1000 IDF soldiers killed according to some estimates. In the end, Israel was forced into a chaotic retreat (with both the IDF and its proxy Lebanese militia (the SLA) and the latter’s families fleeing headlong to crossings all along the border).

               All of which, in turn, severely weakened the perception of Israel’s military superiority, ultimately resulting in Israel’s carpet-bombing of Lebanon in 2006 (killing more than 1200 Lebanese, most – as always with the IDF – civilians) as it sought to restore what it calls its “deterrence capacity”. The humiliation of its forced withdrawal in 2000 still burns.

               (3) Gaza – Sharon’s real goal in pulling the small number of settlers (around 8,000) out of Gaza in 05 was candidly admitted by one of his advisors, Dov Weisglass.

               As Weisglass happily conceded to the Israeli Press, the objective behind Israel’s “disengagement” from Gaza was to silence the growing pressure from the International community to come to a proper peace agreement with the Palestinians and thus, as Weisglass boasted, to firmly place the “peace process” in “formaldehyde”. Withdrawal from Gaza would not only save the IDF the hassle of having to look after the tiny number of Jewish Settlers (for example, ensuring they received more than 50% of Gaza’s water resources, despite comprising a tiny – and, of course, illegal – minority of the territory’s population) but, more importantly, the goodwill generated within the international community would also allow Israel the political space it needed to continue its expansion of the vast array of illegal Jewish settlements on the Occupied West Bank with impunity, a far greater prize than a few measly, expensive-to-run communities in Gaza.

               And, of course, the beauty of the plan was that Israel continued to maintain absolute control over Gaza’s land borders, coastline and airspace and the IDF continues, as we’re presently witnessing once again, to enter Gaza at will. Hence, under International Law, Gaza is still considered to be Occupied by Israel. The withdrawal therefore simply reinforced the occupation of Palestinian land by making it much more economically and (at least in Israeli eyes) diplomatically viable.

               Gaza remains very much an imprisoned enclave, suffering what UN envoys (eg former Irish President, Mary Robinson) have described as a massive humanitarian crisis created by both Israel’s crippling sanctions and, of course, its on-going tendency to bomb the living hell out of the place on a routine basis – more than 1300 Gazans in 08/09, more than 1800 this time (always overwhelmingly civilian and disproportionately children).

               As another of Sharon’s close advisors, Arnon Sofer, smirked at the time of the withdrawal in 2005, “……when 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to become a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today…”, before going on to say that “we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day.”

               And here’s Weisglass, once again, on Israel’s Gaza sanction regime, restricting food, medicine, electricity and water, “The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger.”
               • Colonial Viper …

                 5 August 2014 at 11:27 pm

                 Thanks for the backgrounder.
     • AmaKiwi 5.1.2

       5 August 2014 at 6:52 pm

       Gosman, it is NOT the Gaza strip, it is the Gaza ghetto.

       This is genocide, slow genocide over the course of several generations.

       The Israeli “final solution” is not to kill all the Palestinians. It is to gradually force all of them out of Israeli occupied territories. It is a war crime to force a conquered people off their lands and replace them with your own.
6. swordfish 6

   5 August 2014 at 11:51 am

   Excellent succinct video on Israel’s Disinformation Campaign. How Israel’s explanation for the causes of its current bloodbath just keep on changing.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksk3Q7gu0BI&list=UUV3Nm3T-XAgVhKH9jT0ViRg&feature=player_embedded
7. joe90 7

   5 August 2014 at 2:01 pm

   More slippage.

   .
   I particularly like points 5-7. Let’s take a look, shall we?

   Conquer – After the IDF completes the “softening” of the targets with its fire-power, the IDF will conquer the entire Gaza, using all the means necessary to minimize any harm to our soldiers, with no other considerations.

   Pretty straightforward conquering, unlimited by any humanitarian considerations of non-Israeli soldiers whatsoever. Sounds good.

   Elimination- The GSS [General Security Service] and IDF will thoroughly eliminate all armed enemies from Gaza. The enemy population that is innocent of wrong-doing and separated itself from the armed terrorists will be treated in accordance with international law and will be allowed to leave. Israel will generously aid those who wish to leave.

   Pretty straightforward elimination of the people who haven’t already been quieted (killed). Unclear how they will define the “innocent” “enemy population” or what the generous aid will consist of. Fingers crossed, we will see 1948-levels of generosity. A girl can dream.

   Sovereignty – Gaza is part of our Land and we will remain there forever. Liberation of parts of our land forever is the only thing that justifies endangering our soldiers in battle to capture land. Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel. The coastal train line will be extended, as soon as possible, to reach the entire length of Gaza.

   http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/24/a-refreshingly-open-call-for-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestinians-from-an-israeli-deputy-speaker
8. Observer (Tokoroa) 8

   5 August 2014 at 3:20 pm

   LPrint et al

   The problem you have with denigrating the Israelis with your words, is to explain why so many Arabs choose to live in Israel. The population of Israel is 8 Million.

   Nearly 25% of Israel’s population is non Jewish. Of those 20% are Arabs.

   They have equal voting rights, their own political parties, serve on the Israeli Knesset, Cabinet and the Supreme Court.

   They hold diplomatic positions, participate freely in the highly rated music and art activities of the nation of Israel.

   They have the civil rights, including freedoms of religion; speech and assembly. They have more rights than any Arabs living in any other Middle Eastern Country.

   Members of the Druze and Circassian communities are drafted like Jewish citizens, at the request of their own community leaders.

   As a sizeable minority, they do suffer some discrimination in Israel. Ask any minority in any Western country … about the same problem. Try being Pacific midst the Maori population here. Nevertheless, the Arabic population of Israel, according to surveys, is very content with their country and do not wish to live in any other. They do not use the word Apartheid of Israel.

   But then unlike you LPrint they live there and know the quality of their Nation.

   Do not soil your mind by saying that what I have put here is propaganda.

   I generally commend you LPrint – but not when you turn a major problem into a low level comedy.
   • joe90 8.1

     5 August 2014 at 4:38 pm

     Nice, cut and paste because you’re too fucking stupid have an opinion of your own.
   • Gosman 8.2

     5 August 2014 at 4:56 pm

     What article is it a cut and paste from? Your link did not make that clear.
     • joe90 8.2.1

       5 August 2014 at 5:30 pm

       Hasbara in action.

       http://arabisraeliconflict.info/arab-israel-facts/fact-2-arab-israeli-citizens
       • Colonial Viper 8.2.1.1

         5 August 2014 at 9:46 pm

         Hasbara indeed. Nice find joe90.
9. Observer (Tokoroa) 9

   5 August 2014 at 3:21 pm

   LPrint et al

   Thank you for the opportunity to place some facts here.
10. North 10

    5 August 2014 at 4:57 pm

    Observer (Tokoroa) @ 8 –

    “The problem you have with denigrating the Israelis with your words, is to explain why so many Arabs choose to live in Israel etc etc.”

    Since in revealing Freudian Slip you missed it Observer, Gaza and the West Bank are NOT part of Israel.

    Must say Observer you’re a very polite apologist – as you copy-type from some propaganda designed for dissemination in the very ‘polite’ manner you’ve deployed @ 9 above –

    “Thank you for the opportunity to place some facts here.”

    Polite ? No……passive-aggressive apologism is more to the point.
11. infused 11

    5 August 2014 at 4:57 pm

    have a look at liveleak of some of their ‘home made’ rockets.

    And using ambulances to move hamas troops around

    and using schools to store and fire their weapons
    • swordfish 11.1

      5 August 2014 at 7:29 pm

      You appear to have been exposed to a few too many official Israeli soundbytes over recent weeks. Have a bit of a lie down and then get back to us later, sweet-pea. The bullshit you’ve just mindlessly regurgitated has been demolished by a number of people here over the last week. When you’ve refreshed yourself, take a look through the comment threads of posts here on Israel’s massacre over the last couple of weeks and see if you can educate yourself.
    • Foreign Waka 11.2

      5 August 2014 at 8:19 pm

      On a strip of 45kkm x 11km not much of a resistance can be hidden or indeed undertaken. And this is precisely the point. To take everything away and squeeze 4.5 mil people in this small area demanding absolute adherence to laws that are not theirs is slavery/ genocide in disguise. Since this strip has water wells and natural gas the situation becomes even more urgent to get their hands on it.
      • Colonial Viper 11.2.1

        5 August 2014 at 9:51 pm

        Thanks for providing some scale. Gaza is a smaller area than Lake Taupo.
        • swordfish 11.2.1.1

          5 August 2014 at 11:20 pm

          Yep, CV, about as long as Lake Taupo but only a third of the width. And that’s before you even subtract Israel’s “buffer zone” (alluded to by miravox below). Almost 2 million people crammed into that small space, making it one of the most crowded areas in the world. Most Gazans either refugees or the descendents of refugees, driven-out by Israel’s use of war (48, 56, 67) to commit full-scale ethnic-cleansing.
      • miravox 11.2.2

        5 August 2014 at 10:58 pm

        Is that land area before or after Israel’s land grab under “operation protective edge” ?

        A 3km-deep zone on the inside of the border wall was declared by Israel. This covers 44 percent of the Gaza Strip and contains homes of about 250,000 people. Residents have been told to leave.
12. Observer (Tokoroa) 12

    5 August 2014 at 7:16 pm

    Hi North

    I am not surprised that you do not know that lots of Arabs live happily in Israel. They live in the same place as the Jews – Israel. Got it?

    Not your fault. Blogs like this do not generally work on facts. Abuse and misinformation is what turns them on.

    However, I am sure you are pleased that many Arabs live in Israel and have all the rights of free men.

    More rights and freedoms than they get in any Middle East Arab nation. Read respected historians, demographers, and statisticians for information.

    All the best
    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      5 August 2014 at 10:01 pm

      Can Arabs and Jews marry in Israel?
13. North 13

    5 August 2014 at 8:13 pm

    Observer (Tokoroa [my home town]) – Aha !……the sham politeness has gone. Well that helps us get down to tin-tacks I guess.

    Hiding under a veneer of ‘politeness’ you posted, passive-aggressively, on a thread which addresses Gaza and 1,800 dead Palestinians, the majority of that number ordinary civilian residents. You purported (deceptively – which is not ‘polite’) to conflate the formal legal ‘rights’ of the non-Jewish population of ‘your’ Israel, with the lot of the survivors in the Gaza of today. And to vacuously ask the inane question – “Why do they choose to remain ?'” or some such. Gazans have to remain, idiot. There is nowhere to go in the 365 square kilometres of Gaza, and due to the 8 year long blockade, no way out.

    Now, showing what I suspect are your true colours, comes your suggestion that I read. So as not to be sickened by the carnage presumably. I have read a great deal of Palestine’s history. I have also read a great deal about the apartheid state that is Israel. Nelson Mandela’s identification of the application of that grossness impressed me I confess.

    Come clean Observer. Where are you at ? Does your ‘politeness’ giving way quite quickly to a considerably sharper edge emanate from a tolerance for fascist racism, or is it rather more a ‘religion’ thing ? ‘Chosen’ etc ? As were Aryan ? Do you enjoy Exceptionalism Observer ?

    Please write back and tell me of the rights of the 1,800 dead Palestinians and the 999/1000 survivors. Give me a reading list which points up the rights ‘benign’ Israel generously acknowledges and preserves for Gazans – assisted by an annual $US 3 billion of military funding from the US. Tell me about that – tell me ‘politely’ mind.
    • Chooky 13.1

      5 August 2014 at 10:31 pm

      +100 North …i wish Observer (Tokoroa) would listen to the Palestinians for a change

      ‘In the Name of Humanity, Stop the Israeli Slaughter in Gaza: More than 1,800 Killed and almost 10,000 Injured’

      Press Release Gaza Ministry of Health, Palestine

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/in-the-name-of-humanity-stop-the-israeli-slaughter-in-gaza-more-than-1800-killed-and-almost-10000-injured/5394788

      ….and then he/she might like to do some reading on the ancient history of Palestine and recent history of Israel.. (by Jews for Justice)

      http://www.wrmea.org/special-topics/366-special-topics/jews-for-justice/5695-the-complete-text-of-the-origin-of-the-palestine-israel-conflict.html
14. Weepus beard 14

    5 August 2014 at 8:36 pm

    It puzzled me when Observer brought up the democratic rights and happiness of the Arab citizens of Israel as a sort of contrast between the way good Arabs should live and what bad Arabs are doing in Gaza and the West Bank.

    There is a marked difference between these two peoples. One has the right to vote in “democratic” Israel, and one does not. One is offered the protections of a democracy, property rights and citizenship of a fully subsidised and invented state, and the other gets foreign settlements build upon the land they used to call theirs.
    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      5 August 2014 at 11:37 pm

      NB Arabs in Israel are treated as second class citizens on a daily basis – both legally and socially.
      • Murray Olsen 14.1.1

        6 August 2014 at 12:40 am

        I believe they have different coloured identity documents to Jewish citizens. They are also becoming increasingly localised in Arab suburbs, as they are not made welcome in Jewish ones. Anyway, even if Israel treated them exactly the same as other citizens, it has no right to do what it does in the occupied territories.
15. Observer (Tokoroa) 15

    6 August 2014 at 5:53 am

    LPrent

    This blog is not going to do much good for Labour and Green standing in the community.

    Bullying and abuse, which is the unchecked method of so many “commentators” on here, only paints a picture of a collective rabble.

    I don’t think New Zealand wants a rabble. Do you?

    Labour and the Greens would be better to cut lose from this scene Lprent. They would do better with intelligent blogs and writers who research accurately and fairly – without abuse and ranting.

    Raw emotion is a poor substitute for thinking. But it seems you want this Kamate Kamate approach and are willing to use it again and again and again.

    Losers often do that sort of thing. It is a shame.
16. North 16

    6 August 2014 at 7:51 am

    Observer – thank you daddy. It is though an absolute cry off when you avoid substance and weep about form. And then appeal to the headmaster. Because you’ve been challenged over your fact free comments. Not terribly honest of you.

    You gonna ‘tell on’ me again Observer ?

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