Comments on: Imperfect but far better than the alternative

By: northpaw

northpaw — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:37:00 +0000

sorry blogger I didna get a peek at the post or its source, but I would like to ask what’s with this constant (persistent) Left/Right thing? Is the world and its people generally still working this way anymore..?

Howse about progressing politically on a different platform..?

just asking.

By: jason

jason — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:46:41 +0000

Watch the movie Zeitgeist, it will explain all.

By: Graeme

Graeme — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:44:00 +0000

Short of revolution (and we know how those tend to turn out) we only have two choices – a Labour-led government or a National-led one.

I think this is a false dichotomy. The option at the 2008 election was about what government to have for the next three years, but the result also impacts on what the choice is in three years’ time.

For some people this election didn’t ask the question:

“do you want:
1. three years of Labour-led government, or
2. three years of National-led government?”

it actually asked the question:

“do you want:
1. another three years of this Labour-led government, so that in 2011 you will have the option of another 3 years of this Labour-led Government, or
2. three years of a relatively moderate [compared to that on offer in 2005] National-led government, so that in 2011 you will have the option of a much better Labour-led government than that presently on offer?”

By: Santi

Santi — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:52:07 +0000

“For me the point is not to celebrate the end of the 5th Labour government..”

I beg to differ. For me the point is to celebrate the demise of a socialist government, which we hope will not return to power in a decade or more.

Clark’s Labour government is dead, enjoy the feeling!

By: Chris G

Chris G — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:04:21 +0000

Pablos comment: Although I too agree in principle…. Isn’t all this talk getting dangerously close to neo-conservatism? The Reagan et al. “Spreading of Democracy”? A modern day crusade but this time we’re supporting good ole democracy?

It ‘cleansed’ Central America didnt it?

The Taleban will never go down, nor will hamas. They are fanatical nuts

By: illuminatedtiger

illuminatedtiger — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:27:33 +0000

There was a coup against Chavez in 2002. Backed by the CIA.

By: leftrightout

leftrightout — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:06:05 +0000

deemac, I realise, but Chavez did attempt a coup in 1992, which failed miserably but turned out to become a catalyst for his success later in the Presidential Election. The premise of his coup was that Military Intervention could be used for the benefit of the people, Chavez himself was a para-trooper. Had he succeeded it could have shown that Miltary Intervention can also be positive, which is probably what Pablo is trying to get across.

By: deemac

deemac — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:31:43 +0000

leftrightout’s point about Venezuela falls down on the simple fact that Chavez achieved power through elections, not a coup or invasion, and respects electoral reverses (eg on his referendum)

By: leftrightout

leftrightout — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 03:37:07 +0000

“We have to ask â€˜will military intervention work? Will it achieve the goal of creating a free, democratic country where people have their human rights upheld?”

I know you said ‘…most of the time.no’, but perhaps look at Venezuela under Chavez. Chavez came from the military, and while he was a young cadet formed the view that the Military could be used as a force to serve the people rather than oppress them and so started working on a kind of socialist coup.

While Chavez was elected to power in the end it does show that potentially, in the right hands, the Military can be used for good.

As for Labours loss, I think IrishBill’s “a real alternative” post summed it up.

By: Scribe

Scribe — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 03:27:05 +0000

Sending in more troops is not going to make things better. It may just make things worse.

Kind of like “The Surge” in Iraq, you mean.

By: Anita

Anita — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 03:13:06 +0000

I’m sure that Anita would agree with me that even if you don’t mourn the passing of the Fifth Labour Government the alternative, the Government we have now, is going to have mournful consequences for this country.

Hell yeah

Out of interest, what are your additional criticisms? I’m thinking of a follow-up post picking up some good suggestions from others.

For me the point is not to celebrate the end of the 5th Labour government, but to commit to getting a better outcome the next time we swing left