John Key, the jobs fairy

46 comments on “John Key, the jobs fairy ”

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1. Pete George 1

   5 June 2012 at 9:13 am

   Remember when John Key promised 4,000 new jobs from the cycleway and, in fact, a few hundred, short-term, part-time positions were created?

   Wasn’t the cycleway a joint initiative with the Greens?

   Didn’t the Greens “promise” 100,000 new green jobs? And then didn’t even reach a Memorandum of Agreement with National to try and achieve anything?

   The green jobs are no different to the blue jobs – very difficult to fairy out of a recesion.
   • JH 1.1

     5 June 2012 at 9:19 am

     National is the government. It is the one making promises and putting in place policies. They are responsible for the outcome.

     The Greens haven’t put their policies into practice, so it’s a bit early to say they failed.

     The cycleway was Key’s brainfart. The Greens jumped on for the eco-tourism angle and have been consistently disappointed, I understand, by the Nats’ dumbarse approach.

     Of course, your hair god voted for all these broken promises, didn’t he Pete G?

     It’s interesting to see United Future doing it’s grumpy old man routine at anyone who looks like squeezing Dunne out of his micro-niche in the political ecology. The other week, it was the Conservatives, today it’s the Greens.
   • mickysavage 1.2

     5 June 2012 at 9:21 am

      

     Pete
     Focus on what Key said.  Key promised the cycleway jobs, not the Greens.  Key promised in two successive budgets 170,000 new jobs.  Key said that the convention centre would create 800 jobs whereas it appears that the actual figure would be half that.
     So stop trying to sidetrack the debate.  Concentrate on what Key has promised. 

      
     • Pete George 1.2.1

       5 June 2012 at 9:32 am

       It’s not sidetracking, it’s pointing at realism. I don’t believe you can take party election planks as “promises”, especially with specific numbers. They are (pie in the sky) aspirations.

       Do you realistically expect any party ro achieve the precise numbers talked about in an election campaign?

       Do really think any party would have achieved significantl;y better employment statistics over the last three years? Ok, I can predict what you might say but that’s impossible to substantiate.

       We have a serious issue with unemployment rates and casualisation of work, but I’m sure any party that got into power this term would not be able to wave a magic job wand and fix it.

       National will be judged on their handling of the economy and employment in 2014. As will Labour’s and Greens credibility to do any better. Like last year.
       • JH 1.2.1.1

         5 June 2012 at 9:43 am

         “Do really think any party would have achieved significantl;y better employment statistics over the last three years?”

         Yes.

         The alternative is to believe we live in the best of all possible worlds.

         That might be true of the esteemed minister of revenue, who, like mold behind a waterfall, has found a niche with a constant stream of taxpayer largesse raining on him, but it isn’t true of the rest of us.

         Your party is pro-work casualisation, Petey.
       • Jackal 1.2.1.2

         5 June 2012 at 9:44 am

         I expect projected job growth to be accurate. The fact that it has consistently not been shows that National has no plan, and they have simply cherry picked numbers to make themselves look good. I realistically expect the Greens projections to be met if not surpassed, because they at least have a plan that will work.
         • Pete George 1.2.1.2.1

           5 June 2012 at 10:23 am

           I realistically expect the Greens projections to be met if not surpassed, because they at least have a plan that will work.

           Apart from that being totally untested and debatable, Greens have so far totally failed because they failed to become a part of the government.

           At how much of the vote should election “promises” be applicable – 12%? If so, why make exceptions of political convenience at 0.6%?
         • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.2.2

           5 June 2012 at 1:18 pm

           The fact that it has consistently not been shows that National has no plan,

           No, it doesn’t show that at all. It shows that the underlying theory that Treasury were working with doesn’t work (the proof of a theory is that it can make accurate predictions). The NACTs have a plan – it’s to enrich the already rich while impoverishing others and so your second part and they have simply cherry picked numbers to make themselves look good is correct. The NACTs know that the neo-liberal BS that Treasury and most economists use is just a cover for such rampant theft.
       • Pascal's bookie 1.2.1.3

         5 June 2012 at 9:49 am

         Pete, the number of jobs the Skycity convention centre is supposed to create isn’t some amorphous ‘election promise’. It isn’t a nation wide treasury prediction. It’s the other side of a deal the government is making. They get more pokies and in return they build a convention centre. The reason we want a convention centre is ulitimately because of the jobs it will create. that’s how the PM has defended the pokie increase.

         More specifically, it’s a deal the PM is making. It’s his deal, and again, the point of the deal, as described by Key, has been that it will provide jobs. And it turns out that Key’s numbers are dodgy.

         He sold himself as the ‘numbers man’, The wall st banker who shouted ‘show me the money!’.

         Now you are saying that no one should pay any attention to those sort of claims.

         If the jobs number is BS, why should we let SkyCity have more pokies pete? Why should the PM be selling the deal based on BS numbers?

         That’s just ok with you is it?
       • mickysavage 1.2.1.4

         5 June 2012 at 9:56 am

         They were not election planks.  They were figures announced by the PMONZ when he announced a major new project and they were also in two Budgets.  If ever a politician should be able to get figures right it is when he is PMONZ or in the budget.

         Stop trying to divert and blame the greens.  Focus on Key’s fibs. 
       • Ed 1.2.1.5

         5 June 2012 at 10:03 am

         Pete George, It is certainly disappointing to hear a (self-appointed?) spokesperson for any political party indicating that any political promises are only “(pie in the sky) aspirations”. The point of the post was yet another example of how that sadly appears to be the case for the National Party – and now there you are saying we should regard any promise from United Future in that light. Perhaps you are just trying to undermine Peter Dunne; it would be interesting to hear his take on your clear cynicism and preparedness for a political party to effectively lie to the voting public in order to get votes.
       • tc 1.2.1.6

         5 June 2012 at 10:35 am

         “It’s not sidetracking, it’s pointing at realism. I don’t believe you can take party election planks as “promises”, especially with specific numbers..”

         There’s the joke of the week folks from the resident wanna be liked UF Troll , sadly the laughs are on us.
       • Georgecom 1.2.1.7

         5 June 2012 at 1:28 pm

         Pete, to complete the list.

         Keys convention centre jobs ‘estimate’ wasn’t an ‘election plank’. It was a justification for the centre being funded in the manner proposed.

         Keys cycle way jobs ‘estimate’ wasn’t an ‘election plank’. It came out of the, cough, ‘jobs summit’ and was part of his, cough, ‘rolling maul’ of jobs ‘initiatives’.

         Englishes budget jobs ‘estimates’ are not ‘election planks’. They are purportedly forecasts by economic experts.
   • Liberal Realist 1.3

     5 June 2012 at 12:27 pm

     “Remember when John Key promised 4,000 new jobs from the cycleway and, in fact, a few hundred, short-term, part-time positions were created?

     Wasn’t the cycleway a joint initiative with the Greens?

     Didn’t the Greens “promise” 100,000 new green jobs? And then didn’t even reach a Memorandum of Agreement with National to try and achieve anything?

     The green jobs are no different to the blue jobs – very difficult to fairy out of a recesion.”

     Pete,

     Why do you feel the need to obfuscate every single thread in this forum?

     You always lay blame on everyone but the culprit, being our current government.

     As far as Green jobs vs Blue jobs go, green jobs are very different from blue jobs. I wonder if your RWNJ brain can work out why?
   • felix 1.4

     5 June 2012 at 1:13 pm

     Pete, despite standing in a General Election, does not appear to know the difference between Parliament and Government.
2. mickysavage 2

   5 June 2012 at 9:19 am

   Oops wrong place
3. Jackal 3

   5 June 2012 at 9:23 am

   I’m thoroughly sick and tired of National’s hide the statistics rubbish! They’re like little children who know they’ve been caught, but lie anyway (no insult to children intended). Imagine if we tried to run our houses like they “manage” the economy. We would be up shits creek without a paddle in no time flat.
   • fender 3.1

     5 June 2012 at 9:57 pm

     “Imagine if we tried to run our houses like they “manage” the economy.”

     Paying someone to use all amenities because you have sold them off to buy a jacuzzi.
4. Carol 4

   5 June 2012 at 9:31 am

   In that over-hyped “show me the money” debate between JK and Goff last year, didn’t Key claim to be very good at understanding numbers?

   So, either little Johnny has lied about his ability with numbers or he’s deliberately using numbers to mislead the public, as with his Sky City conference centre figures.
   • Blue 4.1

     5 June 2012 at 9:51 am

     Key is brilliant with numbers. He and Blinglish just make them up to suit themselves. No one ever calls them on it, so why would they give a realistic estimate when they can just pull a number out of their arses to make themselves look better? When it all turns to custard they can just say ‘it was only an estimate’ and shrug. The media and the public nod sagely, because we live in a dinammic environment and that JK is so good with numbers…
5. robertguyton 5

   5 June 2012 at 10:56 am

   Pete George has taken up his hair god’s (thanks JH) Comb of Righteousness and using it to try to tease out criticism of the Greens, in the same way it’s always been dunne.
   Pete’s like a spoiled baby, nether regions swathed in flannel, mewling at the sound of his *Mother’s swollen discomfort but it’s only sour milk you’ll draw from those dugs, Peety.
   And there’ll be a hair in it.

   * ‘hair god’
6. Pete George 6

   5 June 2012 at 11:26 am

   Greens get as snarky as the worst of them when their in-bubble mantra gets challenged out in the real world.

   Greens have some good ideas, but totally untested, and almost certainly their zeal of dreams revolution will never be accepted in whole by the majority.

   They’re not alone, National’s missing of job targets is the same thing happening in practice. The Greens are yet to practice their pitch.
   • mickysavage 6.1

     5 June 2012 at 11:50 am

     The greens have broken exactly, precisely, give or take nothing and with no margin of error zero of their job creation promises. And National has broken oddles of their promises in such places as election manifestos, PMONZ announcements and two succeeding budget documents to name a few. Yet you Petey have mentioned them so far in this thread eight times. You are trying to divert. Address the issue of Key’s broken promises or stop wasting our time. Yo
     • Pete George 6.1.1

       5 June 2012 at 12:00 pm

       a) Few of any party’s campaign policies are promises.
       b) National have struggled to help businesses create more jobs in a difficult economic environment and have not met targets.
       c) Labour would also have struggled to imrpove the employment situation in the same economic environment.
       d) Labour with a strong Green part of a coalition would have found it especially difficult to implement let alone succeed with their job strategies.

       It’s quite appropriate in a post called “John Key, the jobs fairy” to question whether a green job (“say it and they will come”) strategy would be more successful, especialy as that approach has not been a resounding success anywhere else in the world that I’m aware of.
       • Pascal's bookie 6.1.1.1

         5 June 2012 at 12:09 pm

         Pete, these aren’t campaign promises. Some of them are budget claims, and another is the SkyCity deal. In order to sell the deal, John Key was going on and on about the number of jobs. No one can work out how he arrived at that figure. It looks to be something he just made up.

         It’s nothing like what you are describing.

         The herals, for goodness sake, is saying his numbers on Skycity are dodgy.

         But you don’t want to talk about that, or rather, you’d prefer it if that fact was equated to a hypothetical about something completely different.

         It isn’t the GFC that makes the SkyCity numbers look dodgy.
         • Pete George 6.1.1.1.1

           5 June 2012 at 12:17 pm

           I agree that there’s some dodgy looking Sky numbers. But this has been publicised while Key is overseas, I’ll see how he might respond and what else comes out before getting too wound up about this.
           • Pascal's bookie 6.1.1.1.1.1

             5 June 2012 at 12:55 pm

             You have been responding Pete.
           • Craig Glen Eden 6.1.1.1.1.2

             5 June 2012 at 3:00 pm

             Petey George what a tool you are you have been trying to divert the issue away from this Governments failings and straight out lies onto the Greens. United future is propping up this lot while Key steals the country from its people and United Future are all in helping.
             • mike e …

               5 June 2012 at 10:13 pm

               And they send pathetic git on to this website to defend this bumbling govt.
               No plan conmankey makes it up as he goes along.
           • bbfloyd 6.1.1.1.1.3

             5 June 2012 at 4:28 pm

             Is there ever going to be a time when you don’t shill for johnny sparkles little pete? …. the waffling excuses are reminiscent of big pete’s general approach to politics, but that doesn’t make him relevant…..And it just makes you an annoying waste of time…..

             Just be aware that the glitter is starting to drop off johnny now…. not too long and everyone will be able to see the “substance” behind the glitter… i would be creating some distance from that spectacle before the skidmarks become permanent ……
           • Brooklyn 6.1.1.1.1.4

             5 June 2012 at 9:18 pm

             Que? It’s not bullshit because Johnkey is overseas and he will respond to his own bullshit when he gets home? Fec.
           • rosy 6.1.1.1.1.5

             5 June 2012 at 9:32 pm

             But this has been publicised while Key is overseas,
             Of course it’s been publicised while Key is overseas. There’ll be a few Communications people who expect it to have all blown over by the time he gets back.
   • Draco T Bastard 6.2

     5 June 2012 at 1:31 pm

     wow, you’re really upset about these lies from JK and NACT being shown for what they are. So much so that your diverting to and blaming the Greens. Why is that Pete?

     I’m going to guess that it’s because you’re diverting from the fact that you bought the lies. You’ve been on here for months defending NACT and UFs decision to join with them and you just can’t accept the truth that doing so was against all principal.
7. Jackal 7

   5 June 2012 at 11:41 am

   National caught cherry picking numbers… again

   The socio-economic costs associated with the deal between SkyCity and National are estimated to be in excess of $277 million. A reduction by 85% in construction jobs and around 50% less economy wide jobs means that the benefits do not outweigh the costs…
8. starlight 8

   5 June 2012 at 11:42 am

   The jobs spin,is just that, it sounds good,just like ‘budget surplus’ the continual cutting
   of jobs and public services is key and English admitting they have failed and will
   continue to fail.
   Key should explain to the tax payers why he has given the oil rouges a ‘tax break’
   also explain why he can’t roll back the tax cuts to the top 10-20%,if this was done
   then those funds could go into job creation instead of cutting jobs,some may say
   that if we dont help business create jobs then we will be worse off,’bah humbug’
   and a right wing ideology,typical of imf theories that is destroying economies
   and bringing the people to their knees,in order to have a ‘one world’ govt controlled
   by the very money launderers,money charletons that have destroyed the financial
   status of countries in europe and elsewhere.
   Make those responsible pay,dont take it out on the average hard working person
   who did not contribute to the problem, lets have some honesty in job creation
   because all nz’ers get is false figures and false promises,key and english should
   tell us ‘where are the jobs’ because nz’ers just dont trust the rhetoric anymore’
   we need ‘where,when,how were the so called jobs created’ proof please
   • Brooklyn 8.1

     5 June 2012 at 9:33 pm

     Yes. Krugman: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/03/paul-krugman-cassandra-economist-crisis
9. ghostwhowalksnz 9

   5 June 2012 at 11:49 am

   The Statistics data release has been cancelled and they are ‘reviewing’ whether they will provide any future data

   The reason for the cancellation of the March data is that they cant guarantee the accuracy ???

   Yet the data is produced from IRD -source: Administrative data from Inland Revenue
   The Minister of Statistics is Maurice Williamson

   Would be interesting to know what the statistical test they used to determine that it was no longer accurate ?
10. Tiger Mountain 10

    5 June 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Show us the jobs! ShonKey, but you can’t.

    Cancelling the last census was classic disaster capitalism, that over reaction, attributed to the EQ has been used as a screen for hiding unpalatable (to the torys) facts that the nationwide census would have revealed. The census helps future planning, where or are new roads needed, schools etc. What people actually earn. Even the underground that avoid census participation get noted in a blunt way on the mesh blocks.

    The stark facts about Pike River came out eventually once the media circus and corporate damage control moved on. Same with Christchurch, any decent citizen would be full of empathy for those caught in the deadly quakes and not particularly wanting to push for the census to continue. Which it could have even in different forms using other computer data bases. It was a piss weak devious excuse to say that because Christchurch was down (Stats NA HQ) that the census must go down. The regional organisations were pretty much in place.
11. captain hook 11

    5 June 2012 at 1:09 pm

    I wanna job too.
    I’m sick of eating baked beans and cheap meat and being told to shut up.
    I wanna holiday and a rest from the daily grind of doing nothing and lots of it.
12. captain hook 12

    5 June 2012 at 1:12 pm

    I wanna job too.
    I’m sick of eating baked beans and cheap meat and being told to shut up and be thankful..
    I wanna holdiay and a rest from the daily grind of doing nothing and lots of it.
13. rod 13

    5 June 2012 at 2:26 pm

    I think New Zealand could do with a replay of the excellent BBC drama series starring Bernard Hill in, Boys from the Blackstuff.
    • gnomic 13.1

      5 June 2012 at 10:35 pm

      Can’t see replays of the Black Stuff being a priority for the overlords of NZ TV. “Gi’us a job” and “I can do that”. those were his catchcries. Yosser that is. When I looked into the availability of this series a year or two back it appeared that all Amazon had to offer was 2nd hand videotapes, but looking again now it seems that there may be DVDs available, at least in the UK. However, as I say, I won’t be holding my breath for a NZ replay, I think it would be regarded as distinctly off message by the powers that be. Foodie cook-offs, reality TV shows, and inane and vulgar interview sessions with celebs, that’s what the great NZ public want, and by jingo that’s what they’ll get.
14. Brooklyn 14

    5 June 2012 at 9:28 pm

    Don’t forget how the nats Blinglished 6 billion from selling assets. And then Blinglish admitted that he Blinglished the number just so he could Blinglish some more numbers. The Nacts have plenty of form. Oh Fuck, the share market… nothing to see here.
    • Kotahi Tane Huna 14.1

      5 June 2012 at 9:37 pm

      Stop whining. Liars lie. Get over it.

      These particular liars? Their lies are predictable; any opposition that doesn’t run rings ’round them is a waste of space.
      • Brooklyn 14.1.1

        5 June 2012 at 9:45 pm

        True enough, but isn’t the alternative to swallow and gag?
    • mike e 14.2

      5 June 2012 at 10:09 pm

      Brooklyn now with the recent meltdown in the share market double dipstick will get even less .Or will they sell these assets for fire sale prices.If they don’t get the value their worth is that going to cost us $120million to say no.

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