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Kevin Rudd and the boat people

Written By: - Date published: 2:10 pm, July 20th, 2013 - 165 comments
Categories: aid, australian politics, International - Tags: ,

Boat People

Yesterday there was a major political announcement across the ditch.  Kevin Rudd announced that Australia will no longer consider giving refugee status to people arriving illegally by boat and that Papua New Guinea has agreed to take in any boat person who subsequently establishes that they are eligible for refugee status.  In his words “[a]s of today, asylum seekers who come here by boat without a visa will never be settled in Australia”.

The proposal has been met with a variety of responses.  To show how reactionary and inhumane the policy is Tony Abbott has described it as promising.  The fact that Abbott is favourably inclined to support the policy should have Labor activists bowing their heads in shame.  Only the Australian Greens have the guts to describe it as it is, with Greens leader Christine Milne describing it as ruthless and repugnant and saying that it was absolutely immoral for a rich nation to “dump thousands of vulnerable people into an impoverished country“.  Milne aptly said that Rudd had managed to leap-frog Tony Abbott in terms of cruelty.

I have always struggled with the issue and the way that it has dominated recent Australian election campaigns.  Because it seems wrong that a country of immigrants who continue to mercilessly trash the indigenous people should be so up in arms at the thought of other people from overseas also becoming citizens of the lucky country.

In 2001 for instance the Tampa affair probably helped John Howard hold onto power after he refused to let the Norwegian ship the Tampa enter Australian waters because it held rescued boat people.  Conditions on the ship were worsening with reports of dehydration, malnutrition and  exhaustion but Howard still refused to allow the refugees to be taken off the ship.  Later claims made by Howard during the election campaign that year that other boat people had threatened to throw their children overboard if refused entry to Australia were determined to be untrue but only after Howard had regained power with an increased majority.

A major problem with Rudd’s proposal is that it breaches international law.  Under the United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees a refugee is someone who “owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country”.  If a refugee presents at the boarder of another country then as long as they have acted in good faith they should not be subject to penalties, the primary one which is their return to their country of origin.  And most importantly refugees shall not be expelled or returned to territories where their life or freedom would be threatened on account of their race, religion, nationality, or membership of a particular social or political opinion.

The receiving country is obliged to not return refugees to their homeland unless and until they have been subject to a proper process.  The Australian High Court has recognised that Natural Justice must be observed when making a decision on a refugee status application.

The number of boat people reaching Australia each year is not huge.  Over the past couple of decades the numbers have mostly been under a thousand.  In 2001 there were 6,556 and last year there were over 17,000.  But Australia is a huge place.  And this scale of immigration into a country of 22 million people is figuratively and literally a drop in the bucket.

It is not as if Australia is a culturally homogenous place.  Its diversity is one of its most charming features, apart from its inability to treat and care for the indigenous people properly.

Rudd’s proposal could be considered to be politically astute in that it takes away from Abbott the ability to make boat people an election issue.  But it is inhumane, degrading and illegal.  Shame on him.

165 comments on “Kevin Rudd and the boat people”

  1. Tangled up 1

    Politically it’s genius. Morally it’s appalling.

    • North 1.1

      Yeah……..I can just feel lots of semi-xenophobic to majorly xenophobic racist sentiments being a tad vindicated in the national guts. I’m acknowledging that they feel keenly that it’s their country and I try to imagine myself in their shoes. Suffice to say I hope were I an Ozzie I’d entertain a different sense from that which is apparent. No disrespect but my mind’s eye sees a rather Garnerish demeanour in our cousins.

      For the moment I just gotta let it rest contemplating the lust for power in the bones of John Howard as to claim “they’re throwing their babies overboard…..”. Haven’t yet sorted out where I think Rudd is relatively but there are intimations of answering “stuff”.

      In an entirely churlish and irrelevant appraisal it wouldn’t be half bad to see the loathsome Abbot fucked over and disappear though.

  2. sockpuppet 2

    Vile, vile man. Abbott and Rudd almost manage to make Key look good.

  3. Bill 3

    Any explanation as to why it’s okay to ‘settle’ genuine refugees in Papua New Guinea, but not okay to ‘settle’ them in Australia? In the first link, Rudd seems to be making a big deal out of the fact that PNG is a signatory to the UN Refugees Convention (as is Australia), a country with an (apparently) robust democracy (like Australia) possessing an economy with ‘a strong future’ (like Australia).

    So, no difference between the two countries by Rudds measure of comparison. No mention of the comparative level of education/healthcare facilities…no mention of the institutional capacity that PNG possesses that might help it accomodate and assist refugees who will be exhibiting all manners of post traumatic stress disorders etc. But I’m sure that’s covered and these refugees aren’t really being ‘dumped’ into onerous existences out of both sight and mind.

    See, I’d have thought that people possessing the courage and the initiative to maneuvere themselves out of dire situations in the full aforethought that they could well die trying, would the very type of people an entrepeneurial country like Australia would fall over themselves to get a hold of.

    Anyway, just as well there is no savage racism involved and that the eminently sensible, civilised rationale behind this move will be outlined for us just presently.

  4. Macro 4

    “Seems that Rudd will do anything for power”

    Never a truer word! Yes a vile man, and the soul of the political left in Australia has just been given a very severe kicking… :(

    Add to the above his unscrupulous trashing of the Carbon tax
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/world/asia/australian-leader-scraps-tax-on-carbon-emissions.html?emc=tnt&tntemail0=y&_r=0

    Welcome to “The Age of Stupid”.

  5. Populuxe1 5

    Except they aren’t assylum seekers under the UN convention, they are illegal economic migrants because they have refused available assylum in Pakistan, Iran, Malaysia, and Indonesia. Boat people also pose threats to biosecurity, not to mention the potential for extremism. And the bullshit about Australia being “big” – in case you hadn’t noticed much of that is desert and the cities suffer from water, employment and accomodation shortages. Try thinking with the brain and not the heart once in a while.

    • Jim J 5.1

      @populxel – Iran is the only one of these that is a signatory to the convention and not necessarily a point that refugees go through. And considering what is required by the convention and what Iran provides, I’d hardly consider them to be upholding the convention. So in this sense it is meaningless to say they’ve refused available asylum.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2

      Except they aren’t assylum seekers under the UN convention, they are illegal economic migrants because they have refused available assylum in Pakistan, Iran, Malaysia, and Indonesia.

      Link?

      From what I can make out, boat people and a lot of other refugees are actually the result of what Malthus warned us about 200 years ago – massive over population.

      • Populuxe1 5.2.1

        http://www.unhcr.org/3b66c2aa10.html – the UNHRC convention
        It’s all there in black and white:

        Malthus is bollocks
        http://www.juliansimon.com/writings/Ultimate_Resource/
        http://www.henrygeorge.org/pchp7.htm

        • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1.1

          Can The Supply Of Natural Resources – Especially Energy – Really Be Infinite? Yes!

          LOL, you try to get an infinite amount of energy on Earth.

          • Populuxe1 5.2.1.1.1

            I doubt “infinite” was meant literally, but see that big burny hot yellow thing in the sky for example, or for all I know zero point energy. In case you hadn’t noticed there are seven billion reasons why Malthus was wrong.

            • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1.1.1.1

              Actually, there’s between 5 and 6 billion reasons why Malthus was right. We just haven’t seen the consequences of the over population yet.

              • Colonial Viper

                We just haven’t seen the consequences of the over population yet.

                In fact, yes we have, but mostly in places a long way away from us. Bears to remember that we are living well within the global top 20%.

                Egypt for example, is permanently fucked. They cannot feed their people, period. Countries like India, China, Indonesia and Israel are only a couple of steps better.

            • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1.1.2

              In case you hadn’t noticed there are seven billion reasons why Malthus was wrong.

              No, there are only three reasons why Malthus was (temporarily) wrong.

              1) Energy from coal was the first one.
              2) Energy from oil was the second one.
              3) Rich people having fewer children not more children, was the third one.

      • TheContrarian 5.2.2

        Draco, you have frequently mentioned closing our borders and stopping immigration. What do you think of Rudds refusal to accept boat people?

        • Draco T Bastard 5.2.2.1

          Draco, you have frequently mentioned closing our borders and stopping immigration.

          Yep, I have. It’s a foregone conclusion to inescapable physical limits but even then I’ve mentioned it in two different contexts:
          1.) When AGW causes the equatorial regions to become uninhabitable by humanity then we will see several hundred million people trying to get here. At that point we will need to close the borders and possibly with force.
          2.) Stopping immigration temporarily while we sort out our economy so that no one is living in poverty. Once we’ve done that then we could open up immigration again – until we reach carrying capacity anyway (and, yes, we do have to determine what NZs carrying capacity is).

          What do you think of Rudds refusal to accept boat people?

          That would depend upon why he’s doing it. Is he doing because of those hard limits that Pop1 mentioned or purely as a political stunt? If the former and he has facts and figures to back it up then I don’t have a problem with it. Australia is a big place but it still has limits. If the latter then I’d say that it’s absolutely disgusting as it’s done for ulterior motives and not necessarily for the best of Australia.

          Either way, it really is up to the Australians if they let people in or not.

      • karol 5.2.3

        From what I can make out, boat people and a lot of other refugees are actually the result of what Malthus warned us about 200 years ago – massive over population.

        That and vast global inequalities between countries. If wealthier countries (or at least their governments) were really serious about stopping “boat people”, they’d work to decrease the inequalities between countries. But, instead, they want to maintain the internationally “competitive” advantage.

        “economic migrants” is a term used to downplay the significance of the impact of the poverty in some countries. I’d rather call them “economic asylum seekers”, because many of their lives will be damaged if they stay in their home countries.

        I recall seeing a movie on TV when I lived in the UK: The March (1990). It was about a massive uprising spurred by climate change. Large numbers of Africans marched on Europe, with the slogan, “We are poor because you are rich”.

        • Draco T Bastard 5.2.3.1

          But, instead, they want to maintain the internationally “competitive” advantage.

          What they want to do is maintain the wealth pumps that maintain the Western Empire. The structures and networks that keep raw resources going to the rich countries from poor countries which inevitably keeps the poor countries poor while impoverishing them even more as their resources are used up.

          Interestingly enough, NZ happens to be one of the countries that wealth is pumped out of while we tell ourselves that we’re rich and that the only thing we can do is be farmers (despite the fact that farming makes up less than 8% of the workforce).

        • Populuxe1 5.2.3.2

          Africa doesn’t need more money, it needs transparent government and double entry book keeping.

          • karol 5.2.3.2.1

            Ah, of course – that simple really.

            • Colonial Viper 5.2.3.2.1.1

              Reality is no obstacle to simplistic two dimensional solutions.

              • Populuxe1

                I’m sure it is perfectly obvious even to you that Africa holds enormous mineral wealth. Wouldn’t it be nice if instead of funneling international aid and blood diamond money into off-shore bank accounts, that money actually went to the people of Africa? Mugabe took back everything from the whites in Zimbabwe and is raping the country twice as bad. Ethiopia, the poster child of famine in the 1980s, was only ever briefly under Italian control under Mussolini – everything else was entirely their own doing. It would be ever so nice if well meaning liberals could stop painting Africans as victims of western greed and give them the dignity of recognising their ability to govern their own lives. You also might observe that countries like Nigeria and Botswana are flourishing largely because of capitalism and getting their shit together.

                • Colonial Viper

                  You seriously have no idea.

                  • Populuxe1

                    You are blinded by your arrogance and confirmation bias

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I’ll paraphrase Nikiforuk on petrostates: God never put oil in a bad place. But oil has turned plenty of good places into hell.

                  • Populuxe1

                    If you don’t think that transparent government and less corruption would go a long way to improvingv the lot of Africans and enabling them to better withstand exploitation, you are seriously a bigger dick than I realised

    • Deborah 5.3

      The countries you list are not convention countries. Therefore they have not been offered asylum there, as this is not a legal possibility. They have been waiting there, often in great danger.

    • North 5.4

      There is also the subliminal eugenics imperative which underlines and justifies racism – woe betide that in time they’ve thrown their seed around. I express extravagantly to illustrate what is there. NZ too.

    • Murray Olsen 5.5

      The Australian High Court disagrees with you. Every reasonable person I know disagrees with you. I’m unreasonable and even I disagree with you. Everything I’ve ever seen you post is reactionary rubbish. What exactly makes you think of yourself as left wing or progressive?

  6. Arfamo 6

    The biggest concern I hear from Aussies who want the traffic stopped is their justified fear of religious extremism arising from the clash of cultures. Freedom of religion is all very well but it also means if there’s a religion which is militant and capable of being exploited by violent fundamentalists, you can’t stop them until the violence happens. We don’t have the same problem here so I’m not prepared to criticise Aussies for wanting these people kept out.

    • Bill 6.1

      The biggest concern I hear from Aussies who want the traffic stopped..

      Nice piece of ill informed bigotry right there. It ain’t ‘trafficking’ when the people are genuine refugees And it is the genuine refugees Rudd is going to dump in PNG.

      ..if there’s a religion which is militant and capable of being exploited by violent fundamentalists

      And we’ll ignore the possibility that such ‘violent fundamentalists’ are the very people the refugees are on the run from? Anyway, rest easy on the question as to whether there might be a religion that such people can exploit. Christianity (Lebanon and Ireland etc), Islam (Saudi Arabia etc), Hinduism (India), Buddhism (Tibet, N. India, Burma)…Actually, you might find it more fruitful to come up with a religion that isn’t potentially militant and exploitable.

      Meanwhile, you do know, that for many years NZ was a bolt hole for IRA operatives, yes? I mean, I know they were ‘our’ type of people as opposed to being one of ‘them’ and that there are no religious extremists in NZ. Lots of right ugly minded fucktards though if your comments are representative of any proportion of the NZ populace.

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        Nice piece of ill informed bigotry right there. It ain’t ‘trafficking’ when the people are genuine refugees And it is the genuine refugees Rudd is going to dump in PNG.

        It is trafficking if those on the boat have been promised better economic lives by the people arranging the boat trips, whom they may also be paying big money too.

        • Bill 6.1.1.1

          I’ve no doubt their desperation is such that even when they know they are being taken to the cleaners, they continue to make arrangements in the hope against hope that they aren’t in fact being taken to the cleaners.

          Insofar as they are coming from second countries having fled their homelands, well, possible economic improvement is a no brainer. Ever tried living in a country where you have no access to work or education or medical treatment? That’s one very fucked up state of limbo these people are coming from. And it’s not one they would choose lightly.

          Face it CV. These people aren’t motivated by greed or images of streets paved with gold. They are fucking absolutely desperate and probably experiencing very deep levels of fear and anxiety. They know that what they are doing could result in their death. Think about that for a second. You seriously suggesting they’re taking that punt on the basis of gaining a bit of material traction in some culturally and geographically foreign land?! I mean, maybe they’re just bringing their kids along for the ride, cause, you know, it’ll be a blast…an adventure?

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1

            You know where all this is going. Nationalism, feudalism and fascism is on the return globally.

            That Oz is taking this attitude to boat people is perfectly expected. This is a country which won’t even spend a single cent on unemployed Kiwis, and for the most part Kiwis are literate, English speaking and the same colour as them. They just don’t give a fuck.

          • Populuxe1 6.1.1.1.2

            That’s quite a fantasy you have concocted there. In those secondary countries there are Muslim charitable organisations that help them out, certainly long enough for them to *legally* apply for refugee status somewhere. Hardly limbo, or at least not any moreso limbo than being an illegal alien in Australia (ask the kiwis living under bridges over there).

            And a suicide bomberknows that what they are doing could result in their death – dosn’t mean I should condone it.

            • Arfamo 6.1.1.1.2.1

              Meanwhile, you do know, that for many years NZ was a bolt hole for IRA operatives, yes? I mean, I know they were ‘our’ type of people as opposed to being one of ‘them’ and that there are no religious extremists in NZ. Lots of right ugly minded fucktards though if your comments are representative of any proportion of the NZ populace.

              Rubbish. The IRA are not even Catholics. Protestantism and Catholicism are simply the religions of the population living in N. Ireland of English, Welsh and Scottish ancestry, and of Irish ancestry. That’s a political struggle not a religious one. The religious angle is played up by the media and UK government and only works on dupes.

              • Bill

                Oh, I know it was a political struggle – but it got subsumed by religious bigotry. Would you have wanted to be a protestant in a catholic area of Belfast or visa versa? No. You wouldn’t. And as for NZ being a bolt hole, that ain’t rubbish – if that’s what you were suggesting. Anyways…

                • Arfamo

                  I have no idea whether NZ was a bolt hole for IRA operatives or how long ago it was that you are talking about. I’d love to see a link on that. But either way, both sides – the Irish nationalists and the British nationalists had their own terrorist organisations. The only truly religious bigot I can recall regularly hearing from was that spittle-flecked psychotic retard, Ian Paisley. The issue has always been about discrimination, civil rights, and, to a lesser extent these days, unification with Eire which I believe has been abandoned as an objective by Sinn Fein. Our UK-influenced media has always pushed the BS line that it’s religiously motivated and obviously some dupes still believe it. The thickest British nationalist boofheads are still needlessly stirring up trouble provoking the Irish-ancestored every freaking Orangemen’s Day.

      • Arfamo 6.1.2

        Actually, you might find it more fruitful to come up with a religion that isn’t potentially militant and exploitable.

        They all are. And they’re all bullshit. Certainly anybody who reads the Bible or the Koran from cover to cover and actually believes they’re looking at the word of god is an idiot.

    • Murray Olsen 6.2

      The Australian Christian Lobby already runs Queensland. I expect to see abortion facilities blown up before too long. The Aussies I know are far more worried about them, and they are prepared to criticise the bogans and the racist fuckwits like Rudd who pander to them.

  7. clifford wright 7

    Kevin Rudd has finally had a relatively inspired idea. I guess it beats sinking all the boats in the Torres strait!
    All you “bleeding hearts” out there obviously have no children or grandchildren and don’t care what sort of world you leave behind you.
    OK so there are some genuine refugees. Like NZ’s interpreters in Aghanistan and their families.
    But EVERY one of these illegals Australia or NZ lets in means that either a genuine refugee is left
    to suffer, or we end up like parts of Europe, practically swamped by the social problems created by
    uncontrolled immigration.
    Until the “third world” gets its population under control and gives women a proper place in their society they are ALWAYS as big a threat as a nuclear war (or even worse).
    I am very much a “green” person. I drive my own electric car and have a solar powered house. But I will never support the Greens in Australia or NZ because of their totally illogical ignoring of the”
    Elephant in the room” overpopulation!

    • Bill 7.1

      But EVERY one of these illegals Australia or NZ lets in means that either a genuine refugee is left to suffer

      Nice one. It’s the genuine refugees Kevin Rudd is referring to you fuck wit.

      • clifford wright 7.1.1

        Well mono adjectival Bill!
        If they are “legal” and approved immigrants, then why are they crowded on to that shonky boat
        that look as though a 1 metre swell would sink it?
        How do you explain your “friends” the people smugglers also? At least since you apparently give tacit approval to their activities then you can hardly be their sworn enemy?
        As approved migrants they would fly here like most others do.
        One of these days it just might sink in that Free breeding = miserable Death and let us hope that we can bring that day closer by sensible action.

    • mickysavage 7.2

      But Clifford which ones are the genuine refugees? Rudd’s definition seems to be that if they arrive by boat they will never be a genuine refugee. And what about the rule of law? If Australia signs up to an international treaty don’t you think they should abide by it?

      • Populuxe1 7.2.1

        It is quite clear from the convention that none of the definitions apply to illegal economic migrants. Read it very carefully. They’re not just jumping on a boat straight to Sydney Harbour, they are island hopping all the way down through Malaysia and Indonesia, sometimes halting in one place or another for as much as a couple of years.

      • clifford wright 7.2.2

        Genuine refugees are approved BEFORE leaving to come to Australia or New Zealand.
        Kevin Rudd is generally quite correct in assuming that if you come by boat you are at least a “queue
        jumper” if not some sort of criminal. No country has any reason to accept any person except by consent of the existing residents.
        If Third world countries are exploited in such a way as to degrade their environment or corrupt their
        government then the corrupt Monetarists who created the problems should be made to pay to fix it.
        That’s why NZ and Australia should get out of all the international monetarist organisations and
        restore some of their own sovereignty.
        Simply put, their mess, whether from loony religion, free breeding via the subjugation of women, or exploitation by other “colonial” powers is no concern of ours.
        I don’t intend for my grandchildren to be swamped by the “Starving Billions”. Just like the book that “Soylent Green” was based on, even a nuclear war is better than that.
        If you can’t face the moral choices, then tough!
        The universe is the way it is, NOT they way we want it to be.

  8. Colonial Viper 8

    Rudd knows this policy is a vote winner.

    Meanwhile, PNG is a country where soldiers went on a rampage in the country’s main medical university

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-18/an-former-png-commanders-blame-army-ill-discipline-on-civilian-/4828956

    • Rosetinted 8.1

      CV
      It’s a worry that these people are being sent to an unstable place like PNG. They seem to be mired down already in problems. I don’t see anything good coming from this decision. This is what anti Rudd people were afraid of. Australia is just making bad press for itself.

      And we will be tainted with this bad press too. Do you remember years ago we were so keen to get rid of an Iranian man that we deported him with an attendant policeman. I wonder what happened to the Iranian? Also to the little Sri Lankan girl that we couldn’t allow to stay here with her aunt and be educated here. We can welcome people from overseas if they have money.

      • Colonial Viper 8.1.1

        Rudd announced this deal but it must have been in the works for many months now, under Gillard.

      • Chooky 8.1.2

        Rosetinted

        Single instances of worthy refugees eg. Algerian Ahmed Zaoui ( who after a struggle was allowed to stay), the little Sri Lankan girl living with her aunt and the Iranian man (who were unfortunately sent back home), are cases of genuine refugees from political/cultural oppression and probable persecution and they should have been treated with compassion and allowed to stay ….

        But don’t confuse these single cases with the issue of boat loads of economic refugees, who have been sold a story about arriving in ‘a land of milk and honey’ and who have been able to pay considerable amounts to businessmen for a passage to arrive here illegally. This is quite another issue.

        Agreed we welcome too many people here on the basis of money!…less of these and more of the genuine worthy refugees

        • Rosetinted 8.1.2.1

          Chooky
          You’re right – we do have to be concerned about numbers coming here. We are small and the oligarchy running us is increasingly badly managing our country, and its resources and the potential for people to gain a standard of living in a working economy.

          Treasury was just talking on Radionz about the research they do and the papers they present, and of course they are very well paid. But one of their concerns is not the best way to assist the economy towards full employment, encourage useful jobs, ie not just selling houses and booze, both good earners, but all the time they have been working away and all the data they have gathered up has not produced the functioning, thriving, happy society that one would expect from the combination of huge expense, wonderful brains and machinery.

          Probably what will happen here is that we will eventually be overwhelmed by busy hard working entrepreneurs who will drive themselves and their employees so that they can improve their status, and the rest of us stay in the lower 50% of the 99%. People who feel they must leave bad situations are very motivated and self-reliant. So we are at a disadvantage because we haven’t been forced by dire circumstances to evolve in that way, though we might have to in future. It is inevitable because of the forces of overpopulation, political and religious disturbances, climate etc. and all we can do is try and limit numbers to manageable levels.

  9. muzza 9

    People don’t just have a right (man given or otherwise, under the current structures) to arrive somewhere, claim they are some such status (proof?), then expect that nation will cater to/form them. You take that risk, if it does not work out, that simply the way it has to be at times!

    Rudd, or any other so called leaders, have responsibility to those who are already inside the boarders, and as much as I ‘m for freedom of movement, under certain circumstances, I’m not!

    The world is not fair, and while I repeat the boat peoples desire to seek a change, I also support Australia’s decision, to turn them away!

    I’ve no problem with this position!

    • That to me is a sad position to take. These people need HELP – it is as simple as that. No one undertakes the type of journey they are undertaking – leaving their homeland and everything they know because it is a bit of a lark. Rudd is a foul beast for doing this and it won’t work anyway because it hasn’t worked in the past and as the Queensland people say, the border is ‘porous’. The numbers are not that big and the argument that swamping or such like will occur are bogus in my view. Looking after number one is straight out of the neo-whatevers handbook. These people can be given a place to live but only if they are actually considered people not pawns in a political game.

      • Populuxe1 9.1.1

        Bullshit. Some of them have lived long enough in Pakistan (a year is all it needs) for that to be legally their country of residence. They choose to go all the way to Australia for economic reasons. If you can afford to put up the money for a people smuggler in Pakistan, Malaysia or Indonesia, you can certainly afford to legally apply for refugee status.

        • Bill 9.1.1.1

          Being able to afford a passport is one thing. Obtaining one when you live in genuine fear of the very people you’d have to apply to for the passport, quite another.

          As for ‘a year is all it takes’ to be a Pakistani resident – you got a reliable source for that haven’t you?

          • Populuxe1 9.1.1.1.1

            If they fit the category of assylum seeker as defined by the convention they can go to the embassy of their preferred country and apply for a visa as an assylum seeker.
            And no, I can’t be arsed explaining to you the legal definitions of Habitual Residence (not residency) because I am not Google.

            • Bill 9.1.1.1.1.1

              You honestly can’t see the catch22 there? Like the necessity of having a passport perhaps? The one you couldn’t get from the authorities in your homeland because…sigh… been through this one.

              And habitual residence is a mechanism whereby people are forced back to the country they recently exited. It’s up to the asylum seeker to convince the authorities that return to the previous country is not an option. So ‘best’ scenario is that they wind up as a permanent resident in a refugee camp in a country that borders their homeland after being knocked back through however many countries.

              • Colonial Viper

                Would NZ voluntarily choose to accept up to 20% or 25% of the boat people who wondered into Australian territorial waters? Perhaps the ones vetted as being true asylum seekers?

              • Populuxe1

                Sigh. They don’t actually need a passport if they have been issued with an IRO certificate of eligability or this
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_identity
                or this
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_travel_document

                Permanent resident in a refugee camp is better than being shot at – it is assylum. No country is under any obligation to provide more than that despite how much custard you heart may pump.

                If it were me I would be putting the rights and interests of my own citizens first too. I don’t understand fools who think we should be saving the whole bloody world when we should save ourselves first.

                • Bill

                  The whole world? Nah. Just those who need help and who we are in a position to help.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    We’ve got minimal interest even in helping our own people Bill. You’ve got heart, that’s for sure.

                    • Bill

                      I guess you took ‘we’ as referring to NZers or whatever? But I was actually referring to everyone everywhere. It’s the kind of internationalist approach to identity that the left used to adopt quite naturally. Now, it seems, only some – and far, far fewer than in the past – do. Shame really, given the ascendancy of racism and various hues of xenophobia.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      The global “Left” has allowed most of its power centres to be disabled or hijacked. Labour unions are dead in the water, universities filled up with right wing think tanks, the media now fully corporate owned and reluctant to speak truth to power, except in occasional whispers. “Left wing” parties are nothing of the sort and usually range from being partially to totally complicit with the neoliberal agenda, currently morphing into the next phase, the total surveillance state.

                      The international debt based monetary system has left most developed nations in deficit even as poorer nations go completely under. There is no prosperous middle class taking an active interest in humanitarian issues, any more. Those who remain seem infected with the cult of self centred individualism.

                      Shame really, given the ascendancy of racism and various hues of xenophobia.

                      Its all very much connected. The neo Nazi Golden Dawn Party would not have so much support in Greece if it weren’t for the crushing austerity being inflicted on the Greek people in order to pay off the bankers, for instance.

                    • Bill

                      I think the demise of the ‘global left’s’ centers of power was inevitable given that their structures mirrored the heirarchies of the powers they sought to challenge. It’s been my opinion for many years now that the left you refer to was doomed from the moment the Bolshevics hi-jacked the Russian revolution condemning the democratic left, both there and in the west, to the fringes and/or the wilderness.

                      So, I don’t mourn the loss of power experienced by authoritarian expressions of leftist values. They were always (to be nice about it) a contradiction. What I mourn is the lack of any sustained resurgence of the democratic left tradition. I mean, that party celebrating the end of the USSR wasn’t exactly well attended by leftists. And too many who did attend were about to become sad sack proponents for ‘capitalism with a human face’ or/and to underscore the TINA mantra.

                    • Arfamo

                      I don’t mourn the loss of power experienced by authoritarian expressions of leftist values. They were always (to be nice about it) a contradiction. What I mourn is the lack of any sustained resurgence of the democratic left tradition.

                      +1. Those failed communist authoritarian regimes have been misrepresented for too long as the equivalent of social democracies, which is utter nonsense and must be one of the most long-running successful con jobs in history.

                    • Bill

                      Given that the essential structures of power in Social Democracies are the same as those of Democratic Centralism – a cross in a box every few years having some potential to undercut a hermetically sealed selection process…they’re equivalent enough. Not much of a con there. One is merely less undemocratic than the other. Neither are or were democratic.

                      The fact that Social Democracy is sold to us as being democratic. Well, there’s the con right there that you might want to focus on.

                    • Arfamo

                      I could disagree Bill, because there seem to be more than one definitions of social democracy, but I too don’t think our current parliamentary system is democratic enough, and don’t think I’d gain much insight by debating definitions of SD with you.

                      I am interested though in what democratic system you’re advocating?

                    • Bill

                      There is no singular ‘democratic system’. There are multiple possible systems for decisions that embody democratic principles/values. So as long as those affected by a proposal have a direct input to forming the final decision…and as long as any and all structures used for decision making are formulated in such a way as to avoid ‘capture’, then what eventuates is democracy.

                      The ‘leap of faith’ is that complexity will naturally arise from simple initial conditions as happens in the natural world…ie, that democracy ‘scales up’ without any order having to be imposed from above. If that ‘leap of faith’ is baseless…leads nowhere…then democracy can never be anything beyond a flight of fancy because order imposed from above sits in direct opposition to democracy.

                      The details of each and every transient decision making body will, of course, vary according to a number of factors…the percieved importance of the decision, numbers of people involved and so on.

                    • Arfamo

                      Ok. My question probably should have been what system of government do you advocate. Because representative democracies have been captured by our representatives – who’ve themselves been incorporated into and captured by Right wing economic theory – so they’re now part of the problem, not the solution. I’ll leave it at this. I’ve taken this discussion way off the thread topic. Thanks for your thoughts.

                    • Bill

                      Systems of self governance, not representative ones, ie – empowering democratic modes of governance as opposed to disempowering undemocratic/authoritarian ones.

                    • Arfamo

                      Which country’s got a model of such a system that’s working? And how does it fund and deliver health, education, policing, housing, welfare safety net, jobs, defence etc?

                    • Bill

                      The question doesn’t make sense. Countries or nation states require centralisation of power/control and as such work against any realisation of democracy.

                      As for how the services mentioned would be delivered (the applicable ones anyway…) in a democracy…probably much better than now as there would/could be no market restraints (it also requires that power be concentrated)

                    • Arfamo

                      The question doesn’t make sense.

                      Lol. Not to worry. Neither did your answer. :)

                    • Bill

                      Does ‘without corporate or bureaucratic intermediaries’ – while leaving you to figure out the logical implications and consequences of that, make better sense?

                    • Arfamo

                      Only in theory. I don’t know any current working model of what you’re talking about. Meantime I’m more interested in how best to put the brakes on the current mess we’re heading for within the crappy system we have and try to reverse at least some of the negative impacts. Our government bureaucracy is thoroughly rooted now as well, but Labour contributed to that too.

                    • Bill

                      yup. Nothing wrong in working within what we’ve got. Doesn’t mean we have to lose sight of the bigger picture or give up on any visions we might have for a better future beyond all this though, eh? ;-)

                    • Arfamo

                      Agreed. But the prospect of a more participatory democracy seems some way away from being a) designed b) informed c) practical d) economically viable as a system of government if online news polls and Twitter are anything to go by. My guess is that things will have to get a lot worse for a lot more people in the low and middle income brackets before people will start to demand more meaningful information from msm, more informed debate, and more accountability from their representatives in the current system.

        • marty mars 9.1.1.2

          Your big blanket statements don’t fit everyone least of all all of these people you condemn as able to afford to allow themselves to be people smuggled to get to aussie for economic reasons. btw when they ‘lived’ in Pakistan were they refugees there or just having a holiday?

          • Populuxe1 9.1.1.2.1

            Boo hoo – it doesn’t actually matter where they happen to be refugees – they have found refuge. They are not looking for asylum in Australia, they are looking for economic opportunity illegally. And who are you too be talking blanket statements anyway? Your bleeding heart is dribbling generalisations everywhere.
            Jeez, you are going to ball your eyes out when you see what happens when global warming and peak oil kick in properly.

            • Bill 9.1.1.2.1.1

              ..they are looking for economic opportunity illegally

              According to who? Maybe the likes of the Australian government that had “been dismissing Sri Lankans as “economic migrants” after perfunctory five-minute interviews, with the outcome determined in advance.” While, when people arriving from Sri Lanka were actually allowed to make an application “seventy per cent of (them) were found to be refugees on their initial assessment in 2011-12, with 82% of the rejections overturned on appeal.”

              http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/11/rintoul-challenging-bipartisan-myths-on-asylum-seekers/

              • Populuxe1

                Do you realise you’ve just admitted that if they had applied legally they would almost all have been granted asylum.

              • Populuxe1

                Do you realise you’ve just admitted that if they had applied legally they would almost all have been granted asylum.

                • QoT

                  Do you realise you’ve just admitted you didn’t even bother to read the linked article?

                  Until last week none of those deported had any access to lawyers or independent advice. The first time lawyers and refugee advocates did get access the government was forced to back down and agree not to deport 56 Tamil arrivals. The key issue is not whether Sri Lankans are “automatically entitled” to asylum. It is that the government is refusing to even let them make asylum claims.

                  I mean, it doesn’t come as a surprise to anyone here, I assure you.

                  • Populuxe1

                    And I do not give a flying fuck because I believe in the sovereign rights of a nation to determine who may enter it and live there

            • marty mars 9.1.1.2.1.2

              Bullshit but please pray tell how did you manage to interview all of those people that you make blanket statements about? At least you’ve finally learned to spell asylum correctly. Personally I find crying to be very helpful in releasing emotion so your dim insult is really a compliment ta.

      • Bill 9.1.2

        What also gets me is that these people don’t seem to be afforded any identity whatsoever. Apart from knowing that it was people from Afghanistan on the Tampa, it appears that everyone else (since?) is completely ‘anonomysed’.

        Given that 25% of the refugees in the world are from Afghanistan and then given the likelyhood that a goodly proportion are from Iraq and Pakistan and that the numbers from Syria are probably increasing, it’s a bit fucking rich that politicians and msm focus on the ‘evils’ of people smugglers.

        Syria aside, I guess it’s just fine for western governments these days to bomb the shit out people, immiserate them and riddle them with fear and anxiety in the name of ‘democracy’ and ‘freedom’ and leave them no option but to flee by any possible means and then, for final good measure, pack those that survive onto an impoverished island to be forgotten.

        So who’s really more ‘evil’ in the scheme of things? The smugglers ripping people for their life savings? Or the politicians who order their soldiers to participate in the violent creation of a living hell for people; and who then renege on any moral obligation towards the numerous victims flowing from the decisions and actions they’ve taken and ordered to be taken?

        And remind me again why it is that we give these people, who possess such degenerated expressions of humanity, authority over us?

        • marty mars 9.1.2.1

          Yes Bill for some, these people are just ‘economic refugees’ and that euphemism means they don’t deserve shit from us. Under that view (where people are judged through the lens of money) the people smugglers are just trying to run their businesses without the red tape. Sending any of these ‘economic refugees’ over to PNG is part of their ‘resettlement’ and any downside is ‘collateral damage’. For me the dehumanisation of these people through the language used to describe them is Orwellian and so long as these ‘economic refugees’ have the potential to disturb our happy tranquil privileged positions they must be banished in word and deed. They don’t really exist, they are shunned and left because they aren’t really people at all, not really, not like us. I oppose this view.

      • muzza 9.1.3

        Hey Marty, don’t get me wrong, it would be great if all people who genuinely needed help, received it, globally, regardless of where they originate or are fleeing from.

        Problem is, thats simply not possible, and as the worlds resources thin even further, are nations going to be expected to screw themselves trying to save people, many of who are not even close to refugee status. Given its western nations that have done some screwing, of course that would be appropriate, but frankly Marty, charity begins at home, and its going to get tight, thats the reality, and its going to be hard luck for many people.

        The other option is that western nations take any/every individual who decides they fancy a move, regardless of the back story, and those countries implode into civil rioting etc anyway, as the scrap of resources intensifies, which is what I think is going to happen.

        Its nothing to do with number one, its about the 20m people in Oz which the country needs to support, first and foremost!

        So again, at face value, I support the Australian position!

        • marty mars 9.1.3.1

          Hard luck? Screw themselves to save people? Charity begins at home? Don’t get you wrong? Oh no I have got you right mate and are you down to your last loaf of bread? Nah didn’t think so.

          • muzza 9.1.3.1.1

            Marty, get off your high horse bro, and relax.

            Unfortunately, everyone can’t be saved, thats the cold hard facts of the matter, and before you leap all over that statement, I would prefer it was not this way, but it is, and its going to become even worse, in coming years!

            Also, keep your pre conceived ideas about other peoples lives/backgrounds out of it, you have no idea my situation, any more than I do yours!

            Hard as it is for people to understand, there are people around who can see situations objectively, and in context, without letting their life, or potential bias creating experiences, from clouding opinions.

            Peace

            • marty mars 9.1.3.1.1.1

              Well I’m not interested in bashing this around with you but

              I wasn’t talking about saving everyone – people die, that’s life. It is not the fact that people die that is important it is how they live. In my view trying to help others is a valuable and meaningful way to live.

              I don’t care about your personal situation – you were triggered – deal with your stuff mate and don’t project it on to me.

              Your last paragraph is a doozy – anyone who says that is showing imo that they still have a lot of learning to do – put the ego to one side mate it is not really helping.

              In regards to the actual issue – I believe that if people can be helped they should be helped to the best of our capacity. There are many reasons why I have got to that view but the simplest is, that is what I would want someone to do for me and my whānau.

              • Chooky

                Marty mars

                Tell that to the Tibetans who have been flooded with economic refugees from Han China and had their spirituality, culture ,countries’ resources(.timber, minerals ) and people devastated, pillaged, raped.and murdered ….also tell that to the Palestinians……suggest you get your back pack on and get some real life experience …

                • Bill

                  That the same Tibetans who had the yolk of a particularly nasty state of feudalsim lifted from them? Who began to experience the joys of even basic health care and education and a modicum of freedom? Who experienced the novel sensation of no longer being just a dispensible chattel of the ruling monks?

                  Or are you talking about the elites who resided in the monastries and who lost their privileges? (Not that they did too badly out of it mind if the Dalai Lama is anything to go by)

                  Not quite sure what your mention of Palestinians is supposed to suggest in that context though.

                  • That the same Tibetans who had the yolk of a particularly nasty state of feudalsim lifted from them?

                    Awesome. Locals saved by heroic intervention of colonising superpower! You must have been an enormous fan of the Iraqis having the yoke (no eggs were involved) of a particularly nasty state of totalitarian dictatorship lifted from them back in 2003. Actually, on second thoughts, maybe not – the Americans didn’t colonise Iraq, so their efforts fell well short of China’s in Tibet.

                    • Bill

                      No psycho. Just that the Tibetan peasantry quite welcomed an end to their sufferings under the lama’s and monestaries. That’s not to say that post 51 has been a bed of roses or whatever, just an acknowledgement of the facts.

                      But yeah, the eggs…

                  • Chooky

                    Reply to Bill

                    Actually Tibetans and Maori have a lot in common….probably why the Maori love the Dali Lama….Both old Maori and old Tibetans were eco-centric environmentalists. They did not overpopulate their land which was sacred to them ….Women had standing and rights and respect. Some of their most important Gods were female and inherent in nature.

                    Both Maori and the Tibetans ( with their native Bon religion) were polytheistic… as opposed to male- centred anthropocentric societies and monotheistic male God dominated societies .

                    ..It is these so called ‘civilised’, ‘sophisticated’, ‘ materialistic’ male anthropocentric , male- dominated societies…. which have led to the suppression and subjugation of women , the degradation of nature and womens’ rights ……and the world threatening over-population!

                    Your contempt for Tibetan culture is contempt for Maori culture …

                    Tibetan Buddhism is actually at the very at the forefront of spiritual thinking eg joint conferences held by the Dali Lama and Western neuro and brain specialists on issues of spirituality and mind/brain problems.

                    Bill we dont need your brand of ‘civilisation’ or your over-population.

                    • Bill

                      People the world over have things in common Chooky. So do our various and often otherwise widely divergent cultures. But anyway, why not go read “Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth’ by Michael Parenti (google search it) and see what impact, if any, it has on your delusional and idealistic vision of pre-51 Tibet.

                      edit. Your religious/spiritual perspectives are…well they’re yours.

                • I’m talking about here and I’m talking about within capacity and believe it or not I have had some experience of the devastation due to oppressors arriving and taking over everything their fucken greedy little hands could grab.

                  • Chooky

                    Marty Mars

                    Actually most NZers have Maori ancestry, myself included, and I dont think most real Maori whanau would agree with your line of argument…we cannot have unrestricted boat loads of economic refugees, especially as many NZers are in dire need of economic help themselves, especially the Maori.

                    Bill

                    Your real angle, bias, interests…. and lack of humanity and ignorance will be evident to all, in those comments.

                    • Bill

                      Chooky. You really do need to go and read informed pieces about the conditions in Tibet prior to 1951 – the plight of ordinary Tibetan peasants was fucking horrendous. As such, they weren’t exactly against the demise of their former masters.

                    • Chooky you still seem to be missing the word ‘capacity’ that I have used – do you know what it means – hint it doesn’t mean unrestricted access. As for your assertion regarding “real Maori whanau” I disagree. The reason Māori earn less and die younger in this country is ultimately political. The capacity for equality for both treaty partners is there but the political will to live up to the guarantee of equality signed by the Crown in 1840 isn’t. Open your eyes mate and see the truth – you don’t have to go to Tibet for that one.

              • muzza

                Well I’m not interested in bashing this around with you but

                I’ll let that speak for itself!

                I don’t care about your personal situation – you were triggered – deal with your stuff mate and don’t project it on to me

                You don’t care about my personal situation, but you claim to care about the boat people, hmmm.

                And as for being triggered, no, it was a response to your statement below where it reads like you were pretending to, know me. Let me know if your intent was actually something other than a poorly conceived judgement.

                Oh no I have got you right mate and are you down to your last loaf of bread? Nah didn’t think so.

                Reads like a judgement…

                Your last paragraph is a doozy – anyone who says that is showing imo that they still have a lot of learning to do – put the ego to one side mate it is not really helping.

                This from the guy who says in one response, “I don’t care about your personal situation”, yet is fighting for the boat people, while making a judgement about my personal position – Poorly projected ego, Marty, I agree, yours!

                We are at different phases of life’s learnings, that much is clear, as long as we are learning, thats what is important.

                • Grow up mate and don’t tell me what I’m supposedly doing or caring about – you wouldn’t have a clue! My response about the bread was responding to what you wrote – it wasn’t even personal let alone judgmental! Can’t you even get that??? Talk about projection!!! Your response was personal because you were triggered – that is okay, we all get triggered but don’t try to dress it up, okay? Take your ego out for a walk you’ll feel calmer and more able to discuss things without getting all worked up, but don’t bother on this thread.

                  • muzza

                    Oh no I have got you right mate and are you down to your last loaf of bread? Nah didn’t think so.

                    Marty, can you explain what you meant by the above then, so we are both aware of the statements intent.

                    FYI, the intent of my original comment, re, loaf of bread, was simply this – I would look after my family over a stranger, should I be forced to make that unfortunate choice. The analogy I was trying to make, is that Oz, is responsible for Oz, not the rest of the worlds people, who decide that want to pitch up. And if they do not take a firm stance, then they are going to have a terrible problem!

                    Again, stop trying to tell me what my space is, or what my reactions were, you are making up things which are not there, on my part!

                    • Let it go mate – move onward and upward towards love, light and laughter.

                    • muzza

                      Focus on your own game, Marty, its a long journey you have in front of you, keep at it!

                    • Think about and grow into your own journey and stop focusing on others – you are you just accept it!

                    • muzza

                      Marty, if you and I were to ever meet in person, and be able to discuss subject matter, without the limitations of digital, and being able to fully engage with visual and aural senses, with reasonable assurance, we would find ourselves on the same page, most, if not all of the time!

                    • I’d imagine we have a lot more in common than we do differences. Check out Bob at the bottom of the thread – it is a great song and the sentiment is aligned with mine. Kia kaha.

                      PS I do say sorry for being a bit of a smartarse – it can be fun (for me at least)…

                    • muzza

                      I’m a big fan of Bob, who was a prophet.

                      Nice one Marty,

                      Peace

    • Rosetinted 9.2

      “who are already inside the boarders,” – most Australians started off jumping overboard so I guess you could call them boarders. We also. If we want to go to other countries making war and assisting with destabilising and displacing people then we should be prepared to help some of those people when they are forced out of their homes and lives.

      • Rosetinted 9.2.1

        I didn’t get my comment in the right place, and now can’t find the one I was responding to. So if anyone can’t make the connection that’s the reason.

  10. Rosetinted 10

    I was trying to fix the HTML directions on a comment of mine here and with 4 mins still to go I got the pink bar refusing me edit access. So I have deleted it. I had left the page to check info on using HTML and was going to amend my comment but was barred.

    Does anyone know why?

    • karol 10.1

      Do you get an edit function for your comments? Because I don’t. Can only edit my comments that are under my own posts.

      • Rosetinted 10.1.1

        karol
        Yes I do get my edit (idiot) box which is available for about 7 minutes. And sometimes I go away and get a link and bring it back and insert it after I have submitted and that’s worked through the edit box I think.

        micky savage – Thanks. I did take a copy of it before and then got annoyed, so if I get time I’ll try again and see what I can learn from it, if anything.

        Bill
        Thanks I’ll remember that. This time I think I just went to the bottom and started a new number of my own.

      • lprent 10.1.2

        Ah that makes sense at last… You’re an AUTHOR. The edit functions do not match. You can use the admin edit on your own post’s comments. However the reedit plugin thinks that authors have access to directly edit ALL comments – which is what the permissions used to do.

        Will look at that tomorrow, and send a patch to the plugin author.

    • mickysavage 10.2

      Don’t know but I can edit your comment if that helps.

    • Bill 10.3

      If another comment has come in below yours on the ‘stack’, (eg you are 9.1 and a 9.1.1 comes in) then you can’t edit. I think.

      • lprent 10.3.1

        Umm bill,there is an option for that. But it is meant to be off.

        • Bill 10.3.1.1

          Oh. Hit me the other day…maybe last week. (wasn’t signed in) I just thought something along the lines of ‘bugger’. Maybe it was ‘on’ then and is ‘off’ now?

    • lprent 10.4

      Rose.. Will check based on their advice.

  11. Cantabrian 11

    It is realpolitik – Rudd would have no chance to be elected if he didn’t have a strong refugee policy. The Gillard government was incompetent (as are the state Liberal governments at the moment) and disadvantaged many of the poor in Australia.
    Rudd is still a much better choice than Abbot!

    • Tamati 11.1

      Correct.

      Anyone who says that Rudd is just as bad as Tony Abbott, clearly doesn’t know anything about Tony Abbott.

  12. Mary 12

    “A major problem with Rudd’s proposal is that it breaches international law.”

    Gillard’s attempt at shunting people off to Malaysia failed because of this. What makes Rudd so confident he can do the same thing but somewhere else?

    Gillard also had a crack with East Timor. Only trouble was that she announced the policy publicly eight months before talking to the Timorese government. Timor rejected the plan before Gillard finally approached them. Has Rudd talked to PNG? My bet’s he hasn’t.

    In any case all talk about PNG is moot because it won’t happen. Just way too controversial to send refugees to an already impoverished country. Rudd’s announcement is to help push Labor over the line on election day, then the policy will die a natural death.

    • dumrse 12.1

      Rudd’s announcement is to help push Labor over the line on election day, then the policy will die a natural death.

      Correct. It’s how Labour plays the game.

      • Mary 12.1.1

        How ever much I despise the current Labour Party for it’s neo-liberal attacks on the poor you can’t accuse it of this. But it’s certainly what Labor’s doing at the moment.

    • karol 12.2

      Nope. The Guardian article linked to in the post says it has already been agreed with PNG:

      Under the new agreement between Australia and PNG, asylum seekers who arrive from Friday will have health checks and immunisations on Christmas Island and then, within weeks, will be transferred to Manus Island and “other centres” in PNG as yet unspecified.

      [...]

      Rudd said there was no cap or limit on the number of asylum seekers PNG had agreed to take, but he expected over time as people smugglers “got the message” the rate of arrivals would slow.

      Rudd also announced a new international conference of immigration transit countries and said, as boat arrivals slowed, Labor would consider increasing the humanitarian intake from 20,000 to 27,000.

      Papua New Guinea’s prime minister, Peter O’Neill, was with Rudd at the Brisbane announcement and was later briefing Abbott and the Coalition foreign affairs spokeswoman, Julie Bishop.

    • Murray Olsen 12.3

      The Prime Minister of PNG was standing beside Rudd when he announced his filthy idea.

  13. Santi 13

    Has anyone asked: what do the boat people bring to Australia? Rudd is correct in his decision to keep them away as long as possible. If permanently, better.

    • Rosetinted 13.1

      Santi
      The Boat people bring bravery, they bring commitment to living life, they bring stoicism in difficult times, they bring a natural industry and willingness to take risks, etc. They bring hope for a better life, and willingness to give their all to get to a place fit for decent human beings. Possibly they could find that in Australia if they were allowed in and able to get started on their lives and their work and business ethic which is likely to be prodigious.

      • Murray Olsen 13.1.1

        They bring a lot which seems to be missing among today’s commentators here. While a large proportion of Standardistas are slapping Rudd on the back, many of my Australian friends in Brisbane were protesting against this rubbish in the middle of town. They are disgusted and I am fucking disgusted that it’s easier to find Australians opposed to this than it is to find Kiwis. I did not expect to see such xenophobia and apologetics for the state of the world in a post following one where many of the same people were arguing so passionately against poverty and inequality.

        Socialism for the first world and death by hunger for anyone born in the wrong place? Not while I’m drawing breath. I feel sicker than usual. Some of you are an absolute bloody disgrace. So many of you.

        • Santi 13.1.1.1

          Sorry Murray, but I do not share your feelings of outrage. A perfectly good decision by Rudd.

  14. infused 14

    Good.

  15. Murray Olsen 15

    People arrive by boat. They do not arrive illegally by boat.

    • Chooky 15.1

      Murray

      How many of these ‘economic refugees’ are women and children?. I wouldn’t mind betting the overwhelming number are young male…and by a long margin…. They are certainly not the most oppressed or destitute from their patriarchal dominated societies, where there is over-breeding, women often do most of the work and women are often not even allowed an education….These would be better off staying at home and fighting for women’s rights…as would you…..

  16. Chooky 16

    (By the way ….edit function does not work)

    Murray

    I had a lot more to add about who actually is benefited by unrestricted ‘economic refugee’ boat people……especially into a country where the working class are struggling to find employment and well paid employment, as well as affordable housing.

    Under Capitalist globalisation the main beneficiaries are the Capitalist Class with very cheap labour and competition for the lowest paid jobs….as well as housing and grossly inflated cost of rental properties.

    There is often a downside for the host country in terms of racism ( due to working class competition for scarce resources)… and sexism towards young women. Women and workers in the west have fought long and hard for their rights….Please make sure you are not an agent of the Capitalist class in undermining these hard fought for rights.

    • Murray Olsen 16.1

      I know exactly what I am. The right to be privileged and condemn people to malaria infested swamps is indeed one I would be interested in undermining. The working class doesn’t keep refugees out. The governments do. Globalisation is about the free movement of capital and capitalists, not workers. Workers have to stay where they’re told.

      • Santi 16.1.1

        Brave words, Murray, but what re you doing to deliver on them?
        Channel your outrage, man.

        • Murray Olsen 16.1.1.1

          I would rather partially deliver on brave words than be a cheerleader for the cringing cowardice of Rudd, who spent years undermining Gillard and has now adopted two of Abbott’s policies.

  17. In this life, in this life, in this life,
    In this, oh sweet life: We’re (we’re coming in from the cold); We’re coming in (coming in), coming in (coming in), coming in (coming in), coming in (coming in), Coming in from the cold.

    It’s you – it’s you – it’s you I’m talkin’ to – Well, you (it’s you) – you (it’s you) – you I’m talking to now.

    Why do you look so sad and forsaken? When one door is closed, don’t you know other is open?

    Would you let the system make you kill your brotherman? No, no, no, no, no, no! No, Dread, no!

    Would you make the system make you kill your brotherman? (No, Dread, no!) Would you make the system get on top of your head again? (No, Dread, no!) Well, the biggest man you ever did see was – was just a baby.

    In this life (in this life), In this (in this life, oh sweet life): Coming in from the cold; We’re coming in (coming in), coming in-a (coming in), coming in (coming in), ooh! (coming in) Coming in from the cold!

    It’s life (it’s life), it’s life (it’s life), it’s life (it’s life): it’s – wa – well! – coming in from the cold! We’re coming in (coming in), coming in (coming in) – ooh (coming in), hey! (coming in), Coming in from the cold!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYgmnSgZg9Y

  18. Murray Olsen 18

    How many of the commentators here were around when Muldoon mounted his dawn raids, and supported the raids? After all, we all know Samoa is patriarchal, they look different, they were taking our jobs, the young men were sexist, they were illegal economic migrants,……….
    Try to give honest answers, please. I was around and I welcomed Samoans as my brothers and sisters. Sometimes we had sibling squabbles, but I never wanted to send them home.

  19. Chooky 19

    Actually I was against the dawn raids and I supported the rights of the so-called “over-stayers” because they had been brought in to do a job and they had become part of the community and they should not have been turfed out when the job was done….

    This is a different issue than mass influxes of uninvited “economic refugee ‘ boat people, fleeing from overpopulation …. when we already have high unemployment, poor wages and conditions and scarce over priced housing resources.

  20. Sable 20

    Kevin Rudd is caught between a rock and a hard place. He was not in favour of this solution but it was forced on him by his own party and public opinion. Australians do not favour immigration/reguees and whilst a lot of people are ranting and raving calling them racists they have had to put up with a lot.

    When I lived in Sydney there was a of originally foreign crime generated by crime gangs who imported their business model into Sydney. Many of the restaurants are run by crime syndicates (even today) along with prostitution and drugs. One scandal involved supposedly legitimate businesses bringing in off shore labour to work in restaurants who were in fact ex army and were to be used as enforcers.

    We have not experienced this to the same degree here but I have seen it first hand. My first month alone I remember seeing a gang of young kids clearly not locals threatening to shoot a taxi driver over a cab fare. There are some places in Sydney you are wise not to go because they are run by foreign crime syndicates. A friends brother who I had dinner with is a Kiwi and now a Sydney cop, he told me the stories of places where even he is afraid to go armed or otherwise.

    I’m still not in favour of this solution but I can certainly understand where your average Aussie is coming from.

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    Greens | 11-08
  • Rock-star economy unplugged by China log jam
    The collapse of log prices due to oversupply in China threatens to wash the gloss off what remains of National's so-called rock-star economy, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “Already this year the price of milk solids has plunged by more...
    Labour | 11-08
  • Young job seekers dealt a poor hand
    National's "keep 'em poor" card for young people on a benefit is a sorry substitute for job training, Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Sue Moroney says.  The Government today announced it would extend its payment card scheme to all teen parents...
    Labour | 11-08
  • Labour – achieving change for Kiwi women
    Working towards being a world leader in eliminating violence against women and children will be a priority for a Labour Government. Releasing Labour’s Women’s Affairs policy today spokesperson Carol Beaumont said while Labour had a proud track record of achieving...
    Labour | 11-08
  • Accessible healthcare also affordable
      It is obvious from Tony Ryall’s hasty attack of Labour’s plans to extend free GP visits to older people that he hasn’t bothered to actually read the policy, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says. "Mr Ryall’s response to Labour’s...
    Labour | 11-08
  • Full details of oil execs’ junket revealed
    Full details of a $237,000 taxpayer-funded oil executives' junket in 2011 have emerged.National paid the nearly quarter of a million dollars to wine and dine 11 oil executives in New Zealand during the World Cup.The trip included yachting, wine tasting,...
    Greens | 10-08
  • Steering By The Real: Chris Trotter responds to Paul Buchanan
    WHEN ACADEMICS take to blogging the rest of us best be careful. And when they offer comment on the subject of dirty politics we should all pay attention. I will always remember my history lecturer, Dr Michael Cullen’s, confident dismissal...
    The Daily Blog | 22-08
  • Interview Between Selwyn Manning & Sean Plunket Over SIS Release of OIA...
    During a RadioLive interview between host Sean Plunket and managing director of Multimedia Investments Ltd, journalist Selwyn Manning, a fiery exchange developed after Plunket attempted to “wet flannel” the issue of whether the Prime Minister has been truthful over what...
    The Daily Blog | 22-08
  • “Even though my hours are being cut, my rent doesn’t get cut to compens...
    Fast Food = Slow Pay   Lola is a manager at a major fast food chain. Last year her employer arbitrarily cut her hours from 32 hours to anywhere between 18 and 26 hours each week. “I said I can’t...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Hate Politics has no place in NZ Politics
    I wasn’t going to write about Nicky Hagar’s ‘Dirty Politics’.  There are plenty of policy issues to discuss. Then I read the book, and what it reveals strikes at the very heart of our democracy. My overwhelming feeling is one...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Pak’nSave pull adverts from Whaleoil
    Pak n Save have replied to complaints that their adverts were appearing on hate speech site Whaleoil by deciding to block their adverts from appearing on the site. Their reply… Congratulations for Pak’NSave on making this type of ethical stand. They...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Herald Poll – Why the Greens will hit 15%
    The biggest problem for John Key is that there are swathes of National Party voters who are educated and decent people whom will be forced to read Dirty Politics out of intellectual curiosity and will be horrified by what National...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Dirty Politics and Dirty Media
    The Nicky Hager book is mind blowing on so many levels. The revelations of government ministers and their staff colluding with vile and hateful schemers to attack other people, is truly ugly. When the dust settles on the illegalities, immoralities...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • “You just have to keep on fighting” – an interview with Metiria Turei
    We’re meeting in her office. It’s austere, though she does have a nice teapot. The view is startling. One can map the Bowen Triangle, though the teapot is still more interesting. A group of pink faced men are running across...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Taxation and Real Estate – turning housing debate on its head
    The debate about property prices in New Zealand is disingenuous. It is clear that there is a global process in which speculators are using massive amounts of unspent and borrowed money to blow bubbles in the world’s major asset markets....
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Michael Wood – Faith and politics
    In a week which has seen our collective focus shift to those who see politics as a great game to be manipulated for their own ends, it is timely to reflect on the fact that many people are in fact...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Government’s Own Guidelines Show John Key Would Have Been Informed Of SIS...
    Analysis by Selwyn Manning. INFORMATION THAT I HAVE ACQUIRED, sourced from the State Services Commission, states in black and white the tight guideline requirements that must be followed whenever the SIS informs a Prime Minister of any pending release of...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Simply Not Credible: Dr Tucker’s “clarifications” are only making thi...
    THAT DR WARREN TUCKER, Director of the Security Intelligence Service in 2011, agreed to the release of politically sensitive material – thereby intervening in an on-going contretemps between the leaders of the National and Labour parties – without receiving the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • The Donghua Liu Affair: Evidence of Collusion between the NZ Herald and Imm...
    . 1. Prologue . The Donghua Liu Affair hit  the headlines on 18 June, with allegations that David Cunliffe wrote a letter in 2003,  on  behalf of  business migrant, Donghua Liu. Four days later, on Sunday 22 June, the Herald...
    The Daily Blog | 21-08
  • Dear Canon NZ – Malevolence should induce revulsion, it shouldn’t be ce...
    Giovanni Tiso’s analysis on Slater is possibly the best in NZ… It’s been a good week for some of us. A week of feeling vindicated, offeeling galvanised. Where it goes from here will depend on several factors, some of which are largely...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • 5AA Australia: After Dirty Politics Can National Provide Stable Government?
    AS WE ALL KNOW New Zealanders and Australians do not like political parties that are unstable, or can no longer assure us that they are able to provide stable government. And the big question for Kiwis as we prepare to...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • SIS letter means it’s over for Key
    It’s over. I may not agree with all of Phil Goff’s positions, but you can’t question his integrity the way Slater did in Dirty Politics and not be deeply concerned that our Secret Intelligence Agency is being used for political...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • who to vote for in Epsom
    who to vote for in Epsom...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • The Rise and Fall of John Key – who will be the next leader of National P...
    . . It was all set to go: Teamkey would be the cult of personality that would do Stalin, Mao, Reagan, Thatcher, or any of the Nth Korean Kim Dynasty, proud.  National and it’s “Teamkey” propaganda strategy   would cash-in Big Time...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • Who said Kiwis couldn’t get a fire in their bellies over an arcane intern...
    An amazing team of activists has taken the campaign on the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) to local governments throughout the country. Their latest triumph came last Monday when the Dunedin City Council endorsed a resolution expressing concern about the TPPA...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • National’s Dangerous Education Agenda Exposed
    Putting aside the dirty politics coming out of the Beehive and the right-wing blogisphere, there are some very strong signals that another term of a National Government would do even more serious damage to the public education system. The Education...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • We can have clean politics and get our democracy back.
    Something is rotten in our politics and it stinks. Dirty politics has sadly become one of the defining features of this election campaign. In the light of recent revelations about the extent of nasty and disingenuous political strategies, it would...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • Book burning copies of Hager’s book? The next generation of National Part...
    It seems we are getting the next generation of National Party Dirty Politics now. There are claims the Young Nats in Hamilton are buying up copies of Dirty Politics and burning them. One witness was contacted by the Waikato Times...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • National Party Poetry Day Haiku
    Key’s inbox and Cam’s poison most foul, there he blows hoist by own harpoon...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • Why Cunliffe will be the next PM
    David Cunliffe will be the next Prime Minister of NZ. Labour’s inclusive and positive TV adverts… …are in stark contrast to National’s team of white people powering away from the rabble of the ‘others’… …the messaging is vital and crucial...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • From smiling assassin to grumpy butcher – on giving Judith Collins a last...
    After #dirtypolitics Key isn’t the smiling assassin, he is the grumpy butcher. When he said Judith had  a ‘last chance’ he meant 1 second after voting closes on 20th September. Key would love nothing more than to cut Collins loose and end...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • If the National Party rowing advert was real….
    If the National Party rowing advert was real there would be more blood in the water. If the National Party rowing advert was real it would be Cameron Slater calling the strokes. If the national Party rowing advert was real,...
    The Daily Blog | 20-08
  • Cameron Slater: Zionist and political pundit
    It is hard to know where to start with right-wing blogger Cameron Slater (Whale Oil), especially after the release of Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics. This confirmed everything many of us thought Slater to be: a snivelling pundit who serves...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Bryce Edwards stood down from Herald for election season??? Are the editors...
    I only found this out via twitter last night and I am still in shock. Bryce Edwards, easily the best critical thinker and news analyst the NZ Herald has has been stood down by the NZ Herald ‘for the election...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • So who’s a “conspiracy theorist” now?!
    . . As the media storm over Nicky Hager’s book, “Dirty Politics“,  and allegations over smear campaigns continue to swirl,  National’s spin doctors have given Key, Collins, and other National Party ministers a string of  phrases to use in all...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Momentum shift
    When you are deeply immersed in a local campaign sometimes it can be difficult to see the helicopter view.   I don’t know how accurate the political polls are and have always known that things can change quickly in politics...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Dear Toby Manhire. Bad call on backing Farrar
    Oh dear. I say this as someone who regards Toby Manhire as one of the smartest journalists/commentators/columnists this country has, and I think Toby has made a terribly dumb call here. Let’s see if Toby is still singing Farrar’s praises...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Radio NZ apologise to me for getting it wrong
    Radio NZ have contacted me, reviewed the claim by their host that I had an advance copy of Nicky Hager’s book and they have concluded they got it wrong, they have called me and apologised and will make a statement...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Reclaim UoA – Students’ Message to Steven Joyce
    Tertiary Education – we’ve been sold a lemon  A group of 30 students attended an event on Tuesday evening about ‘the future of tertiary education’ at which the Minister of Tertiary Education Steven Joyce was slated to speak. As Joyce...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Can someone in the media please ask the PM of NZ to categorically deny any ...
    Now we see the MO of Slater & Co, the setting up, the digging for dirt, the use of staff to dig that dirt, can the Prime Minister of NZ categorically deny any National Party staff worked with Cam Slater...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Panic setting in for National as they realise what’s about to happen
    And the terror starts to set in. I’ve never seen blind panic like this before  and it’s spreading as the enormity of what’s about to happen starts to sink in. Hager’s book is a mere entree, Nicky’s personal ethics wouldn’t...
    The Daily Blog | 19-08
  • Hager’s Dirty Politics: what the book ultimately reveals is abuse of powe...
    Guide to the many faces of John Key Nicky’s book is now doing what I suspected it would do, create a shockwave of revulsion. Andrew Geddis over at Pundit Blog sums up this attitude best, and it’s reverberations build with every...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Fancy taking children seriously
    Let’s see why all political parties should pay close attention to the Green Party’s policy for children. First, it is a comprehensive attempt to put children, not ideology, at the heart of family policy. Wow, children at the heart of...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Amnesty International: Dear Azerbaijan, Stop Torture, Love Kiwi Kids
    This is a world where many adults often underestimate Generation Y. Being only a few years out of being a teenager myself, I feel I can make this statement with certainty. However, I have been the Youth Intern at Amnesty...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • GCSB meetings today in Christchurch 1pm at Uni 7pm at Cathedral
    The 2014 GCSB meetings to discuss the mass surveillance state legislation passed by this Government will be debated in Christchurch today at two different meetings. 1pm at Canterbury University bottom floor James Height Building: Chair: Bomber Bradbury Ruth Dyson – Labour Party...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Things that 7 Sharp should probably be talking about
    Things that 7 Sharp should probably be talking about...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Guide to when Key is lying
    Guide to when Key is lying...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – The State of the Student Nation …or is just Al...
    Students politics are dead and our student media is in terminal decline. The most disappointing thing about university is the politics, or should I say lack of? I was raised with the idea that students held the power.They were the...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Love Lifts Us Up: Thoughts from the Green Party’s campaign launch.
    Author Eleanor Catton wants people to give their party vote to the Greens.Photo by Peter Meecham NO ONE WAS QUITE SURE how he did it. Somehow Bob Harvey had persuaded the owners of the rights to Joe Cocker’s Up Where...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Test Stream
    width="600" height="400"> archive="http://theora.org/cortado.jar [3]" width="600" height="401">...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • LIVE STREAM: You, Me and the GCSB ChCh Public Meetings
    LIVE STREAM EVENT here at 1pm & 7pm: The 2014 GCSB meetings to discuss the mass surveillance state legislation passed by this Government will be debated in Christchurch today at two different meetings. PLEASE NOTE: TDB recommends Chrome and Firefox...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today,
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • How @whaledump might destroy the popular vote for National
    Dirty Politics is now creating a meltdown and National are in danger of a total vote collapse. The real threat to for National was if Nicky had all the emails released via the anonymous hacker who took them. That danger is now a...
    The Daily Blog | 18-08
  • Open letter to Radio NZ – you need to make a retraction now
    I have just sent this off to Radio NZ right now Dear Radio NZ Firstly, what a great interview by Guyon Espiner this morning with the Prime Minister. Great to see such hard hitting journalism. Unfortunately I am not contacting...
    The Daily Blog | 17-08
  • Radio NZ are lying about me
    I am getting this all second hand at the moment as I don’t bother listening to Radio NZ (except for that wonderful Wallace Chapman in the weekends) but there is a claim that Suzie Ferguson just insinuated on Radio NZ...
    The Daily Blog | 17-08
  • Farrar’s fake claim of being invaded + Slater’s claims of death threats...
    The counter spin to avoid focus on the series allegations made in Nicky Hager’s Dirty Politics continues. David Farrar’s ridiculous hysterics that he was invaded and his privacy has been blah blah blah has all been reduced from computer hacking to...
    The Daily Blog | 17-08
  • Te Kuiti man imprisoned for images of young children
    A Te Kuiti man caught with pictures of children being sexually abused has been sentenced to ten months imprisonment. Sickness beneficiary Daniel James Parry, 35, appeared for sentence in the Tauranga District Court today (Friday) after pleading guilty...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Japan Maritime Training Squadron visit – Open Day, Band
    • The Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force Training Squadron will make port in Auckland from Wednesday 3 September to Saturday 6 September...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • MP Perk Transparency Needed
    The Taxpayers’ Union is slamming the increase in taxpayer-funded entitlements for MPs and their families published on the legislation website this afternoon . Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says:...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Debating the future of Auckland’s housing
    With only weeks until the General Election, Auckland’s mounting housing crisis will be put under the spotlight in an Election Debate hosted by the School of Architecture and Planning at the University of Auckland. The debate’s topic “Market forces...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Let’s sort this out – Human Rights Commission
    A Whangarei woman allegedly censured for greeting customers with Kia ora can get in touch with the Human Rights Commission says Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy. “We really need to resolve these kinds of issues. I had thought that...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Aged Care Association welcomes Labour’s wages policy
    The New Zealand Aged Care Association welcomes the Labour Party’s announcement that if elected, it will raise the minimum wage for aged care workers within its first 100 days in Government....
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Honorary doctorate for Secretary-General of the UN
    An Honorary Doctor of Laws degree is to be bestowed on His Excellency Mr Ban Ki-moon, Secretary-General of the United Nations, by the University of Auckland on Wednesday 3 September, both in recognition of his role as an international statesman...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Surveillance of Mr Upul Jayasuriya
    The New Zealand Bar Association joins the International Bar Association (IBA) and other Law Societies and Bar Associations worldwide over the reported surveillance of Mr Upul Jayasuriya, President of the Bar Association of Sri Lanka....
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Bob Parker, China State Media and Tibet Forum
    Former Christchurch mayor was signed up to position statement without his knowledge; observed “happiness” in Tibet as Tibetan protesters elsewhere shot by security forces...
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • “Walk the talk to reduce the wage gap”
    There’s just a few weeks left to convince the candidates of all political parties that reducing the wage gaps makes good sense....
    Scoop politics | 22-08
  • Digital Currency on the Drawing Board
    Government policies and digital currency ideas and issues will come together at three public workshops next week....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • NZ Cycle Trail welcomes $8 million fund
    Government funding of $8 million to maintain and enhance the Great Rides of New Zealand will help ensure the trails are delivering the best possible visitor experience, says Evan Freshwater, Manager Nga Haerenga The New Zealand Cycle Trail Inc. (NZCT)....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Judges Comments Bonkers – McVicar
    Napier Conservative Party Candidate Garth McVicar is accusing a Judge of forgetting that he is the gate-keeper for the community and not a benevolent caregiver for law breakers. "The comments by this Judge are not just alarming, they're completely...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Oxfam: World must suspend arms sales to protect civilians
    As the New Zealand Government prepares to ratify the global Arms Trade Treaty, and after ceasefire talks collapsed and violence erupted yet again in Gaza yesterday, Oxfam is calling on all states to immediately suspend transfers of arms or ammunition...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Degrees in Picking up Rubbish
    Responding to the Fairfax media report of a University of Otago survey of Wellington’s street-connected walkways, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says:...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Another Union row
    “ The teachers union the NZEA is getting ready for another industrial dispute. These disputes now only occur in the government sector. National has no one to blame but themselves” said ACT Leader Dr Jamie Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Whyte: Speech to Grey Power
    National’s failure to increase the age for super and reform health is a threat to every New Zealander’s security....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Local Govt should not go into business
    “No one should take any comfort from the fact that “Infracon”, a roading company in Tararua and Central Hawke's Bay, is to go into liquidation. This puts the future of more than 200 jobs in doubt. ACT sympathises with those...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Join the hikoi to end child poverty in New Zealand
    CPAG is calling on people across society to join a march from Britomart to Aotea Square in Auckland to demand action on child poverty in Aotearoa....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Ngapuhi Chair Says Enough of the Political Sideshow
    Time for side-shows to end so we can focus on future of our nation – Raniera (Sonny) Tau, Chairman, Te Runanga A Iwi O Ngapuhi...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Commissioner of Police v Kim Dotcom And Ors
    An order is made extending the duration of the registration of the restraining orders issued by the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia on 10 and 25 January 2012 and registered in New Zealand on 18...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Labour Announcement on Future of Hillside Workshops Welcome
    Labour leader David Cunliffe’s announcement in Dunedin today that a government led by his party would re-open Hillside Railway workshops was welcomed by the Rail and Maritime Transport Union (RMTU). ‘Since the workshops were shut down in late...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Primary teachers and principals vote to put kids first
    Teachers and principals have voted overwhelmingly against the Government’s controversial “Investing in Educational Success” policy, including proposed highly-paid principal and teacher roles....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Prime Time with Sean Plunkett: Educating for Success
    In all the turmoil stirred up by the "Dirty Politics" revelations, the real issues that the campaign should be about have been put to one side....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Dirty Politics – Number One Bestseller and Back in Stores
    An exposé of the hidden side of New Zealand politics, Nicky Hager's book, Dirty Politics , has been in hot demand since its release last Wednesday....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Epsom: profiling NZ’s most controversial electorate
    Welcome to the wealthy inner Auckland electorate of Epsom: home of coat-tailing, the Tea Tapes, a convicted outgoing MP... and heavy newspaper and magazine readership....
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • Families Free From Violence campaign and website
    We are pleased to announce the launch of our Families Free From Violence campaign and our new Families Free From Violence website. This website has been created to encourage people to take responsibility for ending family violence by seeking help...
    Scoop politics | 21-08
  • PSA And DHBs Reach Settlement on Five Collective Agreements
    The 20 District Health Boards are pleased to reach settlement via mediation on five Multi Employer Collective Agreements (MECAs) with the Public Service Association for 12,000 mental and public health nurses, allied, public health and technical staff,...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Refusal to complete census results in 46 convictions
    Failing to fill out a census form has resulted in the convictions of 46 people, Statistics New Zealand said today....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Council Amalgamations Still Bad Deal
    Northland, Bay of Plenty, and Wellington ratepayers should not be seduced into accepting the amalgamation of their Councils by a recent amendment to legislation allowing for local boards not community boards, Chris Leitch, Democrats for Social Credit...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • DHB industrial action withdrawn
    The Public Service Association (PSA) has withdrawn notices of industrial action covering 12,000 health workers at District Health Boards (DHBs) across New Zealand, after progress was made in mediation....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Aged Care Pledge Needs Better Target, Says Care Agency
    Labour’s pledge to set up an aged care working group to address industry concerns is good to see, but appears to skirt the obvious issue of a looming lack of beds and carers for our rapidly growing elderly population, says...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Social inequality still rife in New Zealand
    Social inequality has worsened over the past decade in New Zealand, a new study from Victoria University of Wellington shows....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Working towards a living wage and more Māori in paid work
    The Māori Party will build on the gains it has already achieved in Government and accelerate job opportunities particularly for young Māori....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Deepwater Group Supports Changes to Catch Limits
    The Deepwater Group says the increase in the Total Allowable Commercial Catch for hoki shows the benefits of a long term commitment to build biomass in this major New Zealand fishery....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • ACT announces Ohariu candidate Sean Fitzpatrick
    “Our Ohariu candidate will be Sean Fitzpatrick. Sean has strong ties to the region and I’m glad to hear he will be doing his best to grow ACT’s party vote in the area,” says Dr Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • ACT announces Tauranga candidate Stuart Pederson
    “Our Tauranga candidate will be Stuart Pedersen. Stuart has strong ties to Tauranga and I’m glad he has agreed to do his best to grow ACT’s party vote in the electorate,” says Dr Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Green Party scores massive own goal
    Green Party scores massive own goal as their own policy auditor criticises their fiscal plan...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Green Party’s own Auditor of their Budget finds it dodgy
    “The Alternative Budget released by the Green's does not even stack up in the eyes of their chosen auditor – Infometrics” said ACT Leader Dr Jamie Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • New shark finning laws fall short for threatened species
    Environmental groups are welcoming some aspects of a raft of law changes announced today in relation to shark finning, but say that overall the chance for New Zealand to catch up with international efforts in shark conservation is being missed....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Promoting Labour’s Positive Policies
    General Secretary of the New Zealand Labour Party, Tim Barnett, today launched Labour’s television advertisements for the 2014 election. The advertisements help tell Labour’s positive story for a better New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Drug Court: Rare Insight into New Alternative Justice Model
    Māori Television’s latest New Zealand documentary presents a fascinating look inside a new alternative justice model – through the stories of convicted criminals....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Political parties pledge to increase overseas aid
    A survey of political parties looking at how much New Zealand should spend on Official Development Assistance (ODA) shows the overwhelming majority of parties are committed to raising the bar according to the Council for International Development (CID)....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Top Kiwis backing Tip the Scales campaign
    Sir Graham Henry, former All Black Kees Meeuws, singer-song writer Jamie McDell and fishing guru Matt Watson have pledged their support to Tip the Scales, a pre-election campaign generating public support for rebuilding New Zealand’s depleted inshore...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Maritime Union continues to press over dirty politics
    Maritime Union National President Garry Parsloe says Ports of Auckland management is trying to get off the hook from its involvement with extreme right wing bloggers during the Ports of Auckland dispute....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • No end in sight to overwhelming human cost of conflict
    Two ceasefires have brought some respite to civilians in Gaza and southern Israel, amid hope that a durable cessation of hostilities might occur. In Gaza, these breaks in the fighting have barely given people enough time to seek medical care,...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Young Kiwi speakers to represent NZ at Gallipoli 2015
    The RSA is delighted at the announcement made by Veterans' Affairs Minister Michael Woodhouse today, that all eight regional finalists of the 2015 ANZ RSA Cyril Bassett VC Speech Competition will be included in a group of 25 Youth Ambassadors...
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • “Bromance” Marriage Stunt Insulting Says LegaliseLove
    A promotional competition asking two best mates to get married in order to win an all-expenses-paid trip to the 2015 Rugby World Cup is insulting, marriage equality campaign LegaliseLove Aotearoa claims....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • Cannabis Party first to register for 2014 General Election
    The Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party became the first party to register for the 2014 General Election today, when it meet with the Electoral Commission in Wellington at Midday....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
  • PGA: Addresses NZ’s ratification of Arms Trade Treaty
    President of Parliamentarians for Global Action and New Zealand MP Ross Robertson today addressed a celebration to mark New Zealand’s imminent ratification of the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT), which is expected within the next few weeks....
    Scoop politics | 20-08
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