Key failure

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1. Afewknowthetruth 1

   5 February 2013 at 10:21 am

   Don’t forget that it’s all Orwellian (war is peace, ignorance is strength, freedom is slavery) so when John Key says he will work to make NZ a place that Kiwis will want to stay in he actually means the opposite. He is a member of the Global Elites Club, who get well rewarded for adhering to the fascist-globalist agenda of the international money-lenders and corporations..

   Much the same for the Labour party, of course, and has been for decades.

   Sadly, most people are so uninformed and so caught up in ideology they cannot see any truth.
   • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 1.1

     5 February 2013 at 10:30 am

     Sadly, most people are so uninformed and so caught up in ideology they cannot see any truth.

     You must be a bugger to play Trivial Pursuits against.
     • Gosman 1.1.1

       5 February 2013 at 10:51 am

       Trivial Pursuit – The paranoia edition
       • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1

         6 February 2013 at 9:29 am

         That’s pretty funny, having played the RPG Paranoia in my youth 🙂
2. happynz 2

   5 February 2013 at 10:34 am

   Not just Aussie. For example, I’m here in the north of Peninsular Malaysia. I know of a lot of Kiwis working in Thailand; everything from adventure tourism to teaching English.

   I’m sure there are thousands of New Zealanders in the UK with no plans to return.

   The point still stands. An awful lot of Kiwis have bailed out.
3. shorts 3

   5 February 2013 at 11:47 am

   Its a risky path to lay all those moving offshore on the Nats – as the trend will continue as long as we remain a low wage and opportunity economy
   • Lanthanide 3.1

     5 February 2013 at 12:12 pm

     The point is the acceleration of the migration.
   • emergency mike 3.2

     5 February 2013 at 12:12 pm

     John Key did stand under a billboard claiming he was going to fix it.
     • shorts 3.2.1

       5 February 2013 at 12:19 pm

       I appreciate that… yet for four years this story hasn’t had any real traction that have shown in polls or preferred leadership stakes or anything like that
       • emergency mike 3.2.1.1

         5 February 2013 at 2:36 pm

         “yet for four years this story hasn’t had any real traction that have shown in polls or preferred leadership stakes or anything like that”

         And which of NAct’s myriad demonstrable failures have?

         Key offered this up in 2008 as an indicator that something was wrong, and that he knew what to do about it. Four years on it’s got worse by 50%. When Shearer points this out, Key responds, hilariously, by calling him a hypocrite. This alone is worth reporting on.

         I guess I’m an old fashioned type who thinks that holding politicians to account for failing to deliver on their campaign promises is worthwhile in itself, aside from it’s PR value.
4. aerobubble 4

   5 February 2013 at 11:49 am

   Benefit numbers fall, possible reasons??? Exodus, suicide rate up, lots of part time work, criminals formerly claiming dole when not eligible??? Well, stats show its not suicide rates, or criminality since Police have not been called in, and its not more work. So we can conclude its exodus, which is strange don’t you think that the MSM isn’t bashing Key over the head with it.

   I suspect its like John Howard changes to kiwi status in OZ, the MSM goes silent and then knights the guy who could have been a people’s champion, our people and all that tosh. Not that Holmes should not have been knighted, but let’s just get this straight, it not for his day job IMHO.

   Kiwis get disenfranchised in OZ, pay taxes to support Australian welfare but not their own, and the silence in the NZ media for over a decade! The Herald has never been a kiwi paper, oh, sure it has kiwi stories, its printed and brought by kiwis, but its not the daily for kiwis, of kiwis, and by kiwis IMHO.

   But then the National party doesn’t even represent National interests, free capital gains means foreigners (or those about to exit in the great exodus) can borrow to the hilt, offshore the profits while gearing their companies to great capital gains (at the expense of productivity and service).
   And the greatest joke is the farmers buy into the policies that harm their own prospects due to drought and down turns, harming the handover of their farms to the next generation.

   Australia made a mistake when it unfairly treated kiwi residents, but its not like kiwis back in NZ don’t have the same characteristics of poorly thought out policy. Key failure, sure, but Clark did do so well either (now you can argue that the right wing MSM was in full smear and distort mode and so she did very very well to stamp her make still, but really, we all still lost).
   • Fortran 4.1

     5 February 2013 at 1:47 pm

     Who signed the NZ Australian Immigration Agreement in 2001 ?

     Yes – I think it is not fair, as the New Zealanders pay taxes like anybody else, and are discriminated against in Social Services. Racial discrimination, but cannot do anything about it.

     Illegal Immigrents do better, so suggest tear up passports etc before entry and go for Asylum.
5. Tiresias 5

   5 February 2013 at 12:10 pm

   When a new supermarket in Blenheim advertised 80 jobs last week it had 1,600 applications from all over the country – that’s 20 applications for every job.

   Mr. Market would say that the salaries offered were obviously too high.

   Nonetheless there is a wider issue. If we as a society say everyone has a ‘right’ to a job we are obliged to provide jobs for everyone even if that means more jobs than society needs – which means exploiting resources that don’t need exploiting and producing items that people don’t need, and/or which only last a year or two in order to keep the factories busy and people employed. Or just getting people to dig holes for other people to fill in.

   Are we not incredibly fortunate to be living in a country with open spaces and room to breath, and beautiful unspoiled places that remain unspoiled because no-one has yet got around to spoiling them? And we’re talking of building hundreds of thousands of new homes on ‘green field’ sites and fighting to stop mining in National Parks despite the hundreds of ‘jobs’ they would employ. Here where I live in the Marlborough Sounds we’ve been fighting for years to stop the proliferation of mussel farms into unspoiled bays and had to take up a whole new fight to stop acres of salmon farms in these clear green waters.

   And the cry of the proponents of these things, along with “foreign exchange” is always “employment”.

   What we want is ‘real’ employment that serves our society. Does a Chinese-owned factory making infant formula for Chinese babies do that? Does a foreign-owned fish farm in the Queen Charlotte Sound sending salmon to US supermarkets do that? Does sitting all day at a bench under flourescent lighting putting together plastic widgets do that?
   • Lanthanide 5.1

     5 February 2013 at 12:16 pm

     “Mr. Market would say that the salaries offered were obviously too high.”

     Of course Mr. Market would be wrong. The real reason is the type of work. There are industries that are finding it very hard to hire people, like offshore fisherman and other physical labour jobs. One annecdote I heard on the radio was a company that had 35 applicants for some forestry jobs, but after they cut out all of the ones that failed the drug test there were only 1-2 left.

     I guess those hard-labour jobs need to be paying a lot more, but even then they probably would still have a hard time finding people, because kiwis just don’t want to do those kinds of work.
     • Tiresias 5.1.1

       5 February 2013 at 12:55 pm

       As I type I can see across the bay a logging gang at work on a hillside – leaving a great and unsightly brown scar behind them, though nature will cure that. Unhappily nature won’t cure the damage their heavy machinery will do to our barely engineered metal roads, nor the lightly sealed ones we residents paid a special rate to have put in, but that’s another matter.

       Monday to Friday these guys are living in temporary accommodation I wouldn’t put a dog in, away from their families if they have one, starting work at 7.00 am and climbing up and down 45% dirt slopes weilding a screaming, vibrating, heavy chain-saw all day long, baking sunshine, wind or rain. Well, they do stop if it’s bucketting down on them as it was yesterday. If you don’t get taken out by a falling tree or a breaking chain or snapping cable you’ve only a few years before your ankles, knees or back gives out leaving you with… what?

       And for why? The trees, planted 20-years ago, have to go now or they’ll become totally unsaleable. No-one actually wants them so they’ll be sold to China for pulp at a price that barely covers the cost of harvesting and shipping them, if that.

       Why should Kiwi’s do this kind of health-sapping, unrewarding, environmentally destructive work? I’m not surprised they can only do it drugged up to the eyeballs. It’s Russian Gulag stuff with week-ends off.

       Do we, as a society, gain anything from this?
       • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1

         5 February 2013 at 2:19 pm

         The trees, planted 20-years ago, have to go now or they’ll become totally unsaleable.

         No they won’t. As trees grow older they become stronger and so they become better building material. What’s happening is that the capitalists want their ROI now and to hell with people being able to build better houses, desks, tables, etc, etc.
         • Tiresias 5.1.1.1.1

           5 February 2013 at 3:13 pm

           “No they won’t.” – Draco

           Yes, they will. These aren’t kauri. They’re radiata pine planted 2 metres apart on a slope approaching 60′ which have never been trimmed or thinned. As timber they’re rubbish not worth milling, but when they were planted in the late 80’s everyone thought newspapers would go on for ever. They aren’t going to grow any more as they’re crowding each other out.

           As for ROI I suspect this plantation, like so many, is valuable only for the tax write-offs which start to run out after 20-years.
           • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1.1.1

             5 February 2013 at 10:14 pm

             http://www.nzwood.co.nz/species/radiata-pine

             APPLICATIONS
             Treated radiata pine is suitable for the following applications:
             structural uses;
             decking,
             fencing;
             exterior cladding;
             window sashes;
             pergolas;
             landscaping;
             shingles;
             barge boards;
             exterior trim.
             Interior uses for untreated timber include:
             furniture;
             mouldings;
             trim;
             panelling.

             I have a few family in the building industry and they noticed the decrease in quality when the wood went from 30 year plantations to 20 year.
       • ropata 5.1.1.2

         5 February 2013 at 2:47 pm

         Why should Kiwi’s do this kind of health-sapping, unrewarding, environmentally destructive work? I’m not surprised they can only do it drugged up to the eyeballs. It’s Russian Gulag stuff with week-ends off.

         Since when does hard work = oppression?
         The loggers I have met have been strong, energetic and positive Maori blokes who take pride in their work.
         As long as their work meets OSH standards and is well rewarded then good on them.
         • Tiresias 5.1.1.2.1

           5 February 2013 at 3:36 pm

           Hard work becomes oppression when there are better things you could be doing with your time. Remember “Arbeit macht frei”?

           I take my hat off to loggers. I couldn’t have done what they do every day even when I was 40-years younger.

           Yeah, these guys are pretty well paid, they’re strong and energetic because they couldn’t do the job if they weren’t, and it’s a skilled job you need to take pride in doing well because if you don’t it will seriously injure or kill you.

           But do you know any middle-aged loggers? I don’t know one over 30. Is there a career-path for logging that starts with a chain-saw in a forest and follows a nice steady, well-remunerated career path to a comfortable desk and well-paid retirement?

           So yeah, over ten, fifteen years you can maybe earn enough to buy a third, even half a house outright if you take care of your money, but what then? What when your knees, ankles or back can’t maintain the necessary pace any more? What when the slope or a root turns your ankle and it never comes fully right again? What when a moment’s inattention or just bad luck takes off a couple of fingers, at best? What has ten, fifteen years logging equipped you for? What kind of job are you going to get to pay the mortgage on the other half of that house you’ve wasted half a working life to buy?

           Sorry, I don’t regard hard manual work as inherently noble. Let machines dig tunnels, not blokes with picks and shovels. Miners have wonderful comradeship and make great choirs, and die crippled with arthritis, heart-disease and silicosis. Risking your life and ruining your health chopping down rubbish trees no-one wants might make you feel good for the moment and put food on the table for the next week but it’s a job with no future and a waste of an opportunity.
       • paul andersen 5.1.1.3

         5 February 2013 at 5:28 pm

         bravo
6. tc 6

   5 February 2013 at 12:24 pm

   It was BS in 08 and it’s even bigger BS now after the decline in standard of living, workers rights etc and no attempt to keep jobs here.

   Labour should’ve made this an issue in the 2011 campaign, so aside from the stern words from DS can he make any impact on this issue up against the slithery one. This will be a test of his oratory/messaging ability…focus DS please dunnokeyo hates the blowtorch at the belly.
   • Afewknowthetruth 6.1

     5 February 2013 at 1:16 pm

     Of course it was BS. Everything in mainstream culture is BS. However, people do LIKE BS and usually vote for more BS..

     Regarding the falling standard of living, the standard of living is falling practically everywhere on this planet, in line will falling energy availability, due to the peak of extraction of oil between 2005 and 2008. One reason NZ has a ‘high’ dollar is because there is a race to the bottom as energy (and other) resources rapidly deplete , and Europe, Japan and the US are way ahead of NZ in the race to the bottom..

     No amount of grizzling will alter geological facts.
     • tc 6.1.1

       5 February 2013 at 2:35 pm

       based on that shall we pencil in the NACT for another few terms then
7. JonL 7

   5 February 2013 at 2:45 pm

   “No they won’t. As trees grow older they become stronger and so they become better building material. What’s happening is that the capitalists want their ROI now and to hell with people being able to build better houses, desks, tables, etc, etc.”

   Quite right. The trees are being harvested so young, I know of several architects who are upsizing housing components, because they don’t believe the timber is strong enough any more, particularly in compressive strength, in piles and stuff. – eg – the standard house pile is 125×125 – they are now speccing 150×150!
   • Tiresias 7.1

     5 February 2013 at 4:48 pm

     “On average, radiata pines grown in New Zealand are harvested at 30 years. The timber has excellent nailing, gluing and painting properties and is also used as a feedstock for the manufacture of paper and industrial packaging materials.” Source – http://www.nzfoa.org.nz

     OK, maybe they’re a bit more than 20-years old. When we moved into this place 18-years-ago the trees weren’t very big as I recall, but maybe 4 -5 years in the ground.

     Well-maintained, thinned and trimmed plantations can produce reasonable framing timber. This is not a well-maintained, thinned trimmed plantation.
8. xtasy 8

   5 February 2013 at 6:55 pm

   But most people just “love” John Key.

   His party still sits at around 46 per cent in the polls, and I believe his support rating is still above 50 per cent also.

   That means, those that left for good may thank him in hindsight, for having shown them the exit door to a much better life overseas, and those that have not left do still (at least in large numbers) like Key, because they would not really have a clue anyway, how much life under his government sucks, simply for lack of ability to compare their lives here with anywhere else, where they never took the courage to go and try living.

   Just another perspective, perhaps.
9. Skinny 9

   5 February 2013 at 7:02 pm

   The issue of mass exodus under National is very much real and in some instances quite unbelievable. Take job cuts in a SOE I know of, skilled workers bailed to OZ after having a guts full of the looming axe. And now that same SOE is advertising & struggling to refill positions ( skills shortage)  that should never have been axed in the first place. Meanwhile the Australian tax payer gets a skilled worker without having to pay the high costs of training, that was done by the Kiwi taxpayer. FFS this is happening all over the country under this clueless bunch.        
10. UpandComer 10

    5 February 2013 at 8:14 pm

    I think a lot of Kiwis, especially Maori, leave because of the dominance of Left wing poverty thinking and culture in this country, where it’s terrible to build a mine or an offshore platform, you can’t build major infrastructure in less the 25 years like Transmission Gully, you can’t apparently do any more farming, you can’t establish new industries (like movies) without some union or other getting mad, 25 year olds think they are owed a free house to go with their interest free student loans and their masters in really awesome degrees like sociology and politics (they all vote Labour), people are sick of the local Taniwha getting peaky, so the local crew has to pay off the bros to get the road built. People laid off in the public sector are victims of Labour party economics, that thinks job growth means buying all the office space in Wellington to fill with policy analysts. You can’t reform local government at all, you can’t eat a pie without feeling guilty. It’s apparently beneath the dignity of kiwis to do a massive range of jobs that are always there and never taken. If you’re wealthy here, no one knows who you are and everyone assumes you’re a crook. Most kiwi’s have never heard of Graham Hart. Maori here with wealth are sick of the cuzzies leaching onto them like they’re owed something. The RMA is killing new industry. People are leaving because the poverty, petty, envious, spiteful, committee, banning Left wing has leeched it’s way into the soil. People go on TV and say because prescriptions prices go up one dollar ‘babies will die’. A finance minister who says instead of moaning and psychoanalysing, we should just go out and compete has 40% of the country froth at the mouth. It’s pathetic. It would be wonderful if New Zealand could be part of Australia, but why would positive, sunny, dynamic Australia that’s about to throw out Gillard the crook want to be associated with a bunch of banning ‘no’s’ and moaners?
    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      5 February 2013 at 8:18 pm

      people are sick of the local Taniwha getting peaky, so the local crew has to pay off the bros to get the road built.

      Which Maori told you that they were sick of respecting their local Taniwha? You do know that a lot of local Maori work in local road crews?

      It would be wonderful if New Zealand could be part of Australia, but why would positive, sunny, dynamic Australia that’s about to throw out Gillard the crook want to be associated with a bunch of banning ‘no’s’ and moaners?

      Australia is sunny indeed. Next century they’re going to be 40 deg C everyday sunny, and we will be an even nicer place to live.
    • Skinny 10.2

      5 February 2013 at 9:32 pm

      Actually U&C the vast number of Kiwi’s leave because they can not get ahead in New Zealand. Low wages, out of control house prices making it near impossible  to get a affordable home in the larger city’s. If your in the 20 to 35 age group you’d be a mug to stay on struggle street here in NZ. The high NZD is slaughtering manufacturing in this Country, because ya mate slugger Bill English is out of his depth as Finance Minister. Half-wits like Wheeler & you think further deregulation is the answer… I shake my head in disgust!…I’m ok Jack doesn’t work for the collective chappy… But then it’s all about you isn’t it Jack!
      • UpandComer 10.2.1

        5 February 2013 at 10:13 pm

        NZ is one of the best performing economies in the world atm, and outside of WA, is performing better then the Aussie’s. Imagine what we could do if we similarly had some activity in the WA lifeblood industries. But that’s off the table, just like anything and everything that will promote job growth that doesn’t involve ‘picking green technology winners’ or anything that requires more neurons then ‘we’re going to build a billion houses, and employ thousands of people whose Value of Marginal Product of Labour is essentially nil to work for the government, when the current number of people, and much less, suffices.
        • Skinny 10.2.1.1

          5 February 2013 at 11:37 pm

          That’s stretching it U&C don’t you think. Commodities like milk power, which incidentally suffered a near fail with the little scare the other week. Mining coal has planked, paper pulp on the slide. Oh thats right Key wants us to be a financial hub to Asia as our big earner. Pretty foolish axing the R & D tax credits, that, coupled with the high dollar has just driven manufacturing to Asian countries where they do the R&D as part of the deal. OEDC stats paint a gloomy picture on social issues is more realistic I would have thought.       
          • Skinny 10.2.1.1.1

            5 February 2013 at 11:52 pm

            *OECD
            • Colonial Viper 10.2.1.1.1.1

              6 February 2013 at 9:26 am

              UpandComer forgot to add that without the $300M per week English is borrowing into our economy, our economy would collapse.
              • Green machine UpandComer …

                6 February 2013 at 12:32 pm

                CV thinks that the party of increasing deficits to infinity, free government jobs for everyone, decoupled personal and everything else tax rates, and government owned everything would of course be borrowing less?

                CV also doesn’t want to look at what the borrowing is for – hand-outs earthquakes and the trinity of middle-class welfare. He’ll say something about taxes, but he will be wrong.
        • geoff 10.2.1.2

          7 February 2013 at 7:08 am

          One of the reasons Australia is doing much better than NZ is that they are better socialists than here. Their industrial awards system means that even low-skill jobs like packing shelves at the supermarket get paid a living wage. If the population doesn’t get paid enough then they can’t buy anything.
    • Murray Olsen 10.3

      5 February 2013 at 9:33 pm

      I think you’re wrong. Next time you read “Atlas Shrugged”, please try to remember that it’s just bad fiction.
    • xtasy 10.4

      5 February 2013 at 9:57 pm

      I sense a “downer” after another, longer absent “comer”.
    • Maggie May 10.5

      6 February 2013 at 10:03 am

      “25 year olds think they are owed a free house to go with their interest free student loans and their masters in really awesome degrees like sociology and politics (they all vote Labour),”

      Now that’s untrue.

      I personally know people who have had their whole University education out of the Public Purse (under Labour) who are avid John Key fans and would not think of voting for any other party than National.
    • Tony 10.6

      7 February 2013 at 6:10 am

      Goodness. You’re remarkably good at sweeping generalisations! You can tell that many National supporters are getting sweaty at the moment – posts like this attacking the left for every possible problem in New Zealand, despite the Nats having been in government for almost five years. To take apart your argument just a tad:

      “where it’s terrible to build a mine or an offshore platform”

      They’ve been prospecting for oil for years and Petrobas just pulled out. What does that say? I personally think oil would be good for the economy, we can’t do without it but we should keep pursuing alternative means as well. So, I vote Labour and I think oil discovery in this country is a good thing – your first point is struck off.

      “you can’t apparently do any more farming”

      Umm… have you seen much of the country?? There are farms everywhere! We have an incredibly intensive farming industry and the head of Federated Farmers (Conor English) has called for Auckland to stop spreading into the pastures (despite his brother Bill calling for the opposite).

      “you can’t establish new industries (like movies) without some union or other getting mad”

      Classic ignorance this one! I did Film Studies at Uni (or Degree in Awesome as you say) and to call film a new industry is wrong first of all and secondly are you suggesting that JK saved this “new industry” by overriding the unions?? Bollocks. He wanted to be a hero so he got in the thick of it – the subsidy he gave was ridiculous for a film that’s earned so much money.

      “25 year olds think they are owed a free house to go with their interest free student loans”

      Aye? Not even sure where you’re coming from? If you mean are young people complaining about the cost of houses compared to income, yes of course they are. You’ve seen the figures, Auckland’s one of the most difficult places to buy a house in terms of affordability – foreigners are snapping up property and investors are too as there’s no capital gains tax. The government won’t invest in housing and they’re blaming the council for not freeing up land (their MO is to develop a better city, not a sprawling city) and building regulations (heard of the leaky home crisis??). None of us are asking for free homes, we just want a fair playing field where investors and foreigners aren’t taking everything – are we not entitled to have a go at building a life for us and our families?

      I could go on but I’ve just realised that replying to your bollocks is wasting my time. To destroy your claims completely though – I left NZ because despite increasing workload and responsibility, my salary was frozen due to “tough times” yet the CEO was given a bonus equivalent to my salary. How does that work free market man? Capitalism is out of control mate, if you can’t realise that then it’s because you don’t want to and you’re doing well out of the system. The other reason I left was that I had no chance of buying a house in Auckland on my stagnant job. In the meantime, I came to “tough” London where I’ve managed to get paid three times as much and work for some of the biggest brands in my industry in the world. The biggest difference I’ve found though, is that the people I’ve worked for over here have been nice and respectful – in New Zealand there was a constant reminder of how lucky you are to do this job, a constant fear of being sacked.

      And to sum up, I think the biggest problem with our beautiful country is people like you. People that aspire to be wealthy like those in Britain, USA and Australia but can’t quite get there, so they try to blame everything and everyone for their failures.
11. xtasy 11

    5 February 2013 at 9:53 pm

    Key’s next excuse will be:

    “Hey, we never failed at all. The people that left NZ for longer only did so, because after our generous tax cuts, they were able to afford an extended overseas holiday. That may be an ordinary holiday or a working holiday, like many Kiwis take, when they go on an OE.

    That is all totally normal, why do you blame us for helping people to have the means to go on extended overseas holidays, that will also help them get international skills, and that will only be to their benefit.

    Hey, even Paula admitted, we can afford to even send a few over on a special WiNZ grant.

    That is how well we do in NZ, we can afford all this. Do not bag us for doing a great job for Kiwis, thanks!”

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