Key, Brownlee: Not Auckland’s friends

41 comments on “Key, Brownlee: Not Auckland’s friends ”

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1. Wayne 1

   1 July 2013 at 9:57 am

   Ah well Karol, this is a good Green approach to Auckland transport, but how influential will the Greens be?

   I wonder where Labour stands on the roading projects? I would be surprised if Phil Twyford signs up to Patrick Reynold’s analysis of the Auckland Transport ITP.

   With so much political capital now invested in the ITP by Mayor Len and the Govt, it looks pretty much unstoppable. Maybe a little bit of change around the edges, and on timing, but that would be all.

   It would certainly be a big call for Phil Twyford (as opposed to the Greens) to back the alternative “Congestion Free Network” as opposed to the ITP.

   And in any event, is a “Congestion Free Network” a believable promise? You had better think of a more salelable title!
   • North 1.1

     1 July 2013 at 11:01 am

     What you’re really saying Wayne Boy is this:

     “Hahaha……..my old boss has stolen a march. He’s got them Catch 22…….they’re buggered whether they do or they don’t. All going according to plan. Hahaha !”
   • lprent 1.2

     1 July 2013 at 11:14 am

     The basic problem is that almost all of the transport funding for Auckland is going into roading in an area that is already congested. Problem with putting in new roads is that merely having them means that within a few years they will fill with private cars running with a single driver to beyond capacity.

     Whereas putting in an effective public transport system pulls private cars off the road, reduces or constrains congestion, and means that the major investment in roads including all of the pain of building the frigging things (a cause of congestion in its own right) is removed.

     That isn’t a ‘green’ position – that is a statement of observed fact visible in every city that has congestion problems. You can observe it quite clearly in the traffic numbers going over the Harbour Bridge right outside my door at work. The opening of northern busway stopped the rise in congestion and the reduced the numbers of instances of massive car park on the bridge that happened every other day when I was last travelling in a car over the bridge.

     So yeah, Phil Twyford and every other Auckland Labour MP will be getting the message from me that I’m going to be very unhappy if they fall for this silly deferral play from National. All it does is to cause the required public transport upgrades we need to be deferred for most of a decade and wastes money on roading that will not come close to solving the actual transport issues. What it looks like is another subsidy to the truckers and road construction industry.
     • lprent 1.2.1

       1 July 2013 at 11:40 am

       I see that I forgot the most important point in there whilst doing the polemic.

       It isn’t about “green” issues. It is about being able to get to work without it taking hours or costing a bomb.

       Roads aren’t going to help as every Aucklander not wedded to their cars is now aware. The public transport has been steadily inching towards an improvement over the last decade and a half. Even those who literally work on the other side of the city (a friend of mine is currently living in Owera and works in Onehunga – lousy for PT commutes) would prefer to have fewer other people on the roads and in buses or trains during the rush hours.

       Exactly why National is committed to putting in more roads in Auckland is a interesting question. Perhaps you can explain their religious obsession with it? Personally I’ve always put it down to a bankroll issue for the party.
       • Rob 1.2.1.1

         1 July 2013 at 4:27 pm

         Its not only people that require transport. There is a huge issue of getting raw materials and finished products in and out of businesses. If you consider that requirement that underpins a successful manufacturing environment then you will start considering other requirements outside the CRL. Its amazing that the left can hold seminars on how to boost manufacturing but do not once start to even consider the blindingly obvious issue of material logistics.
         • karol 1.2.1.1.1

           1 July 2013 at 5:15 pm

           Rob: Its not only people that require transport. There is a huge issue of getting raw materials and finished products in and out of businesses. […] Its amazing that the left can hold seminars on how to boost manufacturing but do not once start to even consider the blindingly obvious issue of material logistics.

           Says who? Please do some research before you make claims about what the left is or isn’t considering.

           Green MP, Julie Anne Genter, from her post on The Daily Blog, 18 June 2013, about the proposed light rail for Wellington:

           We haven’t had the option of comparing the motorway against a real alternative. What needs to be investigated is the eminently reasonable option of safety and maintenance improvements to the existing roads in the region and investment in high quality public transport options like light rail and increased commuter trains, which move more people at peak and free up the existing roads for freight and those who drive. – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/06/18/trainspotting-with-julie-anne-genter-light-rail-for-wellington/#sthash.LSoU1Tjj.dpuf

           Julie Anne Genter, during Question for Oral Answer to Bill English, on Auckland’s Transport, 16 April 2013:

           Julie Anne Genter: Given that road users and freight will benefit most from the city rail link according to all the numerous studies that have been done on this project, because it is the best option to reduce congestion, why will his Government not make it a priority, instead of its election promises to the provinces?

           Bill replied it wasn’t a government priority but discussions were continuing.

           Genter again:

           Julie Anne Genter: Given that Auckland is expected to grow by more than the entire population of Wellington by 2031, why is his Government not prioritising smart infrastructure like this city rail link, which will unlock the capacity of our existing rail asset and take tens of thousands of cars off the road at peak time, giving Aucklanders real choices and freeing up the roads for freight and commercial traffic?
   • karol 1.3

     1 July 2013 at 11:48 am

     Wayne, anything other than a congestion free network is short sighted. It may seem to people on the North Shore, still focused on extended spaces of quarter acre sections, that a few road upgrades and a second harbour crossing will do the trick.

     Here in the west, we are seeing the increasing need for compact housing with the necessary infrastructure and easy commutes to accessible jobs. Only a comprehensive plan, including less focus on cars and more focus on affordable public transport, will do the trick.

     These days I think twice about a trip into Auckland CBD, and mainly only do so in conjunction with work. It’s time-consuming, expensive (with or without the car) and public transport (my preferred option) is way to slow and uncertain to be fit for the future.

     With the focus on New Lynn as a hub and transport-centre; and the intensification of the Massey area, there is a major need for investment in public transport, plus the infrastrsucture that supports walking and cycling.

     And there also should be a parallel focus on revitalising the regions, rather than just going with the idea of the inevitable exponential growth of Auckland.
     • lprent 1.3.1

       1 July 2013 at 1:49 pm

       Fixing the ticketing systems on the train stations would be a good start from the sound of it. But there are a quite a few people out that way using the train these days.

       But at present, I’m just hanging out for the integrated ticketing system aka AT Hop to get on buses. Steven Joyce screwing up the introduction of it by intervening in favour of his mates at Infratil and then them managing to “fail” to integrate while they recovered their software investment in Snapper has delayed a integrated ticketing system by several years. One of those classic boondoggles of corporate whining and a useless and ineffective minister that listened rather than using their brains.

       I’m tired of carrying cash as being the only way I can jump around public transport
       • Draco T Bastard 1.3.1.1

         1 July 2013 at 2:40 pm

         Steven Joyce screwing up the introduction of it by intervening in favour of his mates at Infratil and then them managing to “fail” to integrate while they recovered their software investment in Snapper has delayed a integrated ticketing system by several years.

         It was a balls up and Joyce should have been fired for it but the AT Hop should be on buses this year.

         The bit that’s irritating me about it is that the government isn’t declaring the AT Hop as a national, and open, standard. Doing that would ensure that the card could be used around the country.

         I’m tired of carrying cash as being the only way I can jump around public transport

         The more I think about it the more I think cash has come to the end of its use.
2. North 2

   1 July 2013 at 10:50 am

   ShonKey Python to his masters: “Trust me gentlemen – we’ll deliver you up New Zealand. It may not happen overnight but it will happen.”

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10893978

   To the following idiots:

   – aspirationalists

   – cargo-cultists

   – “I’m alright Jack”

   – entitled “I’m better than you” snobs

   – beneficiary bashers

   – “Maori and Poly should get off their arse”

   – “sovereignty” is extreme Left

   – “democracy is well served in a triennial ritual”

   – “nothing to hide nothing to fear”

   – vainglorious while docile media

   All of you are to blame.

   All of you have been clipped. All of you have rolled over to the disingenuous, effete smile of a calculated liar.

   So when the heisters take the loot and fuck off to Hawaii with their knighthoods, when you too feel the cruel consequences, you’d better not redouble your morally indefensible reflex to demonise those down the food chain, the poor, the vulnerable.

   You do that and you’ll get it back in your face, hard. And you’ll richly deserve it.

   “It may not happen overnight but it will happen !”
   • muzza 2.1

     1 July 2013 at 12:08 pm

     One way or another, the owners of the monetary system, the ultimate owners of all the debt, both private, and public, will get hold of, everything!

     Its a mathematical certainty, the variable, as North points out, is time!

     The constitutional revue, will tell a little more about how some of the *native barriers*, will be removed.

     NZ has shown that it will roll over, and indeed that is what is going on, right now.

     This country, is now so far into dangerous territory, damage control, is about the most there is left to fight for.

     Most don’t even know they’re in the scap yet!
   • Tim 2.2

     1 July 2013 at 1:12 pm

     @ North – beautifully expressed!
3. red rattler 3

   1 July 2013 at 11:50 am

   All this expensive transport infrastructure is bullshit facing global warming.
   Tunnels flood, motorways drown. Capitalist hubris.
   What’s needed are dykes and canals.
   • karol 3.1

     1 July 2013 at 11:56 am

     This dyke reporting for duty, rr.

     But, on the serious side, I think it’s a pity they never followed through the old plan to put a canal through Auckland (from around Green Bay, I think?) to the east coast.
     • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

       1 July 2013 at 2:47 pm

       You’re thinking of Portage Road where boats used to be portaged across from one side to the other. I suspect shipping advances outstripped the plan to turn it into a canal and the Manukau Harbour is somewhat dangerous for shipping due to all the moving sandbanks.
       • karol 3.1.1.1

         1 July 2013 at 2:56 pm

         Well the Portage route would be the shortest route. I’m not sure why it was not followed through, but I think it was maybe cost and the fact that roads and rail started to take off back in the early 20th century.

         I wasn’t thinking of it being use for shipping, but for smaller craft – public transport and freight.
4. BLiP 4

   1 July 2013 at 12:15 pm

   ‘

   You gotta bear in mind with John Key that every portfolio he has, he’s fucked it up and lied about it, from the full-length of the country concrete cycleway to SkyCity, from BMWs to GCSB.
   • Tim 4.1

     1 July 2013 at 1:17 pm

     Which reminds me BliP – is there a place on here (or anywhere else) where there is an ongoing tally of John Key/Natsi bullshit and lies?
     A year or so, I started one but gave up, and I’ve seen various commenters with bits and pieces.
     Closer to election time, I was thinking of posters on billboards/leaflets in dinky we cafes in urban areas at least – especially given the MSM is utterly useless at doing their job(s)
     • BLiP 4.1.1

       1 July 2013 at 2:29 pm

       ‘

       What a wonderful idea. Let me know if you want some help with production and/or distribution. I was thinking also some business cards with just a “mysterious” comment and single weblink???

       Here is the current list (but it has been updated since then) – http://thestandard.org.nz/an-honest-man/ . . . since you asked, I will post a current list here once the conversation has moved on, say this time tomorrow.
     • BLiP 4.1.2

       2 July 2013 at 2:57 pm

       ‘

       I promise to always be honest

       we are not going to sack public servants, the attrition rate will reduce costs

       there’s no way one in five New Zealanders will lose their jobs

       we are not going to cut working for families

       I firmly believe in climate change and always have

       We seek a 50% reduction in New Zealand’s carbon-equivalent net emissions, as compared to 1990 levels, by 2050. 50 by 50. We will write the target into law.

       National Ltd™ will provide a consistent incentive for both biofuel and biodiesel by exempting them from excise tax or road user charges

       I didn’t know about The Bretheren election tactics

       If they came to us now with that proposal [re trans-Tasman Therapeutic Goods regime], we will sign it

       I can’t remember my position on the 1981 Springbok Tour

       Tranzrail shares

       I did not mislead the House (1)

       Lord Ashcroft

       National Ltd™ would not have sent troops into Iraq

       Standard & Poors credit downgrade

       the double-down grade doesn’t really matter and its only about private sector debt

       I did not mislead the House (2)

       I didn’t say I want wages to drop

       I can’t remember why I voted against increasing the minimum wage

       lifting the minimum wage to $15 an hour will increase unemployment

       the real rate of inflation is 3.3 percent.

       the tourism sector has not lost 7,000 jobs

       no I have never heard of Whitechapel

       I won’t raise GST

       people who are on the average wage and have a child are $48 a week better off after the rise in GST

       the purchase of farmland, by overseas buyers will be limited to ten farms per purchase

       the Pike River Mine was consented to under a Labour Government

       no promises were made to get the remains of the miners out of the Pike River mine

       I did not provide a view on the safety of the Pike River coalmine

       I did not mislead the House (3)

       capping, not cutting the public service

       raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour will cost 6000 jobs

       north of $50 a week

       privatisation won’t significantly help the economy

       wave goodbye to higher taxes, not your loved ones

       I never offered Brash a diplomatic job in London

       Tariana Turia is “totally fine” with the Tuhoe Treaty Claim deal

       Kiwisaver

       National Ltd™ is not going to radically reorganise the structure of the public sector

       tax cuts won’t require additional borrowing

       New Zealand does not have a debt problem

       New Zealand troops in Afghanistan will only be involved in training, not fighting

       the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia has closed under my National Ltd™ government

       It took 9 years for Labour to make a complete and utter mess of the economy

       National Ltd™ has changed the Overseas Investment Act to include 19 different criteria

       the price of goods and services has risen by 6 percent since the last election, while the after-tax average wage has actually gone up by 16 percent

       no, although its a week ago and here I am being interviewed on television about them, I havn’t seen Gerry Brownlee’s comments regarding demolitions in Christchurch and which caused such outrage, but I can talk all about them

       our SAS soldiers were not involved in the Kabul Hotel gunfight

       the use of the Vela brother’s helicopter was required so I could attend meetings relating to national/international security concerns

       the DPS makes the decision about accompanying the Prime Minister or not, I had no choice but to take them on holiday to Hawaii

       I did not mislead the House (4)

       oh, maybe our SAS soldiers were in the Kabul hotel gun fight but they weren’t wounded by friendly fire

       New Zealand has lost $12 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . oh, it might actually be around $15 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . Blinglish said what?

       10,000 houses will have to be demolished in Christchurch due to the earthquake

       14,000 new apprentices will start training over the next five years, over and above the number previously forecast

       our amendments to the ETS ensure we will continue to do our fair share internationally

       we are committed to honouring our Kyoto Protocol obligations

       any changes to the ETS will be fiscally neutral

       New Zealand has grown for eight of the last nine quarters”

       National Ltd™ will tender out the government banking contract

       we will be back in surplus by 2014-15

       Nicky Hager’s book “Other People’s Wars” is a work of fiction

       unemployment is starting to fall

       we have created 60,000 jobs

       we have created 45,000 jobs

       the 2011 Budget will create in the order of 170,000 jobs

       I don’t know if I own a vineyard

       no, I did not mislead the House (5)

       the Isreali spy killed in the Christchurch quake had “only one” passport

       the Police will not need to make savings by losing jobs

       first I heard I heard about Kim Dotcom was on 19 January 2012

       first I heard about the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was in September

       I did not mislead the House (6)

       I voted to keep the drinking age at 20

       New Zealand is 100% Pure

       I’ve been prime minister for four years, and it’s really 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year

       baseball in New Zealand is attracting more government support

       the decision to buy brand new BMWs was made by the Department of Internal Affairs without reference either to their minister or to me

       I didn’t have a clue that Ministerial Services, which I am in charge of, was going to buy brand new BMWs

       even though two of my ministers knew all about it, I didn’t have a clue that brand new BMWs were being bought.

       even though my Chief of Staff met with officials to discuss purchase of the the brand new BMWs, I didn’t have a clue

       even though I personally signed papers discussing the matter, I still didn’t have a clue

       Labour forced us into buying the brand new BMWs, its their fault

       ummm, look, sorry about that BMW thing , it was because I was so upset

       I did not describe David Beckam as thick as batshit

       I did not mislead the House (7)

       the public demanded that we change the labour laws for The Hobbit

       “The Hobbit” created 3000 new jobs

       we have delivered 800 extra doctors in the public service

       I did not mislead the House (7)

       I wasn’t working at Elders when the sham foreign exchange deals took place

       I was starting School Certificate exams in 1978

       I don’t know who arrived on the CIA jet to visit the spies I am responsible for

       reducing barriers to property developers will increase the availability of affordable housing

       Labour left the economy in poor shape

       forecasts show unemployment will fall

       we have closed the wage gap with Australia by $27

       Ngati Porou and Whanau Apanui are not opposed to mining

       I have not had any meetings with Media Works

       our [NZ’s] terms of trade remain high

       the TPP is an example of democracy

       National Ltd™ will use the proceeds of state asset sales to invest in other public assets, like schools and hospitals

       New Zealand troops will be out of Afghanistan by April 2013

       overseas investment in New Zealand adds to what New Zealanders can invest on their own

       overseas investment in New Zealand creates jobs, boosts incomes, and helps the economy grow

       National Ltd™ will build 2000 houses over the next two years

       there are only 4 New Zealand SAS soldiers in Bamiyan and all working in the area of logistics and planning only

       selling state assets will give cash equity to those companies

       the Sky City deal will provide 1000 construction jobs and 800 casino jobs

       my office has had no correspondence, no discussions, no involvement with the Sky City deal

       I can’t remember what was discussed at my meeting with the SkyCity Chief Executive on 14 May 2009

       I have no record of the 12 November 2009 email from Treasury advising that the SkyCity deal was dodgy and needed to be referred to the Auditor General

       there was nothing improper about the Sky City deal

       SkyCity will only get “a few more” pokie machines at the margins

       any changes to gambling regulations will be subject to a full public submission process

       Sky City has approached TVNZ about the purchase/use of government-owned land

       I did not mislead the House (8)

       the Auditor General has fully vindicated National over the Sky City deal

       there’s a 50/50 chance the Hobbit is going off shore unless we do something

       David Shearer has signed up for the purchase of shares in Mighty River

       Solid Energy asked the government for a $1 billion capital investment

       fracking has been going safely on in Taranaki for the past 30 years without any issues

       no frontline positions will be lost at DOC

       Iain Rennie came to me and recommended Fletcher for the GCSB job

       I told Cabinet that I knew Ian Fletcher

       I forgot that after I scrapped the shortlist for GCSB job I phoned a life-long friend to tell him to apply for the position

       I told Iain Rennie I would contact Fletcher

       for 30 years, or three decades, I didn’t have any dinners or lunches or breakfasts with Ian Fletcher

       I did not mislead the House (9)

       I have no reason to doubt at this stage that Peter Dunne did not leak the GCSB report

       no, I did not say we would follow the US and Australia into a war against North Korea

       I paid for that lunch and I’ve got the credit card bill to prove it

       I called directory service to get Ian Fletcher’s number

       I did not mislead the house (10)

       I am honest and upfront

       cyber terrorists have attempted to gain access to information about weapons of mass destruction held on New Zealand computers

       the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was an isolated incident

       New Zealand has an arrangement to have asylum seekers processed in Australian detention camps

       the law which says the GCSB cannot spy on New Zealanders is not clear

       the only way net new jobs can be created is by private investors putting their money into businesses in New Zealand

       an increase in the number of people looking for work indicates that confidence is returning to the economy

       the 10 percent of taxpayers in New Zealand who are the top earners pay 76 percent of all net personal tax.

       I did not mislead the House (11)

       the substantial wage growth under Labour was eroded by inflation

       National Ltd™’s 2010 tax changes were fiscally neutral

       I did not mislead the House (12)

       the bulk of New Zealanders earn between $45,000 and $75,000 a year

       Pike River Coal did not put profits and its production ahead of the safety and lives of those 29 workers.

       Radio Live had sought advice from the Electoral Commission about my show just before the election

       it is because of National Ltd™’s policies that the price of fresh fruit and vegetables has dropped.

       the length-of-the-country cycleway will create 4000 jobs.

       police training for next year has not been cancelled

       National Ltd™ has only cut back-office jobs in the health service

       The Crown’s dividend stream from the Meridians, the Mighty Rivers of the world is large and there is no motivation to sell assets; actually we’re about creating assets not selling assets.”

       National believes employment law should treat all parties fairly. It should . . . Protect employees and employers.

       I am not trying to tackle such issues in a “fearful” way ahead of the next election

       Wellington City is dying.

       the GCSB has been prevented from carrying out its functions because of the law governing its functions

       because the opposition is opposed the GCSB law ammendments, parliamentary urgency is required

       the increasing number of cyber intrusions which I can’t detail or discuss prove that the GCSB laws need to be extended to protect prive enterprise

       it was always the intent of the GCSB Act to be able to spy on New Zealanders on behalf of the SIS and police

       National Ltd™ is not explanding the activities of the GCSB with this new law

       National Ltd™ has been working on a number of things with New Zealand First on a number of things one of which has a financial component but I can’t talk about it

       the best way to get growth in the economy is to reduce public debt

       New Zealand mum and dad investors will be our number one priority in the allocation of Mighty River shares

       we won’t let “cowboy” oil exploration companies operate here in New Zealand.

       the food in schools programme is in the 2013 budget

       the meat exports are being held up in China because of technical issues and in relation to the Chinese looking to trace counterfeit meat

       its notoriously difficult to win three elections in a row

       I am deeply concerned about every child in New Zealand who is in poverty

       there is no manufacturing crisis in New Zealand

       the government’s exposure to MediaWorks’ going into receivership is reasonably limited
5. fambo 5

   1 July 2013 at 12:25 pm

   National man talk with forked tongue (apologies to Indigenous Americans and snakes)
6. North 6

   1 July 2013 at 12:37 pm

   Get Brownlee masquerading as Sergeant Schultz. Good enough for an Oscar except that Schultz was generally short on bombast.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10893978
7. Coronial Typer 7

   1 July 2013 at 2:41 pm

   So you’ve got $10 billion to spend.

   How would you transform Auckland better than this?

   Be entrepeneurial. Imagine anything you like.
   • QoT 7.1

     1 July 2013 at 6:38 pm

     Subway system, pedestrian-and-tram-only Queen Street, commuter ferries from downtown to Mission Bay/Takapuna/Te Atatu. Symonds/Hobson/Nelson to form a public transport loop, congestion charge for private commuter vehicles within that zone.

     And free entry to Kelly Tarltons.

     Disclaimer: haven’t been an Aucklander for some years now …
     • karol 7.1.1

       1 July 2013 at 6:58 pm

       I like the car-less Queen Street idea.

       More buses connecting with the trains.

       Just more focus on public transport, and pedestrians before cars, instead of motor traffic being given the main consideration.

       I am pretty sick of having to go all around the houses, and wait at a series of traffic lights, to get to a train station. And busy streets with no crossings near a bus station on the other side of the street.

       And why are there no change machines? I have used them in other countries.

       As Lynn indicates @ 1.3.1 above when I travel on buses it’s hard to always have the right change.

       See the article in the NZ Herald about the whole big note and bus issue. I’ve had a bad reaction from a bus driver when I’ve produced a $20 note. Sometimes it’s all the cash you have.

       At the weekend, waiting for a bus at a transport centre, there was a guy going around all the other people waiting, asking for change for a $20 note. No-one seemed to have spare change of that amount.

       There should be a change machine at every transport centre, even with a working transferable Hop card system.
       • QoT 7.1.1.1

         1 July 2013 at 8:40 pm

         Oooh, transferable fare cards are a definite must. Especially ones which can be topped up en route (trying to find a Snapper top-up place in some parts of Wellington is a nightmare.)
8. Wayne (a different one) 8

   1 July 2013 at 4:24 pm

   “Gazumped” yet again – the left looking totally bewildered..
   • karol 8.1

     1 July 2013 at 5:18 pm

     Actually, John Key’s attempt to spin his dodgy transport package, with it’s yawning gaps, and diversionary claims, is a sign of him being in panic mode because he knows Aucklanders want better public transport.
     • McFlock 8.1.1

       1 July 2013 at 5:24 pm

       To tell the truth, though, I was a bit bewildered – by Wayne’s comment.
       Each to their own reality, I guess…
9. tsmithfield 9

   1 July 2013 at 6:50 pm

   Given the timing of the projects, Key doesn’t have to show the money at all. In fact, if the left believe that they will be in power at that point, maybe the left should be explaining how the projects will be paid for.
   • Murray Olsen 9.1

     1 July 2013 at 11:50 pm

     Thank you for making your double standard explicit. I propose a free Parnell mansion for everyone, within the next year. If the right believe they will be in power during that time, they have to explain how they’re going to pay for it. Ooh, I like this silly game.
     • tsmithfield 9.1.1

       2 July 2013 at 5:33 am

       The fact is there is enough money to pay for the projects over the time span of the projects (unlike the rather silly example you gave). It is just a matter of determining priorities.

       So, would the left pay for the projects by shifting existing money around, or would they borrow more and tax more to pay for the projects. Or would they dump them altogether, or substantially modify them?
       • felix 9.1.1.1

         2 July 2013 at 7:14 am

         So does Key have to say how he’d pay for it or not?
         • tsmithfield 9.1.1.1.1

           2 July 2013 at 7:37 am

           No.
           • felix 9.1.1.1.1.1

             2 July 2013 at 8:01 am

             But Labour does?
             • tsmithfield …

               2 July 2013 at 10:03 am

               The left appear to see the difficulties in funding the projects. By implication, they will have difficulty funding with projects within their own set of priorities. So, if they anticipate being in government at the time of the projects, they should be saying what they will do about them and how they will fund them.

               Anyway, I have already heard Key say, in a general sense, how they will be paid for. Given the projects are projected to start in 2020, it is silly to try and be more specific than that.
               • felix …

                 2 July 2013 at 10:36 am

                 So that’s a “yes” then.

                 National don’t have to say how they’ll fund things, Labour do. Righto.
                 • tsmithfield …

                   2 July 2013 at 12:07 pm

                   Sigh….

                   I would be quite satisfied if the left were to say something like:

                   “given the length of time to the project, and the duration over which they take place, it is unrealistic to put firm numbers to the project at this stage. However, it would be our intention to follow through with the projects which would be funded through a combination of taxes and borrowing.”

                   I heard Key say pretty much exactly that on the radio the other day, and is no more than I would expect from any political party given the time frames being considered.

                   However, if the left are demanding a precise explanation of how the projects are to be funded, then they should show how they would do it, or if they would do it at all. If they can’t do this, then why are they carping on at National?
                   • felix …

                     2 July 2013 at 3:20 pm

                     You said Key doesn’t have to say how he’ll pay for his spending promise.

                     Then you said Labour does have to.

                     Dress it up however you like, facts is facts.
                   • tsmithfield …

                     2 July 2013 at 5:12 pm

                     National has already given an adequate statement about this IMO. They don’t need to say it again. If Labour wants to commit on a similar basis, then fine. However, if they want to demand more of National, they should be prepared to put up themselves first.
10. karol 10

    2 July 2013 at 8:45 am

    Excellent post by Julie Anne Genter just up on The Daily Blog, and on the government’s Auckland transport plan.

    Some points she makes relevant to the discussions above:

    At an expensive luncheon put on by the Chamber of Commerce (held at Sky City, of course) the PM announced that central government would be getting behind most of the transport projects in the Auckland Plan. The vast majority are expensive, and unhelpful, highway projects.

    How any of these projects will be funded has still not been explained, and rail still isn’t the priority. Key and Brownlee are talking about a 2020 start date. Never mind that buses will be over capacity by 2021 without the CRL. National hope to take credit for a popular project, without actually committing any funding to make it happen.

    This is clearly a vote-winning exercise, done to placate the big Auckland business interests who will benefit from the project. Unfortunately, they still haven’t grasped the critical paradigm shift – spending billions on new highway capacity isn’t going to help congestion or reduce transport costs. It will make things worse.

    Today at an Auckland Mayoral Conversation event, Edward Glaeser, a Harvard economist (not known for being left wing or an environmental extremist) made exactly this point. The fundamental law of road congestion is that if you build more highway lanes, people drive more. This incurs all sorts of additional costs, including but not limited to: congestion, forced vehicle ownership, need for parking, high fuel use, associated environmental costs and crashes.

    […]
    Freight only makes up about 7% of vehicles at any given time, and 1% at peak. We have plenty of roads for freight and other commercial vehicles, the issue is commuters.
    What about buses? Don’t they need roads? Obviously buses don’t need extra highway capacity – they need priority on our existing roads. And if we make them reliable and effective, we won’t need as much highway capacity.

    Aucklanders aren’t wedded to their cars – it’s an abusive relationship they have been consigned to by successive decades of car-centric transport policy.
    […]

    John Key and the National Government still do not seem any closer to providing real transport choice, even if they have realised that rail might be popular in Auckland. Their concession is a win for rational transport in the public discourse, but to get the urgent rail investment we need, New Zealanders will almost certainly need to vote in a new government next year. – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/02/national-the-new-champions-of-auckland-rail/#sthash.R5jXRgL0.dpuf

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