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	<title>Comments on: Intergenerational theft</title>
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	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: modern</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165953</link>
		<dc:creator>modern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165953</guid>
		<description>&quot;Or steal back off the boomers what they are stealing from us  the likely option&quot;

I like it... as soon as politically feasible (ie &#039;demographically&#039; feasible?), start taxing accumulated wealth. The 50-year-old offspring of an 80-year-old dying baby boomer doesn&#039;t need a huge inheritance, as someone argued above. And when that wealth is allowed to pass to the next generation it ossifies the existing social order and makes it much harder for the children and grandchildren of poor baby-boomer parents, and for recent migrants from developing countries, to improve their income level. Inheritances allow inequality to be preserved across generations, in other words. And, as the post argued, the asset wealth of the baby boomers was not gained by fair means; it was gained by the sacrifices of the parents of the baby-boomers (the &#039;war generation&#039;, do we call them?), and gained by running down the publicly owned assets of the country and off-loading costs to future generations - &#039;intergenerational theft&#039;, in other words.

Pension cuts or means-testing in 10-30 years time will hurt the unlucky elderly who didn&#039;t enjoy their generation&#039;s wealth; reduced public spending on health, education, infrastructure and welfare will only hurt the younger generations; and monstrous inheritances will help a sizeable portion of the population become very wealthy but will leave the remainder out in the cold, in a high-tax low-service situation. So it seems to me a good strategy would be wealth taxation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Or steal back off the boomers what they are stealing from us  the likely option&#8221;</p>
<p>I like it&#8230; as soon as politically feasible (ie &#8216;demographically&#8217; feasible?), start taxing accumulated wealth. The 50-year-old offspring of an 80-year-old dying baby boomer doesn&#8217;t need a huge inheritance, as someone argued above. And when that wealth is allowed to pass to the next generation it ossifies the existing social order and makes it much harder for the children and grandchildren of poor baby-boomer parents, and for recent migrants from developing countries, to improve their income level. Inheritances allow inequality to be preserved across generations, in other words. And, as the post argued, the asset wealth of the baby boomers was not gained by fair means; it was gained by the sacrifices of the parents of the baby-boomers (the &#8216;war generation&#8217;, do we call them?), and gained by running down the publicly owned assets of the country and off-loading costs to future generations &#8211; &#8216;intergenerational theft&#8217;, in other words.</p>
<p>Pension cuts or means-testing in 10-30 years time will hurt the unlucky elderly who didn&#8217;t enjoy their generation&#8217;s wealth; reduced public spending on health, education, infrastructure and welfare will only hurt the younger generations; and monstrous inheritances will help a sizeable portion of the population become very wealthy but will leave the remainder out in the cold, in a high-tax low-service situation. So it seems to me a good strategy would be wealth taxation.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165873</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 05:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165873</guid>
		<description>Sorry Ron , Not convinced. You will have to try harder.
An essay would help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Ron , Not convinced. You will have to try harder.<br />
An essay would help.</p>
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		<title>By: sean14</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165854</link>
		<dc:creator>sean14</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 03:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165854</guid>
		<description>Let he who has not been a dick at some point in his life cast the first insult! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let he who has not been a dick at some point in his life cast the first insult! <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165816</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165816</guid>
		<description>You do have a point, but the only real way to boost productivity and growth is to send more people through higher education, getting them well paid jobs and middle class lifestyles in the process. The way to increase wages is to decrease the number of people willing to work for the minimum. The more people can get well paid middle class jobs, the closer we&#039;re going to get to a shortage of janitors and shelf stackers, and the more people are going to end up paying for janitors and shelf stackers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You do have a point, but the only real way to boost productivity and growth is to send more people through higher education, getting them well paid jobs and middle class lifestyles in the process. The way to increase wages is to decrease the number of people willing to work for the minimum. The more people can get well paid middle class jobs, the closer we&#8217;re going to get to a shortage of janitors and shelf stackers, and the more people are going to end up paying for janitors and shelf stackers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165812</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165812</guid>
		<description>No, but our economy is screwed if we don&#039;t start creating more jobs for scientists (who generally need at least bachelors degrees to do their jobs properly)
And scientists are just one of many examples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, but our economy is screwed if we don&#8217;t start creating more jobs for scientists (who generally need at least bachelors degrees to do their jobs properly)<br />
And scientists are just one of many examples.</p>
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		<title>By: r0b</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165804</link>
		<dc:creator>r0b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165804</guid>
		<description>No, that would be me on this occasion, I got it wrong!  See note above...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, that would be me on this occasion, I got it wrong!  See note above&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: r0b</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165803</link>
		<dc:creator>r0b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165803</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; The pledge says that if he were Minister of Education he would resign as Minister, and if not he would publicly condemn the breach of promise  not that he would resign from parliament. &lt;/i&gt;

You are correct - I got that wrong.  Fixed in the post, thanks for pointing it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> The pledge says that if he were Minister of Education he would resign as Minister, and if not he would publicly condemn the breach of promise  not that he would resign from parliament. </i></p>
<p>You are correct &#8211; I got that wrong.  Fixed in the post, thanks for pointing it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Pascal's bookie</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165798</link>
		<dc:creator>Pascal's bookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165798</guid>
		<description>hah!  thnx. (I also am apparently a dick)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hah!  thnx. (I also am apparently a dick)</p>
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		<title>By: sean14</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165796</link>
		<dc:creator>sean14</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165796</guid>
		<description>Pascal, the link to the pledge is in the main post. Fair enough on your last sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pascal, the link to the pledge is in the main post. Fair enough on your last sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: Pascal's bookie</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165795</link>
		<dc:creator>Pascal's bookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165795</guid>
		<description>Got a cite for that? I do remember him standing in my high school assembly hall promising me that there would be no fees, but can&#039;t recall the detals of what he was going to resign from. But he didn&#039;t resign from anything in any case so he&#039;s still a dick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got a cite for that? I do remember him standing in my high school assembly hall promising me that there would be no fees, but can&#8217;t recall the detals of what he was going to resign from. But he didn&#8217;t resign from anything in any case so he&#8217;s still a dick.</p>
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		<title>By: sean14</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165794</link>
		<dc:creator>sean14</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165794</guid>
		<description>&quot;one Lockwood Smith, promised to abolish the fees, and famously signed a pledge to resign from parliament&quot;

The pledge says that if he were Minister of Education he would resign as Minister, and if not he would publicly condemn the breach of promise - not that he would resign from parliament. 

I have paid off two student loans and the sky hasn&#039;t fallen in. I can&#039;t see a good reason why I shouldn&#039;t have paid a small fraction of the cost of an education that I will be the prime beneficiary of in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;one Lockwood Smith, promised to abolish the fees, and famously signed a pledge to resign from parliament&#8221;</p>
<p>The pledge says that if he were Minister of Education he would resign as Minister, and if not he would publicly condemn the breach of promise &#8211; not that he would resign from parliament. </p>
<p>I have paid off two student loans and the sky hasn&#8217;t fallen in. I can&#8217;t see a good reason why I shouldn&#8217;t have paid a small fraction of the cost of an education that I will be the prime beneficiary of in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: RedLogix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165768</link>
		<dc:creator>RedLogix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165768</guid>
		<description>No different to my situation, I&#039;m well into my fifties and still maybe a decade off seeing a direct ihherentance. Buying a first home and raising family was never easy.

Of course in other cultures the older generation more commonly funds or backs the younger ones than is customary in ours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No different to my situation, I&#8217;m well into my fifties and still maybe a decade off seeing a direct ihherentance. Buying a first home and raising family was never easy.</p>
<p>Of course in other cultures the older generation more commonly funds or backs the younger ones than is customary in ours.</p>
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		<title>By: BLiP</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165738</link>
		<dc:creator>BLiP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 07:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165738</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Debt is a new form of slavery and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal , there is no human relation between master and slave&lt;/blockquote&gt;

. . . or something like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Debt is a new form of slavery and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal , there is no human relation between master and slave</p></blockquote>
<p>. . . or something like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ag</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165719</link>
		<dc:creator>Ag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 05:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165719</guid>
		<description>They don&#039;t give a damn because the student loan scheme was essentially a means to semi-privatize tertiary education. As far as I know, the loans are provided by banks, with the government as a front.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They don&#8217;t give a damn because the student loan scheme was essentially a means to semi-privatize tertiary education. As far as I know, the loans are provided by banks, with the government as a front.</p>
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		<title>By: Ag</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/intergenerational-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-165717</link>
		<dc:creator>Ag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 05:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=22637#comment-165717</guid>
		<description>I still have a huge student loan, having gone on to doctoral study overseas for six years after finishing uni in NZ.

I long ago accepted that I probably won&#039;t be able to afford a house, and that I&#039;ll probably work until I&#039;m dead without having paid it off. 

C&#039;est la vie. What ya gonna do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still have a huge student loan, having gone on to doctoral study overseas for six years after finishing uni in NZ.</p>
<p>I long ago accepted that I probably won&#8217;t be able to afford a house, and that I&#8217;ll probably work until I&#8217;m dead without having paid it off. </p>
<p>C&#8217;est la vie. What ya gonna do?</p>
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