Written By: - Date published: 3:18 pm, February 20th, 2008 - 57 comments
Categories: john key, workers' rights -
Tags: john key, workers' rights
Key’s comment that “we would love to see wages drop” to a group of business-people last year has come under increasing scrutiny in the House today.
Rather than defend his statement himself, Key sat squirming as English attempted to deflect Cullen’s attack – hardly a good look for the leader of the opposition, getting someone else to fight your battles for you.
Cullen pointed out that during the 90s under the Nats average real earnings fell in five out of nine years and that average weekly earnings went from $463 when the Nats came into office to a mere one dollar more, $464 (1990 dollars) when they left. “That’s National’s record on earnings growth”, he said.
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Scoopit!
Because our media are shallow and driven by scandal rather than substantive issues that affect real people.
sod – having seen both sides (I was a union rep when I was young and naive) I can honestly say that unions do nothing for keeping peoples wages up anymore. In fact the opposite occurs now as I am able to negotiate higher wages for staff on on dividual contracts but not unionised staff (who are becoming a rarity) they miss out.
Unions are only a benifit to poor workers and troublemakers these day
Ok Mike – firstly I’m guessing from our previous discussion that you are about the right age to have been in the union in the 90′s? That probably means you experienced them at a time they were getting fucked by exactly the kind of policies Key wants to bring back.
Now. You’re lying if you claim you can negotiate higher rates for people on individuals or else you are breaking the law (it’s called an inducement to leave the union and can get your employer a fine of up to $10k). I should also point out that union collective agreements are minimum rate documents and that that means you can negotiate members anything you like on an individual basis as long as it is above the collective.
So Mike, tell me are you lying or breaking the law or are you just making stuff up to fit your ideological outlook?
Hey slightly – the Owen glen story took days (and hours of National party sophism) to break. Be patient little one…
Very interesting that Key refused to front and neither he nor English denied the quote. Journalists need to start asking some questions, this puts National’s whole tax cut argument on the back foot.
On a complete side-issue, or maybe it isn’t.
Has anyone taken a brief scan at Whale’s site recently. Looks to me like he ingested something (probably illegal) over the last couple of days. I peek there occasionally to see what life is like over the edge.
Lots of barely coherent posts with few comments. Some of them look like Whale’s writing. Looks like he is imploding.
Well, I keep seeing many people asking how John Keys statement for wages to drop was taken out of context. So, how about you read the article.
John Key understands that wage increases must be accompanied by increases in productivity. He said so in his speech. It was clearly there for all to see. He has also said it is his parties policy to increase wages, and the safest. most efficient way for that to happen is to invest in infrastructure and increase productivity.
I do admit, however, the reducing wages statement was a bit stupid, but then he does not have the legion of spin doctors the labour government has on the books. Oops, sorry, communications specialists.
Bart
invest = spend
So where will National spend less?
Bart, how is it you deem left leaning comments as spin, and Key-leaning comments as hard facts! Key also made the comment to a business luncheon way back that voters should have faith in the National Party, vote them in and then they would bring in policies later that appealed to the audience.
It is not spin that motivates those of us that question the Nats: we have had far too much of their cynical selfishness.
Robinsod, poor deluded fool you raise unionism so I’ll give you my take on it. Before I decided to retire last year I was paying performers a shit load more than unionised losers and I frankly couldn’t give a fuck what the Government thought of that. If a unionised employee saw the benefits of quiting his/her union, they of course would be welcomed to the free side of the fence and get the bonuses that follow performance. Needless to say we we were pretty much union free after two years.
I’ve had over 18 months not working and am thinking of getting back into it for the fun of it and bacuse 36 is a bit too young to retire and because I think the political environment will suit me I want to get back into it.
When I do, I will have a policy of not employing unionised pinkos. And any that become so will be sacked. I don’t really give a fuck about the fines you mention, heh, they are less than what it costs to beth my boat for two months at Westhaven, never mind the fuel to keep the generator going. I used to know what it was like being a minimum wage employee, that’s why I have always paid mine who really perform over the margin and have despised paracitic unionists who wouldn’t know a productive day’s work if it was offered.
Whoah, RP, don’t hold back son
That’s right RP – you really are rich and you’re not at all a spotty little creep who threatens to kill other other commenters. You are a deluded psycho mate.
“Now. You’re lying if you claim you can negotiate higher rates for people on individuals or else you are breaking the law (it’s called an inducement to leave the union and can get your employer a fine of up to $10k”
I dear Sod. I’m not lying and not breaking the law. I can give anyone I like a pay rise (just happens the best workers don’t need a crutch) and no one is induced to leave the union. Although for 6 bucks a week all you get is a fat hack in high-vis vest dropping off socialist propaganda once every 3 years its a no brainer really.
Good stuff Mike – and the answer is no. Even if you have a performance based system and are paying out to non-union members but not union members who fulfill the same critera then you are indeed inducing workers to leave the union. That’s called “bad faith” and like I say your employer can face a $10k fine for each instance it happens in.
I’d also point out that the statistics show workers on a collective agreement get, on average, considerably better pay rises than similar workers in workplaces where there is no union in place.
Just keep trying Mike.
mike, RP, you remind me of this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=184NTV2CE_c
“I can honestly say that unions do nothing for keeping peoples wages up anymore” (sic) – This statement is incorrect. Examples in support include the EPMU 5% in ’05 campaign, the SFWU’s campaign increasing wages from a minimum of $11.25 to $14.25 in public hospitals last year, the NZNO getting a huge increase for nurses in 2004, the big increases in aged care brought about by the NZNO and SFWU in 2007, Unite’s campaign abolishing youth rates in all major fast food operators not to mention professional unions like the Police Association, Firefighter’s Union, NZEI, NZAPLA delivering good increases to their members.
In addition, your union fee gives you access to Credit Unions, IRIS superannuation, subsidised health and dental care and so on. These services alone are worth the union fee you pay each week.
Let’s not forget all those things like annual and public holidays, paid parental leave and the Wages Protection Act 1983 that would not exist without unions.
Show us the money (or the link) Sod, I think you’re statistics are made up bullshit.
I also suspect that compositional effect will ruin any confident assertion in either direction.
Capthca; “It misleading”
I couldn’t agree more
“I can honestly say…”
like Key, i doubt you could lie straight in a bed mike
The statistics are available from Victoria University’s Industrial Relations Centre.
Just for a moment’s light relief:
http://xkcd.com/386/
Ouch!
There’s the Aussie report as well, showing unionised workers are paid x% more than non-unionised. The Standard et al commented on it last year I think, I’ll try to find the link.
Hehehe, another xkcd fan.
Want to go halves in the ball-pit? I reckon I could move some cubicle walls, and make a good-un here.
Captcha; Submarine Property
Great mental images…
Want to go halves in the ball-pit? I reckon I could move some cubicle walls, and make a good-un here.
