John Key’s Groundhog day II

Written By: - Date published: 8:53 am, August 22nd, 2014 - 88 comments
Categories: john key, national - Tags: ,

Another day and more bad press for National over dirty politics. John Key is now claiming, without irony, that an assault on our democracy is occurring. There is, but not from the sources that he claims.  The attack on our democracy has come from the National Party who has politicised the public service, abused its relationship with the press, and fed sensitive information to an attack blogger who has then smeared away to his heart’s content.

A Herald Digipoll has recorded a significant drop in support for John Key and a significant gain for David Cunliffe in the preferred PM stakes.  It appears that more and more citizens are realising that the attacks on Cunliffe are part of a dark ops smear campaign from within the Beehive.  As David gets more public exposure I expect support for him to grow.  And if he performs as well as he did in this Herald video interview then he and Labour will do well.

Yesterday there was a lot of analysis of Key’s knowledge that sensitive information concerning Phil Goff was declassified and handed to Cameron Slater.  I thought that we had the smoking gun proving that Key knew about the OIA release by the SIS to Cameron Slater.  But Enough is Enough pointed out that the evidence was not quite there.

A plain reading of the letters released by Tony Manhire Felix Marwick yesterday clearly suggested that Key, as opposed to his office, had been briefed on the decision to release the SIS documents to Cameron Slater.  But then Ombudsman Beverley Wakam and former SIS chief Warren Tucker came out and claimed that the language used in both letters is a particularly Wellington form of English and that it meant Key’s office was briefed and not him personally despite the clear plain english used.

So can John Key honestly claim that he did not know about the decision to declassify and release sensitive and politically loaded SIS documents to Cameron Slater?

The Herald has reported this morning on the following video which is from a press conference back in 2011.

Key is quoted as saying:

What happened is Warren Tucker didn’t come to me, he went to his legal adviser and his legal advisers told him this is the process they have to follow and when he was going through that process it was at that point he told me he’d release it because he has to tell me that under the no-surprises doctrine.”

Another aspect to the story that is now very clear is that Tucker released the document to Slater only because Key had referred to the document publicly.  Tucker’s letter to Slater says “the [NZSIS] would not normally release such information because disclosure may breach the confidentiality of advice tendered by officials. In this case, however, the existence and some of the content of such briefings have already been made public.”

So Key’s claim that Slater’s OIA request did not come over his desk has to be wrong.  And his role in the actual release needs to be investigated further.

Of course this debate avoids the bleedingly obvious.  By refusing to do anything except conceding reluctantly that Collins’ actions were unwise Key is effectively sanctioning the Dirty Politics exposed in the book.  People should lose their jobs, starting with Collins, and continuing with chief of staff Wayne Eagleston and continuing with Jason Ede.  Their continued presence on various payrolls shows what Key thinks about their tactics and behaviour.

88 comments on “John Key’s Groundhog day II ”

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  1. Enough is Enough 1
    22 August 2014 at 9:07 am

    Gone by lunchtime….

  2. redfred 2
    22 August 2014 at 9:12 am

    ooooohhh come back Fisani

  3. Craig Glen Eden 3
    22 August 2014 at 9:17 am

    Key is stuffed and Cunliffe was back to his old self in the Herald Intereview yesterday, Cunliffe was superb in that interview, his ablility to answer questions with clarity and detail reminded me so much of Clark. Should he repeat this kind of performance on TV I think things will change for Cunliffe and Labour.
    I have spoken to a number of West Auckland folk who are self confessed Labour through and through who told me they didnt have confidence in David Cunliffe because of the negativity that came from within Labour attacking Cunliffe. Yesterday I was able to say check this video out. Two of them said they would because they had been waiting to see if they were going to vote because they thought Labour and Cunliffe had no chance. The two that said they would look at the video both had Labour voting partners they said felt the same. Both people one male and female said if they thought Cunliffe was as good as I had said in the interview that they would vote for him, so who knows the election may get very interesting.

  4. ianmac 4
    22 August 2014 at 9:26 am

    So that is what a smoking gun looks like! Incredible!
    Either Key was lying then or Key is lying now. Cannot both be right.
    And remember the amazing confidence Key has shown in denying the accusations recently must be another form of his ability to laugh and lie at the same time. Amazing!

  5. Craig Glen Eden 5
    22 August 2014 at 9:35 am

    That video is very damaging for Key in light of what he has been saying to he media the last few days. The journos in this clip must be pretty pissed now. For those of us who love politics on the left it seems like its a beautiful day, winter is drawing to a close.

    • Kiwiri 5.1
      22 August 2014 at 10:35 am

      at that point he told me he’d release it because he has to tell me

      John Key, on any day and for his next stand-up, will try to figure out which furniture or office content he will pretend to be (or not to be) in the PM’s Office: chair, desk, telephone, stapler, flight ticket to Hawaii, paper-weight, ……….

  6. Heck Funk Joy 6
    22 August 2014 at 9:47 am

    So, if the head of the fish is rotten, what does it say for the body?

    There will be decent people within the National Party membership, however, are there also people that act in the same dirty way as John et. al. Couldn’t be possible could it?

    Would it be possible for ex employee of the state service commission & a National party paid member to be willing to ‘look’ around in certain Governments files in order to gain contract work?

    Would it be possible they have nice cushy roles within an SOE? due to their political affiliations.

    Would you trust the SSC for oversight if this is the type of employee they manufacture.

    I wouldn’t.

  7. ianmac 7
    22 August 2014 at 9:57 am

    So Tucker had intended to release to Slater on the same day that he received the request. Even worse!
    He said Dr Tucker told him about Slater’s request for the documents on July 26, the day he received it.

    Mr Goff said Dr Tucker said he intended to release that day, “and I hit the roof”.

    He had told Dr Tucker it was “unbelievable that you would contemplate doing anything like that – that draws you right into the political arena”.

    He said Dr Tucker then agreed to delay the release for a week.
    At the end of David Bennet’s article:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11312590

    • Anne 7.1
      22 August 2014 at 10:58 am

      Someone will correct me if I’m wrong but:

      Dr Tucker talked about communicating with “the Prime Minister” and the “Leader of the Opposition” then yesterday he corrected that by saying… when referring to the Prime Minister it means I contacted the office and not necessarily the PM himself. We now know he spoke directly to the Leader of the Opposition, Phil Goff on the 26th July 2011, but we also know John Key was holidaying’ in Hawaii at that stage.

      I hope someone with the time and expertise is able to put a full time-line on all of this, because I suspect it will spell out a revealing story. For starters:

      There is no way Dr Warren Tucker and his senior staff would normally contemplate responding positively to an OIA request on the same day it was received, and yet we now know from Phil Goff that is what was intended. Normally information of that nature is automatically refused anyway. The inevitable conclusion is that Dr Tucker was being ‘coerced’ to immediately expedite the request and the coercion was coming from someone in the PM’s Office – one of his press officers?

      Why the need for such a rush? The answer to that suggests that the PM and his staff wanted the whole Goff smear operation to be done and dusted before Key arrived back in NZ. That would give Key “plausible deniability should he face awkward questions.

      • karol 7.1.1
        22 August 2014 at 11:18 am

        Looking for info on that, I found that the story arose because the SIS had (allegedly) leaked ino to the press about the Israeli spy story. There were allegations that Key had tried to cover that up.

        At that time in mid-late July 2011, Key was in the US and did a visit to Obama.

        So that was the context in which Goff then questioned why he hadn’t been informed of the spy investigation.

        • Anne 7.1.1.1
          22 August 2014 at 11:38 am

          Yes, a very interesting context indeed and I would not be surprised if, during his sojourn in Washington, Key was asked to close down the story… a request he may well have passed on to the SIS. The inquiry should clear all of that up, but of course it won’t happen until after the election.

          Something I always do is try to imagine how Helen Clark would have handled the matter. She and her staff would not have been involved in any urgent request for the release of sensitive information to a left-wing blogger in the first place. So, there would have been no story!

    • politikiwi 7.2
      22 August 2014 at 11:38 am

      …which dovetails interestingly with Slater’s annoyance with the delay (which is very evident if you read the book).

      One possible explanation is that Slater was told Tucker would authorise the release post-haste, but the plan to do the release on the same day was derailed by Phil Goff’s objections, and he had to wait a week.

      It wouldn’t be unreasonable to think Ede gave Slater the wording for the OIA request (there’s clear evidence it happened in other cases), got Tucker to agree to immediate release and told Slater that it would be released immediately, and also what would be in it as Slater infers in the book he already knows what’s in it. The carefully orchestrated plan went sour when Goff hit the roof, resulting in a delay which Slater clearly didn’t expect, although anyone with even a vague knowledge of how the SIS handles OIA requests would’ve been prepared for a 20 day wait from the outset.

      This stinks. It really does.

  8. tricledrown 8
    22 August 2014 at 10:01 am

    Key is as cunning as a drain pipe rat just focusing on him riding out the flak which is obviously his strategy while dog whistling his support is drowning out opposition policy !
    We need Cunliffe Norman Turei to ignore Keys lies for now let the new sMedia do their job and just focus on talking about our POLICIES!
    The Standard should just set up a separate “Toxic Dump”site to deal with Keys lies and Corruption.
    And keep the Main Focus on our policy and leadership
    Not let nationals pollution damage our streams here on the Standard !
    Lynn I hope your listening!

  9. coolas 9
    22 August 2014 at 10:02 am

    “What happened is Warren Tucker didn’t come to me, he went to his legal adviser and his legal advisers told him this is the process they have to follow and when he was going through that process it was at that point he told me he’d release it because he has to tell me that under the no-surprises doctrine.”

    Key can’t continue saying it was his office, not him personally, who were briefed. Maybe he will claim that when he says ‘me’ he really means ‘they.’ And we can all shake our heads in disbelieve that such a slimy creature his risen to the top of NZ politics.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1
      22 August 2014 at 10:07 am

      Yesterday he told John Campbell that ‘people go to jail for that sort of thing’.

  10. adam 10
    22 August 2014 at 10:19 am

    Interesting to see Key, put down that journalist. He was a master of the put down. I hope journalist in this country, keep seeing Key for what he is. I think they will, as they have been treated with a striking measure of disdain.

  11. politikiwi 11
    22 August 2014 at 10:28 am

    You mean Toby Manhire, right MS? Not Tony Manhire?

    [Oops – now corrected. If you ever needed proof that my work is my own and not fed by Wellington PR supremos … – MS]

  12. unsol 12
    22 August 2014 at 10:37 am

    I don’t think Key will be gone by lunch time & I think he will probably survive this & go on to win the next election. Sorry lefties, but until Russell, King, Mallard, Hipkins, Cunliffe & Goff etc are out of politics you’re losing before the campaigns even start. You need more fresh faces & you need to have a 21st century Helen that knows who to effectively communicate your policies to the masses. And I very much doubt Ardern is the woman for the job!

    But make no mistake, there will be causalities – Slater will be cold shouldered if he isn’t already (plus he’s busy back-pedalling & distancing himself from the Nats faster than I can type anyway…for example, just look at his anti English post today. Funny cos it’s not like any other party would have him!)

    And Collins will be gone for sure- she’s too toxic now….what’s the bet she was the person (being a lawyer) who advised Slater of the right question to ask in order to get that OIA accepted? My guess is Fairfax were denied because they didn’t know the right question. Admittedly the media aren’t always the sharpest tack in the box, but still, I bet knowing the exact question comes down to inside info….especially since Slater knew the outcome before he even got the info.

    The whole thing wreaks of corruption & for what – yep, Goff lied but the sky didn’t fall in & plus we all knew he wasn’t going to last the distance anyway so why sink to this level of muck raking? For blog ratings? And if so, why?

    Why is helping Slater so important to the Nats as let’s be honest, he is not that effective….the elections have always been close & we had the lowest turnout ever last time so I wouldn’t really call that good bang for ones buck.

    I just don’t get why a bunch of well educated successful people in their own right would want to associate with let alone support an uneducated – albeit smart – narcissistic bludger born with a large silver spoon in his mouth & an even bigger sense of entitlement. Especially since he makes it obvious he doesn’t like most of them!

    The whole thing is weird & annoying as its creating more disconnect & undermining our democracy.

    • Craig Glen Eden 12.1
      22 August 2014 at 11:06 am

      I dont think he will be gone by lunch time but this is the beginning of the end. Key has now showed himself to be a liar Hager has produced the facts and Key fell over his own lies. In doing so he has stuffed Tuckers reputation Tucker is no longer a retired SIS civil servant he is a partisian hack who knows he personally told Key of the OIA and its release and produced a letter that said he had and then said oh no but when I said Informed the Prime Minister I really meant his office. Then to make matters really bad the Ombudsman got involved and it is now clear she has been lied to and has been made to look partisan. So we will have a drawn out inquiry during which time Key is a lame duck and all the political Journos even Armstrong and O’Sullivan know it. You will of coarse get smucks like Smith, Williams and that idiot Hosking still cheering Key on but lets face it unless Key is caught in the middle of an indecent act they will still support him. I raise my glass Cunliffe will be the next PM hopefully with a cabinet full of Green Party Ministers who will support a progressive Prime Minister.

    • BLiP 12.2
      22 August 2014 at 12:13 pm

      . . . I just don’t get why a bunch of well educated successful people in their own right would want to associate with let alone support an uneducated – albeit smart – narcissistic bludger born with a large silver spoon in his mouth & an even bigger sense of entitlement. Especially since he makes it obvious he doesn’t like most of them . . .

      These so-called “well-educated and successful” people don’t want to associate with Cameron Slater or even be seen to be associating with him and his crew. What they want is to use him and his ilk to to distance themselves from the practise of dirty politics. Nicky Hager explains it well in his book. Here’s a snippet from Chpater One . . .

      The idea was that Key, as party leader, would be presented as friendly and positive, while other people did the attacking . . . They [Cameron Slater, David Farrar, Matthew Hooten, Simon Lusk, Carrick Graham, Cathy Odgers, Russell Beaumont, Nikki Kaye, “Adolf Fiinkensein”, “Gooner”, “Insolent Prick”et al] would become the new experts in negative campagning – the same kind of politics described in The Hollowmen but with new tactics and technology. They would overturn the traditional relationship between politics and news media by providing blog platforms they could spread news unconstrained by the media standards of accuracy, fairness and balance. They also offered a deniable channel that could be used over and over launch attacks for politicians who wanted to keep their hands clean . . .

      . . . geddit?

      I’m not sure that this whole thing is “weird” but agree that it is “annoying” for those exposed, but itis certainly all about creativing division and undermining democracy. Watching it play out is also frustrating because there has been no actual analysis of the main questions arising from it. The current focus on Cameron Slater and specific incidents as detailed in Dirty Politics seems to be missing the wider point and full cast of characters involved in this. There certainly will be casualities but I suspect their sacrifice will be more about putting heads on pikes rather than a full scale resolution. Such a resolution will require Labour and its own tendency towards the practise of dirty politics to be acknowledged and stymied as well.

    • colin 12.3
      23 August 2014 at 9:12 am

      Discouraging voters is part of the aim. By turning it into a personality contest reducing any and all political debate on actual issues less people care enough to vote. This feeds into National’s hands as they mover further away from what most people actually want in a government of this country. That breeds resentment of the kind you see chanting from Christshurch for Dot Kom. But they fall back on dirty tricks campagin in the media to get less people to vote for him anyway because the divisions in the Labour party has stopped Cunlife coming out with any chance of a deal. More people switch off because it looks like the alternative is even worse, calling Dot Kom a nazi for channeling the strong anger at Key’s handling of Christchurch.

      Except the right, because shaved head neo-nazis, red neck farmers, angry middle aged businessmen and old people will still vote National no matter how bad the dirty tricks are. On the other Labour can’t seem to run their own house let alone a coalition thanks to the dirty tricks campagin from Slater. It’s worked very well, the question really is will the middle class voters who thought Key was mr clean actually change their vote over this and will Cunlife look credible enough to bring out support for him but also for those to the left of him?

  13. Chris 13
    22 August 2014 at 10:48 am

    “No, I didn’t know back in 2011 the precise details of the request but my office was told and that is what I was referring to back then. This is completely consistent with what I’ve been saying all along.”

  14. appleboy 14
    22 August 2014 at 11:42 am

    BM???? Fisiani?????

  15. TE 15
    22 August 2014 at 11:58 am

    John Key “There’s no more faith in thee than in a stewed prune”
    and all your loyal followers “They are hare-brain’d slaves”
    Hope he is packing as we type… Biggest smiley face

  16. Colonial Viper 16
    22 August 2014 at 12:44 pm

    Need to keep apply continuous eroding pressure to the John Key edifice of lies.

  17. tricledrown 17
    22 August 2014 at 12:54 pm

    True CV but he is taking all the limelight and not giving any room for any other party’s policy
    We have to watch we don’t slip on Whale Oil and into gutter politics as well!

  18. ianmac 18
    22 August 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Seems odd to me that there is only brief mentions on MSM as far as I can find today.
    NZ’s reputation in the World is at risk. Should it be proven beyond reasonable doubt that that Key is lying, will have much wider impact than a few votes here or there. Just before an election is especially significant but so it is for all of us.

    Mr Key could resign as PM for health reasons and Mr. English or Mr Joyce or Judith Collins could be a caretaker PM???

    • Man in a Barrel 18.1
      22 August 2014 at 2:10 pm

      Presently (1.57pm Friday) Stuff is running a story under the Headline “Video contradicts Key.”

      Given that Stuff initially played this affair dismissively and sympathetically to the Nats I begin to hope that the NZMSM has finally tired of being played for fools and, worm-like, is turning.

      I also wonder if this might be indicative of a nascent putsch shaping up in the Nats which the press are getting the scent of, and want to be on the right side of. If that’s the case expect senior Nats to start turning on the irredeemably wounded like Key and Collins in order to secure their place in the purged, wholesome new Party.

  19. tricledrown 19
    22 August 2014 at 1:06 pm

    CV National have a very Slick Advertisements while we are looking at the Whale Oil slick the Dog whistle is under the left’s radar!
    We need to get back to pushing policy Cunliffe Russell Turei have untarnished reputations now they need to say we are not getting involved in this Nasty Mess of Nationals own making we are only interested in getting regional Development Housing shortages fixed,Child poverty sorted!
    Any questions about Key should be batted away by saying the Media is finally doing its job properly we have housing regional development and child poverty policy to deal with!

  20. Red Rosa 20
    22 August 2014 at 1:13 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11312402

    Is there some sort of Israel/Key/Slater/SIS/USA connection?

    After all, the Slater OIA request arose from circumstances around the Israeli ‘tourists’ (?) treatment in ChCh during the February EQ. The Key/Tucker response, Phil Goff’s interview (remember he said he was sworn to secrecy) are getting deserved attention, but maybe how all this began needs to be looked at too?

    Is Key taking orders from Washington or Tel Aviv on this? It may go much deeper than a simple coverup of nasty blogging links. Key has proven very touchy on this topic, right from the start, and could be under real pressure to conceal some very dodgy doings.

    We know the Israeli PM phoned him within hours of the EQ. His Washington visit has been mentioned earlier on this site – does that tie in? The whole DotCom legal process is essentially being dictated by the FBI.

    If JK is playing with the big boys, no wonder he now looks gray and dead scared.

    • yeshe 20.1
      22 August 2014 at 1:41 pm

      the whole mess is so like watergate .. drip, drip drip, then suddenly there is a puddle reflecting something bigger .. +100 red rosa

    • Chooky 20.2
      22 August 2014 at 1:47 pm

      +100 Red Rosa …you make good points which need more examination…..Hugh Wolfensohn was a previous acting director …he left rather hurriedly as i recall

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/133300/former-head-of-gcsb-not-paid-out

      Shortly before Fletcher was appointed, the GCSB was found to have illegally spied on Kim Dotcom, a German national but New Zealand resident.[18] By law the agency cannot spy on New Zealand residents. The GCSB admitted that Hugh Wolfensohn, acting director at the time, knew the organisation was spying on Dotcom. It is believed Mr Wolfensohn was placed on “gardening leave” after it became clear the GCSB had made a mistake in spying on Dotcom.[19] In December, the High Court ruled Kim Dotcom could sue the GCSB for damages.[20] The attorney-general appealed the ruling, but was unsuccessful.[21][22] In March 2013, the NZ Herald reported that Wolfensohn “no longer works for the GCSB intelligence agency as it braces for fresh exposure of its failings”.[23]

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Communications_Security_Bureau

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8524181/Key-denies-any-arrests-from-illegal-spying

    • Mike 20.3
      23 August 2014 at 12:04 pm

      Is there some sort of Israel/Key/Slater/SIS/USA connection?

      I’m sure there is. I suspected as much long before the Christchurch quake.Glad to hear someone else with the same views.

      Democracy, free speech, peoples rights, values and culture are all being destroyed in the English speaking countries. Deliberately orchestrated. It’s not a “conspiracy theory” anymore. It never was, The “free” press, PC laws and endless propaganda have kept us all in the dark.

      I always thought Australia would be the last bastion of a Government, by the people for the people, but they’ve fallen now. NZ and Ireland seem to be the last free English speaking democratic countries still left standing. A change in Government is the only hope of keeping it that way.

      David Cunliffe is a patently honest man, I just hope he has the strength and moral courage of a David Lange or a Helen Clark.

  21. srylands 21
    22 August 2014 at 1:15 pm

    None of this is important. It is all just the most bizarre meaningless drivel that will mean nothing to main stream New Zealanders. Somebody was told something about something that nobody cares about 3 years ago and now there is a contest to see if some New Zealand journalists can portray members of the Government as saying something that contradicts something they said or someone else said sometime.

    Yes there is a reason that sounds stupid. It is because that is how you all come across. Mad.

    Meanwhile the rest of the world gets on with important issues. Like attracting FDI from China, improving incentives to work, raising productivity. You know. The things that actually matter to productive people who need to make a living.

    • Psycho Milt 21.1
      22 August 2014 at 1:27 pm

      Which was pretty much what I thought of the many, many Kiwiblog threads devoted to the initial mistake by Goff. I didn’t stoop low enough to look at any of the Whaleoil ones, but no doubt they made the pointless drivel on the Kiwiblog threads look sane. They still strike me as trivially stupid in a way that posts about Key’s office manipulating OIA releases aren’t…

    • mickysavage 21.2
      22 August 2014 at 1:41 pm

      So attack politics and constitutional impropriety not to mention potential criminal behaviour should be tolerated as long as we are getting more investment from China? Really??

    • MrSmith 21.3
      22 August 2014 at 2:31 pm

      Why only you and your ilk want to talk about Productivity SS.

      From 1986 to 2013, our measured labour productivity rose 58%, while the average hourly wage rose just 18% after inflation.

      The cost of labour to the employer has decreased 6.6% over the past two decades.

      But we don’t want to talk about this at the moment SS as having to much fun watching that fool Key digging for China.

    • Man in a Barrel 21.4
      22 August 2014 at 2:34 pm

      What an unbelievably brainless comment from srylands.

      It is absolutely fundamental to any democracy that its Civil Service be free of fear and favour – free of fear it will be punished for doing its job properly, and without expectation of reward for doing its job in a partisan political way.

      The idiot Collins drove a bus through that fundamental principle, and by refusing to take action against her because of it Key has essentially green-lighted it. It is more than ‘unwise’ the attack the integrity and independence of the Civil Service. It’s an adoption of the relationship between Governments and the Administration visible in so many countries, especially in Asia and South America, where the Civil Service is simply a self-seeking and accommodating arm of the Government in power for whatever injustices and abuses of power it seeks to impose.

      And that isn’t important to srylands. I suggest that is because he has grown up and flourished in a country where the Civil Service did its job properly without fear and favour from politicians, and by doing so kept those politicians and Governments in proper alignment with the powers given them by the constitution while at the same time respecting the consitutional limits and brakes on its own powers.

      And the idiot srylands wants to throw all that out with the bathwater.

      Dear God, I sometimes despair of what passes for adults in this country.

      • Hayden 21.4.1
        22 August 2014 at 2:54 pm

        What an unbelievably brainless comment from srylands.

        You must be new. 😀

      • Colonial Viper 21.4.2
        22 August 2014 at 3:12 pm

        Dear God, I sometimes despair of what passes for adults in this country.

        Srylands is a foreigner. Never been to NZ, never worked in NZ. A paid political hack, most likely.

        • Man in a Barrel 21.4.2.1
          22 August 2014 at 3:41 pm

          Oh, right.

          Then I hope he benefits from the free education available here.

          • Pasupial 21.4.2.1.1
            23 August 2014 at 2:57 pm

            MiaB

            Srylands seems incapable of learning anything, he’s just here to threadjack (click on his name in the comment sidebar to confirm by examining his history; if you have a resilient mind, and many free hours to waste). He must have just come off his most recent ban, as he’s been rather quiet – though I may missed him with my sporadic reading of TS of late.

            His free-market idiotology is all he appears to require. Thatcher once asserted that there was no such thing as society and he’s never doubted her proclamation. Engaging with him is a total waste of time and effort.

        • srylands 21.4.2.2
          23 August 2014 at 2:32 pm

          Wow – I thought you were the foreigner last time I looked. What a dick you are.

        • srylands 21.4.2.3
          23 August 2014 at 2:39 pm

          and also the very fact that you use the term “foreigner” in a derogatory way shows how xenophobic you are. You are scared witless of reason and science so you practice your mumbo jumbo craft on unsuspecting hicks in Dunedin. You do immense damage to people. Yet every time I say something reasonable you spit bile and pull the race card. You are the worst example here of what the left have become in New Zealand.

          I have never been in New Zealand? What a dick. I will be spending ALL of next week in Christchurch. Just let me know where you would like to meet. I am sure you can get off your arse and make the trip from Dunedin for the day.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 21.4.2.3.1
            23 August 2014 at 5:07 pm

            S Rylands plays the race card then attempts a Rovian strategy, a flailing failure; he must be getting concerned about the election result. Little leeches who sell false beliefs to willing buyers may experience a significant loss of income when the buyer is in opposition.

    • You_Fool 21.5
      22 August 2014 at 2:51 pm

      and of course the right wingers never spent countless hours typing posts on when David Cunliffe forgot stuff said years in the past, nor tried to paint him as “tricky” over his changes in position over the period of 15 odd years.

      But you are right, there is much more important things to talk about… so what is National’s policy on child poverty again? Are they measuring it? Whats the plan for Christchurch? Auckland housing crisis? Or does taking 0.20c off some nails magically have a whole heap of houses built? Oh, how about free up some land 50km away from the city centre, and then build mcmansions on them and sell them for 1mill + – Yep that solves the problems!

    • emergency mike 21.6
      22 August 2014 at 7:21 pm

      And the tr0lls and sock puppets who must have been in Hawaii or something for the last week are back.

      They seem to have been sprung back to life by the video of Key saying that Tucker briefed him about the OIA release. Check out the ‘go blue’ comments in the stuff article.

      It’s really impressive how they all consistently have same objections. No one cares about this, we are too busy working to help our families, or: who remembers everything, policy is more important. There’s also a lot of banging on about this mysterious monolithic organisation called ‘the left’ that is behind it all.

      No independent thinking, just repeating Key’s very same excuses. #teamkeyslater still trying.

  22. srylands 22
    22 August 2014 at 1:27 pm

    What to expect from the media today. Seriously, this is what you are falling for.

    4.30am Hacked emails on Whale Dump

    John Key: “Jason I’m hungry, get me some babies”
    Jason Eade: “Will do boss”

    6.00am: Breakfast TV: “Shocking allegations PM eats babies”

    6.30am: NZ Herald online:-massive headlines “Does PM Eats Babies?”

    10.00am: PM mobbed by hacks as he opens a sock factory in Matamata. Patrick Gower – with deeply furrowed forehead – demands of Key “Prime Minister can you categorically deny that you have ever eaten a baby” John Key – “yes Patrick”

    11.00am: Cunliffe breaks down on camera with John Campbell “The poor little blue eyed things” he sobs.

    12.30pm: The Green Party claim to have a sworn avadavat from parliamentary staffer now in hiding, saying “she noticed empty baby buggies leaving the PM’s office in the dead of night.

    2.15pm: Laila Harre issues press statement saying, “John Key’s use of the word ’Sugar Daddy’ showed a Freudian connection between people and food

    4pm: PM mobbed by hacks as he arrives at a Kiwifruit orchard in Te Puke. Corin Dann asks “PM can you categorically deny you sent that shocking email to Jason Eade”. John Key – “No Corin, I have checked with my office, I did send it. But Whale dump left out one word. It actually read -Jason I’m hungry, get me some jelly babies”

    5pm. NZ Herald online headline “PM concedes he ate junk food”

    And so it will continue the next day. As we head off on tangent after tangent while the rest of the world concentrates on the important task of becoming prosperous.

    • appleboy 22.1
      22 August 2014 at 1:41 pm

      That effort took effort than facing reality for a moment. Your PM caught telling lies is ‘meaningless” What a stunning admission.

      A true Nat – why be true when you can just spin lies?

      I was wondering when the deafening silence of stunned mullet righties would end.

      • appleboy 22.1.1
        22 August 2014 at 1:45 pm

        OH and as for Srylandip’s pathetic comment ‘let’s focus on the economy – are you a short man? what you think we can’t focus on the economy AND deal with little matters of integrity?

        To follow your world view, if the economy is all right forget things like truth honesty and integrity?

        My god..the right wing ideology laid bare there.

    • lprent 22.2
      22 August 2014 at 1:55 pm

      …..while the rest of the world concentrates on the important task of becoming prosperous.

      National? You’re kidding aren’t you.

      All they ever do is to put us into debt and change the economy so it is less viable for the country as a whole (but good for their MPs). That is why our economy have a ridiculous and every increasing over dependence on dairy and insurance payments at present.

      I think that you are a bit delusional.

    • Man in a Barrel 22.3
      22 August 2014 at 2:53 pm

      ” As we head off on tangent after tangent while the rest of the world concentrates on the important task of becoming prosperous.” – syrlands

      I think you meant to write; ” As we head off on tangent after tangent while the rest of the world’s 1% concentrates on the important task of becoming prosperous.”

      “The nature of our growth today is markedly different than in the decades after World War II,” [Stiglitz] says. “There, we had shared prosperity. More recently, what we’ve had is exactly the opposite. … Right now, most Americans are worse off than they were 15 years ago. There has not been shared prosperity.”

      http://www.npr.org/2012/06/05/154345390/growing-economic-inequality-endangers-our-future

  23. dv 23
    22 August 2014 at 1:32 pm

    “concentrates on the important task of becoming prosperous.

    Nz debt is now
    $85,698,535,811

  24. AmaKiwi 24
    22 August 2014 at 1:35 pm
    1. The journalists are clearly pissed as hell. It’s evident in the way they aggressively question Key at press conferences and on the campaign trail. At last they are acting like court room lawyers, demanding precise answers instead of settling for platitudes and generalities.
    2. National is now starved for oxygen in the MSM. Whatever “good news” stories they planned to roll out for the election are buried under Collins-Key-Ede-Slater-etc. bad news headline stories.
    3. Today’s poll began the day of Hager’s book release. Many could ignore it for the first few days. But come the next poll the public will have had 2 weeks of solid attacks on Key-Collins which the public will not ignore. I am hearing outrage in my community.
    4. Key’s public persona is being demolished. Mr. Easy Going Nice Guy is now constantly on the defensive. If you have to explain, you’ve already lost the argument.
  25. cogito 25
    22 August 2014 at 1:48 pm

    Anyone seen this re Slater and his trip to Israel? – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2014/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503581&objectid=11312402

    So according to the Israeli Embassy, Slater is “fair-minded” and “spiritual”.

    • Colonial Viper 25.1
      22 August 2014 at 2:18 pm

      Matches the fair mindedness and the spirit of the Israeli military attacking and suppressing Gaza.

    • Chooky 25.2
      22 August 2014 at 2:59 pm

      @ cogito…”according to the Israeli Embassy, Slater is “fair-minded” and “spiritual”.” (!) lol…

      ….that is pretty gob smacking…lost for words….but I guess considering who described him that way…it is NOT surprising

  26. reason 26
    22 August 2014 at 2:38 pm

    Key is much closer and more hands on with slater than what has come out so far …. thats what I think.

    srylands was telling us all here at the standard how he gives money to whale soil …………… how much money srylands ?.

    Still sticking up for the super creep and king of sleaze?.

    Advertisers are pulling adds from whale sick so maybe he needs the cash even more now.

    But then again the unholy trinity of the booze money, tobacco money and national party money will keep the slugs head above water.

    Oh and I forgot the Israelis give him money or something to be a cheerleader for killing children and innocents in ‘self defense’.

    John Key and slater will have much more time for their chats after the election.

  27. Chooky 27
    22 August 2014 at 3:03 pm

    +100 reason…and

    ‘Pak’nSave pull adverts from Whaleoil’

    By Martyn Bradbury / August 22, 2014

    “Congratulations for Pak’NSave on making this type of ethical stand. They are showing more moral compass than Canon…

  28. NZJester 28
    22 August 2014 at 3:06 pm

    The main thing that also puts Key so firmly in the center of this is the justification the SIS gave for declassifying this politically sensitive information and granting the OIA. They granted the OIA only because the information they said had already been made public knowledge. How did this secret and politically sensitive information no one outside the SIS should have known about become public knowledge so that it could be declassified for released in the first place. Well the minister of the SIS named John Key broke confidentiality and used this politically sensitive SIS information in the house to goad the opposition while he had legal protection to do so. John Key no matter how you look at it was ultimately the one one who declassified the information so that the SIS could release this information on his opponent. All roads lead to John Key in this very shady bit of manipulation of politically sensitive SIS information.

    • yeshe 28.1
      22 August 2014 at 8:38 pm

      1000% nzjester .. let’s hope this ‘original sin’ is covered by the official investigation .. but somehow, i suspect not.

      by any chance, do you what date it was, without me needing to check thru hansard ? be good to have it writ large that it can be noticed.

    • ianmac 28.2
      22 August 2014 at 9:24 pm

      Good point NZJ!

  29. Bill 29
    22 August 2014 at 5:14 pm

    Dunno what thread to post this on, but… http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2014/252739/pm-willing-to-go-under-oath-over-documents

    Mr Key said today that when he used the word “me” in the 2011 media conference it referred to his office and he stands by his statement – that his office knew about the document release but he personally did not.

    Coincidentally Radio Head is repeating the refrain ‘You’re living in a fantasy’. Saves me having to articulate a take on it I guess 😉

    • cogito 29.1
      22 August 2014 at 5:26 pm

      Problem is that he is wriggling out of it with his trademark arrogant smirk….

    • emergency mike 29.2
      22 August 2014 at 5:30 pm

      So Tucker told ‘his office’ about it under the no surprises doctrine, but his office never told him. Is this how the no surprises doctrine is supposed to work?

      Also, when John Key says “x told me about y,” are we now to understand that x might not have told him about y? Some might call that grossly misleading. Some might say it’s absurd and ridiculous beyond by any reasonable measure.

      What about when he says “I don’t have the details about that?” Does that mean that ‘his office’ doesn’t know about that?

      Now where did I put my fruit loops?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 29.2.1
        24 August 2014 at 7:35 am

        Your fruit loops? Or your office’s?

        Clinton quibbled over the meaning of the word ‘is’ – Key quibbles over the meaning of the word ‘me’.

        At that point it doesn’t matter whether his “position is correct”, because his statements cannot be taken at face value by anyone on any subject, and the media are finally in a position to challenge him on it.

  30. Tanz 30
    22 August 2014 at 5:31 pm

    He looks so guilty. I wonder if for once, he regrets ever becoming PM. Chickens coming home to roost…what timing.

  31. Rob 31
    22 August 2014 at 5:54 pm

    It certainly looks like the Emperor has lost his clothes
    They say you can tell when he lies
    Yes it’s when his mouth moves

  32. Inky 32
    22 August 2014 at 6:36 pm

    Get ready for four more weeks of (im)plausible deniability. You’d think the dopey toerag would just shuffle off centre-left stage and spare himself the embarrassment. He and Collins have got more front than Brighton. They’ve been caught dead to rights over and over but cling on like filthy, blood-sucking leeches on NZ’s back. Absolutely no accountability and no shame. Welcome to the banana republic.

  33. Inky 33
    22 August 2014 at 6:38 pm

    Oops, my bad, of course I meant centre-right, not centre-left.

  34. Rich 34
    22 August 2014 at 7:36 pm

    Easy mistake…

    More front than where?

    • tc 34.1
      22 August 2014 at 7:44 pm

      Brighton beach I think as in beachfront.

      You also get melbournians ‘more front than myers’ as in storefront.

  35. emergency mike 35
    22 August 2014 at 7:57 pm

    Just listened to Key talking about this latest piece of bullshit. To me he sounded reasonably confident that he can lawyer talk his way out of this point regarding the inquiry with the ridiculous ‘me means my office’ line.

    Whether the public will be happy to accept that when John Key says “I was told about x,” that doesn’t necessarily mean that he was told about x, might be another matter.

    However, this particular line of attack is starting to get back to familiar feeling territory. Who knew what and when and what does it mean etc. It’s getting a bit too complicated for the attention span of the average 6 o’clock news punter. We have seen this kind of thing get successfully spun away before.

    The tr0lls are suddenly back out in force on this one. The line is ‘we have more important things to worry about’. I’m starting to feel like we are being baited, like they are happy to argue about this one – back on familiar ground.

    To me the weak points are therefore not so much this, but Judith Collins – why has she not resigned? And Jason Ede, what is his relationship with senior Nats/Key? (Plus Lusk, Slater, and the rest of the sociopthic gang.) These are the two areas where Key looks worried and vulnerable.

    • yeshe 35.1
      22 August 2014 at 8:43 pm

      and maybe have a look at 28 above .. must not be forgotten where it began and it’s recorded in Hansard. the duplicity is almost academic after that .. it all began with Key in the House. now this is a smoking cannon …

      • emergency mike 35.1.1
        22 August 2014 at 9:12 pm

        Yes good point there from Jester above. Key brought it up in the house, then Slater got his OIA request on the matter processed in record time while others were denied. Coincidence? u decide.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 35.2
      23 August 2014 at 5:14 pm

      Collins’ and Ede’s emails and messages have not yet been released. Then it’s the industrial and PR stuff is my guess.

      Do Ede at the conference and Collins on Monday morning? Last last last political material?

    • UglyTruth 35.3
      24 August 2014 at 8:22 am

      The tr0lls are suddenly back out in force on this one. The line is ‘we have more important things to worry about’.

      Seriously, you do have more important thinks to worry about. Like how the connection between Slater and Key is symptomatic of a deeper problem, and how by participating in the civil process you are simply giving cover for corruption, with no hope of ever finding a remedy for dirty politics.

      Slater is a pro-Zionist hypocrite, Collins is dishonourable and vindictive, and Key’s evasion puts him in the same position as Bush senior, at the nexus of honourable conservative values and the dark side of western elitism. But these issues are minor compared to the hypocrisy present in conservative tradition that has been present since before Europeans settled here, the hypocrisy of the superficial expression of Christian values (i.e. the parliamentary prayer and the religious role of the head of state) in the context of a secular state which rejects the historical facts regarding the role of deity in democracy.

      • Rich 35.3.1
        24 August 2014 at 10:31 am

        Is it the pope you’re talking about? He’s not exactly a democrat. Can you point to me another religion where democracy holds court, you know where the followers (there you go destroyed by words) get to elect their local priest?

        And isn’t the deity a zionist? I’m pretty sure he said if you believe in me you can have all the land that you want.

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