Written By: - Date published: 12:07 pm, May 13th, 2010 - 154 comments
Categories: john key, maori party -
Tags: mars2earth, tuhoe
Marty Mars said the following in comments
This is too far, too much insult it is time for the maori party to leave there is no other option.
What he is referring to is this following Radio NZ article
Prime Minister John Key has joked about Tuhoe being cannibals during a speech to a tourism audience in Auckland.
Mr Key has been at loggerheads with Tuhoe this week since he ruled out the return of the Urewera National Park as part of the iwi’s proposed treaty settlement.
Tuhoe have accused the Prime Minister of betrayal, while the Maori Party has said the Government acted in bad faith.
Mr Key has defended the Government’s decision, saying vesting the national park in the iwi would be a step too far for most New Zealanders.
In a speech on Thursday morning Mr Key joked about the dispute with Tuhoe.
“The good news is that I was having dinner with Ngati Porou as opposed to their neighbouring iwi, which is Tuhoe, in which case I would have been dinner,” he said, “which wouldn’t have been quite so attractive.”
He said the Government would work its way through the challenges.
Marty Mars has a short post at his Mars2Earth on it.
I find myself having to agree with him. That ‘joke’ is insulting and quite distasteful. It appears to be part of a recent continuing pattern by this government.
I’d hazard a guess that they’re worried about polling numbers amongst their own voters, and getting some interesting blowback from their members at recent regional conferences.
Update: It appears that John Key has made the international news with his ‘joke’. The Guardian and The Telegraph both have stories and the northern hemisphere is just waking up. Not content as tourism minister with destroying the 21st most valuable brand in the world, he is now screwing up our reputation on indigenous relations as well. He really is clueless.
Facebook
Twitter
Scoopit!
He was talking about Australian cannibals.
Is this a dig at our nearest neighbours or did you not read/hear the words said?
The reference was clearly to Tuhoe, and made as a joke with attendant laughter in the voice.
‘Cept it ain’t funny, as would be a similar reference to our Australian cousins be unfunny.
I’ve just finished a season of a Roger Hall play in which I delivered a line lightly derogatory to Australians. Screams of laughter with most other laugh lines, but that one tended to be much less enjoyed. I wonder if we are getting more mature as a society.
Mac1, easy. It’s a reference to the fact that when Key said “I want to see wages drop” he later claimed to be referring to Australian wages.
A pretty oblique reference, but nevertheless.
L
Thanks, Lew. So oblique I got blind-sided by it.
Roger Hall tended to be a bit less subtle, and me a bit too anally retentive!
That cracked me up Maynard – a oldy but a goody.
captcha: ‘mistaking’ lolz
Heh, understandable Mac…there tends to be several of these phrases that Key has used to sidestep poor decisions or offensive comments. Mostly they are in relation to the ‘wages drop’ fiasco. ‘It was Australian wages’ ‘The journalist misheard’ etc….kinda like the Palinism of ‘I can see Canada from my house’ but not so widely known
And Maynard J, sorry that I got you wrong. Obviously, the RWNJs missed your subtlety as well.
Hey no worries, honest mistake. I was just trying to preempt the diversions and defences that were likely to be forthcoming. And sure enough, it’s all “but in 2002 Clark said X…” so I failed on that count
It was in a prepared speech. Not just an off-the-cuff remark. Not just another John Keyism, opening his mouth and mangling the language.
So either he knew it would offend, or he’s too stupid to realize that.
Either way it looks bad.
Not so sure about that. Referring to events from the previous 24 hours and the given political context, it could have just been plain old idiocy, an example of a confident politician winging it. No sane speechwriter would put that sort of thing into prepared comments, they live in deathly fear of these moments.
Not that it matters very much either way — what was said was said.
L
It is not in the formal speech notes (http://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/speech+2010+new+zealand+hotel+industry+conference)
Agreed that either he wanted to offend or was just too stupid to realise it.
I look forward to seeing Turia’s response.
Public response so far is fairly mild — but it’s also not characteristic to respond to this sort of thing in public.
L
yes there are many times that call for the quiet word down the hall but there is the begging question…
how many times has a New Zealand Prime Minister alluded to Maori cannibalism?
I thought Tamati Kruger’s response that it was “in poor taste” was not only diplomatic and restrained, but very clever.
Toad, right. He’s still negotiating.
L
the comment was repeated twice, two different times, to two different audiences (both monotone white, of course)
What an appalling comment.
You know, I was pissed off by his ‘take it or leave it’ comments the other day too after he stabbed Tuhoe in the back.
The settlements process is about righting past wrongs, not about the Crown cutting the toughest deal it can with iwi, as if it’s some commercial transaction.
Key just doesn’t seem to understand these things. He is trying to do a big job while stuck in the small-minded world of a money trader
You’ve nailed it, BR. He’s trying to treat treaty settlement negotiations like a transation — value in/value out — with no consideration for the deeper issues in play. It’s frightening.
L
you got it he is trying to do the toughest deal he can with iwi.
He cant see the big picture and he does think hes the funniest man in nz
>>>>He said the Government would work its way through the challenges.
and then added ” trust me.
>>>Joke? Or deliberate insult?
haha – that really is scraping the barrel…..surely you can do better than this ?!
Yes Key was scraping the bottom of the barrel and yes, as a country, not only can we do better than this we should expect much better than this from a PM.
hmmm, i can see where your coming from, but, and that’s a big but, when you refer to being eaten for dinner, it’s the same as i’m going to be eaten alive if i go into that room, or terms to that affect. It is a term of phrase that people tend to use off the cuff from time to time.
do I think JK said this deliberately to cause offence … no.
do i think that on reflection he will realise that he shouldn’t have said it … yes.
do i think he said it in a manner that has been misinterpreted, yes.
So yea, either way i think he was silly to say it given the history, but i don’t think he did it intentionally.
How about it being a bad thing to say given the complex history between TÅ«hoe and NgÄti Porou, which involved cannibalism (as well as war, betrayal, disputes over land, differing allegiances to the Crown and missionaries, etc.)?
L
that was what i was referring to when i wrote this line:
“either way i think he was silly to say it given the history”
Oh, ok. I withdraw and apologise, then.
L
no need to apologise. no one lost an eye
You really think Key is that dumb?
“Silly” doesn’t capture it, “Incompetent” comes close. In a business setting he would be disciplined or fired (but then, so would most of them).
This is a tricky time for NZ. We need a competent PM, not a lightweight out to add the top job to his CV. If we as a nation insist on voting these idiots back in, and I hope we don’t, can we at least have a proper PM?
Captcha: WE. Key could productively spend some time meditating on that.
“We need a competent PM…” – absolutely. We need a leader with gravitas, not just a smile and wave.
I wouldn’t say that Goff had “gravitas” though.
I’m not going to disagree with that, but I do think that Goffs words would be a lot more measured. He also wouldn’t come across when being “interviewed” by Sainsbury as being a guest on a TV talk show.
It was in the prepared text of a speech from what I can see. That makes it much more probable of being deliberate wouldn’t you say?
Edit: Maybe not part of the prepared text – see Mickey on this comment
What was offensive about this comment was as much the context as the joke itself – after completely pulling the rug out from under Tuhoe, making them seriously lose face and leaving them with a sense of betrayal and dismay – after that he makes light of it as if it’s just a bit of a hiccup and quite funny really…
Any worse than “haters and wreckers”?
Far worse. Good attempted diversion however.
says impartial micky
If you think haters and wreckers was bad, and you do because you mention it every other day, then you must think this is bad too. Indeed, this is far worse because it is appealling to a deep-seated racist myth, Clark’s comments could have been made about any group, they’re not inherently racist.
Or is it only bad when Clark does it?
Clarks comment was stupid, but it was made about a small set of specific individuals, not a general group.
feral inbred (or something similar )as a reference to Westcoaster, but I guess that was different.
Of course it was different, Clark said it [ahh, no, she didn't --r0b] and according to these guys Clark could do no wrong [fool!].
[lprent: If you look through the posts on this site, or even in the comments, you'll find very little on Helen Clark. I know, I ran a statistical study of the comments and posts from when we started to the 2008 election. Moreover, the people who spent their time talking about Helen Clark were wingnuts like you.
Adding you to my personal troll re-education queue because your comments are verging on trolling again. They are stupid assertions about this site with no backing. ]
Silly me I keep forgetting Labour Good, National Bad mantra.
[lprent: Where have you been for the last few years. With your head stuffed up your arse? The authors and commentators (including and especially the left ones) here tend to have frequent go's at Labour for one reason or another, all of the time. I guess that you're just too ignorant to recognise it. Or more likely you just ignore anything that doesn't fit your bone-headed preconceptions.
Adding you to my personal troll re-education queue for making stupid assertions about this site with no backing. ]
Here’s me thinking the left had a sense of humour
, my comment was direct at BB. As for your ascertions about me made with no backing…
[lprent: Try scanning the hundreds of comments that go thru here everyday... Your sense of humour gets distinctly jaded about people coming in to disrespect the site.
Because of the comment listing, I see every comment in reverse time stamp order, I'm often unaware of context unless I jump to the thread. Which I didn't in this case, because your comment was a classic wingnut trolling one
Perhaps you shouldn't be such as good a mimic 
Sorry, and releasing from purgatory. ]
And when Key refers to people as cannibals it’s OK because of something Helen Clark said years ago?
Stellar thinking there. Really top stuff.
Ahh – the “feral inbreds” lie. Clark referred to “fairly feral attitudes” and denied making any comment about “inbred” at all. Another right wing nut job urban myth.
feral inbreds, cancerous & corrosive, last cab of the rank – that ring a bell ?
They were not jokes, either, this is.
Like I said, the post on this is REALLY scrapping the barrel.
Wonder if Mr. 7% will play this, hopefully he does, as he always end’s off worse off!!
Hamish you give some ‘quotes’ of past slurs. I have the idea that the ‘feral inbreds’ was actually a reporter’s choice of words to interpret something said.
In the current case Key said Tuhoe would have had him for dinner. It was Radio NZ News that interpreted that as speaking of cannibalism.
So it is interesting if dodgy interpretive reporters are confusing the messages we hear.
One message that we did receive was that Tuhoe don’t rate, they’re good for a quick throw-away quip, that considering the Maori Party and showing respect for a political partner, all these don’t count. This guy should be stowed away for November 5th.
No, prism, Key’s words were that he would “be on the menu”. That’s obviously not intended literally, but neither is it an established trope or idiom like “to have one for dinner” is. There’s no malicious interpretation here.
L
I just watched it – not “on the menu ” eL
“..ahh the good news is that I was having dinner ah with Ngati Porou – as opposed to their neighbouring iwi which is Tuhoe – which case I would of been dinner – slurp”.
What is it with the geez shucks slurping?
“Quotes” of past slurs – implying that said quotes may not exist?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10402966
Quote: Last week Helen Clark said: “I can’t state too strongly that Labour regards Dr Brash as a corrosive and cancerous person within the New Zealand political system.”
John Key should not have joked about Tuhoe being cannibals
Helen Clark should not have called the leader of the opposition corrosive and cancerous.
Simple, really …
So… you’re agreeing that what key said was an appeal to a racist myth and wrong because of that.
Oh, and you found another example of someone saying something they shouldn’t have years ago. That’s nice.
Graham, have you read The Hollow men?
NZ dodged a bullet when Brash lost.
Only one bullet?. We were being lined up with a Gatling Gun.
Err. No Brash is both corrosive and cancerous. Read the productivity report he made and we paid hundreds of thou for.
Hamish
The only question you need to ask is:
What would be the reaction – on the right-wing blogosphere, in the media, from National, and indeed from yourself – if Phil Goff had said this?
You know the answer. A shit storm.
Get an umbrella.
Keys comment will only angry morons.
Key won’t loose anything over this.
learn to spell, drongo
So, Tuhoe are morons?
cannibalistic morons if the Right is to be believed.
Keep digging Hamish.
And learn to spell and a bit of grammer. Your comments look idiotic otherwise.
Nice, play the man not the topic!
So on topic…
Do you think Key should apologise? If so why, if not why not?
Not a good look Micky.
It’s grammar not grammer.
Things tend to fall a bit flat if you make the same mistake.
Doh!
I do know how to spell it.
You does?
L
Actually Lew, reading his comment it is spelt IT. It’s words with more than two letters that are the problem.
I must admit when I put in the earlier comment I must have read it five or six times
to make absolutely sure that I hadn’t spelt something wrongly.
It’s just so easy to get the spelling wrong and then have it there forever.
They get angry over the smallest of things.
Best to ignore them.
Because ignoring and disregarding MÄori grievances worked really well so far, right?
L
Silly Tuhoe, getting angry over the death of their families, their land being taken from them and the government not working fairly with them.
Gawd help him.
He rubs insolence into injury, wraps that with jest and smile,
and offers that to the media, with a nod and a wink to particular factions of his constituency.
This speaks more about himself cannibalising Mana while he dines on the Maori Party’s confidence and supply agreement.
The Maori Party has been paying too high a price for their complicity with the NAct Govt.
This dick is the PM. He insults the people he is negotiating with – that is a tactic. He insults them with an iwi where there are very complex relations resulting from the very thing they are negotiating to settle – that is a tactic. Why is he even involved? What do his negotiating team think of this I wonder.
This also plays to my meme of leaving them alone to break up. Labour does not need to put up its statement – just watch this oil and water seperate.
>>>Because ignoring and disregarding MÄori grievances worked really well so far, right?
Never said that. What I did say, however, is when they throw their toys out of the cot [like this] it is best to ignore…
You heard the dog whistle loud and clear didn’t you.
Here boy, heeeerrreee boy.
Get in behind.
Hang on. Tamati Kruger and Te Ururoa Flavell have held their nerve and seem to see this as more of an extension of the negotiative gameplaying. But you can bet they’re not so relaxed behind closed doors. Their price just went up.
L
if we do see it as a purposeful act, a negotiating ploy, then it’s really playing hard ball and only provokes Tuhoe, making a deal even harder.
It’s not like a market where Key can just walk away and everyone goes on with life.
Is there a political or strategic advantage for National in making a settlement with Tuhoe impossible?
Key will have done plenty of negotiations in his working life, and he will know that sometimes your best tactic is to scupper the negotiation before the first meeting.
I was thinking the same thing yesterday when 7% gave some talk, and surprise surprise, the lap dog’s here jumped!
The irony in the quote is that Key thinks he should feature prominetly on the menu. Again, it’s all about me, me, me with him. He really is alarmingly arrogant.
… and self centred!
He is claiming that it was nothing more than a joke. Even if that were so, he could not help but know what the connotation of such a joke would be seen to be. In my book, that makes him an ignorant racist.
What i find offensive is the fact that Key actually thinks that he would be worth eating.
I see a man on a one lane cycle way to nowhere almost reaching his destination.
Well whatever the intentions behind the comment, it seems to have spread quickly around the MSM, and is now listed as the top story on http://news.google.co.nz/
Also there is this extra quote in the NZH report, taken from News ZB:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10644666
“When asked afterwards whether he [Key] thought Tuhoe would get the joke he replied “I’m sure they will”.”
Good to see Key getting roasted
As soon as Keith Locke says sorry for all his racist, bigoted, hateful anti american BS comments over the years, then key should say sorry.
Other wise the standard is just setting different standards for different politicans.
So, it’s alright for John Key to be a racist if someone else is (in your view)?
Loving those standards, brett.
America is not a race, Brett. And Keith Locke is not a racist. You and Goober, I’m not so sure about.
Keith Locke must be held to account for all his comments, when he’s running the country.
Meanwhile, back on Planet Reality … what say we worry about the guy who’s actually got the job?
>>>Keep digging Hamish. And learn to spell and a bit of grammer. Your comments look idiotic otherwise.
Focus on what I’m saying, not how I go about saying it. You only look idiotic if you choose to focus on the last one.
I think quite apart from the issue of how hugely offensive the comment is for issues of cannibalism etc (umm dog whistling bullshit stereotypes anyone??) the PM should not be backhanding important issues like Treaty settlements with quick laugh one liners.
This is a very crucial settlement and the process itself (let alone Tuhoe) need respect from the ‘leader’ of our country. He should not be insulting anybody for cheap laughs in the same way a school teacher might to get ‘in’ with rowdy 3rd formers. He should be able to have a joke sure…but not about grievances the State has been working on for years.
He is an idiot. and an idiot with power. super.
Cripes, Margaret, teachers are like Key? We use cheap, racist, and offensive jokes to get in with rowdy year 9′s? Not this one.
I’m glad you use the qualifier ‘might’ but would prefer the generalising and not easily ‘understandable’ (refer your earlier comment above) analogy be not made, and I’m on your side.
heh must just be talking about my own teaching style then…not racist jokes…but def lame ones
I do gold lame jokes, myself. With tassels. In good taste. Definitely.
Well the old colonial gentry are back in the saddle now sucking up to the the US imperialists. The MP are the kupapa, and when the Tuhoe resist they are demonised. Labour already had a go at using the ‘terror’ label. Everything is in place for any opposition to this NACT regime to be dealt to as ‘terrorism’. Need to unite all the fights as the only answer to state terror is mass resistance and organisation.
Regardless of your politics, this is a pretty major faux pa. While the anti-PC brigade might say certain reaction is tut-tuting, this comment is highly offensive – higher on the scale of offensiveness than the infamous Prince Phillip “slitty-eyed” comment on holidaying in China.
I would even go as far as saying that John Key did not mean to say it, it is far too glib, and must’ve been an on the go thing, as the ‘handlers’ would have never let it pass.
Can you ever imagine past Prime Ministers refering to their own living citizens as cannibals?
Key’s had the opportunity to say ‘whops, sorry if i caused any offence’ and he didn’t.
If it was a mistake initially, it’s not now.
captcha – ‘desperate’. I love how quickly things spin out of control for this idiot. Last week he was on the verge of settling a terrible injustice with a largely symbolic act (Tuhoe already run parts of the Ureweras as a fiefdom and there would be no cahnge to public access). Now, he’s delivered a one-two punch to his alliance with the Maori Party that will either destroy the alliance or the MP.
he made the same comment on two separate occasions. must have thought it was a really funny one worth repeating
national needs to get back ground they’ve lost with their recent pro-maori attitude, so why not cash in on a hot topic by letting kiwis know that tuhoe’s claim for ownership of the urewera park is off the table.
what the govt is doing is catering to the fear kiwis have of a maori uprising, lol, then craftily constructing ways (perhaps a 10 year see how it goes plan to return the land) in which to settle claims. all so that they (govt) can grease everyone up.
after the racial debate has done it’s dash the public wouldn’ve forgotten the issue and moved on, the racists would’ve got their fix and moved on, and those actually sitting around the negotiating table will talk the ‘real’ talk all ‘jokes’ aside.
First slip on the greasy poll-driven tightrope of promising all things to all people and riding a wave and a grin – and quite spectacularly bad. Surprised it hasn’t happened sooner, but don’t misunderestimate the potentially fatal damage done here.
In many quarters this will be seen as far worse than the over-egged F&S “storm”. While the latter was quite properly held aloft as a focus for the establishment of the long-awaited pan-maori political force, the context in which Labour acted is well understood. Not admitted overtly, nor accepted as excuse, but understood. For all the rallying “greatest confiscation” rhetoric, no one ever really expected title; nor anything more than the pale “Clayton’s F&S” now proposed by NACT.
But this latest slap is a doozy: out of the blue from a “friend”, sans any possible mitigating political context like the Brash-manufactured redneckery whirlwind, and smack on top of the Whanau Ora kneecap and “no practical effect” DRIP mutterings – not to mention the numerous dead rats already swallowed.
Real rage here, that won’t easily dissipate. And now compounded in the worst way possible – a “puwha-and-pakeha” “joke” from the humour-deficit party. The Smiling Snake reappears.
Possibly the result of a second serious error in the NACT’s internal polling: first on mining, and now on racial tension. Or perhaps someone in Tuhoe just refused to kiss the emperor’s shoes.
Whatever the reason, this won’t go away: the MP knows it must deliver big or divorce within a year. Whether it hangs on in for a few more crumbs, or forces the issue now, will be interesting to see and should unfold in the coming weeks. I’d suggest that now is the hour: on latest form it should be obvious that NACT won’t hestitate to unleash another Orewa One near the election should the polls dictate. This is worse than F&S: force them to peak early again, or risk total impotence.
Policy Parrot said “Regardless of your politics, this is a pretty major faux pa.”
Is a “faux pa” an imitation Maori village for French tourists?
Good one I2.
The problem for the MP is that leaving the ‘alliance’ will kill the whanau ora program. That will leave some of their influential backers like Waipareira in the lurch. I think the MP may have placed themselves in the position of not being able to back out, even if they would like too.
I think they can back out because their programs are all barbed – the programs cannot be withdrawn without damage – to get the barb out you have to push through. Whanau ora cannot be withdrawn – it can be judged to be a failure – different story. The UN dec cannot be undone. Can’t get rid of the flag or say we will not revoke the F&S act.
Distateful? Since when speaking the truth is distateful? Calling a spade a spade is always good.
Some Maori tribes each other, so what’s wrong with saying it?
I’m calling you a lousy speller. And a bit of a moron.
I think our Corporate Merrill Lynch Prime Minister, used to cosy offices and suited colleagues was not being insulting but merely truthful in showing his elite distaste for messy stuff like Maori Historical grievances. If National had its way all this 19c stuff would be dead and buried long ago. The Urewera Maori are not rational corporate actors,they used to eat people rather than cannibilize consumer suckers ! The latter is far more civilized.
Key may have been reading the newspapers. A recent s Dom Post (Wednesday?) had two letters berating National for giving too much to Maori – which the DomPost chose to put first in the letters to the Editor.
awesome
the guy is G W Bush 2
The posts here are funnier than Keys joke, what a beat up.It only proves how desperate the Mr 7% party are to find some traction.
To all those here claiming cannibalism is a myth I suggest you read Paul Moons book ( history professor at Te Ara Poutama, the Maori Development Unit at the Auckland University of Technology.) This Horrid Practice
Please encourage Goofy to come up with some iron clad polcies that will improve NZ as a whole.
And not just spend borrowed money, I’d hate us to become the Greek Islands of the South Pacific, wouldn’t you?
“Policy Parrot said “Regardless of your politics, this is a pretty major faux pa.’
Is a “faux pa’ an imitation Maori village for French tourists?”
Freudian slip, me thinks – meant faux pas. @I2 – Interesting about French “pas” – google Marion du Fresne
A not particularly funny joke but a joke for all that.
The only people protesting are likely to be those who believe John Key to be the devil incarnate.
Oh for the old days when we laughed at the REAL insults that David Lange uttered.
Wasn’t it hilarious when he called out to Margaret Thatcher that she had forgotten her broomstick?
Didn’t we say what a wit he was?
Ah but he was on our side so could do no wrong.
Marty, if the MP walk my understanding is that all bets are off. In that case the Government can reneg on repealing the F & S Act and reneg on the whanau ora program. If the MP walk there is little incentive for the government to maintain those agreements, given their traditional constituency and the damage is all ready done.
seems to me that Key is sitting in the exact same seat as the MP MP recently who said that “white motherfuckers been raping and pillaging…”
He likewise going to have to man up and apologise.
Occurred to me, too, vto. No doubt the naive greenies who leapt to Hone’s defence will be along soon explaining why his racism is ok, but John Boy’s is not. Can’t wait to see those angels dance!
yeah. fortunately most on the Left damned Hone’s comments
Hone’s comments were however correct
and there was no truth in Keys joke mr sprout?
ha ha, that is probably the funniest thing so far..